Author Topic: 10 Things People Believe Will Make Them Feel Successful  (Read 8944 times)

Inaya

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10 Things People Believe Will Make Them Feel Successful
« on: November 08, 2017, 12:02:29 PM »

Aka keeping up with the Jonses through conspicuous spending.

https://www.entrepreneur.com/slideshow/304040

ixtap

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Re: 10 Things People Believe Will Make Them Feel Successful
« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2017, 12:05:55 PM »
I often forget that our society judges success by how you spend your money...

MgoSam

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Re: 10 Things People Believe Will Make Them Feel Successful
« Reply #2 on: November 08, 2017, 12:11:41 PM »
All of these are things that any yokel can get with maybe the exception of a bigger house as to get approved for a mortgage you need to have a job, credit score, and down payment.

Inaya

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Re: 10 Things People Believe Will Make Them Feel Successful
« Reply #3 on: November 08, 2017, 12:30:45 PM »
All of these are things that any yokel can get with maybe the exception of a bigger house as to get approved for a mortgage you need to have a job, credit score, and down payment.

Well it does say they'll feel successful. Nothing about actually being successful.

Travis

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Re: 10 Things People Believe Will Make Them Feel Successful
« Reply #4 on: November 08, 2017, 12:40:41 PM »
All of these are things that any yokel can get with maybe the exception of a bigger house as to get approved for a mortgage you need to have a job, credit score, and down payment.

Well it does say they'll feel successful. Nothing about actually being successful.

When the reality of keeping up with the Joneses bites back.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0HX4a5P8eE


#7 and #8 were perfectly reasonable goals, assuming you're smart about executing them.  The rest seemed to be "I want to have enough money to pay other people to live my life for me."  I'm sure there's an anti-mustachian comic up-forum that addresses the absurdity of "stressful job>need big house to relax>need to fill all the empty space>need housekeeper/gardener to maintain it>need fancy car to go with fancy house>need big vacation to get away from worrying about paying for expensive life>need more stressful job to pay for expensive life..." and on it goes. 

I want a car that looks clean on the outside and runs smoothly. I want a house large enough for my family and that hypothetical project I'll never get done.  I want to be a gardener when I retire.  If I wanted a housekeeper, I'd have enough kids to perpetually keep a teenager in the house.  I want to own the house outright.  I want to exercise whenever I feel like it, not at 5am before work because that's the only time available.  I don't need a personal trainer, I have friends and Youtube.  I want the overseas vacations, but I don't want to pay more for the hotel than I did the airfare. 
« Last Edit: November 08, 2017, 12:55:11 PM by Travis »

TheGrimSqueaker

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Re: 10 Things People Believe Will Make Them Feel Successful
« Reply #5 on: November 08, 2017, 02:05:43 PM »
I can see the bit with #8, travel. The rest-- what kind of nonsense is that?

I think we could start listing things that would make Mustachians feel successful, such as:

  • A VTSAX 'stache big enough for the 4% SWR to exceed normal household spending
  • Odd hobbies
  • Enough time to travel and even live elsewhere because there's no longer a need to be tied to a job
  • Dinner parties where family and friends get together at a well set table, sharing good food, beverages, and conversation
  • Dressing like Howard Hughes's love child, because there is no longer a financial incentive to impress anyone
  • A world title in some obscure sport or competitive activity
  • The kind of true stories that make us even more fun than that Dos Equis guy
  • Stealth charity

What else can you guys add?

Chesleygirl

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Re: 10 Things People Believe Will Make Them Feel Successful
« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2017, 02:20:47 PM »
Expensive-brand athletic clothing that will make them feel like an athlete even if they aren't one.

Drole

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Re: 10 Things People Believe Will Make Them Feel Successful
« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2017, 03:51:06 PM »
Expensive-brand athletic clothing that will make them feel like an athlete even if they aren't one.
+1

Travis

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Re: 10 Things People Believe Will Make Them Feel Successful
« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2017, 03:53:59 PM »
Expensive-brand athletic clothing that will make them feel like an athlete even if they aren't one.

You take that back!  I've been told since I was a kid that having Michael Jordan on my shoe is the same things as being him.

