The Money Mustache Community
Around the Internet => Antimustachian Wall of Shame and Comedy => Topic started by: hownowbrowncow on May 08, 2016, 07:12:02 PM
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Another spot-on article detailing the wastefulness that's normal in the US. Comments are of course filled with justifications and pouting over those mean Europeans!
http://thefinancialdiet.com/10-things-americans-waste-money-on-that-i-cant-understand/
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Guy has cats. 'Nuff said.
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Always good to try to see yourself through someone else's eyes. Being Canadian (and knowing that Europeans don't distinguish between Canadians and Americans as much as we like to tell ourselves) I found myself justifying #5 (big home) #8 (cars) and #9 (gym) based on the fact that I don't like gong outside from Nov - Mar of each year.
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Guy has cats. 'Nuff said.
It's a girl.
As a fellow European I must disagree with the article. Fast fashion and technology, really? We're just as guilty of that as people across the pond. I guess it mostly varies per group of friends you hang out with.
But I must agree of McMansions, driving and airconditioning.
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This article is incredibly supercilious, not to mention idiotic.
#1: Why don't Americans go to restaurants?
#10: Why do Americans go to restaurants all the time?
The cars and big houses, yes, but both are so often mentioned as to be cliches.
good, fresh food, simple surroundings, long walks or bikes as exercise, and hosting friends at one another’s homes . . . For many Americans, these things are rare
This is on a level with saying, " Europeans don't wash, all smoke, and are commies." What an ass.
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Stereotypes exist for a reason.
Obviously not all Europeans smoke and don't wash often enough, but I can guarantee you Europeans smoke much more than Americans and do not wash as often.
The air conditioning thing is VERY real, for example, and so is the takeout thing.
I'm Italian, lived in Italy, France and Spain, spent the last 6 years in the USA so I'm not speculating.
There's also tons of data around that show that ON AVERAGE (which doesn't mean ALL), Americans are significantly more wasteful than Europeans and save much less.
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Stereotypes exist for a reason.
Obviously not all Europeans smoke and don't wash often enough, but I can guarantee you Europeans smoke much more than Americans and do not wash as often.
The air conditioning thing is VERY real, for example, and so is the takeout thing.
I'm Italian, lived in Italy, France and Spain, spent the last 6 years in the USA so I'm not speculating.
There's also tons of data around that show that ON AVERAGE (which doesn't mean ALL), Americans are significantly more wasteful than Europeans and save much less.
I still don't get where the not-washing stereotype comes from... I've heard it about France, but I've been there a lot of times and I never noticed anything. I'm from the Netherlands and everyone I know showers daily. Finland is saunaland and Hungary is famous for spas. Iceland (do we count Iceland?) has its hotsprings of course. The only days I don't shower, is when I bathe instead.
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From the article:
I’m 25, going to be 26 very soon
Pretty much
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3292/5763428843_ce57f1f3a9.jpg)
It's not that I disagree with most of her points, although if she spent a summer in Richmond she would understand why you would have to pry air conditioning from me, it's that her millennial-smug tone irks me.
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This article reads like someone is comparing their local group to the stereotype of an american. I know plenty of people here in Germany who buy the latest electronics, raise family on ready made meals, certainly like cars. Average size of apartments and houses has increased by 50% over the past 20 years.
Some things a different because of physical constraints. The USA is a lot more South then Europe. It simply is not in only hotter, but also more humid in the southern states leading to more air condition. European cities are larger then in the US. Hamburg would be the 5th biggest city, Berlin is comparable to Los Angeles in population, while being smaller spacewise, London has the population of New York. There aren't that many affordable huge places in Ney York. Why would I expect them in similar cities in Europe.
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I still don't get where the not-washing stereotype comes from... I've heard it about France, but I've been there a lot of times and I never noticed anything. I'm from the Netherlands and everyone I know showers daily. Finland is saunaland and Hungary is famous for spas. Iceland (do we count Iceland?) has its hotsprings of course. The only days I don't shower, is when I bathe instead.
Take the subway at rush hour in the morning in Paris, then fly to NYC and do the same.
You will see (should I say smell?) what I'm talking about :)
For many Americans, showering twice per day is very common.
As for the smoking, there's stats out there.
Air conditioning: the issue is not in the diffusion of AC, but the temperatures.
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"In the summer, they want to be wrapping up in a sweater in their freezing offices. In the winter, they want to be broiling under their bedsheets."
????
We *want* to wrap up in a sweater in the summer? No, we don't.
The culture of inviting people into our homes is disappearing? She's been in the US in only wealthy areas for a few months at most.
I can't take this article seriously. Seems like clickbait.
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I think she has some really good points, but as others here (and there) have pointed out, the US has different challenges.
We work more hours, we are more spread out. This makes public transport difficult in some areas.
Longer work hours make cooking at home and having dinner parties harder. I mean, I love to host friends, but the thought of cleaning the house first? Forget it. So we do potluck in the park.
And the AC thing, I don't know much about Europe. How does it compare to TX? I'm stuck with the AC at work (and I wear a sweater at work). But we have to keep regular temps and humidity for semiconductors.
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I think she took inspiration from her cats -- Martin and Luther -- and just nailed this shit to a wall to see what would stick. (Just a little Lutheran humor there from a Lutheran. haha)
I'm always taken aback when people do cross-cultural comparisons (whether on the basis of economics, religion, social practices) and point out where "others" get it wrong. I'm the last to defend McMansions, car habits, and constant take out... but on the other hand I learned a long time ago not to compare our worst to someone else's best, and vice versa. She paints pretty broad brush strokes here based on a certain urban, middle class, and possibly young demographic.
Although I am buoyed to see a trend toward new "urbanist" communities that are walkable and bikeable or traversable by public transport I do feel that many Europeans don't grasp the sheer amount of land mass we have in the United States and what it takes to get from Point A to Point B. I live in the upper midwest and my job (in a rural area) requires me to drive 30 miles in each direction. It's not that I like driving. This is a difficult concept for us to communicate to our Scandinavian Cousins who have easy access to trains, ferries, and cheap short hop airfares. The transportation system here is different and stuff is not very close. I'm envious of what they have, but it doesn't change the reality.
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I'm American, and I assumed that all 10 would be things that I'm not guilty of. But she got me with the big houses and the heat. I've lived outside the US and I recall wearing a winter jacket in the house 90% of the time because my American body couldn't handle it.
That being said, I thought the dinner party thing was funny, just because it doesn't seem accurate. I'm wondering if she didn't get invited to dinner parties because she was not well-liked by the Americans she seems to turn her nose up at! We regularly host and are invited to dinner, and rarely are we invited out to restaurants/bars. Though admittedly for much of my early adult life I lived in tiny apartments where hosting really wasn't an option, and during those periods of life I did go out to restaurants to socialize.
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Guy has cats. 'Nuff said.
It's a girl.
As a fellow European I must disagree with the article. Fast fashion and technology, really? We're just as guilty of that as people across the pond. I guess it mostly varies per group of friends you hang out with.
But I must agree of McMansions, driving and airconditioning.
Aren't the big fast fashion brands (H+M, Zara, Mango) all European companies, anyway?
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This chica has clearly never been to Eastern Europe. It's ALL about the Fast Fashion here, and my house here is about twice the size (literally, at 3200 square feet v. 1800 square feet) of the one we lived in at home in the States....and in the grand scheme of houses here's it's pretty modest. We've got a Costco clone here, people are crazy about their electronics especially cellphones (to the point that I get teased about my perfectly serviceable MotoX being my dinosaur phone) and the men here are, general, way more into cars than any but the most gear-headed American teens.
Maybe that's why I love it so much? ;)
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I still don't get where the not-washing stereotype comes from... I've heard it about France, but I've been there a lot of times and I never noticed anything. I'm from the Netherlands and everyone I know showers daily. Finland is saunaland and Hungary is famous for spas. Iceland (do we count Iceland?) has its hotsprings of course. The only days I don't shower, is when I bathe instead.
Take the subway at rush hour in the morning in Paris, then fly to NYC and do the same.
You will see (should I say smell?) what I'm talking about :)
For many Americans, showering twice per day is very common.
I don't think it's about washing. Americans have artificial scents everywhere. Laundry detergent, cleaning supplies, face cleanser, shampoo, conditioner, soap, Anti-perspirant, deodorant, lotion, perfume, the air itself! We don't know what people are supposed to smell like. Europeans don't use as much scented shit on themselves and are used to natural body odors.
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I'm surprised to see so much pushback against this article.
I'm sure not all Europeans are better on all counts, but none of the ten things she listed should be controversial as unnecessary "luxuries" that are commonplace in the U.S. (and many of these phenomena have a neutral effect on quality of life at best).
I was nodding my head along in agreement that all 10 are problems with the U.S.
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I'm surprised to see so much pushback against this article.
I'm sure not all Europeans are better on all counts, but none of the ten things she listed should be controversial as unnecessary "luxuries" that are commonplace in the U.S. (and many of these phenomena have a neutral effect on quality of life at best).
I was nodding my head along in agreement that all 10 are problems with the U.S.
There is pushback because the write obviously knows nothing (or very little). It's like reading an article about top 10 software coding mistakes written by someone whose "coding" experience consists of building minecraft "circuits" (or top 10 construction mistakes by a someone that can barely assemble Ikea furniture).
I think for some Europeans it seems incredibly hard to wrap their mind around just how big the US is and how diverse in culture, habits, weather, etc. Take takeout/restaurants. If you live in NYC vs Johnstown PA it's going to be night and day difference in habits. Same with AC and living in Colorado vs Georgia.
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Aren't the big fast fashion brands (H+M, Zara, Mango) all European companies, anyway?
H&M is Swedish. Biggets individual stock in my portfolio. Annual dividend pays for my vacation. Thank you H&M shoppers.
Mango and Zara are Spanish, apparantly.
Please, when talking about scandinavia - do note that only Denmark, the southern parts of Sweden and parts of just around the big cities have that ease of commute that you talk about.
Large parts of Sweden, Finland and Norway are very comparable to northern, rural USA. In some cases even worse, since the roads are narrower and curvier meaning longer commute times. And twice the price of gasoline thanks to our tax systems.
I grew up with a 45 minute highway non-traffic commute was the norm.
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I'm surprised to see so much pushback against this article.
The "pushback" is because it's an offensive and terribly written article. Some of her criticisms of the US are quite valid, and there are more that could be made. However, she sounds like a snotty 14-year-old who thinks she's oh-so-clever.
I was nodding my head along in agreement that all 10 are problems with the U.S.
Really? You agree with both 1 and 10?
#1: Why don't Americans go to restaurants?
#10: Why do Americans go to restaurants all the time?
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LOL, if it were written by an American Mustachian we'd probably agree with 1 to 9 on the snotty, little list (although I don't know what she means by # 10 no one gives dinner parties, that's not right, but I'm an old married lady--I guess the kids probably don't pull out grandma's china that often). But as soon as a Brit starts in with "Those Yanks," I get all, "You'll pull my air conditioning remote and take out menus from my cold, dead hands."
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LOL, if it were written by an American Mustachian we'd probably agree with 1 to 9 on the snotty, little list (although I don't know what she means by # 10 no one gives dinner parties, that's not right, but I'm an old married lady--I guess the kids probably don't pull out grandma's china that often). But as soon as a Brit starts in with "Those Yanks," I get all, "You'll pull my air conditioning remote and take out menus from my cold, dead hands."
I don't know, I think with all the hipsterism and the return to hand-crafted cocktails and local food, that dinner parties are making a comeback... mine are just usually on the back deck in front of the grill, because we're lazy schmoes (and Grandma's china is in storage.) That's just me, though.
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LOL, if it were written by an American Mustachian we'd probably agree with 1 to 9 on the snotty, little list (although I don't know what she means by # 10 no one gives dinner parties, that's not right, but I'm an old married lady--I guess the kids probably don't pull out grandma's china that often). But as soon as a Brit starts in with "Those Yanks," I get all, "You'll pull my air conditioning remote and take out menus from my cold, dead hands."
I don't know, I think with all the hipsterism and the return to hand-crafted cocktails and local food, that dinner parties are making a comeback... mine are just usually on the back deck in front of the grill, because we're lazy schmoes (and Grandma's china is in storage.) That's just me, though.
I for one have almost completely given up on hosting Americans at dinner parties. It's because I don't like being treated poorly. There's too many cases where people:
1) Refuse to tell you whether or not they can make it: they will say "maybe" literally up to the last moment. This keeps you from getting an accurate head count and knowing how much food to buy and prepare.
2) Simply don't bother to show up.
3) Blow up your phone after the party has started and everyone is seated, thinking that for some reason you're going to jump up from the table and answer a text message.
4) Spend the entire dinner glued to their phones, refusing to talk to anybody because they're too busy making a bunch of personal phone calls or snapping pictures of their food and posting it to social media.
5) Demanding to light up a joint or use illegal drugs even though they know you run a drug free house, because that's how they like to "party" (for some reason they think it's a verb)
6) Refuse to eat anything on the table because it's not "healthy" enough for them despite being cooked from scratch from ingredients selected to match their religious, gluten-free, vegan, Atkins diet, fad-of-the-week dietary restrictions plus what they've told you about their personal likes and dislikes. This is despite the fact that you saw them chow down on greasy take-out the day before.
