Author Topic: "Advocating for the obscene hoarding of wealth for a tiny minority."  (Read 12406 times)

Metalcat

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Re: "Advocating for the obscene hoarding of wealth for a tiny minority."
« Reply #50 on: December 19, 2023, 07:26:43 AM »
...
I can't even fathom being upset by someone's choice of cell phone brand. That's deranged.

I have an iphone so you would think I'm part of the "in-crowd" but some people have recently commented about how old my iPhone 8 is  (even including a friend of a friend that has the latest android phone).  Not sure what the oldest iPhone generation that is still "cool" but I'm not going to find out until this one dies completely,

Oh, I get people being snobs about other people's possessions, people like to be judgemental snobs about all sorts of things, but I can't fathom people getting upset with someone over the brand of phone they choose. That's just weird.

If any of my friends got upset with over what brand of anything I chose, aside from blatant ethical issues with some brands, I would be like "babe...you okay?"

farmecologist

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Re: "Advocating for the obscene hoarding of wealth for a tiny minority."
« Reply #51 on: December 19, 2023, 07:31:21 AM »
Phones are status symbols. And nicer phones usually have nicer cameras and better editing tools, which are extremely important for people who are hooked on posting photos and videos on social media. Great socmed photos and videos are today's social currency.

I usually buy the cheapest Android phone that fits my needs (~$150) category. I used to work with a lot of people who had the latest phone models. It was kind of amusing to see who started complaining they were short of cash a few days before payday.

I'm not so sure about the iphone "status" thing.  In my line of work ( tech ), many have android phones that are just as expensive as some of the most expensive iphones....with features to match.  If anything they think their android phone is the status symbol. 

I do agree that android phones have more affordable options on the low end. 

Personally, we all have iPhones.  As the keeper of the "Family fleet" of phones, I find managing iphones to be much easier ( seamless backups, etc... ).   Once set up, it is set it and forget it. 

uniwelder

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Re: "Advocating for the obscene hoarding of wealth for a tiny minority."
« Reply #52 on: December 19, 2023, 07:32:18 AM »
...
I can't even fathom being upset by someone's choice of cell phone brand. That's deranged.

I have an iphone so you would think I'm part of the "in-crowd" but some people have recently commented about how old my iPhone 8 is  (even including a friend of a friend that has the latest android phone).  Not sure what the oldest iPhone generation that is still "cool" but I'm not going to find out until this one dies completely,

My 2016 original iPhone SE is cool, according to some.  Everyone that sees me pull it out of my pocket is like "wow, you conceal that thing so easily! Its so small"

farmecologist

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Re: "Advocating for the obscene hoarding of wealth for a tiny minority."
« Reply #53 on: December 19, 2023, 07:40:32 AM »
...
I can't even fathom being upset by someone's choice of cell phone brand. That's deranged.

I have an iphone so you would think I'm part of the "in-crowd" but some people have recently commented about how old my iPhone 8 is  (even including a friend of a friend that has the latest android phone).  Not sure what the oldest iPhone generation that is still "cool" but I'm not going to find out until this one dies completely,

My 2016 original iPhone SE is cool, according to some.  Everyone that sees me pull it out of my pocket is like "wow, you conceal that thing so easily! Its so small"

When you are due for an upgrade, try an iPhone mini.  They are great small phones.  Around the size of the iPhone SE as well.


neo von retorch

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Re: "Advocating for the obscene hoarding of wealth for a tiny minority."
« Reply #54 on: December 19, 2023, 07:54:11 AM »
When you are due for an upgrade, try an iPhone mini.  They are great small phones.  Around the size of the iPhone SE as well.

The SE and Mini were considered "cool" because it's increasingly difficult to buy "small" phones. Apple discontinued the Mini (and the SE - at least that's the rumor...) so you can mostly only find them in the secondhand market now. (I buy all of my huge flagship Android phones a year or two old from the secondhand market for $200-300, so I recommend this route, even if you don't have huge hands like me.)
« Last Edit: December 19, 2023, 08:09:26 AM by neo von retorch »

uniwelder

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Re: "Advocating for the obscene hoarding of wealth for a tiny minority."
« Reply #55 on: December 19, 2023, 07:59:48 AM »
When you are due for an upgrade, try an iPhone mini.  They are great small phones.  Around the size of the iPhone SE as well.

The SE and Mini were considered "cool" because it's increasingly difficult to buy "small" phones. Apple discontinued the Mini (and the SE) so you can mostly only find them in the secondhand market now. (I buy all of my huge flagship Android phones a year or two old from the secondhand market for $200-300, so I recommend this route, even if you don't have huge hands like me.)

I have used Tracfone for cell service and was just looking at their site. The newest iPhone SE is $190 right now. It might make sense to upgrade sometime soon.

PassMMM

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Re: "Advocating for the obscene hoarding of wealth for a tiny minority."
« Reply #56 on: December 19, 2023, 08:02:34 AM »
I wanted to add a couple of thoughts to what has been a good discussion of this line because I think most of this community has some tilt of morality to it - MMM has always pushed a sort of environmentalism, etc. and I think it's worth challenging:

"Personally, I can’t help seeing the FIRE movement as advocating for the obscene hoarding of wealth for a tiny minority."

1. I think this fails to really consider the alternative. If someone saves a couple mil in 10-15 years and lives off it from 45 on, I'd imagine the alternative is likely working until mid 60s by which point they likely also have accumulated a couple mil to live on. The amount hoarded is likely the same in most alternative worlds for most FIRE people, just one is deferred decades so you can spend more year to year, forcing you to work decades longer.

2. In the same vein, FIRE'd people are literally selling assets month to month to pay for their lives. They are literally doing the opposite of hoarding once FIRE'd. I think this logicially is the same point as 1, but I think the net $ hoarded for FIRE v. work until 65 and retire versions of any person/family are likely to be similar. Maybe certain FIRE cohorts have exponential growth just take over and their stache ends up massive bc it yields so much more than 4% but that would happen to the 65 y.o. worker's savings/401k too.

ChpBstrd

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Re: "Advocating for the obscene hoarding of wealth for a tiny minority."
« Reply #57 on: December 19, 2023, 08:04:55 AM »
I smashed my phone about one month ago. I'm pretty hard on my phone and they typically last about 12-18 months. I bought a $125 Moto G phone (2022) from Amazon. Because I'm hard on my phones, my wife took the lead and got me a better case and a screen protector. All-in, I think I"m around $140.

For the first time in my life I got snarky comments from two separate groups of friends for not buying an I-phone. For context, I think they both identify with higher social status, but are not annoying about it. These two separate friends have the means to enjoy the finer things in life without working themselves to death. I would consider them both wealthy. However, these two separate people genuinely seemed bothered by the fact that I didn't purchase an I-phone. My best guess is that I'm at the age now where an I-phone is the norm. If I'm the only one without an I-phone, then I guess I'm not conforming, which I know can make people upset. My dissertation was on social norms, so I am very familiar with the theoretical concept. However, I guess I never anticipated that there would be an I-phone social norm among my peer groups.

