Author Topic: Would you follow your job into a ghetto?  (Read 5930 times)

mwulff

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Would you follow your job into a ghetto?
« on: May 18, 2017, 11:38:53 PM »
Hello everyone,

I would like some feedback on changes instituted by my employer (city government). We have a split office setup where we work at a central location monday and friday. The other days we are at a remote location (in a nice part of town).

Now in their infinite wisdom the powers that be have relocated our monday/friday work location to the worst ghetto in the country. Now a danish ghetto is not as dangerous as say a dangerous area in the states. People don't get shot here regularly, but we are in a place where the police doesn't show up unless they bring 2 or more squad cars.

I normally bike to work but I am concerned that when we reach winter and it is dark all morning and afternoon that this will start to feel very uncomfortable indeed.

We then suggested to our boss that we might as well work at our remote location all week since that would be best for the project that we are working on anyway. The answer was that it was important for his bosses to see so many people working under him, of course phrased as political bullshit.

So my question is: Would you accept a relocation to a ghetto and what would your response be?

My personal situation is that finances are good and my wife has a job that could sustain us indefinitely. I could probably get another job relatively easily.

Erica

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Re: Would you follow your job into a ghetto?
« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2017, 11:55:45 PM »
Yes I would follow my job into the ghetto which I've already done.

It was the only way to move up.

It is 3 days a week, 10 hr shifts.  Additional days would not be do-able.

I highly suggest you NOT cycle to work.

If that is a deal breaker for you for whatever reason, find another job

It's not worh the risk,

No one cycles in the ghetto at night. JMHO
« Last Edit: May 18, 2017, 11:59:25 PM by Erica »

jooniFLORisploo

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Re: Would you follow your job into a ghetto?
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2017, 01:10:56 AM »
Yes I would follow my job into the ghetto which I've already done.

+1.

In my case, it simply made our services most accessible to the clients, so it made sense.

After becoming responsible for/to a kid, though, I changed a lot of what I do; until then, pretty much everything was a go.

Linda_Norway

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Re: Would you follow your job into a ghetto?
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2017, 02:06:01 AM »
I guess as a Dane you like cycling to work. I hope that new location has a safe indoor bicycle parking. Otherwise, I guess it depends on your person. Do you feel like a vulnerable person and do you easily get uncomfortable in place? Then it might be better for your person to find another job. Otherwise, it is worth to first give it a chance and find out whether is really is that bad.

When one of my previous employers moved, the employees has a lot to says about the location, as we were located very centrally, close to a central subway location. No one wanted to work aware less central and people came from all directions. Eventually we ended up in the same area, just 5 minutes longer walking. This was very well accepted.

mwulff

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Re: Would you follow your job into a ghetto?
« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2017, 03:09:27 AM »
I guess as a Dane you like cycling to work. I hope that new location has a safe indoor bicycle parking. Otherwise, I guess it depends on your person. Do you feel like a vulnerable person and do you easily get uncomfortable in place? Then it might be better for your person to find another job. Otherwise, it is worth to first give it a chance and find out whether is really is that bad.

When one of my previous employers moved, the employees has a lot to says about the location, as we were located very centrally, close to a central subway location. No one wanted to work aware less central and people came from all directions. Eventually we ended up in the same area, just 5 minutes longer walking. This was very well accepted.

Actually I'm not particularly vulnerable and we do have a safe shed for the bicycles. My primary concern is exposing myself unnecessarily to risk of injury (violent attack, being pushed from my bike etc.) that could have long-lasting consequences such as stress reactions, anxiety or even brain injuries (theoretical from being pushed off my bike).

Being in IT I have pretty good options for getting a new job, but I would hate to leave a good team. So I am torn between the team and my perceived safety/risk. 

Linda_Norway

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Re: Would you follow your job into a ghetto?
« Reply #5 on: May 19, 2017, 03:52:48 AM »
Actually I'm not particularly vulnerable and we do have a safe shed for the bicycles. My primary concern is exposing myself unnecessarily to risk of injury (violent attack, being pushed from my bike etc.) that could have long-lasting consequences such as stress reactions, anxiety or even brain injuries (theoretical from being pushed off my bike).