7) Bring a bunch of uninvited guests of their own.
8) Show up three hours late after most people have finished eating, and ask for their dinners packaged up and wrapped "to go".
9) Insist on "helping" to wash up the dishes despite repeated requests to just leave it alone, and breaking something expensive and irreplaceable in the process because they just don't grok that wood-handled knives can't be put in the dishwasher or that thin stemmed crystal is fragile, or that china can't be dropped on a tile floor the way plastic can.
10) Not leaving when the party is over, and wanting to hang about after I've cleaned up and gone to bed.
11) Getting so staggeringly drunk, as a designated driver, that they are not only unable to drive themselves but the people who relied on them for a ride are also stranded and need to be driven home by someone else, and
12) Never reciprocating in any way with an invitation to come out and have fun somewhere else.
These are people who are completely normal and OK in a work situation, or if we're going together to an outing of some kind like a movie or a restaurant. They're capable of civilized behavior then, just not in somebody's home.
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I don't even think most Americans realize how big our country is. Canada suffers from the same plight. Both countries are multiples larger than Europe. It really doesn't sink in until you fly over the midwest, rockies and desert during the daytime.
Food, we produce some much food at such a huge discount. Our portions are much larger because they can be. Fuel, Natural resources, we have again a hell of a lot more than Europe.
I think this article is extremely narrow minded from someone who has a lot less experience than they think they do with the USA. I can think of lots of places in the US that counter her 'argument.'
I will agree on the dinner party thing. I've given up on friendships before because I was just sick of people bailing at the last minute multiple times.
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LOL, if it were written by an American Mustachian we'd probably agree with 1 to 9 on the snotty, little list (although I don't know what she means by # 10 no one gives dinner parties, that's not right, but I'm an old married lady--I guess the kids probably don't pull out grandma's china that often). But as soon as a Brit starts in with "Those Yanks," I get all, "You'll pull my air conditioning remote and take out menus from my cold, dead hands."
I don't know, I think with all the hipsterism and the return to hand-crafted cocktails and local food, that dinner parties are making a comeback... mine are just usually on the back deck in front of the grill, because we're lazy schmoes (and Grandma's china is in storage.) That's just me, though.
I for one have almost completely given up on hosting Americans at dinner parties. It's because I don't like being treated poorly. There's too many cases where people:
1) Refuse to tell you whether or not they can make it: they will say "maybe" literally up to the last moment. This keeps you from getting an accurate head count and knowing how much food to buy and prepare.
2) Simply don't bother to show up.
3) Blow up your phone after the party has started and everyone is seated, thinking that for some reason you're going to jump up from the table and answer a text message.
4) Spend the entire dinner glued to their phones, refusing to talk to anybody because they're too busy making a bunch of personal phone calls or snapping pictures of their food and posting it to social media.
5) Demanding to light up a joint or use illegal drugs even though they know you run a drug free house, because that's how they like to "party" (for some reason they think it's a verb)
6) Refuse to eat anything on the table because it's not "healthy" enough for them despite being cooked from scratch from ingredients selected to match their religious, gluten-free, vegan, Atkins diet, fad-of-the-week dietary restrictions plus what they've told you about their personal likes and dislikes. This is despite the fact that you saw them chow down on greasy take-out the day before.
7) Bring a bunch of uninvited guests of their own.
8) Show up three hours late after most people have finished eating, and ask for their dinners packaged up and wrapped "to go".
9) Insist on "helping" to wash up the dishes despite repeated requests to just leave it alone, and breaking something expensive and irreplaceable in the process because they just don't grok that wood-handled knives can't be put in the dishwasher or that thin stemmed crystal is fragile, or that china can't be dropped on a tile floor the way plastic can.
10) Not leaving when the party is over, and wanting to hang about after I've cleaned up and gone to bed.
11) Getting so staggeringly drunk, as a designated driver, that they are not only unable to drive themselves but the people who relied on them for a ride are also stranded and need to be driven home by someone else, and
12) Never reciprocating in any way with an invitation to come out and have fun somewhere else.
These are people who are completely normal and OK in a work situation, or if we're going together to an outing of some kind like a movie or a restaurant. They're capable of civilized behavior then, just not in somebody's home.
Think this is more the people you associate with and has less to do with "Americans".
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It's a girl.
As a fellow European I must disagree with the article. Fast fashion and technology, really? We're just as guilty of that as people across the pond. I guess it mostly varies per group of friends you hang out with.
But I must agree of McMansions, driving and airconditioning.
Keep in mind that most of Europe (especially Western Europe) is much milder than much of the USA.
The Netherlands (where I assume you live based on your username) is further North than nearly the entire continental USA. The below is a chart any Europeans feeling smug about how they don't use AC and Americans are wasteful with it should take some time to analyze. Many European cities are further north than the entire continental USA. It's not surprising they do not need AC.
(http://i1107.photobucket.com/albums/h388/Beardsley_Klamm/europe_usjuxv2.jpg)
Think this is more the people you associate with and has less to do with "Americans".
Yeah, I can't think of a single time that I have dealt with anything on that list having hosted many, many Americans.
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Think this is more the people you associate with and has less to do with "Americans".
Not based on the numbers, and I do keep track. To throw a good dinner party I have to keep notes on my guests' work schedules, dietary needs, personalities, and interests. It's part of intelligent hosting and it makes me better able to choose a successful menu and schedule. My mother did a lot of corporate and industrial diplomatic entertaining, and I learned from her. So, there's a science to group entertaining and statistics plays a part. Demographics can be relevant.
I'd estimate my statistical sampling size at well over 250 households each of which might represent an individual, a couple, or a family. The people I invite over are educators, local business owners, adult grad students, people in the skilled trades, various kinds of professionals mostly of the medical, legal, or nerdy persuasion, former military, co-workers, neighbors, business associates, and people I know from sports or from various charitable volunteer activities. I try to avoid politicians and direct marketers due to the odor. The age range is from about 25 to about 60 although some bring their kids. All of them are people I've known for a while, and none are spur-of-the-moment invitations. Some of the parties I throw are for birthdays or wedding showers.
Of the people I've invite over, I'd say roughly 80% of them are born and raised in the USA. The other 20% are half foreign nationals (on a work, student, or visitor's visa) and half are US citizens who were either born or raised in a country besides the USA. If rudeness were distributed uniformly, then if it were simply a question of interacting with the wrong class of people, I'd expect to get about 1/5 of the rude behavior from the people not raised in the USA. But that's far from the truth, even when I compare people of similar socioeconomic background.
Over the nearly 18 years I've been entertaining under my own roof, I have only ever had three special food requests from people raised outside the USA. One related to a food allergy, and two related to religious food prohibitions that I was already aware of and that I planned around. When I entertain Americans, I can expect special food requests from more than half the people I entertain. Some relate to allergies but the vast majority are fad diet related. The same goes for deciding whether to attend the party at all, or texting or playing with gadgets during the meal. (Before or after the meal is OK, in fact being able to look up a fact during an argument is vital). So far 100% of the substance abuse related behavior has been from my fellow Americans. Because of the sampling I'd expect only about 80%. I'm not saying that not one of my guests with significant other-than-American cultural exposure ever abuses substances. I'm saying they don't do it while they're guests in my home.
I'm not saying the rudeness from people of non-US culture is zero. It's not true. Lateness, for example, is a thing in some cultures, and I've had guests who like to live the stereotype. But overall the rudeness is substantially less than the expected value assuming a uniform distribution of rude behavior. My conclusion so far is that the distribution isn't uniform.
Speaking of "uniform", I very seldom have trouble getting people raised in US military families to RSVP or show up on time. That is a very pleasant statistical outlier.
Here's another unexpected statistical oddity: kids. I don't have a huge number of kids, babies, or teens dining with me, but the ones who do have been uniformly American raised. They are nearly always as well behaved as their parents, and far better behaved than many of the adults regardless of national origin. They are seldom anywhere near as picky as the adults.
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Think this is more the people you associate with and has less to do with "Americans".
I don't know - that "MAYBE" problem is pretty widespread. We don't host often for a similar set of reasons except for select few friends. People that "maybe" will come, bail at the last second or show up late and leave early...
Don't know if that is an American problem or a just the times we live in problem.
Hanging out with friends ought to be fun and laid back but sometimes it feels like too much effort.
Throw in a dose of political discussion and someone always wants to parrot or pontificate about their favorite candidate - usually without enough understanding of it to support their positions or painting with a very wide brush. Could we have some informed nuanced discussion at this party or move on to less controversial topics - please? ;)
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Think this is more the people you associate with and has less to do with "Americans".
I don't know - that "MAYBE" problem is pretty widespread. We don't host often for a similar set of reasons except for select few friends. People that "maybe" will come, bail at the last second or show up late and leave early...
Don't know if that is an American problem or a just the times we live in problem.
Hanging out with friends ought to be fun and laid back but sometimes it feels like too much effort.
Throw in a dose of political discussion and someone always wants to parrot or pontificate about their favorite candidate - usually without enough understanding of it to support their positions or painting with a very wide brush. Could we have some informed nuanced discussion at this party or move on to less controversial topics - please? ;)
One neat change these last 20 years has been the impact of cell phones. I still do my best to keep them off the table during the meal, because they really do ruin the talking-and-eating bit. But I've completely changed my position on whether they belong at parties at all. During a cocktail hour or the after-dinner conversation these new "smart" phones are fantastic. They really improve the conversation and allow introverted or socially anxious people to hold their own in a discussion about something they know well. It's much easier to draw somebody out of his or her shell when he or she doesn't feel put on the spot and can use an easy fingertip reference to help illustrate a point, thereby shifting attention away from the speaker. People are using phones to look up facts to support an argument they're making, to assist in citing a historical reference, to find a word or phrase to get around a language barrier because not everyone is a polyglot or shares a common language, or to settle an argument or debate before it gets ugly. In fact, since people no longer need to carry references around in their heads, the quality of the conversation at my parties has gone through the roof.
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Here's another unexpected statistical oddity: kids. I don't have a huge number of kids, babies, or teens dining with me, but the ones who do have been uniformly American raised. They are nearly always as well behaved as their parents, and far better behaved than many of the adults regardless of national origin. They are seldom anywhere near as picky as the adults.
Huh, that's interesting. I've gotten a LOT of snark from Americans for including my toddler in 'nice' dinners, celebrations, etc; I would have assumed based on that that more American kids would be left at home with babysitters.
(Disclaimer: I have a well-behaved toddler we actively parent when out. She does not disturb people's meals, can sit at the table for a half-hour and then colour quietly and NOT run aroung the table or scream, and eats whatever we eat, and generally doesn't shriek, fuss, or be a nuissance. I also don't take her to schmancy restaurants, or to places where people are drinking heavily, or anywhere what's actively inappropriate for a child OR where she'd be likely to actively disturb other diners - 4-hour dinners are NOT the place for toddlers, for example. I'm just a bit bewildered by the common thread of 'kids should stay home until they are old enough to behave' - like, how is a 10-year-old supposed to know how to behave in circumstances that they've never been in? Teach the behavior, slowly, while being aware that you may need to whisk your kid out to stop them from being a public nuissance, and you'll get a 10-year-old who knows how to behave WITHOUT having a video game in hand every second. How else are kids supposed to learn? Osmosis?)
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Guy has cats. 'Nuff said.
The writer is female.
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I don't even think most Americans realize how big our country is. Canada suffers from the same plight. Both countries are multiples larger than Europe. It really doesn't sink in until you fly over the midwest, rockies and desert during the daytime.
Food, we produce some much food at such a huge discount. Our portions are much larger because they can be. Fuel, Natural resources, we have again a hell of a lot more than Europe.
I think this article is extremely narrow minded from someone who has a lot less experience than they think they do with the USA. I can think of lots of places in the US that counter her 'argument.'
I will agree on the dinner party thing. I've given up on friendships before because I was just sick of people bailing at the last minute multiple times.
Have you misunderstood where Europe is and which countries it includes? There are more seas, but that doesn't really make it easier to travel. The non EU countries of Greenland, Norway Ukraina, and the European part of Russia alone are huge. In total, North America has a larger land mass, and is slightly larger in geographical distance, but "multiples larger" is plain wrong. Ander's map shows approximately the same thing.
(http://infobeautiful2.s3.amazonaws.com/usav_europe.png)
As to your "natural resources" claim: please show the facts to prove your statement. A short google search showed that EU and Norways fisheries alone (excluding important fisheries nations like Greenland and Russia) are larger than the US, and that the meat production in the US+Canada is of equal size to Europe if you exclude the European parts of Russia and North Atlantic whaling.
The article is stupid. Europe is incredibly diverse; half the points are wrong in Denmark, the other half are wrong in Cyprus. And 80 % are wrong in Finland, but you'll never know since they probably won't talk to you.
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Some of the stuff seems pretty uncontroversial, like the A/C bit.
I've noticed that most people around me in set the temperature warmer in their buildings in the winter and cooler in the summer. Bit like waaaaay too much. In my office I'm unable to wear long sleeve winter weight shirts during the winter because I'd be sweating all day long. In the summer I can't wear short sleeved summer weight shirts because it's freezing cold. That's silly.
