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Around the Internet => Antimustachian Wall of Shame and Comedy => Topic started by: mydogismyheart on October 21, 2014, 01:30:49 PM

Title: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: mydogismyheart on October 21, 2014, 01:30:49 PM
http://toprightnews.com/?p=6192

This is just sad...
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: cavewoman on October 21, 2014, 03:08:24 PM
Agreed, that is about the saddest "news" website I have seen.

wth? the header links on that page are crazy.

Ebola
Oklahoma Beheading
Immigration
Common Core
Ferguson
ISIS
Guns

Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: gimp on October 21, 2014, 03:33:17 PM
Fatties gonna fat. If they were the sort of people to take responsibility for their actions, they wouldn't be obeasts.
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: Zillo7 on October 21, 2014, 03:33:51 PM
I wish I could get 62k/year by stealing other people's money  in free money  in government assistance. :(

She's the reason why I think the welfare system is a waste of resources.
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: MrsPete on October 21, 2014, 04:26:46 PM
I note she can afford hair color, a tattoo, and a lip ring. 
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: GuitarStv on October 21, 2014, 07:19:29 PM
Is this a confirmed real person?
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: data.Damnation on October 21, 2014, 07:29:04 PM
I think you guys got trolled.
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: franklin w. dixon on October 21, 2014, 08:35:20 PM
I think you guys got trolled.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eBT6OSr1TI
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: rocksinmyhead on October 22, 2014, 06:49:26 AM
Agreed, that is about the saddest "news" website I have seen.

wth? the header links on that page are crazy.

Ebola
Oklahoma Beheading
Immigration
Common Core
Ferguson
ISIS
Guns

hahahahaha

they forgot "Benghazi"
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: LalsConstant on October 22, 2014, 08:30:38 AM
Fatties gonna fat. If they were the sort of people to take responsibility for their actions, they wouldn't be obeasts.

I am sorely tempted to respond with a concise "Fuck.  You."  However, that is not conducive to understanding or correction.  Also, I'm sure gimp didn't mean this as a personal affront and I perhaps knee jerked a bit.  I admit I'm a bit testy here lately since weight loss is front and center in my mind right now, but I've decided to speak my peace here all the same.

Weight loss is not a simple matter of knowing calories out must be greater than calories in.  Conceptually, it's simple, but that doesn't mean it's easy.

One of the factors that makes weight loss so hard is long is that for many of us, the weight packs on during a time of our lives when we are fundamentally unhappy people, suffering from anxiety, depression, and other issues.

While I'm not suggesting we view depression, for example, as an excuse for bad behavior, we should consider that these type of menthal health problems can be brought on or intensified by external occurrences.

Therefore it is asinine to say all overweight people are simply irresponsible and act like that is all there is to it, such an interpretation is positively sociopathic.

Rather it is better to say people who suffer from obesity are irresponsible because they do not prioritize their health, instead putting issues like depression, poor self concept, etc. as their focus.

The problem is, "fatties" have got to muster a considerable amount more of willpower to realize they truly are better than not only their weight problem, but also the synthesis of their weight problem and all those contributing factors.  To overcome those exacerbating issues is simply far more difficult than is commonly understood or perceived.

And quite frankly unfounded negative comments about their personal character do not contribute to such a momentous epiphany of self-worth.  They do not need to be told how terrible they are, they need to be told they are better than what they currently do to themselves.

They need to be told to forgive themselves and let the past go, and that life is worth living and it's possible to be healthy if you want it more than you want cake, comfort food, sugar, etc.  You can't make them believe it, but it doesn't hurt to hear it all the same.

Telling them they're stupid, irresponsible, bad, or whatever you want to call it accomplishes nothing.  Just getting a person to the state where they realize their life is worth more than the comfort they get from their bad eating habits is in and of itself a monumental effort, and every jab, nasty comment and hurtful thing someone says about them on the way pushes them a little further away from realizing this.

"Fatties" are not terrible people of poor character who are fat because they're bad.  Fatties are normal people who lost their way, perhaps lost hope, forgot that they were important, or got their priorities mixed up or all of the above, who now have a behavior problem that is not trivial to solve.  Studies have shown it takes, on average, 12 serious attempts to lose weight before a dieter achieves success.

Shaming will not solve someone's weight problem.  It just makes them feel worse about themselves, and they retreat into their coping mechanisms, which makes them even fatter and subject to more ridicule and it just continues.

You don't have to and shouldn't condone poor choices made by others.  However, such a comment is, if anything, only further shaming people who need to work through their difficult personal problems into continuing their poor behavior.  If you see a man teetering on the edge of a pit, you have no responsibility to drag him to safety, however you damn well better not shove him in either.
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: crazyworld on October 22, 2014, 08:46:13 AM
+1 LalsConsant! If it were that easy to lose weight, none of us would be fat.  I have had weight issues since childhood, and I grew up in a 3rd world country, before we had fast food, pizza, soda, chips etc.  I managed to have a problem predominantly eating homemade veggies/lentils/bread.  Heck my grandma was obese since her youth, and she was growing up at a time when they did not even have electricity - all work done manually and nothing processed available at all.  I do eat to deal with emotions, comfort foods are called that for a reason.
DH is naturally slim - it takes a lot for him to gain weight and he loses it quick (he never exercises).  He does not feel the need to badger me about my weight from his easy place, smart man!
Anyway, my first job if I ever RE is to use all that free time to work out every single day for 2 hours and cook all my meals from scratch.  If I treat losing weight as a job, I manage to keep it in check.  If life gets in the way, I am done for. That's just the way it is.
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: boarder42 on October 22, 2014, 08:50:16 AM
with the socialization of healthcare in this country ... weight is the next thing that will come to the forefront.  Just like smoking you CAN control what you put into your body.  smoking and obesity are already 2 main things that will help you get deduction at my work place.  healthy people shouldnt have to support the bad decisions of others.  ( obviously some things arent controllable ie birth defects etc. )

comfort eating = comfort smoking. 

these will one day be seen as one and the same.   
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: Bob W on October 22, 2014, 08:55:11 AM
with the socialization of healthcare in this country ... weight is the next thing that will come to the forefront.  Just like smoking you CAN control what you put into your body.  smoking and obesity are already 2 main things that will help you get deduction at my work place.  healthy people shouldnt have to support the bad decisions of others.  ( obviously some things arent controllable ie birth defects etc. )

comfort eating = comfort smoking. 

these will one day be seen as one and the same.

Yeah,  I can see restaurants banning eating or hotels having "eat free" rooms.   It will be nice when the university declares an "eat free" campus policy as well. 
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: madame librarian on October 22, 2014, 09:04:38 AM
Just wanted to jump in on the "lol this website" comments. I don't trust anything that tries to pop up an ad for Viagra.
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: boarder42 on October 22, 2014, 09:14:55 AM
i'm just saying you have 100% control over what goes in your body.  to claim that you cant control it is to make the same claim as an addict of drugs.  so everyone here who is saying its not controllable must have the same sympathy for a heroin addict as an overweight person. 

guess what i lost 40 lbs since january.  and by american standards i wasnt fat when i started losing it.  i didnt work out i just changed my diet.  the people on this site above most others should understand the power of self control.  you do it with money just apply it to food.
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: rocksinmyhead on October 22, 2014, 09:24:12 AM
with the socialization of healthcare in this country ... weight is the next thing that will come to the forefront.  Just like smoking you CAN control what you put into your body.  smoking and obesity are already 2 main things that will help you get deduction at my work place.  healthy people shouldnt have to support the bad decisions of others.  ( obviously some things arent controllable ie birth defects etc. )

comfort eating = comfort smoking. 

these will one day be seen as one and the same.

Yeah,  I can see restaurants banning eating or hotels having "eat free" rooms.   It will be nice when the university declares an "eat free" campus policy as well.

yeah I hate when I get "secondhand eating" from walking past a "fatty" stuffing their face. ha.

LalsConstant, thanks for that. I am glad you didn't stop at a simple "fuck you" (thought it would have been easier) and instead educated all of us. As someone who has never in my life struggled with weight issues (and who genuinely enjoys exercise, which is also lucky), I do have to check myself sometimes to make sure I'm not being a totally judgmental bitch about overweight people. But your post totally blew my mind because I NEVER put weight issues together with depression/anxiety/other mental health issues. As someone who struggles on and off with anxiety and general self-loathing, I have thought to myself many times that I should probably seek professional help for the sake of myself and my relationships. But when you hate yourself and are totally overwhelmed by EVERYTHING in your life, the idea of adding a new, overwhelming challenge where you have no idea what you're doing and could possibly embarrass yourself and just really don't even know where to begin is reeeeeeally hard to actually make a move on. It's easy for me to see how this would be much the same for someone who is struggling with weight issues. Wow. Just really never thought about it like that before. So thanks. :)
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: boarder42 on October 22, 2014, 09:29:03 AM
the smoking comment was meant for the health side effects.  If you havent noticed all healthcare forms now ask you if you smoke. and at my company my work makes you have a certain BMI (not the best guage) but they still use it to receive all the deductions. 

emotional eating, emotional smoking, emotional drinking, emotional drug doing.  explain how its different.  in each case you're cognitively putting something in your body you know will have a negative effect. 

all of these things directly affect your health which affects everyone in the country b/c we will have to support your poor decisions some day. 

you have a choice just make the right one and we'll all lead better lives together.
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: rocksinmyhead on October 22, 2014, 09:44:37 AM
you have a choice just make the right one and we'll all lead better lives together.

I like this, I think it's empowering, but it's also not just that easy for everyone. plus I feel like with your comparisons to alcohol and drug abuse you're assuming everyone thinks those behaviors are a sign of moral weakness or something. in some cases,  absolutely, but true addiction is also a mental illness that most people need some help to treat. if you don't see it that way then we're just gonna have to agree to disagree :)
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: Bob W on October 22, 2014, 09:58:58 AM
Ever notice how prior to the war on poverty that virtually everyone in the country was slim?  Now it is just the opposite.   Weird how that works? 
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: boarder42 on October 22, 2014, 10:02:49 AM
"its not that easy for everyone"

Is the definition of a complainypants statement.  It is that easy people choose not to do it. 

making up excuses for why you cant do something is what the 100 page thread has at its core.  OH i cant afford that - but then buys lunch every day.  etc. 

i'm fat b/c of XYZ ... ok so stop doing XYZ ....

i love kettle ships
i love chocolate chip cookie dough ice cream
some days i work long hours and i'm on the road and the only place to eat is mcdonalds.
i cant lose weight  .... wrong complainypants. 

people who are mentally ill are those who have had something happen to them outside of their control that made them that way.  all things listed in my post above are 100% controllable by the individual. 

you can make excuses all you want and say it isnt easy but thats just copping out and not addressing your own REAL problems you have.
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: Jags4186 on October 22, 2014, 10:12:53 AM
Yea I mean unless you have some underlying medical issue for why you are fat there's no reason to be fat. Unhappy and want to stuff your face? That's fine but then don't say your fat because you're depressed. You're fat because you're depressed and chose to deal with that depression via Oreos.

Biologically speaking it is just as easy to lose weight as to gain weight. It's when you realize that it takes an hour on the treadmill to burn off the calories you consumed in 5 minutes while watching tv is why it's "hard".


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: gimp on October 22, 2014, 11:26:21 AM
Everyone blames their problems on something else. "It's my condishuns!" When it's not the thyroid, or the 'beetus or the knees, it's your mental whatevers.

Eat less. Move more. It is no more complicated than that, it is entirely willpower. So tell me "fuck you" all you want, I can always turn off the internet (or walk up the stairs quickly.)
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: Cinder on October 22, 2014, 12:14:33 PM
This reminds me of a story I saw a while ago.. A personal trainer gained weight till he was obese, and then lost it again..

http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/05/health/drew-manning-fit2fat2fit-lessons/

He did note a HUGE difference in mood, and how it was a struggle to begin losing weight.  And now that he's back down, he still has a lot of the cravings for junk food he picked up while he was out of shape. 

Quote
(CNN) -- When Drew Manning stepped out from behind the cardboard cutout of his former fat self on Monday, the audience of "Good Morning America" was appropriately shocked.

The fitness trainer's journey had come to an end after successfully losing more than 70 pounds -- six months after he purposely gained the same amount. "Like it never happened," host George Stephanopoulos said.

"Kind of," Manning said. Both Manning and his wife, Lynn, can attest that a lot actually has changed in the past year. While Manning's body may have returned to its six-pack heydays, his mind, in many ways, has not.

Always a fitness junkie, staying in shape comes naturally for Manning. He's that guy at the gym the rest of us love to hate, the one who likes to use his biceps for pumping iron instead of changing channels, and who prefers sucking down a spinach shake to indulging in a brownie sundae.



How to really lose weight

Low-carb vs. low-fat for weight loss

Social media helps woman drop 180 pounds Because of that, Manning was a "judgmental" trainer, his wife says. "He would look at someone who was overweight and say, 'They must really be lazy.'

"I was convinced people used genetics or similar excuses as a crutch," Manning writes in his new book, "Fit2Fat2Fit." "You either wanted to be healthy or you didn't."

The link between fat and cancer

That point of view wasn't helping Manning help his clients. When he failed yet again to push someone over to the light side, he knew something was wrong. In order to better understand the struggles his clients were facing, he had to face them himself.

He gave up the gym and started consuming junk food, fast food and soda. In just six months, he went from 193 pounds with a 34-inch waist to 265 pounds with a 48-inch waist.

Lynn saw the difference in her husband in less time than that. He became lethargic, stopped helping around the house and was less than eager to play with their 2-year-old daughter.

"He was so insecure -- saying 'I'm so fat. I look so horrible,' constantly complaining about how he looks," she said.

Manning says he didn't realize the effects of his weight gain would be more than physical. It altered his relationships and his self-confidence. Returning to the gym after the Fit2Fat portion of his journey made him nervous. The fact that he had to do push-ups on his knees was almost humiliating.

"The biggest thing [I learned] is that it's not just about the physical. It's not just about the meal plan and the workouts and those things. The key is the mental and the emotional issues. I realized those issues are real."

Of course, Manning had his critics. Experts said that his stunt was dangerous. His blood pressure and cholesterol shot up with such dramatic weight gain. But Manning has no regrets. The followers on his website have encouraged him with their own tales of weight loss.

A fat girl gets naked

"We see the success stories of people losing all this weight, but it's more common now," he says. "To see someone do it in reverse on purpose -- it's mind blowing. A balance of craziness and inspiration."

Manning suffered through soda deprivation headaches and food cravings on his way back to fit. The journey was easier for him than for most, he'll admit, but he's eager now to provide tips for others to follow in his footsteps.

Power walker loses 150 pounds

Lynn is just glad to have her husband back, maybe a bit better than he was before. Before Fit2Fat2Fit, the self-described foodie wife would make treats, and Manning wouldn't even look at them.

"Now he craves them," she says with a laugh. "It might be cruel, but I like that. I like that he's humanized."

Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: boarder42 on October 22, 2014, 12:29:23 PM
that Fit2Fat2Fit is interesting.  again i think this applies to money too... i mean you always here people complaining about living paycheck to paycheck and all the emotional problems it causes and stress. But many put themselves there thru spending habits... and once you start those it is harder to stop.... The people of this blog should be embracing the concept of weight loss just like the concept of frugality is proposed. 

i'm gonna go ahead and say it ... being overweight is on par with hair on fire debt - for mustachians. 
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: mm1970 on October 22, 2014, 01:56:32 PM
Yea I mean unless you have some underlying medical issue for why you are fat there's no reason to be fat. Unhappy and want to stuff your face? That's fine but then don't say your fat because you're depressed. You're fat because you're depressed and chose to deal with that depression via Oreos.

Biologically speaking it is just as easy to lose weight as to gain weight. It's when you realize that it takes an hour on the treadmill to burn off the calories you consumed in 5 minutes while watching tv is why it's "hard".


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ha ha ha ha!

No, it is not, in fact, biologically as easy to lose weight as it is to gain weight.
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: Jags4186 on October 22, 2014, 02:12:15 PM
Yea I mean unless you have some underlying medical issue for why you are fat there's no reason to be fat. Unhappy and want to stuff your face? That's fine but then don't say your fat because you're depressed. You're fat because you're depressed and chose to deal with that depression via Oreos.

Biologically speaking it is just as easy to lose weight as to gain weight. It's when you realize that it takes an hour on the treadmill to burn off the calories you consumed in 5 minutes while watching tv is why it's "hard".


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ha ha ha ha!

No, it is not, in fact, biologically as easy to lose weight as it is to gain weight.

Agree to disagree.  Yes your body wants to "retain" weight as much as possible...but if you burn 3500 calories more than you eat you will lose a pound.  And I'm not talking about "water weight" or lean body mass or getting super technical here...I'm being relatively simplistic.  We can have a super in depth conversation if you want but this isn't the forum for that.

I've gained and lost and gained and lost a significant amount of weight.  Once you get over the "woe is I" attitude you can work the weight off.  Nobody realizes how hard it is to actually gain weight because the events surrounding the weight gain are "pleasurable".  A night out with the guy for beer and wings.  Cake after dinner.  Ice cream at a party.  You don't gain 50lbs overnight its from night after night after night of bad choices. 

Let's see...which group of people is likely to be fatter---friend who get together every Sunday and BBQ and drink while watching the football games or friends who go hiking/camping every weekend.
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: Eric on October 22, 2014, 03:02:36 PM
I think you guys got trolled.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eBT6OSr1TI

Ha!  That was great.  Nice find!
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: MoneyCat on October 22, 2014, 04:05:26 PM
Poor people are the worst.  Why don't they just get jobs working in tech?  All they have to do is be reborn into functional supportive middle-class families who provide the computer equipment and training necessary for the job while simultaneously being reborn with the aptitude to be able to do the job.  That's not so hard, right?
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: mm1970 on October 22, 2014, 06:56:17 PM
Yea I mean unless you have some underlying medical issue for why you are fat there's no reason to be fat. Unhappy and want to stuff your face? That's fine but then don't say your fat because you're depressed. You're fat because you're depressed and chose to deal with that depression via Oreos.

Biologically speaking it is just as easy to lose weight as to gain weight. It's when you realize that it takes an hour on the treadmill to burn off the calories you consumed in 5 minutes while watching tv is why it's "hard".


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ha ha ha ha!

No, it is not, in fact, biologically as easy to lose weight as it is to gain weight.

Agree to disagree.  Yes your body wants to "retain" weight as much as possible...but if you burn 3500 calories more than you eat you will lose a pound.  And I'm not talking about "water weight" or lean body mass or getting super technical here...I'm being relatively simplistic.  We can have a super in depth conversation if you want but this isn't the forum for that.

I've gained and lost and gained and lost a significant amount of weight.  Once you get over the "woe is I" attitude you can work the weight off.  Nobody realizes how hard it is to actually gain weight because the events surrounding the weight gain are "pleasurable".  A night out with the guy for beer and wings.  Cake after dinner.  Ice cream at a party.  You don't gain 50lbs overnight its from night after night after night of bad choices. 

Let's see...which group of people is likely to be fatter---friend who get together every Sunday and BBQ and drink while watching the football games or friends who go hiking/camping every weekend.
Sorry, but no.  It's not simply as easy as 3500 calories = one pound.  In fact relatively recent research shows that your body is way more efficient at maintaining a certain set point weight (meaning, it takes a lot more than 3500 calories to lose a pound and more than 3500 calories to gain a pound, usually).

I have gained and lost weight quite a bit too.  It is TOTALLY different losing baby weight at 44 than it was at 37, or just losing "hey how did I get to be over 180 pounds" weight at 32.  All other things equal - same amount of exercise, same amount of calories.  It's just DIFFERENT.  Stress, sleep, are only part of the equation.

While only a couple of hundred extra calories a day results in fairly fast weight gain if I'm under a lot of stress, unfortunately I have to cut at least 500 calories a day from maintenance to lose 1/2 lb a week.
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: gimp on October 22, 2014, 06:58:30 PM
Quote
Sorry, but no.  It's not simply as easy as 3500 calories = one pound.  In fact relatively recent research shows that your body is way more efficient at maintaining a certain set point weight (meaning, it takes a lot more than 3500 calories to lose a pound and more than 3500 calories to gain a pound, usually).

Bullshit.
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: mm1970 on October 22, 2014, 07:09:20 PM
Everyone blames their problems on something else. "It's my condishuns!" When it's not the thyroid, or the 'beetus or the knees, it's your mental whatevers.

Eat less. Move more. It is no more complicated than that, it is entirely willpower. So tell me "fuck you" all you want, I can always turn off the internet (or walk up the stairs quickly.)

I am still going to say eff you.

I'm old.  I had a baby at 42.  My knees hurt, my back hurts, my ankles hurt.  I have a full time job and two small children.

I count calories and eat about 1200-1500 a day.
I walk 30 minutes on my lunch break 5x a week.
I swim 45 minutes 2x a week.
I do weight training workouts for 30-40 minutes 2x a week.
I generally walk on the weekends, pushing a stroller, usually for an hour.

And for that?
Well, if I can manage to keep 6 of my days under 1400, I may lose 1/2 lb a week.

If I can't?  I don't.

So a big EFF YOU.

I eat a healthier diet and exercise more than 90% of Americans but I'm still FAT.
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: Jags4186 on October 22, 2014, 07:20:48 PM

Everyone blames their problems on something else. "It's my condishuns!" When it's not the thyroid, or the 'beetus or the knees, it's your mental whatevers.

Eat less. Move more. It is no more complicated than that, it is entirely willpower. So tell me "fuck you" all you want, I can always turn off the internet (or walk up the stairs quickly.)

I am still going to say eff you.

I'm old.  I had a baby at 42.  My knees hurt, my back hurts, my ankles hurt.  I have a full time job and two small children.

I count calories and eat about 1200-1500 a day.
I walk 30 minutes on my lunch break 5x a week.
I swim 45 minutes 2x a week.
I do weight training workouts for 30-40 minutes 2x a week.
I generally walk on the weekends, pushing a stroller, usually for an hour.

And for that?
Well, if I can manage to keep 6 of my days under 1400, I may lose 1/2 lb a week.

If I can't?  I don't.

So a big EFF YOU.

I eat a healthier diet and exercise more than 90% of Americans but I'm still FAT.

Everyone ready for fireworks?

Perhaps you're eating too little and your body is in starvation mode?

The older you get the less lean body tissue you have. The less lean body tissue you have the slower your metabolism becomes hence why you tend to gain a little.

Honestly though. Anyone who is significantly overweight (30+ lbs) and legitimately eats 1400-1600 calories a day and works out 6x a week would lose weight. My guess? You underestimate how much you eat.
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: mm1970 on October 22, 2014, 07:25:40 PM
Quote
Sorry, but no.  It's not simply as easy as 3500 calories = one pound.  In fact relatively recent research shows that your body is way more efficient at maintaining a certain set point weight (meaning, it takes a lot more than 3500 calories to lose a pound and more than 3500 calories to gain a pound, usually).

Bullshit.
http://www.foodpolitics.com/2010/01/how-many-extra-calories-cause-weight-gain/

Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: mm1970 on October 22, 2014, 07:30:17 PM

Everyone blames their problems on something else. "It's my condishuns!" When it's not the thyroid, or the 'beetus or the knees, it's your mental whatevers.

Eat less. Move more. It is no more complicated than that, it is entirely willpower. So tell me "fuck you" all you want, I can always turn off the internet (or walk up the stairs quickly.)

I am still going to say eff you.

I'm old.  I had a baby at 42.  My knees hurt, my back hurts, my ankles hurt.  I have a full time job and two small children.

I count calories and eat about 1200-1500 a day.
I walk 30 minutes on my lunch break 5x a week.
I swim 45 minutes 2x a week.
I do weight training workouts for 30-40 minutes 2x a week.
I generally walk on the weekends, pushing a stroller, usually for an hour.

And for that?
Well, if I can manage to keep 6 of my days under 1400, I may lose 1/2 lb a week.

If I can't?  I don't.

So a big EFF YOU.

I eat a healthier diet and exercise more than 90% of Americans but I'm still FAT.

Everyone ready for fireworks?

Perhaps you're eating too little and your body is in starvation mode?

The older you get the less lean body tissue you have. The less lean body tissue you have the slower your metabolism becomes hence why you tend to gain a little.

Honestly though. Anyone who is significantly overweight (30+ lbs) and legitimately eats 1400-1600 calories a day and works out 6x a week would lose weight. My guess? You underestimate how much you eat.
I am well aware of starvation mode.  When I was in my 30's, 1200 calories would have been it.  When I was on WW in 2002 I hit my "goal", added in more "points" and the weight started coming off even faster (below  a healthy weight for me).

Sadly, not the case at this point in my life.  I tried for quite awhile to lose weight on more like 1600-1800, with the same activity level.  Nothing, nada, all that work weighing, measuring, entering into myfitnesspal every.single.day.  Nothing.

Makes me sad.

My coworkers ask "is it worth it?"  I said "I'll tell you if I get there".  No sweets, no alcohol, no bread...it's depressing.  I just hope I can lose the baby weight before I hit menopause.
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: neophyte on October 22, 2014, 07:32:58 PM
comfort eating = comfort smoking. 

Exactly.

Former smokers know they can't smoke just one cigarette because that could set them right back into their addiction. Recovering alcoholics know they can't have even one drink on a special occasion because even if they haven't tasted alcohol in 20 years, that one drink could set them off.  Formerly obese people and recovering overeaters know better than to ever eat another meal because that could.....wait....oh.

Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: Primm on October 22, 2014, 07:44:40 PM
comfort eating = comfort smoking. 

Exactly.

Former smokers know they can't smoke just one cigarette because that could set them right back into their addiction. Recovering alcoholics know they can't have even one drink on a special occasion because even if they haven't tasted alcohol in 20 years, that one drink could set them off.  Formerly obese people and recovering overeaters know better than to ever eat another meal because that could.....wait....oh.

+1.
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: iris lily on October 22, 2014, 07:49:55 PM
I live in the urban core. I used to take a guy home from work who lived in the projects and who worked with me. We both live about 1+ mile from work. I would talk about walking (which I often did) and we shared battle of the bulge stories. When I didn't drive him home, he took the bus.

He said that he couldn't afford a gym so that's why he couldn't get fit.

At least I knew that I should be walking even if I wasn't always walking to work. He didn't seem to know that. And while to this MMM crowd driving such a short distance is clownish, I personally think that standing, waiting for a buss for 20+ minutes is even stupider. It's a 30 minute walk, why stand for 20 of that time, just hoof it.

Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: mm1970 on October 22, 2014, 08:01:37 PM
Sorry, I'm a little sensitive today...husband out of town for the week traveling for work, both kids sick, not sleeping well.  I've missed two days at work and the lack of sleep and no spouse means minimal exercise.  I'm cranky.

What I'm getting at is "don't judge a book by its cover".

Whenever people go off on fat people - you don't know if that person has always been fat, is stressed out, had surgery.  You don't know if they just lost 30, 50, 100 pounds.  You don't know what they are dealing with, what they are eating, how much they are exercising.

I am the first person to encourage people to eat right and exercise for their health - but it's not going to help if they are still judged for their size.  If we can't be perfect, why bother trying?
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: BPA on October 22, 2014, 08:14:35 PM
I am overweight.  I guess the fact that I have a metabolic disorder makes me complainypants and weak.

Oh...and I belong to a support group of incest survivors.  Almost all of them are overweight because they try to hide behind a layer of fat.  Being fat makes them feel safe.  I guess that concept might be difficult to understand if you haven't been there and after many years of therapy, that is no longer my issue.

I was seriously pissed when I found out that it wasn't just the incest that was a problem, but that I have the metabolic disorder too.  I'm working on it, but simple calories in/calories out doesn't work for everyone.  A lot of people have insulin resistance. 


Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: gimp on October 22, 2014, 08:17:28 PM
Quote
I count calories and eat about 1200-1500 a day.

I've heard that before.

Here's a website dedicated to willpower and choices. Here's you belly-aching about how things aren't your fault and you already do everything perfectly.

Oh, and that (suspect) article you linked? It argues that it's harder to gain weight than we think. So you have even less excuse. It does not argue the other way around. You may draw that connection but that's yet another assumption with no evidence. (Regardless, it's pretty suspect - the website itself, and the article. I'll believe it when I see scientific consensus, not one opinion tenuously linked to one paper, which isn't a study but is a two-page-long blurb and is hardly a valid source for... anything.)

"If we can't be perfect, why bother trying?"

We can be perfect. That's the beauty of it. I'm not a particularly handsome dude, but I have no fat on my belly. It makes life a lot easier. Miles-long mountainous hikes with gear and food and water are a leisurely weekend activity. Interestingly, I've also tried measuring how much food I eat, to encourage a friend; it turned out that without trying at all I hovered at 1400 a day while she (despite being shorter and smaller) consistently ate 3-500 more. That was her "normal" and she couldn't imagine how it was so much when I ate more volume and fewer calories. My simple strategy is to cook my own food, and use only simple ingredients, and very few of them. Food you get prepared - including bread, meat, and so on - manages to stick an absolutely massive amount of calories and other shit into a small package that really doesn't fill you up; a $1 cheeseburger is 400+ calories. ($1 also feeds me for an entire day.)

