Author Topic: "Working from home is too convenient"  (Read 11903 times)

FireLane

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"Working from home is too convenient"
« on: May 15, 2021, 07:23:30 AM »
Here's an editorial by Jon Levy, who sounds like he'd be the worst boss in the world, arguing that remote work is a passing fad and that eventually everyone will go back to the office:

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2021/05/09/opinion/hybrid-workplace-probably-wont-last/

This is one of the reasons he gives:

Quote
Working from home can be too convenient. Things that are convenient aren’t necessarily good for us. Lifting weights is hard, but it makes us stronger. Similarly, it is more convenient not to have a commute or change out of our pajamas, but that doesn’t mean it’s good for us. Having some commuting time, whether it’s walking, on public transit, or in a car, gives us an opportunity to let our minds wander and explore ideas. In these moments, you replay conversations from the day. Maybe you plan your discussion with your boss about a raise. You have time to process. Office life forces transitions and breaks throughout the day, as people shift between meeting rooms, desks, and meals and coffee. Of course, remote workers can plan breaks into their days, but most people aren’t very good at putting boundaries on their time.

Speaking as someone who commuted an hour each way (by train and subway) for years, and whose commute now consists of the few steps from my bed to my desk, this guy can go fuck himself. Commuting isn't like working out, commuting is a soul-sucking drain of money, time and life energy.

Working from home full-time is great. I can sleep in, I can skip bad weather, I can take a break any time to go for a walk around the neighborhood, to run errands, or to be with my son after he gets home from school. Even if I wasn't planning to FIRE this summer, I'm sure as hell never going back to an office.

ixtap

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Re: "Working from home is too convenient"
« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2021, 07:51:32 AM »
DH has a five minute commute by bike and he is conflicted about going back to the office. Luckily, Megacorp has set a fall deadline for returning, so he doesn't have to think about it for awhile.

ender

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Re: "Working from home is too convenient"
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2021, 07:54:35 AM »
He's not... totally wrong.

Especially that most people are bad at putting boundaries into their day when working from home.

But, I can tell you that if I'm going to mull over work stuff on my own time, I am not remotely interested in doing it in a forced commute.

ysette9

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Re: "Working from home is too convenient"
« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2021, 08:19:50 AM »
As an introvert I am desperately overwhelmed and burned out by the constant togetherness that Covid has brought. I have realized how important quiet alone time is to my mental well being. While I didn’t like being stuck in the car (bike commute was 1000% better) any solo commute gave me that regenerative alone time I crave.

That isn’t a reason to have commutes in our lives but for me it is a reason to value some sort of quiet alone time each day. Ideally that would be when my kids GO AWAY during the day, at school or preschool or daycare or all of the above. I have found myself daydreaming and actually dreaming of returning to the office just to get some peace.

Metalcat

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Re: "Working from home is too convenient"
« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2021, 09:08:35 AM »
Oh for fuck's sake.

All things come with trade offs. 

Oh look, someone identified some challenges with working from home and not commuting. Okay, why don't you go and be intellectually honest and enumerate all of the vast challenges of working in an office.

This is disingenuous bullshit, and I have no patience for it.

PDXTabs

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Re: "Working from home is too convenient"
« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2021, 11:25:34 AM »
Oh for fuck's sake.

All things come with trade offs. 

Oh look, someone identified some challenges with working from home and not commuting. Okay, why don't you go and be intellectually honest and enumerate all of the vast challenges of working in an office.

This is disingenuous bullshit, and I have no patience for it.

Yup, I super agree with this, which is why I've always said that a hybrid schedule where you are in the office 1-4 days a week and at home 1-4 days a week is ideal for both employee and employer. Do the stuff in the office that the office is good for, then do the stuff at home that home is good for.

FINate

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Re: "Working from home is too convenient"
« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2021, 12:08:50 PM »
Nothing to see here, just another Corporate Guru "Influencer" peddling his warez. Jump on the latest corporate trend (e.g. open offices), write a book, then cash in on speaking and consulting for companies that want to feel on trend. Remote work wrecks his carefully crafted plan :)

ScreamingHeadGuy

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Re: "Working from home is too convenient"
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2021, 06:47:43 PM »
Fuck him.

If you are driving, walking, or biking yourself to work you should be focused on your surroundings (for basic safety) and not daydreaming of conversations you might have, as he suggests.

Everything else I take from that excerpt is bullshit, too, but that particular item is the cake-topper of shit. 

Dave1442397

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Re: "Working from home is too convenient"
« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2021, 07:11:46 PM »
I'm with Dilbert.

Our office (which I only went to once a month, on average) was sold a few months ago, and everyone is either going to work from home, or be assigned to a different office. The new location sucks for 99% of people, so our VP had told us we would all be full-time WFH employees. However, apparently big cheese thinks people should show up at the office, so now it's all up for debate again. They asked for everyone's commute time and distance to/from the new location given a start time of 8:30am. For most people, that's 90 mins to two hours, depending on traffic. We're hoping that puts a stop to the idiocy, but...idiots.

It's not as if we haven't all been WFH since March 2020, so I think we can handle it. Even the old location was a nightmare of a commute for me. 31 miles each way, which could take anywhere from 40 mins (leaving the house at 5am) to two hours (leaving at 7am). Coming home was always a crapshoot. Could be an hour, could be two hours, and it was never an easy drive - very stressful, bumper-to-bumper the whole way.


« Last Edit: May 15, 2021, 07:13:32 PM by Dave1442397 »

ender

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Re: "Working from home is too convenient"
« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2021, 06:38:18 AM »
I'm with Dilbert.

Our office (which I only went to once a month, on average) was sold a few months ago, and everyone is either going to work from home, or be assigned to a different office. The new location sucks for 99% of people, so our VP had told us we would all be full-time WFH employees. However, apparently big cheese thinks people should show up at the office, so now it's all up for debate again. They asked for everyone's commute time and distance to/from the new location given a start time of 8:30am. For most people, that's 90 mins to two hours, depending on traffic. We're hoping that puts a stop to the idiocy, but...idiots.

It's not as if we haven't all been WFH since March 2020, so I think we can handle it. Even the old location was a nightmare of a commute for me. 31 miles each way, which could take anywhere from 40 mins (leaving the house at 5am) to two hours (leaving at 7am). Coming home was always a crapshoot. Could be an hour, could be two hours, and it was never an easy drive - very stressful, bumper-to-bumper the whole way.