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I find European snobbishness about Americans' finances really hilarious. Like Europe knows anything about handling money. Here's how Europe gives everyone a retirement: Take lots of money from rich people and give to everyone else so they can retire when they are 55 from their 35 hour a week job with eight weeks of paid vacation every year. How do Europeans afford to do this? They charge a 20% sales tax on everything (VAT) and don't spend any money on their militaries. Why should they? The United States will always bail them out if they ever end up in any real military trouble. The European House of Cards is starting to fall, though, as you can see in the examples of countries like Greece, Spain, and Italy. There's only so much blood you can squeeze from a 1% stone. They are rioting in France right now because the government wants to cut back on the freebies for the freeloaders.
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As to your "natural resources" claim: please show the facts to prove your statement. A short google search showed that EU and Norways fisheries alone (excluding important fisheries nations like Greenland and Russia) are larger than the US, and that the meat production in the US+Canada is of equal size to Europe if you exclude the European parts of Russia and North Atlantic whaling.
The article is stupid. Europe is incredibly diverse; half the points are wrong in Denmark, the other half are wrong in Cyprus. And 80 % are wrong in Finland, but you'll never know since they probably won't talk to you.
Cool map bro....
"How big is the United States compared to Europe?
The area of the United States (including Alaska and Hawaii) is 9,161,923 km2, while the area of Europe is 3,788,027 km2. The United States is almost two and a half times the size of the European Union. France is slightly smaller than the state of Texas."
Canada is 9.09 million sq km.
I know math is hard for visual people like you so, let me explain something else, most world maps are distorted. Alaska, Canada and Greenland are far large than appears on most world maps.
As for natural resources, most of the land in Europe has been settled/farmed/used for thousands of years. The US and Canada have massive swathes of land that for the most part are still virgin, and protected when compared to Europe. We have trees older than human civilization.
Oil reserves:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_reserves
Lumber:
http://www.mapsofworld.com/world-top-ten/countries-with-most-timber-producing-countries.html
Food:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_producing_countries_of_agricultural_commodities
(WTF is a gooseberry?)
Way to play into the stereotype. The one company I work for hauls enough grain in one year, just my company, to feed the US 8 times over. 365 million people... 8 times over. We're not even the largest company in our transportation class. The scale of the US and Canada is a hell of a lot larger than most people think. These numbers are even skewed by the massive amount of environmental regulations imposed on us that prevent us from harvesting a lot of lumber, oil and food. A lot of the other countries you see on those lists have little to no regulations and we STILL beat them out.
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Here's another unexpected statistical oddity: kids. I don't have a huge number of kids, babies, or teens dining with me, but the ones who do have been uniformly American raised. They are nearly always as well behaved as their parents, and far better behaved than many of the adults regardless of national origin. They are seldom anywhere near as picky as the adults.
Huh, that's interesting. I've gotten a LOT of snark from Americans for including my toddler in 'nice' dinners, celebrations, etc; I would have assumed based on that that more American kids would be left at home with babysitters.
I suspect that one of the reasons why I'm running into so many poorly socialized humans is because they were raised by parents who did exactly that, and who either didn't entertain at home themselves or didn't involve the kids in the process. Those poor kiddos never got to practice.
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As to your "natural resources" claim: please show the facts to prove your statement. A short google search showed that EU and Norways fisheries alone (excluding important fisheries nations like Greenland and Russia) are larger than the US, and that the meat production in the US+Canada is of equal size to Europe if you exclude the European parts of Russia and North Atlantic whaling.
The article is stupid. Europe is incredibly diverse; half the points are wrong in Denmark, the other half are wrong in Cyprus. And 80 % are wrong in Finland, but you'll never know since they probably won't talk to you.
Cool map bro....
"How big is the United States compared to Europe?
The area of the United States (including Alaska and Hawaii) is 9,161,923 km2, while the area of Europe is 3,788,027 km2. The United States is almost two and a half times the size of the European Union. France is slightly smaller than the state of Texas."
Canada is 9.09 million sq km.
I know math is hard for visual people like you so, let me explain something else, most world maps are distorted. Alaska, Canada and Greenland are far large than appears on most world maps.
As for natural resources, most of the land in Europe has been settled/farmed/used for thousands of years. The US and Canada have massive swathes of land that for the most part are still virgin, and protected when compared to Europe. We have trees older than human civilization.
Oil reserves:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_reserves
Lumber:
http://www.mapsofworld.com/world-top-ten/countries-with-most-timber-producing-countries.html
Food:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_producing_countries_of_agricultural_commodities
(WTF is a gooseberry?)
Way to play into the stereotype. The one company I work for hauls enough grain in one year, just my company, to feed the US 8 times over. 365 million people... 8 times over. We're not even the largest company in our transportation class. The scale of the US and Canada is a hell of a lot larger than most people think. These numbers are even skewed by the massive amount of environmental regulations imposed on us that prevent us from harvesting a lot of lumber, oil and food. A lot of the other countries you see on those lists have little to no regulations and we STILL beat them out.
Again: EU is not the same as Europe. If you want to compare Continents you need to include ALL of Europe; including Ukraine, European part of Russia, Norway, Iceland, Greenland, Switzerland, European part of Turkey, etc.
If you want to think you are the biggest boy in school; no problem, I won't stop you. I really couldn't care less. I just object to being a) excluded from Europe and b) included in the EU.
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Think this is more the people you associate with and has less to do with "Americans".
Not based on the numbers, and I do keep track. To throw a good dinner party I have to keep notes on my guests' work schedules, dietary needs, personalities, and interests. It's part of intelligent hosting and it makes me better able to choose a successful menu and schedule. My mother did a lot of corporate and industrial diplomatic entertaining, and I learned from her. So, there's a science to group entertaining and statistics plays a part. Demographics can be relevant.
I'd estimate my statistical sampling size at well over 250 households each of which might represent an individual, a couple, or a family. The people I invite over are educators, local business owners, adult grad students, people in the skilled trades, various kinds of professionals mostly of the medical, legal, or nerdy persuasion, former military, co-workers, neighbors, business associates, and people I know from sports or from various charitable volunteer activities. I try to avoid politicians and direct marketers due to the odor. The age range is from about 25 to about 60 although some bring their kids. All of them are people I've known for a while, and none are spur-of-the-moment invitations. Some of the parties I throw are for birthdays or wedding showers.
Of the people I've invite over, I'd say roughly 80% of them are born and raised in the USA. The other 20% are half foreign nationals (on a work, student, or visitor's visa) and half are US citizens who were either born or raised in a country besides the USA. If rudeness were distributed uniformly, then if it were simply a question of interacting with the wrong class of people, I'd expect to get about 1/5 of the rude behavior from the people not raised in the USA. But that's far from the truth, even when I compare people of similar socioeconomic background.
Over the nearly 18 years I've been entertaining under my own roof, I have only ever had three special food requests from people raised outside the USA. One related to a food allergy, and two related to religious food prohibitions that I was already aware of and that I planned around. When I entertain Americans, I can expect special food requests from more than half the people I entertain. Some relate to allergies but the vast majority are fad diet related. The same goes for deciding whether to attend the party at all, or texting or playing with gadgets during the meal. (Before or after the meal is OK, in fact being able to look up a fact during an argument is vital). So far 100% of the substance abuse related behavior has been from my fellow Americans. Because of the sampling I'd expect only about 80%. I'm not saying that not one of my guests with significant other-than-American cultural exposure ever abuses substances. I'm saying they don't do it while they're guests in my home.
I'm not saying the rudeness from people of non-US culture is zero. It's not true. Lateness, for example, is a thing in some cultures, and I've had guests who like to live the stereotype. But overall the rudeness is substantially less than the expected value assuming a uniform distribution of rude behavior. My conclusion so far is that the distribution isn't uniform.
Speaking of "uniform", I very seldom have trouble getting people raised in US military families to RSVP or show up on time. That is a very pleasant statistical outlier.
Here's another unexpected statistical oddity: kids. I don't have a huge number of kids, babies, or teens dining with me, but the ones who do have been uniformly American raised. They are nearly always as well behaved as their parents, and far better behaved than many of the adults regardless of national origin. They are seldom anywhere near as picky as the adults.
I agree with Mac_MacGyver. We've been hosting dinners at our house for 15 years now and haven't had any of the problems listed. Occasionally someone has a little too much to drink, but it has never been over the top or a big problem. No issues with illegal drugs of any type. We don't really care if people use phones or whatever, our dinners are an informal affair where everyone brings a dish and people eat when/where they want, and generally the kids are running around having fun. It's a casual social event, with groups constantly forming and disbanding, usually with a bunch of guys congregated around the BBQ. If someone wants to be alone with their phone then this introvert isn't going to get bent out of shape about it. Then again, we are in California so perhaps things are more casual out here than other places in the US. We certainly don't sit down for dinner around a big table, and being 15-30 minutes late is somewhat expected.
The only complaint I have about my fellow Americans is that they are too 'nice' and by that I mean they are afraid to say 'no' because they don't want to hurt anyone's feelings. The 'maybe' responses, and people showing up 3 hours late, etc. are all indicators that people didn't want to attend but felt bad about declining outright.
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Think this is more the people you associate with and has less to do with "Americans".
Not based on the numbers, and I do keep track. To throw a good dinner party I have to keep notes on my guests' work schedules, dietary needs, personalities, and interests. It's part of intelligent hosting and it makes me better able to choose a successful menu and schedule. My mother did a lot of corporate and industrial diplomatic entertaining, and I learned from her. So, there's a science to group entertaining and statistics plays a part. Demographics can be relevant.
I'd estimate my statistical sampling size at well over 250 households each of which might represent an individual, a couple, or a family. The people I invite over are educators, local business owners, adult grad students, people in the skilled trades, various kinds of professionals mostly of the medical, legal, or nerdy persuasion, former military, co-workers, neighbors, business associates, and people I know from sports or from various charitable volunteer activities. I try to avoid politicians and direct marketers due to the odor. The age range is from about 25 to about 60 although some bring their kids. All of them are people I've known for a while, and none are spur-of-the-moment invitations. Some of the parties I throw are for birthdays or wedding showers.
Of the people I've invite over, I'd say roughly 80% of them are born and raised in the USA. The other 20% are half foreign nationals (on a work, student, or visitor's visa) and half are US citizens who were either born or raised in a country besides the USA. If rudeness were distributed uniformly, then if it were simply a question of interacting with the wrong class of people, I'd expect to get about 1/5 of the rude behavior from the people not raised in the USA. But that's far from the truth, even when I compare people of similar socioeconomic background.
Over the nearly 18 years I've been entertaining under my own roof, I have only ever had three special food requests from people raised outside the USA. One related to a food allergy, and two related to religious food prohibitions that I was already aware of and that I planned around. When I entertain Americans, I can expect special food requests from more than half the people I entertain. Some relate to allergies but the vast majority are fad diet related. The same goes for deciding whether to attend the party at all, or texting or playing with gadgets during the meal. (Before or after the meal is OK, in fact being able to look up a fact during an argument is vital). So far 100% of the substance abuse related behavior has been from my fellow Americans. Because of the sampling I'd expect only about 80%. I'm not saying that not one of my guests with significant other-than-American cultural exposure ever abuses substances. I'm saying they don't do it while they're guests in my home.
I'm not saying the rudeness from people of non-US culture is zero. It's not true. Lateness, for example, is a thing in some cultures, and I've had guests who like to live the stereotype. But overall the rudeness is substantially less than the expected value assuming a uniform distribution of rude behavior. My conclusion so far is that the distribution isn't uniform.
Speaking of "uniform", I very seldom have trouble getting people raised in US military families to RSVP or show up on time. That is a very pleasant statistical outlier.
Here's another unexpected statistical oddity: kids. I don't have a huge number of kids, babies, or teens dining with me, but the ones who do have been uniformly American raised. They are nearly always as well behaved as their parents, and far better behaved than many of the adults regardless of national origin. They are seldom anywhere near as picky as the adults.
I agree with Mac_MacGyver. We've been hosting dinners at our house for 15 years now and haven't had any of the problems listed. Occasionally someone has a little too much to drink, but it has never been over the top or a big problem. No issues with illegal drugs of any type. We don't really care if people use phones or whatever, our dinners are an informal affair where everyone brings a dish and people eat when/where they want, and generally the kids are running around having fun. It's a casual social event, with groups constantly forming and disbanding, usually with a bunch of guys congregated around the BBQ. If someone wants to be alone with their phone then this introvert isn't going to get bent out of shape about it. Then again, we are in California so perhaps things are more casual out here than other places in the US. We certainly don't sit down for dinner around a big table, and being 15-30 minutes late is somewhat expected.
The only complaint I have about my fellow Americans is that they are too 'nice' and by that I mean they are afraid to say 'no' because they don't want to hurt anyone's feelings. The 'maybe' responses, and people showing up 3 hours late, etc. are all indicators that people didn't want to attend but felt bad about declining outright.
Possibly. I don't do pot luck or barbecue, so whether or not my guests show up, get a seat at the table, or feel comfortable is relevant to me. I notice and care if one of my guests isn't there or is having an allergic reaction to something I served them.
Edited to add: I've attended some pot lucks and barbecues, and frankly it's not my idea of a good time unless it's some kind of family reunion where there's really no host and people are just kind of getting together. If nobody notices or cares whether I'm there or not, I'd rather not bother. However, if I do accept the invitation, I show up on time and participate fully in the event. That means I bring a dish, participate in the conversation, and enjoy whatever the host has going.
