Author Topic: $2k a weekend, 18k a year on Soccer  (Read 11865 times)

bballfreakunc

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 33
$2k a weekend, 18k a year on Soccer
« on: September 28, 2015, 08:11:27 AM »
I'm a fan of Soccer, but I never realized how expensive and competitive youth soccer had gotten. Gone are the days of pickup games after school and playing in High School as being enough.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/soccer-bills-devoured-family-budget-103022480.html

AM43

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 146
Re: $2k a weekend, 18k a year on Soccer
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2015, 08:38:41 AM »
"Unlike playing on the local parks and rec team, the Jones boys compete in the elite world of American soccer clubs. For kids at this level, soccer isn’t just a game. It’s their lives. Top young athletes play year-round and practice as often as a dozen times a week. "


Big fan of soccer here as well and my older kid plays for a travel team.
Costing us little under 1K per season right now.
If the child is talented enough to make it to soccer academy teams or elite teams, yes it will get super expensive.
I think what that family paying is extreme and I would never consider investing my retirement funds into this. LOL


MgoSam

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3643
  • Location: Minnesota
Re: $2k a weekend, 18k a year on Soccer
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2015, 10:03:30 AM »
A grandmother I know through work raves about her grandson's soccer abilities. She thinks that he has what it takes to make a living on it. In a way I'm glad I was never that athletic, I know a few people that have tried to make it as an athlete and the difference between professional and semi-professional is staggeringly steep. One of the guys was maybe 250th in the world in tennis for a while until he called it quits to be a tennis coach...apparently only really the top 100 make enough to be comfortable. As a tennis coach, he can spend more time with his wife and kids and has an income higher and more stable than as a player.

mm1970

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6867
Re: $2k a weekend, 18k a year on Soccer
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2015, 10:51:20 AM »
Wow that's crazy!  But I know people in my town who are like that.

I struggle with $125 for a baseball season or $200 for swim lessons.

zephyr911

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3628
  • Age: 41
  • Location: Northern Alabama
  • I'm just happy to be here. \m/ ^_^ \m/
    • Pinhook Development LLC
Re: $2k a weekend, 18k a year on Soccer
« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2015, 11:20:21 AM »
Love that they're spending the exact same amount on Taco Bell as they're putting into their de facto college fund (the Roth). $200/mo for each. Hahaha

brainfart

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 185
Re: $2k a weekend, 18k a year on Soccer
« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2015, 12:19:35 PM »
One of my buddies in school was very good at soccer, he made it into he national team at age 15, became a professional at 18. He MADE money even as an early teen, he was paid to play for certain football clubs.

If someone charges you money for training, travel etc. then you're not good enough.

Kitsunegari

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 466
  • Location: Quebec, CA
  • Penny wise, pound foolish
Re: $2k a weekend, 18k a year on Soccer
« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2015, 12:24:39 PM »

Bobberth

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 311
Re: $2k a weekend, 18k a year on Soccer
« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2015, 01:38:23 PM »
I taught at a private all girls HS in St. Louis for 6 years.  We had a high level of sports.  Basically if you made the varsity team, you were pretty much assured of a college scholarship.  Somewhere.  That is the key.  Girls would end up going to small colleges nobody ever heard of in Mississippi (not to bash MS but we're talking 10-12 hours away).  I'm originally from Kansas and girls would go to a college there that I had never heard of just because they offered them a scholarship.   Scholarships were the only way they could attend college since there was no college savings after a lifetime of select teams and their expenses. Didn't matter what degrees were offered at the school, that was where they had to go because that is where they got a scholarship to.

It's doubtful that these boys make any of the California state schools' soccer teams.  If they're spending $18k a year on soccer, they could have easily saved to pay for all four of them to attend a state school that has a degree they are actually interested in and is probably decent in that field.  Instead they are spending the college fund on lottery tickets in hopes that they pay off. 

pbkmaine

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 8358
  • Age: 63
  • Location: The Villages, Florida
$2k a weekend, 18k a year on Soccer
« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2015, 02:10:11 PM »
My niece was good enough, after many years of elite soccer, to get a full athletic scholarship to a very good private college. Along the way she also acquired at least 3 concussions, which have led to migraines and other enduring physical problems.

MgoSam

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3643
  • Location: Minnesota
Re: $2k a weekend, 18k a year on Soccer
« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2015, 02:17:45 PM »
I taught at a private all girls HS in St. Louis for 6 years.


Scholarships were the only way they could attend college since there was no college savings after a lifetime of select teams and their expenses. Didn't matter what degrees were offered at the school, that was where they had to go because that is where they got a scholarship to.

Pretty crap planning imho. Spending thousands on a private high school (my guess is that many also went to private middle and elementary schools as well?), plus many camps and schools...for a smart that the girls may not actually enjoy or love, only to chance it on getting a scholarship to a school that they may not even want to go to, or it may not have any majors in the field that they want. Seems like a very low ROI. Plus, I imagine for the parents, the strain wasn't just financial, it also means a lot of time spent driving them from activities, and also pressuring them the thousands of times teenagers want to quit an activity (or guilt them into continuing on).