Going back to my previous post of people in their 40's complaining about their financial situation and then blaming other people, I want to say that it's mostly distant friends from high school who spent decades making poor choices. From my perspective, these people look for short-cuts and then are surprised that it didn't work out. Instead of taking ownership, they blame others. It's the President, Government or the Big Banks that are ruining their life. I'm 44 years old and this behavior really seems to be amplified since I hit 40. I don't like to hang out with these types of people, so I don't have any close friends that exhibit this behavior. However, they still exist in my distant social sphere.
Geez, you could impress these folks by being an iPhone poser and getting the SE for $200. Yet there would be something wrong with even playing that game - something involving agreement with the mindset that self esteem is the things you buy and friendship is the things you buy together.

The observation about the people in their 40s who made a series of bad choices and shortcut decisions stands out to me.

This is close to a universal experience because we have so many more choices to make than any cohort of humans in history. Career, housing, education, debt, car, consumption patterns, drugs, exercise, friend groups, dating, marriage, divorce, level of sacrifice for family, food choices, etc. are all things old world peasants didn't have the luxury of worrying  about. The odds of a young person going out into the world and knowing how to optimize all these critical life decisions - it's practically nil.

What's worse is the media highlighting the one-in-a-million people who did run the gauntlet and somehow and allegedly got most things right and/or lucked out. The rest of us get to compare ourselves to them, right after this ad which is intended to convince us to make another bad decision.

You're right, politics is the outlet for all this frustration, but the system itself is an unlikely game for most people to win. Politics is so emotional because we project our anxieties, insecurities, fears, and regrets onto theatrical characters, rather than making cold policy calculations around self-interest and values. A lack of self-accountability is partly to blame for the sorry state of politics, but the other side of that coin is a world full of pitfalls.

We can't ignore the pitfalls either. A teenager who tries a cigarette might condemn themselves to a painful early death, and leave their future family broke. A person in their 20's signing a car loan condemns themselves to a decade of financial insecurity. Eating at restaurants will make you obese and broke. The wrong college major will leave you with five-figure debt and a job waiting tables. The examples go on and on, because much of our culture and economy has the effect of destroying people.

This is not a rant against our freedom of choices, it is an observation that our ideas about individual decision-making and responsibility, plus our ideas about the primacy of making money, have led us to build a world full of traps for each other. This is a place where regret is inevitable, and it is perhaps also inevitable that people will direct their frustrations toward each other.

farmecologist

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Re: "Advocating for the obscene hoarding of wealth for a tiny minority."
« Reply #58 on: December 19, 2023, 08:36:09 AM »
When you are due for an upgrade, try an iPhone mini.  They are great small phones.  Around the size of the iPhone SE as well.

The SE and Mini were considered "cool" because it's increasingly difficult to buy "small" phones. Apple discontinued the Mini (and the SE - at least that's the rumor...) so you can mostly only find them in the secondhand market now. (I buy all of my huge flagship Android phones a year or two old from the secondhand market for $200-300, so I recommend this route, even if you don't have huge hands like me.)

Yep...we buy all of our phones "refurbished"....and never get flagship models.   We also keep them until they are not supported anymore...or start having issues.   Our daughter has an old iPhone SE where the back camera isn't focusing anymore ( she isn't known for treating her phones well ).  We are replacing it soon with a refurb iPhone 11 pro.  I will say that iPhone can take a LOT of abuse with a proper case and screen protector.

Yes, the iPhone mini has unfortunately been discontinued.  My spouse has a refurbished one ( via the apple store ) and it is a great phone!  I heartily recommend the Apple refurbished store.  Yes, you can find them cheaper elsewhere...BUT the phones on the Apple refurbished store are pristine...basically a new phone with full warranty.

« Last Edit: December 19, 2023, 08:37:41 AM by farmecologist »

Psychstache

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Re: "Advocating for the obscene hoarding of wealth for a tiny minority."
« Reply #59 on: December 19, 2023, 09:00:37 AM »

I smashed my phone about one month ago. I'm pretty hard on my phone and they typically last about 12-18 months. I bought a $125 Moto G phone (2022) from Amazon. Because I'm hard on my phones, my wife took the lead and got me a better case and a screen protector. All-in, I think I"m around $140.

For the first time in my life I got snarky comments from two separate groups of friends for not buying an I-phone. For context, I think they both identify with higher social status, but are not annoying about it. These two separate friends have the means to enjoy the finer things in life without working themselves to death. I would consider them both wealthy. However, these two separate people genuinely seemed bothered by the fact that I didn't purchase an I-phone. My best guess is that I'm at the age now where an I-phone is the norm. If I'm the only one without an I-phone, then I guess I'm not conforming, which I know can make people upset. My dissertation was on social norms, so I am very familiar with the theoretical concept. However, I guess I never anticipated that there would be an I-phone social norm among my peer groups.

Going back to my previous post of people in their 40's complaining about their financial situation and then blaming other people, I want to say that it's mostly distant friends from high school who spent decades making poor choices. From my perspective, these people look for short-cuts and then are surprised that it didn't work out. Instead of taking ownership, they blame others. It's the President, Government or the Big Banks that are ruining their life. I'm 44 years old and this behavior really seems to be amplified since I hit 40. I don't like to hang out with these types of people, so I don't have any close friends that exhibit this behavior. However, they still exist in my distant social sphere.

I can't even fathom being upset by someone's choice of cell phone brand. That's deranged.

I have started to run into this more as some younger folks have joined the workforce and made comments. They group up in the "green bubble discrimination" world and it still sticks with them. I couldn't care less, but it is interesting to observe.

Relevant clip of a stand-up comedian when people bring this up (NSFW):

https://youtu.be/HoBA0qNoSgQ?feature=shared

getsorted

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Re: "Advocating for the obscene hoarding of wealth for a tiny minority."
« Reply #60 on: December 19, 2023, 09:10:23 AM »
I dated a guy for a bit who ribbed me repeatedly about having an Android phone. One of many things that just make me think, "This person doesn't have enough to do with their time."

Metalcat

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Re: "Advocating for the obscene hoarding of wealth for a tiny minority."
« Reply #61 on: December 19, 2023, 09:11:55 AM »

I smashed my phone about one month ago. I'm pretty hard on my phone and they typically last about 12-18 months. I bought a $125 Moto G phone (2022) from Amazon. Because I'm hard on my phones, my wife took the lead and got me a better case and a screen protector. All-in, I think I"m around $140.