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Possibly. I don't do pot luck or barbecue, so whether or not my guests show up, get a seat at the table, or feel comfortable is relevant to me. I notice and care if one of my guests isn't there or is having an allergic reaction to something I served them.
Edited to add: I've attended some pot lucks and barbecues, and frankly it's not my idea of a good time unless it's some kind of family reunion where there's really no host and people are just kind of getting together. If nobody notices or cares whether I'm there or not, I'd rather not bother. However, if I do accept the invitation, I show up on time and participate fully in the event. That means I bring a dish, participate in the conversation, and enjoy whatever the host has going.
We know of two people in our social groups with real allergies. Everyone is aware of these and does their part to avoid the allergen or at least make it known if it's in a dish. As for silly fad diets, that's part of the logic behind bringing a dish to share, it means people can bring whatever is in fashion.
The only sit down type dinner we do is a Seder meal once a year, and we keep this amongst a few friends who we know enjoy it. Other than this, we just don't enjoy a formal dinner parties, nor does anyone we know. To each his own, I guess.
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Possibly. I don't do pot luck or barbecue, so whether or not my guests show up, get a seat at the table, or feel comfortable is relevant to me. I notice and care if one of my guests isn't there or is having an allergic reaction to something I served them.
Edited to add: I've attended some pot lucks and barbecues, and frankly it's not my idea of a good time unless it's some kind of family reunion where there's really no host and people are just kind of getting together. If nobody notices or cares whether I'm there or not, I'd rather not bother. However, if I do accept the invitation, I show up on time and participate fully in the event. That means I bring a dish, participate in the conversation, and enjoy whatever the host has going.
We know of two people in our social groups with real allergies. Everyone is aware of these and does their part to avoid the allergen or at least make it known if it's in a dish. As for silly fad diets, that's part of the logic behind bringing a dish to share, it means people can bring whatever is in fashion.
The only sit down type dinner we do is a Seder meal once a year, and we keep this amongst a few friends who we know enjoy it. Other than this, we just don't enjoy a formal dinner parties, nor does anyone we know. To each his own, I guess.
Hmm. The way I see it, the style of entertaining is irrelevant so long as everybody involved feels valued, respected, safe, and appreciated. Including the host.
I know very few people who actually entertain potluck or barbecue style, unless they're camping as a group or attending an event where there's no host, such as a family reunion or a powwow. Those are nice events although a person is not a "guest" so much as a co-contributor.
To me there's nothing quite as relaxing as sharing a nice meal with a handful of friends who need to get to know each other better. Everything's so orderly, predictable, and comforting. There aren't any crawling insects or random things happening, nobody's getting grabbed or hit, nothing depends on the weather, the food is extremely well presented, and the drinks and side dishes harmonize with the main course. Best of all, everybody gets to have a good time and feel good about themselves.
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while the area of Europe is 3,788,027 km2. The United States is almost two and a half times the size of the European Union. France is slightly smaller than the state of Texas."
The EU is 4.3 mio km2, which doesn't include Norway nor Russia... The US is larger, but certainly not twice as large. We do have significantly more inhabitants, though. Europe and the US have the same distances, though. Lisboa to Moscow is the same distance as Los Angeles to New York (roughly 3900 km).
What we do not have is widely uninhabited areas. Europe is like Phoenix is next to Chicago. You can't drive for a few hours without hitting a major city here. In the US we drive for two days and only see diners and small towns.
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while the area of Europe is 3,788,027 km2. The United States is almost two and a half times the size of the European Union. France is slightly smaller than the state of Texas."
The EU is 4.3 mio km2, which doesn't include Norway nor Russia... The US is larger, but certainly not twice as large. We do have significantly more inhabitants, though. Europe and the US have the same distances, though. Lisboa to Moscow is the same distance as Los Angeles to New York (roughly 3900 km).
What we do not have is widely uninhabited areas. Europe is like Phoenix is next to Chicago. You can't drive for a few hours without hitting a major city here. In the US we drive for two days and only see diners and small towns.
The last part is true for EU, but not all of Europe. You can drive for a long time in northern Scandinavia and only see trees, mountains and animals. Unless you count Tromsø, with 73k people, as a major city, there is only wilderness and villages between Trondheim and the North cape (63-71 deg North).In Sweden, nothing is worth mentioning north of Stockholm (59 deg north), and the civilized section of Finland stops at Oulu (65 deg North).
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The author has never lived in the USA.
Total clickbait article and probably cribbed from somewhere else. Let's hope she made a bit of cash from us all visiting her page.
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This article is incredibly supercilious
and sharp to the point of asperity?
The air conditioning thing is VERY real
It's real, but I've never met anyone who actually liked it. I mean, I enjoy appropriate air conditioning (bring the temperature down to 80 if it's 100 outside) but every woman I have ever gone anywhere with in the summer has complained that restaurants/retail are TOO COLD
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Americans have also spent a lot of money saving Europeans from their own mass murderers. Hey anyone remember the great heatwave in France about 15 years ago when the Frenchies without their AC were dropping dead like flies from the heat? It reached like 105F in France boo hoo. Poor babies didn't know they had to drink water when it was hot. Thank goodness it doesn't get THAT HOT anywhere in the US once every 500 years. What with our unnecessary use of AC and all...
And why the hell would I want to go to dinner parties all the time? It seems like all Europeans do all day is eat dinner anyway. I got other shit to do, like drive around on my Italian motorcycle.
Stereotypes are fun. Especially when they're coming from overprivvied eurotrash millennials.
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Americans have also spent a lot of money saving Europeans from their own mass murderers. Hey anyone remember the great heatwave in France about 15 years ago when the Frenchies without their AC were dropping dead like flies from the heat? It reached like 105F in France boo hoo. Poor babies didn't know they had to drink water when it was hot. Thank goodness it doesn't get THAT HOT anywhere in the US once every 500 years. What with our unnecessary use of AC and all...
And why the hell would I want to go to dinner parties all the time? It seems like all Europeans do all day is eat dinner anyway. I got other shit to do, like drive around on my Italian motorcycle.
Stereotypes are fun. Especially when they're coming from overprivvied eurotrash millennials.
Woah. Sure, there were some ridiculous eye rollers in there, but this seems like a bit of an overreaction.
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Americans have also spent a lot of money saving Europeans from their own mass murderers. Hey anyone remember the great heatwave in France about 15 years ago when the Frenchies without their AC were dropping dead like flies from the heat? It reached like 105F in France boo hoo. Poor babies didn't know they had to drink water when it was hot. Thank goodness it doesn't get THAT HOT anywhere in the US once every 500 years. What with our unnecessary use of AC and all...
And why the hell would I want to go to dinner parties all the time? It seems like all Europeans do all day is eat dinner anyway. I got other shit to do, like drive around on my Italian motorcycle.
Stereotypes are fun. Especially when they're coming from overprivvied eurotrash millennials.
Woah. Sure, there were some ridiculous eye rollers in there, but this seems like a bit of an overreaction.
Lets be generous and call it a caricature
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What all of these foreigners who complain about how Americans consume don't understand is that consumption is a function of cost and availability.
Americans consume more, live in bigger homes, upgrade their electronics more often, etc because it is much more inexpensive to do so here than in Germany, Spain, etc.
We drive big sedans, SUVs, trucks, and sports cars because in the USA because they're more affordable than in the UK/EU. The money you pay here for a sports car gets you a Fiesta or a Focus overseas.
The money you pay for a 2,500 square foot home in the suburbs here gives you a 2 bedroom 1,000 square foot apartment in Europe.
The point isn't that the USA is better or worse or that Americans consume too much or too little. The point is that consumption is tied to cost and availability. If the cost were higher, we'd consume less, it's that simple.
If the costs were lower in EU, they'd consume more, hands down.
Now whether or not we consume too much, that's up to each individual to decide.
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Now whether or not we consume too much, that's up to each individual to decide.
That line of thinking has brought us to the current world environmental state that exists today.
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The air conditioning thing is VERY real
It's real, but I've never met anyone who actually liked it. I mean, I enjoy appropriate air conditioning (bring the temperature down to 80 if it's 100 outside) but every woman I have ever gone anywhere with in the summer has complained that restaurants/retail are TOO COLD
You've never met my wife. She does get cold in restaurants, but she keeps our A/C at home at 70 most of the time.
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What all of these foreigners who complain about how Americans consume don't understand is that consumption is a function of cost and availability.
You really can't compare prices that easily.... Just within Germany an average 4 bedroom house can cost anywhere between 25K (outside small towns in eastern Germany) and 1 million (Hamburg or Munich).
Even in the US consumption really differs. What is a smart choice in New York or Boston, would be unthinkable in Los Angeles or San Diego, like paying several 100K for a parking spot. There are so many things that you in the US pay much more than we in Germany on average, yet they remain popular. Cars, mobile phone, internet, restaurant, cable come to my mind.
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What all of these foreigners who complain about how Americans consume don't understand is that consumption is a function of cost and availability.
You really can't compare prices that easily.... Just within Germany an average 4 bedroom house can cost anywhere between 25K (outside small towns in eastern Germany) and 1 million (Hamburg or Munich).
Even in the US consumption really differs. What is a smart choice in New York or Boston, would be unthinkable in Los Angeles or San Diego, like paying several 100K for a parking spot. There are so many things that you in the US pay much more than we in Germany on average, yet they remain popular. Cars, mobile phone, internet, restaurant, cable come to my mind.
So your position is that it's smart to pay several 100k for a parking spot in NY?
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So your position is that it's smart to pay several 100k for a parking spot in NY?
Things like that don't exist in London or Paris? Would/could they if those places were in highly land competitive areas like say... an island?
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Agreed that the space is much more limited in Europe. Because of this, Europeans have to spend more TIME doing things. I feel as though the (short-term) mustachian tradeoff is TIME for MONEY, for EUROPEANS it would look like SPACE for TIME, and normal consumerist Americans it would be MONEY for SPACE.
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Yep and for some of us, living in a tiny apartment means we have to entertain ourselves by going out and doing something. All you can do at home is eat, read, and watch TV. I've lived like that. Glad it works for some but I hated it.
Our garage shop, yard for playing with kids and pets, neighborhood (for walks), etc. is what keeps us sane.
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I've never been to Europe. But one thing that struck me in particular was the comment about poor building materials. I lived in Japan for 3 years. One of the things I really hated about Japan was the way houses were built. The thin walls with no insulation in them, the leaky single paned windows, the bathroom and kitchen plugs near water sources that don't have GFC and seem like potential fire/electric shock hazards... I've lived in all sorts of places in the US and they all have felt pretty luxuriously built compared to Japanese houses. This includes the oldest, cruddiest places I've lived too.
Also, #8 - I wish there was more/better public transportation in the US. But the US is HUGE. Most European countries are fairly small. France is smaller than Texas, and that's only 1 of our states. It's just hard to pull off good public transportation logistically.
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The air conditioning thing is VERY real
It's real, but I've never met anyone who actually liked it. I mean, I enjoy appropriate air conditioning (bring the temperature down to 80 if it's 100 outside) but every woman I have ever gone anywhere with in the summer has complained that restaurants/retail are TOO COLD
Doesn't that make it even stupider though?
To all those who say "whoa AC is great we need that"
Of course, it would be idiotic to say that since in the alps we don't have AC you shouldn't have it in Orlando as well.
The point is: if it's 110 F outside why the hell do you need to keep sub 70 temperature inside?
I will never forget when I checked into my room in Houston (it was July or August) and the AC was set to 67.
SIXTY SEVEN DEGREES!
What all of these foreigners who complain about how Americans consume don't understand is that consumption is a function of cost and availability.
Americans consume more, live in bigger homes, upgrade their electronics more often, etc because it is much more inexpensive to do so here than in Germany, Spain, etc.
We drive big sedans, SUVs, trucks, and sports cars because in the USA because they're more affordable than in the UK/EU. The money you pay here for a sports car gets you a Fiesta or a Focus overseas.
The money you pay for a 2,500 square foot home in the suburbs here gives you a 2 bedroom 1,000 square foot apartment in Europe.
The point isn't that the USA is better or worse or that Americans consume too much or too little. The point is that consumption is tied to cost and availability. If the cost were higher, we'd consume less, it's that simple.
If the costs were lower in EU, they'd consume more, hands down.
Now whether or not we consume too much, that's up to each individual to decide.
Europeans save more in % of income
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The point is: if it's 110 F outside why the hell do you need to keep sub 70 temperature inside?
The only reasonable purpose would be if people have been walking around outside for a while and are hyperthermic (even if slightly) and need to cool down quickly. Maybe it would make sense for the foyer to be at a lower temperature. But of course most people aren't walking around in 110 F heat, they are coming directly from their air conditioned car. With the exception of outdoor malls, amusement parks, and so forth and so on.
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I still don't get where the not-washing stereotype comes from...
I think it is because many (most?) don't use deodorant in Europe.
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I still don't get where the not-washing stereotype comes from...
I think it is because many (most?) don't use deodorant in FRANCE.
Fixed that for you.
;)
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The point is: if it's 110 F outside why the hell do you need to keep sub 70 temperature inside?
