Author Topic: Zero Net Energy / Carbon Neutral Households?  (Read 2860 times)

BuildingFrugalHabits

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Zero Net Energy / Carbon Neutral Households?
« on: November 03, 2018, 10:38:27 AM »
Hey All, A longheld goal of mine has been to transition our household away from fossil fuels.  Ideally, we would have a home designed for efficiency and properly sited for passive solar gain etc.  However, that is not in the budget at this point.  So for the past 8 years, we've produced more than 100% of our electricity from our rooftop PV system and we have a surplus of power. 

However, we still burn gasoline to drive and nat. gas to heat the house and water.  It seems totally feasible to replace our vehicles with EVs or at least plug-in hybrids like the Prius Prime when the time comes.  So that leaves home heating.  I'm thinking about a heat pump as a potential replacement for central AC which could provide carbon-free heat during the shoulder seasons and keeping the existing furnace in place for when temps are below 32F.  We would need to probably double our solar array to go 100% electric and completely ditch the gas furnace.  Still doable but not sure if the numbers pencil out.  Another option is upgrading the furnace to a 99% efficient model.  I'm curious to hear about other's experience and strategies.  Has anyone achieved zero net energy in a conventionally constructed home located in a region with 4 seasons? 

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Re: Zero Net Energy / Carbon Neutral Households?
« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2018, 11:24:54 AM »
An Excerpt froma man who built a passive house in the late 70's.
"(Harold)Orr realized they were approaching the problem from the wrong direction. So they flipped the idea on its ear — the answer was to radically reduce the home’s demand for energy.

“Draw a pie as the total consumption of a house,” says Orr. “You divide it in three equal parts. One third of it is losses through the windows, the walls, and the ceiling. One third is heat loss through the basement. And the other third is air leakage.”

So you insulate the heck out of the walls, ceiling and the foundation—problem solved!"

With a passive house you can either increase supply of power or decrease demand. His house was built without a furnace, in a far colder climate then yours. Approach the problem by seeing if you can reduce demand, can you add a layer of insulation to your exterior walls? Presto, that cuts our furnace bill down. Add insulation to the attic, another 10% reduction. Its almost always cheaper to add insulation before adding PV to heat. After that's done, if you still want to switch the cost of the PV is also reduced in half (since your demand is so low).

Swithching to PV heat from Natural gas is not usually economical. I ran the numbers for my house and it would cost around $30,000 for the solar, and save $700/year. At that point I stopped crunching numbers. On a new construction though, it actually can be cheaper since you can skip the gas hookup, furnace install, and some of the HVAC system costs.

sol

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Re: Zero Net Energy / Carbon Neutral Households?
« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2018, 01:10:29 PM »
BFH,

I have gone down this path, and am a few years ahead of you.

Four years ago we bought a house built in the late 90s.  It's in the coastal PNW and is reasonably well insulated using modern construction techniques, including double-pane windows and adequate attic insulation, but is not purpose built to be energy efficient by any means.  It had an 85% afue gas furnace.

We installed 7500 watts of solar on the roof.  I wrote a thread about it, but the short version is that they have already paid for themselves in 4 years, and generate more power than our household uses.  You can read all about it in that thread if you're interested in the details.

Since we suddenly had all of this extra electricity that was just going back to the grid at retail rates, we bought an electric car.  I wrote a thread about it, but the short version is that the car not only saves us money, it removed the largest remaining source of carbon emissions from our household.  From both financial and environmental perspective, there was no better use of our surplus electricity than displacing gasoline.

We were still heating our house with that 85% gas furnace, so we replaced it with a heat pump.  It's between 200 and 400% efficient for both heating and cooling, and removed the next largest carbon emission source from our household and replaced it with electricity.  I wrote a thread about it, but I'm not sure where it is anymore.  It might be linked in one of those two threads above.  edit: I found it, here you go.