For the first time in my life I got snarky comments from two separate groups of friends for not buying an I-phone. For context, I think they both identify with higher social status, but are not annoying about it. These two separate friends have the means to enjoy the finer things in life without working themselves to death. I would consider them both wealthy. However, these two separate people genuinely seemed bothered by the fact that I didn't purchase an I-phone. My best guess is that I'm at the age now where an I-phone is the norm. If I'm the only one without an I-phone, then I guess I'm not conforming, which I know can make people upset. My dissertation was on social norms, so I am very familiar with the theoretical concept. However, I guess I never anticipated that there would be an I-phone social norm among my peer groups.

Going back to my previous post of people in their 40's complaining about their financial situation and then blaming other people, I want to say that it's mostly distant friends from high school who spent decades making poor choices. From my perspective, these people look for short-cuts and then are surprised that it didn't work out. Instead of taking ownership, they blame others. It's the President, Government or the Big Banks that are ruining their life. I'm 44 years old and this behavior really seems to be amplified since I hit 40. I don't like to hang out with these types of people, so I don't have any close friends that exhibit this behavior. However, they still exist in my distant social sphere.

I can't even fathom being upset by someone's choice of cell phone brand. That's deranged.

I have started to run into this more as some younger folks have joined the workforce and made comments. They group up in the "green bubble discrimination" world and it still sticks with them. I couldn't care less, but it is interesting to observe.

Relevant clip of a stand-up comedian when people bring this up (NSFW):

https://youtu.be/HoBA0qNoSgQ?feature=shared

Again, I understand snobbery, that's pretty normal, but getting upset with someone for their brand choice is what makes no sense to me.

I'm a snob about socks, I think people wearing cheap socks are missing out on the joys of merino wool socks (although I'm aware some people can't tolerate wool), so when people think I'm weird for buying $30 socks, I think they're weird for *not* buying $30 socks.

But I would never be upset with someone for not buying the socks that I prefer. Like, I might go on and on about how great my Ice Breaker socks are and insist that they should try them, but if they're like "fuck that, I'm getting my socks at Costco in a pack of 6 like a normal fucking person" I'm not going to be mad at them. That would just be weird, and it's already weird enough for me to be ranting at people about the value of my socks.

Metalcat

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Re: "Advocating for the obscene hoarding of wealth for a tiny minority."
« Reply #62 on: December 19, 2023, 09:13:17 AM »
I dated a guy for a bit who ribbed me repeatedly about having an Android phone. One of many things that just make me think, "This person doesn't have enough to do with their time."

Also "this person has no real sense of who they are as a human being."

GuitarStv

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Re: "Advocating for the obscene hoarding of wealth for a tiny minority."
« Reply #63 on: December 19, 2023, 09:28:56 AM »
Man, you think it's hard not having an iPhone?  You should see the looks you get when you tell people that you've never had a cellphone . . . because they're completely unnecessary.

Tass

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Re: "Advocating for the obscene hoarding of wealth for a tiny minority."
« Reply #64 on: December 19, 2023, 09:46:09 AM »
Interestingly, I have an extra small and obviously not flagship phone (Unihertz), and I tend to get only interested and admiring comments (though still annoyingly repetitive, eventually). I think it's so obviously countercultural that it breaks people out of "my brand > your brand" frameworks. But I also mostly don't socialize with wealthy or "keep up with the Jones's" type people, so it could be that too.

@Metalcat, my husband switched to merino wool socks and it was because I've heard you sing their praises that I didn't blink at the price tag.

Psychstache

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Re: "Advocating for the obscene hoarding of wealth for a tiny minority."
« Reply #65 on: December 19, 2023, 10:23:04 AM »

Again, I understand snobbery, that's pretty normal, but getting upset with someone for their brand choice is what makes no sense to me.

I'm a snob about socks, I think people wearing cheap socks are missing out on the joys of merino wool socks (although I'm aware some people can't tolerate wool), so when people think I'm weird for buying $30 socks, I think they're weird for *not* buying $30 socks.

But I would never be upset with someone for not buying the socks that I prefer. Like, I might go on and on about how great my Ice Breaker socks are and insist that they should try them, but if they're like "fuck that, I'm getting my socks at Costco in a pack of 6 like a normal fucking person" I'm not going to be mad at them. That would just be weird, and it's already weird enough for me to be ranting at people about the value of my socks.

But the choice is making my life so much harder, with their green bubbles and their low quality text pictures and requests to use Whatsapp for group chats. Who would do that to a friend? /s

Psychstache

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Re: "Advocating for the obscene hoarding of wealth for a tiny minority."
« Reply #66 on: December 19, 2023, 10:28:54 AM »
I dated a guy for a bit who ribbed me repeatedly about having an Android phone. One of many things that just make me think, "This person doesn't have enough to do with their time."

One of DW's friends married a guy who, after he found out we did not have cable TV, would bring it up every single time we hung out with them. For years. EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. He would find a way to segue the conversation so that he could bring it up. It went from weird to amusing (how will Roger find a way to bring up cable TV this time) to just kind of sad.

roomtempmayo

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Re: "Advocating for the obscene hoarding of wealth for a tiny minority."
« Reply #67 on: December 19, 2023, 11:27:22 AM »
...
...
This is not a rant against our freedom of choices, it is an observation that our ideas about individual decision-making and responsibility, plus our ideas about the primacy of making money, have led us to build a world full of traps for each other. This is a place where regret is inevitable, and it is perhaps also inevitable that people will direct their frustrations toward each other.

This is a really great summation of why so many people seem so frustrated.

getsorted

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Re: "Advocating for the obscene hoarding of wealth for a tiny minority."
« Reply #68 on: December 19, 2023, 01:08:37 PM »
Also "this person has no real sense of who they are as a human being."

This guy was a trip to go out with. I'm pretty sure if you look up "Peter Pan" in a dictionary, it's his picture. There was an almost touching childlikeness about him. He talked about phones the way an 11-year-old in the 90s talked about Pokemon cards.

One of DW's friends married a guy who, after he found out we did not have cable TV, would bring it up every single time we hung out with them. For years. EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. He would find a way to segue the conversation so that he could bring it up. It went from weird to amusing (how will Roger find a way to bring up cable TV this time) to just kind of sad.

I feel like there's a certain type of salesperson who have only one way of relating, and that's to take one particular characteristic of you and make it your whole personality.

TheGrimSqueaker

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Re: "Advocating for the obscene hoarding of wealth for a tiny minority."
« Reply #69 on: December 19, 2023, 01:58:28 PM »
I can't even fathom being upset by someone's choice of cell phone brand. That's deranged.

It pretty much wins the prize for "something that isn't about me, isn't directed at me, doesn't affect me, and isn't hurting me or anyone else, that still inspires me to bunch up my own underwear."

Metalcat

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Re: "Advocating for the obscene hoarding of wealth for a tiny minority."
« Reply #70 on: December 19, 2023, 03:50:53 PM »
I can't even fathom being upset by someone's choice of cell phone brand. That's deranged.