Being in IT I have pretty good options for getting a new job, but I would hate to leave a good team. So I am torn between the team and my perceived safety/risk.

Do you have support from your coworkers for disliking this location? Could you all group and protest against the new location? Management should reconsider is enough people are so much against it. They wouldn't want to risk many people quitting.

MustachianAccountant

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Re: Would you follow your job into a ghetto?
« Reply #6 on: May 19, 2017, 03:56:14 AM »
I normally bike to work but I am concerned that when we reach winter and it is dark all morning and afternoon that this will start to feel very uncomfortable indeed.

I have to assume your public transportation options are as good as the rest of Europe. Why not train/bus to work on those few days during the winter?
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Linda_Norway

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Re: Would you follow your job into a ghetto?
« Reply #7 on: May 19, 2017, 03:58:01 AM »
Do you wear a helmet on your bike? This will save you from some possible brain injuries, caused by any kind of cause.

mwulff

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Re: Would you follow your job into a ghetto?
« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2017, 04:21:36 AM »
I normally bike to work but I am concerned that when we reach winter and it is dark all morning and afternoon that this will start to feel very uncomfortable indeed.

I have to assume your public transportation options are as good as the rest of Europe. Why not train/bus to work on those few days during the winter?

Unfortunately that is not an option. It would take close to two hours vs 25 minutes by bike.

jooniFLORisploo

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Re: Would you follow your job into a ghetto?
« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2017, 04:34:10 AM »
In rough parts of towns, I prefer cycling to almost any other. (Car, then bike, then walk/transit equally.) Car I've got lots of self-care options, bike I'm pretty nimble and quick getting through tricky stuff; walking more nimble than transit when someone's acting out.

Mezzie

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Re: Would you follow your job into a ghetto?
« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2017, 05:07:50 AM »
I chose to work in the ghetto (in the states, no less). I absolutely love it.

That is not to say that bad things have not happened. They have. But the families I work for are there 24 hours a day; I can certainly manage 8. It's also not far from where I grew up, so I feel a connection to the place that probably helps my comfort level. If impoverished areas are new to you, it can take some adjusting, but it will possibly widen your view of social issues and priorities. Learning is a good thing. :)
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BlueMR2

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Re: Would you follow your job into a ghetto?
« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2017, 06:24:27 AM »
This would be a deal breaker for me.  There's plenty of jobs in safe locations to not go into bad areas.

Maenad

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Re: Would you follow your job into a ghetto?
« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2017, 06:52:55 AM »
Does your local police department have data on the crime rates in the area? Actually knowing what the risk is rather than the theoretical danger could be helpful.

Laserjet3051

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Re: Would you follow your job into a ghetto?
« Reply #13 on: May 19, 2017, 09:52:54 AM »
I lived in one of america's worst ghettos for a while and insisted on biking in every day. I was only jacked on my bike 3 times; only minor injuries, and the bikes werent worth that much. fortunately frequent police patrols helped me out once, extricating me from a potentially fatal situation. Truth. I had to weave through large groups of young men each day, just standing in the middle of the street, conducting "business." I even had a young lady jump out at me and strike me in the jaw, knocking me down off my bike.

Would I recommend it? FUCK NO!!!!!!!!!!

dougules

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Re: Would you follow your job into a ghetto?
« Reply #14 on: May 19, 2017, 11:21:20 AM »
Does your local police department have data on the crime rates in the area? Actually knowing what the risk is rather than the theoretical danger could be helpful.

I'm for looking at real statistics, too.  How often do people on bikes run into crimes, and how many of those are between people that don't actually know each other?  Some places may be dangerous, but look at some numbers and separate fact from hype.  I'd be willing to bet it's not as bad as Laserjet's neighborhood. 
« Last Edit: May 19, 2017, 11:23:42 AM by dougules »

PDXTabs

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Re: Would you follow your job into a ghetto?
« Reply #15 on: May 19, 2017, 11:26:08 AM »
I would follow my job into the ghetto if I liked the job.

