The Money Mustache Community
Around the Internet => Antimustachian Wall of Shame and Comedy => Topic started by: Melisande on July 29, 2016, 09:57:40 AM
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Yesterday, when I was having tea with a friend (spent only $1.92 instead of $7+ for lunch, BTW) she suggested we do some clothes shopping together next week. Apparently, there are some nice sales at the beginning of August. I didn't know because I mostly shop for my clothes - when I need them -- in second hand stores, T.J. Maxx or Target. I hemmed and hawed and said that I'd look around with her, but that I didn't really want to buy anything for myself -- the trip would be for her. Long story short, I told her I typically shop at second hand stores. My friend (who is retired, not in financial trouble, but on the other hand also not wealthy enough to permit any significant travel) made a face and said: "I'm worth more than that!" I explained to her that I had bought the gorgeous dress I had worn to a fancy event we had both attended a few months ago (and which she and others had raved about) at a second hand shop for $5. But she was not convinced.
We eventually changed the subject, but I was left perplexed at the exchange. Why would someone ever think that their worth as a person was somehow connected not just to how nice the clothes one wore were, but exactly where one had bought them. It was even more perplexing to me, given that this friend is very liberal, an activist, an artsy-crafty type, loves to dress very casually -- i.e. -- not one to adorn themselves with branded clothing for appearances sake. Really how can someone think this?
I suspect that this thought is some kind of meme that entered society through some kind of advertising campaign and has been uncritically accepted by some (including my friend). Does anyone know the history of this kind of thinking?
Well, after some introspection, I realized that I do think this way about spending but only spending on one kind of thing: health care and many things health related (but even here, it's hardly anything goes). We also indulge in travel, but the thinking is not because we are "worth it," but because it's just something that's pleases us, extends our experience and enriches our lives.
Thoughts?
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I buy myself a lot of VTSAX... because I'm worth it.
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The logic seems to go "Thrift stores are where poor people shop. I'm not poor. Wealth and standard of living are directly tied to self esteem (real or imagined), therefore I will not shop in a place where I might feel poor."
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I think its a way to justify poor choices w/o having to think about it.
Its a problem too many people in the US have...spending thoughtlessly because we've 'earned' it.
I'm not worth anything I guess, but I still do waste some money. Everyday, I try to get a little better at wasting less.
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"Because I'm worth it" was a major L'Oreal campaign in the early 70s, big enough that it was the first thing that popped into my head when I saw the thread topic, and I had very limited media exposure, then and now. Is your friend old enough to remember that ad campaign?
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"Because I'm worth it" was a major L'Oreal campaign in the early 70s, big enough that it was the first thing that popped into my head when I saw the thread topic, and I had very limited media exposure, then and now. Is your friend old enough to remember that ad campaign?
Yup, the L'Oreal slogan has evolved in the years since then, first to, "Because you're worth it," then to, "Because we're worth it." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6DHRFuCEwA
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"Because I'm worth it" was a major L'Oreal campaign in the early 70s, big enough that it was the first thing that popped into my head when I saw the thread topic, and I had very limited media exposure, then and now. Is your friend old enough to remember that ad campaign?
+1 I was just thinking about where I heard "because I'm worth it" first and I am pretty sure it was from a L'Oreal ad.
Sad, isn't it, to justify wasting money with an advertising slogan. :(
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How about suggesting the next shopping trip at a secondhand store, so you can show her what great deals are to be found? In our city we have secondhand shops that only carry brand names, great deals there and no stigma of "I'm too wealthy to shop there". It's interesting you noted that too, I have a friend who asked me if she was allowed to shop at Goodwill (like there was a poor person membership card).
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Yeah, I looked the phrase up on-line and saw articles about the L'Oreal campaign back in the 70s. Yes, she is old enough to have heard it, but I think the linking of self-worth to spending has totally seeped into our culture by now. I suppose I'm not really sure if my friend actually thinks this or whether she just like to shop in traditional department stores and is finding some way to rationalize what she wants to do anyway.
She knows all about second hand stores, so it's not like she's ignorant. She just shudders at the thought of going there. The only real problem I see with second hand stores is the unlikely, but pretty uncomfortable situation where you buy something that was unique, say -- something that someone in your circle had bought it in a foreign country a long time ago and just donated it to the store -- then you come along and snatch it up, and wear it some place where it is recognized. Even then, I'd just laugh it off. But this actually happened to me when I was about 13 (a rich class mate insisted in front of everyone else that I was wearing her old blouse) and I was mortified.
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Status. You trade everything for it, but you can't get a refund..
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"Because I'm worth it" was a major L'Oreal campaign in the early 70s, big enough that it was the first thing that popped into my head when I saw the thread topic, and I had very limited media exposure, then and now. Is your friend old enough to remember that ad campaign?
+1 I was just thinking about where I heard "because I'm worth it" first and I am pretty sure it was from a L'Oreal ad.
Sad, isn't it, to justify wasting money with an advertising slogan. :(
Not quite related to the OP, but with this brief talk of cosmetic ads I thought about this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zopXzOERACg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zopXzOERACg)
Ads do a good job telling us what we should and shouldn't have, and give us false expectations of what happens when we buy their products. I have no idea if Clinique is inherently better than what you could buy at Walmart, but I'll bet there are some similarities to the stigma of buying at Goodwill vs A&F.
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It's interesting you noted that too, I have a friend who asked me if she was allowed to shop at Goodwill (like there was a poor person membership card).
To give her a little credit, I can at least understand how someone who's unfamiliar with Goodwill might think it's like a food bank or something, like she felt she shouldn't be taking the low/no-cost items away from people who are truly in need of the financial help.
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It's sad, isn't it? The perverse thing is that so many luxury goods are held in esteem as luxury goods mostly because of their price tag and a well-spun story about their origins . . . not so much because of their intrinsic value.
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The other day at dinner my teenage nephew was ridiculing my sister for her (brand new) Keds, calling them "poor people shoes." He asked her why she didn't at least get some Converse, and she replied that she didn't feel like spending over $40 for a pair of sneakers. I told them both I got my (new looking) Converse sneakers at Savers for $2. Nobody had a response, but I hope it was food for thought...