It pretty much wins the prize for "something that isn't about me, isn't directed at me, doesn't affect me, and isn't hurting me or anyone else, that still inspires me to bunch up my own underwear."

So bizarre.

Just Joe

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Re: "Advocating for the obscene hoarding of wealth for a tiny minority."
« Reply #71 on: December 20, 2023, 08:30:45 PM »
I dated a guy for a bit who ribbed me repeatedly about having an Android phone. One of many things that just make me think, "This person doesn't have enough to do with their time."

One of DW's friends married a guy who, after he found out we did not have cable TV, would bring it up every single time we hung out with them. For years. EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. He would find a way to segue the conversation so that he could bring it up. It went from weird to amusing (how will Roger find a way to bring up cable TV this time) to just kind of sad.

Maybe they can't get enough commercials in their life. Someone DW and I know seems to really zero in on advertising (commercials) when we have watched TV with them. Like they have been trained to pause whatever they are doing to see what the ads have to say. We've explained how streaming works - no ads is the important part - and I think they resist changing b/c they want the ads. 

Turtle

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Re: "Advocating for the obscene hoarding of wealth for a tiny minority."
« Reply #72 on: December 21, 2023, 12:44:23 PM »

I smashed my phone about one month ago. I'm pretty hard on my phone and they typically last about 12-18 months. I bought a $125 Moto G phone (2022) from Amazon. Because I'm hard on my phones, my wife took the lead and got me a better case and a screen protector. All-in, I think I"m around $140.

For the first time in my life I got snarky comments from two separate groups of friends for not buying an I-phone. For context, I think they both identify with higher social status, but are not annoying about it. These two separate friends have the means to enjoy the finer things in life without working themselves to death. I would consider them both wealthy. However, these two separate people genuinely seemed bothered by the fact that I didn't purchase an I-phone. My best guess is that I'm at the age now where an I-phone is the norm. If I'm the only one without an I-phone, then I guess I'm not conforming, which I know can make people upset. My dissertation was on social norms, so I am very familiar with the theoretical concept. However, I guess I never anticipated that there would be an I-phone social norm among my peer groups.

Going back to my previous post of people in their 40's complaining about their financial situation and then blaming other people, I want to say that it's mostly distant friends from high school who spent decades making poor choices. From my perspective, these people look for short-cuts and then are surprised that it didn't work out. Instead of taking ownership, they blame others. It's the President, Government or the Big Banks that are ruining their life. I'm 44 years old and this behavior really seems to be amplified since I hit 40. I don't like to hang out with these types of people, so I don't have any close friends that exhibit this behavior. However, they still exist in my distant social sphere.

I can't even fathom being upset by someone's choice of cell phone brand. That's deranged.

I have started to run into this more as some younger folks have joined the workforce and made comments. They group up in the "green bubble discrimination" world and it still sticks with them. I couldn't care less, but it is interesting to observe.

Relevant clip of a stand-up comedian when people bring this up (NSFW):

https://youtu.be/HoBA0qNoSgQ?feature=shared

Again, I understand snobbery, that's pretty normal, but getting upset with someone for their brand choice is what makes no sense to me.

I'm a snob about socks, I think people wearing cheap socks are missing out on the joys of merino wool socks (although I'm aware some people can't tolerate wool), so when people think I'm weird for buying $30 socks, I think they're weird for *not* buying $30 socks.

But I would never be upset with someone for not buying the socks that I prefer. Like, I might go on and on about how great my Ice Breaker socks are and insist that they should try them, but if they're like "fuck that, I'm getting my socks at Costco in a pack of 6 like a normal fucking person" I'm not going to be mad at them. That would just be weird, and it's already weird enough for me to be ranting at people about the value of my socks.

My local Costco carries multi packs of wool socks in the wintertime.  Very much worth it.  Haven't ever tried Ice Breaker specifically, but agree that wool is superior to cotton for winter socks even in moderate climates.  I can't imagine doing a Canadian winter without wool socks.

Turtle

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Re: "Advocating for the obscene hoarding of wealth for a tiny minority."
« Reply #73 on: December 21, 2023, 01:08:01 PM »
"Personally, I can’t help seeing the FIRE movement as advocating for the obscene hoarding of wealth for a tiny minority."

This point is nonsensical.  What does the author think that people who keep working are doing with their continued income?  Giving it all away? 

So now saving a chunk of one's income and investing it instead of spending it is called "hoarding"?

People who constantly live paycheck to paycheck and have never been exposed to any other way of thinking don't seem to understand, or to want to understand, that they could  save their own nest egg.

One million still sounds enormous and obscene to someone who lives paycheck to paycheck and has negative net worth, but the reality is that "obscene" amounts of wealth starts at at least 10 times that much nowadays.

For example, for anyone old enough to have grown up on Gilligan's Island reruns - to have the same purchasing power as the millionaire couple on that show, one would have to have 10,034,346 assuming they had an even million the year of the pilot.  (1963. Used an online inflation calculator.)

But the average college student starts with a negative net worth these days, so a million sounds like a pipedream.

GuitarStv

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Re: "Advocating for the obscene hoarding of wealth for a tiny minority."
« Reply #74 on: December 21, 2023, 01:09:58 PM »

I smashed my phone about one month ago. I'm pretty hard on my phone and they typically last about 12-18 months. I bought a $125 Moto G phone (2022) from Amazon. Because I'm hard on my phones, my wife took the lead and got me a better case and a screen protector. All-in, I think I"m around $140.

For the first time in my life I got snarky comments from two separate groups of friends for not buying an I-phone. For context, I think they both identify with higher social status, but are not annoying about it. These two separate friends have the means to enjoy the finer things in life without working themselves to death. I would consider them both wealthy. However, these two separate people genuinely seemed bothered by the fact that I didn't purchase an I-phone. My best guess is that I'm at the age now where an I-phone is the norm. If I'm the only one without an I-phone, then I guess I'm not conforming, which I know can make people upset. My dissertation was on social norms, so I am very familiar with the theoretical concept. However, I guess I never anticipated that there would be an I-phone social norm among my peer groups.

Going back to my previous post of people in their 40's complaining about their financial situation and then blaming other people, I want to say that it's mostly distant friends from high school who spent decades making poor choices. From my perspective, these people look for short-cuts and then are surprised that it didn't work out. Instead of taking ownership, they blame others. It's the President, Government or the Big Banks that are ruining their life. I'm 44 years old and this behavior really seems to be amplified since I hit 40. I don't like to hang out with these types of people, so I don't have any close friends that exhibit this behavior. However, they still exist in my distant social sphere.

I can't even fathom being upset by someone's choice of cell phone brand. That's deranged.

I have started to run into this more as some younger folks have joined the workforce and made comments. They group up in the "green bubble discrimination" world and it still sticks with them. I couldn't care less, but it is interesting to observe.

