Author Topic: 66% of Millenials have nothing saved for retirement; reddit comments  (Read 7266 times)

5oclockshadowmustacheNYC

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https://old.reddit.com/r/news/comments/96yfed/66_of_millennials_have_nothing_saved_for/?st=jksdxbai&sh=d2203876

When I see comments like "it's the iPhones we buy", I want to say, "you're not wrong", but I know I'll just come across as preachy.  I'm fortunate to have a fairly high-paying job, but MMM has quite handily laid out the math for all sorts of incomes lower than me and how feasible it is to live off of those salaries.

BTDretire

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Re: 66% of Millenials have nothing saved for retirement; reddit comments
« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2018, 12:19:32 PM »
This one's good!

CROSS,
on the one check i don't have to pay rent with, i spend 550$ just on car/insurance, and on my other paycheck i gotta pay my rent and other bills.
and i actually make OK money compared to a lot of other ppl in my age/economic class.

GEEFOR,
Get a cheaper car that you can afford. My insurance on 2 cars for a year was under $850


CROSS,
well, i had bad credit so i was bascially shoehorned into buying a new car which i really didn't want. is there a way out of that? i really need to find a subreddit that could help me with that.

frugalfoothills

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Re: 66% of Millenials have nothing saved for retirement; reddit comments
« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2018, 12:38:43 PM »
FWIW, the article also mentiones that over 40% of GenX and Boomers have yet to start saving. I'd think that would be more newsworthy considering the age difference there... some Millenials are in their early 20s. It feels like less of a concern if a 22 year old hasn't started saving vs. a 55 year old, no?

It just feels like "Millenial" gets tossed out as often as possible as clickbait, when in reality we aren't that much different than generations who have come before us. I read some garbage article the other day about how "Half of Millenial homeowners regret their decision to buy a house," and the reasons were stupid things like: they settled on a home that wasn't perfect for them. Surely that isn't restricted to Millenials? I'd wager there are plenty of folks in that camp, but the Millenial angle always gets people to click.

Of course, I am a Millenial, so maybe I'm just overly sensitive ;)

FireHiker

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Re: 66% of Millenials have nothing saved for retirement; reddit comments
« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2018, 12:43:56 PM »
Of course, I am a Millenial, so maybe I'm just overly sensitive ;)

As a GenXer myself, I am far more concerned about the 40% of GenX and Boomers without savings, like you said.

BTDretire

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Re: 66% of Millenials have nothing saved for retirement; reddit comments
« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2018, 12:58:35 PM »
I have read a large part of the thread and there is an awful lot of whining about the situation that society has
put them in. Doesn't seem there's anything they can do to help themselves.
 Live under your income and invest the money. Then invest in yourself, so you can make more money.
Also, there are way more than 40 hours in a week.

elliha

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Re: 66% of Millenials have nothing saved for retirement; reddit comments
« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2018, 01:28:34 PM »
If you are 20 and you have to choose between having retirement savings and an emergency fund or paying off loans with a lot of interest I think it is fine to prioritize your needs right now. If you are not dreaming about early retirement (yet) why not live in the now? Or even worse, if you don't make a lot of money which many young people are not, well then it might not even be a choice but something you do to make ends meet now. It is one thing to save for retirement through different work related programs, that I think is wise to do even as a young person but private savings only meant for retirement when you do not have a desire for a very early retirment is not something I would even recommend. I would suggest investments that can be used now or be saved until later if they are not needed and focus on retirement after 30. If you still expect to work until 60+ you can rather have more flexible investments for a while.

obstinate

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Re: 66% of Millenials have nothing saved for retirement; reddit comments
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2018, 01:59:43 PM »
I think it's OK to recognize that it's challenging to live on $35k per year and save significant amounts of money. It would be great if people could, but it's not surprising that they don't.

Personally, I'm far more interested in the people who do make significant money and still don't have savings.

thd7t

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Re: 66% of Millenials have nothing saved for retirement; reddit comments
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2018, 02:21:11 PM »
Well, that was depressing.  Notwithstanding the couple of Gen-Xers who had to cash out at bad times because of medical troubles (these are legitimately sad stories), there's a range from "I don't make any money" to "I make good money, but can't keep afloat".  I don't know.  Do people not have roommates anymore?

Prairie Stash

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Re: 66% of Millenials have nothing saved for retirement; reddit comments
« Reply #8 on: August 14, 2018, 11:28:01 AM »

Of course, I am a Millenial, so maybe I'm just overly sensitive ;)
all millenials are overly sensitive ;) 

That's the title for my next clickbait article.

dougules

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Re: 66% of Millenials have nothing saved for retirement; reddit comments
« Reply #9 on: August 14, 2018, 11:33:27 AM »
While it is sad if so many millennials haven't saved for retirement, I agree that Baby boomers and Gen X are a much bigger story.  The millennials have some time to improve their situation and change their ways. 
 
And yes, millennial hating has become a favorite for click-bait.