Laura33

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Re: 10 Things People Believe Will Make Them Feel Successful
« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2017, 08:30:53 AM »
I'm not surprised by all the trappings people want; honestly, I'd like it all, too, if I had unlimited money.  But I am floored that "having X zeroes to the left of the decimal point" didn't even make the list.  Damn.

economista

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Re: 10 Things People Believe Will Make Them Feel Successful
« Reply #10 on: November 09, 2017, 10:29:14 AM »
Expensive-brand athletic clothing that will make them feel like an athlete even if they aren't one.

You take that back!  I've been told since I was a kid that having Michael Jordan on my shoe is the same things as being him.

On Monday while lifting I saw a guy who probably weighed 2x what I weigh wearing fancy lifting clothes and $200 lifting shoes.  He squatted and deadlifted the same amount I did with my 120 lb. body and $20 shoes from the Nike outlet store.  Of course my SO pointed out that he could have just been working on form that day, but I like my narrative better - spendy-pants who thinks buying expensive workout gear will make him stronger.

boyerbt

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Re: 10 Things People Believe Will Make Them Feel Successful
« Reply #11 on: November 09, 2017, 11:20:46 AM »
Expensive-brand athletic clothing that will make them feel like an athlete even if they aren't one.

You take that back!  I've been told since I was a kid that having Michael Jordan on my shoe is the same things as being him.

On Monday while lifting I saw a guy who probably weighed 2x what I weigh wearing fancy lifting clothes and $200 lifting shoes.  He squatted and deadlifted the same amount I did with my 120 lb. body and $20 shoes from the Nike outlet store.  Of course my SO pointed out that he could have just been working on form that day, but I like my narrative better - spendy-pants who thinks buying expensive workout gear will make him stronger.

I agree with your narrative. Our gym as well as most I'd guess, are the same. Also, something else I have noticed is there must be a direct correlation to the size of one's headphones to the person's respective seriousness of their lifting....I guess my $3 and 5yr old earbuds from amazon mean I don't care about physical fitness.

economista

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Re: 10 Things People Believe Will Make Them Feel Successful
« Reply #12 on: November 09, 2017, 11:26:56 AM »
Expensive-brand athletic clothing that will make them feel like an athlete even if they aren't one.

You take that back!  I've been told since I was a kid that having Michael Jordan on my shoe is the same things as being him.

On Monday while lifting I saw a guy who probably weighed 2x what I weigh wearing fancy lifting clothes and $200 lifting shoes.  He squatted and deadlifted the same amount I did with my 120 lb. body and $20 shoes from the Nike outlet store.  Of course my SO pointed out that he could have just been working on form that day, but I like my narrative better - spendy-pants who thinks buying expensive workout gear will make him stronger.

I agree with your narrative. Our gym as well as most I'd guess, are the same. Also, something else I have noticed is there must be a direct correlation to the size of one's headphones to the person's respective seriousness of their lifting....I guess my $3 and 5yr old earbuds from amazon mean I don't care about physical fitness.

Yes!  And they must be wireless.  Granted, I got irritated with the free earbuds that came with my phone and I bought a pair of $20 wireless ones off amazon, but I didn't buy the big wireless beats ones!  Also, I was curious so I just did a search - those things cost $100 - $300+!  For a pair of headphones that aren't even bose noise cancelling ones!

Just Joe

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Re: 10 Things People Believe Will Make Them Feel Successful
« Reply #13 on: November 09, 2017, 03:31:39 PM »
Even good sounding bluetooth earbud headphones can be had for $35.

Beware there are really cheap ones that sound like music through the landline telephone and brand name examples that sound really good.

Drole

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Re: 10 Things People Believe Will Make Them Feel Successful
« Reply #14 on: November 09, 2017, 04:49:31 PM »
I use the earbuds leftover from ✈ flights and random tourist tours. So in a way, mine do cost more than those fancy ones.

