Author Topic: "Do you recognize that you are fortunate to have the bike commute option?"  (Read 30980 times)

Sam E

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Quote from: bacchi
I'm a sopping sponge after a 2.5 mile commute in 80 degree temps. I have an iced nalgene to drink from at lights and carry 2 ice packs to put on my neck and wrists when I get to work. I'm afraid I don't buy your story of only barely sweating after 5 miles.

Or...people have different responses to heat.

Riding a bike 5 miles is equivalent to running 1-2 miles:

http://www.active.com/articles/convert-your-cycling-miles-to-running-miles-and-vice-versa

If you can't do that without being exhausted you are out of shape, your bike sucks, or you are riding up a mountain directly into the sun while living in a humid climate.

Did I write that I was exhausted? Further, did I write that I can't or don't do it? I just doubted your ability to barely be sweating after 5 miles.

I am, however, able to bike to work when it's 45 (7C) outside without sweating and with only wearing shorts and a t-shirt. Ya know, because people have different responses to heat.

Maybe you're above-average in both hot and cold conditions. For that, congratulations. I am only above-average in cold conditions.

I used to sweat like crazy when I spent any time outside in the heat, let alone while exercising outside.

In the short term I started wearing clothes made of wicking material (Wal-mart sells regular-fit polyester t-shirts and you can pick up similar polo shirts places) and that kept me dry so I just had to wipe off my forehead and arms.

In the long term I started leaving the AC in my apartment at higher temperatures and not using AC at all when driving (windows only). This has actually made my body adjust to the hot humidity of summer and now I sweat a much smaller, more reasonable amount.

Turns out my real problem was my body simply never adjusting itself since I spent so much time in AC, so the hot weather overwhelmed me and caused an extreme reaction that has now been tempered somewhat. I still sweat more than most people, but to a much less extreme degree. I still highly recommend wearing as little cotton as possible, though. Synthetic wicking materials are a godsend and I'm never going back to cotton.

mm1970

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It's a time thing too.  I know this is MMM and all, but time is an issue for many.  Some people live far from work and cannot move closer.  As in, two people with two jobs in two different places.  Or they are underwater on their house, or they can't afford a house in the new place or...



Don't put yourself in a box.  All of things you listed can be changed.  In the short term, they may be a fixed cost or situation, but in the long term anything can be adjusted.  However, if you don't want to change, then that is your reason for not biking to work. It is not because you aren't privileged enough.  It is your decision that you love living in x place more than the desire to bike to work.  No big deal, but I think people often say they can't do something when it is because of their own choices not luck or some "blessing."
I don't know, I guess my world isn't black and white, it's shades of gray.

1.  Moving closer to work.  Cannot be done for many because they cannot afford it.  I live in Coastal So Cal.  Most people cannot afford to buy any kind of home here (including a condo or mobile home), and rents are through the roof right now.  I've seen many friends struggle for months to find an affordable rental, only to finally give up and move 40 miles away with their kids.

2.  Alternate to #1: get a job where you live.  This is something that I've seen happen - I had a friend (married, no kids) who had a great long-term job at the university, give that up (and the pension) to get a job where he lived.  At a great pay cut.  Right now, the jobs market hasn't quite recovered like I keep hearing it is.  That doesn't mean people don't try, but much of the time they aren't successful.  The higher paying jobs are right here, the affordable housing is not right here.

3.  Changes in jobs, etc.  We bought our house in between our two jobs, for the very reason that we liked to bike to work.  Then my spouse's company went belly up, and he got a new job.  It is extremely rare these days (especially in engineering), to have the same job for decades, simply because the companies go out of business. 

4.  Kids.  That's the time factor.  I can't go back in time and not have my kids (nor would I), but simply put: I cannot manage to bike to work and pick up the kids by the time they have to be picked up AND work full time.  It was do-able at part time, but I am no longer allowed to work part time.  For awhile I was just using up PTO each time I did it (I would just take time off the one day a week I did it), but then I ran out of PTO.  So, should I get a new job?  (I've been looking.)  Should I buy a new house closer to work?  (It would cost $40,000 to sell our house, assuming we could sell the house and buy a different one for the same price near work.  Which is a fair estimate.)

well, no.

That doesn't mean I'll never ride a bike to work again.  It just means that right now, I won't.  It's not black and white.  It's life at a time when I have two small children in two separate locations, both of which have to be picked up at a certain time.  There are seasons to everything (also: I didn't ride to work when I was breastfeeding and pumping, because I simply didn't feel like carrying my clothing, my food, a cooler, and a breastpump all on my bicycle).  At least I was smart enough to laugh at my friends who bought their larger, cheaper homes 30 miles south (50-60 min one way drive) when they told me to buy there too, because I'm not crazy! 

This is my one little problem with some people on MMM.  I understand that engineers are often people who see things in black and white.  It's why a lot of lawyers HATE to have them on juries.  But in reality, a lot of changes simply aren't time-effective or cost-effective.  Doesn't mean you don't try (hey, I've been job hunting), but times change.

When I was in DC I lived where I could take the metro or walk to work (eventually I moved to within a mile of work).  It was great!  Many people rented apartments or houses close to work.  A few people with families bought homes, but the affordable ones were outside the beltway, or maybe just inside the beltway.  So they all drove in or maybe took the metro if they were near a line.  It probably wasn't too bad.  But then they moved things around and moved the office to the Navy Yard, which is 5 miles further and in heavy traffic.

A few of the people eventually moved (when the housing market recovered to where they could afford it ) - generally the people with grown children or no children.  Those who have children in school, however, opted to stay to not uproot their kids.  Because sometimes it's about more than just biking to work.

music lover

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Good points MMM1970.

Not everyone can find affordable housing close to work, and not everyone wants to give up some of their limited personal time just to save a few $$s commuting. You value time with your family more than saving a few bucks...good for you. I think that's the smart choice and I would do the same if I was in your position.

Another way to look at it...if you lead a very busy life, and after work, chores, errands, etc., you find that you only have 2 hours a day of "free" time on weekdays, why would you want to waste 1 of those precious hours every day on a longer commute? Is giving up half of your free time during the week worth saving a few $$s??

Dollar Slice

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Yup. I definitely consider anything under a mile "too short to bike".
I used to work in an office that was about a mile from my home (17 minutes walking). A colleague of mine lived slightly less than halfway along my route (8 minutes walking). He insisted on cycling, which was hilarious. Even though he was riding a bike on a slight downhill grade the entire way, the inefficiencies of locking/unlocking and donning his gear were such that I would occasionally beat him to his house and once or twice a week we'd arrive at the exact same time.

ginastarke

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Do I? YES! Cruising home with good music on a nice summer night  like tonight, blessed, lucky, fortunate, call it what you want, it's just one of those "life doesn't get better than this" moments

Every time I get the question" why don't you drive?" I get a little queasy thinking of giving up one best parts of my day to drain my wallet into  a money sucking machine.

GuitarStv

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Another way to look at it...if you lead a very busy life, and after work, chores, errands, etc., you find that you only have 2 hours a day of "free" time on weekdays, why would you want to waste 1 of those precious hours every day on a longer commute? Is giving up half of your free time during the week worth saving a few $$s??

Cycling isn't just about saving money (which it does).  Most people need more exercise.  Everyone should be getting at a bare minimum 1/2 an hour of exercise a day to be healthy.  Bike commuting lets you kill many birds with one stone:

- You become healthier if you weren't getting exercise in your free time or at work
- You usually don't waste much more time than if you were getting exercise after work
- You are helping to reduce waste and pollution
- You are helping to reduce cycling deaths in the area that you live (study after study have shown that the more people cycling on the road, the fewer cyclists are killed on a percentage basis)
- You are saving money

Pick any one point and you could probably argue it down . . . but taken together, it's difficult to find something more awesome for your life than bike commuting.

Sam E

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Another way to look at it...if you lead a very busy life, and after work, chores, errands, etc., you find that you only have 2 hours a day of "free" time on weekdays, why would you want to waste 1 of those precious hours every day on a longer commute? Is giving up half of your free time during the week worth saving a few $$s??

Cycling isn't just about saving money (which it does).  Most people need more exercise.  Everyone should be getting at a bare minimum 1/2 an hour of exercise a day to be healthy.  Bike commuting lets you kill many birds with one stone:

- You become healthier if you weren't getting exercise in your free time or at work
- You usually don't waste much more time than if you were getting exercise after work
- You are helping to reduce waste and pollution
- You are helping to reduce cycling deaths in the area that you live (study after study have shown that the more people cycling on the road, the fewer cyclists are killed on a percentage basis)
- You are saving money

Pick any one point and you could probably argue it down . . . but taken together, it's difficult to find something more awesome for your life than bike commuting.