DS

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I'm a red panda

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Re: 66% of Millenials have nothing saved for retirement; reddit comments
« Reply #11 on: August 14, 2018, 12:36:07 PM »
Millenials are aged 22-37 right now.
If you assume an even spread of ages, 66% of them are under 32. This really doesn't seem like a giant emergency...
I mean it would be better if we all had great savings, but a lot of young 20 somethings aren't even in their first "real" job yet.


I am nearly 2 comma club at 36, and I didn't start my first retirement account until 25.


Boomers without retirement savings, that's scary. GenXers, that's worrisome.  Millenials? They'll get there.  But hopefully more are hearing about the power of compound interest and getting investing now.

Edit: The article apparently defines millenials as 21-32.  So they basically cut off the older millennials that are more likely to have savings with their definition.  This is the first time I've ever seen millenial start at 1986; though as a used to be called "GenY" millenial, it makes more sense to me, because I don't identify with many of the "millenial" traits.

Also, even within the 21-32 age  group the article says "More than 94% of Millennials who are eligible for a workplace retirement plan are saving." So once they get jobs that offer a 401k or 403b, they use them.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2018, 12:47:21 PM by I'm a red panda »

Prairie Stash

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Re: 66% of Millenials have nothing saved for retirement; reddit comments
« Reply #12 on: August 14, 2018, 01:38:13 PM »

Of course, I am a Millenial, so maybe I'm just overly sensitive ;)
all millenials are overly sensitive ;) 

That's the title for my next clickbait article.

https://www.google.com/search?q=millennials+over+sensitive&oq=millennials+over+sensitive&aqs=chrome..69i57.276j0j9&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
Looks to me like it's an easy topic.

I think I'll do a follow up that says "The Children of Millenials are Illiterate", I bet the majority of millenials haven't taught their kids to read yet, its a disgrace.

Just Joe

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Re: 66% of Millenials have nothing saved for retirement; reddit comments
« Reply #13 on: August 14, 2018, 05:34:48 PM »

Of course, I am a Millenial, so maybe I'm just overly sensitive ;)
all millenials are overly sensitive ;) 

That's the title for my next clickbait article.

The comments section of THAT article won't get ugly - will they? /s

DreamFIRE

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Re: 66% of Millenials have nothing saved for retirement; reddit comments
« Reply #14 on: August 14, 2018, 06:47:50 PM »
I didn't read the article yet, but I will when I get a chance.

I hear people call millenials the "entitled" generation.

I generally don't like these generational generalizations, as if a person born just one year later or earlier would crossover and have a whole different generalization applied to them.

Many of the boomers and genxers that aren't saving my have pensions coming and expected large inheritances.

Pensions aren't as common and are being cut for many newer workers, taxes will probably be increased significantly on millenials to pay the government debt, possible additional universal healthcare taxes, and take hikes to the payroll tax to fund social security and soaring Medicare costs.  This is going to leave many millenials' paychecks pretty tight to save while looking at less income in their future from pensions and social security for themselves (as the age is raised and benefits likely slashed).  So it is important that they get started saving even earlier than the generations that preceded them.

I'm a red panda

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Re: 66% of Millenials have nothing saved for retirement; reddit comments
« Reply #15 on: August 15, 2018, 07:26:45 AM »
Wait...34% of people under 37 are saving for retirement?? That’s actually pretty good!

Of course, the other 66% could do better and hopefully they will, but I know plenty of people in their 30s who prioritized paying off school debt and saving for a down payment. It really doesn’t seem that newsworthy that only 34% have managed to get into a position to start saving for retirement.

Of course plenty of millenials are blowing money on useless consumer shit because everyone is. Why bother isolating their age group when their numbers don’t actually look so bad?

I too am a millennial who is still paying off student debt and not yet really prioritizing saving for retirement, so yeah, my sensitive snowflake ass says “fuck off” to this click bait bullshit.

Not 34% of people under 37 (which would include small children too), the article narrowly defines millennial as 21-32 (so cuts off the oldest millenials).

Prairie Stash

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Re: 66% of Millenials have nothing saved for retirement; reddit comments
« Reply #16 on: August 15, 2018, 08:40:26 AM »

Of course, I am a Millenial, so maybe I'm just overly sensitive ;)
all millenials are overly sensitive ;) 

That's the title for my next clickbait article.

The comments section of THAT article won't get ugly - will they? /s
I'll put a disclaimer at the bottom explaining irony. People always read to the bottom, amirite?

Nicholas Carter

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Re: 66% of Millenials have nothing saved for retirement; reddit comments
« Reply #17 on: August 15, 2018, 09:39:43 AM »
Well, that was depressing.  Notwithstanding the couple of Gen-Xers who had to cash out at bad times because of medical troubles (these are legitimately sad stories), there's a range from "I don't make any money" to "I make good money, but can't keep afloat".  I don't know.  Do people not have roommates anymore?
I've lived in three different group living scenarios (three people, seven, and five). In every single one of those groups, at least one person has been unemployed at least part of every 12 month lease. I've had roommates get laid off or take a pay cut, and drop their contribution below a full share. Sometimes down to nothing.