Relevant clip of a stand-up comedian when people bring this up (NSFW):

https://youtu.be/HoBA0qNoSgQ?feature=shared

Again, I understand snobbery, that's pretty normal, but getting upset with someone for their brand choice is what makes no sense to me.

I'm a snob about socks, I think people wearing cheap socks are missing out on the joys of merino wool socks (although I'm aware some people can't tolerate wool), so when people think I'm weird for buying $30 socks, I think they're weird for *not* buying $30 socks.

But I would never be upset with someone for not buying the socks that I prefer. Like, I might go on and on about how great my Ice Breaker socks are and insist that they should try them, but if they're like "fuck that, I'm getting my socks at Costco in a pack of 6 like a normal fucking person" I'm not going to be mad at them. That would just be weird, and it's already weird enough for me to be ranting at people about the value of my socks.

My local Costco carries multi packs of wool socks in the wintertime.  Very much worth it.  Haven't ever tried Ice Breaker specifically, but agree that wool is superior to cotton for winter socks even in moderate climates.  I can't imagine doing a Canadian winter without wool socks.

Nothing wrong with cotton socks if you've got the right boots.  When living up North I had a pair of old Sorells that kept my feet warm below -40 with regular cotton socks.  Unfortunately I hear that the quality of Sorell has taken a nosedive in more recent years.

clarkfan1979

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Re: "Advocating for the obscene hoarding of wealth for a tiny minority."
« Reply #75 on: December 24, 2023, 06:01:23 AM »

I smashed my phone about one month ago. I'm pretty hard on my phone and they typically last about 12-18 months. I bought a $125 Moto G phone (2022) from Amazon. Because I'm hard on my phones, my wife took the lead and got me a better case and a screen protector. All-in, I think I"m around $140.

For the first time in my life I got snarky comments from two separate groups of friends for not buying an I-phone. For context, I think they both identify with higher social status, but are not annoying about it. These two separate friends have the means to enjoy the finer things in life without working themselves to death. I would consider them both wealthy. However, these two separate people genuinely seemed bothered by the fact that I didn't purchase an I-phone. My best guess is that I'm at the age now where an I-phone is the norm. If I'm the only one without an I-phone, then I guess I'm not conforming, which I know can make people upset. My dissertation was on social norms, so I am very familiar with the theoretical concept. However, I guess I never anticipated that there would be an I-phone social norm among my peer groups.

Going back to my previous post of people in their 40's complaining about their financial situation and then blaming other people, I want to say that it's mostly distant friends from high school who spent decades making poor choices. From my perspective, these people look for short-cuts and then are surprised that it didn't work out. Instead of taking ownership, they blame others. It's the President, Government or the Big Banks that are ruining their life. I'm 44 years old and this behavior really seems to be amplified since I hit 40. I don't like to hang out with these types of people, so I don't have any close friends that exhibit this behavior. However, they still exist in my distant social sphere.

I can't even fathom being upset by someone's choice of cell phone brand. That's deranged.

I have started to run into this more as some younger folks have joined the workforce and made comments. They group up in the "green bubble discrimination" world and it still sticks with them. I couldn't care less, but it is interesting to observe.

Relevant clip of a stand-up comedian when people bring this up (NSFW):

https://youtu.be/HoBA0qNoSgQ?feature=shared

Again, I understand snobbery, that's pretty normal, but getting upset with someone for their brand choice is what makes no sense to me.

I'm a snob about socks, I think people wearing cheap socks are missing out on the joys of merino wool socks (although I'm aware some people can't tolerate wool), so when people think I'm weird for buying $30 socks, I think they're weird for *not* buying $30 socks.

But I would never be upset with someone for not buying the socks that I prefer. Like, I might go on and on about how great my Ice Breaker socks are and insist that they should try them, but if they're like "fuck that, I'm getting my socks at Costco in a pack of 6 like a normal fucking person" I'm not going to be mad at them. That would just be weird, and it's already weird enough for me to be ranting at people about the value of my socks.

My local Costco carries multi packs of wool socks in the wintertime.  Very much worth it.  Haven't ever tried Ice Breaker specifically, but agree that wool is superior to cotton for winter socks even in moderate climates.  I can't imagine doing a Canadian winter without wool socks.

Nothing wrong with cotton socks if you've got the right boots.  When living up North I had a pair of old Sorells that kept my feet warm below -40 with regular cotton socks.  Unfortunately I hear that the quality of Sorell has taken a nosedive in more recent years.

When it comes to snug fitting snowboarding boots, thin cotton socks work great. The big puffy wool socks not so much.

Metalcat

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Re: "Advocating for the obscene hoarding of wealth for a tiny minority."
« Reply #76 on: December 24, 2023, 06:09:27 AM »

When it comes to snug fitting snowboarding boots, thin cotton socks work great. The big puffy wool socks not so much.

None of my Icebreaker merino wool socks are puffy.

clarkfan1979

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Re: "Advocating for the obscene hoarding of wealth for a tiny minority."
« Reply #77 on: December 24, 2023, 06:34:47 AM »
I smashed my phone about one month ago. I'm pretty hard on my phone and they typically last about 12-18 months. I bought a $125 Moto G phone (2022) from Amazon. Because I'm hard on my phones, my wife took the lead and got me a better case and a screen protector. All-in, I think I"m around $140.

For the first time in my life I got snarky comments from two separate groups of friends for not buying an I-phone. For context, I think they both identify with higher social status, but are not annoying about it. These two separate friends have the means to enjoy the finer things in life without working themselves to death. I would consider them both wealthy. However, these two separate people genuinely seemed bothered by the fact that I didn't purchase an I-phone. My best guess is that I'm at the age now where an I-phone is the norm. If I'm the only one without an I-phone, then I guess I'm not conforming, which I know can make people upset. My dissertation was on social norms, so I am very familiar with the theoretical concept. However, I guess I never anticipated that there would be an I-phone social norm among my peer groups.

Going back to my previous post of people in their 40's complaining about their financial situation and then blaming other people, I want to say that it's mostly distant friends from high school who spent decades making poor choices. From my perspective, these people look for short-cuts and then are surprised that it didn't work out. Instead of taking ownership, they blame others. It's the President, Government or the Big Banks that are ruining their life. I'm 44 years old and this behavior really seems to be amplified since I hit 40. I don't like to hang out with these types of people, so I don't have any close friends that exhibit this behavior. However, they still exist in my distant social sphere.
Geez, you could impress these folks by being an iPhone poser and getting the SE for $200. Yet there would be something wrong with even playing that game - something involving agreement with the mindset that self esteem is the things you buy and friendship is the things you buy together.

The observation about the people in their 40s who made a series of bad choices and shortcut decisions stands out to me.

This is close to a universal experience because we have so many more choices to make than any cohort of humans in history. Career, housing, education, debt, car, consumption patterns, drugs, exercise, friend groups, dating, marriage, divorce, level of sacrifice for family, food choices, etc. are all things old world peasants didn't have the luxury of worrying  about. The odds of a young person going out into the world and knowing how to optimize all these critical life decisions - it's practically nil.