People weren't fat in the past, except for the wealthy. We have far more knowledge today about nutrition and a massive opportunity to turn knowledge into practice.

I'm no hypocrite. If I gain weight, I'll think back to how I think about fat people and I'll lose the damn weight. Hasn't happened so far.

BPA, what metabolic disorder specifically? What effect does it have? I know a guy with a thyroid disorder (a real one, unlike 99% of claimants) and he's, what, fifteen pounds overweight at most? Can't even tell. Because he works out and eats right. It's harder for him than other people but he does it. "Slow metabolism?" I've heard that one too; it's just as bullshit. A slow metabolism might account for a hundred, maybe two hundred calories at most compared to a fast one.

It's hilarious to see fat apologists on a website dedicated to willpower and living lean. What's next, "I only drive my SUV because it's so much more comfortable than a normal car?"
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: BPA on October 22, 2014, 08:25:56 PM
Insulin resistance.  Ironically because carbs (which are cheap) were my primary food source when I first tried to save money which actually kind of relates to the thread title.  I only recently realized it was part of the problem.  It wasn't until after I dealt with the emotional eating aspect of the incest and the weight still wasn't coming off like it should, that after reading a lot, I put it all together.

I try to follow the Insulin Resistance Diet or other low carb diets, and the weight is coming off, but I'm 46 and it's pretty slow.

I wish I knew that I was Insulin Resistant earlier instead of getting frustrated with calories in/out.  I can only go on from here. 

It is more expensive following IRD than it was the CI/CO I was following before.

And hey.  If anyone is interested, myfitnesspal.com is a great place to log for free.  I like it because it tracks carbs, protein, and fat.  Just a warning though, the calories burned via exercise thing is inflated for most people.  Too bad because I cycle like mad and according to MFP, I should weigh about -160 pounds by now.  :)  Instead of 190 like I do.
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: Jacana on October 22, 2014, 08:31:25 PM
One of the biggest factors in weight loss is giving yourself time. Just like the financial issues people face and conquer here. You won't pay off $100,000 in debt overnight, you won't become a millionaire in a year, you won't lose 10 lbs in a month. But slow and steady, no fads, no quick fixes, not getting discouraged, celebrating the smaller victories as they snowball to the finish line... 1/2 lb a week is great. But 1/4 lb a week is good too and that still adds up to 13 lbs a year! Just like $10 decisions add up to make a millionaire, so do small decisions about eating and health. And it gets easier as you progress.
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: Hotstreak on October 22, 2014, 08:43:42 PM
Fatties gonna fat. If they were the sort of people to take responsibility for their actions, they wouldn't be obeasts.
I am sorely tempted to respond with a concise "Fuck.  You."  However, that is not conducive to understanding or correction.  Also, I'm sure gimp didn't mean this as a personal affront and I perhaps knee jerked a bit.  I admit I'm a bit testy here lately since weight loss is front and center in my mind right now, but I've decided to speak my peace here all the same.
. . .

Therefore it is asinine to say all overweight people are simply irresponsible and act like that is all there is to it, such an interpretation is positively sociopathic.

. . .



Look, I understand you're upset, but calling gimp sociopathic is a bit over the line.


From my experience as a fit person, then a fatty, then a fit person again, self control and willingness to put forth effort is the key.  I've had experience with all the specific conditions you talk about and they're nothing but excuses.


It's hard to say no to dessert, to stop watching TV all day, to ride your bike all over town.  Guess what though.. lots of things in life are hard.  You can choose to do them, or not.
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: gimp on October 22, 2014, 08:51:28 PM
No worries, robby, my skin is thick. I dish it out, I'm more than prepared to accept it.

I would love some good quality medical publications (journals and studies) about insulin resistance vs weight loss and how it affects things. A quick google has turned up a lot of bro science.

You are right that Myfitnesspal massively overestimates caloric expenditure from exercise. It's insane. The food part is pretty good, but the thing is, weight loss is 90% food 10% exercise; running or swimming or whatever for hours and hours will only burn a few hundred calories at most - about a slice or three of pizza. Now, competitive versions of the same do a decent job of burning calories, but they're much harder. I remember five miles of timed sprints and distance swimming in cold water in a three-hour practice, and those will beat the shit out of you, but even then I suspect a good portion of the effect came from the cold water. (I also remember two hours of pre-hurricane waves and swells in 60-degree water and shivering uncontrollably until I ate a bunch of food.) Ain't nobody doing that on the regular who is using myfitnesspal, and if they are, they know the difference between that and a jolly swim -- and mfp does not.
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: Argyle on October 22, 2014, 09:13:36 PM
Just as an aside, I am very suspicious of this article.  The Daily Mail, where this originates, has the reputation of about as much reliability as the National Inquirer, and the quotes are just too good to be true.  All the stuff where she says things like "This would interfere with my pizza eating so I can't do it."  There's a real picture of somebody in the article, but whether she really phrased those things in that way — I'd need some more evidence.
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: Gin1984 on October 22, 2014, 09:20:01 PM
No worries, robby, my skin is thick. I dish it out, I'm more than prepared to accept it.

I would love some good quality medical publications (journals and studies) about insulin resistance vs weight loss and how it affects things. A quick google has turned up a lot of bro science.

You are right that Myfitnesspal massively overestimates caloric expenditure from exercise. It's insane. The food part is pretty good, but the thing is, weight loss is 90% food 10% exercise; running or swimming or whatever for hours and hours will only burn a few hundred calories at most - about a slice or three of pizza. Now, competitive versions of the same do a decent job of burning calories, but they're much harder. I remember five miles of timed sprints and distance swimming in cold water in a three-hour practice, and those will beat the shit out of you, but even then I suspect a good portion of the effect came from the cold water. (I also remember two hours of pre-hurricane waves and swells in 60-degree water and shivering uncontrollably until I ate a bunch of food.) Ain't nobody doing that on the regular who is using myfitnesspal, and if they are, they know the difference between that and a jolly swim -- and mfp does not.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15254486
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/76/5/911.full.pdf
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12145157

Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: NoraLenderbee on October 22, 2014, 11:15:23 PM
Poor people are the worst.  Why don't they just get jobs working in tech?  All they have to do is be reborn into functional supportive middle-class families who provide the computer equipment and training necessary for the job while simultaneously being reborn with the aptitude to be able to do the job.  That's not so hard, right?

Damn straight. They could get jobs if they wanted to. And fat people could be thin if they wanted to. And they SHOULD want to, because fatness is EVIL and worthy of nothing but HATRED and SCORN by all right-thinking people.
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: GuitarStv on October 23, 2014, 06:35:51 AM
When your weight changes it's usually due to your lifestyle.

As a younger person typically you are more active.  You don't have a car or money, so you tend to walk/bike everywhere.  Your friends are interested in playing sports, so you tend to play with them.  You are growing, which requires more food.  All of this translates into eating more.  Eating more becomes a habit.

At some point as you age you stop walking/biking everywhere.  Your friends become interested in watching rather than playing sports.  You stop growing.  The habit of eating more doesn't end.  Now you have money to spend on snacks.  You tend to sleep less, and have greater stresses in life (both of which contribute to overeating by reducing feelings of satiety).  These lifestyle changes are slow and usually unnoticed.

Changing a long ingrained pattern is and isn't easy.  It can be done pretty easily with a little willpower and by making continuous small conscious choices over a long period of time.  The people most successful at staying healthy typically follow this path.  They don't understand why so many have trouble with their weight.  The unsuccessful tend to try to change by making a few huge changes over a short period of time and then end up failing . . . and feeling shitty because they couldn't handle the near superhuman amount of effort it takes to implement a massive shift in behavior.  They usually follow a pattern of: HUGE change, minor progress, breaking point, fail, major relapse . . . and by the time they've hit the relapse their problem is worse than before.  For them the change is very hard, seemingly insurmountable.

Yes, it's as simple as eating less than you burn to lose weight.  But how you change your lifestyle directly affects how successful you'll be at meeting your goals.
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: rocksinmyhead on October 23, 2014, 06:53:47 AM
Just as an aside, I am very suspicious of this article.  The Daily Mail, where this originates, has the reputation of about as much reliability as the National Inquirer, and the quotes are just too good to be true.  All the stuff where she says things like "This would interfere with my pizza eating so I can't do it."  There's a real picture of somebody in the article, but whether she really phrased those things in that way — I'd need some more evidence.

I agree. the whole thing smells fake, and they picked things that people love to get pissed about/gloat about their own superiority -- poor people and fat people. what a waste of time.

I give up on this whole argument. no one is going to be convinced. and FTR, I'm a healthy-weight marathon runner so this isn't about me being defensive about my own fatness or something, I just happen to have some empathy and can accept that I'm not a medical professional who knows everything about everyone else's diet and exercise habits.
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: boarder42 on October 23, 2014, 07:15:04 AM
its not necessarliy calories in calories out. 

1. i dont work out at all
2. i probably eat 2k+ calories a day
3. i've lost 36 lbs since january

its about WHAT you eat.  if you eat 2k calories in bread you're probably gonna gain weight ... if you eat 2k calories in meat you'll probably lose weight. 

IF you cared about yourself you would lose weight IF you dont you wouldnt

and those saying its not as easy as saving money Bull Sh!t .... its easier.  the results are quicker .... saving money takes 10+ years to reach independence.  eating healthy can have you lose 50+ lbs a year.  so say you're 400 lbs... in 4 years you will be at 200 ... its not that hard
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: totoro on October 23, 2014, 07:22:18 AM
Just as an aside, I am very suspicious of this article.  The Daily Mail, where this originates, has the reputation of about as much reliability as the National Inquirer, and the quotes are just too good to be true.  All the stuff where she says things like "This would interfere with my pizza eating so I can't do it."  There's a real picture of somebody in the article, but whether she really phrased those things in that way — I'd need some more evidence.

I agree. the whole thing smells fake, and they picked things that people love to get pissed about/gloat about their own superiority -- poor people and fat people. what a waste of time.


It is a little bit disappointing that no-one here who doesn't believe the article or "needs more evidence" knows how to google.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXnIBvDkRNw
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: Caella on October 23, 2014, 07:22:44 AM
Damn straight. They could get jobs if they wanted to. And fat people could be thin if they wanted to. And they SHOULD want to, because fatness is EVIL and worthy of nothing but HATRED and SCORN by all right-thinking people.

Ok, I ALMOST went all out on you, but thankfully my sarcasm radar fixed itself and I went back to read all the topic before commenting =]


Back on topic, I agree with a lot of people here, and fatness/weight loss is a delicate topic.

Yeah, the MMM approach to finances could be used to eating. We can be more efficient, focus on the benefits and learn to love (ew) broccoli instead of pizza, just as we let go the SUV's in favor of bikes. And yes, I see some complainypants attitude in most people trying (or that says is trying) to lose weight. In it's root, it is a self control and willingness issue.


And yet, it is not nearly as simple and direct as X calories in = X calories out. Every body is created different, with different genetic markers, different "problems" and benefits. The cravings are different for each person, and how the body reacts to the cravings as well.
Sometimes it's just conscious choices, just like some people prefer to keep working and be able to get some extra luxuries than retiring early. Personally I would prefer to be fat than to not eat some foods. Each person has his/her own sets of values and their choices will not be the same as yours or mine, and that doesn't make them automatically wrong.

There is the whole lot of self steem too. Many times the "fattie" thinks so badly of himself that doesn't think it's worthy to make the sacrifice. Then he/she chooses the instant gratification instead of the delayed that the diet/exercise brings, because fuck it. Many times obesity is just a symptom/one more thing among a LOT of psychological issues, and it's so damn easy to judge from outside instead of trying to exercise some empathy.

For some people eating is a comforting thing just like smoking, yeah. Some triggers on metabolic responses that makes you feel good and everything. And it's a lot harder to fight eating addiction because:

comfort eating = comfort smoking. 

Exactly.

Former smokers know they can't smoke just one cigarette because that could set them right back into their addiction. Recovering alcoholics know they can't have even one drink on a special occasion because even if they haven't tasted alcohol in 20 years, that one drink could set them off.  Formerly obese people and recovering overeaters know better than to ever eat another meal because that could.....wait....oh.

In my personal opinion based on personal experiences, i agree with the theory that your body has a "stable" weight. When you are at it, it's harder to lose weight, and it's harder to gain weight. This 'stable' number can be changed as you age, have children, etc etc etc. I had lost something like 20 pounds once and it was damn hard to maintain, It took a LOT more exercise and feeling hungry all the time. Even after a year or two maintaining it, it wasn't good/easy. I had also gained some extra 10 pounds in another occasion, and I really knew that was overeating at the time. I left the tables feeling stuffed at every meal. Both times, once I went back to normal eating, my weight shifted to my "stable" weight without much effort.And I believe that the constant dieting/binge eating screws with the body metabolic system. It never knows when it's gonna have one or another, so it just stores fat to be safe.

All this guilt and finger pointing to perfectly good, healthy and functional human beings because you "have to" look like this or that is just ridiculous.
Curiously no one EVER commented that he/she is worried about my health when I stuff my face on an all you can eat pizza place or when i go to McDonald's. Yes, I could have super high blood pressure, diabetes or cholesterol, but no one cares. I'm thin, so it's ok. If a fat person eats the same stuff, a lot of judgmental eyes go on, because you know, health is important!

Yup, health.
(http://i.imgur.com/qGnnE.gif)
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: mm1970 on October 23, 2014, 07:26:38 AM
its not necessarliy calories in calories out. 

1. i dont work out at all
2. i probably eat 2k+ calories a day
3. i've lost 36 lbs since january

its about WHAT you eat.  if you eat 2k calories in bread you're probably gonna gain weight ... if you eat 2k calories in meat you'll probably lose weight. 

IF you cared about yourself you would lose weight IF you dont you wouldnt

and those saying its not as easy as saving money Bull Sh!t .... its easier.  the results are quicker .... saving money takes 10+ years to reach independence.  eating healthy can have you lose 50+ lbs a year.  so say you're 400 lbs... in 4 years you will be at 200 ... its not that hard
Saving money is easier for me because I make a lot of money.
I would guess that when you are in your 20's with low income/fast metabolism, it's easier to lose weight.
Maybe mid-40s not so much.

It's really not that simple for everyone.
Doesn't matter that I don't eat bread, only eat 1-3 servings of carbohydrates a day (includes fruit).  Lean protein, healthy fat, vegetables. Sometimes beans. Very occasionally rice.  Even less often pasta.

It's amazing when someone has success and they automatically extrapolate it to others.  It simply doesn't work that way.

But I remember when I first lost all my weight (pre kids, early 30's).  I would see people say "I can't lose weight it never works".  And I thought 2 things:
1. Complete and utter sympathy.  I'd been there, I'd thought that very thing.
2.  "You can do it!"  The fact of the matter is I did eventually lose weight, but it took quite a bit of time and required me to try many many things.

Someone who can simply "change what they eat" and lose weight probably isn't going to understand someone who has to eat the same types of foods that they do, only 40% less, to even get the scale to budge.
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: totoro on October 23, 2014, 07:30:23 AM
No worries, robby, my skin is thick. I dish it out, I'm more than prepared to accept it.

I would love some good quality medical publications (journals and studies) about insulin resistance vs weight loss and how it affects things. A quick google has turned up a lot of bro science.

FWIW you and those who attribute being overweight solely to being lazy are kind of being jerks.  Having an opinion is easy, how about you really put some time into research instead of a "quick google" if you are going to judge? 

I agree that addictions are difficult, but can be managed by most with assistance. As pointed out, unlike smoking or drinking, you cannot just quit eating which makes things a bit more difficult to manage. 

Research suggests that, as our bodies gain weight based on genetic predispositions, it is likely that our brains become less receptive to the “stop eating” hormones that our fat cells secrete (like leptin).

I am normal weight and have never had a problem with gaining weight.  My best friend is obese.  I've watched her struggle with weight for 30 years.  I'm pretty sure that it is not all explained by lack of will power and too many calories.

She is very strong and physically active.  She eats poorly sometimes.  She is on the waitlist for gastric bypass because no diet has ever worked for long for her - she, like 95% of all obese people, always gains the weight back, as does her brother.

Now 95% is a big number and my take is that genetics regulate body metabolism to a significant degree which makes it pretty tough to keep the weight off - your body is working against you in this and increases your appetite and decreases you ability to sense fullness. 

Also some people have more fat cells naturally.  And fat cells themselves multiply during two growth periods: early childhood and adolescence. Overeating during those times increases the number of fat cells.

Dr Leibel's, an obesity researcher, did studies of the formerly obese (who are keeping weight off) and he observed that they are hungry all the time, are cold and other symptoms of the biochemical system kicking in to force a weight gain. When they exercise, these individuals burn 15 to 20 percent fewer calories than a normally thin person.

http://www.drsharma.ca/obesitywhy-is-it-so-hard-to-maintain-a-reduced-body-weight.html

http://healthread.net/why-dieters-regain-leibel.htm

Source: Weight control and diet | University of Maryland Medical Center http://umm.edu/health/medical/reports/articles/weight-control-and-diet#ixzz33mPghnRr
University of Maryland Medical Center

http://centennial.rucares.org/index.php?page=Weight_Loss
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: mm1970 on October 23, 2014, 07:30:26 AM
Quote
In my personal opinion based on personal experiences, i agree with the theory that your body has a "stable" weight. When you are at it, it's harder to lose weight, and it's harder to gain weight. This 'stable' number can be changed as you age, have children, etc etc etc. I had lost something like 20 pounds once and it was damn hard to maintain, It took a LOT more exercise and feeling hungry all the time. Even after a year or two maintaining it, it wasn't good/easy. I had also gained some extra 10 pounds in another occasion, and I really knew that was overeating at the time. I left the tables feeling stuffed at every meal. Both times, once I went back to normal eating, my weight shifted to my "stable" weight without much effort.And I believe that the constant dieting/binge eating screws with the body metabolic system. It never knows when it's gonna have one or another, so it just stores fat to be safe.
This makes it very hard.

Most days, I'm hungry.  I eat 5 small meals a day.
On 1250 calorie days, I go to bed hungry. I wake up in the middle of the night hungry. I go to the gym in the morning and swim hungry, until about 25 laps in and it turns into a splitting headache.  Then I either suck it up and finish the last 5 laps or quit.

But hey, at least I'm losing 1/2 lb a week, right. Yay me.
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: madame librarian on October 23, 2014, 07:32:21 AM
I am very thin and always have been, no matter what crap I shove into my gullet. Now that I'm older and smarter, I do eat healthfully, but there was definitely a time (helloooo college) when I ate cake for breakfast. I also worked in a desk job where the majority of people gain 20-30 lbs within 2 years after starting and I didn't gain an ounce. This is why I don't really buy the "being fat is all about self control, don't be such a glutton" thing. I have been a super unhealthy eater and a sedentary lazypants, and nobody ever knew or cared because my body didn't get fat because I have the genes to be tiny. It's not right or fair. And it's not at all hard for me to believe that some people are the opposite. Your body shape doesn't define who you are as a person.
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: mm1970 on October 23, 2014, 07:41:32 AM
Quote
I count calories and eat about 1200-1500 a day.

I've heard that before.

Here's a website dedicated to willpower and choices. Here's you belly-aching about how things aren't your fault and you already do everything perfectly.

Oh, and that (suspect) article you linked? It argues that it's harder to gain weight than we think. So you have even less excuse. It does not argue the other way around. You may draw that connection but that's yet another assumption with no evidence. (Regardless, it's pretty suspect - the website itself, and the article. I'll believe it when I see scientific consensus, not one opinion tenuously linked to one paper, which isn't a study but is a two-page-long blurb and is hardly a valid source for... anything.)

"If we can't be perfect, why bother trying?"

We can be perfect. That's the beauty of it. I'm not a particularly handsome dude, but I have no fat on my belly. It makes life a lot easier. Miles-long mountainous hikes with gear and food and water are a leisurely weekend activity. Interestingly, I've also tried measuring how much food I eat, to encourage a friend; it turned out that without trying at all I hovered at 1400 a day while she (despite being shorter and smaller) consistently ate 3-500 more. That was her "normal" and she couldn't imagine how it was so much when I ate more volume and fewer calories. My simple strategy is to cook my own food, and use only simple ingredients, and very few of them. Food you get prepared - including bread, meat, and so on - manages to stick an absolutely massive amount of calories and other shit into a small package that really doesn't fill you up; a $1 cheeseburger is 400+ calories. ($1 also feeds me for an entire day.)

People weren't fat in the past, except for the wealthy. We have far more knowledge today about nutrition and a massive opportunity to turn knowledge into practice.

I'm no hypocrite. If I gain weight, I'll think back to how I think about fat people and I'll lose the damn weight. Hasn't happened so far.

BPA, what metabolic disorder specifically? What effect does it have? I know a guy with a thyroid disorder (a real one, unlike 99% of claimants) and he's, what, fifteen pounds overweight at most? Can't even tell. Because he works out and eats right. It's harder for him than other people but he does it. "Slow metabolism?" I've heard that one too; it's just as bullshit. A slow metabolism might account for a hundred, maybe two hundred calories at most compared to a fast one.

It's hilarious to see fat apologists on a website dedicated to willpower and living lean. What's next, "I only drive my SUV because it's so much more comfortable than a normal car?"
I never said I was perfect.  I simply pointed out that I know how to eat right and exercise, and I do it.  Weight loss is not new to me. I was a chubby kid, but not by today's standards, by the 80's standards (childhood and teen years are when most of your fat cells are made).

In my early 30's I was fat because I ate way too much.  When I finally found something that worked to lose weight, I realized I was taking in about 3000 calories a day as a 5'2" female.  Whoops.  57 lbs down later...I had it all figured out.

In my late 30's I struggled really hard to lose the last 20 lbs of baby weight.  Full time job, work stress, lack of sleep from nursing/ pumping/ teething baby.  The only way I was finally able to take off those lbs was to switch to part time work.  And even then, once I lost the weight, I couldn't maintain the same weight as pre-baby, it was 5 lbs more.  Well, that's okay, still in the healthy range for me.

Then I had a baby at 42.  I still ate right and exercised during pregnancy.  But I still gained 50 lbs.  A few reasons: 1. memory effect of pregnancy weight gain, an extra 10 lbs the first trimester. 2. stress from work (it was very bad), 3. lack of sleep - 2 hours of insomnia every night, 4. life stress -  my mother died in my first trimester.

Well you know, those things that worked the first two times aren't working now.  So I had to make adjustments - namely, cutting my calories and being hungry all. the. time.  Oh, it's coming off at 0 to 0.6 lbs per week, but it's awesome to be judged for my weight when you don't know what you are talking about.

And that link?  Read above, I did point out that you have to eat more to gain weight too.  Unless there are other things going on.

It's so great to read people make your insensitive comments. I HAVE willpower and I DO live lean.  I'm still FAT!

Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: mm1970 on October 23, 2014, 08:09:33 AM
Insulin resistance.  Ironically because carbs (which are cheap) were my primary food source when I first tried to save money which actually kind of relates to the thread title.  I only recently realized it was part of the problem.  It wasn't until after I dealt with the emotional eating aspect of the incest and the weight still wasn't coming off like it should, that after reading a lot, I put it all together.

I try to follow the Insulin Resistance Diet or other low carb diets, and the weight is coming off, but I'm 46 and it's pretty slow.

I wish I knew that I was Insulin Resistant earlier instead of getting frustrated with calories in/out.  I can only go on from here. 

It is more expensive following IRD than it was the CI/CO I was following before.

And hey.  If anyone is interested, myfitnesspal.com is a great place to log for free.  I like it because it tracks carbs, protein, and fat.  Just a warning though, the calories burned via exercise thing is inflated for most people.  Too bad because I cycle like mad and according to MFP, I should weigh about -160 pounds by now.  :)  Instead of 190 like I do.

This is very sad, because I spent 20 years eating like the "food pyramid" recommended - all those carbs, and it turns out that was probably part of the problem.

I love MFP.  I have to say, I wrote down a month ago that it said by 11/2 I will weigh 147.4, so I figured it was off.  But I'm actually pretty close.

I recently read a book by Luise Light called WHAT TO EAT.  She was in charge of coming up with the new dietary guidelines in the 1980s.  The lobbies for the various food industries did not like her team's recommendations, which were based on all the research for health and weight control.

When the food pyramid was released a few years later (after she left in frustration), it didn't resemble her recommendations. Her team recommended 1-2 servings per day of carbohydrate foods for women (up to 3 for men), and all whole grain.  Brown rice, beans, oats, etc.  (Fruit was not included as a carb.)  Far cry from 6-11.
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: boarder42 on October 23, 2014, 08:33:25 AM
i guess you guys are right saving money isnt the same ... its actually harder than losing weight b/c its tied to an income you make.  being fat is tied to how much/what you put in your mouth and to a lesser extent how active you are.  both things 100% under your control. 

make excuses all you want

but thats what they are EXCUSES
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: totoro on October 23, 2014, 08:45:40 AM
i guess you guys are right saving money isnt the same ... its actually harder than losing weight b/c its tied to an income you make.  being fat is tied to how much/what you put in your mouth and to a lesser extent how active you are.  both things 100% under your control. 

make excuses all you want

but thats what they are EXCUSES

Except for the medical research, never mind anecdotal, that demonstrates that this is not true and which was posted above. 

It is like me telling you that I have no patience for the statements you are making about saving money being "hard" - harder than losing weight.  Stop making excuses.  Your income is entirely under your control.
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: boarder42 on October 23, 2014, 08:58:33 AM
i save tons of money and income isnt 100% under a person's control if that was the case i'd make 500MM a year and own 27 yachts
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: boarder42 on October 23, 2014, 08:59:37 AM
i cant wake up tomorrow and decide to make 500MM dollars. and start making that money instantly. 

I can wake up tomorrow and decide to start losing weight and start losing it instantly.
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: Tai on October 23, 2014, 09:09:04 AM
I was a normal weight until I smashed my knee up around 40. A couple weeks in a hip to ankle splint and 6 months of it swollen and I gained weight. I have not been able to lose that weight. So now I'm borderline obese. I've also had surgery since and any kind of impact exercise is out. I do walk, for miles, and had a fairly active job. I am still thinner than any of my relatives were at the same age. I really don't eat very much, and eat pretty healthy, if I ate this way when I was younger guaranteed I'd have lost pounds. But I guess according to you young, healthy guys it's all willpower? Just wait until you're older and see, things change. I was jogging to work before injuring my knee, I guess you all would have been able to hop all the way on one leg. I try not to judge overweight people now, because I don't know why/how they got that way and throw in some physical ailments and it's a pita.
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: totoro on October 23, 2014, 09:12:16 AM
i cant wake up tomorrow and decide to make 500MM dollars. and start making that money instantly. 


Why can't you make double what you make?  What is stopping you from getting a second job, working smarter or investing more? 

As far as I'm concerned doubling your income is reasonable and is 100% under your control should you set this as a goal.  Much more so than weight is for those who have been overweight based on the medical evidence in those studies.
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: rocksinmyhead on October 23, 2014, 09:18:17 AM
i cant wake up tomorrow and decide to make 500MM dollars. and start making that money instantly. 


Why can't you make double what you make?  What is stopping you from getting a second job, working smarter or investing more? 

As far as I'm concerned doubling your income is reasonable and is 100% under your control should you set this as a goal.  Much more so than weight is for those who have been overweight based on the medical evidence in those studies.

+1

I'm pretty sure changing your income is easier than changing your genetics

I was jogging to work before injuring my knee, I guess you all would have been able to hop all the way on one leg. I try not to judge overweight people now, because I don't know why/how they got that way and throw in some physical ailments and it's a pita.

word.
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: Gone Fishing on October 23, 2014, 09:28:44 AM
As a culture we like to harp on weight because you can see it.  It is right there in front of you, just like gasoline prices and the stock market, almost impossible to ignore.  I can't promise anyone weight loss, but if you exercise 60 minutes a day, don't eat crap (candy, cookies, soda, fast food, most restaurant food in general, chips, and other processed foods), while sticking to fruits, veg, fresh meats, skin on potatoes, oatmeal, etc.  you WILL be healthier and probably have a little more cash in your pocket.  We need to stop using weight a barometer of health (or motivation) and start focusing purely on levels of excercise and quality of food intake. Oh wait, this isn't as easy as judging a fat person on sight, and takes away the genetic benefit that the "lucky" individuals have, guess we'll just have to go on judging...     
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: frugalnacho on October 23, 2014, 09:33:08 AM
I am fat.  I weigh about 230 and have a bit of a beer belly.  I have no thyroid or metabolism problems.  I like to smoke pot, drink liquor, eat pizza, and eat sweets, and when I do any of those activities I usually over do it.  I could be ripped and have a six pack, but I realize I would have to give up a lot of my bad habits and i'm not willing to do that. 

