Author Topic: AA: Affluenza Anonymous  (Read 6400 times)

force majeure

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slugline

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Re: AA: Affluenza Anonymous
« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2016, 01:03:22 PM »
So the problems of people with a whole lot of money must be addressed by spending a whole lot of money. That's convenient.

jinga nation

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Re: AA: Affluenza Anonymous
« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2016, 01:15:59 PM »
So the problems of people with a whole lot of money must be addressed by spending a whole lot of money. That's convenient.
What's $40,000 when you have a Million Dollar Trust Fund. 4% rule, eh!

Metric Mouse

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Re: AA: Affluenza Anonymous
« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2016, 02:46:48 PM »
The subtext here is that anyone can open a rehab facility.  Reminds me of "Help at any cost." The effects can be truly frightening.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2016, 07:21:08 PM by Metric Mouse »

RFAAOATB

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Re: AA: Affluenza Anonymous
« Reply #4 on: November 21, 2016, 03:23:29 PM »
I just finished reading about another poor rich boy RFK JR and he might have gotten some use out of this.  For those with the means to afford it and unfortunately the need to provide it, the 85% chance of success is a huge selling point.

meghan88

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Re: AA: Affluenza Anonymous
« Reply #5 on: November 21, 2016, 06:54:32 PM »
The subtext here is that anykne can open a rehab facility.  Reminds me of "Help at any cost." The effects can be truly frightening.

Yes, this, but it has the necessary niche appeal.  Heaven forbid that these clients rub shoulders with anyone not from the same social caste.  Money is very likely an effective differentiating device in this case.

TheGrimSqueaker

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Re: AA: Affluenza Anonymous
« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2016, 09:53:39 AM »
The subtext here is that anykne can open a rehab facility.  Reminds me of "Help at any cost." The effects can be truly frightening.

Yes, this, but it has the necessary niche appeal.  Heaven forbid that these clients rub shoulders with anyone not from the same social caste.  Money is very likely an effective differentiating device in this case.

There's actually a very good medical argument for keeping wealthy addicts in recovery away from broke ones.

A wealthy addict is like catnip to someone looking for an enabler, and one of the things addicts do is instinctively form close emotional bonds with prospective enablers. Since an addict's boundaries are as floppy as overcooked pasta (a characteristic of addiction) it's very hard to determine when and how "helping" is appropriate. So a recovering addict with means is a magnet for everyone who wants a meal ticket.

It's very common for a recovering addict to flip the script by becoming someone else's enabler, which in turn leads to relapse. It's because the recovering addict has a very distorted model of what human behavior should be like, and is familiar chiefly with addict and enabler roles. They seek out what's familiar even when it's dysfunctional. The pressure already exists just because of the addiction dynamics. It doesn't need to be made worse by adding a bunch of class guilt pressure.

It's never a good idea to knowingly put a very vulnerable person who happens to have the economic power to enable on an ongoing basis in close contact with a very vulnerable person who is going to be looking for an enabler because that's a characteristic of addiction. It sabotages two people's recovery: the rich person's, and the poor person's. So there's a good argument for keeping the poor addict away from the human catnip, and the rich addict away from the guilt bait.

One very famous example is the late Amy Winehouse, who spent a ton of her money trying to help some of the people she met in rehab. It didn't end well.

shelivesthedream

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Re: AA: Affluenza Anonymous
« Reply #7 on: November 28, 2016, 01:42:16 AM »
I found this bit really sad.

Quote
While other rehabs have family weekends, Newport Academy requires more regular sessions with a family therapist. It’s the job of Heather Hagen, the academy’s family program director, to bring families into the treatment. Sometimes it means confronting those issues of neglect. Wealth, she says, is just one more factor to deal with—an enabler.

“With affluence comes a lot of access,” she says, sitting with Monroe in a den at the Ranch. “They’ve got a car. It’s easier to get over on your parents. They aren’t going to notice if $500 is gone out of their wallet.” She has stories about mothers whose kids pawned Mom’s engagement ring while in the throes of addiction. The flip side of wealth, she says, is how it facilitates neglect. “If you’ve got unlimited resources,” she says, “you can justify your not being there by providing monetary things.”

Monroe nods. “Dads who say, ‘But we gave you everything.’”

Hagen smiles and adds: “ ‘But the nanny was there.’”

Monroe again: “‘I bought you this brand-new Mercedes. I pay for your private school. You’ve got the best tutors. You’ve got a private baseball coach. I don’t come to your games because I’m working all the time.’ I’ve heard so many dads, including my own, say this. ‘I work all the time to provide you with this lifestyle, to provide you with all these things. That’s how I love you.’ But a young person—an adolescent, and especially a newborn, a toddler—they obviously don’t get that.”