SwordGuy

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5778
  • Location: Fayetteville, NC
Re: $2k a weekend, 18k a year on Soccer
« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2015, 03:09:59 PM »
Elite level training in anything tends to be dreadfully expensive. My in laws remortgaged their house to fund my husband's music education. Twice.
How did that work out financially?

Jesstache

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 195
  • Location: CA
Re: $2k a weekend, 18k a year on Soccer
« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2015, 05:03:17 PM »
I played "elite" soccer growing up and my team won the national indoor soccer championship as well as the NY State cup and we even took a trip to Italy as a team and won that tournament too.  We traveled a lot and not a lot of the people on our team were well off in terms of money so our parents were very good at sharing rooms to save on costs.  Our club and team did A LOT of fund raising to pay for our trips as well.  Our (well off) coach didn't get paid (he just really loved soccer) and a lot of times he would help pay for some of the players fees or to travel whose families couldn't afford it. 

The soccer fees I see for LITTLE kids now is an outright scam and as I see it, the result of parents not wanting to be involved in having to do anything other than watch their kids play sports without having to contribute.  My area doesn't even have AYSO which is what I grew up playing until about middle school, where highs chool sports picked up and it was basically all volunteer based and the only thing parents paid for was the (cheap!) uniform and then provide the halftime snack once a season.

I did get a scholarship to play soccer in college.  I played two years before I was too burnt out to play any more (not to mention I could not stand the women's soccer team drama, holy moly) and, honestly, I probably wouldn't have even played those two years if not for the obligation I felt to my parents to make their investment and time for all of those years pay off. 

I was so relieved to quit the college soccer team and just focus on my education (Engineering).  Sports in college (in my experience) does not put your education first (no matter what they say) as long as your grades are high enough to be eligible to play (and that bar is pretty low).  We were regularly expected to miss whole days of classes quite regularly to travel for away games, which I did not like.

Furthermore, I went to a school that specialized in Aeronautics so the majority of degrees were focused on the aviation industry.  Aerospace Engineering, Pilot Training, Air Traffic Control, Aircraft Maintenance, Etc.  I absolutely did not understand the multitude of student athletes that attended the school entirely for the scholarship they offered that had no interest what so ever in aviation.  They generally majored in Communications, Aviation Business, or General Studies.

clarkevii

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 224
  • Age: 39
  • Location: Dallas TX
Re: $2k a weekend, 18k a year on Soccer
« Reply #12 on: September 28, 2015, 07:20:30 PM »
Good lawd this is so facepunch worthy that I almost put my fist straight into my iPad.

I live in Dallas Texas and work in education so I see stuff like this all the time. These people realize that they could save the 18k per year and sock it away for their children's financial future....right?

But, I think it's not about that. It's really all about being seen and having your kid in the "club" so you can achieve a status symbol. Being parting of this elite club gives parents the opportunity to hobnob with other like minded idiotic "Joneses"

markbike528CBX

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1152
  • Location: the Everbrown part of the Evergreen State (WA)
Re: $2k a weekend, 18k a year on Soccer
« Reply #13 on: September 28, 2015, 08:16:15 PM »
I thought my former hobby (motorcycle roadracing) was pretty facepunch-worthy.

No idea that you could spend that much on soccer! Played a bit, didn't cost much except for a few footblisters and bruises.

11years of racing,  2racebikes with prep, a couple of sets of race tires a year, fixes for innumerable crashes, hospital visit, travel 260 to 500miles roundtrip, fees galore and sum total? 41K= 3,700 per year, not weekend

zephyr911

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3628
  • Age: 41
  • Location: Northern Alabama
  • I'm just happy to be here. \m/ ^_^ \m/
    • Pinhook Development LLC
Re: $2k a weekend, 18k a year on Soccer
« Reply #14 on: September 28, 2015, 08:31:30 PM »
I thought my former hobby (motorcycle roadracing) was pretty facepunch-worthy.

No idea that you could spend that much on soccer! Played a bit, didn't cost much except for a few footblisters and bruises.

11years of racing,  2racebikes with prep, a couple of sets of race tires a year, fixes for innumerable crashes, hospital visit, travel 260 to 500miles roundtrip, fees galore and sum total? 41K= 3,700 per year, not weekend
Eh, x4 kids, add some inflation, it's right in line.

BigEasy

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 47
Re: $2k a weekend, 18k a year on Soccer
« Reply #15 on: September 28, 2015, 08:43:34 PM »
Per my previous post....

 Our daughter was a really good soccer player. We kept her in local school teams. When she went to high school, she was offered to play for all these so-called traveling and superstar teams...

 Because she had a real life, and had parents that were not living vicariously thru her,  she declined.

 In her senior year, she was offered a NCAA full ride scholarship to play soccer for a local university.  All of this due to playing for local school teams....