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I find with a lot of women that if you compliment them at all about their clothes they will launch into a whole story about how they found "This old thing at (expensive store X)" thereby demonstrating (A) how well off they must be to shop there in the first place and (B) how well off they must be if shopping there is no big deal at all to them or their pocketbook.
If she shopped at thrift stores she wouldn't be able to build up her ego with pathetic tales of shopping excess.
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lol, i seem to manage to do fine boosting my ego by boasting about thrift store finds. I even tell people how i bought my wedding dress for 38$ on Etsy and sold it for a profit afterwards on Ebay. heheh :) it was a lovely dress.
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Way to go dandypandys! Yeah that's the kind of clothes bragging I do too...about my thrift store scores.
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I find with a lot of women that if you compliment them at all about their clothes they will launch into a whole story about how they found "This old thing at (expensive store X)" thereby demonstrating (A) how well off they must be to shop there in the first place and (B) how well off they must be if shopping there is no big deal at all to them or their pocketbook.
If she shopped at thrift stores she wouldn't be able to build up her ego with pathetic tales of shopping excess.
Personally, I think it is wonderful that the kind of person who thinks this way makes it so easy for the rest of us to recognize them.
That way, I quickly know I don't really want to invest my valuable time cultivating a lasting friendship with them.
I think it's a crying shame that people think this way, though.
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I buy myself a lot of VTSAX... because I'm worth it.
Lol! That's funny. That's kind of similar to what I say when coworkers ask what I would do if I won a lottery (which I don't even play, but most of my coworkers do).
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I have a friend who asked me if she was allowed to shop at Goodwill (like there was a poor person membership card).
Yes I have had people criticise me for buying at second hand stores as I can afford it and I am taking opportunities away from people that can't. Well actually these are businesses often raising money for charity and in my city not many people are buying. So I think it is win win. I get some clothes, the charity gets money. But I can imagine if you were in a place with lots of competition for cheap goods I might feel guilty. Here people dump everything. I am also the beneficiary of friends who turn their wardrobes over every 6 months.
Funny conversation with colleagues about new cut price store Aldi in town.
Me 'have you been?'
She ' oh no, I went there but did you see the people? and there was a horrible smell'.
Hmmm I think they were just normal people
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I think I've told this story before on some other thread, but...
About 15 years ago, a not particularly well off family member and his wife welcome their new baby. I tell them that in my upscale neighborhood yard sales I have seen oodles of practically brand new baby clothes, most were "designer" like Oshkosh, Gap, etc., and that for $20 I can buy all the clothes the baby will need for years. Family member says, "No child of mine will wear secondhand clothes." Um, ok. People are so strange and shortsighted.
My DH gets amazing work shirts at Goodwill.
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Funny conversation with colleagues about new cut price store Aldi in town.
Me 'have you been?'
She ' oh no, I went there but did you see the people? and there was a horrible smell'.
Hmmm I think they were just normal people
Hmm, I shop as much as I can there and never recall any particular smells. They have excellent prices on spices and many more things. Even if it didn't smell all that well, I'd still shop there.
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I remember once in grad school telling a fellow student about my awesome find at the thrift store: a complete set of dinnerware. She wrinkled up her nose in disgust and said, "EW!!! You're going to eat your food off of dishes somebody ELSE has eaten off of???"
Um, what do you think happens when you go to a restaurant? They break out a new set of dishes for each customer?
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I remember once in grad school telling a fellow student about my awesome find at the thrift store: a complete set of dinnerware. She wrinkled up her nose in disgust and said, "EW!!! You're going to eat your food off of dishes somebody ELSE has eaten off of???"
Um, what do you think happens when you go to a restaurant? They break out a new set of dishes for each customer?
Years ago, I got into an argument with someone online about living alone. The topic came up about the fact that when I graduated college and moved away, I lived in a room in a house, and used a mattress / box spring left by the prior renter. I stored my clothing on shelves. I didn't really have money for a bed, new mattress, or a dresser.
The responses were "you obviously COULD NOT AFFORD TO MOVE AWAY FROM HOME, and had NO BUSINESS doing so if you cannot afford all new furniture" (yeah, um, tell the Navy that. "Sorry I can't go to my new duty station because I can't afford furniture.")
And "Eww. Someone else's mattress?" Did you not ever sleep in a hotel bed?
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Funny conversation with colleagues about new cut price store Aldi in town.
Me 'have you been?'
She ' oh no, I went there but did you see the people? and there was a horrible smell'.
Hmmm I think they were just normal people
Hmm, I shop as much as I can there and never recall any particular smells. They have excellent prices on spices and many more things. Even if it didn't smell all that well, I'd still shop there.
The Goodwill near me has a bit of a smell, especially right now, but that's cause everyone in there is sweaty - it doesn't matter how cold the air conditioning is, you'll break into a sweat just going from your car to the door. Regular retail stores dump a lot of money into their air conditioning systems which also flushes out the "smelly" air but they're incredibly wasteful and going from one temperature extreme to the other can be disconcerting (for me anyway - I shouldn't feel the need to wear a jacket indoors in July!)
My mom has said in the past that I/we "deserve" to have house cleaners come once or twice a month and have a lawn service. I think she has a vision of us slaving away every hour of the day, either at our jobs or on chores, but the way I think of it, I "deserve" to retire sooner! If that means doing our own cleaning (and probably tolerating a little more dust than we would otherwise) all well.
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My brother and sister in law recently moved into town where we live. My husband is extremely nice to his brother and worked with him to help him get certifications in IT and then to help him get his first professional job.
Brother in law has talked with my husband about budgeting and prioritizing money...but not a lot has sunk in. The "pay increase" has convinced them that they need to buy a new car (brand new), that they don't have to cut back on cigarettes, and that brand new kid stuff is essential. What they didn't realize until recently is that they are bumped closer to "middle income" level and are having to now pay for their own insurance, kids stuff, etc. (they were on multiple types of government aid before.
Outside of the idiocy of trying to buy a brand spanking new car (right after having their second child -- during which they kept telling us "kids are so expensive!"), the best was recently when I mentioned that my husband had ruined another pair of khakis at work.
Me: *laughs* "Oh well, just need to check goodwill again for some replacements." (the ones he ruined were 3 dollars at goodwill anyways....)
SIL: *shocked look* "Kohls has pants for 15.00 right now!"
Me: "Meh, no need to drive 30 minutes to buy pants. Hubby will ruin the next goodwill pair in 6 months anyway!"