I know some people do have legitimate medical problems that prevent them from losing weight or maintaining a healthy body weight, but I think they are in the minority.  For the vast majority of people your lifestyle and food choices directly affect your weight/fatness.   Honestly when I hear anyone claim that it's so hard to lose weight, or that they have some medical condition that prevents them from maintaining a healthy body weight I equate it to people claiming they can't get by on their paycheck (despite me directly observing them making bad choices [either health wise or financially]).  If I don't know that person personally I automatically assume they are just a complainy pants that isn't taking responsibility for their own health (or finances).
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: NumberCruncher on October 23, 2014, 09:35:19 AM
As a culture we like to harp on weight because you can see it.  It is right there in front of you, just like gasoline prices and the stock market, almost impossible to ignore.  I can't promise anyone weight loss, but if you exercise 60 minutes a day, don't eat crap (candy, cookies, soda, fast food, most restaurant food in general, chips, and other processed foods), while sticking to fruits, veg, fresh meats, skin on potatoes, oatmeal, etc.  you WILL be healthier and probably have a little more cash in your pocket.  We need to stop using weight a barometer of health (or motivation) and start focusing purely on levels of excercise and quality of food intake. Oh wait, this isn't as easy as judging a fat person on sight, and takes away the genetic benefit that the "lucky" individuals have, guess we'll just have to go on judging...     

Yes!

Also, shaming fat people DOESN'T WORK:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2014/09/11/fat-shaming-doesnt-work-a-new-study-says/ (http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2014/09/11/fat-shaming-doesnt-work-a-new-study-says/)


Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: naloj on October 23, 2014, 09:46:20 AM
The metabolism of someone who went from 250lbs to 200lbs is not the same as someone who has always weighed 200lbs.  The body still thinks it's starving and will try to conserve the calories.  The dieting 200lb person will have to eat less than the person who has always weighed 200lbs.

Physics will always win out over metabolism/thyroid/whatever so you need to eat less, exercise more, or a combination.

If you feel like you're starving all the time then eat higher quantities of foods that are less calorie dense.

Exercise is a great cure for depression because it releases endocannabinoids which gets you naturally high.

There is always low impact cardio like swimming/bike riding no matter what your condition.

I don't know how anyone can say "I'm doing everything right but it's just not working!"  It's not working because you're not doing it right.  Your definition of right has been skewed by whatever prejudices/beliefs you have.  Keep researching and experimenting until you find a diet and exercise routine that is giving you the progress you want to make.
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: GuitarStv on October 23, 2014, 10:02:20 AM
The metabolism of someone who went from 250lbs to 200lbs is not the same as someone who has always weighed 200lbs.  The body still thinks it's starving and will try to conserve the calories.  The dieting 200lb person will have to eat less than the person who has always weighed 200lbs.

This is a concept that keeps coming up that I think many are misinterpreting.

This does not mean that someone who loses weight is hopelessly screwed for the rest of their life because they won't burn as many calories as someone who hadn't been fat.  If it were true then the greatest ultra-marathon runners in the world would all be ex obese people.  Why?  Because their bodies have been supercharged by the tremendous benefits outlined.  Greater efficiency for less caloric intake!  You can run further on less energy!  Something is not quite right in this assumption.

The science behind the link between fat gain and calories consumed is pretty conclusive.  Muscle burns more calories than fat, which might account for some of the claims of metabolic differences between a person who is 200lbs naturally and one who just lost 50lbs to become 200lbs.  Typically muscle is lost at as fast or a greater rate than fat . . . which would mean that the person who just lost weight likely has less muscle mass.  There are many ways to increase muscle mass.  They increase your metabolism.

*** This is also why it's stupid to only look at weight as a measure of fitness.  Muscle weighs a lot.  Focusing on reducing the number of lbs on the scale doesn't correlate to an increase in health.
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: Tai on October 23, 2014, 10:17:17 AM
Why should I lose weight because other people don't like how my body looks? I'm healthy and active, and I'm ok with having a middle-age spread along with the wrinkles and other changes. I only have so much time/energy/ability to focus and for me things like working towards increasing my income, financial resources and education are more of a priority. I don't drink or smoke anything, but I don't go around shaming those who do. Could I lose weight? Sure, but it would be really difficult and I don't think it's worth it. I'm on a FIRE board not a I want to look like I'm pre-adolescent board.
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: crazyworld on October 23, 2014, 10:43:10 AM
I highly doubt I can change anyone's mind, but here goes:

1. "comfort eating = comfort smoking": except that one does not have to smoke, but one does have to eat. I can live in a bubble and not come across any fattening item ever so that I never have to exercise my scant will power and walk away from it.  But then, I can get fat on beans and rice. Easy. When I say comfort food, I do not mean twinkies personally (hate the smell of them actually) And I do not want my thin husband eating those either. But not because he would get fat. Because I am a big believer in whole, unprocessed foods and against "chemical" food.

2. "I don't want to pay more insurance for your bad food choices": my health is perfect. with a cap P, Perfect. No diabetes (not even borderline), no BP, no cholesterol, no nothing. In fact I barely see a doctor. Less than once a year. You can go ahead and thank me now for keeping your premiums low.  My thin husband OTOH, has high cholesterol and higher sugar than I do.

Anything else I can clarify for the self-righteous?
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: Miamoo on October 23, 2014, 10:48:11 AM
I guess I'm lucky.  ????  No medical excuses.

Obesity runs on the maternal side of the family.  I have never been obese and never will be.  I have given too many people permission to shoot me if I ever get fat.

I don't weigh myself regularly.  Instead, if my clothes feel like they're not fitting right (tight), that's when I cut back on . .. whatever . . . until the clothes are comfortable again.

After babies I will never forget my 5'2" 300# mother telling me how "dumpy" I looked with the baby pooch after each one.  (Sit ups by the thousands)

Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: Gin1984 on October 23, 2014, 10:51:38 AM
The metabolism of someone who went from 250lbs to 200lbs is not the same as someone who has always weighed 200lbs.  The body still thinks it's starving and will try to conserve the calories.  The dieting 200lb person will have to eat less than the person who has always weighed 200lbs.

Physics will always win out over metabolism/thyroid/whatever so you need to eat less, exercise more, or a combination.

If you feel like you're starving all the time then eat higher quantities of foods that are less calorie dense.

Exercise is a great cure for depression because it releases endocannabinoids which gets you naturally high.

There is always low impact cardio like swimming/bike riding no matter what your condition.

I don't know how anyone can say "I'm doing everything right but it's just not working!"  It's not working because you're not doing it right.  Your definition of right has been skewed by whatever prejudices/beliefs you have.  Keep researching and experimenting until you find a diet and exercise routine that is giving you the progress you want to make.
My mom was active, though not as much as she "should", ate right etc but could not lose weight and no, she was so exhausted that we would just come home a lay down.  Was she just lazy?  No, she had damage to her thyroid.  Once she had the surgery and was put on meds her energy jumped.  She now works out seven days a week, still eats well and pounds flew off.  And she had been overweight for her entire life even in her twenties where she walked everywhere and worked out every day. The doctors think she had had damage to her thyroid from childhood and it just got worse and worse.  Many times people need support, medical or otherwise to change their weight.  Instead of pulling them down, why don't we help?
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: GuitarStv on October 23, 2014, 10:55:53 AM
Why should I lose weight because other people don't like how my body looks? I'm healthy and active, and I'm ok with having a middle-age spread along with the wrinkles and other changes. I only have so much time/energy/ability to focus and for me things like working towards increasing my income, financial resources and education are more of a priority. I don't drink or smoke anything, but I don't go around shaming those who do. Could I lose weight? Sure, but it would be really difficult and I don't think it's worth it. I'm on a FIRE board not a I want to look like I'm pre-adolescent board.

Carrying extra weight along with an active lifestyle isn't significantly worse for you than being ideal weight and having an active lifestyle.
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: Philociraptor on October 23, 2014, 11:20:26 AM
Another anecdote here:

I was a healthy weight until I gained 30 lbs during my 3rd-4th grade summer (thanks grandma!). After that I struggled with weight (and the bullies that add to that struggle) all the way through high school and most of college (topped out around 220 lbs). Discovered Paleo, dropped 30 lbs in 1 semester, got busy, stopped eating well, gained most of it back the following semester. Started working my first real job in September of 2011, been dropping weight and gaining muscle ever since. Only diet that seems to work for me is Paleo, I've tried running, lifting, Insanity, and currently doing Crossfit. I'm still stuck around 165, even when I count calories (1600/day plus exercise at 25 years old, 5'7" tall). Having been fat most of my life, it's not easy losing weight, and it's especially disheartening seeing the scale start to creep back up.

My point is, I'm educated and read a ton on nutrition and fitness, and it's still hard. Information is a small part of the battle, creating good habits is the bulk of it. Each year my habits improve, and I see incremental progress along with them. It takes time though, and everybody is in a different place in their fitness journey. I didn't have anybody calling me lazy or stupid when I first started losing weight, and it certainly wouldn't have helped keep me on the right path.
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: Kaspian on October 23, 2014, 11:22:27 AM
I'm considered thin... Though I'm at least 10-15 lbs over any ideal body weight chart online.  (Shows how low we've set the bar for thin, I guess?)

When people say, "You're lucky--you're really tall and your fast metabolism and blah, blah, blah.."  They get a big "Fuck you!," back.  I noticed my metabolism changing at 20, then at 30, then (almost exactly) at 40.  Each of those decades required more vegetables and fruits and less fat and carbs to keep a decent frame.  If I actually bought cookies and pizza, I'd eat them every day of the week.  Hell yes--I want cookies!!  I want them all now--in my belly!!  All the time!  And spaghetti.  Fuck, I love a hearty meaty red sauce spaghetti.  And chicken fingers with BBQ sauce.  Damn, that stuff is good!  I so wish I could eat like I did when I was 18.

But I don't.  Sadly, I buy lentils, rice, cucumber, lettuce, apples, very small pieces of meat, and bananas.  When I do get pizza, spaghetti, cookies, or cake on a special occasion it makes them all the more wonderfully delicious.  :)   It's weird, I almost faint when I have cake now because my body isn't used that level of sugar.
Beer?  You'll never take that one away.  From my cold, dead hands.

Ironically (predictably) the people who say I'm "lucky" for being thin also like to make fun of me for walking everywhere, carrying my groceries in a backpack, and not owning a car.  ...But they pay for gym memberships.  (Dumbasses.)
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: gimp on October 23, 2014, 12:02:40 PM
If you actually eat 1250 calories a day without losing weight, I recommend applying for some studies - maybe medical, but more likely physics. "Woman eats fewer calories than her body expends on a daily basis but loses no weight." That would really be something, you know? You'd be famous. You'd also be the first.

There are many things that may influence you to eat more but literally the only way you gain energy is by eating, so every single bit of fat you have comes from eating. You don't get energy from the sunlight, or from the earth. You eat. If you eat too much, you grow sideways. You may have reasons for eating too much, which may even approach decent, but the single cause of being fat is your body getting more energy than it expends, on a consistent basis, which it converts by various means and with various supplies into fat. How much energy your body expends changes over time, sure, but so should your diet to accommodate that.
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: golden1 on October 23, 2014, 12:10:17 PM
This thread needs a dose of empathy and critical thinking.

1) The science isn't completely in on weight loss - there is no consensus.  There are lots of good studies that contradict each other because weight loss is an incredibly difficult thing to study.  It is very hard to hold factors in isolation, so studies might appear to be saying one thing, but actually do not prove out at all.  There are also lots of new theories about gut biomes, hormones and other vectors in body weight that are just starting to be studied.  Generally, there is a basic energy balance that works for a lot of people, but there are even factors that complicate that. 

2) Shaming people about their health and weight doesn't work, and trust me, the stuff you are saying about people who are overweight - they are saying even worse things to themselves.  SHAMING yourself about your weight and health doesn't work either.  That shit leads to binge eating, anorexia, orthorexia and other eating disorders.   

3) My personal experience with weight loss/healthy living is that super low carb makes me feel like crap - no energy at all, avoiding refined sugar makes me feel awesome, a higher protein diet with some whole grains and a lot of plant foods makes me feel the best.  Exercise is a keystone habit for me - if I am exercising, I don't feel depressed, I eat better, I sleep better.   

4)  I think that the one diet truism that holds over every different weight loss book, study etc... eat more fruits and veggies.  If people ate the 5-7 servings of fruits and veggies they are supposed to before eating other stuff, a lot of people would lose weight. 

5) The best thing that a person can do is to concentrate on how exercise and a proper diet actually makes them feel in the moment.  Being mindful of how you feel 15 minutes after you eat that donut helps make the positive connection to healthy foods that keeps you reaching for them over other stuff.  Also, being mindful of when you are actually full keeps you from overeating. 
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: golden1 on October 23, 2014, 12:14:25 PM
Quote
https://gokaleo.com/about-me/

Kaleo is one of my favorite fitness people.  She brings a lot of sanity to the nonsense that is out there.  She weighs 170, and eats 3000 calories a day and she looks awesome.  It really isn't just about weight.   
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: golden1 on October 23, 2014, 12:17:40 PM
I do agree that MFP is really inaccurate when it comes to exercise calories.  I was maintaining weight on a 1400 calorie a day diet plus exercise when I was supposed to be losing 0.5-1lb a week.  I had to stop counting exercise in order to begin losing. 

Using a food scale really helps too.  A serving of pasta is 2 oz and when I started weighing my portions, I realized that I was eating 5-6 oz per plate - yikes!

Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: GuitarStv on October 23, 2014, 12:20:49 PM
Being mindful of how you feel 15 minutes after you eat that donut helps make the positive connection to healthy foods that keeps you reaching for them over other stuff.

I feel stunningly good 15 minutes after eating a donut.  That's why they're so tempting.  :P
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: golden1 on October 23, 2014, 01:26:33 PM
Really?  I feel great as I am eating the donut, but then feel like taking a nap 20 minutes later.  Maybe it is an age thing, or maybe I am just weird. 
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: YK-Phil on October 23, 2014, 01:47:49 PM
We have no idea what other people go through, or went through, in their lives. I do not condone unhealthy choices, but I can understand why some people repeatedly make bad decisions instead of good ones. Anectodal evidence from one of us who was able to overcome certain events or socio-economic conditions are exactly what they are, anecdotal. If you were able to overcome something, it does not mean someone else has the means, willpower, mental/psychological conditions to do it. In fact, having overcome something difficult should give you more empathy towards others in the same situation. Do not judge a man until you have walked a mile in his shoes may sound a bit simplistic, but I try to live by it whenever I am tempted to make a quick judgement on a person's choices or lifestyle.
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: Miamoo on October 23, 2014, 01:59:03 PM
Really?  I feel great as I am eating the donut, but then feel like taking a nap 20 minutes later.  Maybe it is an age thing, or maybe I am just weird.

You get a sugar maybe carb rush at first and then crash.  I'm the same way.  I don't think we're weird just not wired to eat crap.  Even tho it's tempting and satisfying for a moment.  Just a moment.

Tis the season for apple cider donuts.  Mmmmmmmmm.  Must eat one and then crash and have a headache.  Not wired for crap food.
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: happyfeet on October 23, 2014, 02:04:50 PM
I am fat.  I weigh about 230 and have a bit of a beer belly.  I have no thyroid or metabolism problems.  I like to smoke pot, drink liquor, eat pizza, and eat sweets, and when I do any of those activities I usually over do it.  I could be ripped and have a six pack, but I realize I would have to give up a lot of my bad habits and i'm not willing to do that. 

I know some people do have legitimate medical problems that prevent them from losing weight or maintaining a healthy body weight, but I think they are in the minority.  For the vast majority of people your lifestyle and food choices directly affect your weight/fatness.   Honestly when I hear anyone claim that it's so hard to lose weight, or that they have some medical condition that prevents them from maintaining a healthy body weight I equate it to people claiming they can't get by on their paycheck (despite me directly observing them making bad choices [either health wise or financially]).  If I don't know that person personally I automatically assume they are just a complainy pants that isn't taking responsibility for their own health (or finances).

What he said.  There are just so many overweight people - adults and children these days.  And why there are some circumstances where people struggle with losing weight in many instances too much food goes in the pie hole.  Watched a very overweight lady and her spouse down two large tubs of buttered popcorn each and several large sodas(probably not diet).  That was at a hockey game.  Oh and some hotdogs.

Then observed a bridal party( all overweight young gals) eat an enormous amount of food and drink alcohol at at bar in Nashville.

Would I like to eat like that?  Yea.  Would I become fat?  Yea.  All choices.

The health problems brought on by obesity now and in the future  - wow.  Lots of overweight folks out there.
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: gimp on October 23, 2014, 02:15:56 PM
You are right that Myfitnesspal massively overestimates caloric expenditure from exercise. It's insane. The food part is pretty good, but the thing is, weight loss is 90% food 10% exercise; running or swimming or whatever for hours and hours will only burn a few hundred calories at most - about a slice or three of pizza.

You know, I was starting to get the idea something must be really wrong when I compared the estimated calories burned from Google Tracks versus Garmin Fit.  I can fire up my phone's GPS, go for a bike ride and it shows the exact same GPS track in each app.  Tracks will show my bike ride burned, say, 432 calories for 75 minutes.  Meanwhile Fit says I burned 1400 calories.  That is a HUGE gap for two of the most common things you can install on a phone, each from huge companies (Google & Garmin).  I'm not even going to speculate as to how or why they are so far apart from each other, but it certainly doesn't help clear up any debate about how many calories exercise burns.

Absolutely. I don't know how they come up with those figures. I would assume that unless you're sweating buckets and ache like you lost a fight, you're not burning enough calories from exercise to count against your daily total. A couple hundred kcal at most will just mean you lose fat and build muscle faster, not that you can make up for it by eating more.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bs40BtGpuCA

Here's a strongman who estimates some 20k kcal (realistically: probably 15k, and probably only for relatively short periods of time.) Four hundred pounds, mostly muscle. He talks about how it's hard to get into the habit, but once you do, you're in - the habit of eating clean food and nothing else. After a while, it starts to taste good and shit starts to taste like shit.

At that weight, it takes something like 6000 kcal just to maintain. Yeah, if you're overweight, you will lose weight eating what a normal person eats, because you need more food just to maintain your bulk -- of course this is doubly true for muscle mass, but it's quite true for fat as well.

Quote
What he said.  There are just so many overweight people - adults and children these days.  And why there are some circumstances where people struggle with losing weight in many instances too much food goes in the pie hole.  Watched a very overweight lady and her spouse down two large tubs of buttered popcorn each and several large sodas(probably not diet).  That was at a hockey game.  Oh and some hotdogs.

Then observed a bridal party( all overweight young gals) eat an enormous amount of food and alcohol at at bar in Nashville.

Would I like to eat like that?  Yea.  Would I become fat?  Yea.  All choices.

The health problems brought on by obesity now and in the future  - wow.  Lots of overweight folks out there.

Exactly. Everyone's got an excuse. "I eat because I'm sad." Yeah. "I drive a quarter mile in my SUV because my knees hurt." Yeah. Everyone's got an excuse and this thread is full of excuses. Learn to love good food and cut out soda, candy, garbage, and you'll be fine.
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: mm1970 on October 23, 2014, 02:31:38 PM
i guess you guys are right saving money isnt the same ... its actually harder than losing weight b/c its tied to an income you make.  being fat is tied to how much/what you put in your mouth and to a lesser extent how active you are.  both things 100% under your control. 

make excuses all you want

but thats what they are EXCUSES

It's actually not when you think about it.
You can simply work more hours and make more income right?
You can simply eat less and lose weight, right?

Except not everyone can work more hours.
And not everyone can lose weight by eating less.
It's not that simple.
Even for a single person, it changes as you age.  So why is it so hard to believe that different people are...well...different?


You simply don't want to accept it because you personally haven't experienced it.  I see similar attitudes all the time in high tech "not invented here".  So if I didn't do it myself, it doesn't exist.

I have a very good friend who has always been trim. She gained 10 lbs when she was pregnant (in her 20's), and had an 8.5 lb baby.
I met her when she was in her late 50's.
Into her 60's she was still walking a ton (does the 3-day breast cancer walk every year - it's how I met her, I've done it 3x).  She was also playing tennis and tap dancing.
In her mid 60's, her knees wouldn't let her tap dance or play tennis anymore.

She still walks every day.  She exercises about 2 hours a day with walking and weight training classes at the gym.
Last time I saw her she was complimenting me on my weight loss and complaining about how she's gained 5 lbs and can't take it off.
She only eats about 1250 calories a day, all whole foods, very few carbs.
Her doctor said simply "you're 70".
Yep, it happens to different people at different ages.  She held it off a long time.  I told her that look at it this way - the extra weight will help her weather an illness better.  And: it's only 5 lbs.  Just a little bit around the middle, you can hardly tell (but she can tell).
What worked for me at 24, at 32, at 37, just not the same at 44.

That doesn't mean I stop trying.
It just means when jerks like you look around and see a fat person, you aren't seeing the real person.
I'd like to say "I can't wait till it hits you".  But that's mean.  I don't wish extra weight on anyone.  It hurts your knees and your back and your ankles.  It's not fun at all.
I don't wish insulin resistance on anyone either.  I've started to notice that if I miss a (250 calorie) meal, I get dizzy.
It's not fun either to be 2 miles from home, pushing a stroller uphill, and having to take breaks because your blood sugar is too low.
I don't wish that on anyone either.
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: mm1970 on October 23, 2014, 02:37:08 PM
i cant wake up tomorrow and decide to make 500MM dollars. and start making that money instantly. 


Why can't you make double what you make?  What is stopping you from getting a second job, working smarter or investing more? 

As far as I'm concerned doubling your income is reasonable and is 100% under your control should you set this as a goal.  Much more so than weight is for those who have been overweight based on the medical evidence in those studies.

+1

I'm pretty sure changing your income is easier than changing your genetics

I was jogging to work before injuring my knee, I guess you all would have been able to hop all the way on one leg. I try not to judge overweight people now, because I don't know why/how they got that way and throw in some physical ailments and it's a pita.

word.
Man, 40 is brutal!  It's like a switch flipped at 39.5, when I was running half marathons.  Piriformis, a sprained knee, achilles tendonitis.  One of my coworkers and I, when we were in our 30's, used to make fun of our older coworkers who complained about their joints and aches and pains after 40.  We thought they were whining!

It's not funny anymore.  I mean, I tried spinning again for the first time since my knee sprain in January and my knee ached for days.  Back to the pool I guess.  I used to think that I could make up for it in time - you know, so I could run 3 miles in 30 minutes, I'll just walk it in 60.  Except I don't have 60 minutes.

So instead, there is this HIIT stuff that you really get your metabolism going in shorter time.  Except most of it is high impact, and my joints cannot take it. I've tried to do it on the bike, but it makes my knee ache.  I've tried to do sprints in the pool, but I simply can't get a fast turnover on my stroke without my shoulders hurting.  It's a joint thing - my joints simply cannot take the intensity and/or time required to get the "burn" that I did when I was younger.
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: mm1970 on October 23, 2014, 02:52:23 PM
If you actually eat 1250 calories a day without losing weight, I recommend applying for some studies - maybe medical, but more likely physics. "Woman eats fewer calories than her body expends on a daily basis but loses no weight." That would really be something, you know? You'd be famous. You'd also be the first.

There are many things that may influence you to eat more but literally the only way you gain energy is by eating, so every single bit of fat you have comes from eating. You don't get energy from the sunlight, or from the earth. You eat. If you eat too much, you grow sideways. You may have reasons for eating too much, which may even approach decent, but the single cause of being fat is your body getting more energy than it expends, on a consistent basis, which it converts by various means and with various supplies into fat. How much energy your body expends changes over time, sure, but so should your diet to accommodate that.
I never said that it wasn't working.

I've lost 20 pounds this year.
That's approximately 1/2 lb a week, though it started slightly faster and is now slightly slower.
But I think what people on this thread are missing is empathy.
If you aren't doing it, and you don't know the huge amount of effort it takes, it's hard to understand.
Constant vigilance.  CONSTANT.  For 10 months.  Weighing and measuring. 
Regular exercise.
Hours, literally hours, every weekend prepping vegetables.  Pounds and pounds of vegetables.  I easily eat 4-6 cups of vegetables a day, and did I mention that I cook for the entire family?
What worked 5 years ago isn't working anymore.  Fewer calories, and serious cut back in carbohydrates.  5 years ago, I could eat mostly vegetarian - beans and rice, etc., and still lose weight.  Cannot do that anymore.

You know when you go to a party with your friends?  I'm the one who had chicken and vegetables at home, and I'm in the corner sipping some bubble water.
You know when you go out for a mom's night to the wine bar?  I'm the one who is drinking a single glass of wine, but I had to swap it for something else (and it's my one glass for the week).
You know when you meet friends for lunch that one day a month?  I ate my salad at my desk, and I'm just drinking water and chatting.
You know when someone brings donuts to work?  I turn my head and go back to my desk and eat my apple and almonds.
That potluck?  I pass on the cookies, or cake, or brownies, or pie.
I get one day off a week - well it's really one meal off a week. And by "off", I mean, I can eat anything, as long as I don't go over about 600 calories for the meal.

For 10 months. 
And I'm still fat.
And the times when it slowed down was due to stress and sleep.  When I am stressed (layoffs, traveling husband), I don't sleep.  When I don't sleep, I don't wake up early to work out, because I need sleep.  When I'm not suffering from insomnia, I can get by on 7 hours and wake up at 4:50 am to work out before the kids wake up.  When I have 2 hours of insomnia, I cannot wake up, so I miss my workout.  But it's a combo of the lack of calorie burn AND the stress that slow down the weight loss.

I can only imagine that it's going to take more than 10 months to lose the last 20 pounds.  Because it slows down as you get closer to goal.  9 months on, many years off I guess.

For one day, I'd like to eat like a teenage boy.  I'd like to eat a burrito.  (Funny story, you can tell when a man turns 30 - in my office, the under -30's eat the whole burrito.  The over 30's save half for tomorrow.  And the women?  We don't eat burritos.)
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: NoraLenderbee on October 23, 2014, 02:55:40 PM
So let's say a given person is fat because they overeat, eat junk, and don't exercise. Why is that so terrible that that person deserves to be called names? Why do we treat it like a major moral failing? They're fat--so what? They're the ones who suffer the ill effects of their own choices. No thin person is harmed because their next-door neighbor likes to pig out on greaseburgers. I'm disgusted by the fact that it's perfectly OK in our culture to hate and demean fat people.

Hey, you know what, I think gray hair is ugly. Let's bash gray-haired people. All they have to do is dye it--if they don't, they're lazy slobs and DISGUSTING. Those of us with the genes for keeping our natural color are far superior to those old grayheads. If your genes make you gray early, it is your responsibility to society to DYE IT so you don't offend other people.

 . . .

(for the record, I'm normal weight, physically active, and have totally brown hair at age 51)
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: crazyworld on October 23, 2014, 03:11:26 PM

Exactly. Everyone's got an excuse. "I eat because I'm sad." Yeah. "I drive a quarter mile in my SUV because my knees hurt." Yeah. Everyone's got an excuse and this thread is full of excuses. Learn to love good food and cut out soda, candy, garbage, and you'll be fine.
[/quote]

What if I don't drink soda, not even diet (never have), rarely eat candy (prob. ate some as a kid, don't care for it much - too sugary tasting), garbage (what exactly?). What is your recommendation for me for magical weight loss? No really, I would love to know.  I already exercise several times a week (yoga, zumba, strength, walking; recently started running).  I love vegetables, fruit, salad, lentils, beans, eggs, nuts.  Weakness for baked goods - don't keep those at home. I eat dark chocolate to keep the cravings at bay.  Drink a lot of water, don;t like beer, wine maybe a glass every few months. 
Now, I am not obese - keeping up my healthy habits keeps at about a size 12-14.  If I am militant about it and life is going smooth, I can even be size 8-10.  That is about as low as I have managed. I still look fat, at 5'1".  Other people who are larger, may not have the time and/or knowledge to put in the work required to do all this all the time.  That is not an excuse.  Time is finite.  I bet I could really get into great shape if I was not working and had all day to exercise and prep healthy meals.  How realistic is this for everyone?  I live with a naturally thin person, who eats as I do and never exercises.  I know his body is different.   
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: gimp on October 23, 2014, 03:17:02 PM
Quote
No thin person is harmed because their next-door neighbor likes to pig out on greaseburgers.

Would you like to hear the stories of all the medical personnel who hurt themselves, permanently, trying to move mounds of flesh? Who got stepped on? Or would you just like to hear about how insanely expensive it is for the rest of us as a society to support them. I can quote you some hilariously infuriating stories.

I mean, to be fair, it's what - 30% obese and 30% overweight? I guess it's mostly just the rest of us normals supporting the overweight majority. I'd much rather pay for food for poor people, than for medical procedures for the obese.

Quote
What is your recommendation for me for magical weight loss? No really, I would love to know.