After the addition of the EV and the heat pump, we're now barely producing more electricity than our household of five uses on an annual basis, but I'm expecting a larger surplus after my kids fly the coop.  We are still using some natural gas, for our water heater.  We still use some gasoline, for our infrequently used minivan and the lawnmower.  We cook with electric, and I actually prefer the electric glass top stoves to cooking with gas.  Gas stoves pump moisture and combustion products into your house.

We also had the house air-tested for gaps when we had the heat pump put in, and did the usual sealing around outlets and door cracks.  We have not added any new insulation to the attic or walls or floors.

The house has great southern exposure with no shade, so we get enormous solar gain the winter and our panels have a clear view of the sky all day all year.  In the summers we block all of those windows with shades, but it still get hot without AC.  Solar gain works both ways.

All of these changes required large amounts of money out of pocket up front, and even though they have paid for themselves by now there is a common argument in some circles that environmentally conscious folks should pay for carbon offsets and continue to burn carbon themselves, because it is more cost effective on a per-pound of CO2 basis to pay someone to plant trees than to replace your furnace.  I find that argument self-defeating, though, because ultimately we will need to reduce our consumption somehow, not just increase our carbon capture rates.  Paying to reduce your personal emissions is a very real and immediate step in the right direction, and I think that setting that example for your neighbors and your family, to make real change, is worth the cost.  It's always easier for wealthy westerners to buy indulgences and make no changes to their lifestyles, but I'd have trouble sleeping at night with that half-assed solution.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2018, 08:41:05 AM by sol »

BudgetSlasher

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Re: Zero Net Energy / Carbon Neutral Households?
« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2018, 01:17:08 PM »
Hey All, A longheld goal of mine has been to transition our household away from fossil fuels.  Ideally, we would have a home designed for efficiency and properly sited for passive solar gain etc.  However, that is not in the budget at this point.  So for the past 8 years, we've produced more than 100% of our electricity from our rooftop PV system and we have a surplus of power. 

However, we still burn gasoline to drive and nat. gas to heat the house and water.  It seems totally feasible to replace our vehicles with EVs or at least plug-in hybrids like the Prius Prime when the time comes.  So that leaves home heating.  I'm thinking about a heat pump as a potential replacement for central AC which could provide carbon-free heat during the shoulder seasons and keeping the existing furnace in place for when temps are below 32F.  We would need to probably double our solar array to go 100% electric and completely ditch the gas furnace.  Still doable but not sure if the numbers pencil out.  Another option is upgrading the furnace to a 99% efficient model.  I'm curious to hear about other's experience and strategies.  Has anyone achieved zero net energy in a conventionally constructed home located in a region with 4 seasons?

We haven't done it yet, but I am planning out a multi year play to go a low as practicable.

Do you have manual J calculations for your house (BTU needs) and what the outside temperature gets to?

Both LG (LGRED) and Mitsubishi (H2i) make mini-split style (heat pump) systems with a vertical air handler that operate much lower than 32F at rated out, put still output something like 70% around 7F, and still run in heat pump mode down to the negative teens. They can also be fitted with backup electric resistive elements; depending on the model they seem to cap out at either 10kw (~34,000 BTU) or 15kw (~51,000 BTU) which can run with or without the heat pump functioning.

If you know how many BTUs/hr you need you could convert that into KW and look at electric furnaces (seemingly more common in Canada). And if you know how much fuel you currently use you can convert that into kWh. And price out the cost of the heat pump with associated solar vs the cost of the electric furnace with associated solar. Of course if you were also going to be adding dehumidification and or AC that would make the heat pump/mini-split (at least) less costly.