 She graduated with a BS degree debt  free.  She also had an academic scholarship.

 I'll bet  we didn't spend $500 total for her soccer related expenses. Some of these nutty soccer moms and their $70K Suburbans toting around their little future soccer darlings are quite a trip to watch!

Big Easy

gooki

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2382
  • Location: NZ
Re: $2k a weekend, 18k a year on Soccer
« Reply #16 on: September 28, 2015, 08:43:44 PM »
If someone charges you money for training, travel etc. then you're not good enough.

This times a hundred. Once you hit the top level the cost should no longer be on the individual player.

Money Mouse

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 61
  • Location: IL
Re: $2k a weekend, 18k a year on Soccer
« Reply #17 on: September 29, 2015, 07:39:34 AM »
Subtract two boys and change "soccer" to "baseball" and this is what my brother does for my nephews (although I don't think they travel quite as much as the folks in the article, I think they're only "on the road" about twice a season). The big difference is my brother is under NO illusions, the boys are both good players but they are not getting scholarships and are not headed to the big leagues (or even minor league). He's doing it because he and the boys love baseball, and love doing it. He also can afford it, all of their other financial ducks are quacking in a neat little row. My brother isn't counting on scholarships, he's already saving for it separately.

There is nothing wrong with "elite" sports if it's something your child loves. But you need to be able to afford it, and realize that it's more along the lines of a hobby than your kids ticket to scholarships, the pros, or the Olympics.

Urchina

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 198
Re: $2k a weekend, 18k a year on Soccer
« Reply #18 on: September 29, 2015, 07:48:58 AM »
We have neighbors who do this with their daughter and have since she was in the 5th grade.

The impact on their family life is significant. They haven't been home for the past eight weekends in a row, and they eat dinner as a family maybe twice a week.

My daughter plays soccer, and if she ever gets good enough for club sports we'll have a long and hard look before we head down that path. I don't think the money or time spent is in line with our family's values.

TheGrimSqueaker

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2183
  • Location: A desert wasteland, where none but the weird survive
  • www.theliveinlandlord.com
Re: $2k a weekend, 18k a year on Soccer
« Reply #19 on: September 29, 2015, 08:08:36 AM »
From a purely opportunistic perspective, though... this might be a worthwhile business to own.

JustGettingStarted1980

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 377
Re: $2k a weekend, 18k a year on Soccer
« Reply #20 on: September 29, 2015, 09:12:46 AM »
If someone charges you money for training, travel etc. then you're not good enough.

This times a hundred. Once you hit the top level the cost should no longer be on the individual player.

+1, If you're good enough, people will come to you, not the other way around.

kendallf

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1065
  • Age: 53
  • Location: Jacksonville, FL
Re: $2k a weekend, 18k a year on Soccer
« Reply #21 on: September 30, 2015, 12:52:09 PM »
If someone charges you money for training, travel etc. then you're not good enough.

This times a hundred. Once you hit the top level the cost should no longer be on the individual player.

+1, If you're good enough, people will come to you, not the other way around.

This is a popular sentiment it seems, but it is untrue (at least in the context of minors playing high school sports).  The NCAA has very strict rules about what colleges can pay for and when they can contact potential recruits.  Essentially, they can't even call you on the phone until your junior year of HS, and can offer no assistance other than travel expenses for an official visit before you're signed.

I don't care if you're an Olympic caliber athlete, nobody's coaching you for free.  Some minor exceptions might be private high schools with elite sports programs which can offer high school scholarships (such as Bolles HS here in Jacksonville which has produced several Olympians in swimming).

MgoSam

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3643
  • Location: Minnesota
Re: $2k a weekend, 18k a year on Soccer
« Reply #22 on: September 30, 2015, 01:00:08 PM »
If someone charges you money for training, travel etc. then you're not good enough.

This times a hundred. Once you hit the top level the cost should no longer be on the individual player.

+1, If you're good enough, people will come to you, not the other way around.

This is a popular sentiment it seems, but it is untrue (at least in the context of minors playing high school sports).  The NCAA has very strict rules about what colleges can pay for and when they can contact potential recruits.  Essentially, they can't even call you on the phone until your junior year of HS, and can offer no assistance other than travel expenses for an official visit before you're signed.

I don't care if you're an Olympic caliber athlete, nobody's coaching you for free.  Some minor exceptions might be private high schools with elite sports programs which can offer high school scholarships (such as Bolles HS here in Jacksonville which has produced several Olympians in swimming).

+1. To by an Olympic caliber athlete requires a significant investment for 99+% of them. Sure there are exceptions out there, but people like Michael Phelps are essentially a creation of talent, genetics, drive, and a shit ton of coaching/training. Not taking anything away from him, he still has to put in the time, but it isn't something that can just be done on your own.

Andre Agassi was trained by his dad to play tennis, but eventually he had to go to an expensive private school in Florida so that he could be coached more and could play against the best people his age in the country. It worked out well for him.

