Author Topic: "Good Investment" Purchases  (Read 6898 times)

Beard N Bones

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"Good Investment" Purchases
« on: December 23, 2017, 08:53:51 AM »
I've noticed that people like to use the term "Good Investment" in describing purchases they make.  Using the term "Good Investment" in trying to justify a big purchase drives me up the wall.  This thread gives examples of such nonsense...

Beard N Bones

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Re: "Good Investment" Purchases
« Reply #1 on: December 23, 2017, 08:56:20 AM »
http://thefinancialdiet.com/9-pricey-investment-purchases-i-actually-dont-regret/

This is a great example. The "thought process" behind this article is mine blowing.

Ms Ida

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Re: "Good Investment" Purchases
« Reply #2 on: December 23, 2017, 12:17:18 PM »
Paying rent is throwing away money but getting your eyebrows waxed is an investment?????  Clearly I do not understand what an investment means.

GuitarStv

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Re: "Good Investment" Purchases
« Reply #3 on: December 23, 2017, 12:21:48 PM »
Paying rent is throwing away money but getting your eyebrows waxed is an investment?????  Clearly I do not understand what an investment means.

If your waxed eyebrows land you a rich partner who will pay your bills, they were a good investment.

elementz_m

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Re: "Good Investment" Purchases
« Reply #4 on: December 23, 2017, 12:49:33 PM »
Paying rent is throwing away money but getting your eyebrows waxed is an investment?????  Clearly I do not understand what an investment means.

I think they've just missed the word "bargain" in their life. If a $450 pair of shoes stops you from spending $500 on low-quality shoes, they're potentially a bargain. They aren't an investment unless they provide a tangible return, IMO.

And in what universe is a car loan an investment? I think that's worse than the eyebrows, at least they could arguably give you more confidence and help you ask for a raise, or whatever.

Just Joe

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Re: "Good Investment" Purchases
« Reply #5 on: December 23, 2017, 07:35:50 PM »
Well if the car gets you to your job... Right???

Of course I'm sure the author of that article wasn't thinking about it the same way.

By the way my $50 boots have lasted me many winters now.

Apple_Tango

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Re: "Good Investment" Purchases
« Reply #6 on: December 23, 2017, 11:00:14 PM »
By the time I got to the end...sheesh. This website also has a YouTube channel marketed at 18 year olds, with some of the worst advice I’ve ever heard. This author sounds like she’s never heard of a budget in her life. $450 for fashion boots, $200 for jeans, but afraid that she couldn’t afford a car!!??

MrsPete

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Re: "Good Investment" Purchases
« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2018, 05:36:08 PM »
http://thefinancialdiet.com/9-pricey-investment-purchases-i-actually-dont-regret/

This is a great example. The "thought process" behind this article is mine blowing.
I agree with some of what she says:

- Yes, buying used furniture is smart.  Buying used furniture that's already in your apartment is really smart.  Her reasoning about "making things cheaper in the future" is kind of oddly worded, but I think she's awkwardly saying that her choice was cheaper than buying new from a furniture store.

- Frye boots, I don't know.  I've never owned a pair, but they are widely available used, and they do look better than my cheap Kohl's boots.  People say they'll last for decades and are worth resoling.  I suspect they're worth buying used.

- Yes to a modest car.  If, like me, you live in a place where a car is a necessity. 

- Yes to a good winter coat.  I hate the cold, and I've been wearing the same two coats -- one a long, dressy type and the other a Lands' End Squall jacket -- for well over a decade.  Probably pushing two decades.  Add good leather gloves to the list.

- Your hair and eyebrows, no way.  Those services last -- what? -- a couple months?  That idea's stupid on the face of it. 

- I can't quite understand her stance on tops.  She's saying she was clearing out her whole closet every year and giving away all her tops because they were out of style?  Stupid.  On the other hand, yes to buying quality classic items that'll last. 

- No to expensive workout classes.  So many options, none of them actually free (even if you're just a runner, you need quality shoes), but a whole lot of them aren't expensive.