ACyclist

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Re: 10 Things People Believe Will Make Them Feel Successful
« Reply #15 on: November 09, 2017, 08:45:19 PM »

Aka keeping up with the Jonses through conspicuous spending.

https://www.entrepreneur.com/slideshow/304040

Many have tried and many have failed.  This is my last name.  :)

AnnaGrowsAMustache

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Re: 10 Things People Believe Will Make Them Feel Successful
« Reply #16 on: November 09, 2017, 11:16:25 PM »
Success is written into our perceptions in lots of weird ways. For example, I was absolutely enraged when I found out that a particularly nasty person I know got chickens. Then I realised that chickens are part of my idea of success. So I got chickens. Yes, I know I'm weird....

Sun Hat

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Re: 10 Things People Believe Will Make Them Feel Successful
« Reply #17 on: November 10, 2017, 08:46:51 AM »
Success is written into our perceptions in lots of weird ways. For example, I was absolutely enraged when I found out that a particularly nasty person I know got chickens. Then I realised that chickens are part of my idea of success. So I got chickens. Yes, I know I'm weird....

Not on this forum! I also equate chickens with success. A cousin recently reported that she's moving to an acreage and may get chickens, and I nearly swooned. I say that we add that to GrimSqueaker's sweet list of things that make Mustachians feel successful.

I think we could start listing things that would make Mustachians feel successful, such as:

  • A VTSAX 'stache big enough for the 4% SWR to exceed normal household spending
  • Odd hobbies
  • Enough time to travel and even live elsewhere because there's no longer a need to be tied to a job
  • Dinner parties where family and friends get together at a well set table, sharing good food, beverages, and conversation
  • Dressing like Howard Hughes's love child, because there is no longer a financial incentive to impress anyone
  • A world title in some obscure sport or competitive activity
  • The kind of true stories that make us even more fun than that Dos Equis guy
  • Stealth charity

For the time being, I'm opting to stay in the city so will forego chickens. Instead, I've proposed a deal where I tend a huge garden for my cousin (she has 6 kids under 10, so can use all the help that she can get) in exchange for being allowed to donate what she doesn't need to the food bank (which will tick several goals that GS identified)

ACyclist

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Re: 10 Things People Believe Will Make Them Feel Successful
« Reply #18 on: November 10, 2017, 09:25:47 AM »
We had chickens.  They were sweet and the eggs were great.  However, it didn't pencil out.  The cost of feed and upkeep seems to dwarf the returns, IMHO. Eggs are pretty cheap.

Also it was the work that deterred me.  We are gone most of the summer.  I can't have pets or livestock.  It doesn't work with our roaming lifestyle for much of the year.  We play too much.

AnnaGrowsAMustache

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Re: 10 Things People Believe Will Make Them Feel Successful
« Reply #19 on: November 10, 2017, 02:15:10 PM »
Hahaha, love that I've found some weird chicken people! Chicken people for the win!

I agree that it is an expensive way to do eggs, but my main motivation was not to participate in the commercial egg industry. I got sick of trying to figure out who was producing actual free range eggs and what they meant by free range, and then realising that the free range companies are subsidiaries of huge battery farming corporations anyway... Now I know that my two little feathery assholes are completely well looked after and I can enjoy their contribution to my breakfast without guilt. They're also great for practical recycling of food waste, particularly the bastard cat's leavings because he is NOT a member of the Clean Plate Club.

ACyclist

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Re: 10 Things People Believe Will Make Them Feel Successful
« Reply #20 on: November 10, 2017, 02:30:04 PM »
Speaking of chickens and humanely raised eggs, I found pasture eggs from Vital farms on sale at Grocery outlet today.  They were $3.49, and they cost double that price at the regular grocery. It would have cost way more in feed and bedding to make a dozen eggs.  Add the cost of heating their water right now, and the cost is tremendously more.

Although, the fresher eggs from your own ladies is pretty fantastic.  I am trying to make myself feel better for not having the girls anymore.  :)

Undecided

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Re: 10 Things People Believe Will Make Them Feel Successful
« Reply #21 on: November 11, 2017, 09:58:02 PM »
Consider that the “article” refers to a “five-star Michelin restaurant,” notwithstanding that no such thing exists (the scale for rated restaurants is 1-3 stars). My only familiarity with “Entrepreneur” comes from seeing “likes” posted on Facebook by people who are strivers, to put it charitably.

