"No point in saving for Retirement"

[Goldielocks]

I just came back from visiting friends, who have downsized to a smaller city to reduce their debts due to spending habits--

--Apparently they were $2k per month in the negative for cashflow, even with their three rental incomes, his steady job, and her business "start up" that was about 30 months old. 
--They had no more credit room or equity remaining, and had been spending inheritances off and on.  Needed to downsize in order to regain equity and credit room, I think.

We had a good conversation about how they are in the right place for them now, and able to pull finances together with only one property to cover, that suits her  (I think she was depressed in the city) and the equity from the last sold property about to be handed to them, and the fact that she is working full time now along with DH.   

She mentioned she was glad the last place sold, as they were down to only $10k left.  This is after selling a couple of other properties, too.  Includes all credit available.  Whah?   I know they received at least $80k in the past few years from three different inheritances...  They were making over 100k per year...


Anyway, I had read that people justify spending as they need to "live life now"...  but this was the first time I heard it rationalized  this way in person.

She mentioned that because her dad and uncle died early (heart failure), that there was no point in scrimping and saving for retirement if they would never see it.   So wanted to live life now with the money they have.   

At 45 years old, this was an eye opener.  People really do try to justify anything.

I was thinking that her other uncle, who just passed, was 80 years old, and her mother is still alive at 72...   so maybe she is not doomed to die before 65, and may be short sighted?  Kept my mouth shut.   Her hubby does get frustrated sometimes with the spending excess over income, but I think he would be fine spending everything, with no retirement other than govt pensions, if they just had an emergency fund and kept it at zero, instead of negative...

Have you heard anyone vocalize this rational before?

[MoonShadow]

Well, yes, I have.  I actually have a genetic disorder I inherited from my father.  My father, uncle and grandmother all died from it before 60; with my grandmother dying at 36.  My remaining aunts and uncles justify "living now" in this manner.  To me, it just compels me to try to retire sooner, so that I might actually have a retirement.

[forummm]

I've heard people who are perfectly healthy and have no family history of health problems say they need to live life now. People don't need an excuse to be frivolous. If they can get their hands on money, they won't have it for long.

[wenchsenior]

Well, yes, I have.  I actually have a genetic disorder I inherited from my father.  My father, uncle and grandmother all died from it before 60; with my grandmother dying at 36.  My remaining aunts and uncles justify "living now" in this manner.  To me, it just compels me to try to retire sooner, so that I might actually have a retirement.

Ah, now I begin to see how you could have formed some of your opinions expressed in other threads.

[Marus]

I think it's a ridiculous argument.  Living life now is a great goal, but if it's not sustainable or part of your larger life plans then it probably needs some tweaking.  You've gotta have enough foresight to make sure living life now doesn't turn into living life yesterday.

If I knew I was going to die before I turned 65 I wouldn't just go out and blow my entire investment account in the name of "living now".  I would, however, take a long look at what my priorities are and work to make time for all my non-work related goals.

Oh wait, I'm doing that already! :)

[hdatontodo]

My DW (49) has FMD (the artery version, not the cow version). She was saying she didn't want me to retire early at 55 since when she's 70, she might have a stroke and need $3/month nursing care. Quite the opposite of "blow it now"

[Goldielocks]

Well, yes, I have.  I actually have a genetic disorder I inherited from my father.  My father, uncle and grandmother all died from it before 60; with my grandmother dying at 36.  My remaining aunts and uncles justify "living now" in this manner.  To me, it just compels me to try to retire sooner, so that I might actually have a retirement.

Great point!  I should have thought of this at the time, but I was a bit gobsmacked when I heard it.    Next time I could reply with.."So why don't you retire early, then?".. 

I am sure the answer will be about having more time with the kids now, and there is time to work later...  She is counting on working for at least 15-20 years, to get a retirement pension that is decent.  However, those jobs have a lot of "suck up the boring work/people you don't like", and she usually gets frustrated and essentially quits every 1.5 years.   

[MoonShadow]

Well, yes, I have.  I actually have a genetic disorder I inherited from my father.  My father, uncle and grandmother all died from it before 60; with my grandmother dying at 36.  My remaining aunts and uncles justify "living now" in this manner.  To me, it just compels me to try to retire sooner, so that I might actually have a retirement.

Ah, now I begin to see how you could have formed some of your opinions expressed in other threads.

I never claimed I wasn't biased, but I was a libertarian long before I was diagnosed, so the obvious fact that I can't reasonably expect a return on SS was not a factor in the development of my opinions.

[wenchsenior]

Well, yes, I have.  I actually have a genetic disorder I inherited from my father.  My father, uncle and grandmother all died from it before 60; with my grandmother dying at 36.  My remaining aunts and uncles justify "living now" in this manner.  To me, it just compels me to try to retire sooner, so that I might actually have a retirement.

Ah, now I begin to see how you could have formed some of your opinions expressed in other threads.

I never claimed I wasn't biased, but I was a libertarian long before I was diagnosed, so the obvious fact that I can't reasonably expect a return on SS was not a factor in the development of my opinions.

Fair enough. Just looking for a window of understanding :yanks fingers back from windowsill:

[zephyr911]

Let us keep in mind that Mustachianism is NOT about being miserable now so you can get rich, retire, and then try to be happy. (Good luck trying to convince my wife!!! lol). Right at the beginning, that key phrase, "focusing on happiness itself", that's the point of it all.

It's about maximizing the bang for your buck on happiness today, tomorrow, and for the rest of your life. It's about realizing most of the modern conveniences we're conditioned to think we need for happiness are just traps that keep us on a treadmill, selectively eliminating or minimizing them, and being happy today while getting rich for tomorrow.

I'm not even sure I can honestly call myself Mustachian, because I'm still working to shed some fairly retarded spending habits, but I can say that between finally deciding to actually work for the future I want, and trying to apply some MMM principles, I've developed a pretty strong sense of having my cake and eating it too, right here and now. An SR of 50% and climbing is just a side effect of the upgraded approach to happiness.

[One Noisy Cat]

  There is a story about baseball great Mickey Mantle whose father and grandfather died before 40, probably a result of working in mines. Mantle ended up drinking and smoking heavily, often with his sons.  In his early 60s he went to rehab and got a liver transplant but they discovered cancer and he died at age 63. He would say that if he had known he wouldn't die young, he would have taken better care of himself

[Capsu78]

  There is a story about baseball great Mickey Mantle whose father and grandfather died before 40, probably a result of working in mines. Mantle ended up drinking and smoking heavily, often with his sons.  In his early 60s he went to rehab and got a liver transplant but they discovered cancer and he died at age 63. He would say that if he had known he wouldn't die young, he would have taken better care of himself

My grandmother was a big fan of his and said he packed 5 lifetimes of fun into those 63 years.