Keep a food diary of absolutely every thing you put into your gullet. Weigh it if you have to so you don't underestimate, I don't care. Everyone talking about trying to lose weight underestimates. Post it after a month.

Quote
I already exercise several times a week (yoga, zumba, strength, walking; recently started running).

As I said before: exercise makes you look better and feel better but unless you're coming home feeling like a truck ran you over, you're not losing nearly as many calories as you think. Zumba, yoga, walking... not interesting. Running - for how long, how fast, up what kind of hills? Strength - how much are you lifting? Do all of those things but do them harder, faster, and more often. Build up to lifting more and more, running faster and farther. Once you actually start shedding a noticeable amount of energy through exercise, not the light version, you'll see fat gone and muscle appear. Until then, what you're doing is good but it's just baby steps and you need to know that so you don't think it's the end but know it's just the beginning.
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: Eric on October 23, 2014, 03:54:32 PM
Quote
What is your recommendation for me for magical weight loss? No really, I would love to know.

Keep a food diary of absolutely every thing you put into your gullet. Weigh it if you have to so you don't underestimate, I don't care. Everyone talking about trying to lose weight underestimates. Post it after a month.

Quote
I already exercise several times a week (yoga, zumba, strength, walking; recently started running).

As I said before: exercise makes you look better and feel better but unless you're coming home feeling like a truck ran you over, you're not losing nearly as many calories as you think. Zumba, yoga, walking... not interesting. Running - for how long, how fast, up what kind of hills? Strength - how much are you lifting? Do all of those things but do them harder, faster, and more often. Build up to lifting more and more, running faster and farther. Once you actually start shedding a noticeable amount of energy through exercise, not the light version, you'll see fat gone and muscle appear. Until then, what you're doing is good but it's just baby steps and you need to know that so you don't think it's the end but know it's just the beginning.

Your scenarios have all been great.  Really.  I mean, you're completely ignoring the fact that lots of people can get little exercise, eat poorly, drink copious amounts of alcohol, and still not have anywhere near the weight struggles that others who exercise, eat well, and actually pay attention do.  But hey, if it doesn't fit into your cute little box that you've drawn, then it must be ignored, right?  It's obviously the fault of the individual who is actually weighing and counting their food to do that a little more accurately than it would be to just accept that people are different.  Obviously.
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: gimp on October 23, 2014, 04:12:45 PM
Unless you're Einstein, nothing you're doing is changing what we know about physics. Eat less, weigh less. Nobody's that different.

Enjoy your excuses, folks. I'm out.
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: Abe on October 23, 2014, 06:10:51 PM
I think people need to focus less on weight. That in itself is not an important indicator of health (unless one is 'morbidly' obese). If you are "overweight" and exercising well such that you can do cardiac exercise for 30 minutes straight several times a week, your risk for heart disease and diabetes is improved regardless of what your weight does. The amount of subcutaneous fat tissue (what we regard as being "fat") is not correlated with cardiac disease. However, it does correlate with having elevated cholesterol and central fat, which is associated with the "metabolic syndrome" that leads to diabetes and associated cardiovascular inflammation. Thus, one can be 'overweight' but still have a healthy cardiovascular system. Conversely, one can be overweight and have a very sick cardiovascular system. The important part is your heart's exercise performance as a marker of overall risk for cardiovascular disease, which is the biggest cause of chronic poor health in our society. The illnesses associated with morbid obesity are more related to the inability to exercise or the food choices that do lead to the metabolic syndrome.

In summary - just exercise, build up to at least 30 minutes 3-4 times a week and you should be fine. Whether your figure improves or not is variable.

Since we're all providing personal anecdotes - I was overweight most of my teenage years into my 20s mostly because I was lazy and didn't like exercising. I lost about 30 pounds from work-related stress (surgery resident), gained about half back (2nd year - ICU! yay lunch!) and then exercised off another 40 pounds over 2 years while eating better. This is working 80-90 hours per week. I still find exercising the least interesting thing I do all day, but see it as a price I have to pay for better health later. Good luck to everyone struggling, and let us give thanks that we don't all work in the fields and die at 40 from dysentery!
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: skyrefuge on October 23, 2014, 09:53:17 PM
So let's say a given person is fat because they overeat, eat junk, and don't exercise. Why is that so terrible that that person deserves to be called names? Why do we treat it like a major moral failing? They're fat--so what?

Because this is the blog of Mr. Money-fucking Mustache, a man who gleefully calls people names, and preaches a philosophy in which physical fitness, diet, self-control, self-induced suffering, and intolerance for excuses are major components.

Yes, if you were somewhere else, a more touchy-feely approach might be warranted. But here? If you disagree with face-punches, you're probably at the wrong forum.

I'd like to say "I can't wait till it hits you".

I think the takeaway from this thread, particularly for younger readers, should be: don't let yourself get fat! Just like "don't let yourself fall into debt!" While it's certainly possible to dig yourself out of both holes, it's a hell of a lot harder to reach early-retirement/ideal-weight than if you had started from level ground. As you point out, we all have to fight to adjust our lifelong habits in order reduce our calorie intake as we age, just to maintain a constant weight. If we actually have to burn off a whole pile of fat on top of that, that's a whole additional level of difficulty. Especially since as we're burning off that fat, we're burning fewer calories because we aren't lugging it around anymore! Those three separate headwinds can be reduced to one if you can stay on top of your weight before it starts increasing.
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: golden1 on October 24, 2014, 06:53:13 AM
Quote
Because this is the blog of Mr. Money-fucking Mustache, a man who gleefully calls people names, and preaches a philosophy in which physical fitness, diet, self-control, self-induced suffering, and intolerance for excuses are major components.

If this is all you get out of MMM, then I think that you are missing out on a lot - I see him as preaching a positive philosophy of gratitude of what one actually has, and putting things in their proper perspective.  The "facepunch" thing I see as a tongue and cheek expression for giving someone a reality check but not in a personally abusive manner.  MMM never says, "You are a real piece of shit for spending too much money."

Quote
I've lost 20 pounds this year.
That's approximately 1/2 lb a week, though it started slightly faster and is now slightly slower.
But I think what people on this thread are missing is empathy.
If you aren't doing it, and you don't know the huge amount of effort it takes, it's hard to understand.
Constant vigilance.  CONSTANT.  For 10 months.  Weighing and measuring. 
Regular exercise.
Hours, literally hours, every weekend prepping vegetables.  Pounds and pounds of vegetables.  I easily eat 4-6 cups of vegetables a day, and did I mention that I cook for the entire family?
What worked 5 years ago isn't working anymore.  Fewer calories, and serious cut back in carbohydrates.  5 years ago, I could eat mostly vegetarian - beans and rice, etc., and still lose weight.  Cannot do that anymore.

You know when you go to a party with your friends?  I'm the one who had chicken and vegetables at home, and I'm in the corner sipping some bubble water.
You know when you go out for a mom's night to the wine bar?  I'm the one who is drinking a single glass of wine, but I had to swap it for something else (and it's my one glass for the week).
You know when you meet friends for lunch that one day a month?  I ate my salad at my desk, and I'm just drinking water and chatting.
You know when someone brings donuts to work?  I turn my head and go back to my desk and eat my apple and almonds.
That potluck?  I pass on the cookies, or cake, or brownies, or pie.
I get one day off a week - well it's really one meal off a week. And by "off", I mean, I can eat anything, as long as I don't go over about 600 calories for the meal.

I can read the sadness and discouragement in your post, and I can relate to an extent.  Something really does happen when you hit 40.  You start losing muscle mass and your metabolism begins to slow.  Aches and pains make it tougher to move.  I gained 10 lbs in a year eating the same amount of food I ate the year before, and losing it has been a lot harder.  I only also lose weight on 1200 calories a day (before adding in exercise), and it is tough, tough, tough.  Like you said, it takes constant vigilance. 

Have you tried adding in some weight training to compensate for the muscle mass loss?  I actually need to get back on board with this.  I tend to run more in the summer and do more weights in the winter.   
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: crazyworld on October 24, 2014, 10:20:56 AM
Quote
No thin person is harmed because their next-door neighbor likes to pig out on greaseburgers.

Would you like to hear the stories of all the medical personnel who hurt themselves, permanently, trying to move mounds of flesh? Who got stepped on? Or would you just like to hear about how insanely expensive it is for the rest of us as a society to support them. I can quote you some hilariously infuriating stories.

I mean, to be fair, it's what - 30% obese and 30% overweight? I guess it's mostly just the rest of us normals supporting the overweight majority. I'd much rather pay for food for poor people, than for medical procedures for the obese.

Quote
What is your recommendation for me for magical weight loss? No really, I would love to know.

Keep a food diary of absolutely every thing you put into your gullet. Weigh it if you have to so you don't underestimate, I don't care. Everyone talking about trying to lose weight underestimates. Post it after a month.

Quote
I already exercise several times a week (yoga, zumba, strength, walking; recently started running).

As I said before: exercise makes you look better and feel better but unless you're coming home feeling like a truck ran you over, you're not losing nearly as many calories as you think. Zumba, yoga, walking... not interesting. Running - for how long, how fast, up what kind of hills? Strength - how much are you lifting? Do all of those things but do them harder, faster, and more often. Build up to lifting more and more, running faster and farther. Once you actually start shedding a noticeable amount of energy through exercise, not the light version, you'll see fat gone and muscle appear. Until then, what you're doing is good but it's just baby steps and you need to know that so you don't think it's the end but know it's just the beginning.

Just curious, you do all of these things on a regular basis that you are asking me to do? ie, you weigh & measure your food and do the exercises you are recommending for me? And you are positive coming home from a workout feeling like I was run over by a truck will be good for my body in the long run?
Also, yeah I have done the food journal thing. Its good to bring everything into focus periodically.  Could I work out more - sure.  Too much heavy lifting = bulk for me - I just look fatter than ever.  Too much cardio = hunger pangs = bad food choices.  It is a fine line for me.  I find intermittant fasting helps - just don't eat. At all.  Hard to sustain forever though. 
Anyway, you are not getting the point.  Some of us struggle with maintaining our weight.  To you its all an excuse, not physiology.
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: Public Hermit on October 24, 2014, 10:56:17 AM
People can make all the excuses they want for being overweight. Physiology is only a small part of it. What percentage of people were overweight/obese 40 years ago as opposed to today? Do genetics change that much in 40 years where 70% of the AMERICAN population suddenly has the "fat, malfunctioning thyroid gene"? I think not. I'm not "fat shaming" anybody. I just think it is selfish and unfair for the fit/healthy people to have to pay higher medical premiums as a result of all the health issues from the 70%(which, in most cases, is preventable).

I dropped 50 pounds about two years ago. Do I still eat junk food? Yes. Do I still drink alcohol? Yes. What's different? I started exercising, cut out the soda and cut back on the alcohol and junk food. Everything in moderation.
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: mm1970 on October 24, 2014, 11:36:07 AM
People can make all the excuses they want for being overweight. Physiology is only a small part of it. What percentage of people were overweight/obese 40 years ago as opposed to today? Do genetics change that much in 40 years where 70% of the AMERICAN population suddenly has the "fat, malfunctioning thyroid gene"? I think not. I'm not "fat shaming" anybody. I just think it is selfish and unfair for the fit/healthy people to have to pay higher medical premiums as a result of all the health issues from the 70%(which, in most cases, is preventable).

I dropped 50 pounds about two years ago. Do I still eat junk food? Yes. Do I still drink alcohol? Yes. What's different? I started exercising, cut out the soda and cut back on the alcohol and junk food. Everything in moderation.
I think it's very complicated, and there are a lot of reasons why people are fat today compared to 40 years ago.  Which is why we can't just say "I did it, so can you!"  Like the exercise thing. I like to say "you can't exercise your way out of a bad diet".  Or, most people can, to a certain age.  For me, it was about 24.  I know people who could just "exercise more to eat whatever they want" until 30, 40, 50, 60, depending on genetics and joints (i.e., the runners could do it longer, but not everyone has the physical ability to run).

Look at WHAT we eat now - more processed foods, more junk food, more sugar, more soda.
Look at how little general movement we get.  I mean, have you seen how the Amish eat?  But they are physically active in their daily lives.
My dad was an auto mechanic, and worked on his feet most of the day.
My mom SAH and was a bank teller.  At home, she did housework, hung laundry to dry, gardened - was physically active (but still overweight except for the years from 38 to 42 when she started walking 3-6 miles a day and went on a 1000 cal a day diet).

Most people I know have sedentary jobs (myself included), and work longer hours than our parents did.  Less time to be physically active and less time to actually cook.
And of course, the prevalence of junk food and fast food has gone WAY up.  It's just so much easier to pick something up.
Add to that stress (economic and other) that affects your weight.

Plus now we are learning more about overweight - how your gut flora affects your health and body - more C-sections, less breastfeeding = more health issues.  Your body makes more fat cells as a child or teen - so more fat teens =  more fat adults.  A fat adult who was fat as a teen simply has more fat cells and won't be able to maintain the same weight as someone who has never been fat.  Plus, having been obese changes how your body processes food, particularly sugar and starch.  This is why someone who has never been overweight can eat a certain way, but someone who has been fat and lost weight cannot eat the same way (or they will gain weight back).

It's all pretty fascinating stuff.

We cannot boil it all down to one thing.  The answer is not going to be easy or simple.

My old company has new health insurance policies - you have to go through tests for BMI, blood sugar, weight, smoking, and blood pressure.  If you or your spouse fails 3/5, then your insurance premiums are higher.  I think this is actually a pretty good idea.  I wouldn't want it to be a single measure affecting your premiums, but several risk factors?  Why not.
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: mm1970 on October 24, 2014, 11:56:30 AM

Exactly. Everyone's got an excuse. "I eat because I'm sad." Yeah. "I drive a quarter mile in my SUV because my knees hurt." Yeah. Everyone's got an excuse and this thread is full of excuses. Learn to love good food and cut out soda, candy, garbage, and you'll be fine.

What if I don't drink soda, not even diet (never have), rarely eat candy (prob. ate some as a kid, don't care for it much - too sugary tasting), garbage (what exactly?). What is your recommendation for me for magical weight loss? No really, I would love to know.  I already exercise several times a week (yoga, zumba, strength, walking; recently started running).  I love vegetables, fruit, salad, lentils, beans, eggs, nuts.  Weakness for baked goods - don't keep those at home. I eat dark chocolate to keep the cravings at bay.  Drink a lot of water, don;t like beer, wine maybe a glass every few months. 
Now, I am not obese - keeping up my healthy habits keeps at about a size 12-14.  If I am militant about it and life is going smooth, I can even be size 8-10.  That is about as low as I have managed. I still look fat, at 5'1".  Other people who are larger, may not have the time and/or knowledge to put in the work required to do all this all the time.  That is not an excuse.  Time is finite.  I bet I could really get into great shape if I was not working and had all day to exercise and prep healthy meals.  How realistic is this for everyone?  I live with a naturally thin person, who eats as I do and never exercises.  I know his body is different.
[/quote]
This is very similar to me at 5'2".  I have to work very hard to stay here at a size 14 and slowly lose weight.  Seriously have to be perfect to lose even 1/2 lb a week.

My joints limit me unfortunately.  I cannot run, so I can't run "faster, harder".  I lift weights, but alone and at home, so there are limitations.  I walk, but I can't walk "longer, farther" due to time constraints. I  love Zumba, but that's how I sprained my knee in January, and it's still sensitive and easy to injure.  It's hard to explain to people who haven't come up against age or injury-related issues that it's not just "do more" and "go harder".

I switched from 1/2 marathons to sprint triathlons a few years ago, but was injured (again) running.  I went to PT and had to make adjustments (stop running). I had three tri friends say "it's good that you are listening to your body".  One of them (the 30 year old) you could tell was thinking "wimp".  One of them (my age) you could tell was thinking "OMG I hope I don't ever get injured".  One of them (my age) really meant "good for you for listening to your body".
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: Jags4186 on October 24, 2014, 12:22:00 PM
The complainypants is strong in this thread.

I recommend you purchase a book called "Where Did All the Fat Go" by Dr. Herzog--yes the head doctor from the Biggest loser.  One season of the biggest loser they had a contestant from every state--but only like 16 made it on the show.  The other 34 were left at home without the shows infrastructure to help them.  What do you know the big fat people who did the program, while working stressful jobs and raising families, were able to lose an obnoxious amount of weight!!!

Look I'm not saying its "easy" to lose weight.  I'm saying that people who actively put in the right effort should be able to lose weight.  Saying you do zoomba or square dancing while having dark chocolate every now and then to "curb the cravings" tells me you aren't serious about losing weight.  Worrying about "getting bulky"?  That's my favorite--absolute favorite--excuse from women.  I mean you seriously think that if you pick up a 5lb dumbbell you're going to look like Chyna?  Give me a break.
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: Kaspian on October 24, 2014, 12:57:18 PM
I mean, have you seen how the Amish eat?  But they are physically active in their daily lives.

This is insanely true.  When the neighbouring community of Mennonites visit my city, those women are the sexiest, muscle-ridden lean-machines around.  ...And they eat potatoes & bread every day and make the best pies you'll ever eat. 
(I'm not being sexist there, but I don't check out the body shapes of the dudes quite as much as the women.  ...However, I have noted that the beer-gut is conspicuously missing on the guys.)
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: Kaspian on October 24, 2014, 01:03:36 PM
So instead, there is this HIIT stuff that you really get your metabolism going in shorter time.  Except most of it is high impact, and my joints cannot take it. I've tried to do it on the bike, but it makes my knee ache.  I've tried to do sprints in the pool, but I simply can't get a fast turnover on my stroke without my shoulders hurting.  It's a joint thing - my joints simply cannot take the intensity and/or time required to get the "burn" that I did when I was younger.

Have you tried yoga?  Turn up the heat in the room and do 20-minutes of it a few times a week?  I'm 43, *hate* working out (except swimming), and it's the only thing I've found that helps my joints feel better while burning a few calories.  I use the "Yoga Zone" series--which are divided into 20-minute low-impact workouts.  It's weird for a guy to do yoga (where I live it is) but I'm 6'5", been through a few bad back issues, and this is the only thing which keeps it at bay.  ...Hey, you gotta do what you gotta do, right?
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: eyePod on October 24, 2014, 01:05:56 PM
Fatties gonna fat. If they were the sort of people to take responsibility for their actions, they wouldn't be obeasts.
Weight loss is not a simple matter of knowing calories out must be greater than calories in.  Conceptually, it's simple, but that doesn't mean it's easy.


Sorry bud, but you hit the nail on the head here. Weight loss is simple. It definitely isn't easy. There's no question that on the large scale, especially at the obese end, it's a question of calories in/out. That's it. Hell, for most people who aren't high level athletes, that's enough.

And what's the difference between obese people and people who are in crazy debt? Generally, the latter are always looked down upon and ridiculed around here and no one bats an eye. Same premise for obesity. Either is overindulging in something (spending/eating) that's negatively impacting your health/well-being/future.

Again, saving money is simple, but it's not easy.
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: crispy on October 24, 2014, 03:34:38 PM
This is a fascinating subject to me.  I have struggled with my weight all my life and spend much of it overweight.  I started doing Weight Watcher in 2011 and have lost 100+ pounds and have maintained the loss for a little over two years.  I do have an underactive thyroid and have been on medication for 10 years.  That makes losing weight harder, no question, although in my case, not impossible.

One thing that people seem to forget is that weight loss for many people is more of a mental game than a physical one.  I was never one to jump from one weight loss fad to the other, but I always had the desire to lose weight but not the motivation.  I also technically knew what to do (eat less, exercise more), but I didn't know how to do it. I started Weight Watchers and something about the program just really clicked with me.  The road wasn't easy and maintaining my loss is even harder.  It's a constant battle every day to maintain the status quo.  If people haven't struggled with their weight, they have no idea how hard a road it is for many people.  Yes, the math may be simple, but the journey isn't.
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: resy on October 24, 2014, 03:38:05 PM
I note she can afford hair color, a tattoo, and a lip ring.

I noted the same things.
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: mm1970 on October 24, 2014, 04:44:46 PM
So instead, there is this HIIT stuff that you really get your metabolism going in shorter time.  Except most of it is high impact, and my joints cannot take it. I've tried to do it on the bike, but it makes my knee ache.  I've tried to do sprints in the pool, but I simply can't get a fast turnover on my stroke without my shoulders hurting.  It's a joint thing - my joints simply cannot take the intensity and/or time required to get the "burn" that I did when I was younger.

Have you tried yoga?  Turn up the heat in the room and do 20-minutes of it a few times a week?  I'm 43, *hate* working out (except swimming), and it's the only thing I've found that helps my joints feel better while burning a few calories.  I use the "Yoga Zone" series--which are divided into 20-minute low-impact workouts.  It's weird for a guy to do yoga (where I live it is) but I'm 6'5", been through a few bad back issues, and this is the only thing which keeps it at bay.  ...Hey, you gotta do what you gotta do, right?
I love Yoga.  Right now I am doing mostly swimming, biking, and a Yoga-LIKE workout called PiYo.  It's a lot of yoga moves, but faster.  All body weight exercises. And it really kicks my butt.  I have to credit it for a lot of my knee strengthening too...it's been much better since I've started doing it.  I have a couple of other yoga DVDs too.

I can certainly see the results in my biceps (though part of that is lifting a 25 lb toddler), and my coworker says she can see it in my butt.  (She's been doing it too.)  I'm a big fan of weight training, but I especially love body weight exercises for their ease and simplicity.  The only problem is the 2 year old - if he's awake, he either crawls under me or on top of me.
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: sheepstache on October 24, 2014, 04:59:15 PM
Fatties gonna fat. If they were the sort of people to take responsibility for their actions, they wouldn't be obeasts.
Weight loss is not a simple matter of knowing calories out must be greater than calories in.  Conceptually, it's simple, but that doesn't mean it's easy.


Sorry bud, but you hit the nail on the head here. Weight loss is simple. It definitely isn't easy. There's no question that on the large scale, especially at the obese end, it's a question of calories in/out. That's it. Hell, for most people who aren't high level athletes, that's enough.

And what's the difference between obese people and people who are in crazy debt? Generally, the latter are always looked down upon and ridiculed around here and no one bats an eye. Same premise for obesity. Either is overindulging in something (spending/eating) that's negatively impacting your health/well-being/future.

Again, saving money is simple, but it's not easy.
Unless you're Einstein, nothing you're doing is changing what we know about physics. Eat less, weigh less. Nobody's that different.

Enjoy your excuses, folks. I'm out.

But that's just why it's NOT like budgeting. The math of budgets are the same for everyone.

The physics of light entering the eye is the same for everyone. That's math. But my vision is worse than most people's. That is not a matter of conscious choice or willpower. And it is despite there being a huge evolutionary pressure to have good vision.

Women maintain more subcutical fat than men. Some people keep fat on their belly, some keep it on their thighs. This has nothing to do with any particular diet or exercise regime. I have no idea why people insist on thinking this one particular bodily process is the same for everyone when there are so many obvious visible examples of differences.

My friend who is asthmatic and has bad knees is a phenomenal sprinter. I have more slow-twitch muscles so I'm a long-distance person. It would be complainypants to claim that I can't improve my sprint, but it would be true to say I have to train very hard to get something she has naturally and indeed that I might never get up to her level.

Two children can lead identical lives but one will be taller than the other.

I have zero clue why anyone thinks metabolic processes are magically different from every other bodily function.
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: trailrated on October 24, 2014, 05:32:53 PM
All very valid points, and made me rethink my stance on the issue a bit.

At the end of the day when this is viewed through the lense of mustachianism I think that rather than complaining about what we cannot control, we strive to work on what we can control. Can I eat healthier? Ok then do it. Can I exercise a little more? Ok then do it. It is all about improving yourself, not comparing yourself to those who are better and/or worse regardless of the factors that made it that way.
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: Bob W on October 25, 2014, 07:31:47 AM

Exactly. Everyone's got an excuse. "I eat because I'm sad." Yeah. "I drive a quarter mile in my SUV because my knees hurt." Yeah. Everyone's got an excuse and this thread is full of excuses. Learn to love good food and cut out soda, candy, garbage, and you'll be fine.

What if I don't drink soda, not even diet (never have), rarely eat candy (prob. ate some as a kid, don't care for it much - too sugary tasting), garbage (what exactly?). What is your recommendation for me for magical weight loss? No really, I would love to know.  I already exercise several times a week (yoga, zumba, strength, walking; recently started running).  I love vegetables, fruit, salad, lentils, beans, eggs, nuts.  Weakness for baked goods - don't keep those at home. I eat dark chocolate to keep the cravings at bay.  Drink a lot of water, don;t like beer, wine maybe a glass every few months. 
Now, I am not obese - keeping up my healthy habits keeps at about a size 12-14.  If I am militant about it and life is going smooth, I can even be size 8-10.  That is about as low as I have managed. I still look fat, at 5'1".  Other people who are larger, may not have the time and/or knowledge to put in the work required to do all this all the time.  That is not an excuse.  Time is finite.  I bet I could really get into great shape if I was not working and had all day to exercise and prep healthy meals.  How realistic is this for everyone?  I live with a naturally thin person, who eats as I do and never exercises.  I know his body is different.
This is very similar to me at 5'2".  I have to work very hard to stay here at a size 14 and slowly lose weight.  Seriously have to be perfect to lose even 1/2 lb a week.

My joints limit me unfortunately.  I cannot run, so I can't run "faster, harder".  I lift weights, but alone and at home, so there are limitations.  I walk, but I can't walk "longer, farther" due to time constraints. I  love Zumba, but that's how I sprained my knee in January, and it's still sensitive and easy to injure.  It's hard to explain to people who haven't come up against age or injury-related issues that it's not just "do more" and "go harder".

I switched from 1/2 marathons to sprint triathlons a few years ago, but was injured (again) running.  I went to PT and had to make adjustments (stop running). I had three tri friends say "it's good that you are listening to your body".  One of them (the 30 year old) you could tell was thinking "wimp".  One of them (my age) you could tell was thinking "OMG I hope I don't ever get injured".  One of them (my age) really meant "good for you for listening to your body".
[/quote].              Try paleo for 30 days.  Your joints indicate a wheat issue.   Then slowly build up to a HIT swimming or biking program.
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: crazyworld on October 25, 2014, 09:22:49 AM
People can make all the excuses they want for being overweight. Physiology is only a small part of it. What percentage of people were overweight/obese 40 years ago as opposed to today? Do genetics change that much in 40 years where 70% of the AMERICAN population suddenly has the "fat, malfunctioning thyroid gene"? I think not. I'm not "fat shaming" anybody. I just think it is selfish and unfair for the fit/healthy people to have to pay higher medical premiums as a result of all the health issues from the 70%(which, in most cases, is preventable).

I dropped 50 pounds about two years ago. Do I still eat junk food? Yes. Do I still drink alcohol? Yes. What's different? I started exercising, cut out the soda and cut back on the alcohol and junk food. Everything in moderation.
My grandma was, so was my dad, and still is, age 77, btw, on no prescription drugs at all. its your anecdotal evidence against mine.  Absolutely, eating junk and not exercising will make almost anyone fat. Bit it will make some people obese, some only modestly overweight. Some of us have to make a job of staying on top of our weight. That is the problem.  Life gets in the way. I am not obese, but that is because I have spent half of my waking hours working out, preparing food, reading up on nutrition and fitness. What a drain on time.
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: mm1970 on October 25, 2014, 09:27:00 AM

Exactly. Everyone's got an excuse. "I eat because I'm sad." Yeah. "I drive a quarter mile in my SUV because my knees hurt." Yeah. Everyone's got an excuse and this thread is full of excuses. Learn to love good food and cut out soda, candy, garbage, and you'll be fine.

What if I don't drink soda, not even diet (never have), rarely eat candy (prob. ate some as a kid, don't care for it much - too sugary tasting), garbage (what exactly?). What is your recommendation for me for magical weight loss? No really, I would love to know.  I already exercise several times a week (yoga, zumba, strength, walking; recently started running).  I love vegetables, fruit, salad, lentils, beans, eggs, nuts.  Weakness for baked goods - don't keep those at home. I eat dark chocolate to keep the cravings at bay.  Drink a lot of water, don;t like beer, wine maybe a glass every few months. 
Now, I am not obese - keeping up my healthy habits keeps at about a size 12-14.  If I am militant about it and life is going smooth, I can even be size 8-10.  That is about as low as I have managed. I still look fat, at 5'1".  Other people who are larger, may not have the time and/or knowledge to put in the work required to do all this all the time.  That is not an excuse.  Time is finite.  I bet I could really get into great shape if I was not working and had all day to exercise and prep healthy meals.  How realistic is this for everyone?  I live with a naturally thin person, who eats as I do and never exercises.  I know his body is different.
This is very similar to me at 5'2".  I have to work very hard to stay here at a size 14 and slowly lose weight.  Seriously have to be perfect to lose even 1/2 lb a week.