nick663

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Re: Zero Net Energy / Carbon Neutral Households?
« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2018, 03:45:55 PM »
After the addition of the EV and the heat pump, we're now barely producing more electricity than our household of five uses on an annual basis, but I'm expecting a larger surplus after my kids fly the coop.  We are still using some natural gas, for our water heater.  We still use some gasoline, for our infrequently used minivan and the lawnmower.  We cook with electric, and I actually prefer the electric glass top stoves to cooking with gas.  Gas stoves pump moisture and combustion products into your house.
Any reason you haven't gone to an electric water heater yet?  You're probably a decade ahead of me on this but our water heater is due for replacement soon.  Was thinking of switching from gas to electric when it's replaced because our long term plan involves solar.

monarda

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Re: Zero Net Energy / Carbon Neutral Households?
« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2018, 04:02:05 PM »
After the addition of the EV and the heat pump, we're now barely producing more electricity than our household of five uses on an annual basis, but I'm expecting a larger surplus after my kids fly the coop.  We are still using some natural gas, for our water heater.  We still use some gasoline, for our infrequently used minivan and the lawnmower.  We cook with electric, and I actually prefer the electric glass top stoves to cooking with gas.  Gas stoves pump moisture and combustion products into your house.
Any reason you haven't gone to an electric water heater yet?  You're probably a decade ahead of me on this but our water heater is due for replacement soon.  Was thinking of switching from gas to electric when it's replaced because our long term plan involves solar.
And when you have an electric water heater, maybe have it run only at night? We have time-of-use metering and run our water heater on a timer at $0.04/KWh night rate. We've never run out of hot water.

BudgetSlasher

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Re: Zero Net Energy / Carbon Neutral Households?
« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2018, 04:37:11 PM »
After the addition of the EV and the heat pump, we're now barely producing more electricity than our household of five uses on an annual basis, but I'm expecting a larger surplus after my kids fly the coop.  We are still using some natural gas, for our water heater.  We still use some gasoline, for our infrequently used minivan and the lawnmower.  We cook with electric, and I actually prefer the electric glass top stoves to cooking with gas.  Gas stoves pump moisture and combustion products into your house.
Any reason you haven't gone to an electric water heater yet?  You're probably a decade ahead of me on this but our water heater is due for replacement soon.  Was thinking of switching from gas to electric when it's replaced because our long term plan involves solar.

We use an 80 gallon heat pump water heater running in heat pump only mode, set to ~138F with an inline tempering valve set to 120F. Cheaper to heat than an electric plus it takes a load off the dehumidifier. We've never run out of water; we have had the system complain about getting low on days a lot of laundry and dishes have been done, but never felt it.

Depending in incentives it can be more expensive than a plain electric water heater, but generally an heat pump with associated solar will be less than electric with associated solar (both water and dehumidifier, if applicable).


sol

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Re: Zero Net Energy / Carbon Neutral Households?
« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2018, 05:21:54 PM »
Any reason you haven't gone to an electric water heater yet?  You're probably a decade ahead of me on this but our water heater is due for replacement soon.  Was thinking of switching from gas to electric when it's replaced because our long term plan involves solar.

I have not looked at heat pump water heaters, but the finances of an electric water heater are much harder to work out just because resistive heating is a stupidly inefficient way to heat up water.  Even accounting for the stupid monthly connection fee I pay for natural gas for the sole purpose of my water heater, we would pay more to run an electric water heater for all five of us (including teenagers) than we do for our current inefficient gas water heater.  Natural gas is just amazingly cheap per unit of energy you get out of it, once you've done all the hard work of installing a piped delivery system. 

I have even considered having a gas fireplace installed, to make use of the existing gas line, just for the resiliency of having multiple heating options in the event of a power outage or natural disaster.  We also have a gas furnace installed on top of our heat pump, in place of the air handler you would normally get with a heat pump, which serves the same purpose (blowing air) but also has the option of firing up burners.  It is more expensive to run than the heat pump until the temperature gets down to like 14 degrees F, which basically never happens around here, but having it available gives us flexibility to chooser our heat source in the future.  (The furnace will not function if the power is out, though, hence the gas fireplace idea.)