SIL: "But its only 15.00!"
Me: "3.00 is ok. I am cool with spending 3.00"
BIL won't even wear second hand clothing, and I don't mind my SIL, but her new clothing does nothing to hid her "woe is me" attitude, so they aren't doing her any favors either. They literally make half of what we make, and extremely recently were on government aid for most things -- and I've never felt out-dressed by them.
The short-sightedness kills me. The next time they ask for a loan I want to tell them we started by new clothes so we don't have any to loan out......
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Me: *laughs* "Oh well, just need to check goodwill again for some replacements." (the ones he ruined were 3 dollars at goodwill anyways....)
SIL: *shocked look* "Kohls has pants for 15.00 right now!"
Me: "Meh, no need to drive 30 minutes to buy pants. Hubby will ruin the next goodwill pair in 6 months anyway!"
SIL: "But its only 15.00!"
Me: "3.00 is ok. I am cool with spending 3.00"
What you need to do is act even more shocked:
SIL: "But its only 15.00!"
Me: *shocked look* "But that's FIVE TIMES MORE EXPENSIVE for the same thing!!!!"
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Me: *laughs* "Oh well, just need to check goodwill again for some replacements." (the ones he ruined were 3 dollars at goodwill anyways....)
SIL: *shocked look* "Kohls has pants for 15.00 right now!"
Me: "Meh, no need to drive 30 minutes to buy pants. Hubby will ruin the next goodwill pair in 6 months anyway!"
SIL: "But its only 15.00!"
Me: "3.00 is ok. I am cool with spending 3.00"
What you need to do is act even more shocked:
SIL: "But its only 15.00!"
Me: *shocked look* "But that's FIVE TIMES MORE EXPENSIVE for the same thing!!!!"
That's fantastic -- next time, next time . LOL
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I remember once in grad school telling a fellow student about my awesome find at the thrift store: a complete set of dinnerware. She wrinkled up her nose in disgust and said, "EW!!! You're going to eat your food off of dishes somebody ELSE has eaten off of???"
Um, what do you think happens when you go to a restaurant? They break out a new set of dishes for each customer?
Years ago, I got into an argument with someone online about living alone. The topic came up about the fact that when I graduated college and moved away, I lived in a room in a house, and used a mattress / box spring left by the prior renter. I stored my clothing on shelves. I didn't really have money for a bed, new mattress, or a dresser.
The responses were "you obviously COULD NOT AFFORD TO MOVE AWAY FROM HOME, and had NO BUSINESS doing so if you cannot afford all new furniture" (yeah, um, tell the Navy that. "Sorry I can't go to my new duty station because I can't afford furniture.")
And "Eww. Someone else's mattress?" Did you not ever sleep in a hotel bed?
There's some nuance to this one. I wouldn't pick up a used mattress to take home, because of the possibility of bringing bed-bugs, etc., into my home. But if the mattress is already in your new place, then that point is moot. And in the hotel situation you at least have a chance of catching the infestation before you re-introduce your belongings to your home (plus, what else are you going to do?).
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Way to go dandypandys! Yeah that's the kind of clothes bragging I do too...about my thrift store scores.
a few co-workers and i in our department are quite proud of our thrift store finds. if i get complimented on something i usually say it's GW Couture.
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Funny conversation with colleagues about new cut price store Aldi in town.
Me 'have you been?'
She ' oh no, I went there but did you see the people? and there was a horrible smell'.
Hmmm I think they were just normal people
Hmm, I shop as much as I can there and never recall any particular smells. They have excellent prices on spices and many more things. Even if it didn't smell all that well, I'd still shop there.
The closest one is about an hour away, they are supposed to build one around here soon, but when opportunity strikes, I will stop at an Aldi and stock up. Some of their pasta is the best I've found outside of Little Italy, and you can't beat their prices on pesto, roasted red peppers, and their biscuit mix is to die for. I LOVE Aldi, and the ones I've been to are always clean and well maintained!
As for clothing, I pretty much stick to Ebay - I have a particular dress style that is very flattering for my figure, and I troll the name brand dresses for screaming good deals. Sometimes they are brand new, but even used, I don't care. That's what washing machines are for!
As a result, I get a lot of comments at work about my cute dresses, followed by where do I get them. I know better than to tell the truth, so I'll mention some obscure store not in this state, or tell them I do a lot of vintage. For whatever reason, vintage is acceptable, but saying used/secondhand/thrift is not...
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The closest one is about an hour away, they are supposed to build one around here soon, but when opportunity strikes, I will stop at an Aldi and stock up. Some of their pasta is the best I've found outside of Little Italy, and you can't beat their prices on pesto, roasted red peppers, and their biscuit mix is to die for. I LOVE Aldi, and the ones I've been to are always clean and well maintained!
YIKES! There's one a few minutes from my office and one a few minutes from my house, and I am very happy for the proximity of both. There's also a large chain local grocery store near both. It makes picking up things really easy and whenever I host people if I am missing an ingredient I usually just text whoever is on their way and they will pick it up for me.
Yeah I agree, the one near my office isn't as clean as the one near my house, but they are both fairly clean and well organized. I think my impression of the one near my office is solely due to the fact that I've gone there after work when it is extremely busy, whereas the one near my home I've gone in the mornings and late evenings and it isn't nearly that busy.
I'm glad that I don't need to put up with disorder and filth to save money on my groceries, but I would be somewhat willing to do so it were required.
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As a result, I get a lot of comments at work about my cute dresses, followed by where do I get them. I know better than to tell the truth, so I'll mention some obscure store not in this state, or tell them I do a lot of vintage. For whatever reason, vintage is acceptable, but saying used/secondhand/thrift is not...
Wait, should I start lying about buying my clothes secondhand? I seriously brag about it to anyone who asks... including coworkers/bosses
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As a result, I get a lot of comments at work about my cute dresses, followed by where do I get them. I know better than to tell the truth, so I'll mention some obscure store not in this state, or tell them I do a lot of vintage. For whatever reason, vintage is acceptable, but saying used/secondhand/thrift is not...
