Author Topic: 6 Women, $270,000 of collective debt  (Read 25323 times)

Wexler

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 393
6 Women, $270,000 of collective debt
« on: October 05, 2016, 01:17:25 PM »
Reading this made my blood pressure go up, so now you all have to share my pain:

http://www.elle.com/life-love/a39373/financial-debt/

This one just made my eyes roll:

This past year, our finances have taken a couple of new hits. We took out $50,000 in student loans for my husband to go to grad school, in the hopes that an advanced degree will help him land a better job. Although he is a high achiever, he has been applying for jobs for six years and hasn't even been called back for an interview. A couple of months ago, I quit my job because the intense, depressing nature of my work was affecting my emotional health.

In order to stay afloat, I took out a portion of my retirement fund. I know everyone says not to do that, but I think it was a good gamble for me. I'm only 33, and to me it's worth it to make the investment into reducing our debt and growing my new business venture as a writer and publicist.


Oh god.  They are never going to get out of debt.  Why would you quit your job, drain a 401(k), and start a new business as a writer when you are in foreclosure???  Blood.pressure.spiking.

Making Cookies

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1648
Re: 6 Women, $270,000 of collective debt
« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2016, 01:22:39 PM »
Why tell the world about it???

lightmyfire

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 102
Re: 6 Women, $270,000 of collective debt
« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2016, 01:40:25 PM »
Yeah, there are some really, really poor financial decisions here. But to me what stuck out is the common refrain that financial know-how is not discussed in families or schools, leading to naive young people who think nothing of applying for multiple credit cards to get free t-shirts or taking out massive loans not understanding the devastation of interest rates. I can commiserate with this, as I was also once a naive 18 year old who never got a bit of financial advice and had to figure it all out the hard way.

SeaEhm

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 448
  • The Guilt is Real
Re: 6 Women, $270,000 of collective debt
« Reply #3 on: October 05, 2016, 07:50:58 PM »
Couldn't finish the story before posting this

Funniest thing is that they keep having KOHLs shopping ads there.

Update: As I went back to finish the article, the whole page turned into one giant ad! haha

One quote "So I began analyzing my habits. I'd been spending $1,500-$2,000 a month on food, shopping, and going out with friends."   While making $55k per year!


lhamo

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 9973
  • Location: Seattle
Re: 6 Women, $270,000 of collective debt
« Reply #4 on: October 05, 2016, 08:39:47 PM »
OMG, I practically had a panic attack just reading a couple of those.

Let me get this straight:

1)  Your are practically in foreclosure on your house, yet somehow you think it makes sense to rack up credit card charges like $900 on a TV at Best Buy and $800 to a bridal store?  You were 8 months pregnant when you got married -- sew something together out of pillow cases or something! 

2)  You buy a business for more than it is worth because you think it makes you cool and then buy a new car and hire more people to work than you really need because you think you are some kind of philanthropist making jobs for the poor?  And then you don't pay their employment taxes and run off on vacation and are surprised when the IRS agent shows up at your door?

3)  I can't remember the rest.  Those two threw me for a loop.  IS THIS SUPPOSED TO BE NORMAL?!?!?!?!  Why couldn't they have profiled at least ONE person who had her financial shit together?


HappierAtHome

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 8156
  • Location: Australia
Re: 6 Women, $270,000 of collective debt
« Reply #5 on: October 05, 2016, 08:51:22 PM »
I hate how they're implying that these particular women got into debt because of income inequality between genders. Um, no. They made some bad choices, THAT'S how they got into debt.

At least some of these women seem to be demonstrating insight into how they got themselves into the mess, and making choices that will help them get out.

Some of them are... well. Lhamo summed up the worst of it.

Sylly

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 267
Re: 6 Women, $270,000 of collective debt
« Reply #6 on: October 06, 2016, 12:18:18 AM »
Two of them mentioned how easy it was to get a credit card in college. I totally get that. That's how I got my first ones too. But, what they did next boggles my mind!

"I had six credit cards when I was a student, and I used them for everything from clothes to trips. It never occurred to me that it wouldn't be a good idea. I thought it was okay because I was making the minimum payments, plus $50-$100 extra, and not getting hit with late charges. I figured I'd pay it off in the future."

"I thought it was cool that I could swipe a card and they'd give me stuff. I honestly could not tell you what I bought—probably mostly clothes—and I doubt I own any of those things now. I eventually reached $15,000 in credit card debt."

Whaaaat? Is the concept that you don't buy something you don't have the money for such a foreign concept? Nobody sat me down and explained debts to me. Common sense dictates a credit card is not some magic card that allows you to get stuff for nothing. It never occurred to me to use my CCs for things I don't really need, or didn't have the money for!

marty998

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6544
  • Location: Sydney, Oz
Re: 6 Women, $270,000 of collective debt
« Reply #7 on: October 06, 2016, 12:51:40 AM »
Why tell the world about it???