I don't know anyone that could become a top-level talent without some financial investments done on his/her immediate behalf. Sometimes, yeah, someone can catch the eye of a good coach who wants to turn that person into a great athlete, but almost nobody works for free.

cube.37

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 97
Re: $2k a weekend, 18k a year on Soccer
« Reply #23 on: September 30, 2015, 01:38:25 PM »
If someone charges you money for training, travel etc. then you're not good enough.

This times a hundred. Once you hit the top level the cost should no longer be on the individual player.

+1, If you're good enough, people will come to you, not the other way around.

This is a popular sentiment it seems, but it is untrue (at least in the context of minors playing high school sports).  The NCAA has very strict rules about what colleges can pay for and when they can contact potential recruits.  Essentially, they can't even call you on the phone until your junior year of HS, and can offer no assistance other than travel expenses for an official visit before you're signed.

I don't care if you're an Olympic caliber athlete, nobody's coaching you for free.  Some minor exceptions might be private high schools with elite sports programs which can offer high school scholarships (such as Bolles HS here in Jacksonville which has produced several Olympians in swimming).

+1. To by an Olympic caliber athlete requires a significant investment for 99+% of them. Sure there are exceptions out there, but people like Michael Phelps are essentially a creation of talent, genetics, drive, and a shit ton of coaching/training. Not taking anything away from him, he still has to put in the time, but it isn't something that can just be done on your own.

Andre Agassi was trained by his dad to play tennis, but eventually he had to go to an expensive private school in Florida so that he could be coached more and could play against the best people his age in the country. It worked out well for him.

I don't know anyone that could become a top-level talent without some financial investments done on his/her immediate behalf. Sometimes, yeah, someone can catch the eye of a good coach who wants to turn that person into a great athlete, but almost nobody works for free.

+1. My parents put my siblings and I through "elite" tennis. It was more of a hobby for me. My little sister was the most intense about it and actually got/is very good. She got to the point where she was semi-sponsored by Wilson through highschool - unlimited rackets for personal use, stringing, balls, shoes, clothes, etc. Even then though, the coaching was not free, and to be competitive in the elite scene you need top-tier coaching, which is by far the greatest expense. Can easily go from $100/hr+ at atleast 10hrs of practice per week.

brainfart

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 185
Re: $2k a weekend, 18k a year on Soccer
« Reply #24 on: September 30, 2015, 11:46:28 PM »
Quote
I don't know anyone that could become a top-level talent without some financial investments done on his/her immediate behalf. Sometimes, yeah, someone can catch the eye of a good coach who wants to turn that person into a great athlete, but almost nobody works for free.

I do. All the athletes outside the US, where sports hasn't been taken over by schools, colleges and universities.
Sure it costs a lot of money to turn someone into a world class athlete, but you usually don't pay for it all out of your own pocket, usually someone else does it.

MrsPete

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3519
Re: $2k a weekend, 18k a year on Soccer
« Reply #25 on: October 01, 2015, 08:22:50 AM »
I know parents who pay this kind of money, and they justify it saying, "But he's sure to get a scholarship!"  The vast majority do not. 

On the other hand, I know a few families for whom IT DID work out -- I know a family who has three sons, all professional baseball players.  I know more than a few kids who've been given full college educations.  I taught two kids who went on to the NFL.  It works out for enough of them that the rest keep saying, "Yes, yes!  We will put all our money and hopes into sports." 

It's not true that if you're good enough, you won't have to pay for training.  Maybe in a few sports for a few individuals who know how to "play the game" and get themselves out there in front of coaches, but it's not a general truth. 

As for this family in this article, over-spending on sports isn't their only issue:
- They have FOUR kids.  Everyone knows FOUR will be expensive.
- They're choosing to travel with the whole family.  Not all families attend every event.
- They're not choosing to economize on the trips:  Rental cars, meals out, amusement park tickets in addition to the games.  Essentially, they're making the most expensive choices at every turn. 

EricP

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 477
Re: $2k a weekend, 18k a year on Soccer
« Reply #26 on: October 01, 2015, 08:50:11 AM »
Quote
I don't know anyone that could become a top-level talent without some financial investments done on his/her immediate behalf. Sometimes, yeah, someone can catch the eye of a good coach who wants to turn that person into a great athlete, but almost nobody works for free.

I do. All the athletes outside the US, where sports hasn't been taken over by schools, colleges and universities.
Sure it costs a lot of money to turn someone into a world class athlete, but you usually don't pay for it all out of your own pocket, usually someone else does it.

That is the reality outside of the US where profits can be made off transfer fees and the like, but that isn't the case in America and thus has no relevance to a family in America.  Sure, if the kids were good enough they could probably ship them off to Britain to play for Leeds United's youth team or something like that, but I'm willing to bet they don't want their kids on another continent. 