Regarding the time and exercise points, my brother actually brought that up while we were discussing bike commuting. He's not a fan of the idea because of the added time, but I know he spends half an hour on an exercise machine at home. I told him his commute is 15 minutes each way and he spends 30 minutes exercising, for a total of 1 hour pre-planned to be used. I could bike his commute 30 minutes each way while exercising, for a total of 1 hour, with the added benefit of exercising twice as much as he does with no added time. That actually clicked with him and he understands now why I've been saying biking is not as big a waste of time as he thinks.

Mississippi Mudstache

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When I moved to Florida for my job last year, we were very purposeful about moving to a place that would allow me to bike commute. I work on an island, and most of my co-workers live off the island, where rents and home prices are cheaper, so they can afford bigger houses (that cost more to heat and cool) and drive farther (costing them fuel and depreciation). So I doubt they're actually saving any money by living off the island - they're just paying the same amount for a bigger house. We ended up renting an 800 square foot, 2 bed 1 bath duplex - for 2 adults and 2 kids - for $900/month. It's 1/4 mile from the beach and 4 miles from my office, following safe, low-speed, and low-traffic roads.

I guess I would say that we are fortunate - not because we magically ended up with the option to bike commute, but because we had the foresight to choose an employer on a bikeable island, to rent a house within easy biking distance, and to accept a smaller than normal dwelling because we are willing to spend more time outside (for example, at the beach that's 1/4 mile away) instead of cooped up inside all the time. Fortunate indeed.

skunkfunk

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Quote from: bacchi
I'm a sopping sponge after a 2.5 mile commute in 80 degree temps. I have an iced nalgene to drink from at lights and carry 2 ice packs to put on my neck and wrists when I get to work. I'm afraid I don't buy your story of only barely sweating after 5 miles.

Or...people have different responses to heat.

Riding a bike 5 miles is equivalent to running 1-2 miles:

http://www.active.com/articles/convert-your-cycling-miles-to-running-miles-and-vice-versa

If you can't do that without being exhausted you are out of shape, your bike sucks, or you are riding up a mountain directly into the sun while living in a humid climate.

Did I write that I was exhausted? Further, did I write that I can't or don't do it? I just doubted your ability to barely be sweating after 5 miles.

I am, however, able to bike to work when it's 45 (7C) outside without sweating and with only wearing shorts and a t-shirt. Ya know, because people have different responses to heat.

Maybe you're above-average in both hot and cold conditions. For that, congratulations. I am only above-average in cold conditions.

I'm not sure about these guys who don't sweat until 5 miles. Is that supposed to be a good thing? I just about start to sweat if I even think about moving.

Cookie78

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Another way to look at it...if you lead a very busy life, and after work, chores, errands, etc., you find that you only have 2 hours a day of "free" time on weekdays, why would you want to waste 1 of those precious hours every day on a longer commute? Is giving up half of your free time during the week worth saving a few $$s??

Cycling isn't just about saving money (which it does).  Most people need more exercise.  Everyone should be getting at a bare minimum 1/2 an hour of exercise a day to be healthy.  Bike commuting lets you kill many birds with one stone:

- You become healthier if you weren't getting exercise in your free time or at work
- You usually don't waste much more time than if you were getting exercise after work
- You are helping to reduce waste and pollution
- You are helping to reduce cycling deaths in the area that you live (study after study have shown that the more people cycling on the road, the fewer cyclists are killed on a percentage basis)
- You are saving money

Pick any one point and you could probably argue it down . . . but taken together, it's difficult to find something more awesome for your life than bike commuting.

Regarding the time and exercise points, my brother actually brought that up while we were discussing bike commuting. He's not a fan of the idea because of the added time, but I know he spends half an hour on an exercise machine at home. I told him his commute is 15 minutes each way and he spends 30 minutes exercising, for a total of 1 hour pre-planned to be used. I could bike his commute 30 minutes each way while exercising, for a total of 1 hour, with the added benefit of exercising twice as much as he does with no added time. That actually clicked with him and he understands now why I've been saying biking is not as big a waste of time as he thinks.

This is almost my exact situation too, except I wasn't spending the 30 min extra for exercise before I started biking. I needed to, but I wasn't. Now I take an extra 30 min to commute (not including time I would have also wasted waiting for the bus - up to 20 min per day). I may be spending a few extra minutes per day, but I'm getting that hour of exercise that I struggled to find time for before. As an added bonus I've also eliminated stressful traffic and am saving money. :)

mm1970

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Another way to look at it...if you lead a very busy life, and after work, chores, errands, etc., you find that you only have 2 hours a day of "free" time on weekdays, why would you want to waste 1 of those precious hours every day on a longer commute? Is giving up half of your free time during the week worth saving a few $$s??

Cycling isn't just about saving money (which it does).  Most people need more exercise.  Everyone should be getting at a bare minimum 1/2 an hour of exercise a day to be healthy.  Bike commuting lets you kill many birds with one stone:

- You become healthier if you weren't getting exercise in your free time or at work
- You usually don't waste much more time than if you were getting exercise after work
- You are helping to reduce waste and pollution
- You are helping to reduce cycling deaths in the area that you live (study after study have shown that the more people cycling on the road, the fewer cyclists are killed on a percentage basis)
- You are saving money

Pick any one point and you could probably argue it down . . . but taken together, it's difficult to find something more awesome for your life than bike commuting.
I know right, I LOVED biking to work for all of these reasons!  It was more efficient for sure. (Note: I only did it 1-2x a week). I mean, here's the comparison:
1.  Drive to work option: 
- Gym: 15 min round trip driving, 45 minute workout, 1 hour of time
- Commute: 15 min in the morning, 45 minute in the afternoon (which involved picking up the kiddo)
- Total time: 2 hours, with 45 minute exercise

2.  Bike to work option:
- Bike to work: 55 minutes in the morning (also the commute!)
- Drive home: 45 minutes (pick up the kiddo - note I only biked one way)
- Total time: 1 hour 40 minutes, with 55 minutes of exercise


But working out at the gym in the morning has a big advantage - I can do it while the kids are asleep, so I'm not missing out on any time with them.  Biking to work "saves" 20 minutes but I "lose" 55 minutes of time with my kids.


The disadvantages are there: money (pay to belong to gym), gas (I drive there).  But the advantage of doing it when the kids are sleeping is just a huge advantage that I'm not willing to give up.
Also, what has changed is my work hours (added 8-10 hours a week), plus now I have two children and they divide my time, and the commute home is now an hour because I have two stops instead of one.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2015, 10:54:18 AM by mm1970 »

Baron235

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It's a time thing too.  I know this is MMM and all, but time is an issue for many.  Some people live far from work and cannot move closer.  As in, two people with two jobs in two different places.  Or they are underwater on their house, or they can't afford a house in the new place or...



Don't put yourself in a box.  All of things you listed can be changed.  In the short term, they may be a fixed cost or situation, but in the long term anything can be adjusted.  However, if you don't want to change, then that is your reason for not biking to work. It is not because you aren't privileged enough.  It is your decision that you love living in x place more than the desire to bike to work.  No big deal, but I think people often say they can't do something when it is because of their own choices not luck or some "blessing."
I don't know, I guess my world isn't black and white, it's shades of gray.

...

A few of the people eventually moved (when the housing market recovered to where they could afford it ) - generally the people with grown children or no children.  Those who have children in school, however, opted to stay to not uproot their kids.  Because sometimes it's about more than just biking to work.

I think you are missing my point. It is not black versus white.  I don't see bike commuting as the be all end all.  It is the mindset that you can't do it versus choose not to.  People often complain about MMM and other FIRE believers saying they can't do it.  Very few people actually can't do it.  Most people choose not to do it. 

In you examples all those people are choosing job, home or location to raise a child over a bike commute.  It is not that they can't, it is that they value those things over moving to spot that would allow them to bike.   Once again, it is about the attitude of being stuck in your circumstances or realizing that you are choosing your circumstances. 

For 99% of the people who don't bike commute, I would bet it is their choices that prevent bike commuting. And there is nothing wrong with that. Everyone has different values. 

TRBeck

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For 99% of the people who don't bike commute, I would bet it is their choices that prevent bike commuting.
So are you saying mm1970 is a 1-percenter?

oinkette

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Yeah sorry, I live in Houston.  I know there are people on these threads that do as well and bike to work.  I value my life more than that. There are FEW bike lanes and those that exist are sometimes laughably narrow (Wesleyan any Houstonians?).  I live cheaply 3 miles from work downtown and would rather walk it (weather permitting) than risk sharing the road with the crazy drivers here. Even that has put me in danger more times than I care to think about!


AlanStache

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This thread has brought into focus some of the less than positive thoughts about the MMM.com world I have been having lately.  To often what is written comes off as "I have done XYZ so therefore there is no reason you cant or should not have already also done XYZ despite any limiting factors". 

