The Money Mustache Community
Around the Internet => Antimustachian Wall of Shame and Comedy => Topic started by: elementz_m on November 10, 2017, 05:17:03 AM
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Went to visit my sister recently, and just feel like I have to vent.
She claims to be frugal, but everything about her life flies in the face of that. She never cooks at home, and has so much new stuff every time I see her that I can't quite get my head around it. This time, it was a sofa and a talking robot lady called Alexa (and of course she needed robotic curtains for Alexa to open and close, and multiple sets of speakers for her to talk through, and robot light switches, etc. etc.)
Her income is a bit of a mystery; neither she nor her husband works, they are both students. They get some government grants, and money from their parents, but I don't know exactly how much.
Anyway, the thing that set me off this time is her new sofa (I think Americans might say couch?). It is very nice, a 5 seater sofa for the two of them with reclining seats and USB charging points, and she got it for £1,000 less than the list price. She paid £750, on a student budget, for a sofa. At this point in the conversation, she told me she was frugal, because of the money off - I mean, paying £750 for a sofa is exactly the same as putting £1,000 into savings, right?
I felt spendy when I dropped £90 on ours, because we passed up on several which were cheaper/free, and told her as much. Her justification? They won't be buying another one for a few years. Does she think I replace mine every season?! I added it up today, and her sofa cost more than we paid for every single item of furniture in our house.
Anyone got any other stories about people claiming to live frugally, but actually spending far too much on absolute rubbish?
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Interesting story! Posting to follow, hopefully a story will come to me.
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Plenty of people are the "smart shopper" kind of frugal, meaning they might get decent deals on things (like how she "saved" £1,000), but they still buy a bunch of useless shit.
Getting a good deal on stuff matters less and less as you just buy less in general. I'm not saying they're mutually exclusive, but if I spend $300/mo less on crap than the next guy, I'm not going to lose my mind if I pay $100 for an office chair instead of the $80 he might have paid for the same one.
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Me: Claiming to be frugal by riding to work. On any one of the fleet of expensive bicycles that require an ENTIRE outbuilding to store.
"I saved four bucks on gas!"
said with a straight face while leaning against $1600 cargo bike
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My BIL is the exact same... Over 1 million in debt of student loans (his and hers matching of course), cars, home, charge cards... It is endless. He was recently showing me his door bell that is a camera, nest thermostat, wifi door locks, and a camera to watch the dog. He doesn't have a job and his wife is in residency. They needed a stove and bought a $1000 Samsung. Dish washer? $700 Bosch. Anytime something bad happens my MIL bails them out. I'm building a barn and I paid cash. It took me five years of side work and trading labor to get it and not affect the "master fire plan". I installed hardwood floors in my living room with a closeout that I bought wholesale. The sad part is I feel guilty spending the money that I saved for these projects and he is drinking expensive wine and going out for appetizers and sushi with his friends. The barn will allow my business to be run from my house and get everything in out of the weather. I gave him some Home Depot gift cards to work on his house and they built a fire pit and bought lawn furniture. I have used appliances and do all my own projects. Apparently the stress of debt has no ill effects on others, but I hate payments!!!!
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My BIL is the exact same... Over 1 million in debt of student loans (his and hers matching of course), cars, home, charge cards... It is endless. He was recently showing me his door bell that is a camera, nest thermostat, wifi door locks, and a camera to watch the dog. He doesn't have a job and his wife is in residency. They needed a stove and bought a $1000 Samsung. Dish washer? $700 Bosch. Anytime something bad happens my MIL bails them out. I'm building a barn and I paid cash. It took me five years of side work and trading labor to get it and not affect the "master fire plan". I installed hardwood floors in my living room with a closeout that I bought wholesale. The sad part is I feel guilty spending the money that I saved for these projects and he is drinking expensive wine and going out for appetizers and sushi with his friends. The barn will allow my business to be run from my house and get everything in out of the weather. I gave him some Home Depot gift cards to work on his house and they built a fire pit and bought lawn furniture. I have used appliances and do all my own projects. Apparently the stress of debt has no ill effects on others, but I hate payments!!!!
How did he amass this with no job to speak of?
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"I saved four bucks on gas!"
said with a straight face while leaning against $1600 cargo bike
I never realised I needed one of these, until I googled it a minute ago and found out they exist. Made in my city for the bargain price of £1,000. Wonder what they'd add for electric assistance? Damn, if only I'd saved more money. I know, I could pay on credit! At 25% interest, it's still cheaper than an SUV, so really I've saved tens of thousands.
I do want one, though. Maybe one day...
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If you're describing $1,000,000 in student loans and a wife in residency...
Wife could have a (doctor) job making $600,000 within 24 months. Perhaps they are accustomed to a lifestyle of $150,000, and they can clear that debt in four years.
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If you're describing $1,000,000 in student loans and a wife in residency...
Wife could have a (doctor) job making $600,000 within 24 months. Perhaps they are accustomed to a lifestyle of $150,000, and they can clear that debt in four years.
It's possible but in my experience (a ton of doctors, lawyers, engineers, business owners in my family) expenses only go up once they get to where they are making big bucks. For many doctors there is the mentality that because they spent so much time in schooling and did a ton of hard work and sacrifice that they "deserve" to spend their income. That definitely is their right of course, but for my cousins I've tried to counsel them to save more and have been largely ignored.
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If you're describing $1,000,000 in student loans and a wife in residency...
Wife could have a (doctor) job making $600,000 within 24 months. Perhaps they are accustomed to a lifestyle of $150,000, and they can clear that debt in four years.
How does one become accustomed to a $150,000/yr lifestyle while still in school/residency?
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LOL. Well I can't really talk about spendy people thinking they are frugal, but as someone who enjoys DIY stuff I find it funny when I have stories of gutting kitchens to the studs and re-building, or crawling under the house to fix piping (setting retaining walls, doing tile work, re-painting houses, etc), and some guy is all proud since he put together an office chair on the weekend (you know, a brand new one, that really it's just putting on the casters and the arm rests).
But on the flip side, I guess the guy that's proud of putting together a book-shelf that came in a box is still better than the person who would pay someone else to do it. So this might all be a point of view thing. I mean, he actually did touch a screw-driver (with his own hands), so that must count for something.
I did work with a lady that was sort of in line with the story the OP told. She was all about good deals on clothes and cosmetics, but she and her husband had inherited a house (for free!), and then promptly pulled out equity loans after equity loans. And after years when they started to have roofing trouble (since none of the money pulled out was used on house repairs), they nearly ended up loosing the house. Luckily family stepped in and bailed them out (two working people with decent salaries and a free house!). But she never claimed the title frugal (I think she claimed to be practical and hard-working).
And why I am thinking of her is because she always tsk-tsked me for being willing to get dirty and do work on my house. That wasn't very feminine of me.
:S
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(https://imgur.com/a/xiGfK)
I found it. This is exactly the tosh I was talking about. "Frugal...Finance available". Ha!
Edit: My image embed didn't work, I'm bad at this. https://imgur.com/a/xiGfK
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Sadly everyone thinks a doctor is instant rich... Most general practice docs make $125-150k out of residency. They will never clear that debt because of their mindset. They will get on the perpetual treadmill of life that traps most docs into a lifetime of work and never being able to "afford" the lifestyle without the pay check. Amazingly people keep lending them more money.
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Good point Capt J-rod.
A lot of people also forget that being a doctor (even general practice) entails paying a lot for malpractice insurance, professional fees, and continued education....none of which is cheap. The doctors that are making bank are the ones that specialize and get fellowships, but those take additional years of schooling/training to get to and come with higher insurance bills and more continuing education requirements.
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My BIL is the exact same... Over 1 million in debt of student loans (his and hers matching of course),
How does that happen? Even jointly, I've never heard of spouses owing that much together in student loans. Are they doctors??? Does that include their loans from four-year universities for their undergraduate degrees?
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yes and yes. Foreign medical school, undergraduate, etc... Bought a home, private loans, cars, charge cards, borrowed from family. You name it they owe it.
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How does one become accustomed to a $150,000/yr lifestyle while still in school/residency?
Peer pressure, man. When you want to be a doctor/lawyer, you have to dress the part, right? Which means spending money on clothes, accessories, hair, having the right apartment with fancy rented leather furniture, going to restaurants, having the right hobbies. I had classmates who traveled internationally several times a year--and this with near-zero income. I convinced myself at one point that I had to pay some $200 for a purse. I already had purses, but they weren't fancy enough, and what if I had to pull it out on a job interview? I sure felt dumb that time I went to a banquet in a dress from the thrift store, and all the other women had fancy rented designer dresses.
Some of this is rational--looking the part is part of getting hired. You do need to wear a suit. Some of it, though, is superstition, spending money just to alleviate anxiety over the job market and your own inadequacies.
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No one is going to be making $600k a year right after residency, unless they are doing spine surgery in Montana, maybe. Everyone else is earning at $180 - $300 for the first few years. That is still a ridiculous amount of money, though. This couple is in deep shit if they have $1 million in loans, and it will take them a decade at least to pull out.
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LOL. Well I can't really talk about spendy people thinking they are frugal, but as someone who enjoys DIY stuff I find it funny when I have stories of gutting kitchens to the studs and re-building, or crawling under the house to fix piping (setting retaining walls, doing tile work, re-painting houses, etc), and some guy is all proud since he put together an office chair on the weekend (you know, a brand new one, that really it's just putting on the casters and the arm rests).
But on the flip side, I guess the guy that's proud of putting together a book-shelf that came in a box is still better than the person who would pay someone else to do it. So this might all be a point of view thing. I mean, he actually did touch a screw-driver (with his own hands), so that must count for something.
[...]
On the other hand, you have to start somewhere ;) The first time I put an IKEA-item together all by myself I was very proud of myself too.
I also was very proud that I painted the walls of my 'dormroom' by myself (in the Netherlands, you don't live on campus, so the room doesn't belong to the uni. You just rent directly from the home-owner with a couple of other roommates). Right now, I'm also glad that I did that myself back then. The room already wasn't in a top notch condition, so there wasn't a lot I could screw up. And by the time I did buy my own house, I already had had a lot of practice, which came in quite handy.
Now I start DIY-ing more and more, and every time I'm proud of myself because I could do it. In time I learned that there's a lot you can do yourself, if you just do some pre-reading or watch a youtube video on the subject here and there. Years ago, when I was so proud I put the IKEA-chair together, I would never have thought there were much more complicated projects, that I could bring to an successful end.
So, he made a start and maybe eventually he'll pick up other, more difficult projects as well :)
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I worked in the trades for 10 years prior to getting my mech. engineering degree. I have made a to money from the trades I learned by DIY and side work. I still design as a consultant, but I do mostly HVAC, Plumbing and electrical. I just laid hardwood floors in my living room and tiled my dining room. I literally did it for pennies on the dollar. My neighbors think I'm crazy, but I pay cash for all my improvements and get an amazing product. I did my roof two years ago and I'm currently building my garage. It takes me forever, but it all gets done. The neighbors just pay people to do everything, mowing, roof, deck, power washing, snow removal, pool boy, landscaping, cleaning lady... I honestly wonder if they can tie their own shoes. I love the work and I have a ton of pride in my properties.
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A woman at work was telling us at lunch how frugal she was, more than anyone else she knows, because she waited for the Walmart sale to buy frozen meals and single serve greek yogurts, which what she and her daughter only eat for lunch (along with many other sides). These are the small boxes of frozen pasta+sauce.
The same food cooked yourself would cost half that... Those single serve yogurts are still pricey...
I kept my mouth shut after mentioning that it was possible to make your own yogurt.
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How do you learn to build a garage? YouTube videos?
Also, if you rent, are there any DYI projects doable in a small apartment to start learning this hobby (or similar)?
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Me: Claiming to be frugal by riding to work. On any one of the fleet of expensive bicycles that require an ENTIRE outbuilding to store.
"I saved four bucks on gas!"
said with a straight face while leaning against $1600 cargo bike
I swear I don't know what you're talking about.
It's a $1k mountain bike anyway... and not an entire outbuilding, just the roof space in half of a garage.
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Average student debt for a young doctor is $200,000. Put two doctors together and you're at $400,000. Another $60,000 for financed vehicles and 80% financing on a $800,000 home and you're at $1.1 million.
Sad position to be in :(
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I kept my mouth shut after mentioning that it was possible to make your own yogurt.
I looked into doing that, but for me the cost of materials and time didn't really seem to beat the convenience of buying the individual cups at Aldi... so we still buy the cups. Did I miss something?
I've also found the same to be true for pizza. By the time I factored in buying everything and taking the time to make it, I should have just bought a frozen pizza ready to go. Now I know making it myself I could have it really customized, but we're happy with the quality the frozen pizza gives too.
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How do you learn to build a garage? YouTube videos?
Also, if you rent, are there any DYI projects doable in a small apartment to start learning this hobby (or similar)?
My current plan is to start volunteering with Habitat for Humanity, learn DYI skills with OPH (other peoples houses).
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Me: Claiming to be frugal by riding to work. On any one of the fleet of expensive bicycles that require an ENTIRE outbuilding to store.
"I saved four bucks on gas!"
said with a straight face while leaning against $1600 cargo bike
I swear I don't know what you're talking about.
It's a $1k mountain bike anyway... and not an entire outbuilding, just the roof space in half of a garage.
Hey, every 500 miles you've saved ~$60... I love riding my mtb bike though...
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Sounds like my SIL. They're not doing badly -- he is a unionized driver, she does some sort of mid-level marketing job -- but she is basically a professional shopper. I mean, if you want to know which carseat to buy, call her, because she's already done all the research (thanks, btw!). She is infamous for returning things over and over, because something else was a better deal, or it didn't fit just right, etc. She knows deals, coupons, rebates, everything cold. And yet the reality is that even if you buy five things and return four, you're still buying a thing that you didn't need. Although if you're the kind of person who needs to shop as a hobby, I guess maximizing your deals and returning almost everything is the most frugal way to go about it. :-)
Then again, this is the same SIL who bought a new @$35-40K SUV, and then literally yelled at me when we bought a @$22K one*, because she knows we make more than they do -- it was as if she thought we'd chosen a cheap one just to show them up.