She want to be a publicist...perhaps she's trying to generate publicity?

talltexan

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2748
Re: 6 Women, $270,000 of collective debt
« Reply #8 on: October 06, 2016, 07:26:37 AM »
Selling your business to one of your employees is sounding like a really great exit strategy...

Helvegen

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 542
  • Location: PNW
Re: 6 Women, $270,000 of collective debt
« Reply #9 on: October 06, 2016, 07:55:55 AM »
Why tell the world about it???

She want to be a publicist...perhaps she's trying to generate publicity?

I'm going to go with head pats. Wants other people to come out of the woodwork and say they were that dumb too and give her head pats for being so brave, writing this piece.

MrMoogle

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1118
  • Age: 34
  • Location: Huntsville, AL
Re: 6 Women, $270,000 of collective debt
« Reply #10 on: October 06, 2016, 08:53:09 AM »
The math on some of these aren't working out:

The first one: $13k max debt, she was paying $1200/month, but it would take her 15 years to pay off.  1200/month is $14.4k/year, so that must just be one card.  What's the total debt?

Quote
Considering that the average American household carries $132,086 in total debt, women are rightfully concerned
I'd never heard that statistic before.  If that's true, we've got to be in a bubble, unless it includes mortgages, then it's pretty useless. 

Looked it up, yes it includes mortgages.  It's also the average of people who have debt, so people who don't have any aren't included.

Gondolin

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 571
  • Location: Northern VA
Re: 6 Women, $270,000 of collective debt
« Reply #11 on: October 06, 2016, 09:10:51 AM »
I have mixed feelings about this article. I liked that it covered the gamut of financial mistakes from the large to the small but, focused on empowerment and how people where helping themselves. This is what the debt ridden need to read, not another whining article about how crazy personal debt is "normal" and someone else's fault - the government's fault, the bank's fault, society's fault.

What I didn't like was the unnecessary rhetorical whiplash I got reading the intro paragraph. I mean, women are somehow oppressed by the patriarchy into having more debt but, that debt then "generates a greater emotional toll (than on men)".... Because women are delicate flowers who can't handle finance? You can't claim oppression and then in the next sentence play to a stereotype created by the oppressor!

Anyway, good article focused on empowerment. The only thing missing was a successful bankruptcy. A few of those interviewed likely could have benefited from a chapter 7.

radram

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 956
Re: 6 Women, $270,000 of collective debt
« Reply #12 on: October 06, 2016, 09:28:22 AM »
I liked " we only pull out the credit card for big purchases such as airline tickets. "

with $50,000 in debt.  Why are you going ANYWHERE?

When the market turned, we had 0 debt and still had STA-cations for 3 years in order to continue our high savings rate.

conpewter

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 39
  • Age: 39
  • Location: Illinois
Re: 6 Women, $270,000 of collective debt
« Reply #13 on: October 06, 2016, 09:40:55 AM »
snip...

Whaaaat? Is the concept that you don't buy something you don't have the money for such a foreign concept? Nobody sat me down and explained debts to me. Common sense dictates a credit card is not some magic card that allows you to get stuff for nothing. It never occurred to me to use my CCs for things I don't really need, or didn't have the money for!

Reminds me of the SNL skit "Don't buy stuff you can't afford"  I thought it was a parody but for these folks it seems closer to real life
http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/dont-buy-stuff/n12020

Making Cookies

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1648
Re: 6 Women, $270,000 of collective debt
« Reply #14 on: October 06, 2016, 09:48:41 AM »
Why tell the world about it???

She want to be a publicist...perhaps she's trying to generate publicity?

I'm going to go with head pats. Wants other people to come out of the woodwork and say they were that dumb too and give her head pats for being so brave, writing this piece.

It isn't brave - it'll be haunting if those are their real names.

Making Cookies

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1648
Re: 6 Women, $270,000 of collective debt
« Reply #15 on: October 06, 2016, 09:49:53 AM »
Because women are delicate flowers who can't handle finance? You can't claim oppression and then in the next sentence play to a stereotype created by the oppressor!

Anyway, good article focused on empowerment. The only thing missing was a successful bankruptcy. A few of those interviewed likely could have benefited from a chapter 7.

If they are so delicate then maybe they shouldn't manage their own finances. ;)

TexasRunner

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 927
  • Age: 28
  • Location: Somewhere in Tejas
Re: 6 Women, $270,000 of collective debt
« Reply #16 on: October 06, 2016, 10:40:53 AM »
Quote
...But it's not only women's earning power that's taking a hit. Women also end up owing more money than men do. Sixty-three percent of women ages 18-24 carry credit card debt, compared to just 36 percent of men the same age. Sixty-eight percent of women graduate college with student loan debt, versus 63 percent of men. What's more, our financial challenges take a greater emotional toll:...