KodeBlue

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Re: 10 Things People Believe Will Make Them Feel Successful
« Reply #22 on: November 12, 2017, 07:40:59 AM »
It's a "cargo cult" mentality....sucessful people have these things, so if I have them that means I'm sucessful..

maizeman

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Re: 10 Things People Believe Will Make Them Feel Successful
« Reply #23 on: November 12, 2017, 08:17:43 AM »
Now we just need the companion article: 10 Things That Actually Do Make People Feel Successful.

Even in a non-mustachian context, I'm guessing a lot of the things on the first article's list are going to be great for a couple of days to a week and then disappear into the limitless void of hedonic adaptation.

Laura33

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Re: 10 Things People Believe Will Make Them Feel Successful
« Reply #24 on: November 13, 2017, 07:54:48 AM »
Now I know that my two little feathery assholes are completely well looked after and I can enjoy their contribution to my breakfast without guilt. They're also great for practical recycling of food waste, particularly the bastard cat's leavings because he is NOT a member of the Clean Plate Club.

Personally, I love that you have asshole chickens and a bastard cat.  Those are the best kinds.

Plus it's an awesome band name. . . .

MrsPete

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Re: 10 Things People Believe Will Make Them Feel Successful
« Reply #25 on: November 15, 2017, 03:56:45 PM »
I don't know whether "successful" is the right word, but I feel accomplished, safe, as if I'm living right when I have the following in my house:

- A full pantry and freezer, including several homemade frozen meals that can become dinner at a moment's notice
- Unopened package(s) of toilet paper, trash bags, shampoo, and other house hold products 
- Clean clothes in my closets and freshly washed towels in my bathroom 
- A full tank of gas
- 90% of my Christmas gifts purchased and wrapped by August
- All my bills paid and a fully funded emergency fund
- All my preventative care medical appointments scheduled

These things make me feel like my life is "on track". 

Sun Hat

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Re: 10 Things People Believe Will Make Them Feel Successful
« Reply #26 on: November 15, 2017, 08:14:38 PM »
In order to feel on track, I think that I need MrsPete to organize my life for a while.

My bar is somewhat lower. I like for my sofa to look more like fabric and less like dog fur. It's not that easy a state to maintain with a large fluffy dog who likes to attack the vacuum cleaner. 

AnnaGrowsAMustache

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Re: 10 Things People Believe Will Make Them Feel Successful
« Reply #27 on: November 16, 2017, 02:43:41 AM »
In order to feel on track, I think that I need MrsPete to organize my life for a while.

My bar is somewhat lower. I like for my sofa to look more like fabric and less like dog fur. It's not that easy a state to maintain with a large fluffy dog who likes to attack the vacuum cleaner.

Simple solution - shave the dog.

talltexan

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Re: 10 Things People Believe Will Make Them Feel Successful
« Reply #28 on: November 16, 2017, 07:04:18 AM »
I actually unpacked some of these ideas with a crypto-currency investing friend. He pointed out that he *literally* believes in a world in which the US Dollar will be worthless. So--to him--only savings in bitcoins constitute success. He is using dollars to tide himself over while he waits for the apocalypse.

Just Joe

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Re: 10 Things People Believe Will Make Them Feel Successful
« Reply #29 on: November 16, 2017, 10:04:10 AM »
In order to feel on track, I think that I need MrsPete to organize my life for a while.

My bar is somewhat lower. I like for my sofa to look more like fabric and less like dog fur. It's not that easy a state to maintain with a large fluffy dog who likes to attack the vacuum cleaner.

Simple solution - shave the dog.

Then the dog needs a winter wardrobe and counseling.

Sun Hat

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Re: 10 Things People Believe Will Make Them Feel Successful
« Reply #30 on: November 16, 2017, 10:13:11 AM »
If he were hairless, it wouldn’t be so satisfying to de-fluff the sofa! It’s like the zen of endlessly tending a meditation garden, but with dog fur.

runbikerun

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Re: 10 Things People Believe Will Make Them Feel Successful
« Reply #31 on: November 16, 2017, 10:14:06 AM »
I actually unpacked some of these ideas with a crypto-currency investing friend. He pointed out that he *literally* believes in a world in which the US Dollar will be worthless. So--to him--only savings in bitcoins constitute success. He is using dollars to tide himself over while he waits for the apocalypse.