There is a balance between helping people to see outside of there comfort zones and being an ass.  I know that a lot artistic appeal of MMM and the forum is the face punching but sometimes it can come off wrong or as putting people down rather than helping them to see new options. 

Trivializing the large changes it would take for many people to get from there current position in life to one where bike commuting were a viable option does not come off well.  Many people would have to sell there home and change jobs if not move to a new city.  The gap between "sell your home, move to a new city and get a new job" vs "bike commuting it not possible" does not let much light through.  All to often it seems we make statements here that reduce to "we all were born of woman therefore all had equal opportunity in life."  This position is idiotic.

If you structured your life so that you can and do bike commute, congratulations you are a rock star-fucking Aerosmith crossed with Nirvana; but please remember not only does everyone not get to be an astronaut, many could not have even applied.  The costs some people would had to have paid to bike commute were simply to large. 

This is my one little problem with some people on MMM.  I understand that engineers are often people who see things in black and white.  It's why a lot of lawyers HATE to have them on juries.  But in reality, a lot of changes simply aren't time-effective or cost-effective.  Doesn't mean you don't try (hey, I've been job hunting), but times change.
Come on I'm an engineer :-p

Re heat issues:  Dont fuck with the heat, know you limits and stay within them.  I had to be wheeled into the back of an ambulance after a bad overheat/dehydration episode.  Screwed my body up long term and could have easily caused brain damage.  The effects lasted years. 

GuitarStv

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I sweat like a pig in the heat.  Much over 17 degrees (62 F for you backwards Americans) and I need to shower off after cycling more than a mile or two.  Is there a gym, YMCA, or some other kind of public shower that you could find near your work?

(I know that some people have had good luck using wipes, doing an impromptu 'toilet shower', changing clothes, etc. . . as well).

MLKnits

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I'd say the good thing is that if you're going to be sweating walking to the bus, you may as well sweat on a bike in different clothes, and change into your work clothes. I wear a suit at work, and sweating in a blazer is my least favourite thing (and expensive, with dry cleaning).

Depending on how your office is set up, being able to strip at a sink and use a washcloth really does the trick for me. My main suggestion would be to stay in your bike clothes, if possible, until you've cooled down--that way you won't just keep sweating once the work clothes are on.

Honestly, by this time last summer I'd spent a fortune on dry cleaning just from sweating between the car and my apartment/the car and my office. Now, my suits live at my office, and I sweat in easy-to-clean t-shirts. It's been much better, even if it means some washcloth "showers" in my office washroom.

Sam E

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I find that if I shower in the morning, wear "clinical strength" antiperspirant deodorant, and avoid cotton clothes, I don't have to do anything more than towel off my head and limbs on the most hot and humid days and I'm left with no stink. A common misconception is that sweat is odorous, when it's actually various bacteria/dirt/oil that builds up causing the odor, or the sweat being trapped in fabric and not drying properly. If you shower just before leaving you clean off all the stuff that will stink on the outside of your skin (underarms will tend to stink regardless, hence the extra-strength antiperspirant deodorant), and if you wear synthetic wicking fabrics and avoid cotton then your clothes will wick away the sweat so it can evaporate properly. Arrive at work early so you can cool off properly as well, I afford myself about 10 minutes.

This is what I do daily and I find I'll only stink on the way home and really only on particularly hot or muggy days. I do also only wear my biking clothes once before tossing them in the hamper to wash, especially since they double as my work clothes (t-shirts and shorts are allowed at work, so I take full advantage).

Another thing that's actually helped me control my sweating is to simply not rely on air conditioning so much. When I drive, I use no AC on even the hottest days, I just roll down the windows. At home I use AC only when really necessary, but I also don't turn the temperature down too far, but preferably I just open the windows at night and close them during the day. Doing all of this has actually made me much more resistant to the heat and humidity. Where I used to be a sweaty mess past 80F, I now sit comfortably in 85F while others complain how hot it is because I'm not constantly sitting in artificially cold environments that make my body not adjust to the heat, I'm actually exposing myself to the outside air and temperatures regularly. I'll admit the transition was rough, though, but ultimately it's been worth it.

Le Poisson

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I can think of 3 coworkers whose homes I literally ride past on my way to work. They all have reasons they can't ride in. Call me lucky that I can do it with a kid in a bike trailer and another riding on his own.

You make your own fortune in many ways.

LouLou

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I guess I would say that we are fortunate - not because we magically ended up with the option to bike commute, but because we had the foresight to choose an employer on a bikeable island, to rent a house within easy biking distance, and to accept a smaller than normal dwelling because we are willing to spend more time outside (for example, at the beach that's 1/4 mile away) instead of cooped up inside all the time. Fortunate indeed.

Life is a combination of choices and fortune, even though I also believe that choices have the larger effect.  You got a job with an employer in a bikeable area, but you didn't create that job right?  The employer's hiring needs were out of your control, just as an example.

Genuine question: do any of you bill by the hour for your jobs? Is it worth it to bike? Biking would take me over an hour each way, which is a lot of billable time to lose during the day.  I think the money I would lose during those hours would outweigh the benefits of biking. I have been thinking about switching to public transportation instead - I can drive to the train station and work on the train, and my employer pays for passes.  Then I'm barely losing billable time that way.

Another question: Do any of you work far away from your partner's work? How did you resolve that?  DH and I work far apart, and that pretty much determined how we structured our lives.  I confident we made the best decision living between them (I even had a post here about it before we moved), but I do miss living near where I worked like I could when I was single!

Le Poisson

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I guess I would say that we are fortunate - not because we magically ended up with the option to bike commute, but because we had the foresight to choose an employer on a bikeable island, to rent a house within easy biking distance, and to accept a smaller than normal dwelling because we are willing to spend more time outside (for example, at the beach that's 1/4 mile away) instead of cooped up inside all the time. Fortunate indeed.

Life is a combination of choices and fortune, even though I also believe that choices have the larger effect.  You got a job with an employer in a bikeable area, but you didn't create that job right?  The employer's hiring needs were out of your control, just as an example.

Genuine question: do any of you bill by the hour for your jobs? Is it worth it to bike? Biking would take me over an hour each way, which is a lot of billable time to lose during the day.  I think the money I would lose during those hours would outweigh the benefits of biking. I have been thinking about switching to public transportation instead - I can drive to the train station and work on the train, and my employer pays for passes.  Then I'm barely losing billable time that way.

Another question: Do any of you work far away from your partner's work? How did you resolve that?  DH and I work far apart, and that pretty much determined how we structured our lives.  I confident we made the best decision living between them (I even had a post here about it before we moved), but I do miss living near where I worked like I could when I was single!

Until your commute is considered billable time, I wouldn't put it into the equation. Today can you bill your employer for the drive into the office? I never could when I was in consulting. My billable time started when I hit the 'ON' button on my computer and ended when I turned it off at the end of the day.

As much as Liked to feel my time was worth XXX.XX dollars per hour, the reality was that once I stood up from my desk, it was worth nothing.

My Wife and I used to live in Keswick. She worked in Vaughan and I worked in Richmond Hill (you can google if you want). While we had those commutes, I would put my bike on the back of her car and we would carpool south as far as was reasonable. Then we would get off the freeway and stop in a parking lot where I would offload my bike and continue another 4km south to my office while she drove the rest of the way to hers.

Coming home, she would email me when she left the office and I would bike to meet her back in that same lot. Load the bike, and ride the rest of the way home in the car.

Once we had enough of commuting, we both started searching for work where we wouldn't need to cycle, and literally crafted our future finding jobs together and a house within cycling distance. Is that good fortune? I dunno. It took about 2 years to make happen, and a little bit of negotiation, but we made it happen. This was all pre-mustache BTW.

mm1970

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Come on I'm an engineer :-p

Ha, so am I!  But I have learned when it comes to jury duty, being a woman overrides being an engineer.  The "anti-engineer" bent doesn't extend to female engineers.

Shylock

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To paraphrase G.K. Chesterton,

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Commuting by bike has not been tried and found wanting; it has been found difficult and not tried.

Are there hurdles to biking? Definitely. But I've found most of those hurdles are in getting started. You figure out a routine, and the difficulties fade away. You figure out solutions. My current work has excellent bike facilities, as it turns out, but lately I don't even use them - I cool off in my cubicle for half an hour, shirtless, and then change into clothes I store at work.

Is it impossible? No.

Is it practical? That all depends on you, your circumstances and your priorities.

People tell me every day that biking in my city is impossible - apparently I manage the impossible twice daily. I personally think most of my commute is pretty damn easy, despite it being 11 miles each way. And when I explain to people my route, they often change their mind and agree it's pretty doable. I wish someone had taken me aside and challenged me to bike to work, so I wouldn't have idiotically drove for four years every day. Part of the problem was I had a slow beach cruiser as my frame of reference.