It's all well and good to make environmental choices today, but if there is ever a major catastrophe and my family is in danger, I will absolutely go back to burning carbon (and cutting down trees and hunting animals) to ensure their survival.  It's kind of the same argument I have about veganism (I am not a vegan).  We just don't need to eat animals anymore because we have such an efficient and abundant food system that offers so many choices, but if that ever broke down I would absolutely start eating neighborhood cats if I had to.  I am not so committed to veganism that I would yank out my incisors, and converting my house to full electric-only everything and then shutting off my gas line feels kind of like that.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2018, 06:38:04 PM by sol »

Syonyk

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Re: Zero Net Energy / Carbon Neutral Households?
« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2018, 09:50:50 PM »
I'm thinking about a heat pump as a potential replacement for central AC which could provide carbon-free heat during the shoulder seasons and keeping the existing furnace in place for when temps are below 32F.

Why 32F?  Heat pumps have improved in the last 30 years, and modern ones run with a COP of rather significantly greater than 1 down to -15F or so.  In most areas, natural gas is enough cheaper than electricity that replacing a perfectly good furnace with a heat pump will generally cost more in operational costs, but you can heat on them down to pretty darn cold without running the backup coils or the furnace.

If you do that, keep your existing furnace in place and run a "dual fuel" setup.  The Nest supports it, most other decent thermostats support it, though a cheapo unit won't.  That will use the existing gas furnace in place of the backup coils when it gets properly cold, but if it doesn't get below about 0F, you shouldn't need to run it at all.  Heat pumps have a defrost cycle that requires pulling heat out of the house, and they tend to use the backup coils to avoid cooling the house down, but it's not actually needed, and they may or may not really need defrosting (ours runs a defrost cycle when there's no need to, and I haven't gotten around to replacing the defrost board with a smarter, pressure-drop-sensing one).

Quote
Has anyone achieved zero net energy in a conventionally constructed home located in a region with 4 seasons?

Not yet, but I'm aiming in that general direction in a somewhat modern manufactured home.  We use about 14MWh/yr for everything (cooking, heating, cooling, well pump, etc), and I should have an array online next year that offsets north of that, as we just added a Volt.

We were still heating our house with that 85% gas furnace, so we replaced it with a heat pump.  It's about 400% efficient for both heating and cooling, and removed the next largest carbon emission source from our household and replaced it with electricity.

Is 400% calculated based on your COP curves for your unit, or just a general heat pump ballpark?  I should sit down with data and see where ours actually runs...

Quote
It's always easier for wealthy westerners to buy indulgences and make no changes to their lifestyles, but I'd have trouble sleeping at night with that half-assed solution.

Yeah, quite.  Indulgences is the right word.

If you know how many BTUs/hr you need you could convert that into KW and look at electric furnaces (seemingly more common in Canada). And if you know how much fuel you currently use you can convert that into kWh. And price out the cost of the heat pump with associated solar vs the cost of the electric furnace with associated solar. Of course if you were also going to be adding dehumidification and or AC that would make the heat pump/mini-split (at least) less costly.

Electric furnaces are popular in Canada because it gets genuinely cold there, and most of their power is hydro.  You don't want one.  It's just a big bank of resistors that converts 1kWh of electricity into 1kWh of heat.  They are staggeringly expensive to run in most parts of the US.  A heat pump will be cheaper just about anywhere, and if you're cold enough that an air source heat pump drops out, consider a ground source heat pump (or just using natural gas).

If you do get a heat pump, get a good thermostat for it.  I'm convinced the Nest thermostat paid it's purchase costs the first winter we had it, because it ran the unit efficiently, and the stock heat pump thermostats are just mind-bogglingly dumb.  I was trying to air the house out before we moved in, so trying to push inside temps up to 95-100F for a while (against a 60F ambient).  The heat pump thermostat looked at the fact that I asked for a few degrees of difference and immediately turned on the backup coils.  The Nest... just ran the compressor and maybe thought I was a bit stupid.

