Author Topic: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"  (Read 49968 times)

totoro

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Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
« Reply #50 on: October 23, 2014, 07:22:18 AM »
Just as an aside, I am very suspicious of this article.  The Daily Mail, where this originates, has the reputation of about as much reliability as the National Inquirer, and the quotes are just too good to be true.  All the stuff where she says things like "This would interfere with my pizza eating so I can't do it."  There's a real picture of somebody in the article, but whether she really phrased those things in that way — I'd need some more evidence.

I agree. the whole thing smells fake, and they picked things that people love to get pissed about/gloat about their own superiority -- poor people and fat people. what a waste of time.


It is a little bit disappointing that no-one here who doesn't believe the article or "needs more evidence" knows how to google.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXnIBvDkRNw

Caella

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Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
« Reply #51 on: October 23, 2014, 07:22:44 AM »
Damn straight. They could get jobs if they wanted to. And fat people could be thin if they wanted to. And they SHOULD want to, because fatness is EVIL and worthy of nothing but HATRED and SCORN by all right-thinking people.

Ok, I ALMOST went all out on you, but thankfully my sarcasm radar fixed itself and I went back to read all the topic before commenting =]


Back on topic, I agree with a lot of people here, and fatness/weight loss is a delicate topic.

Yeah, the MMM approach to finances could be used to eating. We can be more efficient, focus on the benefits and learn to love (ew) broccoli instead of pizza, just as we let go the SUV's in favor of bikes. And yes, I see some complainypants attitude in most people trying (or that says is trying) to lose weight. In it's root, it is a self control and willingness issue.


And yet, it is not nearly as simple and direct as X calories in = X calories out. Every body is created different, with different genetic markers, different "problems" and benefits. The cravings are different for each person, and how the body reacts to the cravings as well.
Sometimes it's just conscious choices, just like some people prefer to keep working and be able to get some extra luxuries than retiring early. Personally I would prefer to be fat than to not eat some foods. Each person has his/her own sets of values and their choices will not be the same as yours or mine, and that doesn't make them automatically wrong.

There is the whole lot of self steem too. Many times the "fattie" thinks so badly of himself that doesn't think it's worthy to make the sacrifice. Then he/she chooses the instant gratification instead of the delayed that the diet/exercise brings, because fuck it. Many times obesity is just a symptom/one more thing among a LOT of psychological issues, and it's so damn easy to judge from outside instead of trying to exercise some empathy.

For some people eating is a comforting thing just like smoking, yeah. Some triggers on metabolic responses that makes you feel good and everything. And it's a lot harder to fight eating addiction because:

comfort eating = comfort smoking. 

Exactly.

Former smokers know they can't smoke just one cigarette because that could set them right back into their addiction. Recovering alcoholics know they can't have even one drink on a special occasion because even if they haven't tasted alcohol in 20 years, that one drink could set them off.  Formerly obese people and recovering overeaters know better than to ever eat another meal because that could.....wait....oh.

In my personal opinion based on personal experiences, i agree with the theory that your body has a "stable" weight. When you are at it, it's harder to lose weight, and it's harder to gain weight. This 'stable' number can be changed as you age, have children, etc etc etc. I had lost something like 20 pounds once and it was damn hard to maintain, It took a LOT more exercise and feeling hungry all the time. Even after a year or two maintaining it, it wasn't good/easy. I had also gained some extra 10 pounds in another occasion, and I really knew that was overeating at the time. I left the tables feeling stuffed at every meal. Both times, once I went back to normal eating, my weight shifted to my "stable" weight without much effort.And I believe that the constant dieting/binge eating screws with the body metabolic system. It never knows when it's gonna have one or another, so it just stores fat to be safe.

All this guilt and finger pointing to perfectly good, healthy and functional human beings because you "have to" look like this or that is just ridiculous.
Curiously no one EVER commented that he/she is worried about my health when I stuff my face on an all you can eat pizza place or when i go to McDonald's. Yes, I could have super high blood pressure, diabetes or cholesterol, but no one cares. I'm thin, so it's ok. If a fat person eats the same stuff, a lot of judgmental eyes go on, because you know, health is important!

Yup, health.

mm1970

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Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
« Reply #52 on: October 23, 2014, 07:26:38 AM »
its not necessarliy calories in calories out. 

1. i dont work out at all
2. i probably eat 2k+ calories a day
3. i've lost 36 lbs since january

its about WHAT you eat.  if you eat 2k calories in bread you're probably gonna gain weight ... if you eat 2k calories in meat you'll probably lose weight. 

IF you cared about yourself you would lose weight IF you dont you wouldnt

and those saying its not as easy as saving money Bull Sh!t .... its easier.  the results are quicker .... saving money takes 10+ years to reach independence.  eating healthy can have you lose 50+ lbs a year.  so say you're 400 lbs... in 4 years you will be at 200 ... its not that hard
Saving money is easier for me because I make a lot of money.
I would guess that when you are in your 20's with low income/fast metabolism, it's easier to lose weight.
Maybe mid-40s not so much.

It's really not that simple for everyone.
Doesn't matter that I don't eat bread, only eat 1-3 servings of carbohydrates a day (includes fruit).  Lean protein, healthy fat, vegetables. Sometimes beans. Very occasionally rice.  Even less often pasta.

It's amazing when someone has success and they automatically extrapolate it to others.  It simply doesn't work that way.

But I remember when I first lost all my weight (pre kids, early 30's).  I would see people say "I can't lose weight it never works".  And I thought 2 things:
1. Complete and utter sympathy.  I'd been there, I'd thought that very thing.
2.  "You can do it!"  The fact of the matter is I did eventually lose weight, but it took quite a bit of time and required me to try many many things.

Someone who can simply "change what they eat" and lose weight probably isn't going to understand someone who has to eat the same types of foods that they do, only 40% less, to even get the scale to budge.

totoro

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Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
« Reply #53 on: October 23, 2014, 07:30:23 AM »
No worries, robby, my skin is thick. I dish it out, I'm more than prepared to accept it.

I would love some good quality medical publications (journals and studies) about insulin resistance vs weight loss and how it affects things. A quick google has turned up a lot of bro science.

FWIW you and those who attribute being overweight solely to being lazy are kind of being jerks.  Having an opinion is easy, how about you really put some time into research instead of a "quick google" if you are going to judge? 

I agree that addictions are difficult, but can be managed by most with assistance. As pointed out, unlike smoking or drinking, you cannot just quit eating which makes things a bit more difficult to manage. 

Research suggests that, as our bodies gain weight based on genetic predispositions, it is likely that our brains become less receptive to the “stop eating” hormones that our fat cells secrete (like leptin).

I am normal weight and have never had a problem with gaining weight.  My best friend is obese.  I've watched her struggle with weight for 30 years.  I'm pretty sure that it is not all explained by lack of will power and too many calories.

She is very strong and physically active.  She eats poorly sometimes.  She is on the waitlist for gastric bypass because no diet has ever worked for long for her - she, like 95% of all obese people, always gains the weight back, as does her brother.

Now 95% is a big number and my take is that genetics regulate body metabolism to a significant degree which makes it pretty tough to keep the weight off - your body is working against you in this and increases your appetite and decreases you ability to sense fullness. 

Also some people have more fat cells naturally.  And fat cells themselves multiply during two growth periods: early childhood and adolescence. Overeating during those times increases the number of fat cells.