You could also try combining a folding bike with taking the bus. I take the bus with my full sized bike occasionally, as is convenient.

It's possible that a bike commute won't work in some cases - given some constraints. But those constraints can be changed over time. And even if they can't... for every person who can't bike commute for whatever reason, there are several people who falsely think they can't commute by bike, but actually can. I was one such person too.

grantmeaname

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I cool off in my cubicle for half an hour, shirtless
I don't think this would fly at my job.

Shylock

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I cool off in my cubicle for half an hour, shirtless
I don't think this would fly at my job.

Have you tried?

I'd get into work early, and could obviously still answer emails and phone calls while shirtless, behind my closed door cubicle. This is like 7-7:30 AM, not 9-9:30AM. And then I can leave around 3:30 or 4 PM. For those in college, there's no reason you have to arrive right in time for class - you can get to campus half an hour early and study while cooling off or something.

I also cook at work, using my rice cooker I keep in the break room, and maybe a knife and cutting board. People think I'm fucking Mario Batali or something - really, I don't want to microwave leftovers every day, eat hot pockets or spend $10 on a tiny lunch. Is that so odd? People express amazement at all this.

But really, it's about social license. Do you have the license to do as you please? Do you do what's best for you and not give a fuck if it's "normal?" I'd be uglier, fatter, duller and poorer if I cared. Most people are wary of breaking certain unwritten rules... but the moment you do, you realize no one actually cares, you won't get fired, and you won't lose your friends. And that's what MMM is about - doing what's best for you and your well being, and not simply aping the other homo sapiens.

Sam E

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I guess I would say that we are fortunate - not because we magically ended up with the option to bike commute, but because we had the foresight to choose an employer on a bikeable island, to rent a house within easy biking distance, and to accept a smaller than normal dwelling because we are willing to spend more time outside (for example, at the beach that's 1/4 mile away) instead of cooped up inside all the time. Fortunate indeed.

Life is a combination of choices and fortune, even though I also believe that choices have the larger effect.  You got a job with an employer in a bikeable area, but you didn't create that job right?  The employer's hiring needs were out of your control, just as an example.

Genuine question: do any of you bill by the hour for your jobs? Is it worth it to bike? Biking would take me over an hour each way, which is a lot of billable time to lose during the day.  I think the money I would lose during those hours would outweigh the benefits of biking. I have been thinking about switching to public transportation instead - I can drive to the train station and work on the train, and my employer pays for passes.  Then I'm barely losing billable time that way.

Another question: Do any of you work far away from your partner's work? How did you resolve that?  DH and I work far apart, and that pretty much determined how we structured our lives.  I confident we made the best decision living between them (I even had a post here about it before we moved), but I do miss living near where I worked like I could when I was single!

I don't "bill by the hour" for my job, but I am hourly. Consider this: Would you get paid for time spent traveling by car? Would you end your day early if you traveled by bike? If the answer to both is "No," then biking is not actually cutting into your income at all and is just saving you money. I don't arrive late to work when I bike, I just leave earlier and arrive on time as normal. At the end of the day I leave at the exact same time and just get home later. It saves money on gas, saves wear on my car (less money for maintenance), saves me needing a gym membership or a stationary bike/walk machine at home... and it saves me time because I integrate my exercise into my commute rather than having to load it all at once into the morning or evening ON TOP of commuting.

A lot of people say that an hour-long bike commute "wastes an hour," but the thing is you first need to subtract the car commute time from that because you'd be spending that time anyway. Then you have to realize that extra time on your bike beyond that is not wasted, but rather well spent on healthy exercise. And either you're not getting daily exercise (you should!), or you're already setting aside time in the day before or after work for exercise anyway. Why not take that exercise time, cut it in half, add it to your one-way car commute time, THEN compare it to your one-way bike commute time?

I have a 50-minute bike to work, where it takes 25 minutes to drive. So the first 25 minutes of my bike to work is "commute time" and the next 25 minutes is "exercise time." That's a total of 50 minutes of exercise taken in chunks rather than all at once, and you're supposed to get 30-60 minutes of exercise per day anyway. Now here's the kicker: That "commute time" is actually also exercise time! So I'm actually getting AN HOUR AND FOURTY MINUTES of exercise PER DAY! So that will make me WAY healthier in the long run and save me money on medical bills!

And you know what? I only had to allocate 25 minutes extra in the morning and 25 minutes extra in the evening to accomplish all this. That seems a lot nicer than spending all day at work and then trying to muster up the energy to spend 50 minutes at once exercising on some expensive machine or at some expensive gym (not to mention commute time to the gym in that case!) or even just walking boring circles around the block, don't you agree?

Shylock

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A lot of people say that an hour-long bike commute "wastes an hour," but the thing is you first need to subtract the car commute time from that because you'd be spending that time anyway. Then you have to realize that extra time on your bike beyond that is not wasted, but rather well spent on healthy exercise. And either you're not getting daily exercise (you should!), or you're already setting aside time in the day before or after work for exercise anyway. Why not take that exercise time, cut it in half, add it to your one-way car commute time, THEN compare it to your one-way bike commute time?

You also didn't subtract the car cost time - as in, the time it takes to earn the money that pays for the car.

There's also the quality of time spent. I'd rather spend an hour doing something I like than half an hour of something I don't. My bike ride is what people do on their vacations, my car ride is what people do only when paid to. By biking, I'm getting paid to take vacation!

People ask me how much longer my ride is than driving. It's actually not much longer, thanks to traffic and parking, but that aside... I like biking. Most people do, in the right circumstances. I don't like driving in traffic - also like most people.

music lover

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And you know what? I only had to allocate 25 minutes extra in the morning and 25 minutes extra in the evening to accomplish all this. That seems a lot nicer than spending all day at work and then trying to muster up the energy to spend 50 minutes at once exercising on some expensive machine or at some expensive gym (not to mention commute time to the gym in that case!) or even just walking boring circles around the block, don't you agree?

Comments like that make some ridiculous assumptions.

Your bike commute is magical, life changing, and gives you an Adonis-like body, but if you didn't ride a bike, then your only available option for exercise is to muster up the energy to commute to an expensive gym or to walk circles around the block.

Le Poisson

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A lot of people say that an hour-long bike commute "wastes an hour," but the thing is you first need to subtract the car commute time from that because you'd be spending that time anyway. Then you have to realize that extra time on your bike beyond that is not wasted, but rather well spent on healthy exercise. And either you're not getting daily exercise (you should!), or you're already setting aside time in the day before or after work for exercise anyway. Why not take that exercise time, cut it in half, add it to your one-way car commute time, THEN compare it to your one-way bike commute time?

You also didn't subtract the car cost time - as in, the time it takes to earn the money that pays for the car.

There's also the quality of time spent. I'd rather spend an hour doing something I like than half an hour of something I don't. My bike ride is what people do on their vacations, my car ride is what people do only when paid to. By biking, I'm getting paid to take vacation!

People ask me how much longer my ride is than driving. It's actually not much longer, thanks to traffic and parking, but that aside... I like biking. Most people do, in the right circumstances. I don't like driving in traffic - also like most people.

I only bike 3 days a week. It takes me 10 minutes longer by bike than car, so I 'lose' 20 minutes a day to cycling, or an hour per week. I do have to schedule around meetings and site work, but I have also cycled between meetings before. To listen to my coworkers you'd think I'm nucking futz.

What I find interesting is all the people who act like I've committed a felony on the days when I take the car in. The questions start popping up as I walk to the office and go on all day. It says people take notice of the outlier (cycling). To them I'm the guy who bikes to work - they somehow miss that I still drive 40% of the time.

Le Poisson

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And you know what? I only had to allocate 25 minutes extra in the morning and 25 minutes extra in the evening to accomplish all this. That seems a lot nicer than spending all day at work and then trying to muster up the energy to spend 50 minutes at once exercising on some expensive machine or at some expensive gym (not to mention commute time to the gym in that case!) or even just walking boring circles around the block, don't you agree?

Comments like that make some ridiculous assumptions.

Your bike commute is magical, life changing, and gives you an Adonis-like body, but if you didn't ride a bike, then your only available option for exercise is to muster up the energy to commute to an expensive gym or to walk circles around the block.

Well, there's yardwork too, but yeah, that is what cycling does for me. What was your question? Where do you get your exercise?

Sam E

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And you know what? I only had to allocate 25 minutes extra in the morning and 25 minutes extra in the evening to accomplish all this. That seems a lot nicer than spending all day at work and then trying to muster up the energy to spend 50 minutes at once exercising on some expensive machine or at some expensive gym (not to mention commute time to the gym in that case!) or even just walking boring circles around the block, don't you agree?

Comments like that make some ridiculous assumptions.