Now, I'm not saying they NEED to be in travel soccer leagues to get college scholarships, but they're not going to be on top tier rec leagues (meaning non-high school) without paying for their own travel and the like.  However, if they are actually top tier athletes that deserve college scholarships they can just play in the local rec league and the high school team and they'll get discovered.  There's no real need to play for travel teams if you're actually a top tier athlete, but I could be wrong about that as I'm not entirely sure where college teams put their scouting efforts at.  I was a swimmer so it's a lot more cut and dry, if you're times are good enough you'll get offers from schools, if not, then you don't.

I'm a red panda

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 8011
  • Location: United States
Re: $2k a weekend, 18k a year on Soccer
« Reply #27 on: October 01, 2015, 08:53:30 AM »
$2k a weekend, 18k a year?

Are they only playing 9 weekends? I don't understand these numbers.

(The cost- absolutely- it is not hard to spend that in an elite sport; and soccer isn't even one of the expensive ones. For those saying if you are good enough- someone will pay for it; well, you have to get to the good enough stage on your own dime first!  But less than $20k a year for an elite seems downright cheap: put a kid through elite figure skating or dressage for example! Yes, they might get their boots/blades for free once they have been to nationals a few times, but to make enough for training expenses to be covered, you need to be one of the absolute best in the nation/world!)

aasdfadsf

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 113
Re: $2k a weekend, 18k a year on Soccer
« Reply #28 on: October 01, 2015, 09:51:22 AM »
Even at $18k a year, with their income, this should not be such a huge deal. As usual, the real story is not spending on one particular thing that makes their lives interesting, it's what they blow on everything else and never bother accounting for. But pity them!

LiveLean

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 765
  • Location: Central Florida
    • ToLiveLean
Re: $2k a weekend, 18k a year on Soccer
« Reply #29 on: October 01, 2015, 10:51:10 AM »
I'm not a soccer hater. In fact, I love soccer played at the highest level -- World Cup, Euro leagues, even US Division 1 colleges.

But I hate the American youth culture of soccer. Hate the parents involved. All of it. Why it's become the default sport of choice is anyone's guess...Actually, the reason is that parents just have to start their kids playing sports at the earliest age possible since they no longer let their kids outside to play and schedule them 24/7 from birth. So the easiest thing is to put their 3-year-olds in soccer, which consists of 20 kids running at the ball. Sure, some advance to travel ball like these parents' kids, but 90 percent drop out of soccer by 13. The few that make it get to college soccer get a 20 percent "scholarship" to be slaves to an athletic department, which will encourage them to major in the weakest major in the always-marketable liberal arts curriculum.

So, by all means, keep paying thousands for your future Mias and Becks to kick the ball around. Better off buying lottery tickets.

zephyr911

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3628
  • Age: 41
  • Location: Northern Alabama
  • I'm just happy to be here. \m/ ^_^ \m/
    • Pinhook Development LLC
Re: $2k a weekend, 18k a year on Soccer
« Reply #30 on: October 01, 2015, 11:36:18 AM »
$2k a weekend, 18k a year?

Are they only playing 9 weekends? I don't understand these numbers.

I'm assuming they actually play tournaments less than a 10-hour drive away from home on some weekends. The one described was doubtless a deliberately selected extreme example.

FIREby35

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 615
Re: $2k a weekend, 18k a year on Soccer
« Reply #31 on: October 02, 2015, 07:46:57 PM »
Quote
I don't know anyone that could become a top-level talent without some financial investments done on his/her immediate behalf. Sometimes, yeah, someone can catch the eye of a good coach who wants to turn that person into a great athlete, but almost nobody works for free.

I do. All the athletes outside the US, where sports hasn't been taken over by schools, colleges and universities.
Sure it costs a lot of money to turn someone into a world class athlete, but you usually don't pay for it all out of your own pocket, usually someone else does it.

I've got to agree with the people who say if you are good enough, you don't pay (at least in the mid-west, 12-15 years ago and for basketball). I went to lots of tournaments all over the country for free. Our team had the top 12 players from our city (approx. 1 million people in our region). We had sponsors. Everyone got a scholarship somewhere. With the coaching, the top High School coaches worked with our team and contacted all the local colleges. Believe it or not, I am, errrr...WAS, a slam dunk champion :)

Also, truly elite talent doesn't need expensive coaching. Natural talent and an internal desire take care of 90% of it. In fact, at the really, really elite level the natural talent is insurmountable. The difference between me and some of the really great people I played with/against was never going to be bridged by coaching or effort -it was raw talent. Those guys were unbelievable in ways you can't understand until you experience it.

Finally, I agree that being an athlete ain't all its cracked up to be. One of my favorite things about my wife is that she had no idea what was going on with the sports stuff because she was a recent immigrant. With my kids, I will not be emphasizing sports. There is no need to wrap your identity into something that only has meaning as a metaphor for the rest of life.

Purple Economist

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 95
Re: $2k a weekend, 18k a year on Soccer
« Reply #32 on: October 02, 2015, 10:31:47 PM »
Quote
I don't know anyone that could become a top-level talent without some financial investments done on his/her immediate behalf. Sometimes, yeah, someone can catch the eye of a good coach who wants to turn that person into a great athlete, but almost nobody works for free.