- $70-250 jeans?  No, just no.  The proper place to buy jeans is Plato's Closet.  Preferably a Plato's Closet near a university at Christmas or late April /early May ... when students are moving out of their dorms.  You can get great jeans for $10/pair.  And, no, putting aside the cheapest of the cheap, expensive jeans aren't going to last longer.
By the way my $50 boots have lasted me many winters now.
Depends upon the style.  I have a pair of hiking boots, which I picked up for $2 at a yard sale, that I've had probably a decade.  I have a back-up pair that my daughter outgrew; I think I paid about $10 for them on ebay.  In contrast, I love to wear tall boots (which tend to cost about $50) with skirts to work in the winter, and those tend to last 2-3 years before they get "cracks" in the ankle area where the boots "bend" with my foot. 
« Last Edit: January 05, 2018, 05:39:50 PM by MrsPete »

Cranky

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Re: "Good Investment" Purchases
« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2018, 05:17:46 AM »
Many people confuse “expensive” with “high quality”, and sometimes that holds up and sometimes it doesn’t. I think it especially doesn’t with clothes and shoes, because so much of what you pay for is an intangible - style, designer, advertising.

Laura33

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Re: "Good Investment" Purchases
« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2018, 08:40:15 AM »
That article made my teeth hurt.  I especially love when she talks about how much money she will save now that she has “invested” in various “high-quality” clothing items that will last forever, so she won’t have to replace her clothes so often.  It strikes me that the person who replaces her entire wardrobe every year basically loves fashion and shopping, so where is the evidence that a year or two from now she won’t think those “classic” tops and jeans are hopelessly out of whatever the current style is at the time and she’ll “need” even more?  I’d say buying a few higher-quality pieces is a good start — certainly better than buying giant heaps of crap — but the jury is still out on whether she actually gets the use out of it that she anticipates, or whether “quality” is just a rationalization to buy nicer things.

Also, depreciating consumer stuff that you intend to use is not an “investment.”  It might be a need or a want, it might be a better or worse deal, it may be higher- or lower-quality.  But it’s not an “investment” (or if it is, it’s a pretty crappy one).  The car thing was hysterical.

Fundamentally the term “investment” has been co-opted by manufacturers of high-end consumer goods to make people feel better about spending more money.  I have no problems with the concept of buying less stuff that will last longer.  But I hate the intentional blurring of the lines between true investment and high-end consumption.  People are confused enough about money as it is.

Fomerly known as something

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Re: "Good Investment" Purchases
« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2018, 09:30:32 AM »
I think I wouldn't think this article was bunk if the title was pricey things I choose to spend money on.  Calling them investments is where the problem is.

Now I've never bought "soft furniture" from IKEA but I don't understand the comment it won't last.  My IKEA bookcases have made three 1000 mile moves and still look nice.

On Boots, why do you need 2 pairs a season even at Target, although I can't talk I just resoled my Mephisto boots that are at least 5 years old.  But I wear them almost daily/365 for work.  And I also get purchasing a good jacket but they aren't an investment.  Her jeans justifications confuse me.

Travel ok have fun but don't call it an investment.


A Definite Beta Guy

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Re: "Good Investment" Purchases
« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2018, 09:52:57 AM »
A $350 jacket on sale? Two boots a season from Target?
Okay, I actually could buy the Target thing. I bought a pair of shoes from Target once. $20. They started falling apart within 4-5 wears. And those weren't boots. If I had to actually buy something from Target, I would probably need to buy, like, 20 pairs a season.

Thrift shops have a bunch of really nice stuff that's quite cheap. The last time I went into the local Goodwill, there were plenty of $200-$300 jackets getting sold for 30-40.

Fomerly known as something

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Re: "Good Investment" Purchases
« Reply #12 on: January 06, 2018, 04:55:22 PM »
A $350 jacket on sale? Two boots a season from Target?
Okay, I actually could buy the Target thing. I bought a pair of shoes from Target once. $20. They started falling apart within 4-5 wears. And those weren't boots. If I had to actually buy something from Target, I would probably need to buy, like, 20 pairs a season.

Thrift shops have a bunch of really nice stuff that's quite cheap. The last time I went into the local Goodwill, there were plenty of $200-$300 jackets getting sold for 30-40.