You should share this video with your VP (well, maybe not your VP hah.. but your coworkers would appreciate it).

https://twitter.com/find_evil/status/1384180643886604289

Dave1442397

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Re: "Working from home is too convenient"
« Reply #10 on: May 16, 2021, 07:34:57 AM »
I'm with Dilbert.

Our office (which I only went to once a month, on average) was sold a few months ago, and everyone is either going to work from home, or be assigned to a different office. The new location sucks for 99% of people, so our VP had told us we would all be full-time WFH employees. However, apparently big cheese thinks people should show up at the office, so now it's all up for debate again. They asked for everyone's commute time and distance to/from the new location given a start time of 8:30am. For most people, that's 90 mins to two hours, depending on traffic. We're hoping that puts a stop to the idiocy, but...idiots.

It's not as if we haven't all been WFH since March 2020, so I think we can handle it. Even the old location was a nightmare of a commute for me. 31 miles each way, which could take anywhere from 40 mins (leaving the house at 5am) to two hours (leaving at 7am). Coming home was always a crapshoot. Could be an hour, could be two hours, and it was never an easy drive - very stressful, bumper-to-bumper the whole way.

You should share this video with your VP (well, maybe not your VP hah.. but your coworkers would appreciate it).

https://twitter.com/find_evil/status/1384180643886604289

I'm sure they'd like it, but I don't share anything through work channels any more. Now that we use Microsoft Teams, they can see everything.

4tify

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Re: "Working from home is too convenient"
« Reply #11 on: May 16, 2021, 09:34:43 AM »
Here's an editorial by Jon Levy, who sounds like he'd be the worst boss in the world, arguing that remote work is a passing fad and that eventually everyone will go back to the office:

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2021/05/09/opinion/hybrid-workplace-probably-wont-last/

This is one of the reasons he gives:

Quote
Working from home can be too convenient. Things that are convenient aren’t necessarily good for us. Lifting weights is hard, but it makes us stronger. Similarly, it is more convenient not to have a commute or change out of our pajamas, but that doesn’t mean it’s good for us. Having some commuting time, whether it’s walking, on public transit, or in a car, gives us an opportunity to let our minds wander and explore ideas. In these moments, you replay conversations from the day. Maybe you plan your discussion with your boss about a raise. You have time to process. Office life forces transitions and breaks throughout the day, as people shift between meeting rooms, desks, and meals and coffee. Of course, remote workers can plan breaks into their days, but most people aren’t very good at putting boundaries on their time.

Speaking as someone who commuted an hour each way (by train and subway) for years, and whose commute now consists of the few steps from my bed to my desk, this guy can go fuck himself. Commuting isn't like working out, commuting is a soul-sucking drain of money, time and life energy.

Working from home full-time is great. I can sleep in, I can skip bad weather, I can take a break any time to go for a walk around the neighborhood, to run errands, or to be with my son after he gets home from school. Even if I wasn't planning to FIRE this summer, I'm sure as hell never going back to an office.

Hahahaha! Yeah I really miss time in my commute to “replay conversations” and have space to contemplate how much money I’m NOT making. Jon Levy sounds like a guy who spends a lot of time making himself miserable.

I definitely don’t want to give back the 2.5hrs/day I spent commuting. I AM working on keeping all that found time for myself since for many months work just sucked it up like a vacuum on steroids.

Metalcat

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Re: "Working from home is too convenient"
« Reply #12 on: May 16, 2021, 09:37:58 AM »
Here's an editorial by Jon Levy, who sounds like he'd be the worst boss in the world, arguing that remote work is a passing fad and that eventually everyone will go back to the office:

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2021/05/09/opinion/hybrid-workplace-probably-wont-last/

This is one of the reasons he gives:

Quote
Working from home can be too convenient. Things that are convenient aren’t necessarily good for us. Lifting weights is hard, but it makes us stronger. Similarly, it is more convenient not to have a commute or change out of our pajamas, but that doesn’t mean it’s good for us. Having some commuting time, whether it’s walking, on public transit, or in a car, gives us an opportunity to let our minds wander and explore ideas. In these moments, you replay conversations from the day. Maybe you plan your discussion with your boss about a raise. You have time to process. Office life forces transitions and breaks throughout the day, as people shift between meeting rooms, desks, and meals and coffee. Of course, remote workers can plan breaks into their days, but most people aren’t very good at putting boundaries on their time.

Speaking as someone who commuted an hour each way (by train and subway) for years, and whose commute now consists of the few steps from my bed to my desk, this guy can go fuck himself. Commuting isn't like working out, commuting is a soul-sucking drain of money, time and life energy.

Working from home full-time is great. I can sleep in, I can skip bad weather, I can take a break any time to go for a walk around the neighborhood, to run errands, or to be with my son after he gets home from school. Even if I wasn't planning to FIRE this summer, I'm sure as hell never going back to an office.

Hahahaha! Yeah I really miss time in my commute to “replay conversations” and have space to contemplate how much money I’m NOT making. Jon Levy sounds like a guy who spends a lot of time making himself miserable.

I definitely don’t want to give back the 2.5hrs/day I spent commuting. I AM working on keeping all that found time for myself since for many months work just sucked it up like a vacuum on steroids.

Yeah, it's not fucking complicated to go for a walk before and after work if you need that thinking time. But no, let's force people to do something physically and mentally bad for them, and is terrible for the environment instead...un fucking believable.

Imma

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Re: "Working from home is too convenient"
« Reply #13 on: May 16, 2021, 09:49:46 AM »
Here's an editorial by Jon Levy, who sounds like he'd be the worst boss in the world, arguing that remote work is a passing fad and that eventually everyone will go back to the office:

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2021/05/09/opinion/hybrid-workplace-probably-wont-last/

This is one of the reasons he gives:

Quote
Working from home can be too convenient. Things that are convenient aren’t necessarily good for us. Lifting weights is hard, but it makes us stronger. Similarly, it is more convenient not to have a commute or change out of our pajamas, but that doesn’t mean it’s good for us. Having some commuting time, whether it’s walking, on public transit, or in a car, gives us an opportunity to let our minds wander and explore ideas. In these moments, you replay conversations from the day. Maybe you plan your discussion with your boss about a raise. You have time to process. Office life forces transitions and breaks throughout the day, as people shift between meeting rooms, desks, and meals and coffee. Of course, remote workers can plan breaks into their days, but most people aren’t very good at putting boundaries on their time.

Speaking as someone who commuted an hour each way (by train and subway) for years, and whose commute now consists of the few steps from my bed to my desk, this guy can go fuck himself. Commuting isn't like working out, commuting is a soul-sucking drain of money, time and life energy.