Wait, should I start lying about buying my clothes secondhand? I seriously brag about it to anyone who asks... including coworkers/bosses
Eh, I'd say it depends on who you work with and why type of work you do. At my last employer, it was blue collar all the way, so I'd often just say I shopped at Ross, which I actually do sometimes, but I find better quality on eBay for the same or less than Ross. Now I'm in a more upscale environment, and people here make good money and spend it just as fast, so I go the "when in Rome" route. Ironically, I'm sure both locations thought I had a wicked shopping habit, b/c I do own a fair amount of dresses, but when the avg price is $12 and you buy a few every year, it's a very small hit to the budget. I have some dresses that are going on17 years old, but I would NEVER admit that to the folks here!
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My favourite skirt is 12 years old and it was second hand so someone had it before me.
I get compliments on this skirt every time I wear it.
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My favourite skirt is 12 years old and it was second hand so someone had it before me.
I get compliments on this skirt every time I wear it.
My entire wardrobe is second hand. I live near a military base, and military families are extreme when it comes to buying new and ditching the stuff shortly thereafter. I get the whole "move every few years -- don't want to take it with me" mentality...but we are talking big, big money spent and mostly wasted.
I buy brand new name brand running shoes for 3.00, fancy pants jeans for 9.00. I keep a minimalist wardrobe, and 95% of it is second hand. Its a beautiful thing :)
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My favourite skirt is 12 years old and it was second hand so someone had it before me.
I get compliments on this skirt every time I wear it.
My entire wardrobe is second hand. I live near a military base, and military families are extreme when it comes to buying new and ditching the stuff shortly thereafter. I get the whole "move every few years -- don't want to take it with me" mentality...but we are talking big, big money spent and mostly wasted.
I buy brand new name brand running shoes for 3.00, fancy pants jeans for 9.00. I keep a minimalist wardrobe, and 95% of it is second hand. Its a beautiful thing :)
I'm part of that military moving crowd, but instead of just lightening the load it tends to be clothes we haven't worn in a year or more. Most of my wardrobe was gifted to me over the course of several years, but occasionally I'll end of up with some shirts I just never liked or haven't worn so they end up at Goodwill. I'm in a unit that doesn't do organized physical training so I for the first time I needed a set of work out clothes that weren't uniforms. I went to a local thrift store and found three good quality pairs of shorts for $10.
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I have a friend who asked me if she was allowed to shop at Goodwill (like there was a poor person membership card).
Yes I have had people criticise me for buying at second hand stores as I can afford it and I am taking opportunities away from people that can't. Well actually these are businesses often raising money for charity and in my city not many people are buying. So I think it is win win. I get some clothes, the charity gets money. But I can imagine if you were in a place with lots of competition for cheap goods I might feel guilty. Here people dump everything. I am also the beneficiary of friends who turn their wardrobes over every 6 months.
Funny conversation with colleagues about new cut price store Aldi in town.
Me 'have you been?'
She ' oh no, I went there but did you see the people? and there was a horrible smell'.
Hmmm I think they were just normal people
My mom says the same thing... that I am taking advantage of poor people by shopping at thrift stores since I "don't have to. "
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My favourite skirt is 12 years old and it was second hand so someone had it before me.
I get compliments on this skirt every time I wear it.
My entire wardrobe is second hand. I live near a military base, and military families are extreme when it comes to buying new and ditching the stuff shortly thereafter. I get the whole "move every few years -- don't want to take it with me" mentality...but we are talking big, big money spent and mostly wasted.
I buy brand new name brand running shoes for 3.00, fancy pants jeans for 9.00. I keep a minimalist wardrobe, and 95% of it is second hand. Its a beautiful thing :)
The thing about the military is we were taught that everything had to fit in out sea bag. The wife, the kids, the laundry... Now do you understand? ;)
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I have a friend who asked me if she was allowed to shop at Goodwill (like there was a poor person membership card).
Yes I have had people criticise me for buying at second hand stores as I can afford it and I am taking opportunities away from people that can't. Well actually these are businesses often raising money for charity and in my city not many people are buying. So I think it is win win. I get some clothes, the charity gets money. But I can imagine if you were in a place with lots of competition for cheap goods I might feel guilty. Here people dump everything. I am also the beneficiary of friends who turn their wardrobes over every 6 months.
Funny conversation with colleagues about new cut price store Aldi in town.
Me 'have you been?'
She ' oh no, I went there but did you see the people? and there was a horrible smell'.
Hmmm I think they were just normal people
Our Goodwill (in a pretty well-off town) plays a recording along the lines of "Thank you for shopping at Goodwill. By buying here, you are helping reduce waste, while supporting our jobs program." I think they're really trying to get rid of the stigma of buying second-hand.
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I think I've told this story before on some other thread, but...
About 15 years ago, a not particularly well off family member and his wife welcome their new baby. I tell them that in my upscale neighborhood yard sales I have seen oodles of practically brand new baby clothes, most were "designer" like Oshkosh, Gap, etc., and that for $20 I can buy all the clothes the baby will need for years. Family member says, "No child of mine will wear secondhand clothes." Um, ok. People are so strange and shortsighted.
My DH gets amazing work shirts at Goodwill.
This reminds me of a conversation I had with a coworker. I'm slightly older than many of my coworkers and had my daughter about 10 years before the rest of them started having babies. At that time, we had A TON of amazing thrift shops in our area, and after the first few months, I had a great routine of trading in old clothes for store credit, and buying "new" clothes with said credit. I hardly paid a cent for baby clothes until she was almost 4. (Dang, I miss those days!) As I was explaining this to a new mom, she was shocked and said I just didn't seem like the type to frequent thrift shops because I always look so nice, as does my daughter. Then, in the same sentence, she said she just couldn't do that because her MIL wants the baby to look nice at all times.
Um, oookkkaaaayyyyy...
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I think I've told this story before on some other thread, but...
About 15 years ago, a not particularly well off family member and his wife welcome their new baby. I tell them that in my upscale neighborhood yard sales I have seen oodles of practically brand new baby clothes, most were "designer" like Oshkosh, Gap, etc., and that for $20 I can buy all the clothes the baby will need for years. Family member says, "No child of mine will wear secondhand clothes." Um, ok. People are so strange and shortsighted.
My DH gets amazing work shirts at Goodwill.