Jesus, that's a very psychologically risky approach. If Warren Buffet, Jamie Dimon, Jordan Belfort and Robert Shipper are right, and bitcoin is in an unsustainable bubble, then the pop will be horrific for your friend. Losing all your money is bad, but simultaneously losing your entire outlook? That would be brutal.

talltexan

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Re: 10 Things People Believe Will Make Them Feel Successful
« Reply #32 on: November 21, 2017, 11:46:11 AM »
I actually think part of the appeal of investing is the chance to realize something about the world sooner than others realize it.

When an investment doesn't work out, it can fail either because the risk didn't play out, or because you were wrong in your assessment of the risk. With most investments, it's probably difficult to distinguish between the two, but the Bitcoin boosters seem so convinced of its inevitability that I don't believe its failure will be possible without a massive side of cognitive dissonance.

GardenBaker

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Re: 10 Things People Believe Will Make Them Feel Successful
« Reply #33 on: November 21, 2017, 12:06:44 PM »
Expensive-brand athletic clothing that will make them feel like an athlete even if they aren't one.

I love to buy these cast offs from the "new year resolutioners" about mid-year on eBay when they decided they've only worn them once or twice and they're taking up too much closet space. Pennies on the dollar! I really like the Nike Dri-Fit pants, but wouldn't dream of paying full price.

Just Joe

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Re: 10 Things People Believe Will Make Them Feel Successful
« Reply #34 on: November 21, 2017, 01:17:13 PM »
You can do that with good intentions gear and bicycles too.

Twice I have bought general purpose bicycles so new and years old that the tires showed zero wear. Both were about 10% of their original cost. 

LadyDividend

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Re: 10 Things People Believe Will Make Them Feel Successful
« Reply #35 on: November 21, 2017, 01:45:11 PM »
If this were the way I judged my life, I'd be considered a failure. I only live close to my family and take vacations (not lavish ones). Oh, and I eat out the odd time.

Good thing this list is mostly the opposite of what I value in my life!

Chesleygirl

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Re: 10 Things People Believe Will Make Them Feel Successful
« Reply #36 on: November 22, 2017, 08:15:15 AM »
I knew a woman who broke up with two fiances regarding issues with the engagement ring. She wanted something flashier. Her dream since childhood was to get a very big diamond, something to show off to her friends. She even explained to me why it was so important (I'll be wearing it every day!) and I tried to listen and understand. She is in her mid-50s now and still single. She probably wouldn't be, if she'd been willing to accept a nice guy who gave her whatever he could afford.

AlanStache

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Re: 10 Things People Believe Will Make Them Feel Successful
« Reply #37 on: November 22, 2017, 08:47:28 AM »
I knew a woman who broke up with two fiances regarding issues with the engagement ring. She wanted something flashier. Her dream since childhood was to get a very big diamond, something to show off to her friends. She even explained to me why it was so important (I'll be wearing it every day!) and I tried to listen and understand. She is in her mid-50s now and still single. She probably wouldn't be, if she'd been willing to accept a nice guy who gave her whatever he could afford.

I suspect her needing a large ring has a common cause with what the men also really objected too; ie see wanted to spend lots of money on other things.

SeaEhm

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Re: 10 Things People Believe Will Make Them Feel Successful
« Reply #38 on: November 22, 2017, 08:59:36 AM »
"Even when it comes to cars, a majority of respondents said they’d need a car twice the value of their current one in order to feel successful. With the average price of a person’s vehicle at $23,000, that means a $56,000 ride might do the trick to making them feel wealthy."




"Everyone loves a nice meal, especially if it’s at a five-star Michelin restaurant. According to the survey, dining at expensive restaurants was the third greatest aspect causing people to feel successful. - Article"

"The inspectors write reports that are distilled, in annual "stars meetings" at the guide's various national offices, into the ranking of three stars, two stars, or one star—or no stars. (Establishments that Michelin deems unworthy of a visit are not included in the guide.)"