There’s a cognitive dissonance to their predicament. And their parents have bought into it and reinforce it: this sense that these kids ought to be grateful for everything they have, and that failures, small and large, aren’t justifiable. Is it any wonder, then, that they grow up paralyzed, lacking the most elemental of life skills? It’s beyond entitlement—it’s a corrosive arrested development. Until they come to rehab, they can’t even come up with a rational narrative of neglect because they’ve been so coddled.

rawr237

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Re: AA: Affluenza Anonymous
« Reply #8 on: November 28, 2016, 09:22:52 AM »
I found this bit really sad.

Quote
.....
There’s a cognitive dissonance to their predicament. And their parents have bought into it and reinforce it: this sense that these kids ought to be grateful for everything they have, and that failures, small and large, aren’t justifiable. Is it any wonder, then, that they grow up paralyzed, lacking the most elemental of life skills? It’s beyond entitlement—it’s a corrosive arrested development. Until they come to rehab, they can’t even come up with a rational narrative of neglect because they’ve been so coddled.

Agreed on the sadness. I don't really want to mock these people....if they can afford it, then why not? While 'affluenza' sounds pretty ridiculous, I've seen a little bit of it in person -- went to a preppy high school for two years. There was a lot of money floating around -- nice cars, big parties, expensive clothes -- but one guy in a class below mine was troubled, and ended up committing suicide years later. Having everything you could want materially eliminates a lot of potential issues, but doesn't equate to having everything a kid needs emotionally/psychologically.

In the face of a media that broadcasts the message that money and things are what make people happy, it's easy for us to pile on and pshhhh. But the MMM community knows that true wealth is in the freedom that money provides -- to spend time on our family, our relationships, our hobbies that bring joy -- kids raised in families that prioritize stuff and cash don't get to see that perspective.

I don't think that 'affluenza' should be the basis of a lighter sentence for a criminal defense...but I can relate to having everything I could need/want (albeit not at the trust-fund level) and carrying shame that despite my good fortune, I still have some depression. In a society that ranks people's problems in such judgmental fashion, someone with the 'rich people problem' of not feeling loved or valued might see their problems as not 'bad' enough to share in group therapy, knowing that the group includes people living below the poverty line.

On one hand it's throwing money at the problem, but it seems like they make an effort to get parents engaged in ways that could affect the relationships going forward. It also makes sense that having a zillion types of therapy in one place could help someone find what works best for them. Just too bad that not everyone has access to this level of care.

Certainly not Mustachian, but if it gets more parents to send their kids who need it to rehab, and actually helps the kids...why not send them somewhere that lets them know it's okay/normal to have problems that money doesn't solve? Definitely better than 'I'll buy you a new car if you stop doing this [destructive behavior]'.

TheGrimSqueaker

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Re: AA: Affluenza Anonymous
« Reply #9 on: November 28, 2016, 09:29:57 AM »
I found this bit really sad.

Quote
While other rehabs have family weekends, Newport Academy requires more regular sessions with a family therapist. It’s the job of Heather Hagen, the academy’s family program director, to bring families into the treatment. Sometimes it means confronting those issues of neglect. Wealth, she says, is just one more factor to deal with—an enabler.

“With affluence comes a lot of access,” she says, sitting with Monroe in a den at the Ranch. “They’ve got a car. It’s easier to get over on your parents. They aren’t going to notice if $500 is gone out of their wallet.” She has stories about mothers whose kids pawned Mom’s engagement ring while in the throes of addiction. The flip side of wealth, she says, is how it facilitates neglect. “If you’ve got unlimited resources,” she says, “you can justify your not being there by providing monetary things.”

Monroe nods. “Dads who say, ‘But we gave you everything.’”

Hagen smiles and adds: “ ‘But the nanny was there.’”

Monroe again: “‘I bought you this brand-new Mercedes. I pay for your private school. You’ve got the best tutors. You’ve got a private baseball coach. I don’t come to your games because I’m working all the time.’ I’ve heard so many dads, including my own, say this. ‘I work all the time to provide you with this lifestyle, to provide you with all these things. That’s how I love you.’ But a young person—an adolescent, and especially a newborn, a toddler—they obviously don’t get that.”

There’s a cognitive dissonance to their predicament. And their parents have bought into it and reinforce it: this sense that these kids ought to be grateful for everything they have, and that failures, small and large, aren’t justifiable. Is it any wonder, then, that they grow up paralyzed, lacking the most elemental of life skills? It’s beyond entitlement—it’s a corrosive arrested development. Until they come to rehab, they can’t even come up with a rational narrative of neglect because they’ve been so coddled.

Young people growing up do need adult attention. However, demanding that it come directly from the person who provided the sperm or egg is unreasonable. Plenty of people grow up well-adjusted having been cared for by people besides their bio-parents. Babies and kids also require people to bond to, for a sense of stability and identity. There's no reason it can't be a long-term caregiver such as a nanny or tutor, provided the parents make sure such a person is there for the long term.