You are completely right on the coat.  At first I was thinking well maybe a nice wool dress coat.  But I can find many in the $150-200 range from name brands without trying.  So I thought what about a big puffy coat from someplace like Patagoina.  I went an looked other than the ones made for the arctic they are full price at $350. 

I did go look at Canadian Goose, wholly expensive batman. 

Roe

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Re: "Good Investment" Purchases
« Reply #13 on: January 06, 2018, 05:42:11 PM »
"Self-vestments"

scottish

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Re: "Good Investment" Purchases
« Reply #14 on: January 07, 2018, 03:31:18 PM »
I dunno, I usually buy good quality clothes.   You have to be willing to use them until they wear out though.

For example, I bought some expensive capilene long underwear by Patagonia in...  1990  ...and it's still doing the job today.  $40 for 27 years (and counting) seems like an ok deal to me.

In fact, it's getting to be difficult to find good quality clothes.   Fortunately I don't have to shop very frequently.

Spiffsome

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Re: "Good Investment" Purchases
« Reply #15 on: January 08, 2018, 01:56:42 AM »
My theory is if the clothes have survived being purchased, washed, worn and then donated to the second hand store, they're high enough quality for me. The 'fast fashion' stuff plus anything really high-maintenance wouldn't survive that process. Once it's at the second hand store, it's durable enough to be worth paying $5 - $10 per item for.

marty998

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Re: "Good Investment" Purchases
« Reply #16 on: January 08, 2018, 02:05:12 AM »
Online betting houses talk a lot about the "good investments" you make placing bets in various "markets".

I hate with a passion how they have co-opted investment/financial language. Makes me sick.

Beard N Bones

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Re: "Good Investment" Purchases
« Reply #17 on: January 08, 2018, 06:19:35 AM »
... [D]epreciating consumer stuff that you intend to use is not an “investment.”  It might be a need or a want, it might be a better or worse deal, it may be higher- or lower-quality.  But it’s not an “investment” (or if it is, it’s a pretty crappy one)....
Fundamentally the term “investment” has been co-opted by manufacturers of high-end consumer goods to make people feel better about spending more money.  I have no problems with the concept of buying less stuff that will last longer.  But I hate the intentional blurring of the lines between true investment and high-end consumption.  People are confused enough about money as it is.

Yes, this.
Thank you for that comment. It's the rationalization of spending money, misusing the term "investment" that gets me! I'm all about good quality. And I'm all about being frugal. Ironically, pre-MMM I bought a Canada Goose jacket. They are very expense but of very high quality. This past week is been - 40 temperatures and the jacket has helped keep me warm. I love the jacket.... but it isn't an investment. At best, it's a decent purchase. As many benefits as I may think I have in owning this jacket, my jacket doesn't give me a monetary return. And that's a fact!

Beard N Bones

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Re: "Good Investment" Purchases
« Reply #18 on: January 08, 2018, 06:52:04 AM »
My brother bought an e-bike for just over $3G. Heard about it at the Christmas table. My sister said it was a good investment.

NO! It's a purchase, NOT AN INVESTMENT!

I'd argue he's only "investing" when he's actually using it - a health (and environmental?) investment. Certainly not a monetary investment.

boarder42

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Re: "Good Investment" Purchases
« Reply #19 on: January 08, 2018, 07:55:23 AM »
Many people confuse “expensive” with “high quality”, and sometimes that holds up and sometimes it doesn’t. I think it especially doesn’t with clothes and shoes, because so much of what you pay for is an intangible - style, designer, advertising.

i HATE this.  price does not dictate quality.  and even in some instances when it does you dont have to pay the full retail price for something - most goods we buy in america you can wait to buy they arent a need it now kinda thing.  And we have this beautiful new tool called the internet which has created things called deal forums.  --- so for example i wanted a new TV when we moved houses - i waited around 7 months to find a 65" TV for 80 dollars new, delivered and installed  - it was the highest rated 1080p TV ever and a samsung. 

This still is one of the largest gaps not discussed in depth enough in the forums around here. - its one thing to say just dont buy what you dont need and cut spending that way. but some of us like things and it would be good if there were some subset of this forum that discussed the best way to buy things and experiences as efficiently as possible be it travel, a TV a computer - or for many people simple grocery shopping - people still are ridiculously bad about how to effectively grocery shop.