Sad that technology makes people feel like they have made it.  Attaining a $1,000 phone or $2,000 computer isn't really too far fetched in attainability. 


slugline

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Re: 10 Things People Believe Will Make Them Feel Successful
« Reply #39 on: November 22, 2017, 09:36:46 AM »
Obviously, the "five-star" restaurants are so exclusive their names aren't listed in the Michelin guide. The general public will only be informed of the ones that are three-star worthy and below. ;)

SeaEhm

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Re: 10 Things People Believe Will Make Them Feel Successful
« Reply #40 on: November 22, 2017, 09:40:29 AM »
Obviously, the "five-star" restaurants are so exclusive their names aren't listed in the Michelin guide. The general public will only be informed of the ones that are three-star worthy and below. ;)

Thanks! PM me if you happen to know how I can get a list of the 5 star ones.

Chesleygirl

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Re: 10 Things People Believe Will Make Them Feel Successful
« Reply #41 on: November 22, 2017, 12:49:06 PM »
I knew a woman who broke up with two fiances regarding issues with the engagement ring. She wanted something flashier. Her dream since childhood was to get a very big diamond, something to show off to her friends. She even explained to me why it was so important (I'll be wearing it every day!) and I tried to listen and understand. She is in her mid-50s now and still single. She probably wouldn't be, if she'd been willing to accept a nice guy who gave her whatever he could afford.

I suspect her needing a large ring has a common cause with what the men also really objected too; ie see wanted to spend lots of money on other things.

I think you're right. She wanted to have a certain kind of lifestyle and couldn't accept anything less. She would have been better off to take what she could get.

BookLoverL

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Re: 10 Things People Believe Will Make Them Feel Successful
« Reply #42 on: November 25, 2017, 05:24:20 PM »
I reckon the best way to feel successful is to actually succeed at something. No one needs all that extra stuff.

MgoSam

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Re: 10 Things People Believe Will Make Them Feel Successful
« Reply #43 on: November 25, 2017, 06:42:49 PM »
The thing that gets me about owning things is how short a duration people tend to be pleased with it. I'm glad I don't feel like a shiny luxury automobile will make me feel like a success because then I might be more prone to "needing" a newer model every year or so which can get very expensive.

bruscar5

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Re: 10 Things People Believe Will Make Them Feel Successful
« Reply #44 on: November 26, 2017, 11:16:20 PM »
I feel like the common thread through all of these, with the exception of travelling, is that they aren't really fulfilling. Is there really a difference between feeling fulfilled and feeling successful? And it is much more fulfilling (and cheaper) to cut back on the materialism and focus on experiences and people, IMHO.

Laura33

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Re: 10 Things People Believe Will Make Them Feel Successful
« Reply #45 on: November 27, 2017, 10:29:18 AM »
I feel like the common thread through all of these, with the exception of travelling, is that they aren't really fulfilling. Is there really a difference between feeling fulfilled and feeling successful? And it is much more fulfilling (and cheaper) to cut back on the materialism and focus on experiences and people, IMHO.

Yes, for most people.  "Fulfilled" is usually used to refer to vocations that are personally satisfying but not particularly financially rewarding.  "Successful," OTOH, is usually construed as involving status.  Ergo, many people chase the things that they see as markers of status so they can feel successful. 

Two major problems with this thinking:

1.  They have it bass-ackwards:  the fancy goods are the effect, not the cause.  Before the advent of easy credit and "buy now, pay later," that VP down the street drove a Mercedes because he worked his ass off and saved his money for years to pay for it.  And that car was probably pretty satisfying, because he knew he had earned it.  OTOH, if you chase the goods and short-circuit the effort/investment in yourself and your work, you are buying only empty markers, not the "success" that led to them.  So of course whatever you buy with that money is unsatisfying -- you haven't put in the work to earn it.

2.  Wiser people understand that "successful" is the same as "fulfilled" -- it's about doing work and spending your time on things that you enjoy, things that support the values that are important to you, that make you a better/more complete person and make the world a better place.  None of which has a damn thing to do with "stuff."