Dr Leibel's, an obesity researcher, did studies of the formerly obese (who are keeping weight off) and he observed that they are hungry all the time, are cold and other symptoms of the biochemical system kicking in to force a weight gain. When they exercise, these individuals burn 15 to 20 percent fewer calories than a normally thin person.

http://www.drsharma.ca/obesitywhy-is-it-so-hard-to-maintain-a-reduced-body-weight.html

http://healthread.net/why-dieters-regain-leibel.htm

Source: Weight control and diet | University of Maryland Medical Center http://umm.edu/health/medical/reports/articles/weight-control-and-diet#ixzz33mPghnRr
University of Maryland Medical Center

http://centennial.rucares.org/index.php?page=Weight_Loss

mm1970

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Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
« Reply #54 on: October 23, 2014, 07:30:26 AM »
Quote
In my personal opinion based on personal experiences, i agree with the theory that your body has a "stable" weight. When you are at it, it's harder to lose weight, and it's harder to gain weight. This 'stable' number can be changed as you age, have children, etc etc etc. I had lost something like 20 pounds once and it was damn hard to maintain, It took a LOT more exercise and feeling hungry all the time. Even after a year or two maintaining it, it wasn't good/easy. I had also gained some extra 10 pounds in another occasion, and I really knew that was overeating at the time. I left the tables feeling stuffed at every meal. Both times, once I went back to normal eating, my weight shifted to my "stable" weight without much effort.And I believe that the constant dieting/binge eating screws with the body metabolic system. It never knows when it's gonna have one or another, so it just stores fat to be safe.
This makes it very hard.

Most days, I'm hungry.  I eat 5 small meals a day.
On 1250 calorie days, I go to bed hungry. I wake up in the middle of the night hungry. I go to the gym in the morning and swim hungry, until about 25 laps in and it turns into a splitting headache.  Then I either suck it up and finish the last 5 laps or quit.

But hey, at least I'm losing 1/2 lb a week, right. Yay me.

madame librarian

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Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
« Reply #55 on: October 23, 2014, 07:32:21 AM »
I am very thin and always have been, no matter what crap I shove into my gullet. Now that I'm older and smarter, I do eat healthfully, but there was definitely a time (helloooo college) when I ate cake for breakfast. I also worked in a desk job where the majority of people gain 20-30 lbs within 2 years after starting and I didn't gain an ounce. This is why I don't really buy the "being fat is all about self control, don't be such a glutton" thing. I have been a super unhealthy eater and a sedentary lazypants, and nobody ever knew or cared because my body didn't get fat because I have the genes to be tiny. It's not right or fair. And it's not at all hard for me to believe that some people are the opposite. Your body shape doesn't define who you are as a person.

mm1970

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Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
« Reply #56 on: October 23, 2014, 07:41:32 AM »
Quote
I count calories and eat about 1200-1500 a day.

I've heard that before.

Here's a website dedicated to willpower and choices. Here's you belly-aching about how things aren't your fault and you already do everything perfectly.

Oh, and that (suspect) article you linked? It argues that it's harder to gain weight than we think. So you have even less excuse. It does not argue the other way around. You may draw that connection but that's yet another assumption with no evidence. (Regardless, it's pretty suspect - the website itself, and the article. I'll believe it when I see scientific consensus, not one opinion tenuously linked to one paper, which isn't a study but is a two-page-long blurb and is hardly a valid source for... anything.)

"If we can't be perfect, why bother trying?"

We can be perfect. That's the beauty of it. I'm not a particularly handsome dude, but I have no fat on my belly. It makes life a lot easier. Miles-long mountainous hikes with gear and food and water are a leisurely weekend activity. Interestingly, I've also tried measuring how much food I eat, to encourage a friend; it turned out that without trying at all I hovered at 1400 a day while she (despite being shorter and smaller) consistently ate 3-500 more. That was her "normal" and she couldn't imagine how it was so much when I ate more volume and fewer calories. My simple strategy is to cook my own food, and use only simple ingredients, and very few of them. Food you get prepared - including bread, meat, and so on - manages to stick an absolutely massive amount of calories and other shit into a small package that really doesn't fill you up; a $1 cheeseburger is 400+ calories. ($1 also feeds me for an entire day.)

People weren't fat in the past, except for the wealthy. We have far more knowledge today about nutrition and a massive opportunity to turn knowledge into practice.

I'm no hypocrite. If I gain weight, I'll think back to how I think about fat people and I'll lose the damn weight. Hasn't happened so far.

BPA, what metabolic disorder specifically? What effect does it have? I know a guy with a thyroid disorder (a real one, unlike 99% of claimants) and he's, what, fifteen pounds overweight at most? Can't even tell. Because he works out and eats right. It's harder for him than other people but he does it. "Slow metabolism?" I've heard that one too; it's just as bullshit. A slow metabolism might account for a hundred, maybe two hundred calories at most compared to a fast one.

It's hilarious to see fat apologists on a website dedicated to willpower and living lean. What's next, "I only drive my SUV because it's so much more comfortable than a normal car?"
I never said I was perfect.  I simply pointed out that I know how to eat right and exercise, and I do it.  Weight loss is not new to me. I was a chubby kid, but not by today's standards, by the 80's standards (childhood and teen years are when most of your fat cells are made).

In my early 30's I was fat because I ate way too much.  When I finally found something that worked to lose weight, I realized I was taking in about 3000 calories a day as a 5'2" female.  Whoops.  57 lbs down later...I had it all figured out.

In my late 30's I struggled really hard to lose the last 20 lbs of baby weight.  Full time job, work stress, lack of sleep from nursing/ pumping/ teething baby.  The only way I was finally able to take off those lbs was to switch to part time work.  And even then, once I lost the weight, I couldn't maintain the same weight as pre-baby, it was 5 lbs more.  Well, that's okay, still in the healthy range for me.

Then I had a baby at 42.  I still ate right and exercised during pregnancy.  But I still gained 50 lbs.  A few reasons: 1. memory effect of pregnancy weight gain, an extra 10 lbs the first trimester. 2. stress from work (it was very bad), 3. lack of sleep - 2 hours of insomnia every night, 4. life stress -  my mother died in my first trimester.

Well you know, those things that worked the first two times aren't working now.  So I had to make adjustments - namely, cutting my calories and being hungry all. the. time.  Oh, it's coming off at 0 to 0.6 lbs per week, but it's awesome to be judged for my weight when you don't know what you are talking about.

And that link?  Read above, I did point out that you have to eat more to gain weight too.  Unless there are other things going on.

It's so great to read people make your insensitive comments. I HAVE willpower and I DO live lean.  I'm still FAT!


mm1970

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Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
« Reply #57 on: October 23, 2014, 08:09:33 AM »
Insulin resistance.  Ironically because carbs (which are cheap) were my primary food source when I first tried to save money which actually kind of relates to the thread title.  I only recently realized it was part of the problem.  It wasn't until after I dealt with the emotional eating aspect of the incest and the weight still wasn't coming off like it should, that after reading a lot, I put it all together.

I try to follow the Insulin Resistance Diet or other low carb diets, and the weight is coming off, but I'm 46 and it's pretty slow.

I wish I knew that I was Insulin Resistant earlier instead of getting frustrated with calories in/out.  I can only go on from here. 

It is more expensive following IRD than it was the CI/CO I was following before.

And hey.  If anyone is interested, myfitnesspal.com is a great place to log for free.  I like it because it tracks carbs, protein, and fat.  Just a warning though, the calories burned via exercise thing is inflated for most people.  Too bad because I cycle like mad and according to MFP, I should weigh about -160 pounds by now.  :)  Instead of 190 like I do.

This is very sad, because I spent 20 years eating like the "food pyramid" recommended - all those carbs, and it turns out that was probably part of the problem.

I love MFP.  I have to say, I wrote down a month ago that it said by 11/2 I will weigh 147.4, so I figured it was off.  But I'm actually pretty close.

I recently read a book by Luise Light called WHAT TO EAT.  She was in charge of coming up with the new dietary guidelines in the 1980s.  The lobbies for the various food industries did not like her team's recommendations, which were based on all the research for health and weight control.