This reminds me of a conversation I had with a coworker. I'm slightly older than many of my coworkers and had my daughter about 10 years before the rest of them started having babies. At that time, we had A TON of amazing thrift shops in our area, and after the first few months, I had a great routine of trading in old clothes for store credit, and buying "new" clothes with said credit. I hardly paid a cent for baby clothes until she was almost 4. (Dang, I miss those days!) As I was explaining this to a new mom, she was shocked and said I just didn't seem like the type to frequent thrift shops because I always look so nice, as does my daughter. Then, in the same sentence, she said she just couldn't do that because her MIL wants the baby to look nice at all times.
Um, oookkkaaaayyyyy...
... Wow. If my MIL wanted my kid to wear a certain thing, she could buy it, and then the kid would wear it when convenient/appropriate. You had your time raising kids, etc. Wow.
I am very, very jealous of those with decent thrift shops. Around here it's used Walmart clothing (stretched out and slightly stiff cotton blends, etc) for about 75% of the cost of new Old Navy delivered to my door. I'll take the 25% hit and save the half-day of trying to find anything wearable there.
On the plus side, kijiji/Facebook is a goldmine for furnishing houses around here. No one likes or values "that old stuff", so really good solid well-maintained wood antiques go for slightly cheaper than ikea furniture.
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This reminds me of a conversation I had with a coworker. I'm slightly older than many of my coworkers and had my daughter about 10 years before the rest of them started having babies. At that time, we had A TON of amazing thrift shops in our area, and after the first few months, I had a great routine of trading in old clothes for store credit, and buying "new" clothes with said credit. I hardly paid a cent for baby clothes until she was almost 4. (Dang, I miss those days!) As I was explaining this to a new mom, she was shocked and said I just didn't seem like the type to frequent thrift shops because I always look so nice, as does my daughter. Then, in the same sentence, she said she just couldn't do that because her MIL wants the baby to look nice at all times.
Um, oookkkaaaayyyyy...
I remember being a wee bit skeeved out when I first got into shopping for used clothes (Stuff was fine - I happily bought dishes, etc). Thankfully, when I had my first baby, my DH's coworker mentioned a sale for kids clothes and stuff. We went and I remember buying 1 or 2 little things but couldn't bring myself to buy clothes. The 2nd time we went, I bought a like new dress for my baby. By the 3rd time, I bought EVERYTHING. Within a year, I was happily thrift store shopping for myself. Eventually, DH and I even started organizing similar sales in our own community, converting even more local families to shopping for used stuff. I miss those days...we'd get a 100 families to rent tables and would get 3000 people out for 4 hours of shopping madness. Fun times!
My kids were always in awesome outfits and we always got complimented on their clothes. And of course, we'd just turn around and resell them after - I probably broke even (or made money?) on their clothes, toys, and supplies throughout their childhood. My one problem was I became a shopaholic and their closets were always ridiculously stuffed.
Now they are in their teens and its almost impossible to resell their stuff anymore. So they just go to the donation bin.
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Yup, the L'Oreal slogan has evolved in the years since then, first to, "Because you're worth it," then to, "Because we're worth it." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6DHRFuCEwA
Yeah, that phrase and "you deserve it" have done considerable damage to America's wallet.
I have no idea if Clinique is inherently better than what you could buy at Walmart, but I'll bet there are some similarities to the stigma of buying at Goodwill vs A&F.
Clinique is better than drugstore products for me because I am HORRIBLE with color, and the ladies at the Clinique counter let you "try before you buy"; thus, I can walk away knowing that I've bought a product that actually works for me -- rather than being stuck with 2-3 not-quite-right eyeshadows or lipsticks from the drugstore, which sit around unused 'til I toss them. Also, Clinique makes a couple specialty foundation for people with specific skin conditions -- I use one of those -- it genuinely works better. If my dermatologist hadn't told me that, I wouldn't have known. Having said that, I probably spend all of $30/year on their products, so it's not really breaking the bank.
Yes I have had people criticise me for buying at second hand stores as I can afford it and I am taking opportunities away from people that can't. Well actually these are businesses often raising money for charity and in my city not many people are buying.
I see the same thing in my area: Thrifty middle class people shop at Goodwill (and similar), while actual poor people avoid the place. NO second-hand negativity exists among my friends and co-workers.
There's some nuance to this one. I wouldn't pick up a used mattress to take home, because of the possibility of bringing bed-bugs, etc., into my home.
I'm with you on this one. Two friends of mine have had bed-bug problems, and they both reported that getting rid of them was real work and VERY expensive in the long run. It's actually illegal to sell a used mattress in my state, though I've seen them at yard sales marked "Buy these sheets for X and take the mattress for free."
As for clothing, I pretty much stick to Ebay - I have a particular dress style that is very flattering for my figure, and I troll the name brand dresses for screaming good deals. Sometimes they are brand new, but even used, I don't care. That's what washing machines are for!
I also have better luck with ebay than with brick-and-mortar thrift stores.
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I remember once in grad school telling a fellow student about my awesome find at the thrift store: a complete set of dinnerware. She wrinkled up her nose in disgust and said, "EW!!! You're going to eat your food off of dishes somebody ELSE has eaten off of???"
Um, what do you think happens when you go to a restaurant? They break out a new set of dishes for each customer?
Years ago, I got into an argument with someone online about living alone. The topic came up about the fact that when I graduated college and moved away, I lived in a room in a house, and used a mattress / box spring left by the prior renter. I stored my clothing on shelves. I didn't really have money for a bed, new mattress, or a dresser.
The responses were "you obviously COULD NOT AFFORD TO MOVE AWAY FROM HOME, and had NO BUSINESS doing so if you cannot afford all new furniture" (yeah, um, tell the Navy that. "Sorry I can't go to my new duty station because I can't afford furniture.")
And "Eww. Someone else's mattress?" Did you not ever sleep in a hotel bed?
There's some nuance to this one. I wouldn't pick up a used mattress to take home, because of the possibility of bringing bed-bugs, etc., into my home. But if the mattress is already in your new place, then that point is moot. And in the hotel situation you at least have a chance of catching the infestation before you re-introduce your belongings to your home (plus, what else are you going to do?).
Eh, in this case one of the other two renters was a friend of mine, so I knew the place was free of bed bugs.
I've sold mattresses on Craigslist (or donated them) - both my kids' cribs. I'd buy a used mattress from a friend if I needed to (honestly, our last mattress lasted from 1994 to 2004).