What's worse is the media highlighting the one-in-a-million people who did run the gauntlet and somehow and allegedly got most things right and/or lucked out. The rest of us get to compare ourselves to them, right after this ad which is intended to convince us to make another bad decision.

You're right, politics is the outlet for all this frustration, but the system itself is an unlikely game for most people to win. Politics is so emotional because we project our anxieties, insecurities, fears, and regrets onto theatrical characters, rather than making cold policy calculations around self-interest and values. A lack of self-accountability is partly to blame for the sorry state of politics, but the other side of that coin is a world full of pitfalls.

We can't ignore the pitfalls either. A teenager who tries a cigarette might condemn themselves to a painful early death, and leave their future family broke. A person in their 20's signing a car loan condemns themselves to a decade of financial insecurity. Eating at restaurants will make you obese and broke. The wrong college major will leave you with five-figure debt and a job waiting tables. The examples go on and on, because much of our culture and economy has the effect of destroying people.

This is not a rant against our freedom of choices, it is an observation that our ideas about individual decision-making and responsibility, plus our ideas about the primacy of making money, have led us to build a world full of traps for each other. This is a place where regret is inevitable, and it is perhaps also inevitable that people will direct their frustrations toward each other.

Thank you for the bolded paragraph above that you wrote. It was really good.

When I teach college I tell my students that each day they are one decision away from making their lives better. One good decision leads to an opportunity for another good decision. It never really occurred to me that our abundance of choices is a relatively new phenomenon. It's very possible that students are getting messages of scarcity and lack of choices from their older parents and grandparents who had less choices growing up.

Over the years, I have become fascinated that two people can be the same age, same job, same W-2, but yet their lives are very different. One person is 50 pounds overweight, stressed out and living paycheck to paycheck. The other doesn't worry about paying bills. They focus their time on their relationships, hobbies and the pursuit of happiness. 
« Last Edit: December 24, 2023, 06:37:22 AM by clarkfan1979 »

Psychstache

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Re: "Advocating for the obscene hoarding of wealth for a tiny minority."
« Reply #78 on: December 24, 2023, 08:15:46 AM »
I dated a guy for a bit who ribbed me repeatedly about having an Android phone. One of many things that just make me think, "This person doesn't have enough to do with their time."

One of DW's friends married a guy who, after he found out we did not have cable TV, would bring it up every single time we hung out with them. For years. EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. He would find a way to segue the conversation so that he could bring it up. It went from weird to amusing (how will Roger find a way to bring up cable TV this time) to just kind of sad.

Maybe they can't get enough commercials in their life. Someone DW and I know seems to really zero in on advertising (commercials) when we have watched TV with them. Like they have been trained to pause whatever they are doing to see what the ads have to say. We've explained how streaming works - no ads is the important part - and I think they resist changing b/c they want the ads.

Nah, he's just addicted to sports so he has to have the super premium packages to make sure that he theoretically watch any sportsball game he wants no matter what. Because what is the point of life if you can't watch the Eastern South Dakota State vs. Chatanooga Technical College football?
« Last Edit: December 26, 2023, 03:42:02 PM by Psychstache »

Just Joe

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Re: "Advocating for the obscene hoarding of wealth for a tiny minority."
« Reply #79 on: December 25, 2023, 05:06:52 PM »
Eastern South Dakota State vs. Chatanooga Technical College football?

Living the dream! What better way to spend a weekend afternoon that to watch 4-5 hours of sports TV? ;)

(I can't sit still that long)

Decibel

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Re: "Advocating for the obscene hoarding of wealth for a tiny minority."
« Reply #80 on: December 29, 2023, 02:38:53 AM »
I have never had cable TV, I don't own an Iphone and I don't have a $1000 a month car payment - woe is me , just take me out the back and shoot me.

I have so much more to do with my life than sit at home watching the Kardashins waste oxygen on my 100" big screen TV. I buy a new phone outright when my current phone dies (around every 7 years), but would not get a fruit device if you paid me,  and I bought my car used with cash.....but sorry I am definitely not hoarding an obscene amount of wealth. My mantra has always been, if you cannot pay cash for it, you cannot afford it (house mortgage aside,which is long gone)

People spend too much time prioritising on FOMO, when they should be prioritising on family first - oh well, their loss.

Metalcat

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Re: "Advocating for the obscene hoarding of wealth for a tiny minority."
« Reply #81 on: December 29, 2023, 06:28:20 AM »
I have never had cable TV, I don't own an Iphone and I don't have a $1000 a month car payment - woe is me , just take me out the back and shoot me.

I have so much more to do with my life than sit at home watching the Kardashins waste oxygen on my 100" big screen TV. I buy a new phone outright when my current phone dies (around every 7 years), but would not get a fruit device if you paid me,  and I bought my car used with cash.....but sorry I am definitely not hoarding an obscene amount of wealth. My mantra has always been, if you cannot pay cash for it, you cannot afford it (house mortgage aside,which is long gone)

People spend too much time prioritising on FOMO, when they should be prioritising on family first - oh well, their loss.

Another take on this is that people don't spend enough time and energy prioritizing FOMO, they just don't realize what life experiences matter most that they're missing out on by focusing on consumption.

It's pretty well researched that later in life, what matters most to people is relationships. People *should* be afraid of missing out on those, they should have FOMO if they aren't investing enough quality time in deep, loving bonds with friends and family.

They're just fearing about missing out on the wrong things.

clarkfan1979

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Re: "Advocating for the obscene hoarding of wealth for a tiny minority."
« Reply #82 on: December 29, 2023, 03:12:05 PM »
https://nypost.com/2023/12/28/lifestyle/android-users-less-attractive-than-iphone-owners-women-say/


I think the verbiage of the title is interesting. Android people are users, but I-phone people are owners. I'm willing to bet my mortgage that a higher percentage of Android people own their phone and a higher percentage of I-phone people are making payments.

Metalcat

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Re: "Advocating for the obscene hoarding of wealth for a tiny minority."
« Reply #83 on: December 29, 2023, 03:15:11 PM »
https://nypost.com/2023/12/28/lifestyle/android-users-less-attractive-than-iphone-owners-women-say/


I think the verbiage of the title is interesting. Android people are users, but I-phone people are owners. I'm willing to bet my mortgage that a higher percentage of Android people own their phone and a higher percentage of I-phone people are making payments.

Seems like a super convenient way to weed out shitty potential partners.

spartana

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Re: "Advocating for the obscene hoarding of wealth for a tiny minority."
« Reply #84 on: December 29, 2023, 11:39:18 PM »
I have never had cable TV, I don't own an Iphone and I don't have a $1000 a month car payment - woe is me , just take me out the back and shoot me.