I think people feel "frugal" because we tend to notice everything that Other People Like Us have that we don't, but don't notice everything that we have that Other People Like Us don't. So if your friends are vacationing to France, going to Florida feels pretty frugal; but at the same time, we don't notice the guy who decided to have the staycation this year because he's saving for XX, or the one who couldn't afford to take the time off (because those guys usually aren't bragging about it).
It's like we anchor to some expectation of the lifestyle our level of income is "supposed" to provide, and so any time we buy something less than that mental picture, it feels like self-deprivation, and so we tell ourselves we are being frugal. When in reality, it's usually our lifestyle expectations that are out of whack -- no, you can't make $120K in a HCOL area and have a $700K house and two $40K cars and spend weekends at the mall and travel to Disney and the Caribbean every year and do takeout all the time because you don't cook -- at least, you can't afford to do all of that and still save for retirement and for your kids' college and all those other things you also want. No matter how much you make, it's always an "or," not an "and." Acknowledging that, and choosing which "or" you prefer, is called being a mature, responsible adult, but it doesn't make you "frugal."
*DH's vehicle irretrievably broke a week after we signed our mortgage, he wanted new and big and bling, I didn't want to spend money. So we compromised on a fully-loaded version of a low-end vehicle, which -- surprise! -- did just as well as her higher-end model.
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Talking robot ladies named Alexa are just one step on the way to that dystopian future where everyone has androids.
Did you ever notice in sci-fi movies, androids NEVER work out? Think "Blade Runner," "Alien," etc.
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Talking robot ladies named Alexa are just one step on the way to that dystopian future where everyone has androids.
Did you ever notice in sci-fi movies, androids NEVER work out? Think "Blade Runner," "Alien," etc.
There was Data. "Fully functional. Programmed in multiple techniques." He seemed to work out alright.
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Did you ever notice in sci-fi movies, androids NEVER work out? Think "Blade Runner," "Alien," etc.
I'd rather think of Iron Man (Jarvis), Futurama (Bender), and Star Trek (Data). :D
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I LOVE Data! Love that episode. Sorry I forgot him!
Talking robot ladies named Alexa are just one step on the way to that dystopian future where everyone has androids.
Did you ever notice in sci-fi movies, androids NEVER work out? Think "Blade Runner," "Alien," etc.
There was Data. "Fully functional. Programmed in multiple techniques." He seemed to work out alright.
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You have to build a hundred Lore's before you figure out what went wrong and get a Data.
I LOVE Data! Love that episode. Sorry I forgot him!
Talking robot ladies named Alexa are just one step on the way to that dystopian future where everyone has androids.
Did you ever notice in sci-fi movies, androids NEVER work out? Think "Blade Runner," "Alien," etc.
There was Data. "Fully functional. Programmed in multiple techniques." He seemed to work out alright.
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No stories like this, but I remember long ago and far away. I'm pretty frugal. Used to be more frugal. But there was a time when I had a grocery budget so tight it squeaked. I hosted a group mom/ dad/ baby meeting.
There was a mom there who was a SAHM to a newborn (I worked, our babies were the same age). Her hubby was a post-doc. She said "you think you are frugal, I'm REALLY frugal."
I didn't continue the convo but I thought it was funny that she figured because they made less money, they were clearly more frugal than me.
Anyway.
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and she got it for £1,000 less than the list price.
This is why she thinks she's frugal. She doesn't pay full price.
Being told I "saved" this or that much is one of my pet peeves, and the grocery store is the worst: Say you're talking about a fancy cheese, which is usually $10/lb but is on sale for $4 this week ... no, I didn't "save $6 ... the reality is that I would never have bought it at $10, and I consider $4 a splurge.
When the high school grocery store clerks say, "You saved X amount today!" I try to explain to them that you save at the bank and spend at the store -- most of them can't comprehend it. I don't do it if my kids are with me though because -- although they understand the concept perfectly well -- they find it embarrassing.
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When the high school grocery store clerks say, "You saved X amount today!" I try to explain to them that you save at the bank and spend at the store -- most of them can't comprehend it. I don't do it if my kids are with me though because -- although they understand the concept perfectly well -- they find it embarrassing.
This drives me crazy like nothing else. Luckily the only places nearby that do this are clothing/shoe stores, and I haven't had to deal with that in a few years.
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The problem is the word "save" has two different, but legitimate, definitions. It can mean "putting money aside for later" and it can mean "paying less than full price" for a product.
No one would argue that putting money aside is a bad idea. And no one would argue paying less than full price is a bad idea. Both are legitimate and useful concepts. The problem comes when we confuse the two definitions. When you save money at the store, you are paying less than full price, which is a good thing. But it is not equal to putting money aside for later, but nobody said it was. I think most people can tell which meaning is intended, from the context.
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The problem is the word "save" has two different, but legitimate, definitions. It can mean "putting money aside for later" and it can mean "paying less than full price" for a product.
No one would argue that putting money aside is a bad idea. And no one would argue paying less than full price is a bad idea. Both are legitimate and useful concepts. The problem comes when we confuse the two definitions. When you save money at the store, you are paying less than full price, which is a good thing. But it is not equal to putting money aside for later, but nobody said it was. I think most people can tell which meaning is intended, from the context.
And that very explanation is what embarrasses my kids when I'm at the grocery store check-out!
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I've also found the same to be true for pizza. By the time I factored in buying everything and taking the time to make it, I should have just bought a frozen pizza ready to go. Now I know making it myself I could have it really customized, but we're happy with the quality the frozen pizza gives too.
While that's true, the quality is not really comparable. It's like buying frozen fried chicken and cooking it in an oven vs fresh frying it. Cost-wise I think I calculated it out one time, a fresh pizza for us costs $3-8 depending on the toppings and whatnot.
Is the frozen stuff good? Yeah, even the worst pizza is still pizza. But the fresh stuff is REALLY good.
With that being said, we usually make pizza with around 8 total people, since making 3-4 pizzas is only slightly more work and cost than making 1. It's also just a fun thing for me, but I get not everyone would enjoy it.
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I kept my mouth shut after mentioning that it was possible to make your own yogurt.
I looked into doing that, but for me the cost of materials and time didn't really seem to beat the convenience of buying the individual cups at Aldi... so we still buy the cups. Did I miss something?
I've also found the same to be true for pizza. By the time I factored in buying everything and taking the time to make it, I should have just bought a frozen pizza ready to go. Now I know making it myself I could have it really customized, but we're happy with the quality the frozen pizza gives too.
I checked the yogurt prices. It only really matters if you eat a lot. If you only eat $10 of yogurt a month, does it really matter?
We eat a lot of yogurt. Making my own versus buying:
a) If we can eat 2 gallons of yogurt in under 20 days, reliably, the bulk 2 gallon tub is about the same cost as making it myself. BUT, this tub gets moldy faster than the smaller quart size tubs that can last 10 weeks in my fridge. (different brand / handling). I have thrown out too much yogurt attempting the bulk purchase, so I have stopped.
b) The 3/4 quart tubs (Activia is actually now only 3/5 of a quart) -- cost 3x to 6x more than making myself, depending on the sales available.
c) Single serve can also cost 3x to 8x more... depending on sales. Greek style is closer to 4x to 6x more than homemade version.
Assuming we can eat 2 gallons of yogurt in a month, then option b) would save me $25 to $45 per month.*
*note, I add a trace of maple syrup or homemade jam or plain, so sweetener is not costed here.
Even better -- when I make Calzones, I make my own ricotta cheese, first, that saves a lot of cost versus buying cheese. Ricotta is also very easy if you like a soft fresh cheese.
Pizza -- make your own is cheaper than take out. Hard to make it cheaper than cheap frozen. I made pizza last night, it was fantastic. With toppings, but no meat, it cost $10 for the 4 of us to have 2.5 large thin pizzas. Most comparable to the thin crust Dr. Oetker ones, that cost $3 (on sale) for a medium... and we would need at least $10 of those frozen pizzas to feed us, too.
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My mom has always made yogurt and I believe most of my aunts do so. Growing up yogurt was served with dinner each night with some masalas added to it so it makes sense for my mom to make it herself. She would cook it in the oven at a low temperature. She also made roti and most other Indian staples from scratch. I didn't fully appreciate my mom for making so much homemade until I saw that what she does is not typical.
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My mom has always made yogurt and I believe most of my aunts do so. Growing up yogurt was served with dinner each night with some masalas added to it so it makes sense for my mom to make it herself. She would cook it in the oven at a low temperature. She also made roti and most other Indian staples from scratch. I didn't fully appreciate my mom for making so much homemade until I saw that what she does is not typical.
I did two attempt at making yoghurt (from 0.5 % fat milk). Both times it failed because it fell apart after a while. I found out that it is a lot of work and the milk is not cheap. I don't really save money on it and for me it was not worth it.
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The problem is the word "save" has two different, but legitimate, definitions. It can mean "putting money aside for later" and it can mean "paying less than full price" for a product.
No one would argue that putting money aside is a bad idea. And no one would argue paying less than full price is a bad idea. Both are legitimate and useful concepts. The problem comes when we confuse the two definitions. When you save money at the store, you are paying less than full price, which is a good thing. But it is not equal to putting money aside for later, but nobody said it was. I think most people can tell which meaning is intended, from the context.
This post seems relevant to the discussion: http://www.budgetsaresexy.com/spavings-savings-account/
If you buy something you wouldn't have otherwise just because it's on sale, you're spending. If you would have bought it anyway and bank the difference, or decide not to buy it and actually save the money instead, you're spaving!
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My mom has always made yogurt and I believe most of my aunts do so. Growing up yogurt was served with dinner each night with some masalas added to it so it makes sense for my mom to make it herself. She would cook it in the oven at a low temperature. She also made roti and most other Indian staples from scratch. I didn't fully appreciate my mom for making so much homemade until I saw that what she does is not typical.
I did two attempt at making yoghurt (from 0.5 % fat milk). Both times it failed because it fell apart after a while. I found out that it is a lot of work and the milk is not cheap. I don't really save money on it and for me it was not worth it.
Yeah, you have to add skim milk powder and / or gelatin to make good low fat milk yogurt. Much better to start with whole milk. The yield cost is 1:1... For every litre of milk, you get a litre of yogurt... for greek yogurt it is about 2:1.. 2 litres of milk = 1 litre of greek style yogurt.
It is possible that your whole milk is the same cost per litre as yogurt, .... very easy to check next time you are at the store.
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Comparison is the thief of joy.
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I sometimes question I am actually frugal, or if I'm just boring. But I think someone made the point above that even though I might spend a few hundred bucks on a luxury office chair, or eat out for lunch more than I should, I shouldn't lose my mind over it because at least I'm not blowing my paychecks on quads, sleds, etc. like most of my peers.
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The problem is the word "save" has two different, but legitimate, definitions. It can mean "putting money aside for later" and it can mean "paying less than full price" for a product.
No one would argue that putting money aside is a bad idea. And no one would argue paying less than full price is a bad idea. Both are legitimate and useful concepts. The problem comes when we confuse the two definitions. When you save money at the store, you are paying less than full price, which is a good thing. But it is not equal to putting money aside for later, but nobody said it was. I think most people can tell which meaning is intended, from the context.
This post seems relevant to the discussion: http://www.budgetsaresexy.com/spavings-savings-account/
If you buy something you wouldn't have otherwise just because it's on sale, you're spending. If you would have bought it anyway and bank the difference, or decide not to buy it and actually save the money instead, you're spaving!
I agree. That's why I don't do recreational shopping any more. Everything is "on sale" and I'll see stuff I don't need and wouldn't have bought, if I hadn't seen it in the store windows.
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My mom has always made yogurt and I believe most of my aunts do so. Growing up yogurt was served with dinner each night with some masalas added to it so it makes sense for my mom to make it herself. She would cook it in the oven at a low temperature. She also made roti and most other Indian staples from scratch. I didn't fully appreciate my mom for making so much homemade until I saw that what she does is not typical.
I did two attempt at making yoghurt (from 0.5 % fat milk). Both times it failed because it fell apart after a while. I found out that it is a lot of work and the milk is not cheap. I don't really save money on it and for me it was not worth it.
Yeah, you have to add skim milk powder and / or gelatin to make good low fat milk yogurt. Much better to start with whole milk. The yield cost is 1:1... For every litre of milk, you get a litre of yogurt... for greek yogurt it is about 2:1.. 2 litres of milk = 1 litre of greek style yogurt.
It is possible that your whole milk is the same cost per litre as yogurt, .... very easy to check next time you are at the store.
I make yogurt every three days (we eat yogurt with every meal like MgoSam) and make most of the Indian stuff at home. We do get some of the hard to make stuff (anything needing more than one hour of prep effort for that dish). The first time a colleague said they bought all the meals outside (we have free breakfast and lunch at work but they preferred to go out), I was so stunned that I didn't know how to react. He not only got meals for himself but also for his family of five. His wife sends him a text at 5 everyday to say what to get where, he orders it and starts from work, pick it up on the way and goes home. He said he's been doing it for the past 15 years. Money issues aside, I'm wondering how much it has affected his health and his family's health.
For yogurt, I use whole milk, heat it a bit more than warm and add the yogurt starter. I then leave it overnight on the counter and it's ready in the morning. We tried getting the yogurt in shop but felt a difference in taste and switched back to home made.
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I'd like to make my own yogurt. The yogurt in grocery stores is loaded with sugar.
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I'd like to make my own yogurt. The yogurt in grocery stores is loaded with sugar.
The plain yogurt isn't. Toss some berries or whatever in and you're good to go.
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I checked the yogurt prices. It only really matters if you eat a lot. If you only eat $10 of yogurt a month, does it really matter?
Yeah, I think I like knowing how to make homemade yogurt more than I like actually making homemade yogurt -- does that make any sense?