When the food pyramid was released a few years later (after she left in frustration), it didn't resemble her recommendations. Her team recommended 1-2 servings per day of carbohydrate foods for women (up to 3 for men), and all whole grain.  Brown rice, beans, oats, etc.  (Fruit was not included as a carb.)  Far cry from 6-11.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2014, 08:26:20 AM by mm1970 »

boarder42

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Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
« Reply #58 on: October 23, 2014, 08:33:25 AM »
i guess you guys are right saving money isnt the same ... its actually harder than losing weight b/c its tied to an income you make.  being fat is tied to how much/what you put in your mouth and to a lesser extent how active you are.  both things 100% under your control. 

make excuses all you want

but thats what they are EXCUSES

totoro

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Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
« Reply #59 on: October 23, 2014, 08:45:40 AM »
i guess you guys are right saving money isnt the same ... its actually harder than losing weight b/c its tied to an income you make.  being fat is tied to how much/what you put in your mouth and to a lesser extent how active you are.  both things 100% under your control. 

make excuses all you want

but thats what they are EXCUSES

Except for the medical research, never mind anecdotal, that demonstrates that this is not true and which was posted above. 

It is like me telling you that I have no patience for the statements you are making about saving money being "hard" - harder than losing weight.  Stop making excuses.  Your income is entirely under your control.

boarder42

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Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
« Reply #60 on: October 23, 2014, 08:58:33 AM »
i save tons of money and income isnt 100% under a person's control if that was the case i'd make 500MM a year and own 27 yachts

boarder42

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Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
« Reply #61 on: October 23, 2014, 08:59:37 AM »
i cant wake up tomorrow and decide to make 500MM dollars. and start making that money instantly. 

I can wake up tomorrow and decide to start losing weight and start losing it instantly.

Tai

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Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
« Reply #62 on: October 23, 2014, 09:09:04 AM »
I was a normal weight until I smashed my knee up around 40. A couple weeks in a hip to ankle splint and 6 months of it swollen and I gained weight. I have not been able to lose that weight. So now I'm borderline obese. I've also had surgery since and any kind of impact exercise is out. I do walk, for miles, and had a fairly active job. I am still thinner than any of my relatives were at the same age. I really don't eat very much, and eat pretty healthy, if I ate this way when I was younger guaranteed I'd have lost pounds. But I guess according to you young, healthy guys it's all willpower? Just wait until you're older and see, things change. I was jogging to work before injuring my knee, I guess you all would have been able to hop all the way on one leg. I try not to judge overweight people now, because I don't know why/how they got that way and throw in some physical ailments and it's a pita.

totoro

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Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
« Reply #63 on: October 23, 2014, 09:12:16 AM »
i cant wake up tomorrow and decide to make 500MM dollars. and start making that money instantly. 


Why can't you make double what you make?  What is stopping you from getting a second job, working smarter or investing more? 

As far as I'm concerned doubling your income is reasonable and is 100% under your control should you set this as a goal.  Much more so than weight is for those who have been overweight based on the medical evidence in those studies.

rocksinmyhead

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Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
« Reply #64 on: October 23, 2014, 09:18:17 AM »
i cant wake up tomorrow and decide to make 500MM dollars. and start making that money instantly. 


Why can't you make double what you make?  What is stopping you from getting a second job, working smarter or investing more? 

As far as I'm concerned doubling your income is reasonable and is 100% under your control should you set this as a goal.  Much more so than weight is for those who have been overweight based on the medical evidence in those studies.

+1

I'm pretty sure changing your income is easier than changing your genetics

I was jogging to work before injuring my knee, I guess you all would have been able to hop all the way on one leg. I try not to judge overweight people now, because I don't know why/how they got that way and throw in some physical ailments and it's a pita.

word.

Gone Fishing

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Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
« Reply #65 on: October 23, 2014, 09:28:44 AM »
As a culture we like to harp on weight because you can see it.  It is right there in front of you, just like gasoline prices and the stock market, almost impossible to ignore.  I can't promise anyone weight loss, but if you exercise 60 minutes a day, don't eat crap (candy, cookies, soda, fast food, most restaurant food in general, chips, and other processed foods), while sticking to fruits, veg, fresh meats, skin on potatoes, oatmeal, etc.  you WILL be healthier and probably have a little more cash in your pocket.  We need to stop using weight a barometer of health (or motivation) and start focusing purely on levels of excercise and quality of food intake. Oh wait, this isn't as easy as judging a fat person on sight, and takes away the genetic benefit that the "lucky" individuals have, guess we'll just have to go on judging...     

frugalnacho

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Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
« Reply #66 on: October 23, 2014, 09:33:08 AM »
I am fat.  I weigh about 230 and have a bit of a beer belly.  I have no thyroid or metabolism problems.  I like to smoke pot, drink liquor, eat pizza, and eat sweets, and when I do any of those activities I usually over do it.  I could be ripped and have a six pack, but I realize I would have to give up a lot of my bad habits and i'm not willing to do that. 

I know some people do have legitimate medical problems that prevent them from losing weight or maintaining a healthy body weight, but I think they are in the minority.  For the vast majority of people your lifestyle and food choices directly affect your weight/fatness.   Honestly when I hear anyone claim that it's so hard to lose weight, or that they have some medical condition that prevents them from maintaining a healthy body weight I equate it to people claiming they can't get by on their paycheck (despite me directly observing them making bad choices [either health wise or financially]).  If I don't know that person personally I automatically assume they are just a complainy pants that isn't taking responsibility for their own health (or finances).

NumberCruncher

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Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
« Reply #67 on: October 23, 2014, 09:35:19 AM »
As a culture we like to harp on weight because you can see it.  It is right there in front of you, just like gasoline prices and the stock market, almost impossible to ignore.  I can't promise anyone weight loss, but if you exercise 60 minutes a day, don't eat crap (candy, cookies, soda, fast food, most restaurant food in general, chips, and other processed foods), while sticking to fruits, veg, fresh meats, skin on potatoes, oatmeal, etc.  you WILL be healthier and probably have a little more cash in your pocket.  We need to stop using weight a barometer of health (or motivation) and start focusing purely on levels of excercise and quality of food intake. Oh wait, this isn't as easy as judging a fat person on sight, and takes away the genetic benefit that the "lucky" individuals have, guess we'll just have to go on judging...     

Yes!

Also, shaming fat people DOESN'T WORK:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2014/09/11/fat-shaming-doesnt-work-a-new-study-says/



naloj

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Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
« Reply #68 on: October 23, 2014, 09:46:20 AM »
The metabolism of someone who went from 250lbs to 200lbs is not the same as someone who has always weighed 200lbs.  The body still thinks it's starving and will try to conserve the calories.  The dieting 200lb person will have to eat less than the person who has always weighed 200lbs.

Physics will always win out over metabolism/thyroid/whatever so you need to eat less, exercise more, or a combination.

If you feel like you're starving all the time then eat higher quantities of foods that are less calorie dense.

Exercise is a great cure for depression because it releases endocannabinoids which gets you naturally high.

There is always low impact cardio like swimming/bike riding no matter what your condition.

I don't know how anyone can say "I'm doing everything right but it's just not working!"  It's not working because you're not doing it right.  Your definition of right has been skewed by whatever prejudices/beliefs you have.  Keep researching and experimenting until you find a diet and exercise routine that is giving you the progress you want to make.

GuitarStv

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Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
« Reply #69 on: October 23, 2014, 10:02:20 AM »
The metabolism of someone who went from 250lbs to 200lbs is not the same as someone who has always weighed 200lbs.  The body still thinks it's starving and will try to conserve the calories.  The dieting 200lb person will have to eat less than the person who has always weighed 200lbs.

This is a concept that keeps coming up that I think many are misinterpreting.