Your bike commute is magical, life changing, and gives you an Adonis-like body, but if you didn't ride a bike, then your only available option for exercise is to muster up the energy to commute to an expensive gym or to walk circles around the block.

Whoa, I never said I had a magical Adonis body. But does more exercise make you more healthy? YES! This is a simple fact (yes, there are obviously limits regarding over-exertion). Biking to work gives you more exercise than driving to work. If you bike to a construction job you got more exercise than if you drove to a construction job. If you bike to an office job, then work out at home, you got more exercise than if you drove to work and then worked out at home. Biking rather than driving adds to your exercise, regardless of how much other exercise you get anywhere else in the day.

Most people get exercise at the gym or at home in time set aside specifically for it. Most people don't exercise daily because of this, or in many cases AT ALL. I'll admit this makes some assumptions, but if you don't make some assumptions you can't really make general points about anything at all. This is, however, how my life is and the life of everyone I know (who all have office jobs or other non-physically-taxing jobs). If I don't bike to work, I don't regain that lost exercise in my day. My job requires very little physical labor, I live in an apartment and don't have yardwork, and I have no motivation to set aside time for straight exercise at home or otherwise. I don't even really like biking without a destination... All these things apply to just about everyone I know, except none of them bike at all. So it's not like my points are completely invalid, they DO apply to people, especially those people spending 40+ hours per week in a sedentary job.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2015, 03:36:52 PM by Sam E »

music lover

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And you know what? I only had to allocate 25 minutes extra in the morning and 25 minutes extra in the evening to accomplish all this. That seems a lot nicer than spending all day at work and then trying to muster up the energy to spend 50 minutes at once exercising on some expensive machine or at some expensive gym (not to mention commute time to the gym in that case!) or even just walking boring circles around the block, don't you agree?

Comments like that make some ridiculous assumptions.

Your bike commute is magical, life changing, and gives you an Adonis-like body, but if you didn't ride a bike, then your only available option for exercise is to muster up the energy to commute to an expensive gym or to walk circles around the block.

Whoa, I never said I had a magical Adonis body. But does more exercise make you more healthy? YES! This is a simple fact (yes, there are obviously limits regarding over-exertion). Biking to work gives you more exercise than driving to work. If you bike to a construction job you got more exercise than if you drove to a construction job. If you bike to an office job, then work out at home, you got more exercise than if you drove to work and then worked out at home. Biking rather than driving adds to your exercise, regardless of how much other exercise you get anywhere else in the day.

Most people get exercise at the gym or at home in time set aside specifically for it. Most people don't exercise daily because of this, or in many cases AT ALL. I'll admit this makes some assumptions, but if you don't make some assumptions you can't really make general points about anything at all. This is, however, how my life is and the life of everyone I know (who all have office jobs or other non-physically-taxing jobs). If I don't bike to work, I don't regain that lost exercise in my day. My job requires very little physical labor, I live in an apartment and don't have yardwork, and I have no motivation to set aside time for straight exercise at home or otherwise. I don't even really like biking without a destination... All these things apply to just about everyone I know, except none of them bike at all. So it's not like my points are completely invalid, they DO apply to people, especially those people spending 40+ hours per week in a sedentary job.

I'm not disputing that cycling is exercise, but it's not for everyone, and not everyone can or wants to cycle to work for various reasons. I hate getting to work in a sweat in summer (office work) and in winter it gets to -35. In addition, the only convenient route is on a narrow highway with no sidewalks where people often pass on the shoulder....AND, for 6 months of the year it's dark early in the morning when going to work. It's simply not safe, and no one in their right mind would cycle that road.

The minor cardio gains from an 8 km (5 mile) bike ride are outweighed by the inconveniences. Instead, I run when the weather allows, and use my treadmill in the winter. I also have weights and lift regular.

Le Poisson

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I'm not disputing that cycling is exercise, but it's not for everyone, and not everyone can or wants to cycle to work for various reasons. I hate getting to work in a sweat in summer (office work) and in winter it gets to -35. In addition, the only convenient route is on a narrow highway with no sidewalks where people often pass on the shoulder....AND, for 6 months of the year it's dark early in the morning when going to work. It's simply not safe, and no one in their right mind would cycle that road.

The minor cardio gains from an 8 km (5 mile) bike ride are outweighed by the inconveniences. Instead, I run when the weather allows, and use my treadmill in the winter. I also have weights and lift regular.

Read that back to yourself. Sounds kinda whineypants. Boo Hoo, its hot. Boo Hoo, its cold. Waaah The road is busy. From your comments I assume you are in Canada like me. I know that's bold.

Here's my response...

Too hot? Wear a Technical T-shirt. You can get one for under $10 - even up here in Canada.

Too Cold? Buy a pair of windbreaking, water repellant pants - they have them for around $50 at MEC - http://www.mec.ca/product/5024-812/mec-drencher-pants-mens/?h=10+50002+50020+50089+50106&f=10+50002+50022+50089

Narrow highway with no shoulders - make the cars wait behind you and learn good lane discipline, that failing, find another route, sure its less convenient, but convenient is just another word for expensive. People do bike that road. I mean the waterfront trail - an easy recreational route - goes down Kingston Road in Scarborough. I am also confused with how people can pass on the shoulder of a narrow highway. If there is room to pass on the shoulder, there is room to ride on the shoulder.

Dark early in the morning - Buy a lighting system - yes they are expensive to get a high powered one, but its still cheaper than 5 tanks of gas. http://www.mec.ca/product/5035-015/cygo-lite-tridenx-xtra-1300-osp-led-front-light/?h=50002+50037+10+50513&f=10+50002+50514

Don't like being sweaty at work? Arrive early and cool down before you get to your desk. A 10 minute walk is all it takes.

If you run, then why not run to work?

grantmeaname

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I cool off in my cubicle for half an hour, shirtless
I don't think this would fly at my job.

Have you tried?

I'd get into work early, and could obviously still answer emails and phone calls while shirtless, behind my closed door cubicle. This is like 7-7:30 AM, not 9-9:30AM. And then I can leave around 3:30 or 4 PM. For those in college, there's no reason you have to arrive right in time for class - you can get to campus half an hour early and study while cooling off or something.
My office looks like this:

And there are ten other people there at 7am in my group.

Quote
I also cook at work, using my rice cooker I keep in the break room, and maybe a knife and cutting board. People think I'm fucking Mario Batali or something - really, I don't want to microwave leftovers every day, eat hot pockets or spend $10 on a tiny lunch. Is that so odd? People express amazement at all this.
I dream of this. We're not even allowed a microwave, much less an iced tea maker or a hot pot.

EDIT: that said, I'm all about the outrageous optimism. I agree with your message, I just have to wear a shirt at work.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2015, 07:18:11 PM by grantmeaname »

Mrs. PoP

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Any actual helpful tips for those of us who would like to bike commute, but have heat issues?
I live in Florida and the temperature at 7am when I go catch my bus to work is already in the 80s with 80-90% humidity. By 5pm, if it isn't pouring down rain, the temperatures have been in the 90s with heat indices of 110+. I do not have a shower at work and I work in a business attire work requiring make-up, hair and heels/blazers. I broke a sweat this morning walking the quarter mile to my bus stop
Should I even bother to try?

If you're serious about wanting to give it a try, feel free to PM me for tips.  I'm in FL and am very familiar with the heat and the afternoon storms, but have been bike commuting to my office for the past 2 years now year round.  ~9 miles each way which takes me about 40 minutes (the bus would take at least an hour and a half for my route!) - no shower at the office, but I make do and am not stinky. 

Shylock

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I cool off in my cubicle for half an hour, shirtless
I don't think this would fly at my job.

Have you tried?

I'd get into work early, and could obviously still answer emails and phone calls while shirtless, behind my closed door cubicle. This is like 7-7:30 AM, not 9-9:30AM. And then I can leave around 3:30 or 4 PM. For those in college, there's no reason you have to arrive right in time for class - you can get to campus half an hour early and study while cooling off or something.
My office looks like this:

And there are ten other people there at 7am in my group.

Quote
I also cook at work, using my rice cooker I keep in the break room, and maybe a knife and cutting board. People think I'm fucking Mario Batali or something - really, I don't want to microwave leftovers every day, eat hot pockets or spend $10 on a tiny lunch. Is that so odd? People express amazement at all this.
I dream of this. We're not even allowed a microwave, much less an iced tea maker or a hot pot.

EDIT: that said, I'm all about the outrageous optimism. I agree with your message, I just have to wear a shirt at work.

Fair enough. There are other options, like toweling off in the bathroom, going slow on the last ten minutes of the commute, etc. I don't really have to resort to those though, but they work for others.

My office is more like this:



So I can get away with it. Just saying it's always good to test the limits, because you'll never know what you can get away with if you don't.