Let me say it differently: I very much like knowing that I have "skills", even if it's not practical to use those skills on a regular basis. I can make good homemade yogurt, but I'm the only person in the house who eats it, and it doesn't have a forever lifespan ... so I tend to buy it at the store. It's not practical to make a bitty-bit homemade, and if I don't eat it all, I was wasteful instead of thrifty. Regardless, I am glad that I know how to do it, and I do it every now and again just to please myself.
This post seems relevant to the discussion: http://www.budgetsaresexy.com/spavings-savings-account/
If you buy something you wouldn't have otherwise just because it's on sale, you're spending. If you would have bought it anyway and bank the difference, or decide not to buy it and actually save the money instead, you're spaving!
I like the term "spaving", and I use it frequently ... but I'm not exactly on board with the concept of setting up an account to "save my spavings". They gave the example of buying a Panera coffee at $1 off ... see, I'd never pay for a Panera coffee in the first place, so why would I ever buy one at $1 off?
Maybe the concept is worthwhile for people who are just learning frugal ways.
I agree. That's why I don't do recreational shopping any more. Everything is "on sale" and I'll see stuff I don't need and wouldn't have bought, if I hadn't seen it in the store windows.
I'm not a Catholic, but that church has a teaching (quite a few teachings, actually) that makes sense to me: Avoid places that tempt you on a personal level. For example, if you have a problem with alcohol, you should not go to bars --- they are places that tempt you on a personal level. If you have a problem with overeating, you should avoid buffets -- they will tempt you to overeat.
The same thought process holds true for people who aren't very disciplined in their spending. Don't hang out at the mall. Don't use shopping as a hobby. Those habits will tempt those who are prone to impulse buying into spending.
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My mom has always made yogurt and I believe most of my aunts do so. Growing up yogurt was served with dinner each night with some masalas added to it so it makes sense for my mom to make it herself. She would cook it in the oven at a low temperature. She also made roti and most other Indian staples from scratch. I didn't fully appreciate my mom for making so much homemade until I saw that what she does is not typical.
Ummmm I want to go to dinner at your parents' house. YUM.
My only not-really-frugal story is more of a Give a Mouse a Cookie tale in which a former fella, let's call him Give a Hippie a Pipe Wrench, decided he'd fix my tub spout for pennies. In a 1953 house with the original galvanized pipes. Needless to say there were many many trips to Home Depot and many new sections of pipe behind that wall....
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I'd like to make my own yogurt. The yogurt in grocery stores is loaded with sugar.
You can buy unsweetened, plain yogurt, and add your own toppings, too. Don't have to buy sweetened yogurt ya know.
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I'd like to make my own yogurt. The yogurt in grocery stores is loaded with sugar.
You can buy unsweetened, plain yogurt, and add your own toppings, too. Don't have to buy sweetened yogurt ya know.
Or you can add a spoonful of homemade jam and make whatever flavor of yogurt you like. Depending on the recipe you use for the jam it may not have any extra sugar at all in it.
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The first time a colleague said they bought all the meals outside (we have free breakfast and lunch at work but they preferred to go out), I was so stunned that I didn't know how to react. He not only got meals for himself but also for his family of five. His wife sends him a text at 5 everyday to say what to get where, he orders it and starts from work, pick it up on the way and goes home. He said he's been doing it for the past 15 years. Money issues aside, I'm wondering how much it has affected his health and his family's health.
Eating out is nice and all but any time I travel for work, I'm done with eating out after the second day. I'm unlikely to enjoy a very expensive meal and affordable meals at franchise restaurants aren't that amazing. I try to look for those family owned hole in the wall places.
That said I've renewed my effort to avoid eating out at lunch with coworkers. SO EASY to fall into that trap again with the false notion of convenience.
Get in the car, drive somewhere, park the car, eat, pay, get back into the car, return to work and search for parking, etc. All that wear and tear.
Or I could get my lunch from home out, and eat it. Then go for a walk if the weather is nice. No money changing hands. No traffic or parking probs.
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Or I could get my lunch from home out, and eat it. Then go for a walk if the weather is nice. No money changing hands. No traffic or parking probs.
Since I started the 9-5 I have been using almost the full break period to take a walk, usually getting about 4 miles in along the river. And then I just eat at my desk which takes like 5 minutes. People wonder how I walk so much, but they waste this time every day. I don't know how they do it. I need as much time outside as possible.
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My mom has always made yogurt and I believe most of my aunts do so. Growing up yogurt was served with dinner each night with some masalas added to it so it makes sense for my mom to make it herself. She would cook it in the oven at a low temperature. She also made roti and most other Indian staples from scratch. I didn't fully appreciate my mom for making so much homemade until I saw that what she does is not typical.
I did two attempt at making yoghurt (from 0.5 % fat milk). Both times it failed because it fell apart after a while. I found out that it is a lot of work and the milk is not cheap. I don't really save money on it and for me it was not worth it.
Yeah, you have to add skim milk powder and / or gelatin to make good low fat milk yogurt. Much better to start with whole milk. The yield cost is 1:1... For every litre of milk, you get a litre of yogurt... for greek yogurt it is about 2:1.. 2 litres of milk = 1 litre of greek style yogurt.
It is possible that your whole milk is the same cost per litre as yogurt, .... very easy to check next time you are at the store.
To this excellent info, I'd like to add that there's an environmental cost to all those little plastic cups...
I usually make yogurt in an Instant Pot, but I also like this bulletproof method from the Frugal Girl. One more often overlooked point is that it is easy to scale down. You don't have to make it a gallon at a time. You can even make single serving batches, if you wish. Canning jars are great for the FG method and are endlessly re-usable. I've attached her Troubleshooting Guide, which in turn has a link to the basic method.
http://www.thefrugalgirl.com/2013/09/homemade-yogurt-troubleshooting-guide/
Finally, when I don't DIY it, I buy the large tub of plain yogurt at Costco, which is pretty cost effective and lasts well. Plus it has the benefit of less added sugar. I wash and re-use the containers or donate them to the local art center. They're great for individual tubs of stovetop popped popcorn on movie night, plus a zillion other things, because they have real lids.
Edit: typo
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I love making yogurt in the Instant Pot and have done it in jars before too.
I agree re the plastic usage.
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My mom has always made yogurt and I believe most of my aunts do so. Growing up yogurt was served with dinner each night with some masalas added to it so it makes sense for my mom to make it herself. She would cook it in the oven at a low temperature. She also made roti and most other Indian staples from scratch. I didn't fully appreciate my mom for making so much homemade until I saw that what she does is not typical.
Ummmm I want to go to dinner at your parents' house. YUM.
Minnesota Meetup at MgoSam's parents' house? ;-)
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For yogurt, I use whole milk, heat it a bit more than warm and add the yogurt starter. I then leave it overnight on the counter and it's ready in the morning. We tried getting the yogurt in shop but felt a difference in taste and switched back to home made.
Curious - do you find weather has anything to do with it? That's how my mother made yogurt back home in Asia. I haven't attempted this style yet. Here in Canada, I use my Instant Pot and boil it quite a bit first. I definitely don't get 1-1 milk to yogurt.
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For yogurt, I use whole milk, heat it a bit more than warm and add the yogurt starter. I then leave it overnight on the counter and it's ready in the morning. We tried getting the yogurt in shop but felt a difference in taste and switched back to home made.
Curious - do you find weather has anything to do with it? That's how my mother made yogurt back home in Asia. I haven't attempted this style yet. Here in Canada, I use my Instant Pot and boil it quite a bit first. I definitely don't get 1-1 milk to yogurt.
Hmmm, I don't boil it. In fact, IIRC, it's important NOT to boil the milk. Maybe it's that?
Confessional moment: I have cheated and taken most of the chill off the milk by microwaving it first, being careful not to let it get too hot. Otherwise, I just set the fresh milk out on the counter and start the process at room temperature.
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Minnesota Meetup at MgoSam's parents' house? ;-)
I like that idea! :)
--Before I used my Instant Pot for yogurt making and used jars similar to the frugalgirl link above, weather definitely affected my culturing. It also affected my kefir cultures- water kefir in particular has never been happy in the summer in my kitchen.
I've boiled the milk first in the IP, too - just following the directions. The idea is to kill off "bad" bacteria before you introduce your starter. But I didn't even think about the fact that I never did that in jars or with kefir grains, and if it's milk I'm drinking and would consume within a few days as yogurt it shouldn't make a difference bacteria-wise. I haven't had a bad/contaminated batch yet that I know of ;) Skipping that step in the IP would save a lot of time.
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For yogurt, I use whole milk, heat it a bit more than warm and add the yogurt starter. I then leave it overnight on the counter and it's ready in the morning. We tried getting the yogurt in shop but felt a difference in taste and switched back to home made.
Curious - do you find weather has anything to do with it? That's how my mother made yogurt back home in Asia. I haven't attempted this style yet. Here in Canada, I use my Instant Pot and boil it quite a bit first. I definitely don't get 1-1 milk to yogurt.
Hmmm, I don't boil it. In fact, IIRC, it's important NOT to boil the milk. Maybe it's that?
Confessional moment: I have cheated and taken most of the chill off the milk by microwaving it first, being careful not to let it get too hot. Otherwise, I just set the fresh milk out on the counter and start the process at room temperature.
My current recipe calls for getting the milk over 180 degrees. I have found that if I get it over 200 degrees, it sets thicker and I don't have my excess whey. My yogurt is good, but it will certainly be worth giving your method a shot.
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For yogurt, I use whole milk, heat it a bit more than warm and add the yogurt starter. I then leave it overnight on the counter and it's ready in the morning. We tried getting the yogurt in shop but felt a difference in taste and switched back to home made.
Curious - do you find weather has anything to do with it? That's how my mother made yogurt back home in Asia. I haven't attempted this style yet. Here in Canada, I use my Instant Pot and boil it quite a bit first. I definitely don't get 1-1 milk to yogurt.
Hmmm, I don't boil it. In fact, IIRC, it's important NOT to boil the milk. Maybe it's that?
Confessional moment: I have cheated and taken most of the chill off the milk by microwaving it first, being careful not to let it get too hot. Otherwise, I just set the fresh milk out on the counter and start the process at room temperature.
My current recipe calls for getting the milk over 180 degrees. I have found that if I get it over 200 degrees, it sets thicker and I don't have my excess whey. My yogurt is good, but it will certainly be worth giving your method a shot.
I live in California so that might mean more warm dry weather than most of US and Canada. My cousin makes it similarly but uses a heating pad that she got for $10 on colder nights. She lives in Chicago. I've also made yogurt in instant pot but I found it got more whey than the counter method.
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For yogurt, I use whole milk, heat it a bit more than warm and add the yogurt starter. I then leave it overnight on the counter and it's ready in the morning. We tried getting the yogurt in shop but felt a difference in taste and switched back to home made.
Curious - do you find weather has anything to do with it? That's how my mother made yogurt back home in Asia. I haven't attempted this style yet. Here in Canada, I use my Instant Pot and boil it quite a bit first. I definitely don't get 1-1 milk to yogurt.
Where does the rest of the liquid from the milk go?
Greek yogurt is strained, so closer to 2:1 and I use the "cow water" for making bread... but basic yogurt -nothing pours off, so 1:1 ?
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For yogurt, I use whole milk, heat it a bit more than warm and add the yogurt starter. I then leave it overnight on the counter and it's ready in the morning. We tried getting the yogurt in shop but felt a difference in taste and switched back to home made.
Curious - do you find weather has anything to do with it? That's how my mother made yogurt back home in Asia. I haven't attempted this style yet. Here in Canada, I use my Instant Pot and boil it quite a bit first. I definitely don't get 1-1 milk to yogurt.
Where does the rest of the liquid from the milk go?
Greek yogurt is strained, so closer to 2:1 and I use the "cow water" for making bread... but basic yogurt -nothing pours off, so 1:1 ?
Mostly in excess whey.
I'll have to give this method a shot. Sounds easier too. A heating pad may be in my future. Especially since we just started making coconut water legit and those grains sure need some nursing! They are currently hanging out in front of a portable heater lol.
Sent from my STH100-1 using Tapatalk
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My yogurt will make a bit of whey, but I stir it back in, and it is less than 10% unless I am deliberately straining it.
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The problem is the word "save" has two different, but legitimate, definitions. It can mean "putting money aside for later" and it can mean "paying less than full price" for a product.
No one would argue that putting money aside is a bad idea. And no one would argue paying less than full price is a bad idea. Both are legitimate and useful concepts. The problem comes when we confuse the two definitions. When you save money at the store, you are paying less than full price, which is a good thing. But it is not equal to putting money aside for later, but nobody said it was. I think most people can tell which meaning is intended, from the context.
I'm looking for X, and willing to spend Y on it. The store has X for 1.5Y, but it's 1/3 off. Did I save anything when I buy it? That's my problem when they say here's how much you saved!! I might have saved some of it, but I definitely didn't save the amount they are stating.
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The problem is the word "save" has two different, but legitimate, definitions. It can mean "putting money aside for later" and it can mean "paying less than full price" for a product.
No one would argue that putting money aside is a bad idea. And no one would argue paying less than full price is a bad idea. Both are legitimate and useful concepts. The problem comes when we confuse the two definitions. When you save money at the store, you are paying less than full price, which is a good thing. But it is not equal to putting money aside for later, but nobody said it was. I think most people can tell which meaning is intended, from the context.
I'm looking for X, and willing to spend Y on it. The store has X for 1.5Y, but it's 1/3 off. Did I save anything when I buy it? That's my problem when they say here's how much you saved!! I might have saved some of it, but I definitely didn't save the amount they are stating.
This is how I think now, the Mustachian way:
I really need X. The range of X products are priced from Y to X. When there is sale, you can usually buy an unfancy X for 1/2 Y. Therefore I am willing to pay 1/2 Y. In the shop, there is an X for 1/2 Y, an several other Xs for much more than Y. The one for 1/2 Y fits well and I buy it. I spend 1/2 Y, buy also save 1/2 Y, because for normal not reduced price is Y.
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The problem is the word "save" has two different, but legitimate, definitions. It can mean "putting money aside for later" and it can mean "paying less than full price" for a product.