This does not mean that someone who loses weight is hopelessly screwed for the rest of their life because they won't burn as many calories as someone who hadn't been fat.  If it were true then the greatest ultra-marathon runners in the world would all be ex obese people.  Why?  Because their bodies have been supercharged by the tremendous benefits outlined.  Greater efficiency for less caloric intake!  You can run further on less energy!  Something is not quite right in this assumption.

The science behind the link between fat gain and calories consumed is pretty conclusive.  Muscle burns more calories than fat, which might account for some of the claims of metabolic differences between a person who is 200lbs naturally and one who just lost 50lbs to become 200lbs.  Typically muscle is lost at as fast or a greater rate than fat . . . which would mean that the person who just lost weight likely has less muscle mass.  There are many ways to increase muscle mass.  They increase your metabolism.

*** This is also why it's stupid to only look at weight as a measure of fitness.  Muscle weighs a lot.  Focusing on reducing the number of lbs on the scale doesn't correlate to an increase in health.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2014, 10:04:49 AM by GuitarStv »

Tai

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Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
« Reply #70 on: October 23, 2014, 10:17:17 AM »
Why should I lose weight because other people don't like how my body looks? I'm healthy and active, and I'm ok with having a middle-age spread along with the wrinkles and other changes. I only have so much time/energy/ability to focus and for me things like working towards increasing my income, financial resources and education are more of a priority. I don't drink or smoke anything, but I don't go around shaming those who do. Could I lose weight? Sure, but it would be really difficult and I don't think it's worth it. I'm on a FIRE board not a I want to look like I'm pre-adolescent board.

crazyworld

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Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
« Reply #71 on: October 23, 2014, 10:43:10 AM »
I highly doubt I can change anyone's mind, but here goes:

1. "comfort eating = comfort smoking": except that one does not have to smoke, but one does have to eat. I can live in a bubble and not come across any fattening item ever so that I never have to exercise my scant will power and walk away from it.  But then, I can get fat on beans and rice. Easy. When I say comfort food, I do not mean twinkies personally (hate the smell of them actually) And I do not want my thin husband eating those either. But not because he would get fat. Because I am a big believer in whole, unprocessed foods and against "chemical" food.

2. "I don't want to pay more insurance for your bad food choices": my health is perfect. with a cap P, Perfect. No diabetes (not even borderline), no BP, no cholesterol, no nothing. In fact I barely see a doctor. Less than once a year. You can go ahead and thank me now for keeping your premiums low.  My thin husband OTOH, has high cholesterol and higher sugar than I do.

Anything else I can clarify for the self-righteous?

Miamoo

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Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
« Reply #72 on: October 23, 2014, 10:48:11 AM »
I guess I'm lucky.  ????  No medical excuses.

Obesity runs on the maternal side of the family.  I have never been obese and never will be.  I have given too many people permission to shoot me if I ever get fat.

I don't weigh myself regularly.  Instead, if my clothes feel like they're not fitting right (tight), that's when I cut back on . .. whatever . . . until the clothes are comfortable again.

After babies I will never forget my 5'2" 300# mother telling me how "dumpy" I looked with the baby pooch after each one.  (Sit ups by the thousands)


Gin1984

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Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
« Reply #73 on: October 23, 2014, 10:51:38 AM »
The metabolism of someone who went from 250lbs to 200lbs is not the same as someone who has always weighed 200lbs.  The body still thinks it's starving and will try to conserve the calories.  The dieting 200lb person will have to eat less than the person who has always weighed 200lbs.

Physics will always win out over metabolism/thyroid/whatever so you need to eat less, exercise more, or a combination.

If you feel like you're starving all the time then eat higher quantities of foods that are less calorie dense.

Exercise is a great cure for depression because it releases endocannabinoids which gets you naturally high.

There is always low impact cardio like swimming/bike riding no matter what your condition.

I don't know how anyone can say "I'm doing everything right but it's just not working!"  It's not working because you're not doing it right.  Your definition of right has been skewed by whatever prejudices/beliefs you have.  Keep researching and experimenting until you find a diet and exercise routine that is giving you the progress you want to make.
My mom was active, though not as much as she "should", ate right etc but could not lose weight and no, she was so exhausted that we would just come home a lay down.  Was she just lazy?  No, she had damage to her thyroid.  Once she had the surgery and was put on meds her energy jumped.  She now works out seven days a week, still eats well and pounds flew off.  And she had been overweight for her entire life even in her twenties where she walked everywhere and worked out every day. The doctors think she had had damage to her thyroid from childhood and it just got worse and worse.  Many times people need support, medical or otherwise to change their weight.  Instead of pulling them down, why don't we help?
« Last Edit: October 23, 2014, 11:00:42 AM by Gin1984 »

GuitarStv

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Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
« Reply #74 on: October 23, 2014, 10:55:53 AM »
Why should I lose weight because other people don't like how my body looks? I'm healthy and active, and I'm ok with having a middle-age spread along with the wrinkles and other changes. I only have so much time/energy/ability to focus and for me things like working towards increasing my income, financial resources and education are more of a priority. I don't drink or smoke anything, but I don't go around shaming those who do. Could I lose weight? Sure, but it would be really difficult and I don't think it's worth it. I'm on a FIRE board not a I want to look like I'm pre-adolescent board.

Carrying extra weight along with an active lifestyle isn't significantly worse for you than being ideal weight and having an active lifestyle.

Philociraptor

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Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
« Reply #75 on: October 23, 2014, 11:20:26 AM »
Another anecdote here:

I was a healthy weight until I gained 30 lbs during my 3rd-4th grade summer (thanks grandma!). After that I struggled with weight (and the bullies that add to that struggle) all the way through high school and most of college (topped out around 220 lbs). Discovered Paleo, dropped 30 lbs in 1 semester, got busy, stopped eating well, gained most of it back the following semester. Started working my first real job in September of 2011, been dropping weight and gaining muscle ever since. Only diet that seems to work for me is Paleo, I've tried running, lifting, Insanity, and currently doing Crossfit. I'm still stuck around 165, even when I count calories (1600/day plus exercise at 25 years old, 5'7" tall). Having been fat most of my life, it's not easy losing weight, and it's especially disheartening seeing the scale start to creep back up.

My point is, I'm educated and read a ton on nutrition and fitness, and it's still hard. Information is a small part of the battle, creating good habits is the bulk of it. Each year my habits improve, and I see incremental progress along with them. It takes time though, and everybody is in a different place in their fitness journey. I didn't have anybody calling me lazy or stupid when I first started losing weight, and it certainly wouldn't have helped keep me on the right path.

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Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
« Reply #76 on: October 23, 2014, 11:22:27 AM »
I'm considered thin... Though I'm at least 10-15 lbs over any ideal body weight chart online.  (Shows how low we've set the bar for thin, I guess?)

When people say, "You're lucky--you're really tall and your fast metabolism and blah, blah, blah.."  They get a big "Fuck you!," back.  I noticed my metabolism changing at 20, then at 30, then (almost exactly) at 40.  Each of those decades required more vegetables and fruits and less fat and carbs to keep a decent frame.  If I actually bought cookies and pizza, I'd eat them every day of the week.  Hell yes--I want cookies!!  I want them all now--in my belly!!  All the time!  And spaghetti.  Fuck, I love a hearty meaty red sauce spaghetti.  And chicken fingers with BBQ sauce.  Damn, that stuff is good!  I so wish I could eat like I did when I was 18.

But I don't.  Sadly, I buy lentils, rice, cucumber, lettuce, apples, very small pieces of meat, and bananas.  When I do get pizza, spaghetti, cookies, or cake on a special occasion it makes them all the more wonderfully delicious.  :)   It's weird, I almost faint when I have cake now because my body isn't used that level of sugar.
Beer?  You'll never take that one away.  From my cold, dead hands.