Although I'm about to start a new job, not sure how that will go, lol... Will be a week of driving, biking and busing probably initially, before I get myself all situated.


darkadams00

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Honesty is still the best policy. If a person doesn't want to bike to work, or bike anywhere for that matter, then they should just be willing to say, "I don't care to ride a bike." Reasons are not necessary. As soon as reasons are offered, then people will disagree with those reasons, the legitimacy of those reasons, or the shortcomings of those reasons. I choose to ride because it works for me. It is cheaper. It does satisfy > 50% of my weekly exercise. It usually does not save me time. I actually enjoy more extreme conditions--heat, cold, rain--sometimes, just not all the time. As an office worker, it gives me a chance to to weekly push myself, a task that I think any self-respecting, healthy guy should want to do. I do long-distance hiking for some of the same reasons, but I don't hike weekly. Utility cycling regularly is just one choice I make that makes me feel good and enjoy life.

Others choose other pursuits--running, climbing, swimming, diving, lifting, etc. To each his own. I don't offer 12 reasons why I don't do X regularly. I just don't do it because it doesn't mesh with my personality, my goals, my psyche, whatever. More important than the flaws that I might see in someone's reasoning is just the fact that I really shouldn't even care unless they are asking for advice on handling their difficulties in a given pursuit.

music lover

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Read that back to yourself. Sounds kinda whineypants. Boo Hoo, its hot. Boo Hoo, its cold. Waaah The road is busy. From your comments I assume you are in Canada like me. I know that's bold.

Here's my response...

Too hot? Wear a Technical T-shirt. You can get one for under $10 - even up here in Canada.

Too Cold? Buy a pair of windbreaking, water repellant pants - they have them for around $50 at MEC - http://www.mec.ca/product/5024-812/mec-drencher-pants-mens/?h=10+50002+50020+50089+50106&f=10+50002+50022+50089

Narrow highway with no shoulders - make the cars wait behind you and learn good lane discipline, that failing, find another route, sure its less convenient, but convenient is just another word for expensive. People do bike that road. I mean the waterfront trail - an easy recreational route - goes down Kingston Road in Scarborough. I am also confused with how people can pass on the shoulder of a narrow highway. If there is room to pass on the shoulder, there is room to ride on the shoulder.

Dark early in the morning - Buy a lighting system - yes they are expensive to get a high powered one, but its still cheaper than 5 tanks of gas. http://www.mec.ca/product/5035-015/cygo-lite-tridenx-xtra-1300-osp-led-front-light/?h=50002+50037+10+50513&f=10+50002+50514

Don't like being sweaty at work? Arrive early and cool down before you get to your desk. A 10 minute walk is all it takes.

If you run, then why not run to work?

It's not safe to ride a bike on an 80kph (50mph) highway and force cars to keep pace behind. What fantasy world do you live in where that happens?? People pass on the shoulder because they are jerks, or they go on the shoulder early before the turning lane. If I am riding on that shoulder, then I am at risk of being hit by someone who is not paying attention.

It's a 15k round trip or 75k (46 miles) a week...that's way too much running for me as I only run 5k 2 - 3 times a week. I get ITB and plantar fasciitis when I exceed 30k a week or run on back to back days.

Anyway...I'm already FI, and am only working one more year to avoid a penalty on my pension. I still need my car for other things, so the $2 a day saved by biking to work will have no effect on my retirement date or savings.

For those who like bike commuting, have at 'er. I'll continue to take my car and enjoy the comfort and time saved.

LouLou

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I don't "bill by the hour" for my job, but I am hourly. Consider this: Would you get paid for time spent traveling by car? Would you end your day early if you traveled by bike? If the answer to both is "No," then biking is not actually cutting into your income at all and is just saving you money. I don't arrive late to work when I bike, I just leave earlier and arrive on time as normal. At the end of the day I leave at the exact same time and just get home later. It saves money on gas, saves wear on my car (less money for maintenance), saves me needing a gym membership or a stationary bike/walk machine at home... and it saves me time because I integrate my exercise into my commute rather than having to load it all at once into the morning or evening ON TOP of commuting.

Billing by the hour and working hourly are different - that's why I'm asking. I can bill anywhere. I can bill while on the train, while I can't do that on a bike.  I would absolutely leave work earlier if I biked.  Unfortunately, my city has a crime problem. A woman was attacked in our parking garage recently, and I saw two people get shot and die outside my building.  People will absolutely push a small woman off a bike to steal it at night.  If I get out of the city before sundown, I'm good though.

This also doesn't account for my third option - public transportation.  The more I think about it, public transportation is far more cost-effective for me than biking.

For me:
- Driving to work - 15 mins each way - 30 minutes commuting, no billing
- Biking to work - 55 mins each way - 110 minutes commuting, no billing (Benefits - exercise. Negatives - need to by a bike, helmet, and biking clothes)
- Driving to train, then train to work - 7 minutes driving, 30 minutes on train where I can bill, 5 minutes walking - 84 minutes commuting, including 60 minutes of billing (Benefit - work will pay for a monthly pass. Negative - less exercise than biking)

The biking option is definitely the worst for my situation.   Honestly, building a life to be walkable seems a lot more frugal than a bikeable life.  I lived a walkable life when life circumstances allowed for it and it was my ideal. I would use public transportation when I needed to get to another part of town.  No additional purchases necessary.  And I love walking. I walked for three hours today for fun.

Well, I've just convinced myself to drive to the train, and not buy a bike. Thanks, sort of.

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I don't "bill by the hour" for my job, but I am hourly. Consider this: Would you get paid for time spent traveling by car? Would you end your day early if you traveled by bike? If the answer to both is "No," then biking is not actually cutting into your income at all and is just saving you money. I don't arrive late to work when I bike, I just leave earlier and arrive on time as normal. At the end of the day I leave at the exact same time and just get home later. It saves money on gas, saves wear on my car (less money for maintenance), saves me needing a gym membership or a stationary bike/walk machine at home... and it saves me time because I integrate my exercise into my commute rather than having to load it all at once into the morning or evening ON TOP of commuting.

Billing by the hour and working hourly are different - that's why I'm asking. I can bill anywhere. I can bill while on the train, while I can't do that on a bike.  I would absolutely leave work earlier if I biked.  Unfortunately, my city has a crime problem. A woman was attacked in our parking garage recently, and I saw two people get shot and die outside my building.  People will absolutely push a small woman off a bike to steal it at night.  If I get out of the city before sundown, I'm good though.

This also doesn't account for my third option - public transportation.  The more I think about it, public transportation is far more cost-effective for me than biking.

For me:
- Driving to work - 15 mins each way - 30 minutes commuting, no billing
- Biking to work - 55 mins each way - 110 minutes commuting, no billing (Benefits - exercise. Negatives - need to by a bike, helmet, and biking clothes)
- Driving to train, then train to work - 7 minutes driving, 30 minutes on train where I can bill, 5 minutes walking - 84 minutes commuting, including 60 minutes of billing (Benefit - work will pay for a monthly pass. Negative - less exercise than biking)

The biking option is definitely the worst for my situation.   Honestly, building a life to be walkable seems a lot more frugal than a bikeable life.  I lived a walkable life when life circumstances allowed for it and it was my ideal. I would use public transportation when I needed to get to another part of town.  No additional purchases necessary.  And I love walking. I walked for three hours today for fun.

Well, I've just convinced myself to drive to the train, and not buy a bike. Thanks, sort of.

I have a possibility of a job in Greenwich, CT which is an extremely HCOL area and to get anywhere remotely affordable near there like Stamford/Norwalk or more to the NYC side it's a minimum 15 mile commute. However that area does seem to have good public transit from my research and I'm seriously considering that option as well. It's about $30/month for the train.

GuitarStv

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I don't "bill by the hour" for my job, but I am hourly. Consider this: Would you get paid for time spent traveling by car? Would you end your day early if you traveled by bike? If the answer to both is "No," then biking is not actually cutting into your income at all and is just saving you money. I don't arrive late to work when I bike, I just leave earlier and arrive on time as normal. At the end of the day I leave at the exact same time and just get home later. It saves money on gas, saves wear on my car (less money for maintenance), saves me needing a gym membership or a stationary bike/walk machine at home... and it saves me time because I integrate my exercise into my commute rather than having to load it all at once into the morning or evening ON TOP of commuting.

Billing by the hour and working hourly are different - that's why I'm asking. I can bill anywhere. I can bill while on the train, while I can't do that on a bike.  I would absolutely leave work earlier if I biked.  Unfortunately, my city has a crime problem. A woman was attacked in our parking garage recently, and I saw two people get shot and die outside my building.  People will absolutely push a small woman off a bike to steal it at night.  If I get out of the city before sundown, I'm good though.