I do. All the athletes outside the US, where sports hasn't been taken over by schools, colleges and universities.
Sure it costs a lot of money to turn someone into a world class athlete, but you usually don't pay for it all out of your own pocket, usually someone else does it.

I've got to agree with the people who say if you are good enough, you don't pay (at least in the mid-west, 12-15 years ago and for basketball). I went to lots of tournaments all over the country for free. Our team had the top 12 players from our city (approx. 1 million people in our region). We had sponsors. Everyone got a scholarship somewhere. With the coaching, the top High School coaches worked with our team and contacted all the local colleges. Believe it or not, I am, errrr...WAS, a slam dunk champion :)

Also, truly elite talent doesn't need expensive coaching. Natural talent and an internal desire take care of 90% of it. In fact, at the really, really elite level the natural talent is insurmountable. The difference between me and some of the really great people I played with/against was never going to be bridged by coaching or effort -it was raw talent. Those guys were unbelievable in ways you can't understand until you experience it.

Finally, I agree that being an athlete ain't all its cracked up to be. One of my favorite things about my wife is that she had no idea what was going on with the sports stuff because she was a recent immigrant. With my kids, I will not be emphasizing sports. There is no need to wrap your identity into something that only has meaning as a metaphor for the rest of life.

It's not just this post, but the sentiment here is generally true of a lot of posts and people's opinions in general.  In my life, in my state (or city or country), this is how it worked.  Ergo, this is how it works everywhere.

I live the in the US, a country with 325 million people and 50 states.  I'm sure everything is the same as it is for me in every single location and for every single person.

gooki

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2382
  • Location: NZ
Re: $2k a weekend, 18k a year on Soccer
« Reply #33 on: October 03, 2015, 02:54:26 AM »
Or maybe another person just shared their opinion, backed it up with their life experience, and told a damn good story. Thanks for sharing.

FIREby35

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 615
Re: $2k a weekend, 18k a year on Soccer
« Reply #34 on: October 03, 2015, 07:11:03 AM »
Or maybe another person just shared their opinion, backed it up with their life experience, and told a damn good story. Thanks for sharing.

Note that I also did qualify my opinion based on 1) geographic location 2) time frame and 3) sport.

Thanks for the internet high five ;)

Paul der Krake

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4608
  • Age: 11
  • Location: USA
Re: $2k a weekend, 18k a year on Soccer
« Reply #35 on: October 03, 2015, 07:50:51 AM »
The scholarship argument is just like the mortgage deduction excuse for buying overpriced homes. People have made their decisions long ago that having an athlete child is something they want, there is no real math or rationalization here, just emotions.

There is ocean-sized gap in skills between the various levels of any competitive sport. Every year you hear some nonsense about how the Alabama football team could beat the Jacksonville Jaguars or whoever is the worst NFL team at that point. Ha. Ha. Ha.




TheGrimSqueaker

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2183
  • Location: A desert wasteland, where none but the weird survive
  • www.theliveinlandlord.com
Re: $2k a weekend, 18k a year on Soccer
« Reply #36 on: October 03, 2015, 09:25:45 PM »
Finally, I agree that being an athlete ain't all its cracked up to be. One of my favorite things about my wife is that she had no idea what was going on with the sports stuff because she was a recent immigrant. With my kids, I will not be emphasizing sports. There is no need to wrap your identity into something that only has meaning as a metaphor for the rest of life.

Hopefully you get a choice in the matter. Kids have their own ways of deciding what's important to them, but as a parent I find all I can decide is what I do or don't spend money on.

I was born State-side, left at age 2 when my family moved, and didn't move back until my twenties. (I like to call myself an "anchor baby" just to piss people off). One of the major differences I noticed about life State-side is the obsession with sports, particularly school sports, even at the high school level. The culture is pretty much saturated with it. Some areas are worse than others, but overall sports are taken seriously at an extremely young age.

Has anyone noticed how some amateur sports have been built into mini-industries? People actually make a good living providing gear, coaching, venues, private instruction, team paraphernalia, and competition opportunities, if enough other people pay for the privilege of competing. The gold standard appears to be getting a sport into a school. Once it's established, parents and athletic departments unconsciously accept the "need" to raise money for whatever facilities, gear, tournament fees, and other related participation expenses exist. Suddenly, a sport that used to cost relatively little suddenly costs a whole lot.