No one would argue that putting money aside is a bad idea. And no one would argue paying less than full price is a bad idea. Both are legitimate and useful concepts. The problem comes when we confuse the two definitions. When you save money at the store, you are paying less than full price, which is a good thing. But it is not equal to putting money aside for later, but nobody said it was. I think most people can tell which meaning is intended, from the context.
I'm looking for X, and willing to spend Y on it. The store has X for 1.5Y, but it's 1/3 off. Did I save anything when I buy it? That's my problem when they say here's how much you saved!! I might have saved some of it, but I definitely didn't save the amount they are stating.
This is how I think now, the Mustachian way:
I really need X. The range of X products are priced from Y to X. When there is sale, you can usually buy an unfancy X for 1/2 Y. Therefore I am willing to pay 1/2 Y. In the shop, there is an X for 1/2 Y, an several other Xs for much more than Y. The one for 1/2 Y fits well and I buy it. I spend 1/2 Y, buy also save 1/2 Y, because for normal not reduced price is Y.
I have a different way of doing things. If I want something, I first think what it's worth to me and then set aside that amount from the budget.
If I think it's worth £50 But the price is £100, I don't buy it. If it comes on offer for £50, I buy it, but I haven't saved anything - I've paid what I consider a fair price.
If, however, I think it's worth £50 And it turns out they only cost £35 (even if that's "full price") then I've saved £15. I've paid £35 when I would have been happy to pay £50, and get to put £15 into savings.
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Me: Claiming to be frugal by riding to work. On any one of the fleet of expensive bicycles that require an ENTIRE outbuilding to store.
"I saved four bucks on gas!"
said with a straight face while leaning against $1600 cargo bike
I swear I don't know what you're talking about.
It's a $1k mountain bike anyway... and not an entire outbuilding, just the roof space in half of a garage.
Hey, every 500 miles you've saved ~$60... I love riding my mtb bike though...
Well if you can save money on a $1K bike, I'm probably generating cash with my $30 bike I got at a yard sale! I'm going to look around the house to see where it's piling up.
I'm not much of a bike connoisseur, but I am happy with my Trek mountain bike, I have had it 2 years and just recently found it's an 18 speed, not that I have any use for more than about 5 speeds.
btw I might be in the running for oldest bike--1996.
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I probably won't get any points around here for this, but I buy and sell items all the time to get nicer things. I'm on my third camper for the family. I have bought, fixed up, and sold two campers to pay cash for this one. Kinda like "one red paperclip" but with tons of sweat equity. Before the leaf and Prius drivers face punch me... I have a truck that I drive for work that I tow it with on our road trip, and we mostly boon dock or stay in state parks for $25/ night. Yes I need my truck as a HVAC/plumbing contractor. I also have a snow blower, chainsaw, lawn mower etc... I buy them at yard sales and auctions, fix and tune them up and sell them. My personal equipment is like brand new thanks to the profits off the other stuff. My tool collection is endless thanks to the work I do and my properties. In our disposable society, I get tons of items for nearly nothing and fix a few problems. A little advice for everyone, drain out all of your fuel when an item is not in use and run it out of gas. The fuel systems are 95% of all problems. Change your air filters.
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I probably won't get any points around here for this, but I buy and sell items all the time to get nicer things. I'm on my third camper for the family. I have bought, fixed up, and sold two campers to pay cash for this one. Kinda like "one red paperclip" but with tons of sweat equity. Before the leaf and Prius drivers face punch me... I have a truck that I drive for work that I tow it with on our road trip, and we mostly boon dock or stay in state parks for $25/ night. Yes I need my truck as a HVAC/plumbing contractor. I also have a snow blower, chainsaw, lawn mower etc... I buy them at yard sales and auctions, fix and tune them up and sell them. My personal equipment is like brand new thanks to the profits off the other stuff. My tool collection is endless thanks to the work I do and my properties. In our disposable society, I get tons of items for nearly nothing and fix a few problems. A little advice for everyone, drain out all of your fuel when an item is not in use and run it out of gas. The fuel systems are 95% of all problems. Change your air filters.
I think that's pretty mustachian actually! Instead of going to the store and buying brand new super fancy pieces of equipment that you only use once (which would be stupid) you have fixed up these tools (saving them from landfill) and you use them for both business and pleasure and sell them for profit. That's a very good business plan. My fiance does that with music gear. And there's certainly nothing wrong with owning a nice camper outright that you restored yourself and use to travel around on the cheap. It's stupid to buy a brand new camper, buy a special truck to haul it that you don't need otherwise, and use borrowed money for both the purchases.
And as for tools you need frequently, I truly do believe in getting the best tool you can afford. I own good quality cast iron cookware, a name brand sewing machine and fabric scissors that cost $30. These tools were an investment once, but they give me better, easier and quicker results. I own a basic drill because my DIY is simple: it doesn't get much more complicated than putting up shelves or building a bookcase. It would be a waste for me to get the most expensive fancy model, but it might be a good investment for someone else. I try to get these things used or on sale when I can, but I don't mind paying full price if I really can't find them used.
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I probably won't get any points around here for this, but I buy and sell items all the time to get nicer things. I'm on my third camper for the family. I have bought, fixed up, and sold two campers to pay cash for this one. Kinda like "one red paperclip" but with tons of sweat equity. Before the leaf and Prius drivers face punch me... I have a truck that I drive for work that I tow it with on our road trip, and we mostly boon dock or stay in state parks for $25/ night. Yes I need my truck as a HVAC/plumbing contractor. I also have a snow blower, chainsaw, lawn mower etc... I buy them at yard sales and auctions, fix and tune them up and sell them. My personal equipment is like brand new thanks to the profits off the other stuff. My tool collection is endless thanks to the work I do and my properties. In our disposable society, I get tons of items for nearly nothing and fix a few problems. A little advice for everyone, drain out all of your fuel when an item is not in use and run it out of gas. The fuel systems are 95% of all problems. Change your air filters.
Sounds pretty badass to me, actually.
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Before I started my company I did lots of work for friends and family on the side. Every penny went into the tools needed to run a business. My rentals are a side company all to themselves. I never take any money away from them and use the income to buy more properties. I now have literally an arsenal of tools and equipment. I finally got my new shop built in my back yard. It took all my side cash and a ton of favors from my buddies. I traded out a bunch of work as well. It also took me two months to get it framed up and dried in. Now I am saving for concrete next summer. I paid cash for the whole deal, no debt. It has been a huge setback financially, but long term it will be worth it. Ironically I got it up before the lumber prices blew up! Now I will have everything inside and in one place.
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Comparison is the thief of joy.
Maybe, but it sure as hell is the muse of guilty pleasure.
Now tell me more about broke-ass doctors.
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I checked the yogurt prices. It only really matters if you eat a lot. If you only eat $10 of yogurt a month, does it really matter?
Yeah, I think I like knowing how to make homemade yogurt more than I like actually making homemade yogurt -- does that make any sense?
Let me say it differently: I very much like knowing that I have "skills", even if it's not practical to use those skills on a regular basis. I can make good homemade yogurt, but I'm the only person in the house who eats it, and it doesn't have a forever lifespan ... so I tend to buy it at the store. It's not practical to make a bitty-bit homemade, and if I don't eat it all, I was wasteful instead of thrifty. Regardless, I am glad that I know how to do it, and I do it every now and again just to please myself.
This post seems relevant to the discussion: http://www.budgetsaresexy.com/spavings-savings-account/
If you buy something you wouldn't have otherwise just because it's on sale, you're spending. If you would have bought it anyway and bank the difference, or decide not to buy it and actually save the money instead, you're spaving!
I like the term "spaving", and I use it frequently ... but I'm not exactly on board with the concept of setting up an account to "save my spavings". They gave the example of buying a Panera coffee at $1 off ... see, I'd never pay for a Panera coffee in the first place, so why would I ever buy one at $1 off?
Maybe the concept is worthwhile for people who are just learning frugal ways.
I agree. That's why I don't do recreational shopping any more. Everything is "on sale" and I'll see stuff I don't need and wouldn't have bought, if I hadn't seen it in the store windows.
I'm not a Catholic, but that church has a teaching (quite a few teachings, actually) that makes sense to me: Avoid places that tempt you on a personal level. For example, if you have a problem with alcohol, you should not go to bars --- they are places that tempt you on a personal level. If you have a problem with overeating, you should avoid buffets -- they will tempt you to overeat.
The same thought process holds true for people who aren't very disciplined in their spending. Don't hang out at the mall. Don't use shopping as a hobby. Those habits will tempt those who are prone to impulse buying into spending.
SO MUCH AGREEMENT! THIS! I used to go to the mall because I was lonely and bored. And while I was there, I'd have a coke and a slice of pizza. And purchase a paperback at the bookstore. And maybe a few inexpensive things that made me feel better. None of those things were going to break me, but when you added it all up, I could spend $20- $40 in one 3 hour visit to the mall, with money in my pocket and sadness in my heart. And then I got super busy with a real life that included going to the library about 3 times a week, having hobbies like quilting, having dogs that need to be walked twice a day...and if I've been to any mall more than twice a year in 15 years, it would surprise me.
Stay away from places that tempt you to frivolously spend on impulses. Target and Bed Bath and Beyond are two of my places to stay away from. They have something in the air that encourages me to buy CHEAP CRAP FROM CHINA THAT I DO NOT NEED. Now when I go there, I have a list, buy what's on the list, and get the heck out of Dodge.
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btw I might be in the running for oldest bike--1996.
Mine is from 1989, but you probably ride more than I do. I bought my bike to commute to grad school, my riding dropped a lot once I started having kids, and now I'm trying to get back into it.
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btw I might be in the running for oldest bike--1996.
Mine is from 1989, but you probably ride more than I do. I bought my bike to commute to grad school, my riding dropped a lot once I started having kids, and now I'm trying to get back into it.
My oldest was an awesome 1973 Nishiki, but I've ridden with someone in France who
was on a bike built in the 1920's!
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My SIL decided that she should start coupon-ing to save money but 1st she had to go spend $20 on newspapers. I have no clue how much she spends on newspapers per week now, but I do know that she was asking if I needed any laundry detergent because she got a really good deal on a lot of it.
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Extreme coupon if leads to warehousing a bunch of junk that was too good of a deal to pass up. My buddy's wife does it and their basement is FULL of toothpaste, laundry detergent, paper towels, ... you name it. I'm all for saving money, but it also leads to buying things that aren't needed. I buy what I need when I need it. I keep meat, rice, and canned goods stocked when on sale. I have seen his wife buy more of the same item because it was too good of a deal to pass up. When you have 12 jugs of liquid tide did you really need three more?
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Extreme coupon if leads to warehousing a bunch of junk that was too good of a deal to pass up. My buddy's wife does it and their basement is FULL of toothpaste, laundry detergent, paper towels, ... you name it. I'm all for saving money, but it also leads to buying things that aren't needed. I buy what I need when I need it. I keep meat, rice, and canned goods stocked when on sale. I have seen his wife buy more of the same item because it was too good of a deal to pass up. When you have 12 jugs of liquid tide did you really need three more?
I just flew over their house and took a photo!
(http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/03421/Michael-Legg_home__3421803b.jpg)
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^^ I'm SURE the neighbors love them. /s They're hoarders and have a mental illness.
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I fit the description of the title pretty well. I am very frugal for certain things and very spendy on other things. I've just been prioritizing what's important to me and what isn't. But I'm sure a lot of people here would drop jaws if they knew how much money I spend on stupid shit. right now, I'm going through a declutter cycle, so I'm very aware of how much crap I've been holding on to.
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Extreme coupon if leads to warehousing a bunch of junk that was too good of a deal to pass up. My buddy's wife does it and their basement is FULL of toothpaste, laundry detergent, paper towels, ... you name it. I'm all for saving money, but it also leads to buying things that aren't needed. I buy what I need when I need it. I keep meat, rice, and canned goods stocked when on sale. I have seen his wife buy more of the same item because it was too good of a deal to pass up. When you have 12 jugs of liquid tide did you really need three more?
My mum is a bit like that, it drives me crazy sometimes. Last time we visited, we went to a grocery store near her home that's very cheap. I found some canned beans on discount and I knew it was a very good deal, so I bought about 5 cans. She thought I was insane that I didn't buy as many cans as I could carry. Leaving them all in the shop would be such a waste of money. Every time we visit her, we go home carrying bags of food that she bought loads of, but ended up not liking.
She saw a good deal on wine. So, instead of buying 2 or 3 bottles (she's single, has wine drinking friends every now and then) she's buying 4 boxes of 6. And she's on a diet. I did reminder her of that, but 'just because I buy them, doesn't mean I drink them! There just for when I have company". Sure. Now, I don't drink wine, but when I'm trying to lose weight, I don't buy 24 bars of chocolate just to put them in the pantry ....
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"I saved four bucks on gas!"
said with a straight face while leaning against $1600 cargo bike
I never realised I needed one of these, until I googled it a minute ago and found out they exist. Made in my city for the bargain price of £1,000. Wonder what they'd add for electric assistance? Damn, if only I'd saved more money. I know, I could pay on credit! At 25% interest, it's still cheaper than an SUV, so really I've saved tens of thousands.
I do want one, though. Maybe one day...
When it comes to this type of thing, my advice is to "Start with the cheapest and easiest, then work your way up".
I started with a cheapo bike from the discount shop. I hated it. It was horrible to ride, it was "light" which was supposed to make it easy, but it meant I was overbalanced when carrying a backpack or groceries. In one year, I spent more money on replacement brake pads than the cost of the bike. I was riding 30km a day for my commute to work + school.
When the cheap bike no longer worked, when I'd established a habit of using it all the time, then I went and spent $1800 on a Batavus. The Dutch import had a steel frame, internal gear hub, and disk brakes. It doesn't give a shit about groceries or gymbags or icy rain. It wouldn't have been worth the money my first summer, because I didn't know if I'd use it regularly. It's been ten years now, it's outlasted 2 cars and a marriage. I still use it as my daily driver in the spring/summer/fall.