The only reasonable purpose would be if people have been walking around outside for a while and are hyperthermic (even if slightly) and need to cool down quickly. Maybe it would make sense for the foyer to be at a lower temperature. But of course most people aren't walking around in 110 F heat, they are coming directly from their air conditioned car. With the exception of outdoor malls, amusement parks, and so forth and so on.
Here's another possibility. In centrally cooled zones,the room with the thermostat may be substantially cooler to begin with, leaving the other rooms warmer. When I visit my sister, she kindly turns their AC down to 68 or 70 because their bedroom (with the thermostat) is better insulated, has an attic above, trees outside, and corner Windows. The guest bedrooms are in the front of the house with no attic cover, vaulted ceilings, no shade trees, and very little air flow. They have to sleep under layers of covers for the other occupants to be remotely comfortable.
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So your position is that it's smart to pay several 100k for a parking spot in NY?
I should have said: "what may be a smart choice"... 100k for a parking spot can absolutely be a smart choice, if you make several times that annually, you save billable time, and plan to work another 40 years in that place or expect to sell it for more. Not likely the case for anyone here, though.
But one thing that struck me in particular was the comment about poor building materials.
That's another perception issue...
In most countries in at least Western Europe houses are made from brick stone or steel and concrete. Sheds are made out of wood. Every time there's another hurricane or flood in the US, our news are full of pictures of US houses that collapsed like a card house. So people here equate building material suitable for sheds only used in an area with frequent natural disasters and come to the conclusion that clearly that's the inferior choice.
Things are changing slowly, though. The number of houses made out of wood here is increasing.
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In most countries in at least Western Europe houses are made from brick stone or steel and concrete. Sheds are made out of wood. Every time there's another hurricane or flood in the US, our news are full of pictures of US houses that collapsed like a card house. So people here equate building material suitable for sheds only used in an area with frequent natural disasters and come to the conclusion that clearly that's the inferior choice.
Things are changing slowly, though. The number of houses made out of wood here is increasing.
For those in earthquake country (US West coast) brick doesn't handle earthquakes as well as wood structures. Steel reinforcement makes brick safer, but there's still the issue of expensive damage repair because it doesn't flex the way wood does. Steel works well, though not a lot of houses are built with this...a cost issue?
Interesting historical note: Most of the redwood forests in my area were clear cut in the 19th century largely to fire kilns for producing lime, which was used to manufacture bricks. We learned from the 1906 earthquake that bricks are not a good building material out here, so the lime kilns went into decline and the forests in the Santa Cruz mountains were able to regrow after an initial logging boom to supply lumber for the SF rebuild. http://www.parks.ca.gov/?page_id=912
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Many thanks for the historical note. That'll help in future discussions.
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In most countries in at least Western Europe houses are made from brick stone or steel and concrete. Sheds are made out of wood. Every time there's another hurricane or flood in the US, our news are full of pictures of US houses that collapsed like a card house. So people here equate building material suitable for sheds only used in an area with frequent natural disasters and come to the conclusion that clearly that's the inferior choice.
Things are changing slowly, though. The number of houses made out of wood here is increasing.
For those in earthquake country (US West coast) brick doesn't handle earthquakes as well as wood structures. Steel reinforcement makes brick safer, but there's still the issue of expensive damage repair because it doesn't flex the way wood does. Steel works well, though not a lot of houses are built with this...a cost issue?
Interesting historical note: Most of the redwood forests in my area were clear cut in the 19th century largely to fire kilns for producing lime, which was used to manufacture bricks. We learned from the 1906 earthquake that bricks are not a good building material out here, so the lime kilns went into decline and the forests in the Santa Cruz mountains were able to regrow after an initial logging boom to supply lumber for the SF rebuild. http://www.parks.ca.gov/?page_id=912
A lot of that redwood was also used for homes-- if you see older construction a lot of it has amazing lumber compared to modern lumber
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I still don't get where the not-washing stereotype comes from...
I think it is because many (most?) don't use deodorant in FRANCE.
Good grief. As someone who lived there for 11 years I can quite categorically say that there is no truth there. If anything the french are more fastidious about personal hygiene that most other countries.... I find it barbaric that US houses do not have a bidet. And no, you don't use it for washing your feet!!
Fixed that for you.
;)
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I still don't get where the not-washing stereotype comes from...
I think it is because many (most?) don't use deodorant in FRANCE.
Good grief. As someone who lived there for 11 years I can quite categorically say that there is no truth there. If anything the french are more fastidious about personal hygiene that most other countries.... I find it barbaric that US houses do not have a bidet. And no, you don't use it for washing your feet!!
Fixed that for you.
;)
A bidet is the hight of civilization, especially as a lady-person during a certain time of the month. I regret not having one in my house SO MUCH.
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Think this is more the people you associate with and has less to do with "Americans".
Not based on the numbers, and I do keep track. To throw a good dinner party I have to keep notes on my guests' work schedules, dietary needs, personalities, and interests. It's part of intelligent hosting and it makes me better able to choose a successful menu and schedule. My mother did a lot of corporate and industrial diplomatic entertaining, and I learned from her. So, there's a science to group entertaining and statistics plays a part. Demographics can be relevant.
I'd estimate my statistical sampling size at well over 250 households
I'm curious about your methodology that lends you to characterize an entire country with such sweeping generalizations but I suspect your sample size and\or sample pool doesn't warrant such statements
I'm surprised to see so much pushback against this article.
I'm sure not all Europeans are better on all counts, but none of the ten things she listed should be controversial as unnecessary "luxuries" that are commonplace in the U.S. (and many of these phenomena have a neutral effect on quality of life at best).
I was nodding my head along in agreement that all 10 are problems with the U.S.
Well some of them don't make a lot of sense. Bemoaning the lack of public transportation in the US compared to European countries without acknowledging that European countries are 4-16x more urban is ignoring a rather significant issue. This isn't to say certain areas don't fall flat *cough* LA *cough* but there is a bit more to the story than the 'love to drive'
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjIiafst5PNAhVWUVIKHbOUBQMQFggcMAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.lincolninst.edu%2Fsubcenters%2Fatlas-urban-expansion%2Fdocuments%2Ftable-urban-land-cover-data.xls&usg=AFQjCNGA_W99T-KeuKYZDAv6DImu2wbakg&sig2=2eLynvOLS28ETpoPmg2Iag&bvm=bv.123664746,d.aXo (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjIiafst5PNAhVWUVIKHbOUBQMQFggcMAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.lincolninst.edu%2Fsubcenters%2Fatlas-urban-expansion%2Fdocuments%2Ftable-urban-land-cover-data.xls&usg=AFQjCNGA_W99T-KeuKYZDAv6DImu2wbakg&sig2=2eLynvOLS28ETpoPmg2Iag&bvm=bv.123664746,d.aXo)
(a bit older but an easy comparison area using the same definition of urban and rural)
Air conditioning is another one. Again this isn't to say that its not a problem in some areas but a good chunk of the US population lives in an area much more humid than Western Europe (Where the author seems to spend a lot of time?). Weather patterns in the US also mean that areas as far north as Minnesota and Michigan will get frequent periods of high temperatures plus high humidity compared to Western European areas. Most people seem to discuss temperatures without acknowledging (or realizing?) the impact humidity has on comfort so regional humidity differences tend to have an impact on perception of temperature.I'm sure if she had spent time in or talking to someone from Seattle or Maui about air conditioning she would have gotten a different impression
https://www.climate.gov/sites/default/files/GlobalSpecificHumidity2013_1440.jpg (https://www.climate.gov/sites/default/files/GlobalSpecificHumidity2013_1440.jpg)
http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/data/as-seattle-sweats-few-air-conditioners-cool-us-down/ (http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/data/as-seattle-sweats-few-air-conditioners-cool-us-down/)
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"1. Takeout, takeout, takeout. ... At that point, with the delivery charges, tips, and fees, why not just take a book and go sit at the actual restaurant? The food would be better and you’d be getting an “experience” along with it for your money. But I know the point is convenience, even if I don’t understand it."
The guy is mathematically challenged. "Take out" (and he means delivery, "take out" can just be stopping by KFC on the way home from work) costs LESS typically.
Sure, you might pay a few bucks for a delivery fee. And you'll probably tip the driver a couple of bucks on top of that.
So for a $60 delivery meal for 4 people, you might pay $7 or $8 in fees and tips.
But you eat that same meal in the restaurant, and you pay $9 or $12 in tips. That's already more than you pay for the delivery. On top of that, you have to burn gas to get to the restaurant, if it's not right in your neigborhood, that's probably a few dollars more.
So why not read your book in the comfort of your home, rather than in a loud restaurant, and save money as well?
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Northern Norway has a population density of 11 persons per sqmi. For the US, this is the same as ND and SD, and only Alaska, Wyoming and Montana have less people per sqmi. Driving from Trondheim to Kirkenes (without crossing into Sweden or Finland) takes 27 hours (total distance 1200 miles). If you go the coastal route (where the people live) the distances are twice as long, and you need to rely on a lot of car ferries and passenger boats. If you use the methodology from exterous' file, there are zero large cities and zero urban land usage in this region.
No matter where you live in Norway, you have legal right to public transport. It is sometimes solved by taxis or taxi boats, the cruise line Hurtigruten gets public funding to service 34 towns and villages daily (26 of those in the north), and there are a lot of tiny airports. In the most remote areas, the bus might only stop twice a week, but it is available. If you live in a town with a few thousand people or more, you normally don't need to own a car. All towns and villages are walkable (to a larger or smaller degree). There are also governmental programs to ensure that all small and remote villages have access to a grocery store and fuel.
I have no idea how the public transport works in North and South Dakota. It might be similar to what I described, it might be better. My prejudice says it is probably not, but feel free to correct me.
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1. Takeout
Yup
2. Pre packaged foods
Definitely, my coworkers enjoy microwaving their lunch
3. Fast Fashion
No, but I'm a dude
4. Extreme AC / Heat
Yes, was just in Florida, with 98 degree temperatures but was freezing inside the hotel even wearing pants / long sleeved shirt
5. Big homes on small lots
Yes yes yes! McMansions are the worst!
6. Bulk Grocery
Definitely - but this isn't a bad thing for certain things
7. Constantly new electronics
Aha. Coworkers buy the latest 70 inch smart phone
8. Cars
Truly abysmal traffic, clown car driving abounds
9. Gym memberships
$200 per month to do crossfit is the norm among my coworkers, and their gym doesn't have AC/Heat
10. Restaurants
True, but Europeans love cafes and pubs too
Overall - very accurate, not understanding why 90% of the comments here are critical. I have lots of respect for other countries that have the wisdom of a much longer history, especially with food. Most impressed with health of Asian / Mediterranean diets.
People tend to become extremely defensive when their "tribe" or lifestyle are criticized by someone they perceive as an outsider. I'm sure few of the people here indulge in the 10 items in the list but the tone of the article and age/nationality of the writer seems to put people on the defensive.
Such reactions seem to become more prevalent all the time as people become more polarized in their perspectives at which point anyone with a slightly divergent opinion becomes an outsider (hipster, snob, millennial, privileged...whatever label is convenient).
Now off to warm up a frozen pizza!
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Actually, most Americans I've met are pretty good about laughing about themselves and their quirks . . . when spoken by another American. If the writer said that she was from Texas, I bet this thread wouldn't have raised any eyebrows at all. There's a nasty jingoistic undercurrent that seems to take hold when the person making the observations is a foreigner though. I've noticed this more with the US than any other country, and suspect that it's related to the rather large amount of flag waving (in comparison to other countries) that goes on in the states.
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Actually, most Americans I've met are pretty good about laughing about themselves and their quirks . . . when spoken by another American. If the writer said that she was from Texas, I bet this thread wouldn't have raised any eyebrows at all. There's a nasty jingoistic undercurrent that seems to take hold when the person making the observations is a foreigner though. I've noticed this more with the US than any other country, and suspect that it's related to the rather large amount of flag waving (in comparison to other countries) that goes on in the states.
The same is true of pretty much every country, state, town, family etc (ie tribes, cliques etc). But hey I'm sure your experience with the world is so much broader than everybody that you can make sweeping statements about other tribes and not sound like a jackass.
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Actually, most Americans I've met are pretty good about laughing about themselves and their quirks . . . when spoken by another American. If the writer said that she was from Texas, I bet this thread wouldn't have raised any eyebrows at all. There's a nasty jingoistic undercurrent that seems to take hold when the person making the observations is a foreigner though. I've noticed this more with the US than any other country, and suspect that it's related to the rather large amount of flag waving (in comparison to other countries) that goes on in the states.
The same is true of pretty much every country, state, town, family etc (ie tribes, cliques etc). But hey I'm sure your experience with the world is so much broader than everybody that you can make sweeping statements about other tribes and not sound like a jackass.
^ Case in point.
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Actually, most Americans I've met are pretty good about laughing about themselves and their quirks . . . when spoken by another American. If the writer said that she was from Texas, I bet this thread wouldn't have raised any eyebrows at all. There's a nasty jingoistic undercurrent that seems to take hold when the person making the observations is a foreigner though. I've noticed this more with the US than any other country, and suspect that it's related to the rather large amount of flag waving (in comparison to other countries) that goes on in the states.
