Author Topic: $5000 a month for childcare in NY so I have to live in a 1 bedroom shack...  (Read 5943 times)

Erica/NWEdible

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...if only I had babies 5 years earlier, I would have been forced to get my shit together...5 years earlier! Oh wait, since I want a bigger place but I complain about how hard it is to go out with girlfriends NOW because it takes two weeks to book a babysitter and I stopped contributing to my 401K because childcare for my 2 kids is $60K a year (and I'm expecting my third child right now!), maybe even the kids didn't prompt me to get my shit together! Anyway, the point is, people should all have babies earlier! Because of chemicals and stuff. Get it?

http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2012/12/10/older_parenthood_is_waiting_longer_to_have_kids_a_feminist_triumph_or_a.html

PS: This is the worst ending to an article I've seen in...maybe ever. I kept trying to find the "next page" button. I'll spare you the hunt. It really does just stop.

jrhampt

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Oh, the inhumanity!  Only one toilet?  We had seven in the house with a single toilet when I was a kid.  I'm not saying it was great, but if it's so awful, then why is she still having more kids?

michael

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Then there’s this: “What haunts me about my children,” writes Shulevitz, “is not the embarrassment they feel when their friends study my wrinkles or my husband’s salt-and-pepper temples. It’s the actuarial risk I run of dying before they’re ready to face the world.” She goes on to cite these feel-good stats:

A mother who is 35 when her child is born is more likely than not to have died by the time that child is 46. The one who is 45 may have bowed out of her child’s life when he’s 37.

What??? If your kid is not ready to face the world by the time he is 37, I don't think there's much hope!!

Oh, and...
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...live in one of the most expensive cities in the world simply because we want to.

Wow. This is hilarious, thanks for the article!

lhamo

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Oh my lordy -- NYC people are just NUTS sometimes!  If this is all such a struggle and horrible sacrifice then:

1)  Have fewer kids or
2)  Move

Nobody is forcing them to cram a family of five into a one-bath brooklyn brownstone.  Somebody send in the WHAAAAAMbulance to pick these people up and knock some sense into them please....

On the age thing, I also don't get what her issue is.  Our kids were born when I was 32 and 36 and their dad 42/46 and they seem neither traumatized nor disabled/deficient in any way.  And their dad is a smoker (send out the parental police now -- I do make him keep it outside)!  And I had a glass of wine or two while pregnant!  The only major deformity they have (bad eyesight) is clearly from me -- I would have been bitten by a snake at a young age ("ooh -- look at the pretty wiggly stick with all those nice colors!") if I'd been born in an earlier era, so I consider us all lucky to be living in the age of easy access to glasses, contacts, and other means of adjusting one's eyesight.  I never considered myself to be an "older mom."  I'm pretty normal for my peer group (which, granted, is a highly educated academic or management level sort of group). 

And I'm also not convinced that the older mom thing is all so new, or needs to be viewed with so much drama.  Granted, average age of first births has gone up, especially in the middle and upper middle class.  But there were probably plenty of older mom's giving birth in the days before easily accessible birth control.  I was born to older parents (mom 39, dad 37 -- last child and my given name means "gracious gift of god" so I figured out pretty early I was an "oops" baby) and did just fine with it.  Dad did die early of a heart attack (as did his father), but mom is still grooving along in her 80s.  Other grandparents all lived to ripe old ages.

I guess I shouldn't be too surprised by this, though.  If you want some really unmustachian schadenfreude, check out urbanbaby.com where this kind of handwringing about how impossible it is to live on less than $500k/year is de riguer for the monied mommy set that dominates there. I still visit to get a window into the world I'm glad I left behind when we left NY.   Wonder what they'd do if a bunch of mustachian's invaded and started slapping them around a bit.   

noob515

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I know NYC is expensive, but $5k/month for 2 kids to go to daycare?  I have a friend who lives not far from NYC, in NJ, and he pays $2k/month for 2 kids to go to daycare.  And my friend has a far bigger house than the couple in this article.  So like lhamo said, either move, or don't have kids.  Frankly, daycare costs are why my husband and I haven't had kids, and may never have them. 

The whole article is such rubbish it's not even worth me commenting on.  I will only say that clearly this woman is incredibly selfish for continuing to have children she apparently can't afford.

ruthiegirl

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I don't see her issue either.  The genetic issues of older parents has certainly not dissuaded them from having another child.  Her real problem seems to be "I don't get a big house in one of the most expensive real estate markets in the world."  Tough shit.