GU

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Re: Would you follow your job into a ghetto?
« Reply #16 on: May 19, 2017, 11:38:01 AM »
Does your local police department have data on the crime rates in the area? Actually knowing what the risk is rather than the theoretical danger could be helpful.

I'm for looking at real statistics, too.  How often do people on bikes run into crimes, and how many of those are between people that don't actually know each other?  Some places may be dangerous, but look at some numbers and separate fact from hype.  I'd be willing to bet it's not as bad as Laserjet's neighborhood.

But crime statistics only tell part of the story. Many people don't report petty crimes to the police. For instance, reporting your bike stolen in a major city is likely a waste of time, and many people don't do it.  Moreover, you need to factor in the psychological toll of getting jeered at, stared down, "tested," asked for money (often with the implication that there will be trouble if you don't pay up), cat-called or worse if you're a woman, etc.  A lot of this stuff is borderline criminal but it won't show up in crime statistics, and it gets old real fast. 

Personally, I would never take a job where I had to ride my bike through the hood. But I assume the Danish ghettos are more benign than their American counterparts, so maybe it's not that big of deal.

Vindicated

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Re: Would you follow your job into a ghetto?
« Reply #17 on: May 19, 2017, 11:48:11 AM »
I worked as a teacher in one of the worst areas of Indy and always felt safe.  I wouldn't have ridden a bike though.  Meanwhile, many of my students walked to school in the area, and we never had anyone harassed.

I heard it suggested that the schools, teachers & students are considered off-limits by the disreputable crowd.
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Cranky

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Re: Would you follow your job into a ghetto?
« Reply #18 on: May 19, 2017, 12:31:05 PM »
So, what kind of crime goes on in this ghetto/bad neighborhood (because I'm not sure that ghetto is really the right word here)?

Do you feel you'll be mugged? Your bike stolen? Are the streets deserted in the mornings?

I have walked and taken the bus in some pretty crummy neighborhoods, and while I keep my eyes wide open and am alert for trouble, I don't particularly fear for my life. Most crime is either unattended stuff being stolen, and most violent crime is between people who know one another, not so much people going to work in the daytime. But maybe Denmark is a scarier place!

Bicycle_B

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Re: Would you follow your job into a ghetto?
« Reply #19 on: May 19, 2017, 12:40:05 PM »
Without knowing more, I'd stick with the team and try it for a while.  It might turn out to be fine.  Could leave later if needed.

As an American, I moved into an area of my city perceived as a ghetto.  I suffered more theft in one year of the nice suburb I moved from than 20 years in the lower-income neighborhood I moved into.  Not once have I received or been threatened with any injury.  Regarding the general question, I would learn more about the specific "ghetto", for example by learning from others from your background who have spent time there. 

In your specific case, I don't know the behavior of the police in your country well enough to know how cautious they are.  I don't know the issues that cause any danger well enough to know whether you would be at risk of violence, or if the risk is targeted more strictly at police. 

neverrun

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Re: Would you follow your job into a ghetto?
« Reply #20 on: May 19, 2017, 01:17:20 PM »
I work in the Ghetto every day and have for the past 4 years.

Dollar Slice

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Re: Would you follow your job into a ghetto?
« Reply #21 on: May 19, 2017, 01:29:15 PM »
It really depends on the reality of what this place is really like. There are absolutely places I would refuse to work, but there are also a ton of places that some people would be scared of that are not really dangerous.

I live in Harlem and work in midtown Manhattan; in spite of Harlem's reputation, there has been WAY WORSE stuff going down near my office (multiple people shot and killed in the last couple of years, etc.) than where I live. I did my research before I moved in and I knew that part of Harlem was pretty safe.

When I was 19 I worked for a couple of summers on a block where there were prostitutes picking up johns right out in front of our building. Definitely a sketchy neighborhood, and I was a young woman walking out to my car by myself every evening, but I was literally never bothered even once.