Working from home full-time is great. I can sleep in, I can skip bad weather, I can take a break any time to go for a walk around the neighborhood, to run errands, or to be with my son after he gets home from school. Even if I wasn't planning to FIRE this summer, I'm sure as hell never going back to an office.

Hahahaha! Yeah I really miss time in my commute to “replay conversations” and have space to contemplate how much money I’m NOT making. Jon Levy sounds like a guy who spends a lot of time making himself miserable.

I definitely don’t want to give back the 2.5hrs/day I spent commuting. I AM working on keeping all that found time for myself since for many months work just sucked it up like a vacuum on steroids.

Yeah, it's not fucking complicated to go for a walk before and after work if you need that thinking time. But no, let's force people to do something physically and mentally bad for them, and is terrible for the environment instead...un fucking believable.

My commute was taking up soooo much of my physical energy right before the pandemic. More than an hour, in public transit, traffic was getting worse and worse so the bus was in traffic jams all the time, I have difficulty standing up for long periods of time but look young and non-disabled so I often couldn't get a seat.... and let's not even talk about the temperatures. I would buy coffee to stay warm way too often - I'd bring coffee from home but I would finish it before I even got to the office because I was so cold. The noise in the bus was terrible, in hindsight. All those people talking around me.

Now, I get up in the morning, brew fresh coffee, walk through my garden, pick fresh veggies for a lunch salad or walk through the neighbourhood park for 15-20 minutes at a leisurely pace. I try to go for a 30-minute walk during my lunch hour - since we are WFH we have a lunch hour at work! We don't have meetings between 12 and 1. We didn't even have a break room in the office so we'd sit at our desks, and usually only stopped working for a couple of minutes. Then after work I try to go for a walk that's a bit longer, maybe 30 minutes to an hour.

I get the same amount of exercise but now it's through the park and not around the railway station and the industrial estate my office was in. And sometimes I bump into friends or neighbours and we have a chat. I have a new job closer to home now and I wouldn't mind going in every now and then for meetings, things we can't do at home, etc etc. But I think very few people are willing to go back to the office fulltime.

Zikoris

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Re: "Working from home is too convenient"
« Reply #14 on: May 16, 2021, 01:09:54 PM »
The only thing I remember thinking about way back when I used to commute by bus was how much it sucked - the crowds, the lurching that made me queasy, the heat, and what a big chunk of time it took out of my day that I wasn't getting paid for. I've walked to work for a long time now, and I 100% guarantee I do not think about work during my walks.

Metalcat

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Re: "Working from home is too convenient"
« Reply #15 on: May 16, 2021, 01:40:14 PM »
The only thing I remember thinking about way back when I used to commute by bus was how much it sucked - the crowds, the lurching that made me queasy, the heat, and what a big chunk of time it took out of my day that I wasn't getting paid for. I've walked to work for a long time now, and I 100% guarantee I do not think about work during my walks.

Yeah, some jobs need extensive contemplation, but a lot don't. Mine did because there was no time to think during the work day, it was so intense, but stop and go traffic or sitting on a crowded bus was not the best way to do that thinking.

At my last job, I had to commute, and I would still take a long walk or sit quietly not talking for awhile once I got home many days to process my day in a healthier way than I could during traffic.

No one needs to sit in traffic.

I actually read a study years ago that time spent in traffic was the highest indicator of job dissatisfaction, more than any other factor that actually had to do with the job itself.

Zikoris

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Re: "Working from home is too convenient"
« Reply #16 on: May 16, 2021, 02:28:56 PM »
The only thing I remember thinking about way back when I used to commute by bus was how much it sucked - the crowds, the lurching that made me queasy, the heat, and what a big chunk of time it took out of my day that I wasn't getting paid for. I've walked to work for a long time now, and I 100% guarantee I do not think about work during my walks.

Yeah, some jobs need extensive contemplation, but a lot don't. Mine did because there was no time to think during the work day, it was so intense, but stop and go traffic or sitting on a crowded bus was not the best way to do that thinking.

At my last job, I had to commute, and I would still take a long walk or sit quietly not talking for awhile once I got home many days to process my day in a healthier way than I could during traffic.

No one needs to sit in traffic.

I actually read a study years ago that time spent in traffic was the highest indicator of job dissatisfaction, more than any other factor that actually had to do with the job itself.

I'd believe it. If I were to make a list of, say, my top five quality-of-life upgrades ever made, setting things up so I can walk to work would be right up there with overseas travel, moving out on my own, and getting laser eye surgery. Commuting suuuucks so bad.

boarder42

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Re: "Working from home is too convenient"
« Reply #17 on: May 16, 2021, 02:55:48 PM »
Oh for fuck's sake.

All things come with trade offs. 

Oh look, someone identified some challenges with working from home and not commuting. Okay, why don't you go and be intellectually honest and enumerate all of the vast challenges of working in an office.

This is disingenuous bullshit, and I have no patience for it.

Yep my company is convinced thru a few surveys they've done that we have to return to office to solve problems that became more difficult while working remotely. Such as onboarding new hires. Well maybe it's difficult to onboard remotely because we have only been practicing it for 6 months but we had over 100 years of in person practice. It's really insane to me what management thinks is solved by putting everyone in the same box.  Luckily I can quit if they ever force me back so I'm not too worried. I am worried about the future of the company that I own a lot of shares in bc based on what I'm hearing and seeing most people don't want to be back full time and our competition is adding remote options formally. 

wkumtrider

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Re: "Working from home is too convenient"
« Reply #18 on: May 17, 2021, 09:40:44 AM »
My wife started working from home during the pandemic and her and her team's productivity has increased dramatically.  So much in fact that her employer is now letting them work full time from home.  She loves it and does not miss the office one bit.

Uturn

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Re: "Working from home is too convenient"
« Reply #19 on: May 17, 2021, 11:07:24 AM »
I'm conflicted.  I don't like commuting at all, actually don't like driving in general.  However, I prefer to work in the office. I've been doing two days in the office lately.  Odd thing with my job is I do not have any local coworkers, the people in my office are sales, marketing, and finance.  So even when I'm in the office, I am still remote to everyone else.

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Re: "Working from home is too convenient"
« Reply #20 on: May 18, 2021, 09:19:28 AM »
I mostly worked from home from 2004 until I retired at the end of 2020. As a software researcher in a big company, it worked very well and I was a big proponent of work from home. However, a year of intense product development in a startup revealed to me how frustrating it can be to develop very complex software development using only remote interaction tools. I think the pandemic has revealed how many jobs can be done effectively remotely and also how many jobs can be done much better in person.