My joints limit me unfortunately.  I cannot run, so I can't run "faster, harder".  I lift weights, but alone and at home, so there are limitations.  I walk, but I can't walk "longer, farther" due to time constraints. I  love Zumba, but that's how I sprained my knee in January, and it's still sensitive and easy to injure.  It's hard to explain to people who haven't come up against age or injury-related issues that it's not just "do more" and "go harder".

I switched from 1/2 marathons to sprint triathlons a few years ago, but was injured (again) running.  I went to PT and had to make adjustments (stop running). I had three tri friends say "it's good that you are listening to your body".  One of them (the 30 year old) you could tell was thinking "wimp".  One of them (my age) you could tell was thinking "OMG I hope I don't ever get injured".  One of them (my age) really meant "good for you for listening to your body".
.              Try paleo for 30 days.  Your joints indicate a wheat issue.   Then slowly build up to a HIT swimming or biking program.
[/quote]
I have been pretty close to paleo for the last 30 days (more primal than paleo because I do eat dairy), with the caveat that I get a day off every week (generally a meal off).  It's the only type of eating that is allowing my weight to budge at all.  The hard thing for me to give up is beans though.  I love beans.

The joint issue isn't an overall "bad joints", it's injury.  The hip was injured from running.  Then I took 9 months off.  When I restarted, I decided to run in Vibrams.  This helped my hip a HUGE amount - no more pain, but I ended up with achilles tendonitis.  Then in January I got a little to aggressive in Zumba, hence the injured knee.  I've found that biking - I can do it, but I cannot do the fast speed without the pain in the still sensitive knee.  (I injured this same knee playing volleyball when I was 24, so 20 years ago, and it took 6 years before the pain was 100% gone - mostly it was sensitive to weather).  I still do HIIT in the pool most days that I swim, by sprinting one length and going slow one length, generally x5.

Unfortunately it's an age thing.  Not to say that I don't try - with all of the strengthening and yoga and weights over the last 9 months, I can now do regular burpees (without the jump at the end), vs. just stepping back one leg at a time.  Last week, I tried HIIT on the bike - too soon for the knee.  Every few weeks I try something that I used to do and hurt too much - if it doesn't hurt, I keep doing it.  If it does, I stop and figure I'll try again later.

Of course the 20 lb weight loss this year helps.
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: crazyworld on October 25, 2014, 09:54:15 AM
The complainypants is strong in this thread.

I recommend you purchase a book called "Where Did All the Fat Go" by Dr. Herzog--yes the head doctor from the Biggest loser.  One season of the biggest loser they had a contestant from every state--but only like 16 made it on the show.  The other 34 were left at home without the shows infrastructure to help them.  What do you know the big fat people who did the program, while working stressful jobs and raising families, were able to lose an obnoxious amount of weight!!!

Look I'm not saying its "easy" to lose weight.  I'm saying that people who actively put in the right effort should be able to lose weight.  Saying you do zoomba or square dancing while having dark chocolate every now and then to "curb the cravings" tells me you aren't serious about losing weight.  Worrying about "getting bulky"?  That's my favorite--absolute favorite--excuse from women.  I mean you seriously think that if you pick up a 5lb dumbbell you're going to look like Chyna?  Give me a break.
You are assuming I speak from theory. I have been doiing some form of working out since I was a teenager. Keep saying it is excuses. And I will keep saying you don't know what you are talkin about. I do 10-12lbs weights. What is the point of doing 5lb weights except when you are just starting out? But it does bulk me up. Especially my butt and thighs (those would squats and lunges etc) When i stop, I look slimmer. Just because you don't find its true for you, I must be making excuses. Yes, I lose weight, if I spend way too much time on the process. Sometimes I don't have time. Compare to my husband, who has just written a book. Because he does not have to spend half his life figuring out just the mix of diet and exercise that will keep the pounds in check.
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: crazyworld on October 25, 2014, 09:59:14 AM
Also, btw, yes just like the biggest loser, for a short while I can lose a lot of weight (again, I am not quite that huge). The problem is maintaining, while desiring to do something else with your life, then just think about diet and exercise. I do enough to keep the weight in check. But no doubt, at 5'1" and a size L, I am fat and look it.
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: crazyworld on October 25, 2014, 10:03:15 AM
People can make all the excuses they want for being overweight. Physiology is only a small part of it. What percentage of people were overweight/obese 40 years ago as opposed to today? Do genetics change that much in 40 years where 70% of the AMERICAN population suddenly has the "fat, malfunctioning thyroid gene"? I think not. I'm not "fat shaming" anybody. I just think it is selfish and unfair for the fit/healthy people to have to pay higher medical premiums as a result of all the health issues from the 70%(which, in most cases, is preventable).

I dropped 50 pounds about two years ago. Do I still eat junk food? Yes. Do I still drink alcohol? Yes. What's different? I started exercising, cut out the soda and cut back on the alcohol and junk food. Everything in moderation.
So you are allowed to eat junk food and drink alcohol ("in moderation"), which may do things to your health as you grow older, but just because I am overweight, I am increasing your premiums. Fyi, i have no heath issues at all, whatsoever. Barely see a doctor. Your premiums are not due to my weight, thats for sure. So lets take that out of the discussion.
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: daymare on October 25, 2014, 04:04:17 PM
Interesting discussion.  I think it's easy for people who have been naturally thin their whole lives (I'm in this group) to take that fact, compounded with the oft-repeated 'it's a simple matter or calories in vs out', to conclude that those who are overweight must be so due to overeating/laziness.  Which - sometimes, that is certainly the case (or a contributing factor), but I so don't buy that argument as the whole, simple, reason that some people are overweight.

It's things like having a really close friend who is overweight, eating most meals together in college, and having her remain 50 pounds heavier (and 5+ inches shorter) than me through all that.  Or the fact that I have personally been pretty much the same weight for my adult life.  Sure, now that I'm running more (training for half marathon), I can see more muscle, whereas in my sedentary winter months I get a lot softer in the middle.  But I still wear the same clothes, my size doesn't vary much at all, even when my exercise/eating habits do.  So I personally find the idea that people have certain 'set' weights, where they can easily maintain and it's less easy to gain or lose, pretty compelling from personal evidence.  And I really think that having sympathy and not approaching this topic from a place of judgement is key.
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: mm1970 on October 25, 2014, 04:14:37 PM
Also, btw, yes just like the biggest loser, for a short while I can lose a lot of weight (again, I am not quite that huge). The problem is maintaining, while desiring to do something else with your life, then just think about diet and exercise. I do enough to keep the weight in check. But no doubt, at 5'1" and a size L, I am fat and look it.
It's kind of exhausting isn't it?  When I lost weight the first time (early 30's), I took it as a part time job.  For 3 months I didn't eat out once, or drink a single alcoholic drink.

After my first baby, I cut my work hours by 10 hrs/ wk, and used those hours to weigh and measure my food and do weight watchers (again).  20 lbs in 3 months.

This time, even with regular exercise and weighing and measuring, it's taking a lot longer (20 lbs in 10 months).  Wow, it's seriously hours!  40 hours of work, plus kids, kid's homework, toddler, toddler not sleeping, kids being sick.

I spend hours on the weekend and on weeknights grocery shopping, washing and chopping vegetables, weighing food, measuring, putting into my fitness pal, prepacking lunches, washing lettuce, hard boiling eggs, planning dinners around the CSA (building that "recipe" and adding into my fitness pal).

Sometimes I finally get the kids to bed at 9, then spend my 15 minutes of free time washing veggies for the next night's dinner.  Then pass out.

It really *does* take that much work.  I get one day off a week.  That was yesterday this week. So today, it's the school festival.  Lots of homemade Mexican food for sale and cupcakes!  I'll be taking my apple as a snack, and some beef jerky.  My husband and kids will buy dinner there, but when we get home I'll bake my chicken breast and steam my green beans.

And tomorrow's potluck - I'll bake scones, or make something else, but really I'll just eat before I go and drink water and chat.

It takes (and always has), about 10-12 hours a week of solid work for me to lose weight.  FYI, that doesn't include actual exercise.  That's extra.
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: 4alpacas on October 25, 2014, 07:17:02 PM

I spend hours on the weekend and on weeknights grocery shopping, washing and chopping vegetables, weighing food, measuring, putting into my fitness pal, prepacking lunches, washing lettuce, hard boiling eggs, planning dinners around the CSA (building that "recipe" and adding into my fitness pal).


I'm not in weight loss mode, but your list sees normal to me.  I do get my groceries delivered and focus more on bulk cooking.  But none of the things you've listed seem all that time consuming to me.  What do you do when you're not in "weight loss" mode?
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: boarder42 on October 25, 2014, 10:15:47 PM
There isn't a weight loss mode if you have this mindset you'll constantly struggle we dont go into saving mode on this site. Quit complaining quit making excuses and do something to change your life or just like one of the first posters said

Become okay with the phrase

Fatties gonna fat.

Same as

Spenders gonna spend
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: boarder42 on October 25, 2014, 10:19:43 PM
Also fruit is full of sugar you may be overeating it. So to all those saying you're eating fruit you may be overeating it fruit to vegetable should be at 1-11 at a minimum  you can cut fruit out all together and you'll be better off than eating it most likely.

The I did it so can you is something all the big people here are opposed to but the fact is it can be done you're just choosing to not try
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: sarah8001 on October 26, 2014, 03:07:26 AM
I wish all you sexually active people would just stop it. I find the fact that you're sexually active disgusting. It's been linked to all kinds of nasty health problems, and causes insurance premiums to skyrocket. All these people are sexually active, then they get STIs and have babies and I'm supposed to pay for it? And the worse is men with their erectile disfunction pills and viagra. I can't believe they have the nerve to see doctors about such a stupid problem that is so easy to fix! JUST STOP HAVING SEX AND MASTURBATING! Whenever you get horny, just say no. Just get more willpower. Also, having sex is bad for the environment, because it causes pregnancy, and we all know if humans just stopped reproducing, it would take a huge load off the Earth in the next 80 years. Stop making excuses for why you have sex. There are no good excuses to have sex. Who cares if it feels good, or is comforting, or enjoyable. I'm tired of paying for it.
When you say things like "fatties gonna fat" it is just as ridiculous and just as effective as the above tirade (except sex actually does cause pregnancy, and obesity is only LINKED to many diseases, many studies are designed to prove that obesity causes disease, not to examine if it actually does). I'm obese, and I want that to change, but it's no easier for me than giving up sex and masturbation is to you. Actually a better example would be to give up all tactile and vocal communication with all other human beings, since I struggle with comfort eating. Not everybody is the same. I can read 1000+ words a day, and have since I was 9, but my younger brother was 14 before he learned to spell "Sarah." He had a learning disorder. It wasn't that he was lazy, or needed more willpower, the things that were easy for me were hard for him. It surely didn't help when I laughed at him, and teased him mercillessly about not being able to read. I was being a bully, and lacking in compassion. Check yourself.
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: Albert on October 26, 2014, 05:53:47 AM
This could be discussed ad nauseam, but the truth is that people (particularly those under 50) where on average fitter and leaner 30 years ago. There is absolutely no reason to think that in such a short time span anything changed genetically or people became more depressed and unhappy.

Where I live it's still fairly rare to see young obese people (overweight yes). At work (ca 300 people) I'd estimate ca 1% obese and ca 20% noticeably overweight. Our genetics are identical to that in places most posters on this board live.
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: mm1970 on October 26, 2014, 08:59:05 AM

I spend hours on the weekend and on weeknights grocery shopping, washing and chopping vegetables, weighing food, measuring, putting into my fitness pal, prepacking lunches, washing lettuce, hard boiling eggs, planning dinners around the CSA (building that "recipe" and adding into my fitness pal).


I'm not in weight loss mode, but your list sees normal to me.  I do get my groceries delivered and focus more on bulk cooking.  But none of the things you've listed seem all that time consuming to me.  What do you do when you're not in "weight loss" mode?
I don't count calories and weigh and measure everything.

I can easily eat 1500-2000 calories a day, feel satisfied, and maintain my weight.

In order to keep to 1200-1500 (closer to 1200-1300 in weight loss mode), I have to count calories, weigh and measure everything, and prep a lot more vegetables.

Maintenance mode I'd eat probably 3 cups of veggies a day.
Weight loss, I need more like 4-6 cups (2x as much!) to fill me up on fewer calories.  That's pretty much double the prep time.

Example: this week my husband was out of town. I  did all of my prep work on the weekend.  I didn't exercise much (no time to get away, and not getting enough sleep).  My calorie level was more like 1500 a day this week because I didn't have the time to do my normal counting.  And I didn't lose any weight.
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: Luck12 on October 26, 2014, 09:05:40 AM
There isn't a weight loss mode if you have this mindset you'll constantly struggle we dont go into saving mode on this site. Quit complaining quit making excuses and do something to change your life or just like one of the first posters said

Become okay with the phrase

Fatties gonna fat.

Same as

Spenders gonna spend

You are not one for nuance, are you?  I can guess what your politics are from that lack of nuance, black and white, arrogant and asshole way of thinking.   As others have said there are many variables affecting weight.  Nobody is saying you shouldn't try hard and do the "right" things to lose weight.    Being a naturally thin person and seeing too many thin people eat terribly and never exercise makes this obvious.     
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: justajane on October 26, 2014, 10:35:22 AM
I get annoyed how doctors don't seem to account for the natural progression of women's bodies. My mom has a friend who is wonderfully shaped for a 70+ year old and quite healthy; yet at her last appointment, her GP told her she needed to lose at least 10 pounds. I can't imagine she wears more than a size 12 and is quite tall.  No one looking at her would ever think that she needed to lose weight. I just don't understand why he said that. Is it because he was looking at an arbitrary chart?

This is anecdotal, but someone I know who has worked at nursing homes for a few decades said that the residents who enter with a little bit of padding (not excessive amounts, but some) fare much better in their twilight years. They definitely live longer.

I'm pushing forty and am realizing that I have to adjust down what I eat. Based on charts, I am probably 40 pounds overweight for my "frame", but even when I was in my early 20s,  very active and slim, I weighed about 8-10 pounds more than what the charts recommended. The reason? I am big breasted. They never seem to account for that. I know the 40 pound number is unrealistic for me, and frankly I love food too much to weigh my "optimum" weight. My goal is to be 20 pounds less than I am now.

In essence, people need to write their own rules - within reason. I have no interest in looking good in a bikini or looking like someone on the pages of US Weekly. Those people are probably underweight and live far away from my Midwestern world. I don't even care if I go to the doctor and he tells me I need to lose weight. What I want is to look in the mirror and be mostly happy with what I see. For me, that would be 20 pounds less. I'm okay with this number, considering I had three kids in my thirties and dealt with (and am still dealing with) extreme sleep deprivation three times. Yeah, yeah, excuses, excuses. But one person's excuses can be another person's explanations.

We could all stand to have a little more empathy, even when we don't understand. This includes financial trouble as well. I just spent two days in the hospital for an infection, and my financial defenses have been down this week. I have spent money on things that I would NEVER spend on prior to this. I've overpaid for things knowingly. But that's because I am in a lot of physical pain and still recovering. Our budget can absorb these indiscretions quite easily, but I am grateful for the sympathy and perspective this trial has provided me. Just because being frugal has been easy for me doesn't mean it is easy for everyone. The same applies to weight.

Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: Gin1984 on October 26, 2014, 10:58:14 AM
I get annoyed how doctors don't seem to account for the natural progression of women's bodies. My mom has a friend who is wonderfully shaped for a 70+ year old and quite healthy; yet at her last appointment, her GP told her she needed to lose at least 10 pounds. I can't imagine she wears more than a size 12 and is quite tall.  No one looking at her would ever think that she needed to lose weight. I just don't understand why he said that. Is it because he was looking at an arbitrary chart?

This is anecdotal, but someone I know who has worked at nursing homes for a few decades said that the residents who enter with a little bit of padding (not excessive amounts, but some) fare much better in their twilight years. They definitely live longer.

I'm pushing forty and am realizing that I have to adjust down what I eat. Based on charts, I am probably 40 pounds overweight for my "frame", but even when I was in my early 20s,  very active and slim, I weighed about 8-10 pounds more than what the charts recommended. The reason? I am big breasted. They never seem to account for that. I know the 40 pound number is unrealistic for me, and frankly I love food too much to weigh my "optimum" weight. My goal is to be 20 pounds less than I am now.

In essence, people need to write their own rules - within reason. I have no interest in looking good in a bikini or looking like someone on the pages of US Weekly. Those people are probably underweight and live far away from my Midwestern world. I don't even care if I go to the doctor and he tells me I need to lose weight. What I want is to look in the mirror and be mostly happy with what I see. For me, that would be 20 pounds less. I'm okay with this number, considering I had three kids in my thirties and dealt with (and am still dealing with) extreme sleep deprivation three times. Yeah, yeah, excuses, excuses. But one person's excuses can be another person's explanations.

We could all stand to have a little more empathy, even when we don't understand. This includes financial trouble as well. I just spent two days in the hospital for an infection, and my financial defenses have been down this week. I have spent money on things that I would NEVER spend on prior to this. I've overpaid for things knowingly. But that's because I am in a lot of physical pain and still recovering. Our budget can absorb these indiscretions quite easily, but I am grateful for the sympathy and perspective this trial has provided me. Just because being frugal has been easy for me doesn't mean it is easy for everyone. The same applies to weight.
There is research that agrees with you.  My postdoc does research on elderly and exercise and showed me a couple papers.  Not obese but slightly "overweight" has a correlation with longer life and health span.
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: Abe on October 26, 2014, 01:01:11 PM
They are likely relying on the Body-Mass-Index chart, which is known to be inaccurate for elderly and young due to differences in body fat composition (normally increased in these age groups). This emphasizes my prior point that weight by itself is not a useful measure of health except at the obvious extremes (severely underweight or severely overweight). An another point to note is that in the elderly, low or low-normal BMI is more likely due to generalized malnourishment rather than being especially healthy. This is due to multiple factors, including limited spending on food, poorer appetite due to chronic illness or difficulty eating due to undiagnosed swallowing disorders from dementia or strokes.

That being said, it has been shown that people grossly underestimate the amount of fat they are carrying when saying "I want to lose __ pounds to look like ___ ", because a significant amount of fat is carried within the abdominal cavity. This is especially true for adult males, but also applies to adult women who carry a significant abdominal subcutaneous fat.  I'll use myself as an example - 2 years ago I weighed 40 pounds more than now (195 vs 155), but my pant size and abdominal girth has only decreased about 2 inches. This indicates I carried a substantial amount of intra-abdominal fat and subcutaneous fat dispersed places other than my abdomen.
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: 4alpacas on October 26, 2014, 01:47:43 PM

I spend hours on the weekend and on weeknights grocery shopping, washing and chopping vegetables, weighing food, measuring, putting into my fitness pal, prepacking lunches, washing lettuce, hard boiling eggs, planning dinners around the CSA (building that "recipe" and adding into my fitness pal).


I'm not in weight loss mode, but your list sees normal to me.  I do get my groceries delivered and focus more on bulk cooking.  But none of the things you've listed seem all that time consuming to me.  What do you do when you're not in "weight loss" mode?
I don't count calories and weigh and measure everything.

I can easily eat 1500-2000 calories a day, feel satisfied, and maintain my weight.

In order to keep to 1200-1500 (closer to 1200-1300 in weight loss mode), I have to count calories, weigh and measure everything, and prep a lot more vegetables.

Maintenance mode I'd eat probably 3 cups of veggies a day.
Weight loss, I need more like 4-6 cups (2x as much!) to fill me up on fewer calories.  That's pretty much double the prep time.

Example: this week my husband was out of town. I  did all of my prep work on the weekend.  I didn't exercise much (no time to get away, and not getting enough sleep).  My calorie level was more like 1500 a day this week because I didn't have the time to do my normal counting.  And I didn't lose any weight.
I'm probably in the 4c/day (just a guesstimate), but I don't feel like it's a huge time commitment.  I buy a lot of prewashed spinach (for salads and smoothies), baby carrots (with hummus), and frozen vegetables (I toss frozen peas in everything). 

Maybe you could try switching to 4-6c/day permanently, but work toward using less time intensive prepping vegetables. 

I also avoid going out to eat (great for my budget and waist).  I find I spend much less time eating and prepping my food if I do it in bulk and freeze single servings (for quick lunches) and dinner portions (for two).  Some of my family members(the majority) struggle with weight issues, so I'm cautious of falling into bad habits. 
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: Bob W on October 26, 2014, 05:24:25 PM
Under no circumstance should a tax payer be forced at the point of a government gun to provide any food other than beans for an adult citizen.   None.  That is the correct answer.
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: GetItRight on October 27, 2014, 06:07:30 AM
FTFY...

Quote
Under no circumstance should a tax payer be forced at the point of a government gun to provide any food for any citizen.   None.
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: GuitarStv on October 27, 2014, 06:20:08 AM
Under no circumstance should a tax payer be forced at the point of a government gun to provide any food other than beans for an adult citizen.   None.  That is the correct answer.

Fortunately the government in question doesn't force any citizen to provide food with the point of a gun.
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: infogoon on October 27, 2014, 08:35:42 AM
Under no circumstance should a tax payer be forced at the point of a government gun to provide any food other than beans for an adult citizen.   None.  That is the correct answer.

Fortunately the government in question doesn't force any citizen to provide food with the point of a gun.

*Insert specious bullshit Libertarian argument about taxation being armed robbery here*
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: Bob W on October 27, 2014, 08:50:12 AM
Under no circumstance should a tax payer be forced at the point of a government gun to provide any food other than beans for an adult citizen.   None.  That is the correct answer.

Fortunately the government in question doesn't force any citizen to provide food with the point of a gun.

*Insert specious bullshit Libertarian argument about taxation being armed robbery here*

Not sure which country you live in but in my country the tax collectors carry guns and the power to take the property of those who do not wish to pay to feed other people surf and turf.

In case posters here don't realize,  the SNAP program funding in the US can be used to buy virtually any food from prime rib to caviar.   It is not a temporary beans and rice program.   The program can now be used at many restaurants as well. 

I cracked up last year at the boat dock when I found a fisherman had left behind his shrimp bait only to notice that the receipt was paid for with and EBT card.   

The SNAP program has lots of lobbyist for the ag industry supporting it.   What they lobby for is to take the money you earn away from you to support their industry. 

So yeah,  if you want to voluntarily pay for someone else to eat lobster while you yourself are eating beans then go for it.  Don't expect me to happy being forced to do the same. 

I can never figure out why some posters on this site don't realize that government taxation is enforced with force and power?? 
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: justajane on October 27, 2014, 09:01:47 AM
Under no circumstance should a tax payer be forced at the point of a government gun to provide any food other than beans for an adult citizen.   None.  That is the correct answer.

Fortunately the government in question doesn't force any citizen to provide food with the point of a gun.

*Insert specious bullshit Libertarian argument about taxation being armed robbery here*

Not sure which country you live in but in my country the tax collectors carry guns and the power to take the property of those who do not wish to pay to feed other people surf and turf.

In case posters here don't realize,  the SNAP program funding in the US can be used to buy virtually any food from prime rib to caviar.   It is not a temporary beans and rice program.   The program can now be used at many restaurants as well. 

I cracked up last year at the boat dock when I found a fisherman had left behind his shrimp bait only to notice that the receipt was paid for with and EBT card.   

The SNAP program has lots of lobbyist for the ag industry supporting it.   What they lobby for is to take the money you earn away from you to support their industry. 

So yeah,  if you want to voluntarily pay for someone else to eat lobster while you yourself are eating beans then go for it.  Don't expect me to happy being forced to do the same. 

I can never figure out why some posters on this site don't realize that government taxation is enforced with force and power??

Bob - your obsession with food stamps and seafood has shown up on other threads as well. Do you have any actual non-anecdotal evidence that lobster is being purchased en masse by SNAP recipients?
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: Tai on October 27, 2014, 09:08:50 AM
I have this hilarious image in my head now of a bunch of IRS accountants in their offices armed to the teeth. I guess that would audits doubly scary? Oops, you made a error in your calculations, boom!
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: GuitarStv on October 27, 2014, 09:48:18 AM
Under no circumstance should a tax payer be forced at the point of a government gun to provide any food other than beans for an adult citizen.   None.  That is the correct answer.

Fortunately the government in question doesn't force any citizen to provide food with the point of a gun.

*Insert specious bullshit Libertarian argument about taxation being armed robbery here*

Not sure which country you live in but in my country the tax collectors carry guns and the power to take the property of those who do not wish to pay to feed other people surf and turf.

*edited to remove unrelated rant*

I can never figure out why some posters on this site don't realize that government taxation is enforced with force and power??

If you go to a department store, pick something up, and then try to leave without paying for it you will likely run afoul of mall security.  Why do you believe that it should be possible to live in a country, benefit from the many resources made available to you, and then get away without paying your bill?  Tax evasion is theft.  Trying to justify your theft by playing for sympathy because the government will prosecute you for your crimes (in the same way that a shop owner would prosecute you for stealing from them) is a bit silly.
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: Bob W on October 27, 2014, 09:51:08 AM
Under no circumstance should a tax payer be forced at the point of a government gun to provide any food other than beans for an adult citizen.   None.  That is the correct answer.

Fortunately the government in question doesn't force any citizen to provide food with the point of a gun.

*Insert specious bullshit Libertarian argument about taxation being armed robbery here*

Not sure which country you live in but in my country the tax collectors carry guns and the power to take the property of those who do not wish to pay to feed other people surf and turf.

In case posters here don't realize,  the SNAP program funding in the US can be used to buy virtually any food from prime rib to caviar.   It is not a temporary beans and rice program.   The program can now be used at many restaurants as well. 

I cracked up last year at the boat dock when I found a fisherman had left behind his shrimp bait only to notice that the receipt was paid for with and EBT card.   

The SNAP program has lots of lobbyist for the ag industry supporting it.   What they lobby for is to take the money you earn away from you to support their industry. 

So yeah,  if you want to voluntarily pay for someone else to eat lobster while you yourself are eating beans then go for it.  Don't expect me to happy being forced to do the same. 

I can never figure out why some posters on this site don't realize that government taxation is enforced with force and power??

Bob - your obsession with food stamps and seafood has shown up on other threads as well. Do you have any actual non-anecdotal evidence that lobster is being purchased en masse by SNAP recipients?

Not really obsessed with it.  I happen to work in the social services field and see the food spending of SNAP recipients on a daily basis.   Here is what I saw just last Friday.   One gentleman, who I love,  had an empty Pizza Hut pizza box and two boxes of wings on his living room floor. One of my favorite clients who always runs out of food (and I often supply it out of my own pocket) purchased $5 worth of donuts at the convenience store.  (both of these folks live completely off the government)  Then my wife remarked that an obese woman in front of her at a C store purchased a large bag of chips using an EBT card.  The woman also had a 120 oz soda in hand.

I'm not a libertarian fanatic but feel that many forum readers are mislead with regard to food stamps.

For reference,  I ran a WIC (Women's Infants and Children) program for 5 years.    I found it to be a very well thought out program.  It provided supplemental food and formula.  The food was limited to about 15 very specific basic things such as peanut butter, milk, cereal.   I would deem this a good program.

By contrast the Ag business run SNAP program has opened up the door as wide as possible and makes virtually any food purchased at any price available.  Yes, including lobster.  I would deem this a bad and destructive program.

As mustachians we should all be writing our congress reps and imploring them to restrict the SNAP program to some limited and basic foods ---think beans and rice.  And it should be a lending program in that the government should lend the money to people when in need with the expectation that it be paid back. 

I'm old enough to remember when government cheese and canned meat was what a person could expect. (1980s)  At that time there was probably less than 5 million people on food stamps and actual stamps were used.   Today, there are close to 50 million people on the SNAP program.  And a majority of school aged children also receive free or reduced lunches at school.   At our district it is 80%. 

It is not a war on poverty or hunger it is a way for the democrats to buy votes and for big ag to obtain government subsidies.

So you don't think I'm some type of Godless uncaring person I do personally give money to those in need.   I just don't appreciate being taxed to support peoples Pizza Hut and Potato chip habits.

Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: NumberCruncher on October 27, 2014, 10:13:45 AM
As mustachians we should all be writing our congress reps and imploring them to restrict the SNAP program to some limited and basic foods ---think beans and rice.  And it should be a lending program in that the government should lend the money to people when in need with the expectation that it be paid back. 

Ah, but many mustachians (especially the paleos on this forumn)  are saying rice and beans will make everyone fatter.  ;)

Thank you for sharing your experiences with SNAP and WIC, though, definitely something to think about.
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: Bob W on October 27, 2014, 10:23:05 AM
As mustachians we should all be writing our congress reps and imploring them to restrict the SNAP program to some limited and basic foods ---think beans and rice.  And it should be a lending program in that the government should lend the money to people when in need with the expectation that it be paid back. 

Ah, but many mustachians (especially the paleos on this forumn)  are saying rice and beans will make everyone fatter. 

Thank you for sharing your experiences with SNAP and WIC, though, definitely something to think about.