She does have a point, though I don't imagine she knows it.  Because older parents have lived their younger, professional years without kids to hamper their lifestyles, older moms can be the biggest pains in the ass.  As a lactation consultant, I spend a lot of time with new parents and the high-earning professional moms are my biggest headaches.   Give me a young mom who hasn't become accustomed to having every wish fulfilled.  They will always be more receptive and have better success breastfeeding their babies.  A big part of becoming a new parent is letting go of the 'gimmes'.  She is right...she won't get everything she wants. 

gdborton

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I'll never understand this forum.

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Let me just stop you mid-eye-roll to confirm that yes: We are, by the standards of most Americans, rich. My husband and I both have steady jobs, make good salaries, and are lucky enough to be able to live in one of the most expensive cities in the world simply because we want to. As Gawker’s Hamilton Nolan wrote earlier this year, we can’t cry poor just because we don’t have a lot of money left after we’ve spent it all.

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So I’m not complaining. But you know what I am doing? I’m wishing.

She obviously understands that her situation is a result of her choices, and is taking responsibility for them.


The only bit that gets me jumping are these two bits:
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plus their grandparents, who after all have to wait a lot longer than they used to for grandchildren

Who gives a flying fuck what the grandparents think?  If they wanted grandchildren at a younger age, they should have had their kids younger.  Your life/children shouldn't be dependent on anyone else's ideas or timeline, including your parents.

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It’s the actuarial risk I run of dying before they’re ready to face the world.

33 is grown and then some.  If your child (handicaps aside) isn't ready to deal with life by 25, you've failed them.  I'd argue sooner, but everyone is different and is exposed to different situations.

bo_knows

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I'll never understand this forum.

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Let me just stop you mid-eye-roll to confirm that yes: We are, by the standards of most Americans, rich. My husband and I both have steady jobs, make good salaries, and are lucky enough to be able to live in one of the most expensive cities in the world simply because we want to. As Gawker’s Hamilton Nolan wrote earlier this year, we can’t cry poor just because we don’t have a lot of money left after we’ve spent it all.

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So I’m not complaining. But you know what I am doing? I’m wishing.

She obviously understands that her situation is a result of her choices, and is taking responsibility for them.


No, she's not taking responsibility for them, really. She's whining, even though she says she isn't.  It's pretty easy to make fun of someone who is whining about their living situation, spending $5k/mo on daycare, obviously makes a lot of money, but never feels like it's enough.

Angelfishtitan

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Quote from: Article
I’m 35, he’s almost 40

Quote from: Article
So I’m not complaining.

Quote from: Article
So 2018 will also be the year we start paying into it again—not that we will ever be able to retire—and, hey, let’s put some away for college, shall we?

Quote from: Article
Plus the physical advantages of being a young mom—to think how much kinder I could have been on my poor, poor old-lady back.

T_T

noob515

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The only bit that gets me jumping are these two bits:
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plus their grandparents, who after all have to wait a lot longer than they used to for grandchildren

Who gives a flying fuck what the grandparents think?  If they wanted grandchildren at a younger age, they should have had their kids younger.  Your life/children shouldn't be dependent on anyone else's ideas or timeline, including your parents.

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It’s the actuarial risk I run of dying before they’re ready to face the world.

33 is grown and then some.  If your child (handicaps aside) isn't ready to deal with life by 25, you've failed them.  I'd argue sooner, but everyone is different and is exposed to different situations.


I agree 100% about the grandparent bit.  It's ridiculous to piss and moan that you may not get to see your grandchildren get married, graduate college, etc.  My mom's mom died when she was 22, and my dad's dad died when he was 24.  Just this year, 2 of my close friends had their mothers die unexpectedly, and we're all only 33.  Getting to see those milestones isn't a given, even for your own kids, let alone grandkids.  The purpose of having kids isn't just to eventually hang out with grandkids.

And 25?  I'd argue sooner also.  The majority of us should be equipped to "deal with life" by the time we become adults, which legally is the age of 18.

gdborton

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Re: $5000 a month for childcare in NY so I have to live in a 1 bedroom shack...
« Reply #10 on: December 13, 2012, 09:51:04 AM »
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And 25?  I'd argue sooner also.