How the hell is the wage gap between men and women somehow a causation of higher debt among women...   DONT BUY SHIT YOU CAN'T AFFORD!!! 

Holy crap people are stupid.

Gondolin

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 571
  • Location: Northern VA
Re: 6 Women, $270,000 of collective debt
« Reply #17 on: October 06, 2016, 11:21:38 AM »
Quote
How the hell is the wage gap between men and women somehow a causation of higher debt among women...

The first paragraph is a masterwork of unrelated sentences and unsupported statistics. The article would be much improved if it simply began with, "Many Americans struggle with personal finance. Here are a few interviews with women who have sunk beneath the weight of debt and what they've done to get back in control of their lives."

mm1970

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7031
Re: 6 Women, $270,000 of collective debt
« Reply #18 on: October 06, 2016, 01:30:58 PM »
Reading this made my blood pressure go up, so now you all have to share my pain:

http://www.elle.com/life-love/a39373/financial-debt/

This one just made my eyes roll:

This past year, our finances have taken a couple of new hits. We took out $50,000 in student loans for my husband to go to grad school, in the hopes that an advanced degree will help him land a better job. Although he is a high achiever, he has been applying for jobs for six years and hasn't even been called back for an interview. A couple of months ago, I quit my job because the intense, depressing nature of my work was affecting my emotional health.

In order to stay afloat, I took out a portion of my retirement fund. I know everyone says not to do that, but I think it was a good gamble for me. I'm only 33, and to me it's worth it to make the investment into reducing our debt and growing my new business venture as a writer and publicist.


Oh god.  They are never going to get out of debt.  Why would you quit your job, drain a 401(k), and start a new business as a writer when you are in foreclosure???  Blood.pressure.spiking.
That was painful.

MissNancyPryor

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 560
  • Age: 50
  • Location: Northwest USA
  • The Stewardess is Flying the Plane!
Re: 6 Women, $270,000 of collective debt
« Reply #19 on: October 06, 2016, 03:12:56 PM »
One of those women could be Penelope Trunk except she would use her real name. 

sirdoug007

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 587
  • Age: 39
  • Location: Houston, TX
Re: 6 Women, $270,000 of collective debt
« Reply #20 on: October 06, 2016, 04:11:40 PM »
Quote
I was always taught that it was better to purchase a home than to rent. My parents never owned a house, so that was one of my goals when I graduated from college. In 2007, at the height of the housing bubble, I paid an inflated $270,000 for a two-bedroom condo. I was making $40,000 as a probation officer, so I knew it would be a stretch, but since I received a guaranteed $10,000 pay grade increase every year, capped at $80,000, I figured that in the future I would be able to afford it. Unfortunately, my salary never caught up.

Between the mortgage and homeowner's association (HOA) fees, I was paying $2,200 a month, and my income was around $1,550. I also had a car payment and insurance. I wasn't shopping, vacationing, or partying—I just didn't have enough to live the lifestyle I was living, even though it wasn't very grand to me.

What.  The.  Fuck.

She bought a condo and didn't figure out until afterwords that she didn't actually make enough money to cover the mortgage and HOA payments???

Saskatchewstachian

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 204
  • Age: 28
  • Location: SK
Re: 6 Women, $270,000 of collective debt
« Reply #21 on: October 06, 2016, 04:30:34 PM »
This one threw me for a loop

"Next, we figured out what I was buying. It wasn't clothes and shoes, but basic life expenses, like baby supplies and wedding gifts. It was comforting to see that I didn't have a spending problem"

I get that everyone wants to celebrate other peoples weddings but if it is second in your list behind baby supplies something is wrong or they are attending an obscene amount of weddings per year.

therethere

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 760
Re: 6 Women, $270,000 of collective debt
« Reply #22 on: October 06, 2016, 04:39:09 PM »
Quote
I was always taught that it was better to purchase a home than to rent. My parents never owned a house, so that was one of my goals when I graduated from college. In 2007, at the height of the housing bubble, I paid an inflated $270,000 for a two-bedroom condo. I was making $40,000 as a probation officer, so I knew it would be a stretch, but since I received a guaranteed $10,000 pay grade increase every year, capped at $80,000, I figured that in the future I would be able to afford it. Unfortunately, my salary never caught up.

Between the mortgage and homeowner's association (HOA) fees, I was paying $2,200 a month, and my income was around $1,550. I also had a car payment and insurance. I wasn't shopping, vacationing, or partying—I just didn't have enough to live the lifestyle I was living, even though it wasn't very grand to me.

What.  The.  Fuck.

She bought a condo and didn't figure out until afterwords that she didn't actually make enough money to cover the mortgage and HOA payments???

That lady is a trainwreck and her husband is oblivious AF. Not only did they have a condo they couldn't pay for they bought a house after they got married. Because naturally marriage, house, baby. And in Washington DC no less!