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Re: "Working from home is too convenient"
« Reply #21 on: May 18, 2021, 12:44:04 PM »
The article is mostly sensationalist BS, but add me to the "not sure" list when it comes to full time WFH.

My commute was about an hour per day combined and I don't miss it, specifically. I do miss it being a work/home barrier of sorts, though. I was fortunate to be able to put my home office in a dedicated room but I still have some problems switching my brain back and forth when I punch in or out for the day. It just seemed easier when I was either in the office or at home. The WFH is so much more convenient, though.

I also miss being around my coworkers from the standpoint that it always seems easier to work with people that you know at least a little on a personal level. Some of that might be unique to my situation - I started this job only a few months before we went full time WFH so there wasn't much time to really get to know people. At other previous gigs where I had been there longer, we all knew each other well enough that we could socialize via IM decently.

Maybe a hybrid? It might work. My employer removed the cubes for all of us that went WFH, consolidated the others, then stopped their leases on the floors they were able to vacate so it would be tough to get that space back. Trying to manage hotel/shared cubing would be a pain for the employer and employee if they still wanted to save space.  It would be nice to have real interaction, again, though.

boarder42

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Re: "Working from home is too convenient"
« Reply #22 on: May 18, 2021, 01:00:39 PM »
Oh for fuck's sake.

All things come with trade offs. 

Oh look, someone identified some challenges with working from home and not commuting. Okay, why don't you go and be intellectually honest and enumerate all of the vast challenges of working in an office.

This is disingenuous bullshit, and I have no patience for it.

Yep my company is convinced thru a few surveys they've done that we have to return to office to solve problems that became more difficult while working remotely. Such as onboarding new hires. Well maybe it's difficult to onboard remotely because we have only been practicing it for 6 months but we had over 100 years of in person practice. It's really insane to me what management thinks is solved by putting everyone in the same box.  Luckily I can quit if they ever force me back so I'm not too worried. I am worried about the future of the company that I own a lot of shares in bc based on what I'm hearing and seeing most people don't want to be back full time and our competition is adding remote options formally.

Well that escalated quickly heard we'll all be expected to go back full time in the next month or so and we get a bank of days to use - I will probably be departing sooner or later.  I mean that's why we play this game guys to be able to walk away when the situation no longer satisfies you in life.  I was going to hang out til year end but maybe not anymore.

Metalcat

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Re: "Working from home is too convenient"
« Reply #23 on: May 18, 2021, 01:03:53 PM »
The article is mostly sensationalist BS, but add me to the "not sure" list when it comes to full time WFH.

My commute was about an hour per day combined and I don't miss it, specifically. I do miss it being a work/home barrier of sorts, though. I was fortunate to be able to put my home office in a dedicated room but I still have some problems switching my brain back and forth when I punch in or out for the day. It just seemed easier when I was either in the office or at home. The WFH is so much more convenient, though.

I also miss being around my coworkers from the standpoint that it always seems easier to work with people that you know at least a little on a personal level. Some of that might be unique to my situation - I started this job only a few months before we went full time WFH so there wasn't much time to really get to know people. At other previous gigs where I had been there longer, we all knew each other well enough that we could socialize via IM decently.

Maybe a hybrid? It might work. My employer removed the cubes for all of us that went WFH, consolidated the others, then stopped their leases on the floors they were able to vacate so it would be tough to get that space back. Trying to manage hotel/shared cubing would be a pain for the employer and employee if they still wanted to save space.  It would be nice to have real interaction, again, though.

Yeah, but I think it's a given that some people will go back to work and some people will work hybrid.

No one is expecting everyone to permanently work from home, so writing dumbfuck articles about how a daily commute is good for people is just such bullshit.

Saying this article is a giant pile of crap is not the same as saying that everyone should work from home always. Obviously that makes no sense.

However, it does make sense that the new default be that people are able to work from home when it makes sense to. Remember, before covid, working from home was a fantasy for most people who wanted to. Corporations wildly opposed it.

This is such a brand new concept as being something that's acceptable or good in any way.

No one is suggesting that offices never be used, so there's no need to defend them. What I do think might happen is a lot less dedicated office space, and a lot more flexible co-working spaces.

So a business might rent out offices as needed instead of maintaining entire buildings. I think we will see a huge shift in the way space is used moving forward.

GuitarStv

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Re: "Working from home is too convenient"
« Reply #24 on: May 18, 2021, 01:05:38 PM »
Nothing to see here, just another Corporate Guru "Influencer" peddling his warez. Jump on the latest corporate trend (e.g. open offices), write a book, then cash in on speaking and consulting for companies that want to feel on trend. Remote work wrecks his carefully crafted plan :)

See, I was approaching this charitably right up until I read this.

Open offices?  OPEN OFFICES?

That's the single worst thing I've run across in my career for productivity.  Open offices only work if nobody works and everyone enjoys loud chatting all day with their office buddies.  Christ.

OtherJen

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Re: "Working from home is too convenient"
« Reply #25 on: May 18, 2021, 01:09:06 PM »
Nothing to see here, just another Corporate Guru "Influencer" peddling his warez. Jump on the latest corporate trend (e.g. open offices), write a book, then cash in on speaking and consulting for companies that want to feel on trend. Remote work wrecks his carefully crafted plan :)

See, I was approaching this charitably right up until I read this.

Open offices?  OPEN OFFICES?

That's the single worst thing I've run across in my career for productivity.  Open offices only work if nobody works and everyone enjoys loud chatting all day with their office buddies.  Christ.

Seconded. I had an internship in an open office setting. It decimated my ability to focus and made my anxiety so much worse. It wasn't helped by having to listen to the workers at the table behind me bicker all day long about the music that one of them insisted on playing just loud enough to annoy someone with sound hypersensitivity (in this case, one of the others at the table).

boarder42

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Re: "Working from home is too convenient"
« Reply #26 on: May 18, 2021, 01:12:35 PM »
The article is mostly sensationalist BS, but add me to the "not sure" list when it comes to full time WFH.

My commute was about an hour per day combined and I don't miss it, specifically. I do miss it being a work/home barrier of sorts, though. I was fortunate to be able to put my home office in a dedicated room but I still have some problems switching my brain back and forth when I punch in or out for the day. It just seemed easier when I was either in the office or at home. The WFH is so much more convenient, though.

I also miss being around my coworkers from the standpoint that it always seems easier to work with people that you know at least a little on a personal level. Some of that might be unique to my situation - I started this job only a few months before we went full time WFH so there wasn't much time to really get to know people. At other previous gigs where I had been there longer, we all knew each other well enough that we could socialize via IM decently.