I hope you and your future cargo bike have many happy years together!
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"I saved four bucks on gas!"
said with a straight face while leaning against $1600 cargo bike
I never realised I needed one of these, until I googled it a minute ago and found out they exist. Made in my city for the bargain price of £1,000. Wonder what they'd add for electric assistance? Damn, if only I'd saved more money. I know, I could pay on credit! At 25% interest, it's still cheaper than an SUV, so really I've saved tens of thousands.
I do want one, though. Maybe one day...
When it comes to this type of thing, my advice is to "Start with the cheapest and easiest, then work your way up".
I started with a cheapo bike from the discount shop. I hated it. It was horrible to ride, it was "light" which was supposed to make it easy, but it meant I was overbalanced when carrying a backpack or groceries. In one year, I spent more money on replacement brake pads than the cost of the bike. I was riding 30km a day for my commute to work + school.
When the cheap bike no longer worked, when I'd established a habit of using it all the time, then I went and spent $1800 on a Batavus. The Dutch import had a steel frame, internal gear hub, and disk brakes. It doesn't give a shit about groceries or gymbags or icy rain. It wouldn't have been worth the money my first summer, because I didn't know if I'd use it regularly. It's been ten years now, it's outlasted 2 cars and a marriage. I still use it as my daily driver in the spring/summer/fall.
I hope you and your future cargo bike have many happy years together!
You only need to buy 1 Batavus in your life. My sister is still riding around on my grandfather's Batavus from 1967.
Cargo bikes are very common in here (the NL). People in the city use it instead of a car. They are expensive, but if that means you're not going to buy a car it's value for money. If we ever have kids I'll probably buy one too. You can buy special kid seats so they're strapped securely in the bike and you can buy covers so the kids and the groceries don't get wet from the rain.
Daycare centers around here have them too, so they can take trips to the park etc ( like this https://www.kdvdoortje.nl/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Bakfiets.jpg ) . Some of them actually have vehicles that are a weird mix of a cargo bike and a segway ( https://www.pido.nl/wp-content/uploads/Pido-Kinderopvang-en-duurzaamheid-..jpg ).
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It is possible to do a cargo bike on the cheap-ish...
I'm a fan of the american style long tail cargo bike. But if shelling out big bucks for something like a Surly Big Dummy is offputting, xtracycle offers conversion kits to convert near any bike to a long tail:
http://www.xtracycle.com/leap/
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The problem is the word "save" has two different, but legitimate, definitions. It can mean "putting money aside for later" and it can mean "paying less than full price" for a product.
No one would argue that putting money aside is a bad idea. And no one would argue paying less than full price is a bad idea. Both are legitimate and useful concepts. The problem comes when we confuse the two definitions. When you save money at the store, you are paying less than full price, which is a good thing. But it is not equal to putting money aside for later, but nobody said it was. I think most people can tell which meaning is intended, from the context.
I'm looking for X, and willing to spend Y on it. The store has X for 1.5Y, but it's 1/3 off. Did I save anything when I buy it? That's my problem when they say here's how much you saved!! I might have saved some of it, but I definitely didn't save the amount they are stating.
This is how I think now, the Mustachian way:
I really need X. The range of X products are priced from Y to X. When there is sale, you can usually buy an unfancy X for 1/2 Y. Therefore I am willing to pay 1/2 Y. In the shop, there is an X for 1/2 Y, an several other Xs for much more than Y. The one for 1/2 Y fits well and I buy it. I spend 1/2 Y, buy also save 1/2 Y, because for normal not reduced price is Y.
I have a different way of doing things. If I want something, I first think what it's worth to me and then set aside that amount from the budget.
If I think it's worth £50 But the price is £100, I don't buy it. If it comes on offer for £50, I buy it, but I haven't saved anything - I've paid what I consider a fair price.
If, however, I think it's worth £50 And it turns out they only cost £35 (even if that's "full price") then I've saved £15. I've paid £35 when I would have been happy to pay £50, and get to put £15 into savings.
These are excellent, thanks for sharing.
Personal motto is "Start with the cheapest and easiest". So I'll start with the unfancy found-secondhand-on-craigslist option. If I'm using it to death and need more features, then I'll pay for the upgrade.
It's worked out pretty well for me so far.
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Christmas 2003....FIL spends $3,850 on a 47-inch flat screen, which at the time was slightly below the going rate. As wave after wave of friends and relatives come over during the day, he shows them the recently-hung TV, bragging about the great deal he got.
All I could think of was that he just paid $4K for a freakin' TV.
Christmas 2017....BIL and SIL buy 16-year-old son new car, raving about what a great deal they got......
Sometimes the apple falls three inches from the tree. Thankfully, DW has a different mindset.
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Christmas 2003....FIL spends $3,850 on a 47-inch flat screen, which at the time was slightly below the going rate. As wave after wave of friends and relatives come over during the day, he shows them the recently-hung TV, bragging about the great deal he got.
All I could think of was that he just paid $4K for a freakin' TV.
Christmas 2017....BIL and SIL buy 16-year-old son new car, raving about what a great deal they got......
Sometimes the apple falls three inches from the tree. Thankfully, DW has a different mindset.
Did they buy him a brand, spanking new car, or a 'new to him' used car?
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A few years later I bought a nice 42 inch TV for $350 from Sears when our CRT TV croaked. Still using the 42 incher today...
As much as gadgets are fun and exciting it sure is expensive to be an early adopter.
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How does one become accustomed to a $150,000/yr lifestyle while still in school/residency?
Peer pressure, man. When you want to be a doctor/lawyer, you have to dress the part, right? Which means spending money on clothes, accessories, hair, having the right apartment with fancy rented leather furniture, going to restaurants, having the right hobbies. I had classmates who traveled internationally several times a year--and this with near-zero income. I convinced myself at one point that I had to pay some $200 for a purse. I already had purses, but they weren't fancy enough, and what if I had to pull it out on a job interview? I sure felt dumb that time I went to a banquet in a dress from the thrift store, and all the other women had fancy rented designer dresses.
Some of this is rational--looking the part is part of getting hired. You do need to wear a suit. Some of it, though, is superstition, spending money just to alleviate anxiety over the job market and your own inadequacies.
Um, don't a lot of doctors where scrubs much of the time? Or cheap dress shirts with a white coat over the top? Because, you know, dealing with other people's body fluids is part of the job?
I hosted someone for an interview recently at it was kind of comical how "expensive" she looked. Fancy designer purse, fancy shoes, expensive looking jewelry, perfect make up . . . all for a relatively low paying, entry-level job in a field where no one really cares how you look (engineering). We hired her anyway.
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I can't speak to lawyers, but in my hospital there is a clear line between the physicians who are literally the best in the world in their specialty and those few who aren't going to last long. The former don't "look the part" at all. Drive Toyotas, wear the same business casual clothes they've had for fifteen years.... They aren't bothered with trying to impress people. The latter category tends to burn out because they have to work so hard to keep up with the Joneses. They're the couple of dumbasses buying fancy cars and suburb McMansions in residency when their hourly wage is less than mine, because, you know, they're a doctor.
We joke about it all the time, that we can tell who will make it at our facility out of fellowship based on their brand of shoes. But it holds true.
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I can't speak to lawyers, but in my hospital there is a clear line between the physicians who are literally the best in the world in their specialty and those few who aren't going to last long. The former don't "look the part" at all. Drive Toyotas, wear the same business casual clothes they've had for fifteen years.... They aren't bothered with trying to impress people. The latter category tends to burn out because they have to work so hard to keep up with the Joneses. They're the couple of dumbasses buying fancy cars and suburb McMansions in residency when their hourly wage is less than mine, because, you know, they're a doctor.
We joke about it all the time, that we can tell who will make it at our facility out of fellowship based on their brand of shoes. But it holds true.
My gastroenterologist wears hospital logo polo shirts under her white coat. The same standard issue polo the PA's and even the secretaries wear. I think that's a sign she has her priorities straight. She's the only doctor in the department that wears the hospital polo.
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I can't speak to lawyers, but in my hospital there is a clear line between the physicians who are literally the best in the world in their specialty and those few who aren't going to last long. The former don't "look the part" at all. Drive Toyotas, wear the same business casual clothes they've had for fifteen years.... They aren't bothered with trying to impress people. The latter category tends to burn out because they have to work so hard to keep up with the Joneses. They're the couple of dumbasses buying fancy cars and suburb McMansions in residency when their hourly wage is less than mine, because, you know, they're a doctor.
We joke about it all the time, that we can tell who will make it at our facility out of fellowship based on their brand of shoes. But it holds true.
My gastroenterologist wears hospital logo polo shirts under her white coat. The same standard issue polo the PA's and even the secretaries wear. I think that's a sign she has her priorities straight. She's the only doctor in the department that wears the hospital polo.
Back when I worked in an exclusive private hospital we had a lady come in once needing emergency abdominal surgery. I can't remember what for now, but the best GI surgeon in the country was on call that day. He came in wearing what he was, because he was going to have to scrub up anyway.
Old sweat pants, a t-shirt with holes in it and deck shoes. He'd been cleaning his boat.
She refused to have him see her. We tried to convince her otherwise, but she ended up with surgeon-who-isn't-great-but-thinks-he-is-but-at-least-is-wearing-an-Armani-suit.
Didn't end well. She didn't die, but she didn't get better in a hurry either. If only she'd overlooked Brilliant Surgeon's clean but shabby clothes.
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A helicopter could be practical in certain doomsday scenarios like a zombie apocalypse . . . just sayin.
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A helicopter could be practical in certain doomsday scenarios like a zombie apocalypse . . . just sayin.
Just make sure you get the unlimited fuel variety... Or solar panels!
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A bargain is not a bargain unless you need it!
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A helicopter could be practical in certain doomsday scenarios like a zombie apocalypse . . . just sayin.
Just make sure you get the unlimited fuel variety... Or solar panels!
Our old Sea Kings are starting to be decommissioned.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/sea-king-sale-1.4377408
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I got yelled at by my 22 year old coworker for debating whether I should buy a Nintendo Switch for my son for Christmas. She was appalled that I would spend that much ($300) on Christmas presents for a kid. That would be understandable if she hadn’t bought a brand new Audi after getting a job offer, buys lunch every day and Starbucks, takes trips to Florida every day, has a trip to Dubai scheduled and has Mid 5 figures of student loans to pay off.
PS: I decided not to buy the Switch. But even if I had, it would not have been a big deal. I just found it funny that Ms. McSpendy pants was trying to lecture me on being frugal.
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. . .takes trips to Florida every day . . .
I do that too. Granted, I also live in Florida so it is pretty cheap.
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. . .takes trips to Florida every day . . .
I do that too. Granted, I also live in Florida so it is pretty cheap.
Especially if you walk there.
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The problem is the word "save" has two different, but legitimate, definitions. It can mean "putting money aside for later" and it can mean "paying less than full price" for a product.
No one would argue that putting money aside is a bad idea. And no one would argue paying less than full price is a bad idea. Both are legitimate and useful concepts. The problem comes when we confuse the two definitions. When you save money at the store, you are paying less than full price, which is a good thing. But it is not equal to putting money aside for later, but nobody said it was. I think most people can tell which meaning is intended, from the context.
I'm looking for X, and willing to spend Y on it. The store has X for 1.5Y, but it's 1/3 off. Did I save anything when I buy it? That's my problem when they say here's how much you saved!! I might have saved some of it, but I definitely didn't save the amount they are stating.
This is how I think now, the Mustachian way:
I really need X. The range of X products are priced from Y to X. When there is sale, you can usually buy an unfancy X for 1/2 Y. Therefore I am willing to pay 1/2 Y. In the shop, there is an X for 1/2 Y, an several other Xs for much more than Y. The one for 1/2 Y fits well and I buy it. I spend 1/2 Y, buy also save 1/2 Y, because for normal not reduced price is Y.
I have a different way of doing things. If I want something, I first think what it's worth to me and then set aside that amount from the budget.
If I think it's worth £50 But the price is £100, I don't buy it. If it comes on offer for £50, I buy it, but I haven't saved anything - I've paid what I consider a fair price.
If, however, I think it's worth £50 And it turns out they only cost £35 (even if that's "full price") then I've saved £15. I've paid £35 when I would have been happy to pay £50, and get to put £15 into savings.
There is a term for everything you describe. It is consumer surplus. Every single individual that purchases items operates this way. The only difference between you and most people is that you probably have a lower valuation for goods and services than they do.
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Talking robot ladies named Alexa are just one step on the way to that dystopian super-rad future where everyone has is androids.
I can't wait! :D
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A bargain is not a bargain unless you need it!
Indeed! And many frugal people fall in the trap of forgetting that.
A thing in the same category is keeping everything you ever owned somewhere on your property in case you one time in the future need to use it again (hoarding). Eventually you would need a large house to store all this stuff. And maybe max 5% might ever come in handy again, and that is a very optimistic guess.
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The problem is the word "save" has two different, but legitimate, definitions. It can mean "putting money aside for later" and it can mean "paying less than full price" for a product.
No one would argue that putting money aside is a bad idea. And no one would argue paying less than full price is a bad idea. Both are legitimate and useful concepts. The problem comes when we confuse the two definitions. When you save money at the store, you are paying less than full price, which is a good thing. But it is not equal to putting money aside for later, but nobody said it was. I think most people can tell which meaning is intended, from the context.
I'm looking for X, and willing to spend Y on it. The store has X for 1.5Y, but it's 1/3 off. Did I save anything when I buy it? That's my problem when they say here's how much you saved!! I might have saved some of it, but I definitely didn't save the amount they are stating.
This is how I think now, the Mustachian way:
I really need X. The range of X products are priced from Y to X. When there is sale, you can usually buy an unfancy X for 1/2 Y. Therefore I am willing to pay 1/2 Y. In the shop, there is an X for 1/2 Y, an several other Xs for much more than Y. The one for 1/2 Y fits well and I buy it. I spend 1/2 Y, buy also save 1/2 Y, because for normal not reduced price is Y.
I have a different way of doing things. If I want something, I first think what it's worth to me and then set aside that amount from the budget.