LiveLean

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Re: 66% of Millenials have nothing saved for retirement; reddit comments
« Reply #18 on: August 15, 2018, 03:49:01 PM »
Not to downplay this, but the younger millennials -- those born between 1996 and 2000 -- are now between 18 and 22 years old. They're still in college, presumably. They should not be expected to have retirement savings. So this represents 20 percent of them, assuming we're looking at the 1980-2000 birth range.

There's a commercial on the Dave Ramsey show by one of his people, Chris Hogan, where he says 60 percent of Americans under the age of 40 have nothing saved for retirement. How much should we expect anyone from birth to 22 to have saved for retirement? That would represent more than 50 percent of Americans under the age of 40.

No question people have undersaved, but there's no need to exaggerate. 

Classical_Liberal

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Re: 66% of Millenials have nothing saved for retirement; reddit comments
« Reply #19 on: August 16, 2018, 03:05:52 AM »
Of course, I am a Millenial, so maybe I'm just overly sensitive ;)

As a GenXer myself, I am far more concerned about the 40% of GenX and Boomers without savings, like you said.

Why it's no change from the status quo. 23% of married couples and 43% of single retirees live off of social security alone..

Almost all of the networth of retirement aged median is tied up in their homes.

ender

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Re: 66% of Millenials have nothing saved for retirement; reddit comments
« Reply #20 on: August 16, 2018, 06:39:23 AM »
My biggest issue is you have people like this:

Quote
Seriously, if we can’t get ahead with 180k/y income, how the f-ck do people survive on median income, or less? Although our situation was extreme but in other 1st world countries, there is a safety net for this type of thing

Or the people acting like all Baby Boomers get nice pensions (which isn't true, a relatively low percentage do).

The "it's the fault of Baby Boomers" sentiment there is really strong. It's impressive to me, really, and ultimately I think it's feeling like you have no control that causes this. Tons of people there blame no retirement plans at work - everyone has access to IRAs.

People who make excuses for everything will find lots of reasons that ultimately boil down to, "I don't want to save." The comments there are filled with people making well above median household income and yet lamenting their lives. There are a few "I live frugally and don't seem to have a problem saving" people posting there but they are drowned out by the number of people who want to blame the problem on others.

marty998

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Re: 66% of Millenials have nothing saved for retirement; reddit comments
« Reply #21 on: August 16, 2018, 07:28:26 AM »
As a 1986 baby, I can definitely tell you we are Gen Y, not millennial.... there's big difference between those that entered their working lives during the GFC, and those that entered high school with an iPhone in hand and Facebook on the screens.

Milennial has to start at least at 1990-92...

I'm a red panda

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Re: 66% of Millenials have nothing saved for retirement; reddit comments
« Reply #22 on: August 16, 2018, 08:03:40 AM »
As a 1986 baby, I can definitely tell you we are Gen Y, not millennial.... there's big difference between those that entered their working lives during the GFC, and those that entered high school with an iPhone in hand and Facebook on the screens.

Milennial has to start at least at 1990-92...

I've never heard any classification that didn't include 1986 as millennial.  1980 and 1981 seems to be the disputed years, most everyone includes '82.

I think people think millennials are a lot younger than they are.  It doesn't help that they changed the name from GenY after we were all used to hearing that growing up. It took me a long time to realize I was a millenial, because I grew up with the name GenY ('82).   Of course, this article cuts me out, because they define millenial by leaving the oldest ones out.

Anyone who is on the cusp of a generation classification probably doesn't identify strongly with it though.

MrOnyx

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Re: 66% of Millenials have nothing saved for retirement; reddit comments
« Reply #23 on: August 16, 2018, 08:13:14 AM »
As a 1986 baby, I can definitely tell you we are Gen Y, not millennial.... there's big difference between those that entered their working lives during the GFC, and those that entered high school with an iPhone in hand and Facebook on the screens.

Milennial has to start at least at 1990-92...

As someone with an odd curiosity for generational cohorts and what they mean/their historical relevance, I've read a bit about this. The exact birth year border for the 'Millennial' generation, like many other cohorts, is very blurred, with experts arguing over when exactly it starts and ends. Typically, the beginning is placed in the early 80's with the ending placed towards the end of the 90's, according to Wikipedia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennials

Also, Gen Y is considered to be an alternative name to 'Millennial' that got thrown out when Millennial was adopted, because the person who coined the term 'Gen Y' conceded that Millennial was a better term. Fun little piece of trivia, I think!

It's understandable why the lines are blurry - while society is changing very rapidly, it doesn't change overnight; rather things evolve over time, so it's not like there's a hard cut-off point between two ages where generations end and begin - that's even if we assume that there's any tangible difference between people of different generations that we can safely generalise.

But I'm going to guess that this article selectively cut around the section they liked in order to best fit their narrative. Why? Because mass media loves a good story, and us Millennials ought to be scapegoated. /s

Just Joe

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Re: 66% of Millenials have nothing saved for retirement; reddit comments
« Reply #24 on: August 16, 2018, 08:17:34 AM »
Why don't we sort people by self motivation? Put the hustlers in one group and the slackers in another, skip the generational scapegoating.