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My favourite skirt is 12 years old and it was second hand so someone had it before me.
I get compliments on this skirt every time I wear it.
My entire wardrobe is second hand. I live near a military base, and military families are extreme when it comes to buying new and ditching the stuff shortly thereafter. I get the whole "move every few years -- don't want to take it with me" mentality...but we are talking big, big money spent and mostly wasted.
I buy brand new name brand running shoes for 3.00, fancy pants jeans for 9.00. I keep a minimalist wardrobe, and 95% of it is second hand. Its a beautiful thing :)
The thing about the military is we were taught that everything had to fit in out sea bag. The wife, the kids, the laundry... Now do you understand? ;)
Oh I totally understand -- I am not military, but I clear everything possible out before we move. What I don't understand is that they buy it brand new as soon as they arrive, only to ditch it and buy it brand new at the next duty station. Every military family I know here (minus the one who brought antique German furniture wit them from Europe) bought new at the last station, ditched it, and bought brand new here. And not a few brand new items -- 4-5 bedroom housefuls of furniture/TVs/toys for families of 3, only to throw it all away when they leave. And they won't shop used. Almost nobody will shop used. I don't understand the mentality I guess. Whenever a neighborhood in this small little town starts to age (20ish years old), they can't rent it or sell it any longer to military families -- the houses are too small, too shabby. New sets of bigger and bigger ones keep going up, and thats where they gravitate to -- even thought I don't think their salaries are going up that quickly..... And new houses in a town where the only traffic in and out is military means an influx of empty, 20-30 year old houses losing value and costing the local economy :(
If I were military, I feel like I would rather live small, buy little and buy used, and take full advantage of the opportunities for seeing other countries :) Its not an easy career or way of life for a family, but if its yours, take full advantage of it!
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I'm one of those "weirdos" who can't buy used. Sorry, just can't do it. Skeeves me out. There are very few things I would consider buying used, and almost all of them are because you can't get them new anymore. I would honestly just rather do without if I can't afford to buy something new. The only other time I might is if it was something from someone I knew who bought something and didn't/couldn't use it, so I'm essentially buying it new from them. And used clothes? Never. I MIGHT spend $300 a year on myself for clothes (mostly just replacing underwear, and the occasional dress shirt) so it really isn't worth it to me to save money in this area.
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If I were military, I feel like I would rather live small, buy little and buy used, and take full advantage of the opportunities for seeing other countries :) Its not an easy career or way of life for a family, but if its yours, take full advantage of it!
Things must have changed then since I was in. I bought several pieces of used furniture when I was renting a house overseas and then gave it away or traded it when it was time to leave. I did see people off-loading cars for nothing rather than dealing with the trouble of selling them and I bought/traded for a few to fix and flip. Admittedly these cars were not expensive cars though. Basic transportation.
Back then I was too poor to spend and trash and spend. As an E-4 I was only making $14K as I recall. That figured into my reasoning for getting out b/c I could make the same or more working many entry level jobs without the risks.
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If I were military, I feel like I would rather live small, buy little and buy used, and take full advantage of the opportunities for seeing other countries :) Its not an easy career or way of life for a family, but if its yours, take full advantage of it!
Things must have changed then since I was in. I bought several pieces of used furniture when I was renting a house overseas and then gave it away or traded it when it was time to leave. I did see people off-loading cars for nothing rather than dealing with the trouble of selling them and I bought/traded for a few to fix and flip. Admittedly these cars were not expensive cars though. Basic transportation.
Back then I was too poor to spend and trash and spend. As an E-4 I was only making $14K as I recall. That figured into my reasoning for getting out b/c I could make the same or more working many entry level jobs without the risks.
I suppose it could be generational, not simply a mentality that impacts strictly military families. I would rather live minimally and buy used for most things -- its possible that I'm in the minority everywhere, not just in my little military town ;)
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I suspect that this thought is some kind of meme that entered society through some kind of advertising campaign and has been uncritically accepted by some (including my friend). Does anyone know the history of this kind of thinking?
Total societal brainwash. That barefoot kid in Guatemala wearing rags who never got an education? So not worth it.
When someone says they're "worth it", I say, "Yeah, about $150... That is, if you could process all the chemical elements properly." They sag a little when I say that, so I usually add, "...$45 million though if you want to start selling your organs on the black market instead."
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I'm one of those "weirdos" who can't buy used. Sorry, just can't do it. Skeeves me out. There are very few things I would consider buying used, and almost all of them are because you can't get them new anymore. I would honestly just rather do without if I can't afford to buy something new. The only other time I might is if it was something from someone I knew who bought something and didn't/couldn't use it, so I'm essentially buying it new from them. And used clothes? Never. I MIGHT spend $300 a year on myself for clothes (mostly just replacing underwear, and the occasional dress shirt) so it really isn't worth it to me to save money in this area.
Well, your choice. I can see being skeeved out by used clothes and bedding, but would you be bothered by used metal patio furniture? Stuff that can be completely disinfected? Or are you only bothered by used textiles? Just curious.
Also, I'm averaging around $60-80/year on clothes (mostly used).
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I'm one of those "weirdos" who can't buy used. Sorry, just can't do it. Skeeves me out. There are very few things I would consider buying used, and almost all of them are because you can't get them new anymore. I would honestly just rather do without if I can't afford to buy something new. The only other time I might is if it was something from someone I knew who bought something and didn't/couldn't use it, so I'm essentially buying it new from them. And used clothes? Never. I MIGHT spend $300 a year on myself for clothes (mostly just replacing underwear, and the occasional dress shirt) so it really isn't worth it to me to save money in this area.
Well, your choice. I can see being skeeved out by used clothes and bedding, but would you be bothered by used metal patio furniture? Stuff that can be completely disinfected? Or are you only bothered by used textiles? Just curious.
Also, I'm averaging around $60-80/year on clothes (mostly used).
And what about hotel textiles? Textiles on chairs at the dentist office? Cutlery and plates at a restaurant? Other people have touched things we use, no matter where we're using them. They're not suddenly grosser because of that.
(Plus, I have a taste for antiques - stuff was made SO MUCH BETTER and so much more solid 200 years ago. Fortunately, people who 'only furnish their houses in a modern style with new furniture' means I pay less than Ikea prices.)
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The thing about the military is we were taught that everything had to fit in out sea bag. The wife, the kids, the laundry...