I have so much more to do with my life than sit at home watching the Kardashins waste oxygen on my 100" big screen TV. I buy a new phone outright when my current phone dies (around every 7 years), but would not get a fruit device if you paid me,  and I bought my car used with cash.....but sorry I am definitely not hoarding an obscene amount of wealth. My mantra has always been, if you cannot pay cash for it, you cannot afford it (house mortgage aside,which is long gone)

People spend too much time prioritising on FOMO, when they should be prioritising on family first - oh well, their loss.
Well you are just the worst hoarder of wealth ever! I mean you should be buying stuff and things instead of stashing/hoarding your money in banks and investments and earning even MORE money that will go unspent! Disgusting Obscene wealth indeed!

Ok just kidding. I'm basicly you except with an android fruit phone (the HORROR!). Even worse... It's a cheap Tracfone pay-as-you-go phone I bought for under $50 and that included a year of service and 1500 min each of talk, text and data. It's my only internet source (no computer or laptop or home internet) and I only recently bought a car after 4 years carless and a new TV (antenna only of course). I'm hoarding my wealth to obscene levels so I can do all the fun stuff and couldn't be happier.

dang1

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Re: "Advocating for the obscene hoarding of wealth for a tiny minority."
« Reply #85 on: January 02, 2024, 06:15:18 PM »
I really like my galaxy s9+ , it's still working out good for me, 46 gb last month. Not getting a newer phone.

lifeisshort123

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Re: "Advocating for the obscene hoarding of wealth for a tiny minority."
« Reply #86 on: January 02, 2024, 09:10:24 PM »
I have considered dropping internet at home, but am not ready yet to pull the plug... if our bills keep going up, might have to soon.

crocheted_stache

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Re: "Advocating for the obscene hoarding of wealth for a tiny minority."
« Reply #87 on: January 02, 2024, 10:47:42 PM »
My 20-something (recent grad) coworker remains thoroughly scandalized that I have an Android, even though he's perfectly content not owning a car. I get the impression he's loading up his 401(k), too, so it's not a case of him being off track. If he loves his iPhone, good for him.

Next time he fidgets about it, I'm definitely poking back, though. Why does my choice of phone bother him so much?

Metalcat

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Re: "Advocating for the obscene hoarding of wealth for a tiny minority."
« Reply #88 on: January 03, 2024, 05:16:41 AM »
My 20-something (recent grad) coworker remains thoroughly scandalized that I have an Android, even though he's perfectly content not owning a car. I get the impression he's loading up his 401(k), too, so it's not a case of him being off track. If he loves his iPhone, good for him.

Next time he fidgets about it, I'm definitely poking back, though. Why does my choice of phone bother him so much?

I'm fascinated by this, I keep hearing stories of IRL people who get bent out of shape by others not using iPhones. Where is this absolute nonsense coming from?

eyesonthehorizon

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Re: "Advocating for the obscene hoarding of wealth for a tiny minority."
« Reply #89 on: January 03, 2024, 06:14:21 AM »
My 20-something (recent grad) coworker remains thoroughly scandalized that I have an Android, even though he's perfectly content not owning a car. I get the impression he's loading up his 401(k), too, so it's not a case of him being off track. If he loves his iPhone, good for him.

Next time he fidgets about it, I'm definitely poking back, though. Why does my choice of phone bother him so much?

I'm fascinated by this, I keep hearing stories of IRL people who get bent out of shape by others not using iPhones. Where is this absolute nonsense coming from?
I had never heard of phone shaming in person until the last few months on this board, although I was accustomed to judgement the other direction by tech people online mostly in terms of insufficient value for money or objection to the walled garden with Apple (valid opinions, though sometimes delivered with excessive prescription or not enough eye to the needs & abilities of a given user.)

But it’s clearly happening widely, there are so many reports. Was there some media moment which made this suddenly seem like a normal thing to care about - I have definitely noticed people get ideas about what you can bully people for from entertainment media - or is this the natural outcome of fewer people having cars, which have heretofore been the portable markers of personal affluence across most of the US? Growing up in the South it wasn’t exactly uncommon for people to have trucks which overshadowed the cost of their house

Metalcat

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Re: "Advocating for the obscene hoarding of wealth for a tiny minority."
« Reply #90 on: January 03, 2024, 06:19:19 AM »
My 20-something (recent grad) coworker remains thoroughly scandalized that I have an Android, even though he's perfectly content not owning a car. I get the impression he's loading up his 401(k), too, so it's not a case of him being off track. If he loves his iPhone, good for him.

Next time he fidgets about it, I'm definitely poking back, though. Why does my choice of phone bother him so much?

I'm fascinated by this, I keep hearing stories of IRL people who get bent out of shape by others not using iPhones. Where is this absolute nonsense coming from?
I had never heard of phone shaming in person until the last few months on this board, although I was accustomed to judgement the other direction by tech people online mostly in terms of insufficient value for money or objection to the walled garden with Apple (valid opinions, though sometimes delivered with excessive prescription or not enough eye to the needs & abilities of a given user.)

But it’s clearly happening widely, there are so many reports. Was there some media moment which made this suddenly seem like a normal thing to care about - I have definitely noticed people get ideas about what you can bully people for from entertainment media - or is this the natural outcome of fewer people having cars, which have heretofore been the portable markers of personal affluence across most of the US? Growing up in the South it wasn’t exactly uncommon for people to have trucks which overshadowed the cost of their house

A quick Google tells me there is a ton of anti-android content on TikTok.

Whenever there's some new bias for or against something really arbitrary, I tend to assume it's a TikTok trend.

Brit71

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Re: "Advocating for the obscene hoarding of wealth for a tiny minority."
« Reply #91 on: January 03, 2024, 06:51:16 AM »
Wait...what??

By their logic any degree of saving is "wealth hoarding."

The alternative is that folks waste more money on conspicuous consumerism and make A LOT more money over a longer period of time.

It's absolute gibberish logic.

Even if we're just looking at high earners and complaining about inequality, how can a high earner who chooses to indulge in extreme consumerism better than one who doesn't and therefore doesn't have to work as long?

I had colleagues buying Ferraris and helicopters while I was buying a used Corolla. And I'm somehow the wealth hoarding asshole??

We can only have trickle down economics if the obscenely wealthy spend their money; preferably, all of it so that they aren't wealthy anymore!
Trickle down isn't just spending it's also investing in businesses.  Basically anything that isn't putting your savings in your mattress is not hoarding.

eyesonthehorizon

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Re: "Advocating for the obscene hoarding of wealth for a tiny minority."
« Reply #92 on: January 03, 2024, 09:14:09 AM »
A quick Google tells me there is a ton of anti-android content on TikTok.