Kids from the favela in Rio kick soccer balls around all the time, and some of them really do live the rags-to-riches story and go pro. They appear to do it without a soccer mom spending $18k a year on them. There's some kind of tryout system.

ahoy

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 147
Re: $2k a weekend, 18k a year on Soccer
« Reply #37 on: October 04, 2015, 04:59:51 AM »
It's an absurd amount of money to spend.  If it was my family we would ship them back to the UK (where this family is from) for their higher education.   They are English/Welsh, they don't need to spend crazy amounts on College education or try to get scholarships that maybe not be forthcoming.   

sleepyguy

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 671
  • Location: Oakville, Ontario
Re: $2k a weekend, 18k a year on Soccer
« Reply #38 on: October 04, 2015, 05:37:35 AM »
Andre Agassi is a great COUNTER argument to your point, lol.  He played a alot in LV at his dad's tennis courts at a casino... word spread that he was amazingly talented and he got a FREE ride at  Botterilli academy.  They knew he would succeed so they coached and trained him pretty much for free... think is parents had to pay for food/travel , that was it.  It was a win/win, the academy took a gamble that he was be as good as he did... made a great name for themselves (although Pete and Courier also trained there at the same time).  Agassi and Sharapova put them on the map imho, no kid wanted to be samparas... they wanted to be a rebel like Agassi, lol.

Back on topic... i assume these parents think their kids are going pro or something?  Wonder if they've done the 'math' on  the % of making a living out of it?  Guess it could parlay into soccer coaching or gym teacher, no idea to be honest.  Some high % employment level with a sustainable career, not even sure the parents are looking into that... just scholarship, pro career... who knows.  They are dumping in insane amount into it.

If someone charges you money for training, travel etc. then you're not good enough.

This times a hundred. Once you hit the top level the cost should no longer be on the individual player.

+1, If you're good enough, people will come to you, not the other way around.

This is a popular sentiment it seems, but it is untrue (at least in the context of minors playing high school sports).  The NCAA has very strict rules about what colleges can pay for and when they can contact potential recruits.  Essentially, they can't even call you on the phone until your junior year of HS, and can offer no assistance other than travel expenses for an official visit before you're signed.

I don't care if you're an Olympic caliber athlete, nobody's coaching you for free.  Some minor exceptions might be private high schools with elite sports programs which can offer high school scholarships (such as Bolles HS here in Jacksonville which has produced several Olympians in swimming).

+1. To by an Olympic caliber athlete requires a significant investment for 99+% of them. Sure there are exceptions out there, but people like Michael Phelps are essentially a creation of talent, genetics, drive, and a shit ton of coaching/training. Not taking anything away from him, he still has to put in the time, but it isn't something that can just be done on your own.

Andre Agassi was trained by his dad to play tennis, but eventually he had to go to an expensive private school in Florida so that he could be coached more and could play against the best people his age in the country. It worked out well for him.

I don't know anyone that could become a top-level talent without some financial investments done on his/her immediate behalf. Sometimes, yeah, someone can catch the eye of a good coach who wants to turn that person into a great athlete, but almost nobody works for free.

FIREby35

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 615
Re: $2k a weekend, 18k a year on Soccer
« Reply #39 on: October 04, 2015, 07:37:28 AM »
Finally, I agree that being an athlete ain't all its cracked up to be. One of my favorite things about my wife is that she had no idea what was going on with the sports stuff because she was a recent immigrant. With my kids, I will not be emphasizing sports. There is no need to wrap your identity into something that only has meaning as a metaphor for the rest of life.

Hopefully you get a choice in the matter. Kids have their own ways of deciding what's important to them, but as a parent I find all I can decide is what I do or don't spend money on.

I agree with you on that. I actually hope they do enjoy sports because I think they are a net positive when they are not over-emphasized. Good for your health, fills up your time, learn some competitive traits. But, as this article illustrates, some people (a lot of people) go overboard. And certainly, the idea that spending that amount of money is an "investment" rather than a lottery ticket is absurd.

It's actually funny, I have a 4 year old son. I already get people who know about my basketball past asking "when are you going to get him started." They also always tell me about the select team stuff and about who's kids are doing what. It's always about the kids of locally known past players trying to relive the glory of their high school and college athletics. In contrast, I consider past athletic times a slightly annoying period where the only thing people knew about me was that I played sports. The actual sports were fun, but having everyone see me only as an athlete wasn't fun. I like having a "larger" identity after sports which, again, is why I won't be over-emphasizing sports for my children.

MgoSam

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3643
  • Location: Minnesota
Re: $2k a weekend, 18k a year on Soccer
« Reply #40 on: October 04, 2015, 08:52:55 AM »
Then there's this article. Essentially it states that the estimated cost of training a tennis player costs about $400k.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2011-01-26/budding-sharapovas-cost-parents-400-000-as-teen-tennis-champs-disappear


TheGrimSqueaker

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2183
  • Location: A desert wasteland, where none but the weird survive
  • www.theliveinlandlord.com
Re: $2k a weekend, 18k a year on Soccer
« Reply #41 on: October 04, 2015, 11:59:45 PM »
Then there's this article. Essentially it states that the estimated cost of training a tennis player costs about $400k.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2011-01-26/budding-sharapovas-cost-parents-400-000-as-teen-tennis-champs-disappear

Nobody plans it this way so far as I can tell, but every time there's a massive barrier to entry that requires substantial expenditure of resources, the sport ends up being used as a way for one generation of insiders or privileged people to pass on the control of the domain to their kiddos. Kind of like the way the English used to think of the genteel class... if it used to take three generations to make a gentleman, should it also take two generations to make a professional athlete?