You're welcome!  I'm working towards Paleo myself so the beans and rice are out for me but since the FDA still says they are good for you, I think they would suffice for the SNAP program.  The WIC program actually was a grain based USDA promoted program that I didn't much like for the food content ---milk and grains for god sake!   But I did really appreciate that it was limited. 

We know that when you give people free money and unlimited choices,  they are likely to make some misinformed choices.     If the SNAP program was rice, beans and milk, I think participation would dwindle very quickly. 
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: justajane on October 27, 2014, 10:54:16 AM
Under no circumstance should a tax payer be forced at the point of a government gun to provide any food other than beans for an adult citizen.   None.  That is the correct answer.

Fortunately the government in question doesn't force any citizen to provide food with the point of a gun.

*Insert specious bullshit Libertarian argument about taxation being armed robbery here*

Not sure which country you live in but in my country the tax collectors carry guns and the power to take the property of those who do not wish to pay to feed other people surf and turf.

In case posters here don't realize,  the SNAP program funding in the US can be used to buy virtually any food from prime rib to caviar.   It is not a temporary beans and rice program.   The program can now be used at many restaurants as well. 

I cracked up last year at the boat dock when I found a fisherman had left behind his shrimp bait only to notice that the receipt was paid for with and EBT card.   

The SNAP program has lots of lobbyist for the ag industry supporting it.   What they lobby for is to take the money you earn away from you to support their industry. 

So yeah,  if you want to voluntarily pay for someone else to eat lobster while you yourself are eating beans then go for it.  Don't expect me to happy being forced to do the same. 

I can never figure out why some posters on this site don't realize that government taxation is enforced with force and power??

Bob - your obsession with food stamps and seafood has shown up on other threads as well. Do you have any actual non-anecdotal evidence that lobster is being purchased en masse by SNAP recipients?

Not really obsessed with it.  I happen to work in the social services field and see the food spending of SNAP recipients on a daily basis.   Here is what I saw just last Friday.   One gentleman, who I love,  had an empty Pizza Hut pizza box and two boxes of wings on his living room floor. One of my favorite clients who always runs out of food (and I often supply it out of my own pocket) purchased $5 worth of donuts at the convenience store.  (both of these folks live completely off the government)  Then my wife remarked that an obese woman in front of her at a C store purchased a large bag of chips using an EBT card.  The woman also had a 120 oz soda in hand.

I'm not a libertarian fanatic but feel that many forum readers are mislead with regard to food stamps.

For reference,  I ran a WIC (Women's Infants and Children) program for 5 years.    I found it to be a very well thought out program.  It provided supplemental food and formula.  The food was limited to about 15 very specific basic things such as peanut butter, milk, cereal.   I would deem this a good program.

By contrast the Ag business run SNAP program has opened up the door as wide as possible and makes virtually any food purchased at any price available.  Yes, including lobster.  I would deem this a bad and destructive program.

As mustachians we should all be writing our congress reps and imploring them to restrict the SNAP program to some limited and basic foods ---think beans and rice.  And it should be a lending program in that the government should lend the money to people when in need with the expectation that it be paid back. 

I'm old enough to remember when government cheese and canned meat was what a person could expect. (1980s)  At that time there was probably less than 5 million people on food stamps and actual stamps were used.   Today, there are close to 50 million people on the SNAP program.  And a majority of school aged children also receive free or reduced lunches at school.   At our district it is 80%. 

It is not a war on poverty or hunger it is a way for the democrats to buy votes and for big ag to obtain government subsidies.

So you don't think I'm some type of Godless uncaring person I do personally give money to those in need.   I just don't appreciate being taxed to support peoples Pizza Hut and Potato chip habits.

Thanks, Bob. Your level of experience is not something I can dismiss out of hand. We have a friend who is a pediatrician who rails against the waste in the WIC program. In particular, he is annoyed that you can buy expensive brand name formula on the program. But that's thanks to the Enfamil lobby. I don't think it's demeaning to those in need to insist that they only buy store brands on government assistance or not allow the purchase of soda or desserts on SNAP. We can certainly agree on that. 
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: Bob W on October 27, 2014, 11:11:51 AM
The WIC program may have changed since my tenure.   At that time it did not provide enough formula for a months time and breast feeding was highly encouraged.   The price of virtually all formula is high and I do know that we needed Doctor's orders for the more expensive special formulas.  Some babies just can't handle soy or whey products.   

Still, all in all I would say it is one of the better run government programs.   

By the way, one of my young adult children is constantly hitting me up for money for food of all things.   I ran the SNAP calculator on line for her today and it showed she is eligible for $185 a month in SNAP benefits. 

Thanks to all those on this thread for promoting the benefits of SNAP,  I am encouraging her to apply for benefits.  She is a great kid having a tough time who weighs about 100 lbs. 

Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: Cpa Cat on October 27, 2014, 11:15:52 AM
Some of you guys are pretty harsh on SNAP. I would at least throw in some frozen spinach with the rice and beans.

In all seriousness, reasonable (if slightly imperfect) limits are already in place for what can be purchased with WIC. It's pretty ridiculous that SNAP doesn't at least use the same limits.

Frankly, I think that SNAP should be tightened considerably. Then throw in free lunch for 100% of students (eliminate the paperwork). Use the school lunches as a method for food education - to ensure that all children are receiving one healthy, balanced meal (and ultimately learn how to construct one).

But I'm not a lobbyist, so my opinion is worth exactly nothing.
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: infogoon on October 27, 2014, 12:08:46 PM
In case posters here don't realize,  the SNAP program funding in the US can be used to buy virtually any food from prime rib to caviar.   It is not a temporary beans and rice program.   The program can now be used at many restaurants as well. 

From the SNAP Restaurant Meals web site:

"Since 1977, the Restaurant Meals Program has been a voluntary component of the Federal Food Stamps Act. It enables qualified elderly, disabled and homeless SNAP recipients to buy food at authorized restaurants... The Restaurant Meals Program currently operates in Arizona and Michigan and in a handful of California counties."

So, you can buy prepared food with SNAP if you're homeless or too infirm or disabled to cook for yourself.

So yeah,  if you want to voluntarily pay for someone else to eat lobster while you yourself are eating beans then go for it.  Don't expect me to happy being forced to do the same. 

I can never figure out why some posters on this site don't realize that government taxation is enforced with force and power??

That's nothing. I have to pay taxes to support my municipal fire department, and my house has never even caught fire.
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: Bob W on October 27, 2014, 12:58:11 PM
In case posters here don't realize,  the SNAP program funding in the US can be used to buy virtually any food from prime rib to caviar.   It is not a temporary beans and rice program.   The program can now be used at many restaurants as well. 

From the SNAP Restaurant Meals web site:

"Since 1977, the Restaurant Meals Program has been a voluntary component of the Federal Food Stamps Act. It enables qualified elderly, disabled and homeless SNAP recipients to buy food at authorized restaurants... The Restaurant Meals Program currently operates in Arizona and Michigan and in a handful of California counties."

So, you can buy prepared food with SNAP if you're homeless or too infirm or disabled to cook for yourself.

So yeah,  if you want to voluntarily pay for someone else to eat lobster while you yourself are eating beans then go for it.  Don't expect me to happy being forced to do the same. 

I can never figure out why some posters on this site don't realize that government taxation is enforced with force and power??

That's nothing. I have to pay taxes to support my municipal fire department, and my house has never even caught fire.

It is even worse for me!  I live in a zone 10 area.  Basically the worst fire protection rating a house can have due to distance from the closest fire house.   The insurance company assumes that your house will burn to the ground.   But the great thing is that I get to pay a higher insurance rate and a fire department tax.

So I asked the county commission if I refused to pay property tax to a fire department of no value to me what they would do.  They said they would send the sheriff (again paid for with my taxes and providing no service to me) to evict me and take my home.   I asked if he would be carrying a gun when he came to take my property because I refused to pay for two services I was not receiving.  They said yes and he would be bringing plenty of armed deputies with him.

Of course,  I made that last paragraph up just to irritate those here who do not fully understand how governments based on the King's law function.   But sadly, it is the reality. 


Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: GuitarStv on October 27, 2014, 03:01:13 PM
So move to a country where they let you pick what government services to pay for a la carte and stop bitching about where you live.
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: bacchi on October 27, 2014, 03:53:40 PM
So move to a country where they let you pick what government services to pay for a la carte and stop bitching about where you live.

South Fulton, TN, just might be the place.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2011/12/07/9272989-firefighters-let-home-burn-over-75-fee-again
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: taekvideo on October 27, 2014, 10:03:48 PM
the picture makes it pretty obvious why she's fat
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: enigmaT120 on October 28, 2014, 10:57:58 AM
Weird.  I live outside any fire protection district, which probably makes my insurance premiums higher than Bob's.  But I don't pay any property (or other) tax for a fire department.  I guess the nearest department would come fight the fire and bill my insurance company, but since my house is made of cedar I assume they will not be successful at saving the house.

Most of my property tax goes to pay for schools, even though I don't have any kids.  Oh well, I don't feel like moving to Somalia.


Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: Gerard on November 02, 2014, 06:47:03 AM
I like that the MMM forums give me so many chances to re-examine (improve?) my attitudes and approaches to things. From this thread:
1. The simple-mindedness of the "I did it, so anybody can" argument is more obvious when people other than me say it. I grew up in poverty, in a family where nobody had gone beyond high school. Now I have a PhD and a high-paying job. I'm often tempted to think people who don't make that jump are lazy or stupid. Then I remind myself that I grew up with hard-working organic-gardening highly-literate parents in the socialist paradise of Quebec, where my poverty included free healthcare, free good centrally-administered public schools, and free or cheap post-secondary. From birth to BA in hand, my total costs for health care and education were $1590. Many people have far harder roads. So I'll seek out opportunities to shut up about how smart and hard-working I am.
2. I often have trouble putting myself in other people's shoes. I'm extremely grateful when someone spends time to write a thoughtful explanation of their situation. I need to remember to not pay them back by dismissing their experience because it's not mine, or because I like winning arguments.
3. Circle of control, obviously. Other people's weight is outside it. I don't get thinner or healthier by insulting them. This last one is hypocritical, though, because we come to the wall of shame and comedy specifically to insult *somebody*.
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: Public Hermit on November 02, 2014, 08:21:20 AM
People can make all the excuses they want for being overweight. Physiology is only a small part of it. What percentage of people were overweight/obese 40 years ago as opposed to today? Do genetics change that much in 40 years where 70% of the AMERICAN population suddenly has the "fat, malfunctioning thyroid gene"? I think not. I'm not "fat shaming" anybody. I just think it is selfish and unfair for the fit/healthy people to have to pay higher medical premiums as a result of all the health issues from the 70%(which, in most cases, is preventable).

I dropped 50 pounds about two years ago. Do I still eat junk food? Yes. Do I still drink alcohol? Yes. What's different? I started exercising, cut out the soda and cut back on the alcohol and junk food. Everything in moderation.
So you are allowed to eat junk food and drink alcohol ("in moderation"), which may do things to your health as you grow older, but just because I am overweight, I am increasing your premiums. Fyi, i have no heath issues at all, whatsoever. Barely see a doctor. Your premiums are not due to my weight, thats for sure. So lets take that out of the discussion.

That may change in 10 years. And alcohol consumption in moderation has been known to produce health benefits over the long term.
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: Public Hermit on November 02, 2014, 08:27:46 AM
People can make all the excuses they want for being overweight. Physiology is only a small part of it. What percentage of people were overweight/obese 40 years ago as opposed to today? Do genetics change that much in 40 years where 70% of the AMERICAN population suddenly has the "fat, malfunctioning thyroid gene"? I think not. I'm not "fat shaming" anybody. I just think it is selfish and unfair for the fit/healthy people to have to pay higher medical premiums as a result of all the health issues from the 70%(which, in most cases, is preventable).

I dropped 50 pounds about two years ago. Do I still eat junk food? Yes. Do I still drink alcohol? Yes. What's different? I started exercising, cut out the soda and cut back on the alcohol and junk food. Everything in moderation.
My grandma was, so was my dad, and still is, age 77, btw, on no prescription drugs at all. its your anecdotal evidence against mine.  Absolutely, eating junk and not exercising will make almost anyone fat. Bit it will make some people obese, some only modestly overweight. Some of us have to make a job of staying on top of our weight. That is the problem.  Life gets in the way. I am not obese, but that is because I have spent half of my waking hours working out, preparing food, reading up on nutrition and fitness. What a drain on time.

Most common excuse I hear. Life is almost always in the way. I work 65 hours a week and I still find the time to exercise and eat properly. Time devoted to fitness/nutrition is an investment against a future of crushing medical bills and doctor visits. It is inevitable that your poor health will also "get in the way" if you're not willing to put forth the effort.

Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: mm1970 on November 02, 2014, 08:50:19 AM
People can make all the excuses they want for being overweight. Physiology is only a small part of it. What percentage of people were overweight/obese 40 years ago as opposed to today? Do genetics change that much in 40 years where 70% of the AMERICAN population suddenly has the "fat, malfunctioning thyroid gene"? I think not. I'm not "fat shaming" anybody. I just think it is selfish and unfair for the fit/healthy people to have to pay higher medical premiums as a result of all the health issues from the 70%(which, in most cases, is preventable).

I dropped 50 pounds about two years ago. Do I still eat junk food? Yes. Do I still drink alcohol? Yes. What's different? I started exercising, cut out the soda and cut back on the alcohol and junk food. Everything in moderation.
My grandma was, so was my dad, and still is, age 77, btw, on no prescription drugs at all. its your anecdotal evidence against mine.  Absolutely, eating junk and not exercising will make almost anyone fat. Bit it will make some people obese, some only modestly overweight. Some of us have to make a job of staying on top of our weight. That is the problem.  Life gets in the way. I am not obese, but that is because I have spent half of my waking hours working out, preparing food, reading up on nutrition and fitness. What a drain on time.

Most common excuse I hear. Life is almost always in the way. I work 65 hours a week and I still find the time to exercise and eat properly. Time devoted to fitness/nutrition is an investment against a future of crushing medical bills and doctor visits. It is inevitable that your poor health will also "get in the way" if you're not willing to put forth the effort.
"Time devoted to fitness/nutrition" does not guarantee you won't be overweight.

You can put in the time, and the effort, and still be fat.  I hate the assumption that you can tell, just by looking at someone, whether or not they put in the time.

Just because you can do it, everyone can?  Even when I was working 50-60 hours a week - it was a LOT easier to spend my spare time cooking, eating healthfully, and working out, because I didn't have kids.  I could go lift with my husband, run on my lunch break, shop for and cook healthy exciting meals.  I didn't spend every spare waking minute coloring, changing diapers, feeding small children, doing 3rd grade homework.  My "free time" to work out is an occasional walk to the park with the kids to play.  Sometimes a workout DVD in the morning, but only before they wake up.  (Which was at 4:57 am today).

I still exercise many hours a week - I squeeze it in.  But it's a LOT harder with small children than people without children realize.
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: Bob W on November 03, 2014, 11:54:39 AM
Weird.  I live outside any fire protection district, which probably makes my insurance premiums higher than Bob's.  But I don't pay any property (or other) tax for a fire department.  I guess the nearest department would come fight the fire and bill my insurance company, but since my house is made of cedar I assume they will not be successful at saving the house.

Most of my property tax goes to pay for schools, even though I don't have any kids.  Oh well, I don't feel like moving to Somalia.

You might want to check those insurance premiums.  When we insured our house my regular agent and several other quotes where in the $225 a month range.   I was eventually able to find one for $75 with a county mutual company.  (wasn't even my county)

Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: waltworks on November 03, 2014, 12:49:10 PM
As a former personal trainer and professional athlete, let me briefly throw my hat in the ring here and hopefully I won't upset anyone.

I trained a lot of overweight people, as well as some people who weren't overweight and had some specific fitness (or "beach body") goals. All types. Mostly guys but some women as well, and mostly <30 (college and graduate students - this was at a university).

The folks who were aiming for weight loss inevitably failed. Progress is horribly slow, there are lots of unexpected/expected (holidays?) reversals, and let's be honest - none of my overweight clients were going to be heading out to modeling careers once they lost a few pounds. So the goals were simultaneously overambitious ("lose 75 pounds!") and abstract (probably dying at 90 instead of 75 isn't a bit motivator for college students).

On the other hand, I had some overweight (and normal weight) folks who weren't there for weight loss specifically. Typically they had discovered some activity they loved (powerlifting, tennis, cycling, you name it) and wanted to cross train/prevent injury/rehab from some mishap. They were motivated by *making their bodies do something cool*, whether that was a triple-digit bench press for the first time ever, or being able to do 2 consecutive pullups, or run a 7:00 mile, or whatever.

The folks who could focus on performance goals almost all lost weight. Some of them lost a lot. Some of them are probably unrecognizable today (sadly I didn't stay in touch with most of my clients after moving to another state). And it's because they had goals that were attainable and fun to try to reach, and which rewarded giving it everything they had every time they hit the weight room or the track or the erg. They could feel and see the improvements in their bodies every time they got out of bed, or picked up a sack of groceries, or walked up a big hill on campus with a date.

So my advice is this: find something you love that uses your body. It doesn't have to be running ultramarathons or swimming thousands of boring laps in a pool. Play basketball and realize you need to work on your vert. Get your bike out of storage and sign up for a century charity ride with friends. Enter a bench press competition at the gym and make a plan to be ready to give it your best on the day of the comp. Try to set a new record for your walk/jog/run to work every week. ANYTHING. Then try to kick ass at it. If it's not fun enough, try something else. If you have friends who are into a sport that seems interesting, ask to tag along, even if you feel ridiculous. You just might love it. And once you love to use your body - the rest is easy.

-W
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: golden1 on November 03, 2014, 12:58:45 PM
Quote
I like that the MMM forums give me so many chances to re-examine (improve?) my attitudes and approaches to things. From this thread:
1. The simple-mindedness of the "I did it, so anybody can" argument is more obvious when people other than me say it. I grew up in poverty, in a family where nobody had gone beyond high school. Now I have a PhD and a high-paying job. I'm often tempted to think people who don't make that jump are lazy or stupid. Then I remind myself that I grew up with hard-working organic-gardening highly-literate parents in the socialist paradise of Quebec, where my poverty included free healthcare, free good centrally-administered public schools, and free or cheap post-secondary. From birth to BA in hand, my total costs for health care and education were $1590. Many people have far harder roads. So I'll seek out opportunities to shut up about how smart and hard-working I am.
2. I often have trouble putting myself in other people's shoes. I'm extremely grateful when someone spends time to write a thoughtful explanation of their situation. I need to remember to not pay them back by dismissing their experience because it's not mine, or because I like winning arguments.
3. Circle of control, obviously. Other people's weight is outside it. I don't get thinner or healthier by insulting them. This last one is hypocritical, though, because we come to the wall of shame and comedy specifically to insult *somebody*.

Love this attitude!

I agree with Waltworks too.  I am trying to concentrate on improving my running, because it keeps me fit without obsessing about weight.  Everytime I concentrate on hitting a certain goal weight, I just start getting negative.  That is part of the reason on why I am concentrating on how a certain food makes me "feel" heathwise.  If I eat like shit, I feel like shit and I can't run effectively.  It is amazing what a mental shift will do for you. 
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: winterbike on November 03, 2014, 05:59:58 PM
All the calorie counters need to watch this: 6 reasons why calorie counting is crazy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WLmcB7Ea3c (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WLmcB7Ea3c)

Sure, calories matter, but the way to lose weight is to not focus on them, and focus on food quality instead. Your hunger signals will go back to normal (and the cravings will go away) and you'll naturally eat less.
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: Public Hermit on November 04, 2014, 01:27:34 PM
People can make all the excuses they want for being overweight. Physiology is only a small part of it. What percentage of people were overweight/obese 40 years ago as opposed to today? Do genetics change that much in 40 years where 70% of the AMERICAN population suddenly has the "fat, malfunctioning thyroid gene"? I think not. I'm not "fat shaming" anybody. I just think it is selfish and unfair for the fit/healthy people to have to pay higher medical premiums as a result of all the health issues from the 70%(which, in most cases, is preventable).

I dropped 50 pounds about two years ago. Do I still eat junk food? Yes. Do I still drink alcohol? Yes. What's different? I started exercising, cut out the soda and cut back on the alcohol and junk food. Everything in moderation.
My grandma was, so was my dad, and still is, age 77, btw, on no prescription drugs at all. its your anecdotal evidence against mine.  Absolutely, eating junk and not exercising will make almost anyone fat. Bit it will make some people obese, some only modestly overweight. Some of us have to make a job of staying on top of our weight. That is the problem.  Life gets in the way. I am not obese, but that is because I have spent half of my waking hours working out, preparing food, reading up on nutrition and fitness. What a drain on time.

Most common excuse I hear. Life is almost always in the way. I work 65 hours a week and I still find the time to exercise and eat properly. Time devoted to fitness/nutrition is an investment against a future of crushing medical bills and doctor visits. It is inevitable that your poor health will also "get in the way" if you're not willing to put forth the effort.
"Time devoted to fitness/nutrition" does not guarantee you won't be overweight.

You can put in the time, and the effort, and still be fat.  I hate the assumption that you can tell, just by looking at someone, whether or not they put in the time.

Just because you can do it, everyone can?  Even when I was working 50-60 hours a week - it was a LOT easier to spend my spare time cooking, eating healthfully, and working out, because I didn't have kids.  I could go lift with my husband, run on my lunch break, shop for and cook healthy exciting meals.  I didn't spend every spare waking minute coloring, changing diapers, feeding small children, doing 3rd grade homework.  My "free time" to work out is an occasional walk to the park with the kids to play.  Sometimes a workout DVD in the morning, but only before they wake up.  (Which was at 4:57 am today).

I still exercise many hours a week - I squeeze it in.  But it's a LOT harder with small children than people without children realize.

Sounds like more excuses to me. I can't count how many times I've heard the "I've got kids" excuse.
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: NumberJohnny5 on November 04, 2014, 02:18:21 PM
There are some parallels in getting physically fit and financially fit, but we have to realize there are some fundamental differences.

I can have a "no spend" November (or any month of your choosing). Let's say I'm allowed to continue paying rent/mortgage, basic utilities, and basic food (we're focusing purely on finances at the moment). How deprived am I going to be?

If I had a smart phone last month, I still have it this month. I can still play Angry Birds just as well as before (oh, and receive calls, I guess).

I still have my entertainment system, so I can watch free OTA TV, and watch a backlog of DVDs I may have (and if I have none, go to the library and check some out for free).

Project Gutenberg can fill up my Kindle, plus any newer stuff I can check out from the library.

My shoes are still in great shape, so my feet will be comfortable.

I can go about a month before I need to fill up the car's gas tank, so I'm set there.

Now, try to have a no-eat November. I challenge all of you. It's just a matter of willpower, isn't it? Yes yes, we actually spent some money in no-spend November above...you can have a (small) plate of rice and beans for lunch every Friday. And all the water you can drink. Even if you survive no-eat November...I can almost guarantee it's going to be a LOT harder, and a lot less comfortable, than the no-spend version.

So, let's not take it to extremes. Let's just talk about the average person, wanting to improve both his (or her) financial and physical fitness.

Let's cut cable and replace it with Netflix, a savings of $50-$100/mo. We've gone from having an almost limitless amount of entertainment at our fingertips, to having an almost limitless amount of entertainment at our fingertips (minus obvious commercials). Food wise, let's cut out donuts and replace them with rice cakes, a savings of 300 calories a day. We've gone from super yummy delicious food, to a cardboard analog.

Next, let's cut out Starbucks coffee purchased from Starbucks and replace it with Starbucks coffee from the grocery store, a savings of $100/mo (I have no idea, I'm making numbers up now). We've gone from having to find a place to park, go in the Starbucks, wait in line, then wait for it to be made, to...um...ok, no real sacrifice here. Food wise, we'll cut out all cookies and replace them with sugar free gum. We've gone from chocolate chip goodness to minty fresh breath.

Point is, most of us can drastically reduce our spending and still have a very full, luxurious life. Most of us cannot drastically reduce our eating and notice little/no change.

Living a Mustachian life can mean "Hrm, I have a super capable smartphone that does everything I want/need; I'll just keep using it every day and will think about upgrading in another couple years." Living a healthy live generally does NOT mean "Hrm, these plain chocolate chip cookies taste fine; I'll just keep eating them every day and will think about adding sugar glaze and sprinkles in another couple years."

Just as we can't look at a person and immediately know their financial health, neither can we know their physical health. Personally, I'm a bit overweight. I drink too many sodas and eat too many sweets (and non-sweets too). I rarely drink alcohol (occasional mixed drink is ok, never had a sip of beer), I don't smoke, I don't do drugs. Am I less healthy than the skinny person who smokes five packs a day and drinks like a fish? Probably not, but at a quick glance you'd give a thumbs up to the 30yr old chain-smoker, and mutter something about willpower to me.
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: MrsK on November 04, 2014, 03:10:34 PM
As a French women, living now in America, I am fascinated by this thread.  I love the saying "Live below your means and within your seams." I think the MMM movement is about both.  I also think my lovely, wonderful, American friends, that so many of you have too much guilt and shame issues about food.  Interestingly, both those claiming to have trouble losing weight and the super-fit people giving them advice here--you all seem to make food the enemy, something to be controlled and have rigid rules around.  Calories to count, fitness plans . . . this all seems to take the joy out of the 3 times a day you get to sit, relax and savor your meal.

For me, the goal is not to be thin or even particularly healthy, but to enjoy.  If you are on a budget and are biking or walking to do your errands and you take time to cook and you look at meal time as sacred, then you should be able to both live below your means and within your seams.  And don't forget the wine!

Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: Cpa Cat on November 04, 2014, 03:30:47 PM
Now, try to have a no-eat November. I challenge all of you. It's just a matter of willpower, isn't it? Yes yes, we actually spent some money in no-spend November above...you can have a (small) plate of rice and beans for lunch every Friday. And all the water you can drink. Even if you survive no-eat November...I can almost guarantee it's going to be a LOT harder, and a lot less comfortable, than the no-spend version.

I don't mean to nitpick, but wouldn't a fairer comparison be "No snack November" or "Eat only from your Pantry/Freezer November"? In No spend November, you were allowed to cover the basics, after all.

I've tried a no snack month. It's hard. Probably as hard as going cold turkey on your spending. It's mostly hard because if you're used to snacking, you don't really think about making sure your breakfast/lunch/dinner is healthy, enjoyable, and keeps you un-starving. It works better if you're allowed snacks, but only specific ones (celery, an apple, etc) and you simply don't buy anything else.

But cutting out the snacks one by one? That's a lot easier. There's a hurdle point where you really want that donut or that soda - but go a month without one, and you're pretty much done with it.

You make it sound like giving up Starbucks is easy - but it really isn't any easier than giving up donuts or cookies. You're hooked on the caffeine and the ritual (same with being hooked on the sugar and the ritual/comfort). Same with smoking. If someone was making excuses about quitting smoking, we would just Face Punch them, no question. There's no sympathy about smoking. But it's not as if quitting smoking is easy. If someone was making excuses about being an alcoholic, we wouldn't say, "Oh, it's ok - you have kids, so it's hard not be drunk all the time." And yet you can actually die from alcohol withdrawal. No one dies from sugar withdrawal.

Point being - it's hard to give up junk food. But no harder than anything else people give up.
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: NumberJohnny5 on November 04, 2014, 05:11:53 PM
You make it sound like giving up Starbucks is easy

Actually, I said giving up on buying Starbucks coffee at Starbucks, and buying Starbucks coffee at the grocery store, was easy.

And yet you can actually die from alcohol withdrawal. No one dies from sugar withdrawal.

People die from going on diets. I don't know percentages, I'll readily believe more people die from alcohol withdrawal than from cookie withdrawal.

Point being - it's hard to give up junk food. But no harder than anything else people give up.

That's my point...junk food (and other things like smoking, drinking, doing drugs) can be harder to give up than other things.

I can decide to not spend a single cent today, and my life today will look much as it did yesterday. I have food, I have shelter, I have entertainment, etc. If I give up sweets today, my life will be a bit different than it was yesterday.

You can have a nice house, nice phone, nice car, nice etc. etc., and be frugal. Just don't buy a new car every 3-5 years, don't upgrade your phone every 6-12 months, etc. Using the same type of smartphone now that you used way back in 2013 is not a huge sacrifice. It's really not a sacrifice at all. Same with driving a nice, comfortable, reliable car. Toyota made nice cars back in 2008, nice smooth ride, fairly safe, a/c and heat, etc. You don't have to buy a 2015 car to get all that.

But if we use the same analogy for food, that'd be like saying "Hey, I'm doing good for still eating the same kind of oreos I did last year. Maybe in a few years I can upgrade to the double-stuffed chocolate-coated ones. And yeah, the pancakes with loads of butter and syrup are still mighty tasty; I think I'll wait another year before upgrading to the chocolate chip pancakes with whipped cream and chocolate syrup."