If I think it's worth £50 But the price is £100, I don't buy it. If it comes on offer for £50, I buy it, but I haven't saved anything - I've paid what I consider a fair price.
If, however, I think it's worth £50 And it turns out they only cost £35 (even if that's "full price") then I've saved £15. I've paid £35 when I would have been happy to pay £50, and get to put £15 into savings.
There is a term for everything you describe. It is consumer surplus. Every single individual that purchases items operates this way. The only difference between you and most people is that you probably have a lower valuation for goods and services than they do.
I disagree, I don't think most people operate this way. It seems to me that people are more likely to put a value on something based on what they've been told it's worth rather than how much they value it. That's what branding is all about. Not to mention "sales" where the price of a product is increased so that it can be marked 30% off which is really the original price.
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A helicopter could be practical in certain doomsday scenarios like a zombie apocalypse . . . just sayin.
Just make sure you get the unlimited fuel variety... Or solar panels!
Our old Sea Kings are starting to be decommissioned.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/sea-king-sale-1.4377408
As a former flight WO told me, buy two so you can use one for parts.
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The problem is the word "save" has two different, but legitimate, definitions. It can mean "putting money aside for later" and it can mean "paying less than full price" for a product.
No one would argue that putting money aside is a bad idea. And no one would argue paying less than full price is a bad idea. Both are legitimate and useful concepts. The problem comes when we confuse the two definitions. When you save money at the store, you are paying less than full price, which is a good thing. But it is not equal to putting money aside for later, but nobody said it was. I think most people can tell which meaning is intended, from the context.
I'm looking for X, and willing to spend Y on it. The store has X for 1.5Y, but it's 1/3 off. Did I save anything when I buy it? That's my problem when they say here's how much you saved!! I might have saved some of it, but I definitely didn't save the amount they are stating.
This is how I think now, the Mustachian way:
I really need X. The range of X products are priced from Y to X. When there is sale, you can usually buy an unfancy X for 1/2 Y. Therefore I am willing to pay 1/2 Y. In the shop, there is an X for 1/2 Y, an several other Xs for much more than Y. The one for 1/2 Y fits well and I buy it. I spend 1/2 Y, buy also save 1/2 Y, because for normal not reduced price is Y.
I have a different way of doing things. If I want something, I first think what it's worth to me and then set aside that amount from the budget.
If I think it's worth £50 But the price is £100, I don't buy it. If it comes on offer for £50, I buy it, but I haven't saved anything - I've paid what I consider a fair price.
If, however, I think it's worth £50 And it turns out they only cost £35 (even if that's "full price") then I've saved £15. I've paid £35 when I would have been happy to pay £50, and get to put £15 into savings.
There is a term for everything you describe. It is consumer surplus. Every single individual that purchases items operates this way. The only difference between you and most people is that you probably have a lower valuation for goods and services than they do.
I disagree, I don't think most people operate this way. It seems to me that people are more likely to put a value on something based on what they've been told it's worth rather than how much they value it. That's what branding is all about. Not to mention "sales" where the price of a product is increased so that it can be marked 30% off which is really the original price.
You can disagree all you want.
Nobody buys anything if the value to them is less than the price. They only purchase goods and services that are worth as much or more than the price. If the value is more than the price, the difference between that value and the price is called consumer surplus. Every single person that buys goods and services operates this way.
Like I said, you may disagree with another person's valuation, you may feel the value it is based on misleading or false information or the value is based on branding. However, when a person spends his money on a good or service, he has revealed that the value of that good or service is worth at least as much as the purchase price to them.
They can regret the purchase later on or change their valuation later on, but regardless, at the time of purchase, the good or service was worth as much or more than the price.
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The problem is the word "save" has two different, but legitimate, definitions. It can mean "putting money aside for later" and it can mean "paying less than full price" for a product.
No one would argue that putting money aside is a bad idea. And no one would argue paying less than full price is a bad idea. Both are legitimate and useful concepts. The problem comes when we confuse the two definitions. When you save money at the store, you are paying less than full price, which is a good thing. But it is not equal to putting money aside for later, but nobody said it was. I think most people can tell which meaning is intended, from the context.
I'm looking for X, and willing to spend Y on it. The store has X for 1.5Y, but it's 1/3 off. Did I save anything when I buy it? That's my problem when they say here's how much you saved!! I might have saved some of it, but I definitely didn't save the amount they are stating.
This is how I think now, the Mustachian way:
I really need X. The range of X products are priced from Y to X. When there is sale, you can usually buy an unfancy X for 1/2 Y. Therefore I am willing to pay 1/2 Y. In the shop, there is an X for 1/2 Y, an several other Xs for much more than Y. The one for 1/2 Y fits well and I buy it. I spend 1/2 Y, buy also save 1/2 Y, because for normal not reduced price is Y.
I have a different way of doing things. If I want something, I first think what it's worth to me and then set aside that amount from the budget.
If I think it's worth £50 But the price is £100, I don't buy it. If it comes on offer for £50, I buy it, but I haven't saved anything - I've paid what I consider a fair price.
If, however, I think it's worth £50 And it turns out they only cost £35 (even if that's "full price") then I've saved £15. I've paid £35 when I would have been happy to pay £50, and get to put £15 into savings.
There is a term for everything you describe. It is consumer surplus. Every single individual that purchases items operates this way. The only difference between you and most people is that you probably have a lower valuation for goods and services than they do.
I disagree, I don't think most people operate this way. It seems to me that people are more likely to put a value on something based on what they've been told it's worth rather than how much they value it. That's what branding is all about. Not to mention "sales" where the price of a product is increased so that it can be marked 30% off which is really the original price.
You can disagree all you want.
Nobody buys anything if the value to them is less than the price. They only purchase goods and services that are worth as much or more than the price. If the value is more than the price, the difference between that value and the price is called consumer surplus. Every single person that buys goods and services operates this way.
Like I said, you may disagree with another person's valuation, you may feel the value it is based on misleading or false information or the value is based on branding. However, when a person spends his money on a good or service, he has revealed that the value of that good or service is worth at least as much as the purchase price to them.
They can regret the purchase later on or change their valuation later on, but regardless, at the time of purchase, the good or service was worth as much or more than the price.
I think you are both right. Yes, we buy something when we think it is good value for the money we pay for it.
But, I remember reading a research (can't find it back though), where people would buy overpriced jewelry rather than low-cost & for sale jewelry. The jewelry was the same, the shop was the same. They just changed the price tags & to their astonishment, people bought the much more expensive jewelry. Even though it wasn't worth that at all. The more expensive price made people believe that this was a good quality & a good bang-for-buck. So they bought it much more quickly than the cheaper jewelry. This strokes much better with Dabnasty's point of view.
I believe it was Dan Ariely who wrote about this, but I'm not sure. He has however done a lot of research on this topic. Interesting to read for sure :)
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I think you are both right. Yes, we buy something when we think it is good value for the money we pay for it.
But, I remember reading a research (can't find it back though), where people would buy overpriced jewelry rather than low-cost & for sale jewelry. The jewelry was the same, the shop was the same. They just changed the price tags & to their astonishment, people bought the much more expensive jewelry. Even though it wasn't worth that at all. The more expensive price made people believe that this was a good quality & a good bang-for-buck. So they bought it much more quickly than the cheaper jewelry. This strokes much better with Dabnasty's point of view.
I believe it was Dan Ariely who wrote about this, but I'm not sure. He has however done a lot of research on this topic. Interesting to read for sure :)
My DH's uncle new this. He used to own a cosmetics shop. Once he got hold of a load of cheap lipstick that he tried to sell cheap. None of them were bought. Then he changed the sign to "from <very expensive> to half price" and in no time all the cheap lipsticks were sold. Sometimes people liked to be fooled, I think. Everybody wants to buy good quality stuff for half price.
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I have a different way of doing things. If I want something, I first think what it's worth to me and then set aside that amount from the budget.
If I think it's worth £50 But the price is £100, I don't buy it. If it comes on offer for £50, I buy it, but I haven't saved anything - I've paid what I consider a fair price.
If, however, I think it's worth £50 And it turns out they only cost £35 (even if that's "full price") then I've saved £15. I've paid £35 when I would have been happy to pay £50, and get to put £15 into savings.
There is a term for everything you describe. It is consumer surplus. Every single individual that purchases items operates this way. The only difference between you and most people is that you probably have a lower valuation for goods and services than they do.
I disagree, I don't think most people operate this way. It seems to me that people are more likely to put a value on something based on what they've been told it's worth rather than how much they value it. That's what branding is all about. Not to mention "sales" where the price of a product is increased so that it can be marked 30% off which is really the original price.
You can disagree all you want.
Nobody buys anything if the value to them is less than the price. They only purchase goods and services that are worth as much or more than the price. If the value is more than the price, the difference between that value and the price is called consumer surplus. Every single person that buys goods and services operates this way.
Like I said, you may disagree with another person's valuation, you may feel the value it is based on misleading or false information or the value is based on branding. However, when a person spends his money on a good or service, he has revealed that the value of that good or service is worth at least as much as the purchase price to them.
They can regret the purchase later on or change their valuation later on, but regardless, at the time of purchase, the good or service was worth as much or more than the price.
I think you are both right. Yes, we buy something when we think it is good value for the money we pay for it.
But, I remember reading a research (can't find it back though), where people would buy overpriced jewelry rather than low-cost & for sale jewelry. The jewelry was the same, the shop was the same. They just changed the price tags & to their astonishment, people bought the much more expensive jewelry. Even though it wasn't worth that at all. The more expensive price made people believe that this was a good quality & a good bang-for-buck. So they bought it much more quickly than the cheaper jewelry. This strokes much better with Dabnasty's point of view.
I believe it was Dan Ariely who wrote about this, but I'm not sure. He has however done a lot of research on this topic. Interesting to read for sure :)
Ya, I guess consumer surplus does technically describe this scenario but I was thinking that this goes without saying unless there is some external force making people buy things?
My disagreement was referring to the idea that consumers operate the same way as elementz_m. I took their description to mean they were determining a value of an item based on the impact it will have on their life, whereas many people determine a value based on external inputs about what a thing is inherently worth. So while it is true, no one pays a higher price than the monetary value they have determined, people are inherently bad at translating real world value to monetary value. I think there are multiple definitions of "value".
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I think you are both right. Yes, we buy something when we think it is good value for the money we pay for it.
But, I remember reading a research (can't find it back though), where people would buy overpriced jewelry rather than low-cost & for sale jewelry. The jewelry was the same, the shop was the same. They just changed the price tags & to their astonishment, people bought the much more expensive jewelry. Even though it wasn't worth that at all. The more expensive price made people believe that this was a good quality & a good bang-for-buck. So they bought it much more quickly than the cheaper jewelry. This strokes much better with Dabnasty's point of view.
I believe it was Dan Ariely who wrote about this, but I'm not sure. He has however done a lot of research on this topic. Interesting to read for sure :)
My DH's uncle new this. He used to own a cosmetics shop. Once he got hold of a load of cheap lipstick that he tried to sell cheap. None of them were bought. Then he changed the sign to "from <very expensive> to half price" and in no time all the cheap lipsticks were sold. Sometimes people liked to be fooled, I think. Everybody wants to buy good quality stuff for half price.
Clothes shopping in general is like this (at least here in the US). It's all a fucking game of discounts/sales/coupons/deals/exceptions/bullshit. And people like it that way. JCPenny tried to do reasonable everyday pricing with no bullshit circa 2012 and their sales fell as a result because people would rather feel like they're getting a deal.
I was dragged along clothes shopping with my girlfriend a couple weeks ago. She bought a pair of "$100" jeans and "$70" jeans. It was buy-one-get-one-50%-off, plus some mysterious other $25 discount for spending a certain amount, and then some other discount at the register for a total of $76 including tax. And this wasn't some special fancy combo dance, it was business as usual according to the cashier. My head just about exploded. How the hell does anyone shop without knowing the real price of anything?
Of course, I buy my own clothes exclusively at thrift stores except for shoes/socks/underwear, so I guess I'm just out of touch with "reality."
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I have a different way of doing things. If I want something, I first think what it's worth to me and then set aside that amount from the budget.
If I think it's worth £50 But the price is £100, I don't buy it. If it comes on offer for £50, I buy it, but I haven't saved anything - I've paid what I consider a fair price.
If, however, I think it's worth £50 And it turns out they only cost £35 (even if that's "full price") then I've saved £15. I've paid £35 when I would have been happy to pay £50, and get to put £15 into savings.
There is a term for everything you describe. It is consumer surplus. Every single individual that purchases items operates this way. The only difference between you and most people is that you probably have a lower valuation for goods and services than they do.
I disagree, I don't think most people operate this way. It seems to me that people are more likely to put a value on something based on what they've been told it's worth rather than how much they value it. That's what branding is all about. Not to mention "sales" where the price of a product is increased so that it can be marked 30% off which is really the original price.
You can disagree all you want.
Nobody buys anything if the value to them is less than the price. They only purchase goods and services that are worth as much or more than the price. If the value is more than the price, the difference between that value and the price is called consumer surplus. Every single person that buys goods and services operates this way.
Like I said, you may disagree with another person's valuation, you may feel the value it is based on misleading or false information or the value is based on branding. However, when a person spends his money on a good or service, he has revealed that the value of that good or service is worth at least as much as the purchase price to them.
They can regret the purchase later on or change their valuation later on, but regardless, at the time of purchase, the good or service was worth as much or more than the price.
I think you are both right. Yes, we buy something when we think it is good value for the money we pay for it.
But, I remember reading a research (can't find it back though), where people would buy overpriced jewelry rather than low-cost & for sale jewelry. The jewelry was the same, the shop was the same. They just changed the price tags & to their astonishment, people bought the much more expensive jewelry. Even though it wasn't worth that at all. The more expensive price made people believe that this was a good quality & a good bang-for-buck. So they bought it much more quickly than the cheaper jewelry. This strokes much better with Dabnasty's point of view.