This article, while the first paragraph was trying to relate it to the gender pay cap really just makes women look like frivilous idiots... Of course there is a giant pay gap if you are related women to these clueless people.

La Bibliotecaria Feroz

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4683
Re: 6 Women, $270,000 of collective debt
« Reply #23 on: October 06, 2016, 04:42:18 PM »
Quote
I was always taught that it was better to purchase a home than to rent. My parents never owned a house, so that was one of my goals when I graduated from college. In 2007, at the height of the housing bubble, I paid an inflated $270,000 for a two-bedroom condo. I was making $40,000 as a probation officer, so I knew it would be a stretch, but since I received a guaranteed $10,000 pay grade increase every year, capped at $80,000, I figured that in the future I would be able to afford it. Unfortunately, my salary never caught up.

Between the mortgage and homeowner's association (HOA) fees, I was paying $2,200 a month, and my income was around $1,550. I also had a car payment and insurance. I wasn't shopping, vacationing, or partying—I just didn't have enough to live the lifestyle I was living, even though it wasn't very grand to me.

What.  The.  Fuck.

She bought a condo and didn't figure out until afterwords that she didn't actually make enough money to cover the mortgage and HOA payments???

That lady is a trainwreck and her husband is oblivious AF. Not only did they have a condo they couldn't pay for they bought a house after they got married. Because naturally marriage, house, baby. And in Washington DC no less!

This article, while the first paragraph was trying to relate it to the gender pay cap really just makes women look like frivilous idiots... Of course there is a giant pay gap if you are related women to these clueless people.

This one was the hardest to read. They just keep digging in deeper and deeper.

Many of the others made youthful mistakes and have actual plans to get out and are working hard and busting their asses. This one is still living in fantasy land. Only buying clothes on sale??!!

Gondolin

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 571
  • Location: Northern VA
Re: 6 Women, $270,000 of collective debt
« Reply #24 on: October 06, 2016, 05:00:04 PM »
Quote
This one was the hardest to read. They just keep digging in deeper and deeper

Yeah, if $45,000 CC plus $20,000 student loan plus $3000 back taxes with no job and two kids is "not out of the woods but, in a clearing", Nikita needs to declare bankruptcy yesterday. Though she'll likely end right back in the hole with her apparent lack of awareness.

(Also, only in 2007 could you be approved for a $200-250k mortgage on $40k salary.)

therethere

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 760
Re: 6 Women, $270,000 of collective debt
« Reply #25 on: October 06, 2016, 05:02:16 PM »
Also, it doesn't make any sense. It says they took out 50k in student loans but the balance is now 20k. I highly doubt they paid down 30k! More like transferred it to a CC?

Blindsquirrel

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 657
  • Age: 2
  • Location: Flyover country
Re: 6 Women, $270,000 of collective debt
« Reply #26 on: October 06, 2016, 07:52:44 PM »
 WTF to the zillionth power. My cat is smarter about kibble than those oafs are with their families fricking roof over their GD heads?   



 W. T.  F.

Torran

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 375
Re: 6 Women, $270,000 of collective debt
« Reply #27 on: October 07, 2016, 03:45:26 AM »
"The urge [to buy a plane ticket] is especially strong right now because I paid off one of my cards and have a $2,000 limit available."

She is viewing a paid off card as a fresh new batch of £2000 spending money. W the actual F.

I mean, at least they're *trying* in various ways to take responsibility for their debt.... I guess. This is all so fucked up though. I could hardly believe what I was reading. They must be smarter than this.

Fearthebait

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 21
Re: 6 Women, $270,000 of collective debt
« Reply #28 on: October 07, 2016, 05:50:58 AM »
I stopped after the story about buying the condo on the 40k salary. How as a single individual do you continue dating someone with that much debt and then decide it's a good idea to marry them after seeing no improvement in their behavior? I just feel bad for this husband who was apparently the "Frugal" one...

Making Cookies

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1648
Re: 6 Women, $270,000 of collective debt
« Reply #29 on: October 07, 2016, 07:30:44 AM »
Reading this made my blood pressure go up, so now you all have to share my pain:

http://www.elle.com/life-love/a39373/financial-debt/

This one just made my eyes roll:

This past year, our finances have taken a couple of new hits. We took out $50,000 in student loans for my husband to go to grad school, in the hopes that an advanced degree will help him land a better job. Although he is a high achiever, he has been applying for jobs for six years and hasn't even been called back for an interview. A couple of months ago, I quit my job because the intense, depressing nature of my work was affecting my emotional health.

In order to stay afloat, I took out a portion of my retirement fund. I know everyone says not to do that, but I think it was a good gamble for me. I'm only 33, and to me it's worth it to make the investment into reducing our debt and growing my new business venture as a writer and publicist.