A whole lot of MMM (perhaps even a majority) is simply optimizing. Why pay $100/mo for lots of TV when you can pay under $10? Why pay $100/mo for a mobile phone plan with data when you can pay $15? Why pay $500/mo for a car payment when the "old" one works perfectly fine? It's hard to "optimize" the sugar out of your diet without noticing.

BTW, I'm not saying it's impossible. Not even saying it's not simple. Rather, that it may not be that easy.

BTW #2, the simplest analogy I could come up with that'd equate eating less sugar to the MMM philosophy, would be to replace sugar with artificial sweeteners. That fails for a number of reasons though.
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: justajane on November 04, 2014, 08:16:30 PM
As a French women, living now in America, I am fascinated by this thread.  I love the saying "Live below your means and within your seams." I think the MMM movement is about both.  I also think my lovely, wonderful, American friends, that so many of you have too much guilt and shame issues about food.  Interestingly, both those claiming to have trouble losing weight and the super-fit people giving them advice here--you all seem to make food the enemy, something to be controlled and have rigid rules around.  Calories to count, fitness plans . . . this all seems to take the joy out of the 3 times a day you get to sit, relax and savor your meal.

For me, the goal is not to be thin or even particularly healthy, but to enjoy.  If you are on a budget and are biking or walking to do your errands and you take time to cook and you look at meal time as sacred, then you should be able to both live below your means and within your seams.  And don't forget the wine!

This is a great outside perspective. Thanks! I appreciate hearing from someone from the outside looking in. Your point about food being the enemy and the joylessness of food is spot on. 
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: mm1970 on November 04, 2014, 10:15:37 PM
People can make all the excuses they want for being overweight. Physiology is only a small part of it. What percentage of people were overweight/obese 40 years ago as opposed to today? Do genetics change that much in 40 years where 70% of the AMERICAN population suddenly has the "fat, malfunctioning thyroid gene"? I think not. I'm not "fat shaming" anybody. I just think it is selfish and unfair for the fit/healthy people to have to pay higher medical premiums as a result of all the health issues from the 70%(which, in most cases, is preventable).

I dropped 50 pounds about two years ago. Do I still eat junk food? Yes. Do I still drink alcohol? Yes. What's different? I started exercising, cut out the soda and cut back on the alcohol and junk food. Everything in moderation.
My grandma was, so was my dad, and still is, age 77, btw, on no prescription drugs at all. its your anecdotal evidence against mine.  Absolutely, eating junk and not exercising will make almost anyone fat. Bit it will make some people obese, some only modestly overweight. Some of us have to make a job of staying on top of our weight. That is the problem.  Life gets in the way. I am not obese, but that is because I have spent half of my waking hours working out, preparing food, reading up on nutrition and fitness. What a drain on time.

Most common excuse I hear. Life is almost always in the way. I work 65 hours a week and I still find the time to exercise and eat properly. Time devoted to fitness/nutrition is an investment against a future of crushing medical bills and doctor visits. It is inevitable that your poor health will also "get in the way" if you're not willing to put forth the effort.
"Time devoted to fitness/nutrition" does not guarantee you won't be overweight.

You can put in the time, and the effort, and still be fat.  I hate the assumption that you can tell, just by looking at someone, whether or not they put in the time.

Just because you can do it, everyone can?  Even when I was working 50-60 hours a week - it was a LOT easier to spend my spare time cooking, eating healthfully, and working out, because I didn't have kids.  I could go lift with my husband, run on my lunch break, shop for and cook healthy exciting meals.  I didn't spend every spare waking minute coloring, changing diapers, feeding small children, doing 3rd grade homework.  My "free time" to work out is an occasional walk to the park with the kids to play.  Sometimes a workout DVD in the morning, but only before they wake up.  (Which was at 4:57 am today).

I still exercise many hours a week - I squeeze it in.  But it's a LOT harder with small children than people without children realize.

Sounds like more excuses to me. I can't count how many times I've heard the "I've got kids" excuse.
Probably because it's true?  And maybe you don't have kids?

The choice is sleep or exercise.  Sleep, or plan meals.  4:20 am wakeup today from the toddler, and boy the alarm was already set for 4:50 am and I REALLY wanted those extra 30 minutes.  Oh, I went to the gym, and swam anyway, and in fact did my 30 laps faster than ever before.  When my friends with small kids would tell me they couldn't exercise (and I also had a child), I pointed out to them that I was choosing exercise over sleep and was, in fact, getting 2 fewer hours of sleep a day than they were.  You know what?  They started exercising.  But at some point you get diminishing returns. If you are talking 7.5 hours instead of 9.5, then okay.  If you are talking 6 instead of 8, that's an entirely different ballgame.  And if they aren't continuous?  Ouch.

If I don't sleep, I get sick - every single sniffle, flu, or anything that someone from work or one of the kids brings home, I get it, and go down hard.  So about a year ago, I had to make sleep a priority.  If things are great, kids are healthy, I'm sleeping, kids aren't waking me up at night, husband not traveling no problem. I  wake up at 5 am and work out.

If husband is traveling or I'm not sleeping, or I'm exhausted because I've up for 2 hours in the middle of the night, I can't get up to exercise.  Just can't.

But if you've  never been there, you can't judge. 

If you'd like to judge for yourself, you can set your alarm for 1:30 am, stay awake for two hours, go back to sleep, wake up at 5:30 or 6 am, go to work, and then borrow someone else's kids when you get home, until 9 pm.  Every night. Do their  homework, play, give them baths, cook them a healthy meal, do the dishes, pack their lunches.

I never said it was impossible, just difficult, and exhausting. 
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: mm1970 on November 04, 2014, 10:20:38 PM
Quote
Now, try to have a no-eat November. I challenge all of you. It's just a matter of willpower, isn't it? Yes yes, we actually spent some money in no-spend November above...you can have a (small) plate of rice and beans for lunch every Friday. And all the water you can drink. Even if you survive no-eat November...I can almost guarantee it's going to be a LOT harder, and a lot less comfortable, than the no-spend version.
This was funny - I think you were trying to be funny/sarcastic?

Because I joke that I'm doing a NO-vember.
NO-alcohol
NO-sugar (mostly, I won't sweat it if there's some sugar in my marinara sauce)
NO-bread (or pasta, or crackers, or wheat tortillas)
NO-fried foods (which eliminates most salty snacks - I don't eat out much, so that part's not a challenge)

aka NO fun.

But honestly, it shouldn't be terribly hard - these foods were not a big part of my diet anyway.  Maybe a glass of wine or two on the weekend, a couple slices of bread a week, a little chocolate twice a month.
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: Cpa Cat on November 05, 2014, 09:01:35 AM
Quote
It's hard to "optimize" the sugar out of your diet without noticing.

I guess I just disagree with this. These forums are filled with people whose knee jerk reaction to giving something up is, "OH NO I CAN'T!" Be it cable or a car or an IPhone. I mean... most people are going to notice a change in their life when they go car-free! And spouses regularly go TOTALLY INSANE at the mere suggestion from their Mustachian partner that they give up their IPhone.


It's only after we make any of these changes that we say, "Ok, that really didn't matter. Nothing is truly different - or if it is, it's better." You need that change to be history before you can truly gain perspective on it.

I think what makes it harder is the opportunity to cheat. If I give up my car, there's really not much I can do to cheat on that decision other than go buy a new car! I'd have to actually call up the cable/phone company and reinstate cable/data plan once that's cut.

But cookies? People bring them to work! Donuts? I pass two donut shops on the way home every day! Candy? It's right there in the grocery store, every single week! Heck, during busy season at my firm, they pretty much main line junk food directly into my stomach while I sit at my desk 70-80 hours a week. It's not just one decision, it's an every day decision. But every day the decision gets just a tiny bit easier.

That puts it up with alcoholism and smoking. But we're a lot less willing to give excuses for those two than we are over our eating habits. I don't know why we're so willing to put unhealthy food on a pedestal.
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: Public Hermit on November 05, 2014, 11:02:29 AM
People can make all the excuses they want for being overweight. Physiology is only a small part of it. What percentage of people were overweight/obese 40 years ago as opposed to today? Do genetics change that much in 40 years where 70% of the AMERICAN population suddenly has the "fat, malfunctioning thyroid gene"? I think not. I'm not "fat shaming" anybody. I just think it is selfish and unfair for the fit/healthy people to have to pay higher medical premiums as a result of all the health issues from the 70%(which, in most cases, is preventable).

I dropped 50 pounds about two years ago. Do I still eat junk food? Yes. Do I still drink alcohol? Yes. What's different? I started exercising, cut out the soda and cut back on the alcohol and junk food. Everything in moderation.
My grandma was, so was my dad, and still is, age 77, btw, on no prescription drugs at all. its your anecdotal evidence against mine.  Absolutely, eating junk and not exercising will make almost anyone fat. Bit it will make some people obese, some only modestly overweight. Some of us have to make a job of staying on top of our weight. That is the problem.  Life gets in the way. I am not obese, but that is because I have spent half of my waking hours working out, preparing food, reading up on nutrition and fitness. What a drain on time.

Most common excuse I hear. Life is almost always in the way. I work 65 hours a week and I still find the time to exercise and eat properly. Time devoted to fitness/nutrition is an investment against a future of crushing medical bills and doctor visits. It is inevitable that your poor health will also "get in the way" if you're not willing to put forth the effort.
"Time devoted to fitness/nutrition" does not guarantee you won't be overweight.

You can put in the time, and the effort, and still be fat.  I hate the assumption that you can tell, just by looking at someone, whether or not they put in the time.

Just because you can do it, everyone can?  Even when I was working 50-60 hours a week - it was a LOT easier to spend my spare time cooking, eating healthfully, and working out, because I didn't have kids.  I could go lift with my husband, run on my lunch break, shop for and cook healthy exciting meals.  I didn't spend every spare waking minute coloring, changing diapers, feeding small children, doing 3rd grade homework.  My "free time" to work out is an occasional walk to the park with the kids to play.  Sometimes a workout DVD in the morning, but only before they wake up.  (Which was at 4:57 am today).

I still exercise many hours a week - I squeeze it in.  But it's a LOT harder with small children than people without children realize.

Sounds like more excuses to me. I can't count how many times I've heard the "I've got kids" excuse.
Probably because it's true?  And maybe you don't have kids?

The choice is sleep or exercise.  Sleep, or plan meals.  4:20 am wakeup today from the toddler, and boy the alarm was already set for 4:50 am and I REALLY wanted those extra 30 minutes.  Oh, I went to the gym, and swam anyway, and in fact did my 30 laps faster than ever before.  When my friends with small kids would tell me they couldn't exercise (and I also had a child), I pointed out to them that I was choosing exercise over sleep and was, in fact, getting 2 fewer hours of sleep a day than they were.  You know what?  They started exercising.  But at some point you get diminishing returns. If you are talking 7.5 hours instead of 9.5, then okay.  If you are talking 6 instead of 8, that's an entirely different ballgame.  And if they aren't continuous?  Ouch.

If I don't sleep, I get sick - every single sniffle, flu, or anything that someone from work or one of the kids brings home, I get it, and go down hard.  So about a year ago, I had to make sleep a priority.  If things are great, kids are healthy, I'm sleeping, kids aren't waking me up at night, husband not traveling no problem. I  wake up at 5 am and work out.

If husband is traveling or I'm not sleeping, or I'm exhausted because I've up for 2 hours in the middle of the night, I can't get up to exercise.  Just can't.

But if you've  never been there, you can't judge. 

If you'd like to judge for yourself, you can set your alarm for 1:30 am, stay awake for two hours, go back to sleep, wake up at 5:30 or 6 am, go to work, and then borrow someone else's kids when you get home, until 9 pm.  Every night. Do their  homework, play, give them baths, cook them a healthy meal, do the dishes, pack their lunches.

I never said it was impossible, just difficult, and exhausting.

The most defensive are often the most guilty. I've witnessed your knee-jerk responses the entire thread. Not sure why you felt the need to justify your weight issues with an elaborate story about your lifestyle. Please do go on....this is quite entertaining. Let me guess, its your Thyroid's fault....

You mentioned you "walk" on your lunch break for 30 minutes each day in addition to swimming and weight lifting 2x a week. Weights are good, swimming is better, but walking? I don't understand people that say they "walk" every day but complain that they're not losing weight. You need more moderate/high intensity cardio. Interval training is recommended as you get older. Walking is going to do little or nothing to aid in weight loss. I'll agree walking will do some good for your cardiovascular health, but it will not shred fat. You mentioned your joints hurt, so running must be out for you. Ellipticals are low-impact and great for intervals.

I also find it disturbing that you associate fried foods, bread, and sugar with "fun". That alone says a lot more about you than anything else. Me thinks you're not telling us the entire story. I'm not fat shaming anyone. Most of these overweight people bring up the subject on their own volition while vomiting bullshit excuses to make themselves feel better. Interestingly enough, they initiate the subject WITHOUT provocation, claiming a victim mentality 99% of the time while expecting compassion & empathy from everyone else.

I do find your indirect advice about not having kids valuable though, even though I don't plan to reproduce, ever. Because, evidently, kids make people fat.

Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: frugalnacho on November 05, 2014, 11:13:49 AM
I ate 6 pieces of chocolate Halloween candy today. 
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: golden1 on November 05, 2014, 11:21:00 AM
Quote
The most defensive are often the most guilty. I've witnessed your knee-jerk responses the entire thread. Not sure why you felt the need to justify your weight issues with an elaborate story about your lifestyle. Please do go on....this is quite entertaining. Let me guess, its your Thyroid's fault....

You mentioned you "walk" on your lunch break for 30 minutes each day in addition to swimming and weight lifting 2x a week. Weights are good, swimming is better, but walking? I don't understand people that say they "walk" every day but complain that they're not losing weight. You need more moderate/high intensity cardio. Interval training is recommended as you get older. Walking is going to do little or nothing to aid in weight loss. I'll agree walking will do some good for your cardiovascular health, but it will not shred fat. You mentioned your joints hurt, so running must be out for you. Ellipticals are low-impact and great for intervals.

I also find it disturbing that you associate fried foods, bread, and sugar with "fun". That alone says a lot more about you than anything else. Me thinks you're not telling us the entire story. I'm not fat shaming anyone. Most of these overweight people bring up the subject on their own volition while vomiting bullshit excuses to make themselves feel better. Interestingly enough, they initiate the subject WITHOUT provocation, claiming a victim mentality 99% of the time while expecting compassion & empathy from everyone else.

I do find your indirect advice about not having kids valuable though, even though I don't plan to reproduce, ever. Because, evidently, kids make people fat.

Have you read any of her other responses?  She is eating a very low calorie diet, and has lost 20 lbs doing it.  She is not making excuses; she is trying to explain why it is difficult sometimes when you have time constraints, you get older, or you have other life issues. 

And you are fat shaming.  The drivel you just typed is exactly what fat-shaming is.  And it is completely ineffective and counter-productive.  When I read statements like that, I see someone who is making someone else feel like shit so they can feel better.  Congratulations.  Hope it feels good.     
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: infogoon on November 05, 2014, 11:27:53 AM
I'm not fat shaming anyone. Most of these overweight people bring up the subject on their own volition while vomiting bullshit excuses to make themselves feel better.

Well, it's a good thing you're not shaming anyone.
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: frugalnacho on November 05, 2014, 11:40:24 AM
I ate 6 pieces of chocolate Halloween candy today.

That's because you're a fatty fat fat with no self control.
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: 4alpacas on November 05, 2014, 11:41:58 AM
I ate 6 pieces of chocolate Halloween candy today.
HOW DO YOU HAVE HALLOWEEN CANDY?!!??!?!?  I ate the last of mine on Monday. 
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: justajane on November 05, 2014, 11:57:53 AM
Public Hermit - I've witnessed your tone deaf responses the entire thread. Not sure why you feel the need to continue to beat up on mm1970. Please do not go on....it is not entertaining.
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: waltworks on November 05, 2014, 12:02:47 PM
Strategic purchasing. You wouldn't want to run out and disappoint the kids, would you? Better get 10# of tootie rolls, just to be safe.

-W

I ate 6 pieces of chocolate Halloween candy today.
HOW DO YOU HAVE HALLOWEEN CANDY?!!??!?!?  I ate the last of mine on Monday.
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: 4alpacas on November 05, 2014, 12:14:00 PM
Strategic purchasing. You wouldn't want to run out and disappoint the kids, would you? Better get 10# of tootie rolls, just to be safe.

-W

I ate 6 pieces of chocolate Halloween candy today.
HOW DO YOU HAVE HALLOWEEN CANDY?!!??!?!?  I ate the last of mine on Monday.
I've been doing Halloween all wrong. 
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: mm1970 on November 05, 2014, 12:19:37 PM
People can make all the excuses they want for being overweight. Physiology is only a small part of it. What percentage of people were overweight/obese 40 years ago as opposed to today? Do genetics change that much in 40 years where 70% of the AMERICAN population suddenly has the "fat, malfunctioning thyroid gene"? I think not. I'm not "fat shaming" anybody. I just think it is selfish and unfair for the fit/healthy people to have to pay higher medical premiums as a result of all the health issues from the 70%(which, in most cases, is preventable).

I dropped 50 pounds about two years ago. Do I still eat junk food? Yes. Do I still drink alcohol? Yes. What's different? I started exercising, cut out the soda and cut back on the alcohol and junk food. Everything in moderation.
My grandma was, so was my dad, and still is, age 77, btw, on no prescription drugs at all. its your anecdotal evidence against mine.  Absolutely, eating junk and not exercising will make almost anyone fat. Bit it will make some people obese, some only modestly overweight. Some of us have to make a job of staying on top of our weight. That is the problem.  Life gets in the way. I am not obese, but that is because I have spent half of my waking hours working out, preparing food, reading up on nutrition and fitness. What a drain on time.

Most common excuse I hear. Life is almost always in the way. I work 65 hours a week and I still find the time to exercise and eat properly. Time devoted to fitness/nutrition is an investment against a future of crushing medical bills and doctor visits. It is inevitable that your poor health will also "get in the way" if you're not willing to put forth the effort.
"Time devoted to fitness/nutrition" does not guarantee you won't be overweight.

You can put in the time, and the effort, and still be fat.  I hate the assumption that you can tell, just by looking at someone, whether or not they put in the time.

Just because you can do it, everyone can?  Even when I was working 50-60 hours a week - it was a LOT easier to spend my spare time cooking, eating healthfully, and working out, because I didn't have kids.  I could go lift with my husband, run on my lunch break, shop for and cook healthy exciting meals.  I didn't spend every spare waking minute coloring, changing diapers, feeding small children, doing 3rd grade homework.  My "free time" to work out is an occasional walk to the park with the kids to play.  Sometimes a workout DVD in the morning, but only before they wake up.  (Which was at 4:57 am today).

I still exercise many hours a week - I squeeze it in.  But it's a LOT harder with small children than people without children realize.

Sounds like more excuses to me. I can't count how many times I've heard the "I've got kids" excuse.
Probably because it's true?  And maybe you don't have kids?

The choice is sleep or exercise.  Sleep, or plan meals.  4:20 am wakeup today from the toddler, and boy the alarm was already set for 4:50 am and I REALLY wanted those extra 30 minutes.  Oh, I went to the gym, and swam anyway, and in fact did my 30 laps faster than ever before.  When my friends with small kids would tell me they couldn't exercise (and I also had a child), I pointed out to them that I was choosing exercise over sleep and was, in fact, getting 2 fewer hours of sleep a day than they were.  You know what?  They started exercising.  But at some point you get diminishing returns. If you are talking 7.5 hours instead of 9.5, then okay.  If you are talking 6 instead of 8, that's an entirely different ballgame.  And if they aren't continuous?  Ouch.

If I don't sleep, I get sick - every single sniffle, flu, or anything that someone from work or one of the kids brings home, I get it, and go down hard.  So about a year ago, I had to make sleep a priority.  If things are great, kids are healthy, I'm sleeping, kids aren't waking me up at night, husband not traveling no problem. I  wake up at 5 am and work out.

If husband is traveling or I'm not sleeping, or I'm exhausted because I've up for 2 hours in the middle of the night, I can't get up to exercise.  Just can't.

But if you've  never been there, you can't judge. 

If you'd like to judge for yourself, you can set your alarm for 1:30 am, stay awake for two hours, go back to sleep, wake up at 5:30 or 6 am, go to work, and then borrow someone else's kids when you get home, until 9 pm.  Every night. Do their  homework, play, give them baths, cook them a healthy meal, do the dishes, pack their lunches.

I never said it was impossible, just difficult, and exhausting.

The most defensive are often the most guilty. I've witnessed your knee-jerk responses the entire thread. Not sure why you felt the need to justify your weight issues with an elaborate story about your lifestyle. Please do go on....this is quite entertaining. Let me guess, its your Thyroid's fault....

You mentioned you "walk" on your lunch break for 30 minutes each day in addition to swimming and weight lifting 2x a week. Weights are good, swimming is better, but walking? I don't understand people that say they "walk" every day but complain that they're not losing weight. You need more moderate/high intensity cardio. Interval training is recommended as you get older. Walking is going to do little or nothing to aid in weight loss. I'll agree walking will do some good for your cardiovascular health, but it will not shred fat. You mentioned your joints hurt, so running must be out for you. Ellipticals are low-impact and great for intervals.

I also find it disturbing that you associate fried foods, bread, and sugar with "fun". That alone says a lot more about you than anything else. Me thinks you're not telling us the entire story. I'm not fat shaming anyone. Most of these overweight people bring up the subject on their own volition while vomiting bullshit excuses to make themselves feel better. Interestingly enough, they initiate the subject WITHOUT provocation, claiming a victim mentality 99% of the time while expecting compassion & empathy from everyone else.

I do find your indirect advice about not having kids valuable though, even though I don't plan to reproduce, ever. Because, evidently, kids make people fat.
No, kids don't necessarily make you fat.  Well, if you are the woman who gets pregnant, they do.  What they do is suck up time, time that can't be spent doing other things.  Those years, however, are fairly short.  By the age of 4, you start the "sweet spot".  They are potty trained, can play independently for awhile, find it "fun" to exercise with you - my older son, at 4, would do P90X videos with me.  Now that he's 8, he's joined me in my 30-day November burpee challenge (though I'm pretty sure he'll give up before the end of the month when we hit 100).

But younger children are a drain and a time-suck.  It's no surprise that it's difficult to lose weight when you are stressed or not sleeping - there are honest, actual links with weight and those things called hormones, which are affected by stress.  I think maybe my friends who had 2 kids, 2 years apart, were certainly pretty smart.  And my friends who had kids in their 20's were pretty smart too (I wouldn't change anything for the world). 

When I was training for my half marathons, I found it pretty fascinating how FAST women in their late 30's and early 40's were.  I'm not particularly fast, not built really for distance - I was happy to hit a 10-minute mile for a half.  But then I started realizing that *most* of the women runners I know - at age 40 their kids are teens, so they finally have free time.  They don't need to pay babysitters, and heck they can get their teens training with them!  It was somewhat frustrating too because I ran a few races where I would have "placed" in any age group but my own.  40 year old women are fast, dangit!!

The problem I see here is some people take "explanation" as "being whiny or guilty".  False.  It goes back to something I said on a different thread.  There is optimism, pessimism, and realism. 
Pessimism is "I'm always going to be fat, and never lose weight because of X (genetics, nothing works, etc.)"  I remember feeling that way in my early 30's.  I "ate healthy" and "exercised regularly" and was still obese.  But then weight watchers "I'll try it, it won't work, but whatever", and it worked like a charm - because I educated myself on exercise, and calories, and healthy food.  Lost 57 pounds.  Then after, when I would read or hear people say the same thing, I thought two things "1. Oh, I totally understand where you are coming from, I've been there", and "2. You can do it!!"  So there is your optimism.

The optimism comes in when you do it anyway, and figure - well, at least I'll be healthier, right?  Of course what a "healthy" diet is debated by everyone from IIFYM, to Paleo, to vegan, to Primal, to ... fill in the blanks.  But I think that most people agree that vegetables are good for you.  It's everything else (meat, butter, beans, bread, carbs) that spark a disagreement.

The realism comes in when things change.  I lost 57 pounds in 4-5 months when I was 31.  When my first child was 20 months old, I took it as a part time job to lose the baby weight.  I lost 20 pounds in 3 months.

Well, fast forward 7 years, and it just doesn't come off like it used to.  And that's realism.  I've lost 20 pounds in 10 months - 3 times longer than 7 years ago. 

And you say that I need "high intensity cardio" - but other people say no, chronic cardio is the problem, you need weight training.  See, nobody agrees on what people need.
The realism comes in with what I have to deal with right now.
I try and swim 2-3x a week, for 45 minutes.  That's my "me" time.  But the realism is - I have to split gym days with my husband, so he gets 3 mornings, and I get 3 mornings.
I like to exercise at lunch.  5 years ago, it was running - realism comes in two-fold now.  First, I only have a 30 minute lunch break, so not enough time to change, run, shower, and get back to work.  Second, joint injuries that do not allow me to run.  I miss running - both for the fitness and for the relaxation benefits.  I walk instead because it's something I can DO at lunch.  Get away from the desk, de-stress, get some sun, and get some exercise to boot.  Before the knee injury I was doing biking or elliptical for intervals, but even those can give my knee a flare up.
I prefer to get up on my husband's gym days and work out in the morning, but since the time change, the 2 year old is up at the crack of 4:30 am.  Which means, no workout.  He won't let me.  Literally. 
I could, if I chose, work out after work and before dinner.  Pick up toddler at 5, school kid at 5:20, get to the YMCA at 5:40, put them in childcare (throw them a granola bar in the car), workout for 45 minutes or so, get home at 6:40 pm, cook dinner, have dinner at 7:35 pm, put the kids to bed at 8 pm.  That seems...I dunno...kind of wrong, so I don't do it.
I work out with the hours that I have, and with what my body lets me do.  I wish I could go back to part time (32 hours).  That freed up a lot more time for exercise.  But my boss said no.

But I'm kind of used to people like you.  I once had a boss who was a bit of an expert on different personality types.  Everyone is a blend of personality types, but everyone has a dominant trait.  And when under times of stress, the dominant trait takes over.  Well, I'm an engineer and I work with a bunch of PhDs.  Nearly every PhD in my company has a dominant trait that their default failure mode is "be perfect".  That's what I see here.  Clearly, if things are going the way you want, you have to "be perfect".  And if you aren't perfect, you are a failure.  And if you ARE perfect, well clearly you are lying about it.  (Like the people who get sick on a vegan diet "you clearly aren't doing it right!!")  My company President is like this.  When something goes wrong, he simply wants to blame someone - anyone.

He doesn't care WHY it happened, he doesn't care to hear HOW we can make it better.  He only wants to place blame.  He has called me in his office to chat about "things" that went wrong (that I was not personally involved in).  When I've tried to make recommendations on how to fix them I'm told "I don't care about the details".  Aka, I am going to judge you for failure, but I really don't care if you are doing everything right or not.

The descriptions here are intended to explain the nuances of the body, and life, and hormones, and balancing X,Y,Z.  Some people prefer black and white and non nuance.  They haven't yet experienced it, or realized the fact that two people can do the same thing and get different results.  These kinds of things fascinate me.  My one coworker is looking great these days, and we were chatting.  She said "well, it took me 2 years to lose 20 lbs, and it didn't happen until my youngest was about 4.  You don't realize how stress and sleep affect your weight.  It's terrible."

It comes down to experience, and empathy.  If you've never experienced it, then you cannot understand.  But don't expect anyone to respect your judgment if you really don't know what you are talking about.

As far as associating those foods as "fun" - that was a joke about the SAD (standard American diet).  Most people would consider bread, alcohol, sugar, fried foods as "enjoyable" (and in fact, science backs this up).  And apparently, somewhere else in this thread, a Frenchwoman backs this up too.  Man, one meal a week with a glass of red wine, a slice of fresh bread with bruschetta, followed by a small piece of dark chocolate?  That would be heaven. 

I haven't had my thyroid checked lately, maybe I should do that at my next Doctor's appointment (apparently my cousin had an issue with this recently).  But since I've actually been losing weight (albeit slowly), I don't think I have an issue.  I guess I was just hoping for faster results.  I wasn't expecting my 37-year old results of 20 lbs in 3 months, but I was hoping for 20 lbs in 6 months.  Instead, it took 10, and I still would like to lose 10-15 pounds.  15 might be pushing it though.  Things shift after having a baby.
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: frugalnacho on November 05, 2014, 12:25:36 PM
I ate 6 pieces of chocolate Halloween candy today.
HOW DO YOU HAVE HALLOWEEN CANDY?!!??!?!?  I ate the last of mine on Monday.

Costco membership + cold spell + rain = perfect storm for candy surplus.
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: mm1970 on November 05, 2014, 12:26:41 PM
I ate 6 pieces of chocolate Halloween candy today.
Ha!  We have this deal with our son that he can keep 1 piece of candy per year of his age (he's 8).  The rest we buy back from him.  Mostly, I don't want to rot his teeth, and too much candy is not good for you.