MrsPete

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Re: "Good Investment" Purchases
« Reply #20 on: January 09, 2018, 02:50:10 PM »
My theory is if the clothes have survived being purchased, washed, worn and then donated to the second hand store, they're high enough quality for me. The 'fast fashion' stuff plus anything really high-maintenance wouldn't survive that process. Once it's at the second hand store, it's durable enough to be worth paying $5 - $10 per item for.
That's my theory too!  I remember clearly assembling a maternity wardrobe from consignment stores and yard sales ... but I purchased ONE tee-shirt from Target (to match a pair of shorts I'd bought used).  It was the most expensive item I'd purchased, and I loved it ... for the one wear it lasted.  Yep, after one wash, it shrank and "twisted" so that the seam was not on my side.

I'm a fast learner though, and it was a long, long time before I bought anything new again.

ketchup

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Re: "Good Investment" Purchases
« Reply #21 on: January 09, 2018, 03:20:00 PM »
Many people confuse “expensive” with “high quality”, and sometimes that holds up and sometimes it doesn’t. I think it especially doesn’t with clothes and shoes, because so much of what you pay for is an intangible - style, designer, advertising.

i HATE this.  price does not dictate quality.  and even in some instances when it does you dont have to pay the full retail price for something - most goods we buy in america you can wait to buy they arent a need it now kinda thing.  And we have this beautiful new tool called the internet which has created things called deal forums.  --- so for example i wanted a new TV when we moved houses - i waited around 7 months to find a 65" TV for 80 dollars new, delivered and installed  - it was the highest rated 1080p TV ever and a samsung. 

This still is one of the largest gaps not discussed in depth enough in the forums around here. - its one thing to say just dont buy what you dont need and cut spending that way. but some of us like things and it would be good if there were some subset of this forum that discussed the best way to buy things and experiences as efficiently as possible be it travel, a TV a computer - or for many people simple grocery shopping - people still are ridiculously bad about how to effectively grocery shop.
boarder42, I've seen you post this sort of thing pretty often.  What's your elevator pitch for the best way to deal-shop like you describe?  In a past life I cared more about that (getting the best deal on almost everything), but the last few years I've just been buying less shit.

For travel, TV, and computers, my strategies have been credit card churning (Italy/Greece and Fiji/New Zealand trips planned for this year), a new 43" 1080p Sharp for the price of the open box model ($229, modest discount over $249, but butter than nothing) about a year ago, laptops from the Dell Outlet ($1099 for an $1849 machine), and desktops built from parts on sale (~$2k for what would have been at least $3.5k prebuilt).  (Yes, computers that expensive are actually needed for my GF's business.)  For groceries, I meal plan, track prices, and shop with my middle finger.

Optimiser

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Re: "Good Investment" Purchases
« Reply #22 on: January 09, 2018, 04:51:59 PM »
I too hate the misuse of the term investment. While most of that article was ridiculous, this sentence takes it to the next level.

Quote
I’ve gone to Vegas a couple times, thank god, because I don’t think I could go on the Vegas bender I did in my mid-20s now that I’m in my late-20s. (I’m glad I invested in black out life when I still had it in me.)

Black out life (whatever that means) is not an investment

Beard N Bones

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Re: "Good Investment" Purchases
« Reply #23 on: January 09, 2018, 08:21:56 PM »
... its one thing to say just dont buy what you dont need and cut spending that way. but some of us like things and it would be good if there were some subset of this forum that discussed the best way to buy things and experiences...

Yeah. Saving 90% on "things" you like is great. But if you don't need what you bought and it brings very little value to your life (like a TV), you've still spent 100% too much.

faithless

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Re: "Good Investment" Purchases
« Reply #24 on: January 10, 2018, 12:46:52 AM »
... its one thing to say just dont buy what you dont need and cut spending that way. but some of us like things and it would be good if there were some subset of this forum that discussed the best way to buy things and experiences...

Yeah. Saving 90% on "things" you like is great. But if you don't need what you bought and it brings very little value to your life (like a TV), you've still spent 100% too much.