This also doesn't account for my third option - public transportation.  The more I think about it, public transportation is far more cost-effective for me than biking.

For me:
- Driving to work - 15 mins each way - 30 minutes commuting, no billing
- Biking to work - 55 mins each way - 110 minutes commuting, no billing (Benefits - exercise. Negatives - need to by a bike, helmet, and biking clothes)
- Driving to train, then train to work - 7 minutes driving, 30 minutes on train where I can bill, 5 minutes walking - 84 minutes commuting, including 60 minutes of billing (Benefit - work will pay for a monthly pass. Negative - less exercise than biking)

The biking option is definitely the worst for my situation.   Honestly, building a life to be walkable seems a lot more frugal than a bikeable life.  I lived a walkable life when life circumstances allowed for it and it was my ideal. I would use public transportation when I needed to get to another part of town.  No additional purchases necessary.  And I love walking. I walked for three hours today for fun.

Well, I've just convinced myself to drive to the train, and not buy a bike. Thanks, sort of.

- Bike to train (7 minutes driving has to include at least a couple minutes parking . . . how far do you really get in 5 minutes of driving?) 15-20 minutes, bill on the train, 5 minutes walk.  You'll be going a short enough distance that you don't need fancy bike clothing, or even a particularly fancy bike.

You get reduced time over biking the whole way, can bill time on the train, get the added exercise, and can give up your car for some pretty huge cash savings.  It's the best of all worlds!

infogoon

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I can think of 3 coworkers whose homes I literally ride past on my way to work. They all have reasons they can't ride in. Call me lucky that I can do it with a kid in a bike trailer and another riding on his own.

You make your own fortune in many ways.

I have a coworker who lives about midway between my house and the office; I actually ride past his apartment a couple times a week, depending on the route I choose that morning. Regardless, he still drives in every morning in some enormous truck.

This weekend I happened to run into him. We were riding in the same charity bike ride.

cerebus

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Mind you, $30/month is $3600 over 10 years not counting interest, plus me being much less fitter as a result. Bike wins. Anyway it's still theoretical.

mm1970

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Read that back to yourself. Sounds kinda whineypants. Boo Hoo, its hot. Boo Hoo, its cold. Waaah The road is busy. From your comments I assume you are in Canada like me. I know that's bold.

Here's my response...

Too hot? Wear a Technical T-shirt. You can get one for under $10 - even up here in Canada.

Too Cold? Buy a pair of windbreaking, water repellant pants - they have them for around $50 at MEC - http://www.mec.ca/product/5024-812/mec-drencher-pants-mens/?h=10+50002+50020+50089+50106&f=10+50002+50022+50089

Narrow highway with no shoulders - make the cars wait behind you and learn good lane discipline, that failing, find another route, sure its less convenient, but convenient is just another word for expensive. People do bike that road. I mean the waterfront trail - an easy recreational route - goes down Kingston Road in Scarborough. I am also confused with how people can pass on the shoulder of a narrow highway. If there is room to pass on the shoulder, there is room to ride on the shoulder.

Dark early in the morning - Buy a lighting system - yes they are expensive to get a high powered one, but its still cheaper than 5 tanks of gas. http://www.mec.ca/product/5035-015/cygo-lite-tridenx-xtra-1300-osp-led-front-light/?h=50002+50037+10+50513&f=10+50002+50514

Don't like being sweaty at work? Arrive early and cool down before you get to your desk. A 10 minute walk is all it takes.

If you run, then why not run to work?

It's not safe to ride a bike on an 80kph (50mph) highway and force cars to keep pace behind. What fantasy world do you live in where that happens?? People pass on the shoulder because they are jerks, or they go on the shoulder early before the turning lane. If I am riding on that shoulder, then I am at risk of being hit by someone who is not paying attention.

It's a 15k round trip or 75k (46 miles) a week...that's way too much running for me as I only run 5k 2 - 3 times a week. I get ITB and plantar fasciitis when I exceed 30k a week or run on back to back days.

Anyway...I'm already FI, and am only working one more year to avoid a penalty on my pension. I still need my car for other things, so the $2 a day saved by biking to work will have no effect on my retirement date or savings.

For those who like bike commuting, have at 'er. I'll continue to take my car and enjoy the comfort and time saved.

For sure - there are places it's safe, and places it's not safe.

I can think of several places that I've lived that aren't safe - fast roads, in the dark, nobody bikes - I mean, the locals coming up behind you at 50 mph and 55 mph on the windy, hilly roads simply are not expecting you.  (And in some areas that I've lived, would outright try to hit you because you "don't belong there").  These tend to be more rural places.

In the small cities, it's better - with bike paths, or at least bike lanes, and traffic signals and such. Still, people drive fast and distracted here and often get hit/ hurt/ killed.

In the rural area that I grew up, knowing where my sister lives and works, for example, there simply is not a single way to get from point A to point B safely, on a bike.  Maybe some day - this area has been *very* resistant to the "rails to trails" movement (stay off my lawn you dirty hippies!), but there are a few sections that exist now (though locals often destroy them, or knock down trees across them, etc.)  Maybe in another 20 years there will be a full trail.

GuitarStv

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Too Cold? Buy a pair of windbreaking, water repellant pants - they have them for around $50 at MEC - http://www.mec.ca/product/5024-812/mec-drencher-pants-mens/?h=10+50002+50020+50089+50106&f=10+50002+50022+50089

Hmmm . . . I'm not sure that I'd be interested in owning pants that break wind, regardless of their waterproofness.

AlanStache

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This thread has brought into focus some of the less than positive thoughts about the MMM.com world I have been having lately.  To often what is written comes off as "I have done XYZ so therefore there is no reason you cant or should not have already also done XYZ despite any limiting factors". 

There is a balance between helping people to see outside of there comfort zones and being an ass.  I know that a lot artistic appeal of MMM and the forum is the face punching but sometimes it can come off wrong or as putting people down rather than helping them to see new options. 

Trivializing the large changes it would take for many people to get from there current position in life to one where bike commuting were a viable option does not come off well.  Many people would have to sell there home and change jobs if not move to a new city.  The gap between "sell your home, move to a new city and get a new job" vs "bike commuting it not possible" does not let much light through.  All to often it seems we make statements here that reduce to "we all were born of woman therefore all had equal opportunity in life."  This position is idiotic.

If you structured your life so that you can and do bike commute, congratulations you are a rock star-fucking Aerosmith crossed with Nirvana; but please remember not only does everyone not get to be an astronaut, many could not have even applied.  The costs some people would had to have paid to bike commute were simply to large. 

This is my one little problem with some people on MMM.  I understand that engineers are often people who see things in black and white.  It's why a lot of lawyers HATE to have them on juries.  But in reality, a lot of changes simply aren't time-effective or cost-effective.  Doesn't mean you don't try (hey, I've been job hunting), but times change.
Come on I'm an engineer :-p

Re heat issues:  Dont fuck with the heat, know you limits and stay within them.  I had to be wheeled into the back of an ambulance after a bad overheat/dehydration episode.  Screwed my body up long term and could have easily caused brain damage.  The effects lasted years.

Learning how to ride your bike to work hasn't been easy for me, but it was well worth it.  If you look at national statistics less than 3% of people ride their bike to work.  I doubt that 97% have a true constraint that would make biking to work impossible.  It's sad that most of our cities, suburbs, and rural areas were designed with car transportation in mind and only lately have bike lanes become cool in some cities.  But there are definite opportunities for improvement if only 1 in 33 people are riding their bike to work.  If you are on this message board you like the writing of someone who has written something like 5-10 articles involving his love of biking, and about how most people should consider this option, and it's definitely not as hard as being an astronaut.  I would argue that commuting by car is more dangerous and difficult given the traffic of where I live.

I agree with not messing with heat / dehydration issues.  But riding a bike is not a particularly taxing activity, as long as you have the right bike, drink plenty of water all day long, ride slow on hot days, find shaded routes, and wear the right clothes.  It takes more planning but it can be done.  It may be hard at first as it was for me (mostly from dealing with flat tire issues) but I kept at it and my level of fitness improved over time.  I also learned how to maintain my bike and how to avoid the most scary roads with alternate routes through extensive google maps searches.

If you think I'm being an ass by stating my opinion and aren't inspired by this post, I understand.

No I dont think you are being an ass.  A lot of my gripe comes with those who let unrestrained optimism override rational fact based statements, or assume they know more about an individuals situation than that individual. 

Maybe we need to split the "I cant commute by bike" people into to two or more categories
1) those that cant because: Physical distance, family obligations, health problems, unrideable roads etc
2) those that cant because: Dont have a bike, would have to recomb hair etc.  I have no problem with a "Dude really?" directed at this group. 