The same is true of pretty much every country, state, town, family etc (ie tribes, cliques etc). But hey I'm sure your experience with the world is so much broader than everybody that you can make sweeping statements about other tribes and not sound like a jackass.
^ Case in point.
Saying "case in point" doesn't actually make it so. The point was that making sweeping generalizations about other tribes makes you sound like a jackass regardless of your tribe. Your whole post was the "case in point". Turning around and saying it too is a bit of "I know I am but what are you" childish behavior all too common on the interwebs.
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Northern Norway has a population density of 11 persons per sqmi. For the US, this is the same as ND and SD, and only Alaska, Wyoming and Montana have less people per sqmi. Driving from Trondheim to Kirkenes (without crossing into Sweden or Finland) takes 27 hours (total distance 1200 miles). If you go the coastal route (where the people live) the distances are twice as long, and you need to rely on a lot of car ferries and passenger boats. If you use the methodology from exterous' file, there are zero large cities and zero urban land usage in this region.
No matter where you live in Norway, you have legal right to public transport. It is sometimes solved by taxis or taxi boats, the cruise line Hurtigruten gets public funding to service 34 towns and villages daily (26 of those in the north), and there are a lot of tiny airports. In the most remote areas, the bus might only stop twice a week, but it is available. If you live in a town with a few thousand people or more, you normally don't need to own a car. All towns and villages are walkable (to a larger or smaller degree). There are also governmental programs to ensure that all small and remote villages have access to a grocery store and fuel.
I have no idea how the public transport works in North and South Dakota. It might be similar to what I described, it might be better. My prejudice says it is probably not, but feel free to correct me.
A country that is long and thin, like Norway, is going to have a huge advantage over many US states. If memory serves most of Norway's northern population lives within a very short distance of a single road - E6 (and maybe 838?). This is a huge transportation logistical advantage over states in the US that about 4x as wide as Norway (South Dakota but obviously varies) as the routes will be concentrated and constrained in scope. There are states that have comparable population density distributions like Alaska where the population is clustered along a few routes. They also happen to have a capable transportation system in the form of trains, ferries and bus routes. So, while over all population density is important, distribution is also a factor
Again this isn't to say there aren't areas in the US that can't do better with public transportation as there absolutely are but that doesn't mean that its as easy as pointing to a different area and saying "but it works here."
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Actually, most Americans I've met are pretty good about laughing about themselves and their quirks . . . when spoken by another American. If the writer said that she was from Texas, I bet this thread wouldn't have raised any eyebrows at all. There's a nasty jingoistic undercurrent that seems to take hold when the person making the observations is a foreigner though. I've noticed this more with the US than any other country, and suspect that it's related to the rather large amount of flag waving (in comparison to other countries) that goes on in the states.
The same is true of pretty much every country, state, town, family etc (ie tribes, cliques etc). But hey I'm sure your experience with the world is so much broader than everybody that you can make sweeping statements about other tribes and not sound like a jackass.
^ Case in point.
Saying "case in point" doesn't actually make it so. The point was that making sweeping generalizations about other tribes makes you sound like a jackass regardless of your tribe. Your whole post was the "case in point". Turning around and saying it too is a bit of "I know I am but what are you" childish behavior all too common on the interwebs.
Look, I like the US. By and large, the Americans I've met when visiting and the tourists from the US here have all been great people. But there are certain patterns that have popped up time and again that I noticed. The sort of angry hyper-defensiveness that you demonstrated is I was referring to in my post. It's specifically when someone from another country criticizes or jokes about something that is 'typically American'. That's why I said 'case in point' when you responded angrily at my comment.
This is not a reaction that I've noticed from the other Canadians, Europeans, or Asians when someone from another country makes simple observations about their home country . . . when it's generally laughed off, or agreed with. Of course not all sweeping generalizations are true every time and for every American, but they are true often enough that people notice them.
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Some of the stuff seems pretty uncontroversial, like the A/C bit.
I've noticed that most people around me in set the temperature warmer in their buildings in the winter and cooler in the summer. Bit like waaaaay too much. In my office I'm unable to wear long sleeve winter weight shirts during the winter because I'd be sweating all day long. In the summer I can't wear short sleeved summer weight shirts because it's freezing cold. That's silly.
you live in canada of course you dont need AC. i wouldnt need to use mine if it werent for the humidity in the summer here in KC. we get temps into the 70s at night still right now but guess what its 80-90% humidity so you cant really open the windows and let all that in. europeans dont need ac b/c their climate is milder. this take on AC is akin to someone from mexico writing about how idiotic heaters are for canadians. i assume you're wasteful and use heat in your house - HOW DARE YOU!!!.
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Some of the stuff seems pretty uncontroversial, like the A/C bit.
I've noticed that most people around me in set the temperature warmer in their buildings in the winter and cooler in the summer. Bit like waaaaay too much. In my office I'm unable to wear long sleeve winter weight shirts during the winter because I'd be sweating all day long. In the summer I can't wear short sleeved summer weight shirts because it's freezing cold. That's silly.
you live in canada of course you dont need AC. i wouldnt need to use mine if it werent for the humidity in the summer here in KC. we get temps into the 70s at night still right now but guess what its 80-90% humidity so you cant really open the windows and let all that in. europeans dont need ac b/c their climate is milder. this take on AC is akin to someone from mexico writing about how idiotic heaters are for canadians. i assume you're wasteful and use heat in your house - HOW DARE YOU!!!.
You might be surprised, Toronto actually gets pretty warm in the summer months. We'll often get a week or two during the summer with highs in the upper 30s (around 100 F) and humidity around 90 - 100%.
It's not the use of A/C that seems silly, but when you use the A/C to keep temperatures below what you would have during the summer, and then heat to above what you would have during the winter. That's pretty common practice around here and drives me nuts.
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Actually, most Americans I've met are pretty good about laughing about themselves and their quirks . . . when spoken by another American. If the writer said that she was from Texas, I bet this thread wouldn't have raised any eyebrows at all. There's a nasty jingoistic undercurrent that seems to take hold when the person making the observations is a foreigner though. I've noticed this more with the US than any other country, and suspect that it's related to the rather large amount of flag waving (in comparison to other countries) that goes on in the states.
The same is true of pretty much every country, state, town, family etc (ie tribes, cliques etc). But hey I'm sure your experience with the world is so much broader than everybody that you can make sweeping statements about other tribes and not sound like a jackass.
^ Case in point.
Saying "case in point" doesn't actually make it so. The point was that making sweeping generalizations about other tribes makes you sound like a jackass regardless of your tribe. Your whole post was the "case in point". Turning around and saying it too is a bit of "I know I am but what are you" childish behavior all too common on the interwebs.
Look, I like the US. By and large, the Americans I've met when visiting and the tourists from the US here have all been great people. But there are certain patterns that have popped up time and again that I noticed. The sort of angry hyper-defensiveness that you demonstrated is I was referring to in my post. It's specifically when someone from another country criticizes or jokes about something that is 'typically American'. That's why I said 'case in point' when you responded angrily at my comment.
This is not a reaction that I've noticed from the other Canadians, Europeans, or Asians when someone from another country makes simple observations about their home country . . . when it's generally laughed off, or agreed with. Of course not all sweeping generalizations are true every time and for every American, but they are true often enough that people notice them.
Perhaps it's the constant perception of external scrutiny from outsiders that causes the defensiveness. I've noticed the same thing in Alberta in response to criticism of the oil sands and Keystone. Even people that have no skin in the game seem to react strongly to any criticism from outside (even other provinces). This didn't seem to be the case until the last few years when foreign media coverage of the oil sands really picked up. It's as if many citizens feel personally bullied or insulted even if they previously didn't give a shit about the industry. Everything America does is the subject of external criticism, so I can totally understand this knee jerk defensiveness.
Anyone have any recommended reading on the phenomenon? I'm genuinely curious as to why people get personally offended these things.
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I like your post Moustaches. I would like to add hamburgers, monster trucks and politeness (maybe this is superficial, but it's still nice) to your list. Also, most people in a service role seem really good at their jobs. I'm sure others would disagree, but I'm always amazed at how smoothly things seem to run in the states.
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I like your post Moustaches. I would like to add hamburgers, monster trucks and politeness (maybe this is superficial, but it's still nice) to your list. Also, most people in a service role seem really good at their jobs. I'm sure others would disagree, but I'm always amazed at how smoothly things seem to run in the states.
I agree! The advantage of everyone working long hours, brutal layoffs, and overall efficiency of American corporations is that as a consumer you get better service.
Except Comcast subscribers.
Huh - well that's a depressing reason. I still like the burgers...though I am now saddened to know that they are made with the blood, sweat and tears (possibly literally) of the staff. Your theory does seem to be at odds with the apparent politeness though.
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Actually, most Americans I've met are pretty good about laughing about themselves and their quirks . . . when spoken by another American. If the writer said that she was from Texas, I bet this thread wouldn't have raised any eyebrows at all. There's a nasty jingoistic undercurrent that seems to take hold when the person making the observations is a foreigner though. I've noticed this more with the US than any other country, and suspect that it's related to the rather large amount of flag waving (in comparison to other countries) that goes on in the states.
The same is true of pretty much every country, state, town, family etc (ie tribes, cliques etc). But hey I'm sure your experience with the world is so much broader than everybody that you can make sweeping statements about other tribes and not sound like a jackass.
^ Case in point.
Saying "case in point" doesn't actually make it so. The point was that making sweeping generalizations about other tribes makes you sound like a jackass regardless of your tribe. Your whole post was the "case in point". Turning around and saying it too is a bit of "I know I am but what are you" childish behavior all too common on the interwebs.
Look, I like the US. By and large, the Americans I've met when visiting and the tourists from the US here have all been great people. But there are certain patterns that have popped up time and again that I noticed. The sort of angry hyper-defensiveness that you demonstrated is I was referring to in my post. It's specifically when someone from another country criticizes or jokes about something that is 'typically American'. That's why I said 'case in point' when you responded angrily at my comment.
This is not a reaction that I've noticed from the other Canadians, Europeans, or Asians when someone from another country makes simple observations about their home country . . . when it's generally laughed off, or agreed with. Of course not all sweeping generalizations are true every time and for every American, but they are true often enough that people notice them.
Please point out where my replies to you are hyper-defensive about US criticism? I was merely pointing out that making blanket statements based on anecdotal evidence (ie "people you met") is a good recipe for looking like a jackass. We've all done it (myself included), it's what anonymous internet forums do to otherwise reasonable people.
I don't just have an issue with this article, I have an issue with all people that make stupid blanket statements about places or people they barely know. For every stereotype I've ever heard of a particular place or people I've always found it to be otherwise when I visited the place. I guess if someone wants to complain about something they'll always find a way.
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This is not a reaction that I've noticed from the other Canadians, Europeans, or Asians when someone from another country makes simple observations about their home country . . . when it's generally laughed off, or agreed with. Of course not all sweeping generalizations are true every time and for every American, but they are true often enough that people notice them.
Really? Go tell a Frenchman what's wrong with France or a German how Germany is wrong and get back to me. Americans, in my (relatively limited, I'll admit) experience, take themselves far less seriously than many Europeans.
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I'm Italian, I lived in the USA 6 years and I believe the Us is the awesomest country on earth by a significant margin.
Still, that doesn't mean Americans do not do anything stupid.
It's a FACT that American are on average the most wasteful (in terms of resources) humans on earth.
Bigger cars
Cooler AC
Bigger homes
Lower savings
These are not opinions, you can look up the stats for yourself.
A country that is long and thin, like Norway, is going to have a huge advantage over many US states. If memory serves most of Norway's northern population lives within a very short distance of a single road - E6 (and maybe 838?). This is a huge transportation logistical advantage over states in the US that about 4x as wide as Norway (South Dakota but obviously varies) as the routes will be concentrated and constrained in scope. There are states that have comparable population density distributions like Alaska where the population is clustered along a few routes. They also happen to have a capable transportation system in the form of trains, ferries and bus routes. So, while over all population density is important, distribution is also a factor
Again this isn't to say there aren't areas in the US that can't do better with public transportation as there absolutely are but that doesn't mean that its as easy as pointing to a different area and saying "but it works here."
I thought I heard it all, but Norway having an advantage in public transport potential over the USA because of geology is one of the best ever.
Norway is essentially made of mountains, fjords and ice.
It's incredibly long and thin, has ZERO plains and it's almost impossible to go on a straight line from point a to point b
A good chunk of the country has multiple months with only a few hours of sunlight per year
It's scarcely populated.
If I had to rank all the world countries by how easy it would be to implement a functioning public transportation system, Norway would be just a tad above Antarctica, Greenland and maybe Mordor
you live in canada of course you dont need AC. i wouldnt need to use mine if it werent for the humidity in the summer here in KC. we get temps into the 70s at night still right now but guess what its 80-90% humidity so you cant really open the windows and let all that in. europeans dont need ac b/c their climate is milder. this take on AC is akin to someone from mexico writing about how idiotic heaters are for canadians. i assume you're wasteful and use heat in your house - HOW DARE YOU!!!.
I cannot believe we are still discussing this
IT'S NOT THE AC's EXISTENCE, IT'S THE 68 F INSIDE WHEN THERE'S 105 F OUTSIDE.