I believe it was Dan Ariely who wrote about this, but I'm not sure. He has however done a lot of research on this topic. Interesting to read for sure :)
Ya, I guess consumer surplus does technically describe this scenario but I was thinking that this goes without saying unless there is some external force making people buy things?
My disagreement was referring to the idea that consumers operate the same way as elementz_m. I took their description to mean they were determining a value of an item based on the impact it will have on their life, whereas many people determine a value based on external inputs about what a thing is inherently worth. So while it is true, no one pays a higher price than the monetary value they have determined, people are inherently bad at translating real world value to monetary value. I think there are multiple definitions of "value".
Yes, this is what I was trying to get at. It is an example of consumer surplus, but so is every transaction in the history of the Universe.
What I was trying to say is that companies spend an awful lot of time and effort trying to part me from my cash. I know that I'm not as smart as the combined might of every psychologist, economist and marketing exec in history. So, to try and dampen their effect somewhat, I sit in a dark room and try to decide the utility of an item to myself before I look at real-world prices.
This removes the effect of flash packaging and artificial discounts, which are two very common ways they try to make you spend more. I'm definitely still sucked in by their other tricks, but I don't feel as duped or helpless as I otherwise might.
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When I'm riding my cargo bike with my kids, people stop me to ask questions about it. Among others, the most common question is "how much was it?" "$2400." "That's so expensive! I could never afford that!" I don't say anything, but I see the car they own and think how much more their car costs and gas costs and maintenance costs and depreciation and insurance and wonder how they can say my bike is too expensive with a straight face. You're driving last years model Escalade, you can afford a bike.
I have a Craighton Oma step through Achielle with one kids seat and can take some groceries on it. So yeah, my bikes are expensive, but they're my workhorse/main form of transportation. I'm not big into cycling or bikes, but I have a budget and do what makes sense for my budget. I just potter along at my own speed, kids in tow a lot of the time. My bikes don't have to be fast, but I like them pretty and strong.
I've never had a shopping habit. Usually my version of shopping is doing a lot of research online to find what I want. Then I use websites like keep.com and set up an alert for when it gets to the price I'm willing to pay. When the price I want is available, I get an email to alert me and I buy it.
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Clothes shopping in general is like this (at least here in the US). It's all a fucking game of discounts/sales/coupons/deals/exceptions/bullshit. And people like it that way. JCPenny tried to do reasonable everyday pricing with no bullshit circa 2012 and their sales fell as a result because people would rather feel like they're getting a deal.
I was dragged along clothes shopping with my girlfriend a couple weeks ago. She bought a pair of "$100" jeans and "$70" jeans. It was buy-one-get-one-50%-off, plus some mysterious other $25 discount for spending a certain amount, and then some other discount at the register for a total of $76 including tax. And this wasn't some special fancy combo dance, it was business as usual according to the cashier. My head just about exploded. How the hell does anyone shop without knowing the real price of anything?
Of course, I buy my own clothes exclusively at thrift stores except for shoes/socks/underwear, so I guess I'm just out of touch with "reality."
Anyone ever been to Peebles? Holy shit. Everything is on sale but most of it is still overpriced so then you need coupons which only work in certain combinations of things with prices that don't end in 8. I had a gift card to spend but didn't really need anything but socks and they were buy one get one half off...until you look a little closer. Despite signs for the sale on every rack there was a list of excluded brands in fine print which included every brand except for the generic.
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My DH's uncle new this. He used to own a cosmetics shop. Once he got hold of a load of cheap lipstick that he tried to sell cheap. None of them were bought. Then he changed the sign to "from <very expensive> to half price" and in no time all the cheap lipsticks were sold. Sometimes people liked to be fooled, I think. Everybody wants to buy good quality stuff for half price.
This reminds me of a story I read somewhere (perhaps even on this forum), which made me laugh. A guy relaid his patio and had lots of old slabs that he wanted rid of. It would have cost money for someone to collect them and dispose of them so he stacked them neatly in his front garden and put up a sign saying "Free slabs - please take". A couple of weeks went by and nobody took any. So he put up another sign saying "Slabs - £1 each" and before he knew it someone had come along and stolen the lot.
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My DH's uncle new this. He used to own a cosmetics shop. Once he got hold of a load of cheap lipstick that he tried to sell cheap. None of them were bought. Then he changed the sign to "from <very expensive> to half price" and in no time all the cheap lipsticks were sold. Sometimes people liked to be fooled, I think. Everybody wants to buy good quality stuff for half price.
This reminds me of a story I read somewhere (perhaps even on this forum), which made me laugh. A guy relaid his patio and had lots of old slabs that he wanted rid of. It would have cost money for someone to collect them and dispose of them so he stacked them neatly in his front garden and put up a sign saying "Free slabs - please take". A couple of weeks went by and nobody took any. So he put up another sign saying "Slabs - £1 each" and before he knew it someone had come along and stolen the lot.
Maybe it's where you are. I have placed a old garage cabinets (which used to be the original cabinets) and a rusted water heater at the curb, placed an ad on Craigslist Free Stuff with photo and street name only. The stuff's gone in under 2 hours. Got rid of old car tires too, advertised as drift-ready for Honda Civic. The guy couldn't believe it was free, so I offered to charge him 10 bucks each and free loading in his truck. In the end I was paid a handsome $20. Beer Money.
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My DH's uncle new this. He used to own a cosmetics shop. Once he got hold of a load of cheap lipstick that he tried to sell cheap. None of them were bought. Then he changed the sign to "from <very expensive> to half price" and in no time all the cheap lipsticks were sold. Sometimes people liked to be fooled, I think. Everybody wants to buy good quality stuff for half price.
This reminds me of a story I read somewhere (perhaps even on this forum), which made me laugh. A guy relaid his patio and had lots of old slabs that he wanted rid of. It would have cost money for someone to collect them and dispose of them so he stacked them neatly in his front garden and put up a sign saying "Free slabs - please take". A couple of weeks went by and nobody took any. So he put up another sign saying "Slabs - £1 each" and before he knew it someone had come along and stolen the lot.
I also had a large pile of old slabs, very heavy and a lot of hassle to remove. My boss at work had told me it was easy to get rid of when giving away for free. I advertised for free and the next morning it was collected. I didn't even need to be home.
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My DH's uncle new this. He used to own a cosmetics shop. Once he got hold of a load of cheap lipstick that he tried to sell cheap. None of them were bought. Then he changed the sign to "from <very expensive> to half price" and in no time all the cheap lipsticks were sold. Sometimes people liked to be fooled, I think. Everybody wants to buy good quality stuff for half price.
This reminds me of a story I read somewhere (perhaps even on this forum), which made me laugh. A guy relaid his patio and had lots of old slabs that he wanted rid of. It would have cost money for someone to collect them and dispose of them so he stacked them neatly in his front garden and put up a sign saying "Free slabs - please take". A couple of weeks went by and nobody took any. So he put up another sign saying "Slabs - £1 each" and before he knew it someone had come along and stolen the lot.
This reminds me of I guy I used to date. He bought old buildings in Europe, shipped the timber to the US and upcycled it into custom furniture and kitchens. He once turned a pulpit from an old church into a cool bar. It didn't sell for the longest time. Finally, he raised the price, titled it "Saints to Sinners", and promptly sold it for the new, higher price.
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My DH's uncle new this. He used to own a cosmetics shop. Once he got hold of a load of cheap lipstick that he tried to sell cheap. None of them were bought. Then he changed the sign to "from <very expensive> to half price" and in no time all the cheap lipsticks were sold. Sometimes people liked to be fooled, I think. Everybody wants to buy good quality stuff for half price.
Sell the sizzle not the steak... sales 101... and
ABC--ALWAYS BE CLOSING
This reminds me of a story I read somewhere (perhaps even on this forum), which made me laugh. A guy relaid his patio and had lots of old slabs that he wanted rid of. It would have cost money for someone to collect them and dispose of them so he stacked them neatly in his front garden and put up a sign saying "Free slabs - please take". A couple of weeks went by and nobody took any. So he put up another sign saying "Slabs - £1 each" and before he knew it someone had come along and stolen the lot.
This reminds me of I guy I used to date. He bought old buildings in Europe, shipped the timber to the US and upcycled it into custom furniture and kitchens. He once turned a pulpit from an old church into a cool bar. It didn't sell for the longest time. Finally, he raised the price, titled it "Saints to Sinners", and promptly sold it for the new, higher price.
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My DH's uncle new this. He used to own a cosmetics shop. Once he got hold of a load of cheap lipstick that he tried to sell cheap. None of them were bought. Then he changed the sign to "from <very expensive> to half price" and in no time all the cheap lipsticks were sold. Sometimes people liked to be fooled, I think. Everybody wants to buy good quality stuff for half price.
This reminds me of a story I read somewhere (perhaps even on this forum), which made me laugh. A guy relaid his patio and had lots of old slabs that he wanted rid of. It would have cost money for someone to collect them and dispose of them so he stacked them neatly in his front garden and put up a sign saying "Free slabs - please take". A couple of weeks went by and nobody took any. So he put up another sign saying "Slabs - £1 each" and before he knew it someone had come along and stolen the lot.
I also had a large pile of old slabs, very heavy and a lot of hassle to remove. My boss at work had told me it was easy to get rid of when giving away for free. I advertised for free and the next morning it was collected. I didn't even need to be home.
When we do this, I always tell my wife that this is a great example of the "invisible hand" coming and removing things from our life.
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As long as the invisible hand doesn't get too carried away and run off with things you intended to keep... ;)
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L......
But on the flip side, I guess the guy that's proud of putting together a book-shelf that came in a box is still better than the person who would pay someone else to do it. So this might all be a point of view thing. I mean, he actually did touch a screw-driver (with his own hands), so that must count for something.
.....
oh, I had a good chuckle over that. Snark is strong with you
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If you're describing $1,000,000 in student loans and a wife in residency...
Wife could have a (doctor) job making $600,000 within 24 months. Perhaps they are accustomed to a lifestyle of $150,000, and they can clear that debt in four years.
How does one become accustomed to a $150,000/yr lifestyle while still in school/residency?
The banks loves, loves, loves, to lend med students money.
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"I'm frugal, really" - no, no you're not.
I think this applied to my earlier pre-Mustachian self (as DH as well). I did not do mindless spending in large quantities, but we have spent quite a lot of money on fancy stuff where we could have prioritized differently.
Yeah, also it could be a matter of semantics. What people on this board(very small minority of the population) consider 'frugal' isn't the same as the general public. So people who consider themselves frugal may well know what they're doing even if they don't maximize every dollar, although some of these stories are fantastic.
I probably fall into this category. I've called myself frugal, a lot of times in defense as my wife is calling me cheap for not wanting to spend on something. But we do spend money unnecessarily on plenty of things and people here would tear me to shreds if they knew the details. We also save a lot(put 20% down on our house purchase, max 401ks, backdoor Roth, 529 plan, etc). So maybe I should stop saying I'm frugal and say 'budget conscious' going forward.
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Our high schooler is taking a personal finance course. Tells us that their teacher is a coupon machine (!) who spends alot of their time searching for deals/clipping/organizing coupons.
Teacher told the class that they "ONLY" spend twice what we do on groceries and we don't even try hard. Made 'teach look spendy.
Judging by some folks' posts here there is still alot of efficiency we could pursue in our budget.
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Giving things away on Craigslist is great. We have enough people in our house that a toaster oven doesn’t make sense because we just use the main oven, and our toaster wasn’t going very fast, so we gave it to somebody who felt like she needed to convince us she really needed it. Lady, I’m glad if we’re helping, but if you want to go through the effort of polishing it up and keeping it on CL for a month to get $10 I’m ok with that too. We just want the counter space back.
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"I'm frugal, really" - no, no you're not.
I think this applied to my earlier pre-Mustachian self (as DH as well). I did not do mindless spending in large quantities, but we have spent quite a lot of money on fancy stuff where we could have prioritized differently.
Yeah, also it could be a matter of semantics. What people on this board(very small minority of the population) consider 'frugal' isn't the same as the general public. So people who consider themselves frugal may well know what they're doing even if they don't maximize every dollar, although some of these stories are fantastic.
I probably fall into this category. I've called myself frugal, a lot of times in defense as my wife is calling me cheap for not wanting to spend on something. But we do spend money unnecessarily on plenty of things and people here would tear me to shreds if they knew the details. We also save a lot(put 20% down on our house purchase, max 401ks, backdoor Roth, 529 plan, etc). So maybe I should stop saying I'm frugal and say 'budget conscious' going forward.
I find when people need to toss out they max out savings accounts, its a sign they may not be frugal. Tossing out a SR to justify spending is another flag. You definitely sound budget concious, possibly frugal in some areas I'll concede.
Frugality is independant of what you earn, frugality is based on expenditures only. You may very well be doing amazing at saving, but that doesn't mean you are frugal by extension. A billionaire saving 90% isn't frugal, a pauper saving 1% can be frugal
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I kept my mouth shut after mentioning that it was possible to make your own yogurt.
I looked into doing that, but for me the cost of materials and time didn't really seem to beat the convenience of buying the individual cups at Aldi... so we still buy the cups. Did I miss something?
I've also found the same to be true for pizza. By the time I factored in buying everything and taking the time to make it, I should have just bought a frozen pizza ready to go. Now I know making it myself I could have it really customized, but we're happy with the quality the frozen pizza gives too.
I checked the yogurt prices. It only really matters if you eat a lot. If you only eat $10 of yogurt a month, does it really matter?
We eat a lot of yogurt. Making my own versus buying:
a) If we can eat 2 gallons of yogurt in under 20 days, reliably, the bulk 2 gallon tub is about the same cost as making it myself. BUT, this tub gets moldy faster than the smaller quart size tubs that can last 10 weeks in my fridge. (different brand / handling). I have thrown out too much yogurt attempting the bulk purchase, so I have stopped.
b) The 3/4 quart tubs (Activia is actually now only 3/5 of a quart) -- cost 3x to 6x more than making myself, depending on the sales available.
c) Single serve can also cost 3x to 8x more... depending on sales. Greek style is closer to 4x to 6x more than homemade version.