DS

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Re: 66% of Millenials have nothing saved for retirement; reddit comments
« Reply #25 on: August 16, 2018, 08:38:02 AM »
Be on the lookout for the same article in 10, 20, 30 years just with the word "millennial" replaced.

I'm a red panda

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Re: 66% of Millenials have nothing saved for retirement; reddit comments
« Reply #26 on: August 16, 2018, 08:51:15 AM »
Because mass media loves a good story, and us Millennials ought to be scapegoated. /s

GenX got plenty of scapegoating when they were the same age.  Even now they are still considered a slacker generation. 

MrOnyx

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Re: 66% of Millenials have nothing saved for retirement; reddit comments
« Reply #27 on: August 16, 2018, 09:06:54 AM »
Yeah. It's just the 'kids these days...' rhetoric, and it'll never die. I guess people don't like change.

Prairie Stash

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Re: 66% of Millenials have nothing saved for retirement; reddit comments
« Reply #28 on: August 16, 2018, 04:17:52 PM »
Because mass media loves a good story, and us Millennials ought to be scapegoated. /s

GenX got plenty of scapegoating when they were the same age.  Even now they are still considered a slacker generation.
I want to dispute that, I'll get a reply out later

Ellsie Equanimity

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Re: 66% of Millenials have nothing saved for retirement; reddit comments
« Reply #29 on: August 16, 2018, 04:50:46 PM »
As someone with an odd curiosity for generational cohorts and what they mean/their historical relevance, I've read a bit about this. The exact birth year border for the 'Millennial' generation, like many other cohorts, is very blurred, with experts arguing over when exactly it starts and ends. Typically, the beginning is placed in the early 80's with the ending placed towards the end of the 90's, according to Wikipedia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennials

Also, Gen Y is considered to be an alternative name to 'Millennial' that got thrown out when Millennial was adopted, because the person who coined the term 'Gen Y' conceded that Millennial was a better term. Fun little piece of trivia, I think!

It's understandable why the lines are blurry - while society is changing very rapidly, it doesn't change overnight; rather things evolve over time, so it's not like there's a hard cut-off point between two ages where generations end and begin - that's even if we assume that there's any tangible difference between people of different generations that we can safely generalise.

But I'm going to guess that this article selectively cut around the section they liked in order to best fit their narrative. Why? Because mass media loves a good story, and us Millennials ought to be scapegoated. /s

I also find the generational cohort classification interesting. I work in college communications and have attended a couple of presentations on the generation after the millenials, who are the ones actually in college now. Millenials are definitely older than people tend to think and the use of the term is pretty sloppy, generally just used in place of "young adult."

I still only skimmed over this stuff but interestingly, if you backtrack from the reddit thread to the actual article to the actual report - the report starts by talking about Millenials as those born between 1981 and 1991 (making the youngest millenials 27), then chooses to analyze a survey of "working Millenials between the ages of 21 and 32." It's unclear to me if their intro info referencing millenials is about the group aged 27-37 or the group 21-32 (I could probably check their sources but I don't care that much), when they say stuff like:

Quote
"this generation is viewed as less financially savvy than previous generations when it comes to saving for retirement, budgeting,
and establishing and maintaining a financial plan. Specifically, Millennials are characterized as spending too much money on unnecessary expenses. Yet, as Bank of America details in their 2018 report, these perceptions may be as outdated. Millennials are saving at the same rates as Generation X (“GenX”), more Millennials have a savings goal than other generations, and Millennials feel more financially secure than GenX."

The report actually lays out what they see as the difficulties Millenials will face, and doesn't just conclude 'wow they aren't saving' but rather says 'they don't have enough eligibility for employer retirement plans, but when they have it they use it, though they still aren't saving adequately enough.'

So much news is just trying to summarize stuff, going back to the original source is usually best, though even the original report used the term millenial quite sloppily.

Spiffy

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Re: 66% of Millenials have nothing saved for retirement; reddit comments
« Reply #30 on: August 16, 2018, 06:41:22 PM »
Because mass media loves a good story, and us Millennials ought to be scapegoated. /s

GenX got plenty of scapegoating when they were the same age.  Even now they are still considered a slacker generation.
Proud member of Gen X here. The mention of slackers reminded me of something that I hadn't thought about in a while. I went to the University of Texas. The Art Linklater movie "Slackers" came out while I was there and a year later he was filming Dazed and Confused (several of the same actors in both movies). I was a senior and worked at a video game arcade and pool hall and spent many hours playing pool with them when they had breaks from filming. I remember it was mostly the younger ones (my age) like Parker Posey, Rory Cochrane, and Jason London. I should put this in the thread "What have you done that no one else has..."

MrOnyx

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Re: 66% of Millenials have nothing saved for retirement; reddit comments
« Reply #31 on: August 17, 2018, 02:31:06 AM »
So much news is just trying to summarize stuff, going back to the original source is usually best, though even the original report used the term millenial quite sloppily.