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And what's the "right" temperature? Until there's a movement to allow businessmen to dress for the climate, instead of wearing dress pants and long sleeves every day, 68* is pretty close to a comfy temp for me.
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I'm Italian, I lived in the USA 6 years and I believe the Us is the awesomest country on earth by a significant margin.
Still, that doesn't mean Americans do not do anything stupid.
It's a FACT that American are on average the most wasteful (in terms of resources) humans on earth.
Bigger cars
Cooler AC
Bigger homes
Lower savings
These are not opinions, you can look up the stats for yourself.
A country that is long and thin, like Norway, is going to have a huge advantage over many US states. If memory serves most of Norway's northern population lives within a very short distance of a single road - E6 (and maybe 838?). This is a huge transportation logistical advantage over states in the US that about 4x as wide as Norway (South Dakota but obviously varies) as the routes will be concentrated and constrained in scope. There are states that have comparable population density distributions like Alaska where the population is clustered along a few routes. They also happen to have a capable transportation system in the form of trains, ferries and bus routes. So, while over all population density is important, distribution is also a factor
Again this isn't to say there aren't areas in the US that can't do better with public transportation as there absolutely are but that doesn't mean that its as easy as pointing to a different area and saying "but it works here."
I thought I heard it all, but Norway having an advantage in public transport potential over the USA because of geology is one of the best ever.
Norway is essentially made of mountains, fjords and ice.
It's incredibly long and thin, has ZERO plains and it's almost impossible to go on a straight line from point a to point b
A good chunk of the country has multiple months with only a few hours of sunlight per year
It's scarcely populated.
If I had to rank all the world countries by how easy it would be to implement a functioning public transportation system, Norway would be just a tad above Antarctica, Greenland and maybe Mordor
you live in canada of course you dont need AC. i wouldnt need to use mine if it werent for the humidity in the summer here in KC. we get temps into the 70s at night still right now but guess what its 80-90% humidity so you cant really open the windows and let all that in. europeans dont need ac b/c their climate is milder. this take on AC is akin to someone from mexico writing about how idiotic heaters are for canadians. i assume you're wasteful and use heat in your house - HOW DARE YOU!!!.
I cannot believe we are still discussing this
IT'S NOT THE AC's EXISTENCE, IT'S THE 68 F INSIDE WHEN THERE'S 105 F OUTSIDE.n
I believe that Canada is now #1 for energy usage. Take that America! We're #1! Imagine a goose soaring majestically to coincide with that statement please.
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And what's the "right" temperature? Until there's a movement to allow businessmen to dress for the climate, instead of wearing dress pants and long sleeves every day, 68* is pretty close to a comfy temp for me.
Which is GREAT, until the women in the office are expected to wear sheath dresses and heels, in which case we all bloody freeze. Or wear pants and blazers and long sleeves like the men do, and then get comments about being 'unprofessional' and 'dressing inappropriately for the season' and that kind of BS. (Yes, this actually happened to me. From a woman, for the record.)
Frankly, I'm ALL FOR making corporate office-wear weather-appropriate - pants and short-sleeved shirts for men, or whatever. And then everyone can be sensibly attired for the season and we can stop wasting energy on cooling down buildings so that people need extra sweaters in the middle of summer.
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I feel like there are a lot of people overestimating the precision with which a large office building's temperature can be regulated. The only thing for certain is that some proportion of people in the office are going to be uncomfortable no matter what the temp is.
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I feel like there are a lot of people overestimating the precision with which a large office building's temperature can be regulated. The only thing for certain is that some proportion of people in the office are going to be uncomfortable no matter what the temp is.
Wouldn't it be great if management recognized this and let people pick whether they'd rather work in the 'warm spot' or the 'cold spot' given their personal heat/cold tolerance, and let everyone get on with doing work and doing less whining about the office temperature?
Oh, wait. That would make sense. Never mind.
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And what's the "right" temperature? Until there's a movement to allow businessmen to dress for the climate, instead of wearing dress pants and long sleeves every day, 68* is pretty close to a comfy temp for me.
Which is GREAT, until the women in the office are expected to wear sheath dresses and heels, in which case we all bloody freeze. Or wear pants and blazers and long sleeves like the men do, and then get comments about being 'unprofessional' and 'dressing inappropriately for the season' and that kind of BS. (Yes, this actually happened to me. From a woman, for the record.)
So basically, women set standards for women and then make other women adhere to them even though they are inappropriate for the ambient temp? Got it. :)
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And what's the "right" temperature? Until there's a movement to allow businessmen to dress for the climate, instead of wearing dress pants and long sleeves every day, 68* is pretty close to a comfy temp for me.
Which is GREAT, until the women in the office are expected to wear sheath dresses and heels, in which case we all bloody freeze. Or wear pants and blazers and long sleeves like the men do, and then get comments about being 'unprofessional' and 'dressing inappropriately for the season' and that kind of BS. (Yes, this actually happened to me. From a woman, for the record.)
So basically, women set standards for women and then make other women adhere to them even though they are inappropriate for the ambient temp? Got it. :)
Well, the policing of women's fashion choices is mostly done by other women. Men's opinions doing actually enter into it all that much.
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I feel like there are a lot of people overestimating the precision with which a large office building's temperature can be regulated. The only thing for certain is that some proportion of people in the office are going to be uncomfortable no matter what the temp is.
I've worked at places where the proportion of uncomfortable people approaches 100%.
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I feel like there are a lot of people overestimating the precision with which a large office building's temperature can be regulated. The only thing for certain is that some proportion of people in the office are going to be uncomfortable no matter what the temp is.
I've worked at places where the proportion of uncomfortable people approaches 100%.
I'm currently sitting in my office with a fleece on when it is 81 degrees outside. Mind you I'm cold-natured, but still...
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I feel like there are a lot of people overestimating the precision with which a large office building's temperature can be regulated. The only thing for certain is that some proportion of people in the office are going to be uncomfortable no matter what the temp is.
I've worked at places where the proportion of uncomfortable people approaches 100%.
I'm currently sitting in my office with a fleece on when it is 81 degrees outside. Mind you I'm cold-natured, but still...
Defaulting to colder seems like the best option though. You can always put on a sweater, but I can't exactly take off my shirt at the office if I start sweating. 68* is pretty much ideal for me.
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I prefer a temperature of 60 F.
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And given my preferences, 80-85 seems just about perfect.
So, I guess we should work in separate offices. ;)
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And given my preferences, 80-85 seems just about perfect.
So, I guess we should work in separate offices. ;)
Come to my workplace... it's 85F inside, a few degrees hotter outside, humid in and out, A/C isn't working, 24 unhappy engineers, datacenter one door away has a barely functioning A/C unit. And this is just the beginning of the summer. Tropical Storm Colin passed. We still had to work.
Be happy for what you have.
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This is not a reaction that I've noticed from the other Canadians, Europeans, or Asians when someone from another country makes simple observations about their home country . . . when it's generally laughed off, or agreed with. Of course not all sweeping generalizations are true every time and for every American, but they are true often enough that people notice them.
Really? Go tell a Frenchman what's wrong with France or a German how Germany is wrong and get back to me. Americans, in my (relatively limited, I'll admit) experience, take themselves far less seriously than many Europeans.
Conan O'Brien tried that with Finland, and got a postcard saying: "I hate my homeland too, keep up the good work". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijWZA-7uHLk
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I prefer a temperature of 60 F.
I prefer a temperature of 40 F
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I prefer a temperature of 60 F.
I prefer a temperature of 40 F
I'll see your 40F and raise you (lower you?) absolute zero. You can always put on some extra clothing right?
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I prefer a temperature of 60 F.
I prefer a temperature of 40 F
I'll see your 40F and raise you (lower you?) absolute zero. You can always put on some extra clothing right?
When it's absolute zero out, I put on my solar system and atmosphere. It really takes the edge off.
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I thought I heard it all, but Norway having an advantage in public transport potential over the USA because of geology is one of the best ever.
Norway is essentially made of mountains, fjords and ice.
It's incredibly long and thin, has ZERO plains and it's almost impossible to go on a straight line from point a to point b
A good chunk of the country has multiple months with only a few hours of sunlight per year
It's scarcely populated.
The public transportation system in Norway follows roads that were already in existence meaning the path through the mountains has already been forged rendering the existence of plains or mountains largely immaterial to serving most of their population where they currently reside aside from point to point trip durations. It might be a relevant discussion if construction was primarily based on public transportation needs, however E6 would have been completed\upgraded\maintained without the existence of public transportation so that does not apply here.
I also don't know what relevance the amount of daylight has on the operation of transportation along established routes. It certainly doesn't seem to impact it much at all given the functioning transportation services available in places like Alaska or Norway.
As for scarcely populated if you haven't ever been to northern Norway I would suggest looking at a population density map. You'll see most of the people in the north live along a very narrow corridor served by 1-2 major roads. Run a few buses and ferries along those routes and you have now served the majority of the northern Norwegian population.
Now compare that to a population density map of South Dakota and it quickly becomes apparent that to serve the same percentage of population you need far more buses and roads. Keep in mind that your typical bus is going to run you around $500,000 and then costs around $115 per hour to run in terms of driver salary, fuel, maintenance etc. So, depending on how you run your bus, you are looking at around another $250,000 a year for operation. Decentralized bus service adds up fast. Inclement weather service also becomes more problematic the more decentralized your road system is
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I thought I heard it all, but Norway having an advantage in public transport potential over the USA because of geology is one of the best ever.
Norway is essentially made of mountains, fjords and ice.
It's incredibly long and thin, has ZERO plains and it's almost impossible to go on a straight line from point a to point b
A good chunk of the country has multiple months with only a few hours of sunlight per year
It's scarcely populated.
The public transportation system in Norway follows roads that were already in existence meaning the path through the mountains has already been forged rendering the existence of plains or mountains largely immaterial to serving most of their population where they currently reside aside from point to point trip durations. It might be a relevant discussion if construction was primarily based on public transportation needs, however E6 would have been completed\upgraded\maintained without the existence of public transportation so that does not apply here.
I also don't know what relevance the amount of daylight has on the operation of transportation along established routes. It certainly doesn't seem to impact it much at all given the functioning transportation services available in places like Alaska or Norway.
As for scarcely populated if you haven't ever been to northern Norway I would suggest looking at a population density map. You'll see most of the people in the north live along a very narrow corridor served by 1-2 major roads. Run a few buses and ferries along those routes and you have now served the majority of the northern Norwegian population.
Now compare that to a population density map of South Dakota and it quickly becomes apparent that to serve the same percentage of population you need far more buses and roads. Keep in mind that your typical bus is going to run you around $500,000 and then costs around $115 per hour to run in terms of driver salary, fuel, maintenance etc. So, depending on how you run your bus, you are looking at around another $250,000 a year for operation. Decentralized bus service adds up fast. Inclement weather service also becomes more problematic the more decentralized your road system is
Serving the majority is rarely a problem when you plan public transport. The people insisting on living on remote islands (Røst, Utsira, Ona), and in the end of fjords where there are so many landslides, avalanches and rockfalls that you have to have a ferry and passenger boat on standby, is what causes grey hairs on the planners' heads. "The percentage" that we need to serve is 100. If you want to live on Røst, we will take you there by public transport https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R%C3%B8st. If you want to live in Geiranger during the winter months, we will provide a "Avalanche ferry", with a printed time table, ready for when the rocks and snow comes crashing down: http://www.sunnmoringen.no/incoming/article307338.ece Some years we have to use dynamite to get the avalanches to go before the tourists start to arrive. That makes manning the avalanche ferry easier, since we can tell them to be ready this tuesday, instead of some time during the next few weeks.
E6 in your description sounds like a broad highway. The reality is that it is regularly closed do to storms, avalanches and landslides. Almost all of it has paving and two lines now, but not everywhere. (http://www.cdn.tv2.no/images?imageId=5395733&x=0&y=12.4822695035461&cropw=99.99999999999999&croph=75.0354609929078&width=998&height=562)
Earlier this year a landslide over E6 caused a lot of problems: the only possible detour was via Finland, and took 7 hours: https://www.nrk.no/troms/jordraset-i-troms-gir-omkjoring-pa-700-kilometer-1.12353626 In cases like that, we have to use boats, helicopters and planes to ensure that people get where they need to be. Also, all restrictions on snowmobile use were lifted. When E6 crosses the polar circle, it also goes over Saltfjellet (the Salt mountain). Tuesday this week, they had +1*C, heavy snowfall and gale force winds there. I'm not sure how many days each winter the transport over Saltfjellet gets restricted, but it is not few. "Kolonnekjøring over Saltfjellet" is a common part of the weather forecasts, it looks like this: (http://g.api.no/obscura/API/dynamic/r1/ece5/tr_480_360_l_f/0000/rana/2016/1/11/12/Saltfjellet.jpg?chk=29F906)
I don't doubt that planning and operating public transport in the US has it's own challenges. But the biggest challenge in my part of Europe is that we have to provide it for everybody, no matter where they live, no matter what happens. And beacuse of this, geography and weather is a big issue, and the stats that show where the majority live is of little relevance.
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What all of these foreigners who complain about how Americans consume don't understand is that consumption is a function of cost and availability.
Americans consume more, live in bigger homes, upgrade their electronics more often, etc because it is much more inexpensive to do so here than in Germany, Spain, etc.