That's the kind of thing I fantasize about on long road trips. :P
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I'm one of those "weirdos" who can't buy used. Sorry, just can't do it. Skeeves me out. There are very few things I would consider buying used, and almost all of them are because you can't get them new anymore. I would honestly just rather do without if I can't afford to buy something new. The only other time I might is if it was something from someone I knew who bought something and didn't/couldn't use it, so I'm essentially buying it new from them. And used clothes? Never. I MIGHT spend $300 a year on myself for clothes (mostly just replacing underwear, and the occasional dress shirt) so it really isn't worth it to me to save money in this area.
Well, your choice. I can see being skeeved out by used clothes and bedding, but would you be bothered by used metal patio furniture? Stuff that can be completely disinfected? Or are you only bothered by used textiles? Just curious.
Also, I'm averaging around $60-80/year on clothes (mostly used).
I've no idea. I last bought patio furniture about 10 years ago. I don't remember it being particularly expensive ($400?) for a table and 4 rocking chairs, bought them on sale at Memorial Day?. I suppose if some fell in my lap that would be fine, but no, I wouldn't likely set out to 'shop' for that stuff on C-list or the like.
I'm of the mindset that I don't buy a lot of stuff, and what I do buy, I save up for, buy a good quality, and keep a long long time.
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(Plus, I have a taste for antiques - stuff was made SO MUCH BETTER and so much more solid 200 years ago. Fortunately, people who 'only furnish their houses in a modern style with new furniture' means I pay less than Ikea prices.)
Any advice on getting started with this? I love the concept of buying antiques but don't know anything of how to assess how good a piece is nor where to find good prices. I would love your advice on this.
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I'm one of those "weirdos" who can't buy used. Sorry, just can't do it. Skeeves me out. There are very few things I would consider buying used, and almost all of them are because you can't get them new anymore. I would honestly just rather do without if I can't afford to buy something new. The only other time I might is if it was something from someone I knew who bought something and didn't/couldn't use it, so I'm essentially buying it new from them. And used clothes? Never. I MIGHT spend $300 a year on myself for clothes (mostly just replacing underwear, and the occasional dress shirt) so it really isn't worth it to me to save money in this area.
Well, your choice. I can see being skeeved out by used clothes and bedding, but would you be bothered by used metal patio furniture? Stuff that can be completely disinfected? Or are you only bothered by used textiles? Just curious.
Also, I'm averaging around $60-80/year on clothes (mostly used).
And what about hotel textiles? Textiles on chairs at the dentist office? Cutlery and plates at a restaurant? Other people have touched things we use, no matter where we're using them. They're not suddenly grosser because of that.
(Plus, I have a taste for antiques - stuff was made SO MUCH BETTER and so much more solid 200 years ago. Fortunately, people who 'only furnish their houses in a modern style with new furniture' means I pay less than Ikea prices.)
I dunno, rental stuff is rental stuff, it's different than stuff I'm going to own. I can't explain why, it just is. I also suspect I stay in a nicer quality hotel than the average MMMer would be willing to spring for ;) Things like AirBnB also skeeve me out, for whatever reason the idea of a "professional" maid staff is different than some dude or woman doing the bedding on their own, even though intellectually I know I probably have that backwards.
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(Plus, I have a taste for antiques - stuff was made SO MUCH BETTER and so much more solid 200 years ago. Fortunately, people who 'only furnish their houses in a modern style with new furniture' means I pay less than Ikea prices.)
Any advice on getting started with this? I love the concept of buying antiques but don't know anything of how to assess how good a piece is nor where to find good prices. I would love your advice on this.
Advice for non-professional antiquing:
Baseline: if it's survived 100+ years and isn't wobbling, jamming (drawers, esp), or peeling (NO VENEER EVER), you're gonna have something that's gonna last for a bit. If it IS wobbling or jamming, look to see if you can fix it (a table might need a felt pad, a drawer might need a bit of sanding or oiling. No complicated repairs, at this stage).
After that, what you're looking to is your taste (highly personal, obv) and your budget. Around here, Facebook garage sale groups, Kijiji, Craigslist, and thrift/junk shops tend to be a goldmine for that sort of thing. Avoid antique shops at all costs unless you just want to browse and not buy - they know the value of what they're selling and you will NOT get a deal.
Around here, I've found old bookcases, end tables (80$, from the mid-1800s, excellent condition), bedroom bureaus (early-mid-1800s, 200$), and the like on Kijiji. Facebook groups yielded some amazing wool rugs from the 1950s (an old man who was moving into a home) for 50$ each for 8x10 rugs (we're not in an area with a bedbug issue and I inspected the rugs and had them cleaned). Thrift stores have gorgeous huge brass lamp bases for 20$ (10$ at the hardware store and an hour to re-wire them, 15$ at Homesense for a drum shade, and done).
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Total societal brainwash.
You've just summed up nine tenths of the reasoning behind the fashion industry, the vehicle industry, and the home renovations and redecoration industry. Bravo.
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(Plus, I have a taste for antiques - stuff was made SO MUCH BETTER and so much more solid 200 years ago. Fortunately, people who 'only furnish their houses in a modern style with new furniture' means I pay less than Ikea prices.)
Any advice on getting started with this? I love the concept of buying antiques but don't know anything of how to assess how good a piece is nor where to find good prices. I would love your advice on this.
Advice for non-professional antiquing:
Baseline: if it's survived 100+ years and isn't wobbling, jamming (drawers, esp), or peeling (NO VENEER EVER), you're gonna have something that's gonna last for a bit. If it IS wobbling or jamming, look to see if you can fix it (a table might need a felt pad, a drawer might need a bit of sanding or oiling. No complicated repairs, at this stage).
After that, what you're looking to is your taste (highly personal, obv) and your budget. Around here, Facebook garage sale groups, Kijiji, Craigslist, and thrift/junk shops tend to be a goldmine for that sort of thing. Avoid antique shops at all costs unless you just want to browse and not buy - they know the value of what they're selling and you will NOT get a deal.