This is the problem - in pursuit of 'the hook', a good headline or just for the sake of comprehension to the layman, many important details are often omitted from publications by mainstream media outlets.

Sometimes this goes too far as we know - a recent case comes to mind where a writer for a popular news outlet was outed for asking people to tell him horror stories of the effects of playing Pokémon Go - offering $100 for the story he uses. The punchline? Truth was secondary in importance next to the level of drama and a good story. One guy replied to this with an outrageously bullshit story about how he had arguments with his wife, neglected his family etc. for this game, and this writer actually got back to him. He said something along the lines of that's great, I want to use your story, but it could use something else. How about the wife leaves you? I mean I was just absolutely stricken. These stories are meant to be presented as facts, so it's pretty disgusting. This writer's motive was clearly to yet again demonise the youth, video games, blah blah. Anyway, that's enough of a tangent for now.

But yeah, back to the report at hand, I have to doubt the integrity of it if they did not bother to be strict on something as important as defining exactly who the report is supposed to be about. That's basically rule #1 imo.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2018, 06:40:24 AM by MrOnyx »

Nicholas Carter

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Re: 66% of Millenials have nothing saved for retirement; reddit comments
« Reply #32 on: August 17, 2018, 06:11:25 AM »
I still only skimmed over this stuff but interestingly, if you backtrack from the reddit thread to the actual article to the actual report - the report starts by talking about Millenials as those born between 1981 and 1991 (making the youngest millenials 27), then chooses to analyze a survey of "working Millenials between the ages of 21 and 32." It's unclear to me if their intro info referencing millenials is about the group aged 27-37 or the group 21-32 .
I'm wondering if they meant "the cohort whose youngest member is 27 at time of publishing, but who were 21 when this survey was done six years ago."

WhiteTrashCash

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Re: 66% of Millenials have nothing saved for retirement; reddit comments
« Reply #33 on: August 17, 2018, 07:49:38 AM »
On one hand, there seems to be less of a reason for Millennials to be terrible with money because everyone these days has a supercomputer in their pocket with access to all the knowledge in the entire world. But on the other hand, advertising is much harder to escape in the 21st century and Millennials are the ones who are targeted the most fiercely by it. I really do believe that advertising is at the heart of most of the social problems facing the Western World right now, because it is specifically designed to make people feel depressed and self-loathing to manipulate them into spending money instead of saving. I was shocked with how easy it was to save up a significant amount of money once I nearly completely eliminated advertising from my life.

Just Joe

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Re: 66% of Millenials have nothing saved for retirement; reddit comments
« Reply #34 on: August 17, 2018, 08:46:28 AM »
On one hand, there seems to be less of a reason for Millennials to be terrible with money because everyone these days has a supercomputer in their pocket with access to all the knowledge in the entire world. But on the other hand, advertising is much harder to escape in the 21st century and Millennials are the ones who are targeted the most fiercely by it. I really do believe that advertising is at the heart of most of the social problems facing the Western World right now, because it is specifically designed to make people feel depressed and self-loathing to manipulate them into spending money instead of saving. I was shocked with how easy it was to save up a significant amount of money once I nearly completely eliminated advertising from my life.

You speak the truth there. Avoiding advertising has been a priority at our house too.

Dabnasty

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Re: 66% of Millenials have nothing saved for retirement; reddit comments
« Reply #35 on: August 17, 2018, 08:50:25 AM »
On one hand, there seems to be less of a reason for Millennials to be terrible with money because everyone these days has a supercomputer in their pocket with access to all the knowledge in the entire world. But on the other hand, advertising is much harder to escape in the 21st century and Millennials are the ones who are targeted the most fiercely by it. I really do believe that advertising is at the heart of most of the social problems facing the Western World right now, because it is specifically designed to make people feel depressed and self-loathing to manipulate them into spending money instead of saving. I was shocked with how easy it was to save up a significant amount of money once I nearly completely eliminated advertising from my life.

I don't have the data to back it up on hand but I have seen numbers that suggest both "hands" are true. Those who have an interest in frugality learn about it with relative ease due to all the available information, while those who don't make it a priority fall for the tactics of advertising and sink faster than their predecessors. Taking the average may not show the effects of this but there are more people at either extreme. Mustachians retiring in their 30's & 40's while others can't imagine ever having enough to retire is a good example of this.

e34bb098

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Re: 66% of Millenials have nothing saved for retirement; reddit comments
« Reply #36 on: August 17, 2018, 10:19:45 AM »
Because mass media loves a good story, and us Millennials ought to be scapegoated. /s

GenX got plenty of scapegoating when they were the same age.  Even now they are still considered a slacker generation.
Proud member of Gen X here. The mention of slackers reminded me of something that I hadn't thought about in a while. I went to the University of Texas. The Art Linklater movie "Slackers" came out while I was there and a year later he was filming Dazed and Confused (several of the same actors in both movies). I was a senior and worked at a video game arcade and pool hall and spent many hours playing pool with them when they had breaks from filming. I remember it was mostly the younger ones (my age) like Parker Posey, Rory Cochrane, and Jason London. I should put this in the thread "What have you done that no one else has..."