Maybe a hybrid? It might work. My employer removed the cubes for all of us that went WFH, consolidated the others, then stopped their leases on the floors they were able to vacate so it would be tough to get that space back. Trying to manage hotel/shared cubing would be a pain for the employer and employee if they still wanted to save space.  It would be nice to have real interaction, again, though.

Yeah, but I think it's a given that some people will go back to work and some people will work hybrid.

No one is expecting everyone to permanently work from home, so writing dumbfuck articles about how a daily commute is good for people is just such bullshit.

Saying this article is a giant pile of crap is not the same as saying that everyone should work from home always. Obviously that makes no sense.

However, it does make sense that the new default be that people are able to work from home when it makes sense to. Remember, before covid, working from home was a fantasy for most people who wanted to. Corporations wildly opposed it.

This is such a brand new concept as being something that's acceptable or good in any way.

No one is suggesting that offices never be used, so there's no need to defend them. What I do think might happen is a lot less dedicated office space, and a lot more flexible co-working spaces.

So a business might rent out offices as needed instead of maintaining entire buildings. I think we will see a huge shift in the way space is used moving forward.

I wish that were the case but more and more large companies and old C-suite people cannot wrap their heads around how you can be productive and interactive with coworkers digitally.  We had a top level executive compare working in office to having a real career and working from home akin to a job at a fast food restaurant. 

Metalcat

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Re: "Working from home is too convenient"
« Reply #27 on: May 18, 2021, 01:21:29 PM »
The article is mostly sensationalist BS, but add me to the "not sure" list when it comes to full time WFH.

My commute was about an hour per day combined and I don't miss it, specifically. I do miss it being a work/home barrier of sorts, though. I was fortunate to be able to put my home office in a dedicated room but I still have some problems switching my brain back and forth when I punch in or out for the day. It just seemed easier when I was either in the office or at home. The WFH is so much more convenient, though.

I also miss being around my coworkers from the standpoint that it always seems easier to work with people that you know at least a little on a personal level. Some of that might be unique to my situation - I started this job only a few months before we went full time WFH so there wasn't much time to really get to know people. At other previous gigs where I had been there longer, we all knew each other well enough that we could socialize via IM decently.

Maybe a hybrid? It might work. My employer removed the cubes for all of us that went WFH, consolidated the others, then stopped their leases on the floors they were able to vacate so it would be tough to get that space back. Trying to manage hotel/shared cubing would be a pain for the employer and employee if they still wanted to save space.  It would be nice to have real interaction, again, though.

Yeah, but I think it's a given that some people will go back to work and some people will work hybrid.

No one is expecting everyone to permanently work from home, so writing dumbfuck articles about how a daily commute is good for people is just such bullshit.

Saying this article is a giant pile of crap is not the same as saying that everyone should work from home always. Obviously that makes no sense.

However, it does make sense that the new default be that people are able to work from home when it makes sense to. Remember, before covid, working from home was a fantasy for most people who wanted to. Corporations wildly opposed it.

This is such a brand new concept as being something that's acceptable or good in any way.

No one is suggesting that offices never be used, so there's no need to defend them. What I do think might happen is a lot less dedicated office space, and a lot more flexible co-working spaces.

So a business might rent out offices as needed instead of maintaining entire buildings. I think we will see a huge shift in the way space is used moving forward.

I wish that were the case but more and more large companies and old C-suite people cannot wrap their heads around how you can be productive and interactive with coworkers digitally.  We had a top level executive compare working in office to having a real career and working from home akin to a job at a fast food restaurant.

That's kind of my point.

We don't need articles all about the ills of working from home because there's still huge resistance to the concept from a lot of companies.

AlanStache

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Re: "Working from home is too convenient"
« Reply #28 on: May 18, 2021, 03:08:05 PM »
Yes we do need down time to allow us to think deeply or to think subconsciously or zone out, but I dont think I ever got while driving.  I have got that from walking in sparsely crowded areas. 

I had been 100% wfh up to ~3 weeks ago then I have been 100% in the office so I can use some hardware.  Last week or so I have biked to work, has been nice.  I have contemplated adding an electric motor to my commuted but I dont know that I want to commit to being back in the office. 

I expect my employer will not insist we all come back and we will sort of muddle on with no real policy for some time.  For my current role I could not be 100% wfh, there is just to much hardware I need in the office but I could be 100% wfh for months at a time. 

edit: I am in the office and just had to put my Bose noise canceling headphones on as a coworker is having "issues" with his teenage daughter down the hall....
« Last Edit: May 18, 2021, 03:27:15 PM by AlanStache »

Sibley

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Re: "Working from home is too convenient"
« Reply #29 on: May 18, 2021, 03:11:49 PM »
It is really, really hard to put the genie back in the bottle. Companies have spent a year+ working remotely, and there are a lot of people who do not want to return to the office full time. They will push back. I'm already hearing about it - my previous company the execs were very anti-wfh, and were going to pull everyone back into the office. They've now announced that it will be hybrid. Basically, enough people said they'd quit if they had to be in the office full time.

A lot of the professionals I know who are dead set against wfh are also Boomers - ie, they're getting close to retirement. And yes, there are younger people who don't like wfh, but I suspect it's a lower percentage.

Hula Hoop

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Re: "Working from home is too convenient"
« Reply #30 on: May 18, 2021, 03:42:07 PM »
I'm currently 100% WFH for various reasons.  I'm one of those people who finds it really hard to switch to 'work mode' when my desk is about 2 meters from my bed in our bedroom.  I force myself to shower and put on clothes in the morning but my procrastination is so much worse when I WFH.  Part of this is that I have kids and have to get the younger one from school and the older one gets home and eats lunch at around 2.  There are always lots of things to deal with.  My husband is currently working FT outside the home.

At the same time, I love the convenience of WFH.  I get a bit of extra sleep in the morning, I can deal with kid issues, put on a load of laundry, cook a proper lunch.  At the end of the day, I think I'd like to go back to the office part time - maybe 2-3 days per week and do the other days at home.  I love being able to spend a bit more time with my kids and be more involved in their lives that I was when I was working 40 hours a week in an office.

My commute was a 40 minute walk each way.  I used to listen to podcasts on the way.  I miss the exercise and thinking time.  If i had to drive or take public transport I doubt I'd miss it though.

Dave1442397

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Re: "Working from home is too convenient"
« Reply #31 on: May 18, 2021, 03:48:02 PM »
From what I heard today, I think I'll be able to continue WFH full-time, which is fantastic news for me. Not only did my commute suck, but almost everyone I work with is either in different parts of the country, or would never be in the office on the same day as me.