In the winter, the Nest is intelligent about how it runs things, and it's going to be a good bit more efficient.

sol

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Re: Zero Net Energy / Carbon Neutral Households?
« Reply #9 on: November 03, 2018, 10:12:03 PM »
Is 400% calculated based on your COP curves for your unit, or just a general heat pump ballpark?  I should sit down with data and see where ours actually runs...

In the heat pump thread I linked above, I published the table from my heat pump's manual.  It's only 400% when the outside temps are in the mid 50s (like right now), it's 300% when it drops to the mid 30s, 200% at about 9 degrees F, and still more efficient than resistive heating when the table stops at negative 5 degrees F, which just seems crazy to me.

Also in that thread, based on that table, I concluded that given the costs I was paying for natural gas vs electricity, heat pumps were the cheapest way to heat my home at any temperature above 10 degrees F, (which is basically always, here) and natural gas was cheaper below about 10 degrees F because of the drop in heat pump efficiency.  YMMV depending on what you pay for gas vs power, but in my case it never makes financial sense to use the gas burners because it just doesn't get cold enough.

If you do get a heat pump, get a good thermostat for it.  I'm convinced the Nest thermostat paid it's purchase costs the first winter we had it

I agree.  We have a nest3 running our dual fuel setup with a gas furnace serving as the air handler for our heat pump, and it works great.  You can specify the temperature at which it switches on the gas furnace, which is kind of a trial and error thing.  The heat pump is still cheaper to run down to well below freezing, but it operates slowly enough at those low temps that it may not be able to keep an old drafty house warm due to heat losses, in which case you could tell it to fire up the gas heat sooner (even though it costs more) so as to maintain stable inside temps.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2018, 10:20:32 PM by sol »

BuildingFrugalHabits

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Re: Zero Net Energy / Carbon Neutral Households?
« Reply #10 on: November 04, 2018, 08:20:28 AM »
BFH,

I have gone down this path, and am a few years ahead of you.

Cool, this is what I was looking for and I think we will end up following a very similar path as you did.  I didn't realize that heat pumps have become so efficient down to single digit temps.  I'm also looking very closely at the leaf or Prius Prime in the next year or two. 

I really like the idea of displacing gasoline with solar and that probably has a better ROI than a new furnace so maybe a EV is step one.  My rationale with the heat pump is that it can't be that much more expensive than a new central AC unit and the house is already plumbed for it. 

I had a home energy audit a few years ago and they said we were in "pretty good shape overall."  They had the following recommendations in order of ROI:
 
1. There's a few leaks that I need to address
2. Add additional insulation to the attic for like $2,000 which would provide a nominal improvement.
3. Add a whole house fan to cool the house in lieu of A/C.
4. Upgrade furnace to 95%+

They didn't say anything about the walls. 

My 12 month gas use is 692 therms with an 80% efficient furnace.  The hot water is about 3-4 therms per month.  That translates to a home heating requirement of about 15 MWh per year.   So with a heat pump averaging 300% efficiency, I would need about 5 MWh.  My existing 5 kW PV system produces about 6.7 MWh per year so I would need to add another 4 kW of capacity. 

Also, our family burns about 400 gallons of gas per year which translates to 3500 kg of CO2.
692 therms also translates to about 3600 kg of CO2. 



Syonyk

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Re: Zero Net Energy / Carbon Neutral Households?
« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2018, 02:36:04 PM »
My 12 month gas use is 692 therms with an 80% efficient furnace.  The hot water is about 3-4 therms per month.  That translates to a home heating requirement of about 15 MWh per year.   So with a heat pump averaging 300% efficiency, I would need about 5 MWh.

Careful with that math.  It doesn't work like that.

Heat pumps are most efficient when things are warmer - when you need less heat.  So the heat pump may run for 2 hours a day at 45F with a COP of 4.