Oh god.  They are never going to get out of debt.  Why would you quit your job, drain a 401(k), and start a new business as a writer when you are in foreclosure???  Blood.pressure.spiking.
That was painful.

Can't find a job for SIX years? Or can't find a better job i.e. working something but can't find an upgrade? If he can't land a job in six years then three needs to be some serious self-study on interviewing and being personable. Maybe he has one of those degrees in something that has no real value to anyone but the professor and the students.

Sounds like someone I once knew who couldn't get a job b/c they didn't start their searches each day until about 3:30 PM b/c they couldn't haul themselves out of bed at a reasonable hour (watching late night TV).

Travis

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2651
  • Location: South Korea
Re: 6 Women, $270,000 of collective debt
« Reply #30 on: October 07, 2016, 08:34:47 AM »
"The urge [to buy a plane ticket] is especially strong right now because I paid off one of my cards and have a $2,000 limit available."

She is viewing a paid off card as a fresh new batch of £2000 spending money. W the actual F.

I mean, at least they're *trying* in various ways to take responsibility for their debt.... I guess. This is all so fucked up though. I could hardly believe what I was reading. They must be smarter than this.

She still doesn't understand the basic concept of what a credit card is an how debt works. She sees her line of credit as actual money.  I can see that (misguided) logic when you're young and are new to credit, but after going through years of dealing with the debt you still feel that way?

dividend

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 45
Re: 6 Women, $270,000 of collective debt
« Reply #31 on: October 07, 2016, 12:07:11 PM »
Quote
We have a couple of trips coming up, and set up a payment plan so we know exactly how we will pay them off in a given time frame.

I didn't realize until recently that this is the way that most people travel.  I have never in my life taken trips without having the money accrued ahead of time, so I assumed that most people did the same thing.  But hearing the things my friends say, I don't think most of them are travelling with the cash in hand, that that's the normal.  They already give my husband and I grief about the number of trips we take and the cool places we go - I now assume that their heads would explode if they new we weren't using debt to do it. 

I can't imagine enjoying a vacation if I didn't know how I would pay for it when I got home.  I would be stressed the whole time!

onehair

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 372
Re: 6 Women, $270,000 of collective debt
« Reply #32 on: October 07, 2016, 12:15:48 PM »
I agree completely.  Whenever I travel I buy round trip tickets then price hotel rooms depending on time of year then allocate spending money I don't want to be without or worrying about anything while out of town.....And I do use my debit since I don't have a real credit card...

LivlongnProsper

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 73
  • Age: 47
  • It's a new day, anything is possible.
Re: 6 Women, $270,000 of collective debt
« Reply #33 on: October 07, 2016, 12:45:34 PM »
"Next, we figured out what I was buying. It wasn't clothes and shoes, but basic life expenses, like baby supplies and wedding gifts. It was comforting to see that I didn't have a spending problem; I just needed to understand how I was using my money."

It's as easy as that. Wow.

boyerbt

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 321
  • Location: Ohio
Re: 6 Women, $270,000 of collective debt
« Reply #34 on: October 07, 2016, 02:23:30 PM »
Quote
We have a couple of trips coming up, and set up a payment plan so we know exactly how we will pay them off in a given time frame.

I didn't realize until recently that this is the way that most people travel.  I have never in my life taken trips without having the money accrued ahead of time, so I assumed that most people did the same thing.  But hearing the things my friends say, I don't think most of them are travelling with the cash in hand, that that's the normal.  They already give my husband and I grief about the number of trips we take and the cool places we go - I now assume that their heads would explode if they new we weren't using debt to do it. 

I can't imagine enjoying a vacation if I didn't know how I would pay for it when I got home.  I would be stressed the whole time!

+1

The collective MMM group is different from the majority and so our thought process is not the same as everyone else.

I have to say this every now and again when discussing different money topics with my girlfriend as she has never borrowed money. So because of this, there are instances where she cannot fathom how an issue involving money can come up or how people can travel on debt and I have to say "you (now we) are not the norm, most people are deeply in debt."

LeRainDrop

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1841
Re: 6 Women, $270,000 of collective debt
« Reply #35 on: October 07, 2016, 02:27:52 PM »
"Next, we figured out what I was buying. It wasn't clothes and shoes, but basic life expenses, like baby supplies and wedding gifts. It was comforting to see that I didn't have a spending problem; I just needed to understand how I was using my money."

It's as easy as that. Wow.

That part was preceded by, "I thought I was charging about $600, but . . . it was closer to $1,100."  So, she's actually charging 2x the amount that she thought she was, and then concluded that "I didn't have a spending problem."  WTF?

I stopped after the story about buying the condo on the 40k salary. How as a single individual do you continue dating someone with that much debt and then decide it's a good idea to marry them after seeing no improvement in their behavior? I just feel bad for this husband who was apparently the "Frugal" one...