Ironically (predictably) the people who say I'm "lucky" for being thin also like to make fun of me for walking everywhere, carrying my groceries in a backpack, and not owning a car.  ...But they pay for gym memberships.  (Dumbasses.)

gimp

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Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
« Reply #77 on: October 23, 2014, 12:02:40 PM »
If you actually eat 1250 calories a day without losing weight, I recommend applying for some studies - maybe medical, but more likely physics. "Woman eats fewer calories than her body expends on a daily basis but loses no weight." That would really be something, you know? You'd be famous. You'd also be the first.

There are many things that may influence you to eat more but literally the only way you gain energy is by eating, so every single bit of fat you have comes from eating. You don't get energy from the sunlight, or from the earth. You eat. If you eat too much, you grow sideways. You may have reasons for eating too much, which may even approach decent, but the single cause of being fat is your body getting more energy than it expends, on a consistent basis, which it converts by various means and with various supplies into fat. How much energy your body expends changes over time, sure, but so should your diet to accommodate that.

golden1

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Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
« Reply #78 on: October 23, 2014, 12:10:17 PM »
This thread needs a dose of empathy and critical thinking.

1) The science isn't completely in on weight loss - there is no consensus.  There are lots of good studies that contradict each other because weight loss is an incredibly difficult thing to study.  It is very hard to hold factors in isolation, so studies might appear to be saying one thing, but actually do not prove out at all.  There are also lots of new theories about gut biomes, hormones and other vectors in body weight that are just starting to be studied.  Generally, there is a basic energy balance that works for a lot of people, but there are even factors that complicate that. 

2) Shaming people about their health and weight doesn't work, and trust me, the stuff you are saying about people who are overweight - they are saying even worse things to themselves.  SHAMING yourself about your weight and health doesn't work either.  That shit leads to binge eating, anorexia, orthorexia and other eating disorders.   

3) My personal experience with weight loss/healthy living is that super low carb makes me feel like crap - no energy at all, avoiding refined sugar makes me feel awesome, a higher protein diet with some whole grains and a lot of plant foods makes me feel the best.  Exercise is a keystone habit for me - if I am exercising, I don't feel depressed, I eat better, I sleep better.   

4)  I think that the one diet truism that holds over every different weight loss book, study etc... eat more fruits and veggies.  If people ate the 5-7 servings of fruits and veggies they are supposed to before eating other stuff, a lot of people would lose weight. 

5) The best thing that a person can do is to concentrate on how exercise and a proper diet actually makes them feel in the moment.  Being mindful of how you feel 15 minutes after you eat that donut helps make the positive connection to healthy foods that keeps you reaching for them over other stuff.  Also, being mindful of when you are actually full keeps you from overeating. 

golden1

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Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
« Reply #79 on: October 23, 2014, 12:14:25 PM »
Quote
https://gokaleo.com/about-me/

Kaleo is one of my favorite fitness people.  She brings a lot of sanity to the nonsense that is out there.  She weighs 170, and eats 3000 calories a day and she looks awesome.  It really isn't just about weight.   

golden1

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Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
« Reply #80 on: October 23, 2014, 12:17:40 PM »
I do agree that MFP is really inaccurate when it comes to exercise calories.  I was maintaining weight on a 1400 calorie a day diet plus exercise when I was supposed to be losing 0.5-1lb a week.  I had to stop counting exercise in order to begin losing. 

Using a food scale really helps too.  A serving of pasta is 2 oz and when I started weighing my portions, I realized that I was eating 5-6 oz per plate - yikes!


GuitarStv

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Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
« Reply #81 on: October 23, 2014, 12:20:49 PM »
Being mindful of how you feel 15 minutes after you eat that donut helps make the positive connection to healthy foods that keeps you reaching for them over other stuff.

I feel stunningly good 15 minutes after eating a donut.  That's why they're so tempting.  :P

golden1

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Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
« Reply #82 on: October 23, 2014, 01:26:33 PM »
Really?  I feel great as I am eating the donut, but then feel like taking a nap 20 minutes later.  Maybe it is an age thing, or maybe I am just weird. 

yyc-phil

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Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
« Reply #83 on: October 23, 2014, 01:47:49 PM »
We have no idea what other people go through, or went through, in their lives. I do not condone unhealthy choices, but I can understand why some people repeatedly make bad decisions instead of good ones. Anectodal evidence from one of us who was able to overcome certain events or socio-economic conditions are exactly what they are, anecdotal. If you were able to overcome something, it does not mean someone else has the means, willpower, mental/psychological conditions to do it. In fact, having overcome something difficult should give you more empathy towards others in the same situation. Do not judge a man until you have walked a mile in his shoes may sound a bit simplistic, but I try to live by it whenever I am tempted to make a quick judgement on a person's choices or lifestyle.

Miamoo

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Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
« Reply #84 on: October 23, 2014, 01:59:03 PM »
Really?  I feel great as I am eating the donut, but then feel like taking a nap 20 minutes later.  Maybe it is an age thing, or maybe I am just weird.

You get a sugar maybe carb rush at first and then crash.  I'm the same way.  I don't think we're weird just not wired to eat crap.  Even tho it's tempting and satisfying for a moment.  Just a moment.

Tis the season for apple cider donuts.  Mmmmmmmmm.  Must eat one and then crash and have a headache.  Not wired for crap food.

happyfeet

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Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
« Reply #85 on: October 23, 2014, 02:04:50 PM »
I am fat.  I weigh about 230 and have a bit of a beer belly.  I have no thyroid or metabolism problems.  I like to smoke pot, drink liquor, eat pizza, and eat sweets, and when I do any of those activities I usually over do it.  I could be ripped and have a six pack, but I realize I would have to give up a lot of my bad habits and i'm not willing to do that. 

I know some people do have legitimate medical problems that prevent them from losing weight or maintaining a healthy body weight, but I think they are in the minority.  For the vast majority of people your lifestyle and food choices directly affect your weight/fatness.   Honestly when I hear anyone claim that it's so hard to lose weight, or that they have some medical condition that prevents them from maintaining a healthy body weight I equate it to people claiming they can't get by on their paycheck (despite me directly observing them making bad choices [either health wise or financially]).  If I don't know that person personally I automatically assume they are just a complainy pants that isn't taking responsibility for their own health (or finances).

What he said.  There are just so many overweight people - adults and children these days.  And why there are some circumstances where people struggle with losing weight in many instances too much food goes in the pie hole.  Watched a very overweight lady and her spouse down two large tubs of buttered popcorn each and several large sodas(probably not diet).  That was at a hockey game.  Oh and some hotdogs.

Then observed a bridal party( all overweight young gals) eat an enormous amount of food and drink alcohol at at bar in Nashville.

Would I like to eat like that?  Yea.  Would I become fat?  Yea.  All choices.

The health problems brought on by obesity now and in the future  - wow.  Lots of overweight folks out there.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2014, 02:10:29 PM by happyfeet »

gimp

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Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
« Reply #86 on: October 23, 2014, 02:15:56 PM »
You are right that Myfitnesspal massively overestimates caloric expenditure from exercise. It's insane. The food part is pretty good, but the thing is, weight loss is 90% food 10% exercise; running or swimming or whatever for hours and hours will only burn a few hundred calories at most - about a slice or three of pizza.

You know, I was starting to get the idea something must be really wrong when I compared the estimated calories burned from Google Tracks versus Garmin Fit.  I can fire up my phone's GPS, go for a bike ride and it shows the exact same GPS track in each app.  Tracks will show my bike ride burned, say, 432 calories for 75 minutes.  Meanwhile Fit says I burned 1400 calories.  That is a HUGE gap for two of the most common things you can install on a phone, each from huge companies (Google & Garmin).  I'm not even going to speculate as to how or why they are so far apart from each other, but it certainly doesn't help clear up any debate about how many calories exercise burns.