Attached is a pic of part of an email I read today (I hesitate to forward anything that might be tracked). This is such a typical response from the workaholics who spend most of their lives at work. So, people who drive up to 90 mins each way should be in 1-2 days per week, and people who are 90 mins to 120 mins each way should be in 1 day per week. The two people who live 90 miles away should be WFH (no, really?).

That's still more than I ever want to drive, especially for absolutely no reason other than to bump management's "in-the-office" numbers.

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Re: "Working from home is too convenient"
« Reply #32 on: May 18, 2021, 03:54:51 PM »
From what I heard today, I think I'll be able to continue WFH full-time, which is fantastic news for me. Not only did my commute suck, but almost everyone I work with is either in different parts of the country, or would never be in the office on the same day as me.

Attached is a pic of part of an email I read today (I hesitate to forward anything that might be tracked). This is such a typical response from the workaholics who spend most of their lives at work. So, people who drive up to 90 mins each way should be in 1-2 days per week, and people who are 90 mins to 120 mins each way should be in 1 day per week. The two people who live 90 miles away should be WFH (no, really?).

That's still more than I ever want to drive, especially for absolutely no reason other than to bump management's "in-the-office" numbers.

Time to move further away? :D

Stimpy

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Re: "Working from home is too convenient"
« Reply #33 on: May 18, 2021, 04:03:53 PM »
Honestly, I've been working remote my entire career (to date) and while most of that was in an office, there literally was no reason to be in the office outside free food.  I don't miss the free food.... too much.

I KNOW some people need the office environment for a number of reasons.  Up to and including that they've done it their entire lives.  That's fine by me.  I also am aware that some people need the "commute" time to think.   My commute has never been beyond 10 minutes so never had that habit.  Though, it's easy enough to fake a commute if you REALLY, REALLY need the time to think.  Heck I think there are a few articles on that one out there, for those whom need that alone time.

Personally, I don't see a reason to return to the office, but again, won't fault the workers whom do want to. I will fault most of the management though, I'll fault them to the moon and back!   Cause it's all about micromanagement for many of them, unfortunately.

Articles like this one miss the mark by miles, but I at least understand what they are trying to do.

Dave1442397

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Re: "Working from home is too convenient"
« Reply #34 on: May 18, 2021, 05:06:38 PM »
Time to move further away? :D

My wife can't WFH, and my daughter is in high school, so we're here for a while yet. I'm ok with that, it's fine for now.

One co-worker moved to Colorado last year. He went out there to look at possible retirement homes, and decided that he was going now, retired or not. He's the main architect of the major tech changes we're working on, so they let him do whatever the hell he wanted :)


TheGrimSqueaker

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Re: "Working from home is too convenient"
« Reply #35 on: May 20, 2021, 06:14:18 AM »
The most important aspect of work location and office layout comes down to one thing: the ability to concentrate. Almost without exception, the people who excel in technical or creative work are the ones who aren't subject to constant distractions and interruptions.

Multi-tasking is a myth. People who are forced to attempt to do it invariably experience a productivity hit because they can't get into the "zone" and stay there. It's fashionable to pretend that the productivity hit is due to some defect in the worker. It's not. It's related to the work environment. High achievers are typically rewarded with things like a private office, fewer meetings, the ability to delegate some tasks to others, and perhaps an assistant to answer the phone and screen out interruptions. These things, in turn, create an environment in which higher achievement becomes not only possible but easier. When it comes to a productivity-enhancing work environment, "them that's got shall get and them that's not shall lose".

The key issue with working from home is whether it increases interruptions, or reduces them.

For some people who can work from home without simultaneously having to provide child care, elder care, education for the kids and pet care, it's possible to work uninterrupted. This is at least as good as being in a private office at work, and possibly better. But if "working from home" means "absorbing all the crap nobody else wants to do and being interrupted by squalling brats or required to do the teacher's job along with your own", your productivity will go down. It's not an apples-to-apples comparison even within a household. We all know, or have read about, couples where a disproportionate amount of child care, home care, and teaching lands on one half of the couple who is "working from home" while the other half of the couple is allowed to work and concentrate. That's not equitable and the frequently-interrupted half of the couple is the one whose productivity is reduced while his or her partner, who is free to concentrate, has a much better experience and is more productive.

Commute time can be a way of enforcing work-life balance and getting into a psychological space that is conducive to getting work done. It can be a way to mentally leave work at the office. When work encroaches into the home, many people have trouble shutting it off or enforcing boundaries with bosses or co-workers who expect around-the-clock availability without wanting to pay for it. Being able to separate work from home or family activity is very important, and having a physically separate space or having to bike, walk, or commute into the work environment is useful for some.

Ultimately, I don't think that one size fits all. Much depends on the home life and other responsibilities of the worker. People who have school-aged children or toddlers, and who are the default caregivers, tend to find it more difficult to work from home.

boarder42

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Re: "Working from home is too convenient"
« Reply #36 on: May 20, 2021, 07:54:49 AM »


Ultimately, I don't think that one size fits all. Much depends on the home life and other responsibilities of the worker. People who have school-aged children or toddlers, and who are the default caregivers, tend to find it more difficult to work from home.

Agree there isn't a one size fits all which is why companies should offer 3 main options FT office, hybrid and FT home.  If both parents are working any caregiving responsibilities should be outsourced outside of the remote working location.  If you're working from home you shouldn't have a live in nanny.  If your spouse does not work and caregiving does happen in home and isolated area should be established and boundaries set.  This is very difficult to accomplish based on my experience so the dependents should be cared for outside of the household working location. 

I realize covid caused a lot of issues with these boundaries but as we move out of Covid there is no reason employers can't set this level of expectation for remote workers and allow it to continue.  Schools and daycare have reopened almost country wide your child should be attending this if you plan to work from home.

By the River

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Re: "Working from home is too convenient"
« Reply #37 on: May 20, 2021, 08:36:13 AM »
Well that escalated quickly heard we'll all be expected to go back full time in the next month or so and we get a bank of days to use - I will probably be departing sooner or later.  I mean that's why we play this game guys to be able to walk away when the situation no longer satisfies you in life.  I was going to hang out til year end but maybe not anymore.