Assuming we can eat 2 gallons of yogurt in a month, then option b) would save me $25 to $45 per month.*
*note, I add a trace of maple syrup or homemade jam or plain, so sweetener is not costed here.
I milk cows for a friend of mine once a week and bring home 2-6 gallons of raw Jersey milk as payment. We make most of our own dairy products.
But you don't need a lot of expensive equipment for yoghurt. A pot on the stove, cooking thermometer and a thermos of some sort. The culture you can get from store bought stuff, or order it online.
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I was talking to a friend from work who just bought a house was complaining that he really needed to get a new truck. Luckily his wife has applied for a job where she would be making $3-4 an hour more than her current rate he mentioned and how nice it would be to not ‘pinch pennies’. I told him to check out a budgeting program that I use and he started going on about how frugal they are and they don’t need a budget, etc. I laughed and said “Friend, you just bought a half a million dollar house and are talking about buying a truck next week. You aren’t exactly a paragon of frugality.”
He laughed, commented something about my using big words, and swiftly walked away.
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Was visiting another city. Stopped at an interesting outdoor/sports store. Big sale. Parking lot was crowded. Long line of people inside waiting to pay.
DW and I walked around and decided the sales prices after a steep discount was similar to the regular prices of the mom 'n pop store in our town. No sale required. Our local store has to be competitive to stay in business.
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I was talking to a friend from work who just bought a house was complaining that he really needed to get a new truck. Luckily his wife has applied for a job where she would be making $3-4 an hour more than her current rate he mentioned and how nice it would be to not ‘pinch pennies’. I told him to check out a budgeting program that I use and he started going on about how frugal they are and they don’t need a budget, etc. I laughed and said “Friend, you just bought a half a million dollar house and are talking about buying a truck next week. You aren’t exactly a paragon of frugality.”
He laughed, commented something about my using big words, and swiftly walked away.
Update - First thing this morning he found me and informed me that he did indeed go out and buy a truck directly after work yesterday. He was very pleased with himself for only spending 21k (plus taxes and licensing) instead of more. He traded the jeep that he just bought less than six months ago after he traded his previous truck in.
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^^Oh, shit.^^
Just for fun, since he's done all these rollovers, could you please ask him how much he actually owes on this vehicle, not what he "paid" for it? Take your time, I want to go make some popcorn first.
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What are the predicted summer gasoline prices for 2018? Will this lead to much teeth gnashing around our work places?
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"I'm frugal, really" - no, no you're not.
I think this applied to my earlier pre-Mustachian self (as DH as well). I did not do mindless spending in large quantities, but we have spent quite a lot of money on fancy stuff where we could have prioritized differently.
Yeah, also it could be a matter of semantics. What people on this board(very small minority of the population) consider 'frugal' isn't the same as the general public. So people who consider themselves frugal may well know what they're doing even if they don't maximize every dollar, although some of these stories are fantastic.
I probably fall into this category. I've called myself frugal, a lot of times in defense as my wife is calling me cheap for not wanting to spend on something. But we do spend money unnecessarily on plenty of things and people here would tear me to shreds if they knew the details. We also save a lot(put 20% down on our house purchase, max 401ks, backdoor Roth, 529 plan, etc). So maybe I should stop saying I'm frugal and say 'budget conscious' going forward.
I find when people need to toss out they max out savings accounts, its a sign they may not be frugal. Tossing out a SR to justify spending is another flag. You definitely sound budget concious, possibly frugal in some areas I'll concede.
Frugality is independant of what you earn, frugality is based on expenditures only. You may very well be doing amazing at saving, but that doesn't mean you are frugal by extension. A billionaire saving 90% isn't frugal, a pauper saving 1% can be frugal
I don't think frugality is an all or nothing thing. Someone can be frugal in certain areas of their life in order to be able to splurge in other areas that truly bring them happiness. So you see someone who claimed to be frugal spending alot on something and snicker. Well, maybe the reason they can splurge is they were frugal earlier when you weren't around.
I agree SR is independent of frugality/spending habits but if someone is saving at a really high rate it displays they are in control of their spending. It is possible they aren't frugal at all if they have an extremely high income but more than likely they are, even if it isn't in every area of their life.
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^^Oh, shit.^^
Just for fun, since he's done all these rollovers, could you please ask him how much he actually owes on this vehicle, not what he "paid" for it? Take your time, I want to go make some popcorn first.
He's downsized every time and started with a fully paid off 70k truck (funded by daddy and 401k). He needed the money to put down on the half a million dollar house that he just bought because he could only take out so much from his 401k. So he traded his truck in and got a loan on the jeep. I'm not sure how much they gave him for the truck but I'm sure it was nowhere near the purchase price.
After that he realized that he really still wanted a truck because he has five acres now. Its his daily driver for his 40 mile one way commute.
sigh.
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I have to out myself, that I had an unmustachian weekend. Saturday I went to Costco, and after my $60 cash back credit statement, spent $180 on stuff that was just supposed to be for 2 meals (Sunday brunch and Easter dinner). I walked out with way too much stuff and also impulse items. At dinner we opened a bottle of red wine (to go with the lamb chops) and then a bottle of sparkling wine to go with dessert. Now I have two half drunk open bottles of wine in my house that will probably go stale before I can finish them. I bought a dessert at Costco but then a friend bought dessert as well... The dinner was delicious but it could have been just as delicious for much less expenditure.
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Clothes shopping in general is like this (at least here in the US). It's all a fucking game of discounts/sales/coupons/deals/exceptions/bullshit. And people like it that way. JCPenny tried to do reasonable everyday pricing with no bullshit circa 2012 and their sales fell as a result because people would rather feel like they're getting a deal.
I was dragged along clothes shopping with my girlfriend a couple weeks ago. She bought a pair of "$100" jeans and "$70" jeans. It was buy-one-get-one-50%-off, plus some mysterious other $25 discount for spending a certain amount, and then some other discount at the register for a total of $76 including tax. And this wasn't some special fancy combo dance, it was business as usual according to the cashier. My head just about exploded. How the hell does anyone shop without knowing the real price of anything?
Of course, I buy my own clothes exclusively at thrift stores except for shoes/socks/underwear, so I guess I'm just out of touch with "reality."
Anyone ever been to Peebles? Holy shit. Everything is on sale but most of it is still overpriced so then you need coupons which only work in certain combinations of things with prices that don't end in 8. I had a gift card to spend but didn't really need anything but socks and they were buy one get one half off...until you look a little closer. Despite signs for the sale on every rack there was a list of excluded brands in fine print which included every brand except for the generic.
HA! I worked for Peebles for 10 years part-time. The parent company, Stage Stores, Inc., has several different brands of stores. I just laughed at your post. We, (workers) even get confused by some of the coupons. "Good" brand names are almost always excluded from coupons. We are told it's because the vendor requires it. I don't know if that's true or not, but we at least get to place the blame outside of the store when people get mad the coupon won't work on their Nike socks or whatever. But if your store has signs on every rack, they're putting their signs up wrong. The store I was in was very particular that the signs were only on racks that were actually on sale. Just had to share.
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Clothes shopping in general is like this (at least here in the US). It's all a fucking game of discounts/sales/coupons/deals/exceptions/bullshit. And people like it that way. JCPenny tried to do reasonable everyday pricing with no bullshit circa 2012 and their sales fell as a result because people would rather feel like they're getting a deal.
I was dragged along clothes shopping with my girlfriend a couple weeks ago. She bought a pair of "$100" jeans and "$70" jeans. It was buy-one-get-one-50%-off, plus some mysterious other $25 discount for spending a certain amount, and then some other discount at the register for a total of $76 including tax. And this wasn't some special fancy combo dance, it was business as usual according to the cashier. My head just about exploded. How the hell does anyone shop without knowing the real price of anything?
Of course, I buy my own clothes exclusively at thrift stores except for shoes/socks/underwear, so I guess I'm just out of touch with "reality."
Anyone ever been to Peebles? Holy shit. Everything is on sale but most of it is still overpriced so then you need coupons which only work in certain combinations of things with prices that don't end in 8. I had a gift card to spend but didn't really need anything but socks and they were buy one get one half off...until you look a little closer. Despite signs for the sale on every rack there was a list of excluded brands in fine print which included every brand except for the generic.
HA! I worked for Peebles for 10 years part-time. The parent company, Stage Stores, Inc., has several different brands of stores. I just laughed at your post. We, (workers) even get confused by some of the coupons. "Good" brand names are almost always excluded from coupons. We are told it's because the vendor requires it. I don't know if that's true or not, but we at least get to place the blame outside of the store when people get mad the coupon won't work on their Nike socks or whatever. But if your store has signs on every rack, they're putting their signs up wrong. The store I was in was very particular that the signs were only on racks that were actually on sale. Just had to share.
Last time I was at Belks, they had a sale on everything from a particular brand. Every rack had a sign saying the sale, but only a few of the racks actually had that brand. I guess they thought while I was looking for that brand, I might find something else I liked or something. It was not fun. I'd never seen them do that before, might be a new person or something.
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I have to out myself, that I had an unmustachian weekend. Saturday I went to Costco, and after my $60 cash back credit statement, spent $180 on stuff that was just supposed to be for 2 meals (Sunday brunch and Easter dinner). I walked out with way too much stuff and also impulse items. At dinner we opened a bottle of red wine (to go with the lamb chops) and then a bottle of sparkling wine to go with dessert. Now I have two half drunk open bottles of wine in my house that will probably go stale before I can finish them. I bought a dessert at Costco but then a friend bought dessert as well... The dinner was delicious but it could have been just as delicious for much less expenditure.
If you had finished the wine you could have had fully drunk people and zero half drunk bottles... :) Solving one problem and potentially creating another.
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I have to out myself, that I had an unmustachian weekend. Saturday I went to Costco, and after my $60 cash back credit statement, spent $180 on stuff that was just supposed to be for 2 meals (Sunday brunch and Easter dinner). I walked out with way too much stuff and also impulse items. At dinner we opened a bottle of red wine (to go with the lamb chops) and then a bottle of sparkling wine to go with dessert. Now I have two half drunk open bottles of wine in my house that will probably go stale before I can finish them. I bought a dessert at Costco but then a friend bought dessert as well... The dinner was delicious but it could have been just as delicious for much less expenditure.
Oh, but those Costco lamb chops are SO good. We buy them once in a while for a treat (e.g. Easter dinner).
I never go to Costco while hungry or without a strict list. Too much temptation to buy wine and fancy cheese.
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I have to out myself, that I had an unmustachian weekend. Saturday I went to Costco, and after my $60 cash back credit statement, spent $180 on stuff that was just supposed to be for 2 meals (Sunday brunch and Easter dinner). I walked out with way too much stuff and also impulse items. At dinner we opened a bottle of red wine (to go with the lamb chops) and then a bottle of sparkling wine to go with dessert. Now I have two half drunk open bottles of wine in my house that will probably go stale before I can finish them. I bought a dessert at Costco but then a friend bought dessert as well... The dinner was delicious but it could have been just as delicious for much less expenditure.
Freeze the wine in ice cube trays. Then empty the wine cubes into a gallon bag. It will be a little messy, but you can then use the wine ice cubes to cook with (really good for deglazing pans).
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I have to out myself, that I had an unmustachian weekend. Saturday I went to Costco, and after my $60 cash back credit statement, spent $180 on stuff that was just supposed to be for 2 meals (Sunday brunch and Easter dinner). I walked out with way too much stuff and also impulse items. At dinner we opened a bottle of red wine (to go with the lamb chops) and then a bottle of sparkling wine to go with dessert. Now I have two half drunk open bottles of wine in my house that will probably go stale before I can finish them. I bought a dessert at Costco but then a friend bought dessert as well... The dinner was delicious but it could have been just as delicious for much less expenditure.
Freeze the wine in ice cube trays. Then empty the wine cubes into a gallon bag. It will be a little messy, but you can then use the wine ice cubes to cook with (really good for deglazing pans).
This is brilliant! Thank you eta. We host a group regularly and someone is always leaving an open bottle behind, which we never drink. I hate to dump it, and now I have a solution, thanks to you.
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I have to out myself, that I had an unmustachian weekend. Saturday I went to Costco, and after my $60 cash back credit statement, spent $180 on stuff that was just supposed to be for 2 meals (Sunday brunch and Easter dinner). I walked out with way too much stuff and also impulse items. At dinner we opened a bottle of red wine (to go with the lamb chops) and then a bottle of sparkling wine to go with dessert. Now I have two half drunk open bottles of wine in my house that will probably go stale before I can finish them. I bought a dessert at Costco but then a friend bought dessert as well... The dinner was delicious but it could have been just as delicious for much less expenditure.
Freeze the wine in ice cube trays. Then empty the wine cubes into a gallon bag. It will be a little messy, but you can then use the wine ice cubes to cook with (really good for deglazing pans).
This is brilliant! Thank you eta. We host a group regularly and someone is always leaving an open bottle behind, which we never drink. I hate to dump it, and now I have a solution, thanks to you.
Yay! I think I got this idea from America's Test Kitchen.
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I usually just put it in a screw top bottle (of the mini wine bottle variety) and store in the pantry for cooking. Or you could use a jar to store it. Either way, it won't go to waste.
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I usually just leave it in the same bottle and store it wherever for drinking. I might not be a wine connoisseur. Either way, it won't go to waste.
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Leftover wine? Leftover cake? Such things do not exist.
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Leftover wine? Leftover cake? Such things do not exist.
Exactly
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Leftover wine? Leftover cake? Such things do not exist.
Exactly
I just ate a piece of leftover cake at work. That was because they had a LOT of cake yesterday, to make sure no one was left out. And it was obviously stored away early.
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Leftover wine? Leftover cake? Such things do not exist.
Exactly
I just ate a piece of leftover cake at work. That was because they had a LOT of cake yesterday, to make sure no one was left out. And it was obviously stored away early.
When we have leftover cake it goes to the lounge and the students just swarm. I work at a university, so the grad students are perpetually hungry and broke. Food doesn't last long here.