Absolutely. I don't know how they come up with those figures. I would assume that unless you're sweating buckets and ache like you lost a fight, you're not burning enough calories from exercise to count against your daily total. A couple hundred kcal at most will just mean you lose fat and build muscle faster, not that you can make up for it by eating more.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bs40BtGpuCA

Here's a strongman who estimates some 20k kcal (realistically: probably 15k, and probably only for relatively short periods of time.) Four hundred pounds, mostly muscle. He talks about how it's hard to get into the habit, but once you do, you're in - the habit of eating clean food and nothing else. After a while, it starts to taste good and shit starts to taste like shit.

At that weight, it takes something like 6000 kcal just to maintain. Yeah, if you're overweight, you will lose weight eating what a normal person eats, because you need more food just to maintain your bulk -- of course this is doubly true for muscle mass, but it's quite true for fat as well.

Quote
What he said.  There are just so many overweight people - adults and children these days.  And why there are some circumstances where people struggle with losing weight in many instances too much food goes in the pie hole.  Watched a very overweight lady and her spouse down two large tubs of buttered popcorn each and several large sodas(probably not diet).  That was at a hockey game.  Oh and some hotdogs.

Then observed a bridal party( all overweight young gals) eat an enormous amount of food and alcohol at at bar in Nashville.

Would I like to eat like that?  Yea.  Would I become fat?  Yea.  All choices.

The health problems brought on by obesity now and in the future  - wow.  Lots of overweight folks out there.

Exactly. Everyone's got an excuse. "I eat because I'm sad." Yeah. "I drive a quarter mile in my SUV because my knees hurt." Yeah. Everyone's got an excuse and this thread is full of excuses. Learn to love good food and cut out soda, candy, garbage, and you'll be fine.

mm1970

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Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
« Reply #87 on: October 23, 2014, 02:31:38 PM »
i guess you guys are right saving money isnt the same ... its actually harder than losing weight b/c its tied to an income you make.  being fat is tied to how much/what you put in your mouth and to a lesser extent how active you are.  both things 100% under your control. 

make excuses all you want

but thats what they are EXCUSES

It's actually not when you think about it.
You can simply work more hours and make more income right?
You can simply eat less and lose weight, right?

Except not everyone can work more hours.
And not everyone can lose weight by eating less.
It's not that simple.
Even for a single person, it changes as you age.  So why is it so hard to believe that different people are...well...different?


You simply don't want to accept it because you personally haven't experienced it.  I see similar attitudes all the time in high tech "not invented here".  So if I didn't do it myself, it doesn't exist.

I have a very good friend who has always been trim. She gained 10 lbs when she was pregnant (in her 20's), and had an 8.5 lb baby.
I met her when she was in her late 50's.
Into her 60's she was still walking a ton (does the 3-day breast cancer walk every year - it's how I met her, I've done it 3x).  She was also playing tennis and tap dancing.
In her mid 60's, her knees wouldn't let her tap dance or play tennis anymore.

She still walks every day.  She exercises about 2 hours a day with walking and weight training classes at the gym.
Last time I saw her she was complimenting me on my weight loss and complaining about how she's gained 5 lbs and can't take it off.
She only eats about 1250 calories a day, all whole foods, very few carbs.
Her doctor said simply "you're 70".
Yep, it happens to different people at different ages.  She held it off a long time.  I told her that look at it this way - the extra weight will help her weather an illness better.  And: it's only 5 lbs.  Just a little bit around the middle, you can hardly tell (but she can tell).
What worked for me at 24, at 32, at 37, just not the same at 44.

That doesn't mean I stop trying.
It just means when jerks like you look around and see a fat person, you aren't seeing the real person.
I'd like to say "I can't wait till it hits you".  But that's mean.  I don't wish extra weight on anyone.  It hurts your knees and your back and your ankles.  It's not fun at all.
I don't wish insulin resistance on anyone either.  I've started to notice that if I miss a (250 calorie) meal, I get dizzy.
It's not fun either to be 2 miles from home, pushing a stroller uphill, and having to take breaks because your blood sugar is too low.
I don't wish that on anyone either.

mm1970

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Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
« Reply #88 on: October 23, 2014, 02:37:08 PM »
i cant wake up tomorrow and decide to make 500MM dollars. and start making that money instantly. 


Why can't you make double what you make?  What is stopping you from getting a second job, working smarter or investing more? 

As far as I'm concerned doubling your income is reasonable and is 100% under your control should you set this as a goal.  Much more so than weight is for those who have been overweight based on the medical evidence in those studies.

+1

I'm pretty sure changing your income is easier than changing your genetics

I was jogging to work before injuring my knee, I guess you all would have been able to hop all the way on one leg. I try not to judge overweight people now, because I don't know why/how they got that way and throw in some physical ailments and it's a pita.

word.
Man, 40 is brutal!  It's like a switch flipped at 39.5, when I was running half marathons.  Piriformis, a sprained knee, achilles tendonitis.  One of my coworkers and I, when we were in our 30's, used to make fun of our older coworkers who complained about their joints and aches and pains after 40.  We thought they were whining!

It's not funny anymore.  I mean, I tried spinning again for the first time since my knee sprain in January and my knee ached for days.  Back to the pool I guess.  I used to think that I could make up for it in time - you know, so I could run 3 miles in 30 minutes, I'll just walk it in 60.  Except I don't have 60 minutes.

So instead, there is this HIIT stuff that you really get your metabolism going in shorter time.  Except most of it is high impact, and my joints cannot take it. I've tried to do it on the bike, but it makes my knee ache.  I've tried to do sprints in the pool, but I simply can't get a fast turnover on my stroke without my shoulders hurting.  It's a joint thing - my joints simply cannot take the intensity and/or time required to get the "burn" that I did when I was younger.

mm1970

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Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
« Reply #89 on: October 23, 2014, 02:52:23 PM »
If you actually eat 1250 calories a day without losing weight, I recommend applying for some studies - maybe medical, but more likely physics. "Woman eats fewer calories than her body expends on a daily basis but loses no weight." That would really be something, you know? You'd be famous. You'd also be the first.

There are many things that may influence you to eat more but literally the only way you gain energy is by eating, so every single bit of fat you have comes from eating. You don't get energy from the sunlight, or from the earth. You eat. If you eat too much, you grow sideways. You may have reasons for eating too much, which may even approach decent, but the single cause of being fat is your body getting more energy than it expends, on a consistent basis, which it converts by various means and with various supplies into fat. How much energy your body expends changes over time, sure, but so should your diet to accommodate that.
I never said that it wasn't working.

I've lost 20 pounds this year.
That's approximately 1/2 lb a week, though it started slightly faster and is now slightly slower.
But I think what people on this thread are missing is empathy.
If you aren't doing it, and you don't know the huge amount of effort it takes, it's hard to understand.
Constant vigilance.  CONSTANT.  For 10 months.  Weighing and measuring. 
Regular exercise.
Hours, literally hours, every weekend prepping vegetables.  Pounds and pounds of vegetables.  I easily eat 4-6 cups of vegetables a day, and did I mention that I cook for the entire family?
What worked 5 years ago isn't working anymore.  Fewer calories, and serious cut back in carbohydrates.  5 years ago, I could eat mostly vegetarian - beans and rice, etc., and still lose weight.  Cannot do that anymore.

You know when you go to a party with your friends?  I'm the one who had chicken and vegetables at home, and I'm in the corner sipping some bubble water.
You know when you go out for a mom's night to the wine bar?  I'm the one who is drinking a single glass of wine, but I had to swap it for something else (and it's my one glass for the week).
You know when you meet friends for lunch that one day a month?  I ate my salad at my desk, and I'm just drinking water and chatting.
You know when someone brings donuts to work?  I turn my head and go back to my desk and eat my apple and almonds.
That potluck?  I pass on the cookies, or cake, or brownies, or pie.
I get one day off a week - well it's really one meal off a week. And by "off", I mean, I can eat anything, as long as I don't go over about 600 calories for the meal.