Richard Linklater.

Art LinkLETTER is a little older than Gen-X. :D
« Last Edit: August 17, 2018, 12:31:09 PM by e34bb098 »

Spiffy

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Re: 66% of Millenials have nothing saved for retirement; reddit comments
« Reply #37 on: August 17, 2018, 12:15:07 PM »
Because mass media loves a good story, and us Millennials ought to be scapegoated. /s

GenX got plenty of scapegoating when they were the same age.  Even now they are still considered a slacker generation.
Proud member of Gen X here. The mention of slackers reminded me of something that I hadn't thought about in a while. I went to the University of Texas. The Art Linklater movie "Slackers" came out while I was there and a year later he was filming Dazed and Confused (several of the same actors in both movies). I was a senior and worked at a video game arcade and pool hall and spent many hours playing pool with them when they had breaks from filming. I remember it was mostly the younger ones (my age) like Parker Posey, Rory Cochrane, and Jason London. I should put this in the thread "What have you done that no one else has..."

Richard Linklater.

Art LinkLETTER is a litter old than Gen-X. :D
Doh! Yep, I meant Richard. Thanks.

galliver

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Re: 66% of Millenials have nothing saved for retirement; reddit comments
« Reply #38 on: August 17, 2018, 01:52:29 PM »
Just want to add that, whatever you call it, the generation that's 22-35 has generally attained more education than previous cohorts at similar ages, and this in the age of higher-than-ever-before tuition rates. So, a larger proportion of us than of previous generations were in school until a later age, at best making a pittance (part time, on a stipend) and at worst getting further into debt. And then, presumably, trying to repay it.

And of the ones that didn't pursue further education, many either graduated into the 2008-2009 recession or were hit hard by it early in their careers. Not only were they unemployed or underemployed those years, but it's been found this can affect earnings potential for life.

Can we talk about Boomers who are reaching retirement age without having saved for it instead?

Just Joe

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Re: 66% of Millenials have nothing saved for retirement; reddit comments
« Reply #39 on: August 20, 2018, 09:13:04 AM »
All these problems in the age of the internet. Once upon a time all a person had to reference was the library and hopefully books that were relevant to their needs.

GuitarStv

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Re: 66% of Millenials have nothing saved for retirement; reddit comments
« Reply #40 on: August 20, 2018, 10:12:25 AM »
All these problems in the age of the internet. Once upon a time all a person had to reference was the library and hopefully books that were relevant to their needs.

This is not quite as simplistic as you're laying it out to be.

Information is great.  I love having the thoughts and ideas of the whole world at my fingertips.  But information overload is paralyzing and counterproductive.  Sifting through that information isn't easy.  It's possible to find bad advice on any subject you look up.  In pre-internet times people had the problem of finding information . . . but you could pretty reliably go to the library, find something in a book, and believe it.  In modern times people have the problem of filtering through tremendous quantities of information and figuring out which bits are worthy of belief.  I'd actually argue that this can actually make things more difficult for someone without a grounding in science, logic, and rational thinking to learn.

ender

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Re: 66% of Millenials have nothing saved for retirement; reddit comments
« Reply #41 on: August 20, 2018, 12:37:11 PM »
All these problems in the age of the internet. Once upon a time all a person had to reference was the library and hopefully books that were relevant to their needs.

This is not quite as simplistic as you're laying it out to be.

Information is great.  I love having the thoughts and ideas of the whole world at my fingertips.  But information overload is paralyzing and counterproductive.  Sifting through that information isn't easy.  It's possible to find bad advice on any subject you look up.  In pre-internet times people had the problem of finding information . . . but you could pretty reliably go to the library, find something in a book, and believe it.  In modern times people have the problem of filtering through tremendous quantities of information and figuring out which bits are worthy of belief.  I'd actually argue that this can actually make things more difficult for someone without a grounding in science, logic, and rational thinking to learn.

+1

Access to information is primarily useful if it's "access to reliable information."

I have occasionally tried to trace a source for something that is "commonly known" online and realized it basically was a random place where some person posted it... and then that information got copy/pastad all over the Internet to the point where it's "commonly known" -- even though the original source was just a one off thing.

libertarian4321

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Re: 66% of Millenials have nothing saved for retirement; reddit comments
« Reply #42 on: August 20, 2018, 06:30:17 PM »
How much money do you really need if you are living in your Mom's basement and she's still feeding you and doing your laundry? 

As long as you make enough money at your part time job to pay for your iPhone, Starbucks, and your Fortnite gear, you'll be fine.

You just need to start saving when you hit 40, so you'll have enough money saved up to pay someone to take care of you when your Mom gets too old to do it.

MrOnyx

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Re: 66% of Millenials have nothing saved for retirement; reddit comments
« Reply #43 on: August 21, 2018, 02:02:04 AM »
How much money do you really need if you are living in your Mom's basement and she's still feeding you and doing your laundry? 