During college I did commute by bike to my summer job, 20 miles each way on a low end road bike; at other times I was a bike messenger, at a different time I took light rail from home then rode up 1000 vertical feet to the office (where there was a shower) - I love riding.  The world would be a better place if everyone road to work (pre-FIRE :-) )  I just think that for a large number of people changing to bike (or walk) commute would be very impractical.  I dont know how you arrived to work/live in DC but from my 5-6 trips up there it seems to be a bikeable city; given the cost of parking and traffic I could easily see biking being cheaper and not taking much more time.  As you said large parts of the country are not bike friendly. 

I am very much not opposed to bike commuting its just when someone say there is only one road to work and it is not ride-able and people jump on them as not thinking outside the box it gets under my skin; like a bunch of people on the interwebs know how rideable Jones St is a 7am from across the country or if we John could sit at his desk with nothing but tighty-whities on (/sarcasm).

I have in past looked at bike commuting, there would be only a small cost savings at best.  To ride in I would need a bus pass to get across a bridge, the bus pass would about cancel the gas savings.  At best it would take more than twice as long.  The roads have minimal shoulder and are unlit.  I am looking at moving closer to work where a bridge crossing may not be required but the schools near work are shit (not below average - shit) so I can see why someone with kids would not make the move.  As it is the move will cause family complications.

Riding to work is more complicated than "I ride 20 miles each way 5 days/wk, you should be able to also".

EricP

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For me it is definitely not an option.  I'm in the Air Force and my base is out in the sticks.  It's a 10+ mile drive from the edge of town, and any houses are another few miles from there, and I'd probably need to go a few more miles to get something that is biking distance of a grocery store.

Now, I could live on base, but I'd be passing on BAH, so I would be paying a whole lot of money for the privilege of riding to work, and then my wife would have to drive the other way to work.  Not to mention living on base would suck because it doesn't even have a commissary.  So, for me biking is out of the question as driving is much more cost effective.

Le Poisson

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Maybe we need to split the "I cant commute by bike" people into to two or more categories
1) those that cant because: Physical distance, family obligations, health problems, unrideable roads etc
2) those that cant because: Dont have a bike, would have to recomb hair etc.  I have no problem with a "Dude really?" directed at this group. 

Riding to work is more complicated than "I ride 20 miles each way 5 days/wk, you should be able to also".

Serious answer - If you are in group 1, then IMO, you should be doing all that you can to get into group 2 if you are a Mustachian (with the obvious exception of health issues). Once you are in group 2, you can overcome the rest of the stuff easily. I don't think this is unbounded optimism.

When we lived great distances from work and had hour-long commutes, my wife and I carpooled, and would ride my bike the last few km into the office. We realized how much the commute was costing us in terms of both lifestyle and money, and sold the house and switched jobs. Now I realize that there are some very specialized folks on this board, and maybe there is only one office where they work on supergaflration of gumbunkle frubgupulators in the USA, but for the most part, we can all find a different employer in our field where COL is offset by commuting savings, so the great distances argument really doesn't hold up in my eyes. Save until you can afford a home in an area where the employers need you, and you can afford to live.

Family obligations I read as childcare. Again, the mustachian ethos says that once you buy that house, you live within cycling distance of childcare. My commute includes a pair of munchkins. Every morning I have one in a trailer and one riding his bike. It took some careful planning to find a daycare close to work and on a road they could ride safely, but we found one and we found a way to make it work. My bike commute takes about a half hour each day and includes a stop at the elementary school as well as at the daycare. Its not convenient, but convenient is expensive.

If family obligations means you need to be close to a nursing home or on call for when a disabled child needs you, my heart, and my sympathy go out to you - you need your car at the ready, and I understand.

Health reasons - of course, cars are the only way for people with some disabilities, but even then, some folks I know who ride bikes are missing hands or legs. It can be done. I have mild asthma and a very minor heart thing (mitral valve prolapse) neither are serious, but my wife knows and I don't let them get in the way of living life - which for me includes biking to work. I also know people who won't ride because they are overweight and they get out of breath - to me that isn't a health problem, that's a good reason to ride.

Unrideable roads is scary, but as others have pointed out, it can be overcome, and every day I see people riding on all sorts of facilities. Today (I drove today) I saw a guy in a full suit riding a folding bike on a 2-lane 80 km/h road. His jacket and tie were streaming out behind him, and he had a messenger bag swinging from his back. Was he living on the edge? according to some here that is foolhardy, but he was fine. We have a very exaggerated estimate of how dangerous life is. Cycling isn't such a deadly thing as you would think - you just have to remember the rules of the road and stick to them - even on those busy roads. If the roads are too scary, then find a trail or alternate route - they always exist. And yes, I mean always. Your alternate may be a block or two on a bus or on an inconvenient route, but again, convenient is often another word for expensive.

When I was a kid I had an album called 'Give me convenience or Give me death.' I am consistently impressed by how closely to that mantra we live. An easy life of excess is so much more appealing to us than an inconvenient life of wealth.

mm1970

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Quote
Unrideable roads is scary, but as others have pointed out, it can be overcome, and every day I see people riding on all sorts of facilities. Today (I drove today) I saw a guy in a full suit riding a folding bike on a 2-lane 80 km/h road. His jacket and tie were streaming out behind him, and he had a messenger bag swinging from his back. Was he living on the edge? according to some here that is foolhardy, but he was fine. We have a very exaggerated estimate of how dangerous life is. Cycling isn't such a deadly thing as you would think - you just have to remember the rules of the road and stick to them - even on those busy roads. If the roads are too scary, then find a trail or alternate route - they always exist. And yes, I mean always. Your alternate may be a block or two on a bus or on an inconvenient route, but again, convenient is often another word for expensive.

And yesterday, as I was (driving) home at 6 pm on my street - a hilly, winding street. One lane in each direction, residential, double yellow, 25 mph zone with speed bumps (because of the school nearby) - what did I experience.

A woman in a Mini Cooper, who apparently thought that 27 mph in a 25 mph zone was not fast enough, so she proceeded to pass me on the left (double yellow, no visibility!!)  I freaked out on her and followed her blaring my horn.  She either (1) thinks I'm nuts or (2) will think twice about passing on a double yellow.

The thing is, it's not the first time I've witnessed this - always during a commute (morning or evening).  Last year a teenager was struck crossing a street because someone was impatient and passed on the left and hit him.  My child walks to school and crosses that street.  The neighbors kids walk their dogs, ride their bikes or skateboards up and down that street.  And all so that you could get home 30 seconds faster?  Seriously she was less than 10 houses from home.  I'm still pissed and I'm not sure if I want to knock on her door, leave her a note, or what (and she's 70 years old - she should know better!!)

So when will I let my kids walk to school or bike on that street by themselves?  Never.
There is no alternate, it's the street I live on.  I just didn't realize that we have a few a*holes in the neighborhood.

Baron235

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Quote
Unrideable roads is scary, but as others have pointed out, it can be overcome, and every day I see people riding on all sorts of facilities. Today (I drove today) I saw a guy in a full suit riding a folding bike on a 2-lane 80 km/h road. His jacket and tie were streaming out behind him, and he had a messenger bag swinging from his back. Was he living on the edge? according to some here that is foolhardy, but he was fine. We have a very exaggerated estimate of how dangerous life is. Cycling isn't such a deadly thing as you would think - you just have to remember the rules of the road and stick to them - even on those busy roads. If the roads are too scary, then find a trail or alternate route - they always exist. And yes, I mean always. Your alternate may be a block or two on a bus or on an inconvenient route, but again, convenient is often another word for expensive.

And yesterday, as I was (driving) home at 6 pm on my street - a hilly, winding street. One lane in each direction, residential, double yellow, 25 mph zone with speed bumps (because of the school nearby) - what did I experience.

A woman in a Mini Cooper, who apparently thought that 27 mph in a 25 mph zone was not fast enough, so she proceeded to pass me on the left (double yellow, no visibility!!)  I freaked out on her and followed her blaring my horn.  She either (1) thinks I'm nuts or (2) will think twice about passing on a double yellow.

The thing is, it's not the first time I've witnessed this - always during a commute (morning or evening).  Last year a teenager was struck crossing a street because someone was impatient and passed on the left and hit him.  My child walks to school and crosses that street.  The neighbors kids walk their dogs, ride their bikes or skateboards up and down that street.  And all so that you could get home 30 seconds faster?  Seriously she was less than 10 houses from home.  I'm still pissed and I'm not sure if I want to knock on her door, leave her a note, or what (and she's 70 years old - she should know better!!)

So when will I let my kids walk to school or bike on that street by themselves?  Never.
There is no alternate, it's the street I live on.  I just didn't realize that we have a few a*holes in the neighborhood.


I agree that  I wouldn't let my kids walk, but going back to the OP, it has nothing to do with fortune.  It has everything to do with you wanting to live on that street. 

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!