Whenever there's some new bias for or against something really arbitrary, I tend to assume it's a TikTok trend.
That would be just the thing! Different media than I had pictured, but when hating on something becomes a meme it tends to swarm in real life as passable behavior. It just used to be at the whims of whatever fiction was popular, & now people can DIY arbitrary bullshit to grief each other about.

I know there is in fact a tiny minority of brilliant content on TikTok (especially financial content, oddly) but I can’t bring myself to sign up.

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Re: "Advocating for the obscene hoarding of wealth for a tiny minority."
« Reply #93 on: January 03, 2024, 09:31:55 AM »
I have a friend who teaches in an elementary school. She's an Android owner. She told me ALL of her students use iPhones. When one of them found she has an Android, the student mumbled under her breath, "imagine having an android".

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Re: "Advocating for the obscene hoarding of wealth for a tiny minority."
« Reply #94 on: January 03, 2024, 09:39:34 AM »
I have a friend who teaches in an elementary school. She's an Android owner. She told me ALL of her students use iPhones. When one of them found she has an Android, the student mumbled under her breath, "imagine having an android".

She does have the option of smirking and saying: "imagine working and paying for your own phone instead of mooching off someone else."

There's a relationship between having to pay for the items you consume and being willing to reconsider whether it's necessary to pay extra for the latest and greatest model or for a trendy brand. Usually, trendy brands and current fashion in the hands of people who aren't working or whose income isn't enough to pay for all their living expenses are a sign that the owner is either a debt-slave or financially dependent on someone else. It's not a flex, but a sign that the person flashing the trendy brand is a sellout or mooch.

Metalcat

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Re: "Advocating for the obscene hoarding of wealth for a tiny minority."
« Reply #95 on: January 03, 2024, 10:51:54 AM »
I have a friend who teaches in an elementary school. She's an Android owner. She told me ALL of her students use iPhones. When one of them found she has an Android, the student mumbled under her breath, "imagine having an android".

She does have the option of smirking and saying: "imagine working and paying for your own phone instead of mooching off someone else."

There's a relationship between having to pay for the items you consume and being willing to reconsider whether it's necessary to pay extra for the latest and greatest model or for a trendy brand. Usually, trendy brands and current fashion in the hands of people who aren't working or whose income isn't enough to pay for all their living expenses are a sign that the owner is either a debt-slave or financially dependent on someone else. It's not a flex, but a sign that the person flashing the trendy brand is a sellout or mooch.

But many iPhones are inexpensive and many androids are expensive. Is it actually an expense thing or has this becomes some kind of cultural identity touchstone for some reason?

Apple has always had a cult following, but iPhone specifically seems to be making substantial cultural gains as an in-group hegemony

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Re: "Advocating for the obscene hoarding of wealth for a tiny minority."
« Reply #96 on: January 03, 2024, 11:02:37 AM »
I have a friend who teaches in an elementary school. She's an Android owner. She told me ALL of her students use iPhones. When one of them found she has an Android, the student mumbled under her breath, "imagine having an android".

She does have the option of smirking and saying: "imagine working and paying for your own phone instead of mooching off someone else."

There's a relationship between having to pay for the items you consume and being willing to reconsider whether it's necessary to pay extra for the latest and greatest model or for a trendy brand. Usually, trendy brands and current fashion in the hands of people who aren't working or whose income isn't enough to pay for all their living expenses are a sign that the owner is either a debt-slave or financially dependent on someone else. It's not a flex, but a sign that the person flashing the trendy brand is a sellout or mooch.

But many iPhones are inexpensive and many androids are expensive. Is it actually an expense thing or has this becomes some kind of cultural identity touchstone for some reason?

Apple has always had a cult following, but iPhone specifically seems to be making substantial cultural gains as an in-group hegemony

I was going to mention this.  Many android phones are just as expensive as the most expensive iPhones these days.  And that did surprise me.  And guess what?  Many Android faithful like the expensive ones...just like iPhones.

From my ( limited ) experience, but in a tech setting, it is an identity issue for some.  The "apple vs. google" tribes are real. 







neo von retorch

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Re: "Advocating for the obscene hoarding of wealth for a tiny minority."
« Reply #97 on: January 03, 2024, 11:07:46 AM »
You can't view it through a practical lens. It's marketing, calculated product decisions, and a sense of being in the "in group."

Realistically, the iPhone has always been about being a premium, curated experience. That is to say, Apple knows best, and they'll give you the best experience as long as you cede control to them.

Android has always been about choice and control. You'll have to figure out the right experience for yourself, including deciding how much to spend to get the hardware you want. But ultimately, the messaging experience is relatively messy on Android (not that it's tidy on iPhone, because in addition to iMessage, there's still options to use Snapchat, Messenger, Tiktok, Instagram, WhatsApp, etc.,) particularly because SMS/MMS is inconsistent between phones, and of course especially with iPhone group messages.

iMessage gives "all iPhone user" group chats their best experience, and then massively downgrade the experience if just one person is included in the chat that doesn't have an iPhone.

Overall this gives these teens this impression that as long as they stick to the premium, conforming experience and be a good little iPhone user, they are worthy of love and affection from their peers. But if they dare to be different, they should be ostracized.

charis

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Re: "Advocating for the obscene hoarding of wealth for a tiny minority."
« Reply #98 on: January 03, 2024, 11:16:56 AM »
iMessage gives "all iPhone user" group chats their best experience, and then massively downgrade the experience if just one person is included in the chat that doesn't have an iPhone.

This is it right here.

Morning Glory

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Re: "Advocating for the obscene hoarding of wealth for a tiny minority."
« Reply #99 on: January 03, 2024, 11:22:14 AM »
My 20-something (recent grad) coworker remains thoroughly scandalized that I have an Android, even though he's perfectly content not owning a car. I get the impression he's loading up his 401(k), too, so it's not a case of him being off track. If he loves his iPhone, good for him.

Next time he fidgets about it, I'm definitely poking back, though. Why does my choice of phone bother him so much?

I'm fascinated by this, I keep hearing stories of IRL people who get bent out of shape by others not using iPhones. Where is this absolute nonsense coming from?
I had never heard of phone shaming in person until the last few months on this board, although I was accustomed to judgement the other direction by tech people online mostly in terms of insufficient value for money or objection to the walled garden with Apple (valid opinions, though sometimes delivered with excessive prescription or not enough eye to the needs & abilities of a given user.)

But it’s clearly happening widely, there are so many reports. Was there some media moment which made this suddenly seem like a normal thing to care about - I have definitely noticed people get ideas about what you can bully people for from entertainment media - or is this the natural outcome of fewer people having cars, which have heretofore been the portable markers of personal affluence across most of the US? Growing up in the South it wasn’t exactly uncommon for people to have trucks which overshadowed the cost of their house

And there used to be a sort of rivalry between "Ford guys" and "Chevy guys" right? Soon we will see stickers with Calvin and hobbies pissing on opposite phone brands because most people still haven't figured out that consumption doesn't equal identity.

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!