Around here, I've found old bookcases, end tables (80$, from the mid-1800s, excellent condition), bedroom bureaus (early-mid-1800s, 200$), and the like on Kijiji. Facebook groups yielded some amazing wool rugs from the 1950s (an old man who was moving into a home) for 50$ each for 8x10 rugs (we're not in an area with a bedbug issue and I inspected the rugs and had them cleaned). Thrift stores have gorgeous huge brass lamp bases for 20$ (10$ at the hardware store and an hour to re-wire them, 15$ at Homesense for a drum shade, and done).
Thanks so much! I'm going to start by looking for a quality dinner table that extends.
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(Plus, I have a taste for antiques - stuff was made SO MUCH BETTER and so much more solid 200 years ago. Fortunately, people who 'only furnish their houses in a modern style with new furniture' means I pay less than Ikea prices.)
Any advice on getting started with this? I love the concept of buying antiques but don't know anything of how to assess how good a piece is nor where to find good prices. I would love your advice on this.
Advice for non-professional antiquing:
Baseline: if it's survived 100+ years and isn't wobbling, jamming (drawers, esp), or peeling (NO VENEER EVER), you're gonna have something that's gonna last for a bit. If it IS wobbling or jamming, look to see if you can fix it (a table might need a felt pad, a drawer might need a bit of sanding or oiling. No complicated repairs, at this stage).
After that, what you're looking to is your taste (highly personal, obv) and your budget. Around here, Facebook garage sale groups, Kijiji, Craigslist, and thrift/junk shops tend to be a goldmine for that sort of thing. Avoid antique shops at all costs unless you just want to browse and not buy - they know the value of what they're selling and you will NOT get a deal.
Around here, I've found old bookcases, end tables (80$, from the mid-1800s, excellent condition), bedroom bureaus (early-mid-1800s, 200$), and the like on Kijiji. Facebook groups yielded some amazing wool rugs from the 1950s (an old man who was moving into a home) for 50$ each for 8x10 rugs (we're not in an area with a bedbug issue and I inspected the rugs and had them cleaned). Thrift stores have gorgeous huge brass lamp bases for 20$ (10$ at the hardware store and an hour to re-wire them, 15$ at Homesense for a drum shade, and done).
Thanks so much! I'm going to start by looking for a quality dinner table that extends.
Oh god those are SO EASY to find. A lot of super well-made ones that people got in the 40s as sets (8 chairs, table, china hutch, etc) and that don't fit in most apartments, so people emptying out their grandparents places have nowhere to put them. And the boomers who inherited their nice stuff 20 years ago find that their kids mostly have apartments too small to take it, and are trying to sell. Total market glut. I think a friend got a maple table, 12 chairs, and 2 china hutches for 400$... might've been 450$. Plus movers, but still. I saw a similar set for sale around here for 900$ yesterday. I also saw a set new at the store today - 6K plus. So. :)
If you're just looking at the table, make sure that it suits your taste, doesn't wobble, and that the top is supported when extended (turkey crashing down through the boards on Thanksgiving = nightmare). Barring that, as long as it's not veneer (when that chips, it looks SO CHEAP and it's really hard to fix) and it suits your taste... :)
Oh, and if it's old and the varnish is wearing off, my advice is to NOT varnish it - cover it with lemon furniture oil instead - quick wipe every couple of months. It protects the wood, makes it look really lush, and doesn't scratch when someone puts something on the table, so the piece stays nicer longer. And varnishing smells and is a pain in the ass do to.
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If I were military, I feel like I would rather live small, buy little and buy used, and take full advantage of the opportunities for seeing other countries :) Its not an easy career or way of life for a family, but if its yours, take full advantage of it!
Things must have changed then since I was in. I bought several pieces of used furniture when I was renting a house overseas and then gave it away or traded it when it was time to leave. I did see people off-loading cars for nothing rather than dealing with the trouble of selling them and I bought/traded for a few to fix and flip. Admittedly these cars were not expensive cars though. Basic transportation.
Back then I was too poor to spend and trash and spend. As an E-4 I was only making $14K as I recall. That figured into my reasoning for getting out b/c I could make the same or more working many entry level jobs without the risks.
I suppose it could be generational, not simply a mentality that impacts strictly military families. I would rather live minimally and buy used for most things -- its possible that I'm in the minority everywhere, not just in my little military town ;)
You're reading the MMM forum after all. Yeah, we are all probably a minority mindset of the USA. ;)
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As an E-4 I was only making $14K as I recall. That figured into my reasoning for getting out b/c I could make the same or more working many entry level jobs without the risks.
In retrospect, do you stand by that reasoning? I find most people in the military have no fucking clue what all their tax-free benefits are worth, and generally have a very distorted concept of how military and civilian pay compare. And this is true most of all in the lower enlisted ranks, where pre-tax value of goods and services provided (or funded via allowances) may exceed actual wages. You're here, so you're probably above average in math, but I'm still curious.
Source: I'm a career military officer (6yrs active, now ANG) as well as a tax preparer.
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As an E-4 I was only making $14K as I recall. That figured into my reasoning for getting out b/c I could make the same or more working many entry level jobs without the risks.
In retrospect, do you stand by that reasoning? I find most people in the military have no fucking clue what all their tax-free benefits are worth, and generally have a very distorted concept of how military and civilian pay compare. And this is true most of all in the lower enlisted ranks, where pre-tax value of goods and services provided (or funded via allowances) may exceed actual wages. You're here, so you're probably above average in math, but I'm still curious.
Source: I'm a career military officer (6yrs active, now ANG) as well as a tax preparer.
There's no free lunch. Yes, there are lots of tax-free benefits in the military, but A) a lot of them come with HUGE strings attached (free healthcare provided by the lowest common denominator, free housing that generally sucks), and B) you give away vast amounts of other opportunities in the military such as upside potential, it's much harder to own a home, it's much harder to have a working professional spouse, little control of your destiny, etc etc etc.
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I am, despite being an engineer, am very average with math.
You are right - I did not factor in the value of living on a ship nor did I factor in the benefits. The low E-4 salary of the time was simply another reason for me to complete my enlistment and head to college. I briefly considered exploring re-entering as an officer where things would be much improved - more money, more freedom, more of several different aspects I considered to be positives.
In the end I began working a series of civilian jobs, married/started a family, and find myself very content. From time to time I explore the notion of working as a civilian for the military overseas - I really enjoyed living in Europe. Right now though I think stability for our kids is likely what the family needs. Maybe we'll vacation in Europe someday soon for a few weeks and scratch that itch enough.