Yep, I used to think I was good with money because I used moneysavingexpert.com to find best interest rates on savings, and shop around and look for sales. The forums were full of people 'saving' by buying.

Now I come here to remind myself to actually save money, not 'save 50%', and invest instead.

boarder42

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Re: "Good Investment" Purchases
« Reply #25 on: January 10, 2018, 01:10:48 PM »
... its one thing to say just dont buy what you dont need and cut spending that way. but some of us like things and it would be good if there were some subset of this forum that discussed the best way to buy things and experiences...

Yeah. Saving 90% on "things" you like is great. But if you don't need what you bought and it brings very little value to your life (like a TV), you've still spent 100% too much.

So then you live in the smallest place habitable and only purchase the exact calories you need to maintain life. There aren't very many needs in life. Almost all spending is discretionary and therefore can be optimized regardless of what the choice is.

Beard N Bones

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Re: "Good Investment" Purchases
« Reply #26 on: January 10, 2018, 09:13:01 PM »
... its one thing to say just dont buy what you dont need and cut spending that way. but some of us like things and it would be good if there were some subset of this forum that discussed the best way to buy things and experiences...

Yeah. Saving 90% on "things" you like is great. But if you don't need what you bought and it brings very little value to your life (like a TV), you've still spent 100% too much.

So then you live in the smallest place habitable and only purchase the exact calories you need to maintain life. There aren't very many needs in life. Almost all spending is discretionary and therefore can be optimized regardless of what the choice is.

You are certainly heading down the right path with that line of thinking boarder42. No need to be a Consumerist Clown, right? A wise man once told the following parable:

Two close boyhood friends grow up and go their separate ways.  One becomes a humble monk, the other a rich and powerful minister to the king.  Years later they meet.  As they catch up, the minister (in his fine robes) takes pity on the thin, shabby monk.  Seeking to help, he says:
“You know, if you could learn to cater to the king you wouldn’t have to live on rice and beans.”
To which the monk replies:
“If you could learn to live on rice and beans you wouldn’t have to cater to the king.”

boarder42

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Re: "Good Investment" Purchases
« Reply #27 on: January 11, 2018, 06:40:50 AM »
... its one thing to say just dont buy what you dont need and cut spending that way. but some of us like things and it would be good if there were some subset of this forum that discussed the best way to buy things and experiences...

Yeah. Saving 90% on "things" you like is great. But if you don't need what you bought and it brings very little value to your life (like a TV), you've still spent 100% too much.

So then you live in the smallest place habitable and only purchase the exact calories you need to maintain life. There aren't very many needs in life. Almost all spending is discretionary and therefore can be optimized regardless of what the choice is.

You are certainly heading down the right path with that line of thinking boarder42. No need to be a Consumerist Clown, right? A wise man once told the following parable:

Two close boyhood friends grow up and go their separate ways.  One becomes a humble monk, the other a rich and powerful minister to the king.  Years later they meet.  As they catch up, the minister (in his fine robes) takes pity on the thin, shabby monk.  Seeking to help, he says:
“You know, if you could learn to cater to the king you wouldn’t have to live on rice and beans.”
To which the monk replies:
“If you could learn to live on rice and beans you wouldn’t have to cater to the king.”

so your answer to my question was no then you do not live like a monk.  b/c you're using some device to type into this forum.  how did you obtain this device.  what are you using to connect it to the internet - are you optimizing these things .... if you're gonna preach it you should live it .

i'll take a response to this as confirmation you're not living what you claim here... and stand by my comment that there needs to be more discussion about the best way to buy things you want not need. 

i mean shit MMM bought a freaking building and beer making equipment and lots of other things none of that is a need - and he optimized it by rolling it into his business.  His wife likes to make nice soaps so she optimized that by building it into a business.  those arent a need - he's litterally promoting things that arent needs - and my point is many people(even here) are shitty at some of the basic purchases we must make to live like grocery shopping - and if they are bad at that and working to get better they could benefit alot from learning better ways to buy things we all want not need.

Beard N Bones

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Re: "Good Investment" Purchases
« Reply #28 on: January 11, 2018, 10:43:05 AM »
... its one thing to say just dont buy what you dont need and cut spending that way. but some of us like things and it would be good if there were some subset of this forum that discussed the best way to buy things and experiences...