The 2 year old is too young to understand that deal, he just went for his first time.

So my husband bought 4 bags of chocolate candy (MMs and Reese's - my faves), even though by the time we get home, we NEVER have trick or treaters.

Anyway, I've been doling it out.  Monday I brought an unopened bag of MMs to work (the mini bags).  Tuesday I brought a bag with the kids' leftovers for the night shift and Reese's for the day shift.
Today I brought the last two bags.

Hey, if I can't lose weight I can make everyone else fat, eh?  Just kidding.  I don't like having it in the house. 

I find that the holidays are a slippery slope. It's almost easier to just give up everything, so you don't do a gradual slide.  Halloween candy, Thanksgiving pie and stuffing and gravy, company holiday parties with wine, dessert, fried foods, Christmas cookies, New Year's champagne. 
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: MandalayVA on November 05, 2014, 12:31:09 PM
I ate 6 pieces of chocolate Halloween candy today.
HOW DO YOU HAVE HALLOWEEN CANDY?!!??!?!?  I ate the last of mine on Monday.

HOW DID ANY OF YOU HAVE HALLOWEEN CANDY LEFT OVER?!?!?!?!?!?!  I blew through over 450 pieces Friday night and could have given out more if I'd bought it. 

Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: 4alpacas on November 05, 2014, 12:40:30 PM
I'm still interested in the Halloween candy talk.  frugalnacho, how much extra candy are we talking about? 

Also, DOES EVERYONE HAVE A COSTCO MEMBERSHIP EXCEPT ME?! 

The lines at the two closest Costco (to get into the store) wrap around the building on the weekends.  I'm also really lazy and stick to one grocery store (and get my groceries delivered).  However, I keep hearing about the magic inside Costco. 

get home at 6:40 pm, cook dinner, have dinner at 7:35 pm
I can definitely understand why you're tired.  I can't imagine spending an hour/day cooking dinner after working a full day.  Maybe you should look into ways to cut down on your prep/cook time.  I'm a huge fan of bulk cooking on the weekends.  My DH will toss something into the microwave if he gets home first.  Home-cooked food for 5 minutes of effort. 
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: frugalnacho on November 05, 2014, 12:51:23 PM
I'm still interested in the Halloween candy talk.  frugalnacho, how much extra candy are we talking about? 

Also, DOES EVERYONE HAVE A COSTCO MEMBERSHIP EXCEPT ME?! 

The lines at the two closest Costco (to get into the store) wrap around the building on the weekends.  I'm also really lazy and stick to one grocery store (and get my groceries delivered).  However, I keep hearing about the magic inside Costco. 

get home at 6:40 pm, cook dinner, have dinner at 7:35 pm
I can definitely understand why you're tired.  I can't imagine spending an hour/day cooking dinner after working a full day.  Maybe you should look into ways to cut down on your prep/cook time.  I'm a huge fan of bulk cooking on the weekends.  My DH will toss something into the microwave if he gets home first.  Home-cooked food for 5 minutes of effort.

We bought a large bag of the fun sized assortments.  Had over half of it left.  Wife didn't think it was healthy to keep around the house so I said I would take it to work and distribute to my coworkers.  I did, but also secretly ate a ton of it.

Yea, costco is pretty cool.  High quality food I find.  We buy all our meat from costco because it is head and shoulders above any other place we might shop (kroger, meijer, walmart)
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: dragoncar on November 05, 2014, 02:18:50 PM
As a French women, living now in America, I am fascinated by this thread.  I love the saying "Live below your means and within your seams." I think the MMM movement is about both.  I also think my lovely, wonderful, American friends, that so many of you have too much guilt and shame issues about food.  Interestingly, both those claiming to have trouble losing weight and the super-fit people giving them advice here--you all seem to make food the enemy, something to be controlled and have rigid rules around.  Calories to count, fitness plans . . . this all seems to take the joy out of the 3 times a day you get to sit, relax and savor your meal.

For me, the goal is not to be thin or even particularly healthy, but to enjoy.  If you are on a budget and are biking or walking to do your errands and you take time to cook and you look at meal time as sacred, then you should be able to both live below your means and within your seams.  And don't forget the wine!

Unfortunately, this kind of mindless enjoyment makes me plump
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: GuitarStv on November 06, 2014, 06:41:44 AM
I ate 6 pieces of chocolate Halloween candy today.
HOW DO YOU HAVE HALLOWEEN CANDY?!!??!?!?  I ate the last of mine on Monday.

Costco membership + cold spell + rain = perfect storm for candy surplus.

Yeah, we had cold and rain as well.  Our usual 120 - 130 kids coming by the door ended up only being about 40 this year.  That translates into a lot of leftover candy for us.
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: dragoncar on November 06, 2014, 08:58:47 AM
I ate 6 pieces of chocolate Halloween candy today.
HOW DO YOU HAVE HALLOWEEN CANDY?!!??!?!?  I ate the last of mine on Monday.

Costco membership + cold spell + rain = perfect storm for candy surplus.

You may not want to hear this, but you can return leftover candy to Costco... I saw a lady return half a tub of lettuce the other day.  Actually I wish I had returned my tub of lettuce too, since it got slimy too fast
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: Cinder on November 06, 2014, 04:26:10 PM
Saw this today, thought of this thread...

http://theoatmeal.com/comics/dieting_pie_chart
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: mm1970 on November 06, 2014, 06:34:10 PM
I'm still interested in the Halloween candy talk.  frugalnacho, how much extra candy are we talking about? 

Also, DOES EVERYONE HAVE A COSTCO MEMBERSHIP EXCEPT ME?! 

The lines at the two closest Costco (to get into the store) wrap around the building on the weekends.  I'm also really lazy and stick to one grocery store (and get my groceries delivered).  However, I keep hearing about the magic inside Costco. 

get home at 6:40 pm, cook dinner, have dinner at 7:35 pm
I can definitely understand why you're tired.  I can't imagine spending an hour/day cooking dinner after working a full day.  Maybe you should look into ways to cut down on your prep/cook time.  I'm a huge fan of bulk cooking on the weekends.  My DH will toss something into the microwave if he gets home first.  Home-cooked food for 5 minutes of effort.

I usually spend about 30 minutes cooking dinner, not an hour, and only about half of it is "hands on".  Only because I bulk cook on the weekends.  Unfortunately, I run out of "bulk cooked" meals by about Wednesday, so I do have to cook Thursday and Friday.  That's because the bulk cooking also goes toward lunches.

That estimate of 45 minutes up there  - that includes getting the kids into the house from the car, putting the dishes in the drying rack away, washing kids' hands, getting them a glass of water, unloading my dirty lunch tupperware, changing a diaper, talking, giving snuggles and kisses, etc.  It generally takes me 30 to 45 minutes from when I walk in the door until dinner is on the table. (Heat up something leftover on the stove or in the oven and microwave a vegetable).

For the record, that's what it would be if I went to the gym after work - I don't.  I get home at 5:30 and we eat at 6:15.

This weekend I made a big pot of black bean soup, and a roasted potato/chard/onion frittata.  We ran out of the frittata on Tuesday and the soup for lunch today.  I also washed a large head of lettuce for salad (used the last today), hard boiled 6 eggs for the salad, washed, peeled, chopped about a pound of baby carrots from the CSA, a head of celery, and a cucumber.  I also diced and roasted a butternut squash and a few potatoes (those only lasted a meal and a half) and roasted a head of cauliflower (that lasted 3 meals).  I threw some chicken in the crockpot Tuesday at random.  We had that Tuesday with quick steam-fried broccoli and mushrooms (pre-chopped and sliced and cleaned from TJ's).  We are having the rest of the chicken tonight with steamed green beans and soup from the freezer.

Not sure about tomorrow though.  Probably veggie burger for me and frozen pizza for everyone else.  I have been cooking a lot of soup lately, so I have about 6 meals of soups that I should start to use up.  So that might be our veggie side.
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: The Resilent Dame on November 07, 2014, 08:04:55 AM
The same time/health tradeoff applies in the same way as money. It really is a very good analogy.

If you are working full time and have a young family, money is going to be harder to budget because of a lack of time to DIY, you pay more for convenience, etc.

The people who are successful at both understand that everything is a tradeoff. Obviously, some people are very good at sticking to health goals, eating well, and make that a priority. And they are unsuccessful at managing their money. And vice versa.

Just like with money, nobody comes from the same starting place with the ability to stay a healthy weight. Genes, how you were fed in early childhood, medical issues, are ALL similar obstacles one faces with money. Grew up poor, bad education, started off life making poor choices. Everything has long term effects.

I'm fairly thin and other than about 20 pounds of baby weight (that yes, were difficult to lose when the baby was young), so some people may look at me and think, "she's never had to work at it! No fair!" However, EVERY SINGLE OTHER MEMBER OF MY FAMILY IS OBESE. I've worked long and hard since my TEENS to stay healthy. JUST LIKE those who have worked long and hard since their teens to save money, there will be long term advantages to it. That's they way it works.

Being healthy, just like money management, involves long term thinking. Quick fixes don't work for either.
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: dividendman on November 19, 2014, 09:23:20 PM
Fatties gonna fat. If they were the sort of people to take responsibility for their actions, they wouldn't be obeasts.

I just want to say, after reading this thread and as someone who is fat, yes I'm fat because I'm lazy and like delicious bad for you food. I don't have any metabolic disorders or whatever else people above were mentioning. Some (most?) of us are fat because we're lazy and it's just not a priority to get into shape at the moment -  but I think it will be for me soon.

It really does annoy me that other fat folks *pretend* (yes PRETEND) that they are trying to be healthy and it's the top priority but it just can't happen due to blah blah blah. If it was really THE top priority then you should abandon other things for it, if you're not doing that then just admit to yourself that it's not the top priority (or even a priority) and move on. It doesn't help to tell yourself it's a priority but then *act* as though it's not - which is exactly what the whiners above are doing IMO.

I went home from work today, ate a burger, and then played call of duty advanced warfare (which is awesome) and browsed internet forums because THAT was a higher priority than being healthy. That's the fact of the matter because those are my actions. Whether that is smart or not is another discussion.
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: austin on November 19, 2014, 10:00:01 PM
I this the thread where people get their hate against fat people out or something?

I just don't understand this attitude. I'm not fat, some people are, it doesn't affect me, why do I care what other people weigh?

Seems like this hate against the fat people has become more prominent on the internet as homophobia becomes less socially acceptable. I'm guessing it's the same sort of people who are just looking for some group to direct their negative feelings towards. Sad way to live. : /
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: Cressida on November 19, 2014, 10:12:43 PM
I don't understand people that say they "walk" every day but complain that they're not losing weight. You need more moderate/high intensity cardio. Interval training is recommended as you get older. Walking is going to do little or nothing to aid in weight loss. I'll agree walking will do some good for your cardiovascular health, but it will not shred fat.

Not true. I lost 15 pounds earlier this year by restricting calories and walking an hour a day (with a small amount of biking thrown in, but really not much). At the time, I was 39, which isn't young. Quit discouraging people.
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: Cinder on November 20, 2014, 06:40:24 AM
I don't understand people that say they "walk" every day but complain that they're not losing weight. You need more moderate/high intensity cardio. Interval training is recommended as you get older. Walking is going to do little or nothing to aid in weight loss. I'll agree walking will do some good for your cardiovascular health, but it will not shred fat.

Not true. I lost 15 pounds earlier this year by restricting calories and walking an hour a day (with a small amount of biking thrown in, but really not much). At the time, I was 39, which isn't young. Quit discouraging people.

Everybody is different.  Diet is the largest factor in weight gain/loss.  If you are morbidly obese, then dropping down to a lower / 'normal' caloric intake will have you lose weight.
If you are only slightly over weight and not exercising, then unless you cut to an almost unmanageably low caloric intake, then you probably have to add exercise to your routine. 

I know not everyone here is a programmer, but there is a podcast aimed at programmers, but really more at 'thinking people' who don't just want to hop on trends but want to know some of the real information behind some of the fitness things at getupandcode.com . Lots of great info on exercise and nutrition there. 
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: Tallgirl1204 on November 20, 2014, 08:59:09 AM
I like that the MMM forums give me so many chances to re-examine (improve?) my attitudes and approaches to things. From this thread:
1. The simple-mindedness of the "I did it, so anybody can" argument is more obvious when people other than me say it. I grew up in poverty, in a family where nobody had gone beyond high school. Now I have a PhD and a high-paying job. I'm often tempted to think people who don't make that jump are lazy or stupid. Then I remind myself that I grew up with hard-working organic-gardening highly-literate parents in the socialist paradise of Quebec, where my poverty included free healthcare, free good centrally-administered public schools, and free or cheap post-secondary. From birth to BA in hand, my total costs for health care and education were $1590. Many people have far harder roads. So I'll seek out opportunities to shut up about how smart and hard-working I am.
2. I often have trouble putting myself in other people's shoes. I'm extremely grateful when someone spends time to write a thoughtful explanation of their situation. I need to remember to not pay them back by dismissing their experience because it's not mine, or because I like winning arguments.
3. Circle of control, obviously. Other people's weight is outside it. I don't get thinner or healthier by insulting them. This last one is hypocritical, though, because we come to the wall of shame and comedy specifically to insult *somebody*.

Thanks, Gerard, for your THOUGHTFUL comment.  This thread has been dispiritingly mean-spirited. 

Our images of fat and thin, especially for women, are so driven by the media, that we pass judgment on others without any idea, really.  Our images are Taylor Swift or Kate Moss-thin (genetic freaks of nature-- beautiful, yes, but not the norm), and guess what?  Even the most fit of women are not going to be them.  I thought I was "fat," at 6 feet and 118 pounds (when I was 18-- and had a mother who used that word at me because I ate so much) and I still look in the mirror and see 'fat," instead of "middle aged woman of healthy weight (155, which btw IS healthy at my height), who has had a child." 

I used to work with women who worked outside for a living.  Guess what?  They talked about how "fat" they were.  These were women with absolutely no fat in their faces, who were cut with muscle in their legs and arms, who were blessed with thick sturdy bones that could support a 75 pound pack, who could walk (or jog)25 miles in a day with smiles on their faces.  But they didn't look like women in magazines.  FAT.  That's how they saw themselves.  I'm going to guess that some of the people (especially women) on this thread who are describing their weight struggles fall into this category.   And they are hearing themselves shamed, yet again. 

The posts in this thread that have been helpful (to me) are the ones that talk about being healthy, about eating good food, about being strong.  Because hearing people talk about the level of control they have over their food and their bodies and saying "you're weak because you can't do this too" is not helpful.  It puts me right back in self-shaming mode.   In my life, I have finally decided to pursue "healthy" rather than beating myself up for 5 pounds on the scale.  I can't imagine what having 40 or 100 or 200 pounds to lose would feel like. 

And to that person I would say "What's one thing you could do today to improve your health?  Add one thing.  And do it for a week.  And if I'm your friend, and that one thing is that you can take a walk at work, I will take that walk with you.  And in a week, think of one more thing.  Etc.  And if you fall off the wagon, get back on it as soon as you can.  And know that people are rooting for you."  At least, I am. 


 

Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: Public Hermit on November 20, 2014, 10:32:16 AM
I don't understand people that say they "walk" every day but complain that they're not losing weight. You need more moderate/high intensity cardio. Interval training is recommended as you get older. Walking is going to do little or nothing to aid in weight loss. I'll agree walking will do some good for your cardiovascular health, but it will not shred fat.

Not true. I lost 15 pounds earlier this year by restricting calories and walking an hour a day (with a small amount of biking thrown in, but really not much). At the time, I was 39, which isn't young. Quit discouraging people.

That alone is 80% of the equation. Walking didn't do shit. It was the change in diet that led to the weight loss. And I am not discouraging anybody.
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: enigmaT120 on November 20, 2014, 10:59:23 AM
I know plenty of people for whom walking is a cardio exercise.  I don't plant a heart rate monitor on them, but they breath harder like I would on a run, so they are obviously getting a workout.  Since it's weight bearing it's even better for them than biking or swimming. 
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: frugalnacho on November 20, 2014, 12:16:41 PM
I've seen people breathe harder and break a sweat from peeling an orange.
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: Cressida on November 20, 2014, 01:22:00 PM
I don't understand people that say they "walk" every day but complain that they're not losing weight. You need more moderate/high intensity cardio. Interval training is recommended as you get older. Walking is going to do little or nothing to aid in weight loss. I'll agree walking will do some good for your cardiovascular health, but it will not shred fat.

Not true. I lost 15 pounds earlier this year by restricting calories and walking an hour a day (with a small amount of biking thrown in, but really not much). At the time, I was 39, which isn't young. Quit discouraging people.

That alone is 80% of the equation. Walking didn't do shit. It was the change in diet that led to the weight loss. And I am not discouraging anybody.

(sigh) Dude, I was there. Yes it did. The calorie restriction was minor.
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: Guses on November 21, 2014, 03:05:56 PM
I just want to say, after reading this thread and as someone who is fat, yes I'm fat because I'm lazy and like delicious bad for you food. I don't have any metabolic disorders or whatever else people above were mentioning. Some (most?) of us are fat because we're lazy and it's just not a priority to get into shape at the moment -  but I think it will be for me soon.

It really does annoy me that other fat folks *pretend* (yes PRETEND) that they are trying to be healthy and it's the top priority but it just can't happen due to blah blah blah. If it was really THE top priority then you should abandon other things for it, if you're not doing that then just admit to yourself that it's not the top priority (or even a priority) and move on. It doesn't help to tell yourself it's a priority but then *act* as though it's not - which is exactly what the whiners above are doing IMO.

I went home from work today, ate a burger, and then played call of duty advanced warfare (which is awesome) and browsed internet forums because THAT was a higher priority than being healthy. That's the fact of the matter because those are my actions. Whether that is smart or not is another discussion.

Bravo Sir!! I applaud your intellectual honesty!

You hit the nail in the head! In this situation, as in others, in order for it to be change, there needs to be a change of priorities.

I was lucky to be fat when I was a kid. Other kids used to make fun of me. This drove me to not want to be fat in adulthood above all else. This lead to a permanent change in my psyche where exercice and relatively healthy eating is a priority in my life. I say relatively healthy because I eat what is generally considered to be "fattening" foods (bread, fatty meat, pasta etc..) but I don't eat any processed food or candies or soda...etc. 

The first thing I do when I get home from work is to work out. I do 3-4 weight training sessions per week and 3-4 high intensity cardio sessions per week. Doesn't matter if I am tired because our kid kept us up, hungry, or otherwise not feeling like it. I just do it. On top of this I walk regularly, run sometimes, cycle to work (most of the year) and like to be active. My body has grown into this habit and, because of my muscle mass, I probably eat around 3000 cal. per day at maintenance.

I think that looking at it from the diet side only is missing the point in two ways:

1) You need permanent change to change permanentely.

@MM1970

If you viewed your diet as a means to an end instead as a new way of life to grow into, this could be one of the reasons why you find it hard to keep the weight off. Diet don't work because they are not permanent. You need to change your habits so that you can find a steady state that works for you.

2) Body composition is (IMHO) at least as important as what you put in your body

I would rather gain 10 lbs of muscle than lose 10 lbs of fat for instance. Those muscles will increase your steady state and make it easier to maintain and lose weight.

Benchpress, squats and deadlifts are your friends to domesticate.







Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: mm1970 on November 21, 2014, 05:02:52 PM
Quote
@MM1970

If you viewed your diet as a means to an end instead as a new way of life to grow into, this could be one of the reasons why you find it hard to keep the weight off. Diet don't work because they are not permanent. You need to change your habits so that you can find a steady state that works for you.

It's never been a means to an end for me, it's always been a lifestyle.  I have been interested in healthy eating for over a decade now, and first really started getting into it, and reading more and more about it, in 2002.

But as far as "keeping the weight off", it's nothing more complicated than life and age - has nothing to do with thinking of a diet as a means to an end.

As far as "life" goes, it's called pregnancy.  Once I originally got healthy and lost weight, it was easy to maintain - until I got pregnant.  With work stress and a baby and lack of sleep, it took about 2 years (23 months, to be exact) until I got back to my pre-pregnancy weight.  It was several months after I stopped nursing (so: hormones had to get back to normal).  Keeping a steady state was easy, but losing weight was not.

Once I lost the baby weight, I maintained a healthy weight on my healthy diet for years - well, I originally got healthy in 2002, had the baby in 2006, reached my healthy weight again in 2008, maintained that healthy weight until 2011.

(Which is when I got pregnant again.)

So now my son is 2 years 4 months.  I have found it much more difficult to lose weight after this second pregnancy.  Note: I still eat a healthy diet.  It's never been a temporary thing for me. What I have found, however, is that age has come into play.

I used to eat a fairly low fat, high grain diet - because that's what the USDA recommended.  In my early to mid-30's, I could maintain my weight pretty easily on that.  After the first baby it was harder, but I could still do it.

Well, now I'm 44 not 31 - things simply don't work the same way that they used to.  I've been doing tests and tweaks to my healthy diet here and there - and I've learned that my olden days "healthy diet" of mostly-vegetarian low-fat high-carb doesn't work for weight loss anymore.

So a "permanent" change might not actually be permanent - simply because your body can change as you age.   Note: earlier this year I was very resistant to the idea of cutting carbs.  Because: the USDA recommends 6-11 servings of grain per day!  What do you mean I should only be eating two!  Then I found my way to a book by Luise Light, who was in charge of creating the food pyramid in the 1980's.  I learned that her expert team's recommendations were 1-3 servings of whole grains per day, maximum, for health and weight.  (She quit the USDA, they released a much-adulterated food pyramid years later).

So at that point, it was a light bulb sort of moment for me.  I had already made a "permanent lifestyle change" that worked, until it didn't work anymore.  My choices were to accept the extra 25-35 pounds or figure out how to fight it.  So I cut my carb intake to 2 servings per day.  That worked for awhile, to the tune of about 17 pounds.  Then I stalled again.  With some more tweaks I'm down 21 pounds for the year.  It looks like I just cannot have wheat anymore.  Like, maybe ever.

This isn't anything new for me either.  You cannot out-exercise a bad diet.  It hits everyone at some point, just when?  When I first lost my weight I was 32.  My in-laws and I would talk about healthy food, and healthy portion sizes, and I heard, often "I don't eat too much" (note: they weren't obese, and maybe only slightly overweight).  10 years later - and lo and behold, they've cut their portion sizes considerably - it just hit them in their late 60's, not their early 30's.  Better genes I guess.

Permanent isn't really permanent as you age.  I could eat 6 grains a day, and now I can't.  I could have a glass of wine a day, then it was 2 per week.  Now it is once per month.  I could have dessert 2x a month, now it is once a month or less.  There is very little wiggle room as a I age.

Oh, and BTW, I love weight training and have muscle.  Due to time constraints, I tend to keep it to body weight exercises at home (pushups, squats, burpees, and shoulder-pressing a 27 pound toddler).


Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: Bob W on November 24, 2014, 11:57:35 AM
mm1970 -  Interesting progression,  thanks for all the details.   Might I suggest the USDA is in the business of promoting agriculture and food consumption?   

In my very, very, humble opinion it is not just you that shouldn't eat wheat,  it is all of us.  (check out the Wheat Belly book for why this is)

We would all be a bit slimmer if we would avoid wheat and sugar.   That said I recently attempted to do that and did great for a few months.   Now I'm hooked on the wheat again, shit, damn, hell.   And my weight has magically blossomed back to where I was. 

For poor folks, I think there are just a few things that tax payers should fund ---  some meat,  some potatoes,  some olive or grape seed oil and lots of veggies.    When I was eating only those categories I was healthier and happier and the weight loss was marginally slow.  Age does play a factor.  At 55 the pounds don't just melt away like they did at 40. 
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: GuitarStv on November 24, 2014, 12:30:02 PM
There's nothing wrong with eating wheat.  It's all about quantities.

As far as'Wheat Belly' . . . there's some value in the book, but it draws many erroneous and misleading conclusions.  For an analysis of the book:
http://www.aaccnet.org/publications/plexus/cfw/pastissues/2012/opendocuments/cfw-57-4-0177.pdf (http://www.aaccnet.org/publications/plexus/cfw/pastissues/2012/opendocuments/cfw-57-4-0177.pdf)
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: Posthumane on November 25, 2014, 04:58:36 PM
I find it interesting that some people have denounced walking as completely ineffective for weight loss. While running burns about twice as much energy (or more) per unit time compared to walking, the amount burned per unit distance is very similar with running only using 10-20% more energy. If you are severely restricted on free time than running is obviously better, but I find that I can walk much more than twice as long as I can run. I try to walk at least 5 km a day and I notice that for longer periods when I can stick to that I feel better and lose a bit of weight, whereas when I don't do as much walking I feel more lethargic and the weight starts (ever so slowly) creeping up. The thing is, I never really feel tired after a 5 km walk, whereas a 5 km run leaves me drained for a long time. I've never really been overweight much and I attribute that in part to the walking I do, since I do almost no food restriction and only small amounts of more intensive exercise.
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: dragoncar on November 25, 2014, 05:26:45 PM
I find it interesting that some people have denounced walking as completely ineffective for weight loss. While running burns about twice as much energy (or more) per unit time compared to walking, the amount burned per unit distance is very similar with running only using 10-20% more energy. If you are severely restricted on free time than running is obviously better, but I find that I can walk much more than twice as long as I can run. I try to walk at least 5 km a day and I notice that for longer periods when I can stick to that I feel better and lose a bit of weight, whereas when I don't do as much walking I feel more lethargic and the weight starts (ever so slowly) creeping up. The thing is, I never really feel tired after a 5 km walk, whereas a 5 km run leaves me drained for a long time. I've never really been overweight much and I attribute that in part to the walking I do, since I do almost no food restriction and only small amounts of more intensive exercise.

I agree - adding walking to your day is great for weight loss.  You aren't going to drop 5 pounds per week, but a 100-200 calorie difference will still help you lose a pound a month. 
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: mm1970 on November 27, 2014, 10:53:58 AM
mm1970 -  Interesting progression,  thanks for all the details.   Might I suggest the USDA is in the business of promoting agriculture and food consumption?   

In my very, very, humble opinion it is not just you that shouldn't eat wheat,  it is all of us.  (check out the Wheat Belly book for why this is)

We would all be a bit slimmer if we would avoid wheat and sugar.   That said I recently attempted to do that and did great for a few months.   Now I'm hooked on the wheat again, shit, damn, hell.   And my weight has magically blossomed back to where I was. 

For poor folks, I think there are just a few things that tax payers should fund ---  some meat,  some potatoes,  some olive or grape seed oil and lots of veggies.    When I was eating only those categories I was healthier and happier and the weight loss was marginally slow.  Age does play a factor.  At 55 the pounds don't just melt away like they did at 40.
Yes, Wheat Belly is on my Christmas wish list.  I haven't read it, but my neighbor has - she mentioned it to me, a couple of years ago when I was very resistant to giving it up.

I don't feel like i have a problem with wheat, in general - no digestive or auto-immune issues.  For me, simply, it's a matter of weight these days.  And I'm not saying I'm going to give it up entirely - just this month of November (nearly 100%, I don't stress if it's a minor ingredient).  It's been an eye-opening journey.  My weight loss RATE has tripled in this last month of giving it up, total calorie content remaining the same (1.5 lbs a week vs. 0.5 lbs a week).  Only other major change besides the sugar and alcohol (also, minor parts of my diet before) is this darned burpee challenge.
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: Cressida on November 27, 2014, 10:29:24 PM
I find it interesting that some people have denounced walking as completely ineffective for weight loss. While running burns about twice as much energy (or more) per unit time compared to walking, the amount burned per unit distance is very similar with running only using 10-20% more energy. If you are severely restricted on free time than running is obviously better, but I find that I can walk much more than twice as long as I can run. I try to walk at least 5 km a day and I notice that for longer periods when I can stick to that I feel better and lose a bit of weight, whereas when I don't do as much walking I feel more lethargic and the weight starts (ever so slowly) creeping up. The thing is, I never really feel tired after a 5 km walk, whereas a 5 km run leaves me drained for a long time. I've never really been overweight much and I attribute that in part to the walking I do, since I do almost no food restriction and only small amounts of more intensive exercise.

I totally agree. I personally hate running and I suck at it. But I actually mostly enjoy walking, even in poor weather. Running is better exercise, yes; but if I hate running and like walking, which am I more likely to stick with? Pretty obvious to me.
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: GuitarStv on November 28, 2014, 06:01:08 AM
If you have a ton of time to burn, going on regular long walks seems like a reasonable way to fend of fat by burning some calories.  Running burns off more calories in a shorter period of time though.
Title: Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
Post by: Guses on November 28, 2014, 08:01:56 AM
If you have a ton of time to burn, going on regular long walks seems like a reasonable way to fend of fat by burning some calories.  Running burns off more calories in a shorter period of time though.

Well... We've already established that it's not about the calories. So..... <insert roll eyes smiley here>

In all seriousness, whatever keeps you active and healthy. Regardless of whether it is actually supported by the laws of thermodynamics.