People do, however, have a need for adversity. One thing humans commonly do, when life is too easy, is manufacture some adversity or drama so that they have something to overcome and also a reason to justify their presence. Addiction is one of many ways in which people do this.

ariapluscat

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Re: AA: Affluenza Anonymous
« Reply #10 on: November 29, 2016, 07:22:13 AM »
The subtext here is that anyone can open a rehab facility.  Reminds me of "Help at any cost." The effects can be truly frightening.
Right?!?! not even 6 months after leaving a program he feels qualified to make his own.
i've been thru several theraputic programs and feel like i deal w my depression and anxiety really well. i'm 23, have a college degree, and a decent job. but i'd never think that makes me qualified to open a facility. maybe volunteer with youth or push for reform in mental health treatment. but 6 months? and full responsibility? on severe medical issues?

if anything, just pitching that idea makes me think that this kid didn't really get his own program fully. jumping into care giving roles and avoiding responsibility for yourself by grabbing other ppls' crisis - #BadIdea

shelivesthedream

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Re: AA: Affluenza Anonymous
« Reply #11 on: November 29, 2016, 07:46:18 AM »
My impression was that he came out of rehab and asked his father for the money to open a centre and his father said no. So then he went and volunteered/helped at another rehab facility to prove that he could do it before opening one of his own.

Also that he was just doing the "business" side and had actual real doctors etc to do the actual real work.

TheGrimSqueaker

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Re: AA: Affluenza Anonymous
« Reply #12 on: November 29, 2016, 07:53:44 AM »
Also that he was just doing the "business" side and had actual real doctors etc to do the actual real work.

That's the key factor that, to me, shows evidence of intelligence and decent reasoning. He saw a business opportunity, that's all. Hopefully he will also hire competent office and administrative help if he doesn't have experience or education in that area.

SweetTPi

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Re: AA: Affluenza Anonymous
« Reply #13 on: November 29, 2016, 02:03:58 PM »
I found this bit really sad.

Quote
.....
There’s a cognitive dissonance to their predicament. And their parents have bought into it and reinforce it: this sense that these kids ought to be grateful for everything they have, and that failures, small and large, aren’t justifiable. Is it any wonder, then, that they grow up paralyzed, lacking the most elemental of life skills? It’s beyond entitlement—it’s a corrosive arrested development. Until they come to rehab, they can’t even come up with a rational narrative of neglect because they’ve been so coddled.
While 'affluenza' sounds pretty ridiculous, I've seen a little bit of it in person -- went to a preppy high school for two years. There was a lot of money floating around [...]. Having everything you could want materially eliminates a lot of potential issues, but doesn't equate to having everything a kid needs emotionally/psychologically.

Isn't this the truth.  I also went to a prep school for 2 years, and some of the parents there... well, it's a minor miracle that some of the kids turned out as well as they did.  There were stories about kids being told to their face that they were unwanted by parents that then shuttled them off to various boarding schools.  Not a huge surprise that some began partying with alcohol and mj.  Some got caught- one has to wonder if it was on purpose to give a big FU to the parents, or if it was the only way for the kid to get any attention at all, positive or negative, from them.

Spiffsome

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Re: AA: Affluenza Anonymous
« Reply #14 on: November 30, 2016, 04:26:43 PM »
People do, however, have a need for adversity. One thing humans commonly do, when life is too easy, is manufacture some adversity or drama so that they have something to overcome and also a reason to justify their presence. Addiction is one of many ways in which people do this.

Does this apply to aspiring Mustachians when they finally FIRE?

TheGrimSqueaker

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Re: AA: Affluenza Anonymous
« Reply #15 on: November 30, 2016, 05:37:09 PM »
People do, however, have a need for adversity. One thing humans commonly do, when life is too easy, is manufacture some adversity or drama so that they have something to overcome and also a reason to justify their presence. Addiction is one of many ways in which people do this.

Does this apply to aspiring Mustachians when they finally FIRE?

I would think not: frugality, like anything else that deviates from the path of least resistance, is not generally easy especially at first. Being Mustachian in an Antimustachian world constitutes minor adversity.

englyn

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Re: AA: Affluenza Anonymous
« Reply #16 on: December 09, 2016, 12:58:43 AM »
People do, however, have a need for adversity. One thing humans commonly do, when life is too easy, is manufacture some adversity or drama so that they have something to overcome and also a reason to justify their presence. Addiction is one of many ways in which people do this.
So's having children...

marty998

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Re: AA: Affluenza Anonymous
« Reply #17 on: December 09, 2016, 04:45:12 PM »
People do, however, have a need for adversity. One thing humans commonly do, when life is too easy, is manufacture some adversity or drama so that they have something to overcome and also a reason to justify their presence. Addiction is one of many ways in which people do this.
So's having children...

Oh my god. That made me laugh.

Metric Mouse

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Re: AA: Affluenza Anonymous
« Reply #18 on: December 11, 2016, 02:33:28 PM »
People do, however, have a need for adversity. One thing humans commonly do, when life is too easy, is manufacture some adversity or drama so that they have something to overcome and also a reason to justify their presence. Addiction is one of many ways in which people do this.

Does this apply to aspiring Mustachians when they finally FIRE?

Yes. They come here and start journals and post in off-topic threads about the election or climate change or the best way to drawdown funds from their investment accounts.