Yeah. Saving 90% on "things" you like is great. But if you don't need what you bought and it brings very little value to your life (like a TV), you've still spent 100% too much.

So then you live in the smallest place habitable and only purchase the exact calories you need to maintain life. There aren't very many needs in life. Almost all spending is discretionary and therefore can be optimized regardless of what the choice is.

You are certainly heading down the right path with that line of thinking boarder42. No need to be a Consumerist Clown, right? A wise man once told the following parable:

Two close boyhood friends grow up and go their separate ways.  One becomes a humble monk, the other a rich and powerful minister to the king.  Years later they meet.  As they catch up, the minister (in his fine robes) takes pity on the thin, shabby monk.  Seeking to help, he says:
“You know, if you could learn to cater to the king you wouldn’t have to live on rice and beans.”
To which the monk replies:
“If you could learn to live on rice and beans you wouldn’t have to cater to the king.”

so your answer to my question was no then you do not live like a monk.  b/c you're using some device to type into this forum.  how did you obtain this device.  what are you using to connect it to the internet - are you optimizing these things .... if you're gonna preach it you should live it .

i'll take a response to this as confirmation you're not living what you claim here... and stand by my comment that there needs to be more discussion about the best way to buy things you want not need. 

i mean shit MMM bought a freaking building and beer making equipment and lots of other things none of that is a need - and he optimized it by rolling it into his business.  His wife likes to make nice soaps so she optimized that by building it into a business.  those arent a need - he's litterally promoting things that arent needs - and my point is many people(even here) are shitty at some of the basic purchases we must make to live like grocery shopping - and if they are bad at that and working to get better they could benefit alot from learning better ways to buy things we all want not need.

The vast majority of people in society spend what they earn.  If they get $10, they will spend it - and most of it will be on stuff that brings very little value to their lives.  MMM confronts this mindset and way of life by saying, save today so tomorrow you have freedom. So, most people don't have a problem with the spending part, they have a problem with the investing/saving-for-tomorrow part.  Even if this group were to "save" 90% on a TV, they will spend that savings on some other item that brings very little value to their life.  Thereby, they trade their financial freedom for stuff.
There is another group of people that have learned how to save, as saving time and money brings freedom.  This group of people is the minority in the developed world.  They know that most stuff doesn't buy them lasting happiness.  This group is reflective on what kind of value their purchases bring their way - in the short term and in the long term.   That is the way they reach financial independence far sooner than the average 9-5er.  Would you agree with me thus far boarder42, that there are more people in the developed world that are in the "spend" category than the "save/invest" category?  Are there more people living a life of uncontrolled frivolity than there are of mindful spending/saving/investing?

If you would say, "yes, of course," then I ask you the questions: Why would we put huge efforts into promoting savings in spending, when most people (even on this forum) need to first learn how to change their mindset and invest in their future?  Should we not be focusing on the majority, sharing with them how to save and invest for their freedom?  And don't you think, if a person is already on-board with investing/saving for one's future, that they will automatically be thinking and researching how to best spend their money? 
Finally, owning sh!t isn't all that it's cracked up to be.  Even if a person is able to save and FIRE, I'd say living simply, with very little possessions, is freeing.  This is often seen in "poor" countries and "poor" societies where having few possessions doesn't equate to unhappiness.  The opposite is true, they are often more happy and content with life.  We often don't own possessions, they own us.

boarder42

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Re: "Good Investment" Purchases
« Reply #29 on: January 11, 2018, 12:04:39 PM »
your assumption that people are thinking about and researching how to spend their money is greatly flawed as many here do not.  i actually got some PMs from my post asking about how i creatively buy things that i want for ridiculously low prices. 

i agree it could muddy the waters a bit for some new comers but many of life necessities fit into the buying something properly category - from shelter to food.  then controlling yourself to purchase something you want and waiting for the deal to appear is something not discussed enough -

mm1970

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Re: "Good Investment" Purchases
« Reply #30 on: January 11, 2018, 01:51:56 PM »
your assumption that people are thinking about and researching how to spend their money is greatly flawed as many here do not.  i actually got some PMs from my post asking about how i creatively buy things that i want for ridiculously low prices. 

i agree it could muddy the waters a bit for some new comers but many of life necessities fit into the buying something properly category - from shelter to food.  then controlling yourself to purchase something you want and waiting for the deal to appear is something not discussed enough -

Well, research has to start somewhere, so ask the experts!