Does the bank mean a number of days per month/year that you can work from home?  We have an old management mindset here where they want everyone at the office.  I was more happy with the hybrid approach we did for a few months.  I could propose a bank of days to work from home where the majority of time we would be at work but have days available to meet handymen, etc.   (My director is letting us somewhat work from home like this but not officially)

boarder42

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Re: "Working from home is too convenient"
« Reply #38 on: May 20, 2021, 08:40:36 AM »
Well that escalated quickly heard we'll all be expected to go back full time in the next month or so and we get a bank of days to use - I will probably be departing sooner or later.  I mean that's why we play this game guys to be able to walk away when the situation no longer satisfies you in life.  I was going to hang out til year end but maybe not anymore.

Does the bank mean a number of days per month/year that you can work from home?  We have an old management mindset here where they want everyone at the office.  I was more happy with the hybrid approach we did for a few months.  I could propose a bank of days to work from home where the majority of time we would be at work but have days available to meet handymen, etc.   (My director is letting us somewhat work from home like this but not officially)

Well company wide its 30 days per year.  In my division we always allowed people to work from home when sick/handyman/ other reasons.  So this effectively gave us nothing more than we had before except a corporate limit.  It did help other divisions that did not allow any remote work.

RetiredAt63

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Re: "Working from home is too convenient"
« Reply #39 on: May 20, 2021, 10:16:12 AM »
When I was department chair and in charge of scheduling, I tried to have all our faculty have one day with no classes or meetings.  They could work at home that day.  That included me.  It is really hard to prepare an exam or mark it afterwards when you are constantly interrupted.  A day at home (DD at school) was incredibly productive. 

I have no idea what College/University teaching is going to look like after Covid.  Some lectures may move online.  Labs generally need to be in person.

ysette9

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Re: "Working from home is too convenient"
« Reply #40 on: May 21, 2021, 07:14:06 AM »
I'm one of those people who have never worked successfully from home. Too many distractions, I never got a great setup, our house was too small to have a dedicated separate space for working.

My jobs have mostly been very collaborative, project manager, actual people manager, etc. My husband is a design engineer and tends to work best solo, uninterrupted. He has transitioned fairly well to WFH with some adjustments. I happened to FIRE just before covid lockdown so I don't have personal experience with this now.

However I spent 5 years in various management positions and experienced managing people who were all in the same building as me as well as managing people in multiple cities and states across the country. My experience is that it is very challenging to manage people equally when some you see in person and others you see once or twice a year. It is a lot more effort to connect to the remote people, establish a rapport, get them to really tell you what is on their mind, try to figure out what the roadblocks are to help them do their jobs. It is also a lot more time and effort to understand what they really are doing so you can either course correct or properly evaluate and champion them during annual review time. When I finally did get a work trip out to see people in person it was amazing how a few hours in person with each of my employees got me further along on the relationship and understanding front than months of calls and emails. I got kudos for making what I felt was a minimal effort (two trips a year to see people in person) because previous managers hadn't done even that. I saw reading the annual performance review documents how those people got shortchanged because their previous managers just didn't really understand their contributions.

My personal experience is that having initial in-person to actually get to know people short cuts a ton of time establishing a good working relationship to make subsequent remote collaboration more effective.

Metalcat

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Re: "Working from home is too convenient"
« Reply #41 on: May 21, 2021, 07:23:04 AM »
My personal experience is that having initial in-person to actually get to know people short cuts a ton of time establishing a good working relationship to make subsequent remote collaboration more effective.

Funnily, DH's experience has been the opposite.
He's had 4 different subordinates and a peer join his team since covid, and he's actually found it easier to integrate them into the team without the office nonsense and distractions.

One of the team members was only a temporary placement, and they developed such a great rapport that DH is now their mentor even though they've moved on to a new department.

It really depends on the work I think. The work DH does isn't really collaborative, so it doesn't require a ton of meetings. It requires a lot of one on one conversation with the person assigning the work (ie DH), but otherwise it's quite independent.

Meanwhile, my non-profit work is hopeless without in person meetings. It's a lot of wrangling big personalities and handling delicate group politics and egos. It just doesn't work over zoom very well.

My point is not to disagree with you, just to emphasize yet again that I don't think we can generalize anything to all workplaces.

ender

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Re: "Working from home is too convenient"
« Reply #42 on: May 21, 2021, 07:27:30 AM »
My personal experience is that having initial in-person to actually get to know people short cuts a ton of time establishing a good working relationship to make subsequent remote collaboration more effective.

Funnily, DH's experience has been the opposite.
He's had 4 different subordinates and a peer join his team since covid, and he's actually found it easier to integrate them into the team without the office nonsense and distractions.

One of the team members was only a temporary placement, and they developed such a great rapport that DH is now their mentor even though they've moved on to a new department.

It really depends on the work I think. The work DH does isn't really collaborative, so it doesn't require a ton of meetings. It requires a lot of one on one conversation with the person assigning the work (ie DH), but otherwise it's quite independent.

Meanwhile, my non-profit work is hopeless without in person meetings. It's a lot of wrangling big personalities and handling delicate group politics and egos. It just doesn't work over zoom very well.

My point is not to disagree with you, just to emphasize yet again that I don't think we can generalize anything to all workplaces.

Remote also mitigates some "hey you have a second?" water cooler conversations that exclude folks who are not at the office for whatever reason.

My team when covid hit was split between two offices. Most of us (I think 5/7) were in one office. The two people in the other office regularly commented how much more connected they felt to the team as a result of WFH.

I think it's also important to recognize that there are two types of remote.

  • Pandemic remote - 12+ months remote, no in person meetings
  • Regular remote - as many onsites as you want

Covid remote is not the same as what working remotely is in a normal world. You can much more easily take the best of both worlds in a non-pandemic remote situation.

Metalcat

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Re: "Working from home is too convenient"
« Reply #43 on: May 21, 2021, 08:27:26 AM »
My personal experience is that having initial in-person to actually get to know people short cuts a ton of time establishing a good working relationship to make subsequent remote collaboration more effective.

Funnily, DH's experience has been the opposite.
He's had 4 different subordinates and a peer join his team since covid, and he's actually found it easier to integrate them into the team without the office nonsense and distractions.

One of the team members was only a temporary placement, and they developed such a great rapport that DH is now their mentor even though they've moved on to a new department.

It really depends on the work I think. The work DH does isn't really collaborative, so it doesn't require a ton of meetings. It requires a lot of one on one conversation with the person assigning the work (ie DH), but otherwise it's quite independent.

Meanwhile, my non-profit work is hopeless without in person meetings. It's a lot of wrangling big personalities and handling delicate group politics and egos. It just doesn't work over zoom very well.

My point is not to disagree with you, just to emphasize yet again that I don't think we can generalize anything to all workplaces.