When it's -10F, the house is losing a ton more heat, so requires more heat - at the same time that the heat pump isn't working nearly as efficiently.  So it may run for 16 hours at a COP of 1.3 or something.

I'm all for heat pumps, and love ours, but you can't just handwave at the heating energy use like that with a heat pump and be close enough for any real use.

BuildingFrugalHabits

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Re: Zero Net Energy / Carbon Neutral Households?
« Reply #12 on: November 04, 2018, 08:01:35 PM »
Yeah, it's a total back of envelope calculation to figure out if it's even reasonable to go this route with solar.  I understand the efficiency drops if at low temps and if I get serious, I'll need to run more detailed calculations to size the system and PV array for the house and climate. 

I also went back and looked at my utility bills in more detail and was very surprised to find how cheap the actual gas is, the connection fees are about $16 per month whereas each therm is billed at $0.47. This makes nat gas about 5.6 times cheaper per BTU vs gasoline and ICE engines are like 35% efficient at best.  So I guess that economics would suggest an EV purchase is the lower hanging fruit.  Another weird thing if I stop burning gas to heat the house, we are down to just the hot water heater and gas fireplace.  At 4 therms a month, 97% of the bill is connection charges. 

From a carbon footprint perspective, both heating and transportation are roughly equivalent contributors for us.  I think an EV purchase and selling my current vehicle will (could) be cheaper than a new heat pump and solar install.  However, when the A/C dies, I'll definitely be looking to replace it with a heat pump.   


GodlessCommie

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Re: Zero Net Energy / Carbon Neutral Households?
« Reply #13 on: November 05, 2018, 01:16:59 PM »
I saw Prius Prime and Volt mentioned here, and wanted to plug Honda Clarity. ~50 miles of electric range, ~40 mpg after that, same price range, and it is a bigger car than either (which one may consider to be good or bad).

I can't quite wrap my head around heat pump water heater efficiency in Mid-Atlantic region. We don't have natural gas. In the summer it's just free A/C, but I'm not convinced that heat-pumping heat created by another heat pump in the winter beats straight up resistance heating.

sol

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Re: Zero Net Energy / Carbon Neutral Households?
« Reply #14 on: November 05, 2018, 01:33:38 PM »
I'm not convinced that heat-pumping heat created by another heat pump in the winter beats straight up resistance heating.

Do you have a fridge?  How do you think it works?

GodlessCommie

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Re: Zero Net Energy / Carbon Neutral Households?
« Reply #15 on: November 05, 2018, 01:52:36 PM »
Do you have a fridge?  How do you think it works?

That is a good point. However, there is no way to resistance-cool, while there is a way to resistance-heat. So there is no relative efficiency with a fridge, but there is relative efficiency with a water heater.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2018, 01:54:27 PM by GodlessCommie »

sol

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Re: Zero Net Energy / Carbon Neutral Households?
« Reply #16 on: November 05, 2018, 02:07:08 PM »
Do you have a fridge?  How do you think it works?

That is a good point. However, there is no way to resistance-cool, while there is a way to resistance-heat. So there is no relative efficiency with a fridge, but there is relative efficiency with a water heater.

Sure, but when you're running your fridge and your AC at the same time you are again using a heat pump to pump heat that has already been pumped by a heat pump.  It's the converse situation to using your heat pump to heat your home and your heat pump water heater to heat water while cooling your home, and yet no one seems to find it distressing to turn their AC on when they know the fridge is heating their house.  Yet somehow turning on the heat when the water heater is cooling their house is upsetting.

Of course, if you just locate your heat pump water heater in an unconditioned space like your garage like you're supposed to, all of these problems go away. 

effigy98

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Re: Zero Net Energy / Carbon Neutral Households?
« Reply #17 on: November 05, 2018, 03:51:18 PM »
I did the PV system, heat pump, and electric bike (bike is actually faster to commute home then car). We have emergency heat on gas and water heater. The most expensive part is the "delivery fees and taxes", not the actual gas I use, so I am replacing those next and will have $0 electricity.