For 10 months. 
And I'm still fat.
And the times when it slowed down was due to stress and sleep.  When I am stressed (layoffs, traveling husband), I don't sleep.  When I don't sleep, I don't wake up early to work out, because I need sleep.  When I'm not suffering from insomnia, I can get by on 7 hours and wake up at 4:50 am to work out before the kids wake up.  When I have 2 hours of insomnia, I cannot wake up, so I miss my workout.  But it's a combo of the lack of calorie burn AND the stress that slow down the weight loss.

I can only imagine that it's going to take more than 10 months to lose the last 20 pounds.  Because it slows down as you get closer to goal.  9 months on, many years off I guess.

For one day, I'd like to eat like a teenage boy.  I'd like to eat a burrito.  (Funny story, you can tell when a man turns 30 - in my office, the under -30's eat the whole burrito.  The over 30's save half for tomorrow.  And the women?  We don't eat burritos.)

NoraLenderbee

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Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
« Reply #90 on: October 23, 2014, 02:55:40 PM »
So let's say a given person is fat because they overeat, eat junk, and don't exercise. Why is that so terrible that that person deserves to be called names? Why do we treat it like a major moral failing? They're fat--so what? They're the ones who suffer the ill effects of their own choices. No thin person is harmed because their next-door neighbor likes to pig out on greaseburgers. I'm disgusted by the fact that it's perfectly OK in our culture to hate and demean fat people.

Hey, you know what, I think gray hair is ugly. Let's bash gray-haired people. All they have to do is dye it--if they don't, they're lazy slobs and DISGUSTING. Those of us with the genes for keeping our natural color are far superior to those old grayheads. If your genes make you gray early, it is your responsibility to society to DYE IT so you don't offend other people.

 . . .

(for the record, I'm normal weight, physically active, and have totally brown hair at age 51)

crazyworld

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Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
« Reply #91 on: October 23, 2014, 03:11:26 PM »

Exactly. Everyone's got an excuse. "I eat because I'm sad." Yeah. "I drive a quarter mile in my SUV because my knees hurt." Yeah. Everyone's got an excuse and this thread is full of excuses. Learn to love good food and cut out soda, candy, garbage, and you'll be fine.
[/quote]

What if I don't drink soda, not even diet (never have), rarely eat candy (prob. ate some as a kid, don't care for it much - too sugary tasting), garbage (what exactly?). What is your recommendation for me for magical weight loss? No really, I would love to know.  I already exercise several times a week (yoga, zumba, strength, walking; recently started running).  I love vegetables, fruit, salad, lentils, beans, eggs, nuts.  Weakness for baked goods - don't keep those at home. I eat dark chocolate to keep the cravings at bay.  Drink a lot of water, don;t like beer, wine maybe a glass every few months. 
Now, I am not obese - keeping up my healthy habits keeps at about a size 12-14.  If I am militant about it and life is going smooth, I can even be size 8-10.  That is about as low as I have managed. I still look fat, at 5'1".  Other people who are larger, may not have the time and/or knowledge to put in the work required to do all this all the time.  That is not an excuse.  Time is finite.  I bet I could really get into great shape if I was not working and had all day to exercise and prep healthy meals.  How realistic is this for everyone?  I live with a naturally thin person, who eats as I do and never exercises.  I know his body is different.   

gimp

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Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
« Reply #92 on: October 23, 2014, 03:17:02 PM »
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No thin person is harmed because their next-door neighbor likes to pig out on greaseburgers.

Would you like to hear the stories of all the medical personnel who hurt themselves, permanently, trying to move mounds of flesh? Who got stepped on? Or would you just like to hear about how insanely expensive it is for the rest of us as a society to support them. I can quote you some hilariously infuriating stories.

I mean, to be fair, it's what - 30% obese and 30% overweight? I guess it's mostly just the rest of us normals supporting the overweight majority. I'd much rather pay for food for poor people, than for medical procedures for the obese.

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What is your recommendation for me for magical weight loss? No really, I would love to know.

Keep a food diary of absolutely every thing you put into your gullet. Weigh it if you have to so you don't underestimate, I don't care. Everyone talking about trying to lose weight underestimates. Post it after a month.

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I already exercise several times a week (yoga, zumba, strength, walking; recently started running).

As I said before: exercise makes you look better and feel better but unless you're coming home feeling like a truck ran you over, you're not losing nearly as many calories as you think. Zumba, yoga, walking... not interesting. Running - for how long, how fast, up what kind of hills? Strength - how much are you lifting? Do all of those things but do them harder, faster, and more often. Build up to lifting more and more, running faster and farther. Once you actually start shedding a noticeable amount of energy through exercise, not the light version, you'll see fat gone and muscle appear. Until then, what you're doing is good but it's just baby steps and you need to know that so you don't think it's the end but know it's just the beginning.

Eric

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Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
« Reply #93 on: October 23, 2014, 03:54:32 PM »
Quote
What is your recommendation for me for magical weight loss? No really, I would love to know.

Keep a food diary of absolutely every thing you put into your gullet. Weigh it if you have to so you don't underestimate, I don't care. Everyone talking about trying to lose weight underestimates. Post it after a month.

Quote
I already exercise several times a week (yoga, zumba, strength, walking; recently started running).

As I said before: exercise makes you look better and feel better but unless you're coming home feeling like a truck ran you over, you're not losing nearly as many calories as you think. Zumba, yoga, walking... not interesting. Running - for how long, how fast, up what kind of hills? Strength - how much are you lifting? Do all of those things but do them harder, faster, and more often. Build up to lifting more and more, running faster and farther. Once you actually start shedding a noticeable amount of energy through exercise, not the light version, you'll see fat gone and muscle appear. Until then, what you're doing is good but it's just baby steps and you need to know that so you don't think it's the end but know it's just the beginning.

Your scenarios have all been great.  Really.  I mean, you're completely ignoring the fact that lots of people can get little exercise, eat poorly, drink copious amounts of alcohol, and still not have anywhere near the weight struggles that others who exercise, eat well, and actually pay attention do.  But hey, if it doesn't fit into your cute little box that you've drawn, then it must be ignored, right?  It's obviously the fault of the individual who is actually weighing and counting their food to do that a little more accurately than it would be to just accept that people are different.  Obviously.

gimp

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Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
« Reply #94 on: October 23, 2014, 04:12:45 PM »
Unless you're Einstein, nothing you're doing is changing what we know about physics. Eat less, weigh less. Nobody's that different.

Enjoy your excuses, folks. I'm out.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2014, 04:14:47 PM by gimp »

Abe

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Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
« Reply #95 on: October 23, 2014, 06:10:51 PM »
I think people need to focus less on weight. That in itself is not an important indicator of health (unless one is 'morbidly' obese). If you are "overweight" and exercising well such that you can do cardiac exercise for 30 minutes straight several times a week, your risk for heart disease and diabetes is improved regardless of what your weight does. The amount of subcutaneous fat tissue (what we regard as being "fat") is not correlated with cardiac disease. However, it does correlate with having elevated cholesterol and central fat, which is associated with the "metabolic syndrome" that leads to diabetes and associated cardiovascular inflammation. Thus, one can be 'overweight' but still have a healthy cardiovascular system. Conversely, one can be overweight and have a very sick cardiovascular system. The important part is your heart's exercise performance as a marker of overall risk for cardiovascular disease, which is the biggest cause of chronic poor health in our society. The illnesses associated with morbid obesity are more related to the inability to exercise or the food choices that do lead to the metabolic syndrome.