Yeah, Nikita Montgomery, 33, seems like a total train wreck.  She ends her story saying, "It has been a longer road for my husband than for me. I came from a single-parent household where my mom at one time had to support two kids on $18,000. He grew up in a dual income household with parents who were able to buy him new clothes and a car. He is accustomed to a certain level of stability that being in debt doesn't give you. He is also a big saver and is used to having a cushion. What's more, his confidence as a provider took a hit. I laugh with him to make him feel better and tell him it's not his fault because he was never broke until he married me."  That last sentence, I'm just like, yes, it really is your fault.  Poor husband dude.

"The urge [to buy a plane ticket] is especially strong right now because I paid off one of my cards and have a $2,000 limit available."

She is viewing a paid off card as a fresh new batch of £2000 spending money. W the actual F.

IMO, this lady, Anne Farley, 25, was the most reformed of the whole panel of women.  She's on mint, budgeting, and reducing spending, so at least headed in the right direction.  It sounded to me like she'd made a lot of positive changes to get rid of spendy habits.

MrsPete

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3519
Re: 6 Women, $270,000 of collective debt
« Reply #36 on: October 07, 2016, 02:40:02 PM »
Items that stand out:

- I've had some of my debt for so long that I have no idea what I'm even paying off anymore.
- It never occurred to me that it wouldn't be a good idea.
- I couldn't buy new outfits because I was paying off credit cards for items I charged 20 years ago.
- I thought it was cool that I could swipe a card and they'd give me stuff.
- I honestly could not tell you what I bought
- When I was in college ... I simply didn't understand how it all worked
- he had $85,000 in student loans from film school ... but his auto-pay mistakenly got cancelled, and his loan went into default.
- The other is a college rewards loan that allowed me to rent my SUV.
- We've budgeted $400-$500 per season on clothes for our whole family
- I figured that in the future I would be able to afford it.
- I was paying $2,200 a month, and my income was around $1,550.
- My husband had to get a new car, our insurance premiums went up, and we had to buy a new couch
- paying off my David's Bridal $800 debt helped
- Treating myself to a cup of coffee at Starbucks was my one indulgence
- I'm not comfortable shopping at consignment stores
-  he has been applying for jobs for six years and hasn't even been called back for an interview
- Instead of restructuring and raising prices, I simply continued with business as usual.
- It still hadn't registered exactly how big of a deal this was
- mostly from a trip to Europe in my early twenties
- I didn't immediately tell my husband about the debt
- Next, we figured out what I was buying. It wasn't clothes and shoes, but basic life expenses, like baby supplies and wedding gifts.




marty998

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6544
  • Location: Sydney, Oz
Re: 6 Women, $270,000 of collective debt
« Reply #37 on: October 07, 2016, 06:29:53 PM »
"The urge [to buy a plane ticket] is especially strong right now because I paid off one of my cards and have a $2,000 limit available."

She is viewing a paid off card as a fresh new batch of £2000 spending money. W the actual F.

I mean, at least they're *trying* in various ways to take responsibility for their debt.... I guess. This is all so fucked up though. I could hardly believe what I was reading. They must be smarter than this.

She still doesn't understand the basic concept of what a credit card is an how debt works. She sees her line of credit as actual money.  I can see that (misguided) logic when you're young and are new to credit, but after going through years of dealing with the debt you still feel that way?

You've both misquoted her totally out of context. Here is the actual quote:

Quote
I try not to act impulsively, but it's challenging. My friends are always talking about the trips they're taking, and there have been so many times when I've wanted to book a plane ticket too. The urge is especially strong right now because I paid off one of my cards and have a $2,000 limit available.

When I do travel in the future, I'll budget my trips. I'm going to Dubai for a wedding because I was able to find an affordable flight. Leading up to the vacation, I estimated how much I would need for food, transportation, travel, and activities, and then set up a $200 monthly savings goal on Mint. Mint suggests areas where I can reduce my current spending in order to save enough.

She is not viewing it as $2000 available free cash. She understands the need to budget for it and save appropriately.

It's easy to judge, but give her credit for trying to turn things around.

SeaEhm

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 448
  • The Guilt is Real
Re: 6 Women, $270,000 of collective debt
« Reply #38 on: October 08, 2016, 08:27:13 AM »
Wait...$270k of debt including mortgages?

wow... they seem to be doing pretty well.

Syonyk

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3883
    • Syonyk's Project Blog
Re: 6 Women, $270,000 of collective debt
« Reply #39 on: October 08, 2016, 10:41:35 PM »
Why tell the world about it???

Ad revenue.  Hopefully.  Well, at least, for the author.  Or, at least, "exposure."  Exposure and $1.06 (depending on local sales tax) will buy you something from the dollar menu!

...leading to naive young people who think nothing of applying for multiple credit cards to get free t-shirts...