We drive big sedans, SUVs, trucks, and sports cars because in the USA because they're more affordable than in the UK/EU. The money you pay here for a sports car gets you a Fiesta or a Focus overseas.
The money you pay for a 2,500 square foot home in the suburbs here gives you a 2 bedroom 1,000 square foot apartment in Europe.
The point isn't that the USA is better or worse or that Americans consume too much or too little. The point is that consumption is tied to cost and availability. If the cost were higher, we'd consume less, it's that simple.
If the costs were lower in EU, they'd consume more, hands down.
Now whether or not we consume too much, that's up to each individual to decide.
The most sensible post in this entire thread...
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Also, most people in a service role seem really good at their jobs. I'm sure others would disagree, but I'm always amazed at how smoothly things seem to run in the states.
Oh my GOD, this! I recently visited Ireland and Germany, and 90% of our interactions with people in customer service roles were awful. Workers would scowl at us as we came in the door, sigh and moan when we asked for any sort of help whatsoever (why yes, I would like a hotel pillowcase without bloodstains on it, thank you for rolling your eyes at me for that one), and just generally act like they were doing us a big favor by taking our money for services. We thought it was just us being stupid Americans, but the native friends/family we were visiting said no, it's just not expected that customer service people act nicely to customers.
When we got back to America and went to the carpark at midnight after twenty hours of travel, and the attendant there smiled and asked us how our night was going, I wanted to give him a hug around the neck. I never knew how much it meant to me to have people smile and act friendly with all of the small interactions in a day.
This has only been my experience with Europe, though. South America, Central America, Canada, Mexico, Pacific Islanders, all very friendly and approachable. If I didn't have most of my family living in France and Ireland, I'd swear off visiting Europe forever :(
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E6 in your description sounds like a broad highway. The reality is that it is regularly closed do to storms, avalanches and landslides. Almost all of it has paving and two lines now, but not everywhere.
I don't believe I ever mentioned that it was a broad highway (although it is in some parts) and it was never my intention (nor do I believe I did) convey that there are not issues keeping it open. I have no doubt that keeping it open is quite a task for those involved
And beacuse of this, geography and weather is a big issue, and the stats that show where the majority live is of little relevance.
Where people live, including the majority, is the cornerstone of public transit planning. I think you are under estimating the road network in the Dakotas that would need to be kept clear of ice and snow for a public transportation system to work. (I actually think we would need to widen the discussion a bit in terms of states due to the size differences in comparisons) This means that even if keeping E6 and its ancillary road network open has to deal with larger issues it may still not be as difficult or expensive as keeping a much larger road network open. This can still be true even if that larger road network does not deal with singular issues as big as the concentrated system.
For whatever its worth I worked at a firm helping cities in many places in the world (including many very snowy places) work on their public transit options and large span decentralized networks add up much faster than people realize.
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Oh my GOD, this! I recently visited Ireland and Germany, and 90% of our interactions with people in customer service roles were awful. Workers would scowl at us as we came in the door, sigh and moan when we asked for any sort of help whatsoever (why yes, I would like a hotel pillowcase without bloodstains on it, thank you for rolling your eyes at me for that one), and just generally act like they were doing us a big favor by taking our money for services. We thought it was just us being stupid Americans, but the native friends/family we were visiting said no, it's just not expected that customer service people act nicely to customers.
When we got back to America and went to the carpark at midnight after twenty hours of travel, and the attendant there smiled and asked us how our night was going, I wanted to give him a hug around the neck. I never knew how much it meant to me to have people smile and act friendly with all of the small interactions in a day.
This has only been my experience with Europe, though. South America, Central America, Canada, Mexico, Pacific Islanders, all very friendly and approachable. If I didn't have most of my family living in France and Ireland, I'd swear off visiting Europe forever :(
You may have just been unlucky, or, perhaps the area you were visiting? It seems that at least one of our international trips is to somewhere in Europe every year and that isn't something we've regularly run into, particularly in regards to Ireland. Heck, during our last trip the cabbie in Dublin refused to charge us the full fare because 'he enjoyed the trip'. Good luck getting a cabbie in DC to do that.
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Oh my GOD, this! I recently visited Ireland and Germany, and 90% of our interactions with people in customer service roles were awful. Workers would scowl at us as we came in the door, sigh and moan when we asked for any sort of help whatsoever (why yes, I would like a hotel pillowcase without bloodstains on it, thank you for rolling your eyes at me for that one), and just generally act like they were doing us a big favor by taking our money for services. We thought it was just us being stupid Americans, but the native friends/family we were visiting said no, it's just not expected that customer service people act nicely to customers.
When we got back to America and went to the carpark at midnight after twenty hours of travel, and the attendant there smiled and asked us how our night was going, I wanted to give him a hug around the neck. I never knew how much it meant to me to have people smile and act friendly with all of the small interactions in a day.
This has only been my experience with Europe, though. South America, Central America, Canada, Mexico, Pacific Islanders, all very friendly and approachable. If I didn't have most of my family living in France and Ireland, I'd swear off visiting Europe forever :(
You may have just been unlucky, or, perhaps the area you were visiting? It seems that at least one of our international trips is to somewhere in Europe every year and that isn't something we've regularly run into, particularly in regards to Ireland. Heck, during our last trip the cabbie in Dublin refused to charge us the full fare because 'he enjoyed the trip'. Good luck getting a cabbie in DC to do that.
I'm getting more and more intrigued by the concept of politeness. We get so much training in it from we are very young, that we think our type of politeness is natural, and that people who do not follow our norms are inpolite. But in reality, there are so many different rules in the different cultures of the world. In Russia, smiling at strangers is a sign that you insincere. In Scandinavia, the more you leave people alone, the more polite you are. I have several times left shops in other parts of Europe, being annoyed because the sales people wouldn't let me look at things in peace and quiet. When talking to Americans, I often have to stop and remind myself that it is not impolite in their culture to use my name when they talk to me. In my culture, we only adress someone with their given name if we are going to scold them, or if we don't think they are paying attention. in a lot of western cultures, asking people how much they earn, or how much something costs, is impolite. In several of the Deaf cultures it is considered impolite to not answer honestly to such questions. This can cause som tension in families that have both Deaf and hearing members. (Deaf with capital D=deaf culture. deaf with lower case d=non-hearing).
This TED talk by a French Canadian is really good: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-Yy6poJ2zs
Or for a less academic approach, from fucking Finland: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMFut003-bM
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This is not a reaction that I've noticed from the other Canadians, Europeans, or Asians when someone from another country makes simple observations about their home country . . . when it's generally laughed off, or agreed with. Of course not all sweeping generalizations are true every time and for every American, but they are true often enough that people notice them.
Really? Go tell a Frenchman what's wrong with France or a German how Germany is wrong and get back to me. Americans, in my (relatively limited, I'll admit) experience, take themselves far less seriously than many Europeans.
I completely agree at least from my personal experience. I dated a Frenchwomen who would rail about things she hated about America and how things were better in France, I would politely ask her why she was staying in the US and she would be quiet. When we were in France any comment I made about how things were done differently in the US was met with a death stare and the potential of no cuddling that night, so I bravely bit my tongue.
That said, when she visited me and we went to a party I hated the fact that people upon hearing her accent would ask her where she's from and when she told them, would say, "I hate France." I just thought that saying that was rude, thankfully she her response to one guy was, "Where are you from?" and the guy said, "Livonia, Michigan," and she smiled and said, "I hate Livonia."
I miss her!
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Oh my GOD, this! I recently visited Ireland and Germany, and 90% of our interactions with people in customer service roles were awful. Workers would scowl at us as we came in the door, sigh and moan when we asked for any sort of help whatsoever (why yes, I would like a hotel pillowcase without bloodstains on it, thank you for rolling your eyes at me for that one), and just generally act like they were doing us a big favor by taking our money for services. We thought it was just us being stupid Americans, but the native friends/family we were visiting said no, it's just not expected that customer service people act nicely to customers.
When we got back to America and went to the carpark at midnight after twenty hours of travel, and the attendant there smiled and asked us how our night was going, I wanted to give him a hug around the neck. I never knew how much it meant to me to have people smile and act friendly with all of the small interactions in a day.
This has only been my experience with Europe, though. South America, Central America, Canada, Mexico, Pacific Islanders, all very friendly and approachable. If I didn't have most of my family living in France and Ireland, I'd swear off visiting Europe forever :(
You may have just been unlucky, or, perhaps the area you were visiting? It seems that at least one of our international trips is to somewhere in Europe every year and that isn't something we've regularly run into, particularly in regards to Ireland. Heck, during our last trip the cabbie in Dublin refused to charge us the full fare because 'he enjoyed the trip'. Good luck getting a cabbie in DC to do that.
I'm getting more and more intrigued by the concept of politeness. We get so much training in it from we are very young, that we think our type of politeness is natural, and that people who do not follow our norms are inpolite. But in reality, there are so many different rules in the different cultures of the world. In Russia, smiling at strangers is a sign that you insincere. In Scandinavia, the more you leave people alone, the more polite you are. I have several times left shops in other parts of Europe, being annoyed because the sales people wouldn't let me look at things in peace and quiet. When talking to Americans, I often have to stop and remind myself that it is not impolite in their culture to use my name when they talk to me. In my culture, we only adress someone with their given name if we are going to scold them, or if we don't think they are paying attention. in a lot of western cultures, asking people how much they earn, or how much something costs, is impolite. In several of the Deaf cultures it is considered impolite to not answer honestly to such questions. This can cause som tension in families that have both Deaf and hearing members. (Deaf with capital D=deaf culture. deaf with lower case d=non-hearing).
This TED talk by a French Canadian is really good: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-Yy6poJ2zs
Or for a less academic approach, from fucking Finland: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMFut003-bM
A guy I know that emigrated from Korea said that people only smiled at babies and "retarded people" (his words) and so when he came here he was shocked that strangers would smile at him, and it took him a while to realize that it was just them being polite and not thinking that he was mentally impaired.
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Also, most people in a service role seem really good at their jobs. I'm sure others would disagree, but I'm always amazed at how smoothly things seem to run in the states.
Oh my GOD, this! I recently visited Ireland and Germany, and 90% of our interactions with people in customer service roles were awful. Workers would scowl at us as we came in the door, sigh and moan when we asked for any sort of help whatsoever (why yes, I would like a hotel pillowcase without bloodstains on it, thank you for rolling your eyes at me for that one), and just generally act like they were doing us a big favor by taking our money for services. We thought it was just us being stupid Americans, but the native friends/family we were visiting said no, it's just not expected that customer service people act nicely to customers.
When we got back to America and went to the carpark at midnight after twenty hours of travel, and the attendant there smiled and asked us how our night was going, I wanted to give him a hug around the neck. I never knew how much it meant to me to have people smile and act friendly with all of the small interactions in a day.
This has only been my experience with Europe, though. South America, Central America, Canada, Mexico, Pacific Islanders, all very friendly and approachable. If I didn't have most of my family living in France and Ireland, I'd swear off visiting Europe forever :(
Interesting. I've always been frustrated by how slow everything is in the states. I was raised in Korea, and things moved so quickly there: customer service for internet comes within hours, entire subway lines get built in a year, updating my license at the DMV takes 20 minutes, etc.
Part of it is probably the expectation on the customer part: speed > building rapport/conversation.
The flipside, is that people tend to be generally nicer/friendlier here.
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I guess I didn't take any offense because I view myself as a contrarian to the general American as I ride my bike to work, eat a healthy diet, etc.
I don't agree with disrespecting someone's opinion based on their nationality, age, race, etc.
Thought it would be fun to search for a 10 things America is great at post to make everyone feel better:
http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/25/travel/10-things-u-s-does-better/
1. Everyone says hello
2. Road Trips
3. Derbies
4. Craft Beer
5. Diversity
6. Canyons
7. National Parks
8. Eating
9. Sports
10. TV/Movies/Youtube
Definitely diversity. When compared to a homogenous nation like Korea, where essentially everyone comes from an area the size of Indiana, the US seems super diverse and welcoming to different cultures/skin colors. When I first moved for college, I was surprised how racially sensitive everyone was - racism is very common back in korea. Despite all the claims of racism here, it's really amazing how accepting the culture is. (Obviously it can always be better)
This was the first link I found, but still very interesting:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2325502/Map-shows-worlds-racist-countries-answers-surprise-you.html
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LOL, I didn't see this last time. There's only four things we do better than anyone else:
music
movies
microcode (software)
high-speed pizza delivery
I guess I didn't take any offense because I view myself as a contrarian to the general American as I ride my bike to work, eat a healthy diet, etc.
I don't agree with disrespecting someone's opinion based on their nationality, age, race, etc.
Thought it would be fun to search for a 10 things America is great at post to make everyone feel better:
http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/25/travel/10-things-u-s-does-better/
1. Everyone says hello
2. Road Trips
3. Derbies
4. Craft Beer
5. Diversity
6. Canyons
7. National Parks
8. Eating
9. Sports
10. TV/Movies/Youtube
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LOL, I didn't see this last time. There's only four things we do better than anyone else:
music
movies
microcode (software)
high-speed pizza delivery
Ha! Snow Crash quote, and quite possibly true.
jfolsen