I do mine crypto with the surplus electricity as that makes more money (even still) then selling back to the grid and heats the home in the winter.

BudgetSlasher

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Re: Zero Net Energy / Carbon Neutral Households?
« Reply #18 on: November 05, 2018, 04:50:37 PM »


If you know how many BTUs/hr you need you could convert that into KW and look at electric furnaces (seemingly more common in Canada). And if you know how much fuel you currently use you can convert that into kWh. And price out the cost of the heat pump with associated solar vs the cost of the electric furnace with associated solar. Of course if you were also going to be adding dehumidification and or AC that would make the heat pump/mini-split (at least) less costly.

Electric furnaces are popular in Canada because it gets genuinely cold there, and most of their power is hydro.  You don't want one.  It's just a big bank of resistors that converts 1kWh of electricity into 1kWh of heat.  They are staggeringly expensive to run in most parts of the US.  A heat pump will be cheaper just about anywhere, and if you're cold enough that an air source heat pump drops out, consider a ground source heat pump (or just using natural gas).

It is staggeringly expensive if you are paying retail rates on the electricity. If you are generating that electricity yourself and not paying for it through a net metering arrangement it could be different.

For example. My house would need roughly 22,000 kWh to heat with electric resistive heating (converted gallons of oil*boiler efficiency to kWh) and a long term study shows that in climate zones like mine the heating COP is ~1.7 to 2.3 (we will just assume 2 for argument).

That means I would need

A)22,000 additional kWh to heat resistively. An electric furnace in my size would be ~2,000 and from my research and planning it seems sub-$1.50/watt solar (DC solar array size not AC kWh output) is doable (DIY) after tax credits. In my areas that is an additional 18KW of array. So 2,000+(18,000*1.5) = 29,000

OR

B) I would need two hyper heat style heat pumps with vertical air handlers and backup resistive heat to meet the needs of my house (or multiple interior heads due to arrangement). Those are roughly 16,000 not including installation. With a COP of 2, I would need an additional 11,000 kWh (so . . . a 9KW solar array). So that math looks like 16,000 + (9,000*1.5) = 29,500 (plus installation costs).

So by installing a sufficient solar array I would have pre-purchased my electricity (in a net metering regulatory environment with a 12-month rolling back).

If initial costs were to come out as close as my rough math, and there were no difference in future electrical costs, due to covering all production on site. I would take the resistive electric heat due to in simplicity (and presumably ease of repair later) alone.

Of course in a location with different tax incentives, different regulatory regimes, increased solar costs with professional installation or different conditions, or limited area for a solar area. I would still take solar and heat pump over fossil fuel.

I am years away from making any switch though as there is still insulation upgrading and air sealing, as well as other efficiency measure to take before installing solar. Not to mention tomorrow's election could change the regulatory landscape here back to net-metering (though that will take some time) from its current ~90% credit.

I agree with installing smart controls period. We had to replace our boiler controls a while ago and adding an outdoor reset saved us a bit. Upgrading to a smart thermostat saved us even more.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2018, 04:52:55 PM by BudgetSlasher »

Syonyk

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Re: Zero Net Energy / Carbon Neutral Households?
« Reply #19 on: November 05, 2018, 08:24:49 PM »
Of course, if you just locate your heat pump water heater in an unconditioned space like your garage like you're supposed to, all of these problems go away.

Not everyone has a garage attached to the house.  It's a valid question about efficiency.

AccidentialMustache

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Re: Zero Net Energy / Carbon Neutral Households?
« Reply #20 on: November 05, 2018, 10:23:54 PM »
We had a nest with a geo-sourced heat pump + resistive backup. When it got "too cold" for the geo (read: it couldn't keep up with heat losses) the nest would switch to pure resistive and turn off the heat pump.

They may have improved in newer generations, but we weren't totally happy with it before we sold the house.