There are certain things that I'd say people should have some help with, that they might not see as quickly as others.  A first apartment if you stayed at home through college, first car in your name, maybe buying your first house.  I don't think people can't do these solo, but it's nice to have the knowledge of age to help you know what to look for, and what to run from.

Angelfishtitan

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Re: $5000 a month for childcare in NY so I have to live in a 1 bedroom shack...
« Reply #11 on: December 13, 2012, 12:11:53 PM »
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And 25?  I'd argue sooner also.

There are certain things that I'd say people should have some help with, that they might not see as quickly as others.  A first apartment if you stayed at home through college, first car in your name, maybe buying your first house.  I don't think people can't do these solo, but it's nice to have the knowledge of age to help you know what to look for, and what to run from.

I half agree with you and half with noob515. As a young man myself, I have looked to both my parents and my in-laws for advice when it came to all three of these things. At the same time it was advice, that I have both taken and thrown away, not them making sure I didn't screw up my life because I wasn't "ready to face the world" as the article author was implying. If your child is incapable of living their life at 25 you probably have screwed up (or wrong and they actually can).

noob515

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Re: $5000 a month for childcare in NY so I have to live in a 1 bedroom shack...
« Reply #12 on: December 13, 2012, 12:58:19 PM »
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And 25?  I'd argue sooner also.

There are certain things that I'd say people should have some help with, that they might not see as quickly as others.  A first apartment if you stayed at home through college, first car in your name, maybe buying your first house.  I don't think people can't do these solo, but it's nice to have the knowledge of age to help you know what to look for, and what to run from.

I half agree with you and half with noob515. As a young man myself, I have looked to both my parents and my in-laws for advice when it came to all three of these things. At the same time it was advice, that I have both taken and thrown away, not them making sure I didn't screw up my life because I wasn't "ready to face the world" as the article author was implying. If your child is incapable of living their life at 25 you probably have screwed up (or wrong and they actually can).

Yes, this is exactly what I meant.  You should absolutely be able give your adult kids advice, based on the experience that comes with age.  And if you want to help give a monetary gift to help with the purchase of a 1st car or house, or a wedding, go ahead.  But I felt the author was implying that if you died early, you wouldn't know for sure whether or not your kids could tie their own shoes.

I don't think the author was saying that these kids WERE incapable of living their own life at 25, but was coming from a more "my precious little baby will never stop needing me" attitude, where she is the one who can't handle the concept of her kids being independent adults.  It's probably why she cares so much about being able to be there for when the grandkids are older as well.

Just some armchair psychology there for you.  :)

gooki

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Re: $5000 a month for childcare in NY so I have to live in a 1 bedroom shack...
« Reply #13 on: December 14, 2012, 02:33:54 AM »
Without reading the article, why weren't they filthy rich before they had kids?

Sounds like they may have had many years of high salaries and no child are costs.

noob515

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Re: $5000 a month for childcare in NY so I have to live in a 1 bedroom shack...
« Reply #14 on: December 14, 2012, 07:39:51 AM »
Without reading the article, why weren't they filthy rich before they had kids?

Sounds like they may have had many years of high salaries and no child are costs.

Ooh, that is a good question, gooki. 

The author says she is 35, and that she got married at 26 and waited 5 years to start having kids.  So if nothing else, they should've been paying off any debt and saving from when she was 26-31. And aside from the $5k/mo daycare costs, I imagine the bulk of their expenses is the 1100 sq.ft. brownstone they have in Brooklyn.  (and after giving the article another read, she doesn't make it clear whether or not they own or rent the brownstone).  it makes me a little sick to imagine how much that must cost a month. 

So you're right - there is no reason provided as to why they aren't better off financially.  Unfortunately, the article seems to talk more about issues related to having kids later in life, rather than the financial implications of having many children while living in NYC. 

Self-employed-swami

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Re: $5000 a month for childcare in NY so I have to live in a 1 bedroom shack...
« Reply #15 on: December 14, 2012, 04:36:05 PM »
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And 25?  I'd argue sooner also.

There are certain things that I'd say people should have some help with, that they might not see as quickly as others.  A first apartment if you stayed at home through college, first car in your name, maybe buying your first house.  I don't think people can't do these solo, but it's nice to have the knowledge of age to help you know what to look for, and what to run from.

My Mom died when I was 23.  It sucked the big one, for many reasons, like she missed my wedding the following year, but I'm not permanently stunted or anything.  I was an adult before that.  My sister was 18, and she's a little more affected by her not being here.