FIREby35

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 615
Re: $2k a weekend, 18k a year on Soccer
« Reply #42 on: October 05, 2015, 05:12:28 PM »
Yeah, I was thinking this has to do with the sport. For example, basketball is not like this. As a counterpoint to Andre Agassi there is guy like Lebron James who Played basketball at a local school and had shoe companies recruiting him when he was in High School. I can see Olympic sports being different than the ones with larger participation.

Purple Economist

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 95
Re: $2k a weekend, 18k a year on Soccer
« Reply #43 on: October 07, 2015, 09:26:37 AM »
Or maybe another person just shared their opinion, backed it up with their life experience, and told a damn good story. Thanks for sharing.

Yeah, I'm not really sure why I had that reaction to the post.  It was clearly a misguided, overreaction on my part.  My apologies.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2015, 11:50:36 AM by Purple Economist »

moneyandmillennials

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 41
    • Money and Millennials: An Illustrated Advice Book
Re: $2k a weekend, 18k a year on Soccer
« Reply #44 on: November 08, 2015, 06:47:27 PM »
I'm a fan of Soccer, but I never realized how expensive and competitive youth soccer had gotten. Gone are the days of pickup games after school and playing in High School as being enough.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/soccer-bills-devoured-family-budget-103022480.html

I can't see the article but I do think it's pretty ridiculous for parents who can't afford it to spend absurd sums on their children's hobbies when the likelihood of the child going pro is extremely small. 

of course parents always think there's a chance when it comes to their own kids. 

MgoSam

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3643
  • Location: Minnesota
Re: $2k a weekend, 18k a year on Soccer
« Reply #45 on: November 08, 2015, 08:16:30 PM »
I can somewhat understand if someone is an elite talent spending that kind of money, but $18k is near what my annual expenses are.  I just cannot fathom spending that much on a kid's activity.

YoungGranny

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 675
  • Age: 29
Re: $2k a weekend, 18k a year on Soccer
« Reply #46 on: November 09, 2015, 11:11:17 AM »
Quote
He is not exaggerating. Even with a healthy $146,000 in combined annual income—most from Steve’s $126,000 Intel salary—the family barely makes ends meet. With all their expenses, they have managed to tuck away only $9,500 for emergencies. Perhaps more ominous for their long-term financial health: They have saved just $7,000 for college.

They've saved a total of 16,500 between emergencies and a college fund.....but they're 43 and 47 where is all of their money?!?! They didn't even have kids until their late 20's/early30's so they should have been able to sock away some money then. Seems like they've had spending problems forever and their kids are just another excuse of not being able to save in a long line of excuses. If you have no money but make well over $100k you definitely need a few face-punches.

YoungGranny

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 675
  • Age: 29
Re: $2k a weekend, 18k a year on Soccer
« Reply #47 on: November 09, 2015, 11:26:16 AM »
Quote
He is not exaggerating. Even with a healthy $146,000 in combined annual income—most from Steve’s $126,000 Intel salary—the family barely makes ends meet. With all their expenses, they have managed to tuck away only $9,500 for emergencies. Perhaps more ominous for their long-term financial health: They have saved just $7,000 for college.

They've saved a total of 16,500 between emergencies and a college fund.....but they're 43 and 47 where is all of their money?!?! They didn't even have kids until their late 20's/early30's so they should have been able to sock away some money then. Seems like they've had spending problems forever and their kids are just another excuse of not being able to save in a long line of excuses. If you have no money but make well over $100k you definitely need a few face-punches.

Whoooops totally realized they discussed retirement savings/equity further down in the article. Note to self: read entire article before raging.

Kaspian

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1536
  • Location: Canada
    • My Necronomicon of Badassity
Re: $2k a weekend, 18k a year on Soccer
« Reply #48 on: November 09, 2015, 12:27:42 PM »
What soccer club cost in my town in the 70s:   $15/month + the cost of one T-shirt

We didn't have multiple "leagues", photo day, professional jerseys, cleats, color-coordinated striped socks, or any of that other nonsense.  Know why?  Because we were 6 years-old!!  Ersh...  As long as there was a ball and an air pump we could play shirts versus skins.  Does everybody actually think their kid is gonna bend it like Beckham now or something?  It's all a racket.

clarkfan1979

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1889
  • Age: 40
  • Location: Pueblo, CO
Re: $2k a weekend, 18k a year on Soccer
« Reply #49 on: November 09, 2015, 07:52:00 PM »
I was in the parking lot of a San Diego Padres game in 2000 (Old Stadium) drinking some beers before a game. Some 10 year old kid was selling overpriced peanuts for a Soccer Trip to Europe (from San Diego). After hearing that I purposely didn't buy any peanuts.