I, uh... yeah.  Freshman year.  Free tshirt.  Still have the card, though!  Discover, with 5% cash back (not sure what it was back then, like I'd have paid any attention).

She bought a condo and didn't figure out until afterwords that she didn't actually make enough money to cover the mortgage and HOA payments???

The better question is, "Why didn't the bank figure this out before giving her the money?"  Then you start to realize when this was, and why "giving mortgages to people who can't pay them, bundling them together, and pretending they're high grade investments" worked as well as it did come, oh, 2008 or so.

I stopped after the story about buying the condo on the 40k salary. How as a single individual do you continue dating someone with that much debt and then decide it's a good idea to marry them after seeing no improvement in their behavior? I just feel bad for this husband who was apparently the "Frugal" one...

No idea.  My wife is radically better at "not spending money" than I am, and I wouldn't have married her were this not the case.

And I do use my debit since I don't have a real credit card...

Travel is a good reason to use a credit card, IMO.  The authorize amounts on the cards tying up money for a while are annoying, and I've had my credit card stolen a few times, usually after travel.  "There's a couple grand of charges on my card that I didn't authorize, we're shipping you a new card" is slightly annoying, but "My bank account is a couple grand low and my rent check just bounced, along with the utility payment" would be radically more annoying to me.  I know I'm not liable for fraudulent charges, but there's a whole boatload of trouble my bank account missing a few grand could cause, and I'm not sure how my bank would view that, or how my landlord would have viewed that.

TheGrimSqueaker

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2201
  • Location: A desert wasteland, where none but the weird survive
  • www.theliveinlandlord.com
Re: 6 Women, $270,000 of collective debt
« Reply #40 on: October 10, 2016, 01:56:22 PM »
Did anyone else notice that the heaviest spenders profiled in the article were the married ones?

Seppia

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 616
  • Age: 39
  • Location: NYC
Re: 6 Women, $270,000 of collective debt
« Reply #41 on: October 10, 2016, 03:19:15 PM »
I stopped after reading this

"Then I met my husband. We fell in love, had a baby, and got married. It happened really fast, and we never had a financial talk. After our wedding, we wanted to get serious about laying down our foundation and buying a house. That's when he told me he had $85,000 in student loans from film school, which caught me by surprise."

So you fall in love, get married and have a baby with somebody you don't know shit about? Plus once you realize this you immediately have a second baby?


TheGrimSqueaker

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2201
  • Location: A desert wasteland, where none but the weird survive
  • www.theliveinlandlord.com
Re: 6 Women, $270,000 of collective debt
« Reply #42 on: October 10, 2016, 03:37:39 PM »
I stopped after reading this

"Then I met my husband. We fell in love, had a baby, and got married. It happened really fast, and we never had a financial talk. After our wedding, we wanted to get serious about laying down our foundation and buying a house. That's when he told me he had $85,000 in student loans from film school, which caught me by surprise."

So you fall in love, get married and have a baby with somebody you don't know shit about? Plus once you realize this you immediately have a second baby?

I call that "financial stupidity on both sides" and a reason why parents and extended family used to be involved in marriage negotiations.

MgoSam

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3643
  • Location: Minnesota
Re: 6 Women, $270,000 of collective debt
« Reply #43 on: October 10, 2016, 06:51:49 PM »
"I moved to Portland after college and got a job at a coffee shop. I'd worked there for two and a half years when the owner invited me to buy it. I was barely 25 and so excited about the prospect of being a business owner that I leapt at the opportunity. I didn't shop around to figure out what a fair price was and was too nervous to negotiate, so I ended up paying way too much.

At the same time, I thought that owning a business gave me license to spend more than I should. My biggest purchase was a new car."

Words escape me.

fattest_foot

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 734
Re: 6 Women, $270,000 of collective debt
« Reply #44 on: October 11, 2016, 09:15:21 AM »
Quote
We have a couple of trips coming up, and set up a payment plan so we know exactly how we will pay them off in a given time frame.

I didn't realize until recently that this is the way that most people travel.  I have never in my life taken trips without having the money accrued ahead of time, so I assumed that most people did the same thing.  But hearing the things my friends say, I don't think most of them are travelling with the cash in hand, that that's the normal.  They already give my husband and I grief about the number of trips we take and the cool places we go - I now assume that their heads would explode if they new we weren't using debt to do it. 

I can't imagine enjoying a vacation if I didn't know how I would pay for it when I got home.  I would be stressed the whole time!

Reading one of those where they said they paid their mortgage, utilities when they were about to be shut off, and essentially ignored the rest because it was too stressful to deal with is what got me.

I can't imagine going into work every day and having this specter of debt hanging over me every single day. What a miserable existence. And to think that it probably applies to a lot of my coworkers is depressing.