Remote also mitigates some "hey you have a second?" water cooler conversations that exclude folks who are not at the office for whatever reason.

My team when covid hit was split between two offices. Most of us (I think 5/7) were in one office. The two people in the other office regularly commented how much more connected they felt to the team as a result of WFH.

I think it's also important to recognize that there are two types of remote.

  • Pandemic remote - 12+ months remote, no in person meetings
  • Regular remote - as many onsites as you want

Covid remote is not the same as what working remotely is in a normal world. You can much more easily take the best of both worlds in a non-pandemic remote situation.

Yeah, that's a distinction as well, working from home vs truly working remote from your employer's location.

Some jobs are very amenable to being truly remote. None of DH's new subordinates work in the same province, and he'll likely never meet them. However, his peer on a different team doesn't do as much research, they hold knowledge events, so a lot of the work can be done at home, but does benefit from in person coordination.

Overtime each workplace will figure out for themselves what works. I know some companies are knee jerking back to pure in office work, but there's just SO MUCH savings to be had by not maximizing office space that eventually they won't be able to ignore the siren call of the bottom line.

Enough big companies are already not bringing people back. As someone already said, this genie isn't going back in the bottle, no matter how long some companies hold out.

The pressure of housing costs, stress of commutes, demand for remote work, and rise of the gig economy was already exerting enormous pressure to allow more out-of-office work. Covid didn't start it, it's just the massive catalyst that will speed it up because it's proving that the reasons for resistance aren't as legit a concern as everyone worried about.

Historically, requests to work from home were driven by people who needed some kind of accomodation: parents, people with disabilities, etc. So it has historically had a bias against it because there are biases against these populations.

Covid is the great leveler. With almost everyone working from home, for such a long time, it became a lot easier to see what type of work performance stayed consisted, what suffered, and what thrived.

I know that the Canadian government has absolutely no plan to bring everyone back. They have been on a mission for the past decade or so to cut their office space budget. Entire departments have been building infrastructure for remote work for years.

They're the biggest employer in the city, and other businesses have to compete with them. We have a substantial tech sector here, so they will follow pace with whatever the government does. Shopify has already said they aren't going back to the office.

As I said, perhaps some companies will knee-jerk everyone back to their cubicles at first, but the writing is on the wall in my city that the change will be rapid and permanent.

With winter commutes here being so dangerous, the employee demand will be astronomical, and we've had very high employment rates for the last few years, which means staffing shortages, so what employees want matters.

If even one major city moves quickly in this direction and companies demonstrate substantial savings as a result, even the most recalcitrant, old school CEOs can't resist a proven strategy for improving their bottom lines.

ketchup

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Re: "Working from home is too convenient"
« Reply #44 on: May 21, 2021, 10:49:52 AM »
Best thing I did for my mental health was switching from five days a week on-site to two days a week on-site and one remote.  60% less commuting time and cost has made me a much happier and more productive human.  The on-site days are necessary (though I could probably have fewer of them and be just fine), but the remote days are always more productive.  Fewer interruptions, meetings, or other bullshittery.  I don't mind some farting around with coworkers, but I also like getting shit done.

ysette9

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Re: "Working from home is too convenient"
« Reply #45 on: May 21, 2021, 03:29:42 PM »
I think there is the potential consequence of people reevaluating their living situation due to more WFH. We used to be fine in a small house but we are definitely drawn to the clown house now that we need a guest room that is distinctly separate from the office as well as considering a separate space for kids to do school work. I wonder if this will help prop up the market for the larger Boomer houses as they want to downsize, though it doesn’t address the issue of millennials not being able to afford them.

Metalcat

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Re: "Working from home is too convenient"
« Reply #46 on: May 21, 2021, 04:03:32 PM »
I think there is the potential consequence of people reevaluating their living situation due to more WFH. We used to be fine in a small house but we are definitely drawn to the clown house now that we need a guest room that is distinctly separate from the office as well as considering a separate space for kids to do school work. I wonder if this will help prop up the market for the larger Boomer houses as they want to downsize, though it doesn’t address the issue of millennials not being able to afford them.

Perhaps, but don't forget that tons of people already own much larger houses than they need. Clown houses are the norm in a lot of circles, not the exception.

ysette9

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Re: "Working from home is too convenient"
« Reply #47 on: May 21, 2021, 08:45:41 PM »
I think there is the potential consequence of people reevaluating their living situation due to more WFH. We used to be fine in a small house but we are definitely drawn to the clown house now that we need a guest room that is distinctly separate from the office as well as considering a separate space for kids to do school work. I wonder if this will help prop up the market for the larger Boomer houses as they want to downsize, though it doesn’t address the issue of millennials not being able to afford them.

Perhaps, but don't forget that tons of people already own much larger houses than they need. Clown houses are the norm in a lot of circles, not the exception.
That is easy for me to forget being in a HCOL area. Increasing the number of bedrooms to account for a separate place to work is a not-insignificant financial impact.

Metalcat

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Re: "Working from home is too convenient"
« Reply #48 on: May 21, 2021, 09:09:44 PM »
I think there is the potential consequence of people reevaluating their living situation due to more WFH. We used to be fine in a small house but we are definitely drawn to the clown house now that we need a guest room that is distinctly separate from the office as well as considering a separate space for kids to do school work. I wonder if this will help prop up the market for the larger Boomer houses as they want to downsize, though it doesn’t address the issue of millennials not being able to afford them.

Perhaps, but don't forget that tons of people already own much larger houses than they need. Clown houses are the norm in a lot of circles, not the exception.
That is easy for me to forget being in a HCOL area. Increasing the number of bedrooms to account for a separate place to work is a not-insignificant financial impact.

I think it's a big impact everywhere, but in my experience, it's also common for people to have spare bedrooms, dens, finished basements, etc, etc.

I'm not saying that having extra space isn't expensive, in saying that a lot of people have extra space despite it being expensive.

Linea_Norway

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Re: "Working from home is too convenient"
« Reply #49 on: May 22, 2021, 01:02:57 AM »
I think there is the potential consequence of people reevaluating their living situation due to more WFH. We used to be fine in a small house but we are definitely drawn to the clown house now that we need a guest room that is distinctly separate from the office as well as considering a separate space for kids to do school work. I wonder if this will help prop up the market for the larger Boomer houses as they want to downsize, though it doesn’t address the issue of millennials not being able to afford them.

I don't understand why kids should have a seperate place for school work. After COVID I presume kids will go back to school. And after that, they can do homework in their bedroom, like they used to pre-COVID.