In summary - just exercise, build up to at least 30 minutes 3-4 times a week and you should be fine. Whether your figure improves or not is variable.

Since we're all providing personal anecdotes - I was overweight most of my teenage years into my 20s mostly because I was lazy and didn't like exercising. I lost about 30 pounds from work-related stress (surgery resident), gained about half back (2nd year - ICU! yay lunch!) and then exercised off another 40 pounds over 2 years while eating better. This is working 80-90 hours per week. I still find exercising the least interesting thing I do all day, but see it as a price I have to pay for better health later. Good luck to everyone struggling, and let us give thanks that we don't all work in the fields and die at 40 from dysentery!
« Last Edit: October 23, 2014, 06:16:20 PM by Abe »

skyrefuge

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Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
« Reply #96 on: October 23, 2014, 09:53:17 PM »
So let's say a given person is fat because they overeat, eat junk, and don't exercise. Why is that so terrible that that person deserves to be called names? Why do we treat it like a major moral failing? They're fat--so what?

Because this is the blog of Mr. Money-fucking Mustache, a man who gleefully calls people names, and preaches a philosophy in which physical fitness, diet, self-control, self-induced suffering, and intolerance for excuses are major components.

Yes, if you were somewhere else, a more touchy-feely approach might be warranted. But here? If you disagree with face-punches, you're probably at the wrong forum.

I'd like to say "I can't wait till it hits you".

I think the takeaway from this thread, particularly for younger readers, should be: don't let yourself get fat! Just like "don't let yourself fall into debt!" While it's certainly possible to dig yourself out of both holes, it's a hell of a lot harder to reach early-retirement/ideal-weight than if you had started from level ground. As you point out, we all have to fight to adjust our lifelong habits in order reduce our calorie intake as we age, just to maintain a constant weight. If we actually have to burn off a whole pile of fat on top of that, that's a whole additional level of difficulty. Especially since as we're burning off that fat, we're burning fewer calories because we aren't lugging it around anymore! Those three separate headwinds can be reduced to one if you can stay on top of your weight before it starts increasing.

golden1

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Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
« Reply #97 on: October 24, 2014, 06:53:13 AM »
Quote
Because this is the blog of Mr. Money-fucking Mustache, a man who gleefully calls people names, and preaches a philosophy in which physical fitness, diet, self-control, self-induced suffering, and intolerance for excuses are major components.

If this is all you get out of MMM, then I think that you are missing out on a lot - I see him as preaching a positive philosophy of gratitude of what one actually has, and putting things in their proper perspective.  The "facepunch" thing I see as a tongue and cheek expression for giving someone a reality check but not in a personally abusive manner.  MMM never says, "You are a real piece of shit for spending too much money."

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I've lost 20 pounds this year.
That's approximately 1/2 lb a week, though it started slightly faster and is now slightly slower.
But I think what people on this thread are missing is empathy.
If you aren't doing it, and you don't know the huge amount of effort it takes, it's hard to understand.
Constant vigilance.  CONSTANT.  For 10 months.  Weighing and measuring. 
Regular exercise.
Hours, literally hours, every weekend prepping vegetables.  Pounds and pounds of vegetables.  I easily eat 4-6 cups of vegetables a day, and did I mention that I cook for the entire family?
What worked 5 years ago isn't working anymore.  Fewer calories, and serious cut back in carbohydrates.  5 years ago, I could eat mostly vegetarian - beans and rice, etc., and still lose weight.  Cannot do that anymore.

You know when you go to a party with your friends?  I'm the one who had chicken and vegetables at home, and I'm in the corner sipping some bubble water.
You know when you go out for a mom's night to the wine bar?  I'm the one who is drinking a single glass of wine, but I had to swap it for something else (and it's my one glass for the week).
You know when you meet friends for lunch that one day a month?  I ate my salad at my desk, and I'm just drinking water and chatting.
You know when someone brings donuts to work?  I turn my head and go back to my desk and eat my apple and almonds.
That potluck?  I pass on the cookies, or cake, or brownies, or pie.
I get one day off a week - well it's really one meal off a week. And by "off", I mean, I can eat anything, as long as I don't go over about 600 calories for the meal.

I can read the sadness and discouragement in your post, and I can relate to an extent.  Something really does happen when you hit 40.  You start losing muscle mass and your metabolism begins to slow.  Aches and pains make it tougher to move.  I gained 10 lbs in a year eating the same amount of food I ate the year before, and losing it has been a lot harder.  I only also lose weight on 1200 calories a day (before adding in exercise), and it is tough, tough, tough.  Like you said, it takes constant vigilance. 

Have you tried adding in some weight training to compensate for the muscle mass loss?  I actually need to get back on board with this.  I tend to run more in the summer and do more weights in the winter.   

crazyworld

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Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
« Reply #98 on: October 24, 2014, 10:20:56 AM »
Quote
No thin person is harmed because their next-door neighbor likes to pig out on greaseburgers.

Would you like to hear the stories of all the medical personnel who hurt themselves, permanently, trying to move mounds of flesh? Who got stepped on? Or would you just like to hear about how insanely expensive it is for the rest of us as a society to support them. I can quote you some hilariously infuriating stories.

I mean, to be fair, it's what - 30% obese and 30% overweight? I guess it's mostly just the rest of us normals supporting the overweight majority. I'd much rather pay for food for poor people, than for medical procedures for the obese.

Quote
What is your recommendation for me for magical weight loss? No really, I would love to know.

Keep a food diary of absolutely every thing you put into your gullet. Weigh it if you have to so you don't underestimate, I don't care. Everyone talking about trying to lose weight underestimates. Post it after a month.

Quote
I already exercise several times a week (yoga, zumba, strength, walking; recently started running).

As I said before: exercise makes you look better and feel better but unless you're coming home feeling like a truck ran you over, you're not losing nearly as many calories as you think. Zumba, yoga, walking... not interesting. Running - for how long, how fast, up what kind of hills? Strength - how much are you lifting? Do all of those things but do them harder, faster, and more often. Build up to lifting more and more, running faster and farther. Once you actually start shedding a noticeable amount of energy through exercise, not the light version, you'll see fat gone and muscle appear. Until then, what you're doing is good but it's just baby steps and you need to know that so you don't think it's the end but know it's just the beginning.

Just curious, you do all of these things on a regular basis that you are asking me to do? ie, you weigh & measure your food and do the exercises you are recommending for me? And you are positive coming home from a workout feeling like I was run over by a truck will be good for my body in the long run?
Also, yeah I have done the food journal thing. Its good to bring everything into focus periodically.  Could I work out more - sure.  Too much heavy lifting = bulk for me - I just look fatter than ever.  Too much cardio = hunger pangs = bad food choices.  It is a fine line for me.  I find intermittant fasting helps - just don't eat. At all.  Hard to sustain forever though. 
Anyway, you are not getting the point.  Some of us struggle with maintaining our weight.  To you its all an excuse, not physiology.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2014, 10:33:19 AM by crazyworld »

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Re: "I'm obese because I don't get enough government money"
« Reply #99 on: October 24, 2014, 10:56:17 AM »
People can make all the excuses they want for being overweight. Physiology is only a small part of it. What percentage of people were overweight/obese 40 years ago as opposed to today? Do genetics change that much in 40 years where 70% of the AMERICAN population suddenly has the "fat, malfunctioning thyroid gene"? I think not. I'm not "fat shaming" anybody. I just think it is selfish and unfair for the fit/healthy people to have to pay higher medical premiums as a result of all the health issues from the 70%(which, in most cases, is preventable).

I dropped 50 pounds about two years ago. Do I still eat junk food? Yes. Do I still drink alcohol? Yes. What's different? I started exercising, cut out the soda and cut back on the alcohol and junk food. Everything in moderation.