As long as you make enough money at your part time job to pay for your iPhone, Starbucks, and your Fortnite gear, you'll be fine.

You just need to start saving when you hit 40, so you'll have enough money saved up to pay someone to take care of you when your Mom gets too old to do it.

We're straying into stereotypes here. Yes, many Millennials are young adults who still live with their parents, but there are also Millennials aged 35+ with a mortgage and kids.

While we're dealing with stereotypes, you appear to think Millennials are younger than they actually are - especially with that Fortnite comment. Obviously people of all ages play that game, but it is most popular among Gen Z, (or the iGen, or whatever you want to call them) actually; the cohort after Millennials, and in many cases, the children of Millennials. This has already been discussed at length further up, though, of course.

Bottom line: there are no teenage Millennials anymore; I'm among the youngest of Millennials by definition and I'm approaching my mid-twenties. Fortnite is popular primarily among teenagers.

Just Joe

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Re: 66% of Millenials have nothing saved for retirement; reddit comments
« Reply #44 on: August 21, 2018, 07:51:30 AM »
All these problems in the age of the internet. Once upon a time all a person had to reference was the library and hopefully books that were relevant to their needs.

This is not quite as simplistic as you're laying it out to be.

Information is great.  I love having the thoughts and ideas of the whole world at my fingertips.  But information overload is paralyzing and counterproductive.  Sifting through that information isn't easy.  It's possible to find bad advice on any subject you look up.  In pre-internet times people had the problem of finding information . . . but you could pretty reliably go to the library, find something in a book, and believe it.  In modern times people have the problem of filtering through tremendous quantities of information and figuring out which bits are worthy of belief.  I'd actually argue that this can actually make things more difficult for someone without a grounding in science, logic, and rational thinking to learn.

You're right but I run into a fair number of people who don't even TRY to look for the answer. I've been on the internet for 25 years now. Just like learning where the indexes and catalogs are in a library, a person can build a portfolio of websites that they trust and others they avoid at all costs. Also, its simple to look at a website and temper the info you get from them a little b/c they are trying to sell the visitor a batch of services. The sales pitch rather than the technician's perspective.

I still get frustrated with people who won't try. My car is making this noise. My taxes... Cooking is hard... Home repair - ugh... Can't adjust my bike...

Was helping my eldest teen with a car problem over the weekend. Didn't have a name for the broken part. I suggested they look that part up on Rock Auto and see if the picture and the item matched. Yep, it was a voltage regulator. With that knowledge (clue), more searches can lead to more detailed info like how to test it.

GuitarStv

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Re: 66% of Millenials have nothing saved for retirement; reddit comments
« Reply #45 on: August 21, 2018, 08:13:52 AM »
All these problems in the age of the internet. Once upon a time all a person had to reference was the library and hopefully books that were relevant to their needs.

This is not quite as simplistic as you're laying it out to be.

Information is great.  I love having the thoughts and ideas of the whole world at my fingertips.  But information overload is paralyzing and counterproductive.  Sifting through that information isn't easy.  It's possible to find bad advice on any subject you look up.  In pre-internet times people had the problem of finding information . . . but you could pretty reliably go to the library, find something in a book, and believe it.  In modern times people have the problem of filtering through tremendous quantities of information and figuring out which bits are worthy of belief.  I'd actually argue that this can actually make things more difficult for someone without a grounding in science, logic, and rational thinking to learn.

You're right but I run into a fair number of people who don't even TRY to look for the answer. I've been on the internet for 25 years now. Just like learning where the indexes and catalogs are in a library, a person can build a portfolio of websites that they trust and others they avoid at all costs. Also, its simple to look at a website and temper the info you get from them a little b/c they are trying to sell the visitor a batch of services. The sales pitch rather than the technician's perspective.

I still get frustrated with people who won't try. My car is making this noise. My taxes... Cooking is hard... Home repair - ugh... Can't adjust my bike...

Was helping my eldest teen with a car problem over the weekend. Didn't have a name for the broken part. I suggested they look that part up on Rock Auto and see if the picture and the item matched. Yep, it was a voltage regulator. With that knowledge (clue), more searches can lead to more detailed info like how to test it.

I agree with you for the most part . . . with the caveat that this is an approach probably best to follow for people who have a certain baseline of wealth.

For example, I can (and have) killed a few weekends learning to do home repairs.  Initially when I was learning stuff I'd often do things wrong.  I'd occasionally do things really wrong, waste money, have to rip apart the stuff I've spent a lot of time and effort on to redo it properly.  No biggie . . . in the long run learning this stuff saved me money, and I have a basic knowledge of doing repairs that my dad passed on to me so catastrophic screw ups don't happen all that often.

If somebody's super tight for time and money and didn't have a dad who showed them how to do work around the house . . . I can easily see how someone would try something, screw it up, get really frustrated, and just give up on DIY for the rest of their life.  Your example with the car part fits in this too.  I've found parts online that looked like they would be a perfect replacement for what I needed . . . but missed one tiny, crucial detail and ended up wasting money.  No big deal, because I'm rich and patient.  If I'm barely keeping my head above water financially, this would be quite a different situation.  My point being . . . it can cost a lot of money and time to begin the process of filtering out the good from the bad.  Not everyone has that luxury.