It's one thing when I think all of the people around me are just irresponsible because they drive brand new cars every 2-3 years and eat out 90% of their meals. It's another entirely when they're so far into debt that they're getting shut off notices on their utilities.

MgoSam

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3643
  • Location: Minnesota
Re: 6 Women, $270,000 of collective debt
« Reply #45 on: October 11, 2016, 10:04:47 AM »
Quote
We have a couple of trips coming up, and set up a payment plan so we know exactly how we will pay them off in a given time frame.

I didn't realize until recently that this is the way that most people travel.  I have never in my life taken trips without having the money accrued ahead of time, so I assumed that most people did the same thing.  But hearing the things my friends say, I don't think most of them are travelling with the cash in hand, that that's the normal.  They already give my husband and I grief about the number of trips we take and the cool places we go - I now assume that their heads would explode if they new we weren't using debt to do it. 

I can't imagine enjoying a vacation if I didn't know how I would pay for it when I got home.  I would be stressed the whole time!

Heck I don't even travel when I feel like I haven't earned it. My cousin invited me to his place for a few days and tried selling it by saying, "Just pay for the ticket, rest is on them," and I couldn't justify spending $400 for a ticket for 3 days of vacation when I have not been living as frugally as I should.

galliver

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1891
Re: 6 Women, $270,000 of collective debt
« Reply #46 on: October 11, 2016, 12:40:50 PM »
What I don't understand in all these stories (often seen in other "my financial history" narratives): "I didn't understand how [credit] worked." I realize that I paid more attention than most students in Algebra, which gave me both examples of and the skills to calculate compound interest. I realize that I was lucky to have a decent consumer economics class in high school and in college, to have my dad make me an authorized user on one of his cards and tell me "pay off anything you charge in full each month." But by that point I already felt like that was obvious and common sense. It just...baffles me  how you can get to age 18(+) without realizing that (a) loans need to be paid back (b) giant corporations don't give things away for free, so loans have to be paid back *with interest* and I guess (c) credit cards are loans. Kind of like you don't need a physics class or for your parents to sit you down to have a conversation about how "what goes up must come down," that you can't walk through walls, or that water freezes when it's cold and ice melts when it's warm. These are things you sort of pick up (not to say that focused education on financial literacy or physics classes are worthless...just that their absence seems like a bad excuse for completely thoughtless financial behavior...)

Kitsunegari

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 466
  • Location: Quebec, CA
  • Penny wise, pound foolish
Re: 6 Women, $270,000 of collective debt
« Reply #47 on: October 12, 2016, 09:38:09 AM »
Quote
Then I met my husband. We fell in love, had a baby, and got married. It happened really fast, and we never had a financial talk.

This made me facepalm so hard. You don't do all that stuff in a month, FFS! How is it possible that the subject of finance never came up before?! The hubs and I talk about that openly within a couple of months, and we went deeply into the subject *before* moving in together. It boggles my mind that people can be so hard in denial about something so important in everyday life.

ketchup

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4058
  • Age: 28
Re: 6 Women, $270,000 of collective debt
« Reply #48 on: October 12, 2016, 09:46:50 AM »
What I don't understand in all these stories (often seen in other "my financial history" narratives): "I didn't understand how [credit] worked." I realize that I paid more attention than most students in Algebra, which gave me both examples of and the skills to calculate compound interest. I realize that I was lucky to have a decent consumer economics class in high school and in college, to have my dad make me an authorized user on one of his cards and tell me "pay off anything you charge in full each month." But by that point I already felt like that was obvious and common sense. It just...baffles me  how you can get to age 18(+) without realizing that (a) loans need to be paid back (b) giant corporations don't give things away for free, so loans have to be paid back *with interest* and I guess (c) credit cards are loans. Kind of like you don't need a physics class or for your parents to sit you down to have a conversation about how "what goes up must come down," that you can't walk through walls, or that water freezes when it's cold and ice melts when it's warm. These are things you sort of pick up (not to say that focused education on financial literacy or physics classes are worthless...just that their absence seems like a bad excuse for completely thoughtless financial behavior...)
Yeah, seriously.  I could half-understand "feeling like it's worth it" or "it's really not that much extra" or "not feeling like there's a choice" but not fundamentally understanding that you're borrowing money and needing to repay it later with interest? WTF?

MgoSam

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3643
  • Location: Minnesota
Re: 6 Women, $270,000 of collective debt
« Reply #49 on: October 12, 2016, 09:48:23 AM »
Quote
Then I met my husband. We fell in love, had a baby, and got married. It happened really fast, and we never had a financial talk.

This made me facepalm so hard. You don't do all that stuff in a month, FFS! How is it possible that the subject of finance never came up before?! The hubs and I talk about that openly within a couple of months, and we went deeply into the subject *before* moving in together. It boggles my mind that people can be so hard in denial about something so important in everyday life.

She sounds like the "yada-yada" lady in Seinfeld.