If you want to know how to get food for the least amount possible in my town, I can help out.

If you want to know how to get high quality clothing - don't ask me!  I hate to shop!

But I will agree with thrift stores, figuring the clothing has survived.
Decade and a half ago, I lost a bunch of weight, from a size 18 to an 8.  By the time I got down to size 12 I got smart and stopped buying new jeans.  My thrift jeans were my fave.
Of course over the next decade I went through two pregnancies and those fluctuations meant 60 pounds, plus aging didn't help.  And being female, I end up with more than one size.

In any event, I've got jeans that are decent and in good shape that lasted me...probably 10 years?  Those jeans, which are my favorites, are unfortunately finally wearing out.  I have a couple of newer pairs that are too big.  Occasionally I'll wear them with a belt or forcefully try to shrink them in the wash.

Most of my clothing, thus, is very old and was given to me.  I really have no idea how to shop for cheaper items - if it's not available at Costco...I do occasionally go to thrift stores, but the ones here are fairly expensive still.

Mostly we just avoid spending money, rather than trying to find what we want for less.  I mean, we'll do that too occasionally. Like: my 11 yo needs a bicycle, I should probably start perusing Craigslist or FB.  Thing is, he'll likely grow out of it quickly, so the better idea is to ask my mom friends if their boys grew out of their bikes.  Because my kid is a shrimp.

TheGrimSqueaker

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Re: "Good Investment" Purchases
« Reply #31 on: January 11, 2018, 05:34:33 PM »
Both MMM and Mrs. MMM are post-FIRE. That's why MMM can afford to set up a side interest that involved brewing, and why Mrs. MMM could afford to launch a soap making business that took a while to become profitable. They were badasses who did what was necessary by working hard and embracing a lifestyle of what many people consider extreme frugality, to build a 'stache big enough to pay their expenses after early retirement. As part of this process they eliminated most luxuries and learned to get by with less. They also invested aggressively and experimented with alternate income streams such as this blog and its forum. Result: FI.

Once FI was attained, it appears to me that MMM and Mrs. MMM shifted their attention to the traditional activity of the independently wealthy-- doing whatever the fuck they please provided it's within their means and not in violation of any public decency laws. They work (when it suits them) on ventures that may or may not turn a profit immediately. They buy stuff. They can afford spend time and money this way, including on "things", because their invested income stream and side businesses are more than enough to pay for those luxuries.

It's vitally important to point out that luxuries bought by a person *after* FI are affordable in a way luxuries bought *prior to* FI are not.

People who are FI can make purchases or "waste" money in ways that people who are still working toward FI can't, because people working toward FI should be killing debt and socking surplus away in the 'stache. To do otherwise-- to spend instead of saving and investing-- means to postpone FI. There's a relationship between the amount of income you earn and how far away FI is (more income = faster FI) but there's also a relationship between spending and FI. The less you spend, the more you can pay down debt (if you have it) and the more you have to invest toward FI.

Bleating that spending money on this luxury or that luxury is OK for a person who is not yet FI, because MMM or Mrs. MMM does it, misses the entire point.

Behold the facepunch: people who have not yet achieved FI, or who are in debt and struggling to get out, have no business spending money on luxuries the way FI people can and do. This doesn't mean they will be facepunched if they don't cut their luxury spending to zero (although there are people who do). It means that a seeker of FI must carefully plan, selecting a few luxuries that help make life worthwhile but passing on the rest, particularly the kind of expensive possessions and consumption treadmill that Beard N Bones rightly notes can produce a situation where your belongings own you. It means a seeker of FI must economize, optimize, and prioritize. It also means they must do as boarder42 suggests, and exercise self-control to wait for a good deal to appear.

After FI, a person has the right to maintain a minimalist lifestyle if they see fit. They also have the right to do otherwise if they wish.