Paul der Krake

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Re: 66% of Millenials have nothing saved for retirement; reddit comments
« Reply #46 on: August 21, 2018, 08:34:06 AM »
If somebody's super tight for time and money and didn't have a dad who showed them how to do work around the house . . . I can easily see how someone would try something, screw it up, get really frustrated, and just give up on DIY for the rest of their life.  Your example with the car part fits in this too.  I've found parts online that looked like they would be a perfect replacement for what I needed . . . but missed one tiny, crucial detail and ended up wasting money.  No big deal, because I'm rich and patient.  If I'm barely keeping my head above water financially, this would be quite a different situation.  My point being . . . it can cost a lot of money and time to begin the process of filtering out the good from the bad.  Not everyone has that luxury.
Yes, I've done that too, including when I was neither rich nor patient. It's frustrating and stress-inducing, for sure.

People get shit on cellphones and eating out because it's such an easy thing to fix, has a potential downside of nearly 0 and a potential upside of hundreds of dollars per year, and not acting on that information shows a pattern of "I don't care to know better". Car repairs are not like that: fucking up has very serious downsides.

Just Joe

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Re: 66% of Millenials have nothing saved for retirement; reddit comments
« Reply #47 on: August 22, 2018, 09:35:26 AM »
All these problems in the age of the internet. Once upon a time all a person had to reference was the library and hopefully books that were relevant to their needs.

This is not quite as simplistic as you're laying it out to be.

Information is great.  I love having the thoughts and ideas of the whole world at my fingertips.  But information overload is paralyzing and counterproductive.  Sifting through that information isn't easy.  It's possible to find bad advice on any subject you look up.  In pre-internet times people had the problem of finding information . . . but you could pretty reliably go to the library, find something in a book, and believe it.  In modern times people have the problem of filtering through tremendous quantities of information and figuring out which bits are worthy of belief.  I'd actually argue that this can actually make things more difficult for someone without a grounding in science, logic, and rational thinking to learn.

You're right but I run into a fair number of people who don't even TRY to look for the answer. I've been on the internet for 25 years now. Just like learning where the indexes and catalogs are in a library, a person can build a portfolio of websites that they trust and others they avoid at all costs. Also, its simple to look at a website and temper the info you get from them a little b/c they are trying to sell the visitor a batch of services. The sales pitch rather than the technician's perspective.

I still get frustrated with people who won't try. My car is making this noise. My taxes... Cooking is hard... Home repair - ugh... Can't adjust my bike...

Was helping my eldest teen with a car problem over the weekend. Didn't have a name for the broken part. I suggested they look that part up on Rock Auto and see if the picture and the item matched. Yep, it was a voltage regulator. With that knowledge (clue), more searches can lead to more detailed info like how to test it.

I agree with you for the most part . . . with the caveat that this is an approach probably best to follow for people who have a certain baseline of wealth.

For example, I can (and have) killed a few weekends learning to do home repairs.  Initially when I was learning stuff I'd often do things wrong.  I'd occasionally do things really wrong, waste money, have to rip apart the stuff I've spent a lot of time and effort on to redo it properly.  No biggie . . . in the long run learning this stuff saved me money, and I have a basic knowledge of doing repairs that my dad passed on to me so catastrophic screw ups don't happen all that often.

If somebody's super tight for time and money and didn't have a dad who showed them how to do work around the house . . . I can easily see how someone would try something, screw it up, get really frustrated, and just give up on DIY for the rest of their life.  Your example with the car part fits in this too.  I've found parts online that looked like they would be a perfect replacement for what I needed . . . but missed one tiny, crucial detail and ended up wasting money.  No big deal, because I'm rich and patient.  If I'm barely keeping my head above water financially, this would be quite a different situation.  My point being . . . it can cost a lot of money and time to begin the process of filtering out the good from the bad.  Not everyone has that luxury.

You are correct on all points. I've been that poor person. Going the DIY route b/c I was too poor to hire it out. In time a person begins to acquire the tools (so they don't need to buy more), the knowledge (to get it right the first time), and the skills (to make the process easy and painfree). Yes, I still make mistakes. Am learning to lace a bicycle wheel and true it this week for example. I have paid for this task in the past and its cost approaches the cost of a new wheel complete. Still, I know I'll need to do this many more times in life if I continue to put in lots of miles, go offroad with any regularity and even street ebikes are hard on spokes. 

I'd also argue that a basic awareness of a problem can guard against dishonesty on the repair technician's part.

I'm kicking myself this week b/c a recent HVAC repair that cost $850 was something I could have wholly done myself. Bad thermostat and later brittle copper thermostat wiring. Technician made two visits to fix one and then the other. Next time I will be switching contractors b/c I think the one I relied on is too expensive (hourly cost).
« Last Edit: August 22, 2018, 09:39:57 AM by Just Joe »