Do the research and find out what kind of street crime is really happening before you decide.
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Solvent

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Re: Would you follow your job into a ghetto?
« Reply #22 on: May 19, 2017, 01:32:33 PM »
I'm relocating to Addis Ababa for my work. Much of the city could be said to share some characteristics with a ghetto.

I think I have a different perspective on risk to some people. Really, if you're not inviting trouble, should you really be that concerned? Yeah, you're more likely to be mugged in a ghetto than you are elsewhere, but a small increase in probability on an already very small probability is still probably... very small.

(What's the xkcd joke? There's a 10% increase in risk of being shot by a dog with a gun in it's mouth in this location?)
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Duke03

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Re: Would you follow your job into a ghetto?
« Reply #23 on: May 19, 2017, 03:03:16 PM »
I followed my job into the ghetto.  Of course I live in Texas where you don't need any special license to drive around with guns in your truck!  Never had a problem!

big_slacker

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Re: Would you follow your job into a ghetto?
« Reply #24 on: May 19, 2017, 03:33:19 PM »
Short answer, not long term. I grew up in a real ghetto like you've seen in US rap videos during the peak of the crack wars. Some people might be quick to tell you actual violent crime is relatively rare even in places like this, and situational awareness can keep you out of trouble. Those things are true, but so is day to day low level stress and anxiety punctuated by occasional moments of intense fight or flight situations if you get chased, yelled at, attempted mugging, etc. No job is worth that. I guess it's up for you to judge whether this place is THAT bad, or if you'll feel relatively comfortable.

I did a short term stint working at a site in Compton. I didn't mind walking to the corner store to get snacks, but based on the checker being behind bulletproof glass you better believe my radar was up walking around, especially in professional clothes. :D

If they would have extended the contract, I would have quit, period.

Cassie

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Re: Would you follow your job into a ghetto?
« Reply #25 on: May 19, 2017, 03:34:10 PM »
Yes I have but I always drove. I would not use a bike.

MMMaybe

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Re: Would you follow your job into a ghetto?
« Reply #26 on: May 19, 2017, 04:02:47 PM »
I would not. I don't see any point in putting myself at risk. You are entitled to feel safe.

spicykissa

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Re: Would you follow your job into a ghetto?
« Reply #27 on: May 19, 2017, 04:25:54 PM »
I work in a "ghetto" on purpose (at a trauma hospital), so yes. I don't bike, but my friends who do haven't had any major problems. We have very good on-campus security, including dogs. Also, being in white coats/scrubs seems to insulate us from some degree of harassment.

That being said, I have been catcalled, followed into a 7-11, and had food I was eating while walking stolen out of my hands. I've stepped over an overdose victim on the sidewalk (they were obviously still breathing and the ambulance was pulling up). That background anxiety/stress/heightened awareness thing is real and not fun. But, it's 10-15 minutes out of an entire workday, and I love my job, so it's worth it to me.

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Re: Would you follow your job into a ghetto?
« Reply #28 on: May 19, 2017, 04:38:28 PM »
Whether it was a rational or irrational decision, I've followed several job location moves. 

And my last job had it's computer room in the heart of the 'hood.  All our work had to be done after midnight (or after 2am, depending on the type of change) and you had to drive down a dead end street with a very active club scene going on and lots of drunks milling about.  Not once did I get mugged or even get a threatening glance.
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Re: Would you follow your job into a ghetto?
« Reply #29 on: May 19, 2017, 05:16:52 PM »
This article has some photos from "the worst ghettos in Denmark". Just to give some perspective: https://www.mx.dk/nyheder/aarhus/story/28443034?redirect=mobi&nocache=0.3915197984315455

Try it out before you decide. There probably won't be any issues at all. If there are any problems, discuss them with your employer.
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bb11

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Re: Would you follow your job into a ghetto?
« Reply #30 on: May 19, 2017, 07:35:39 PM »
Yes, in most circumstances. Would depend on the perception vs reality of the "ghetto" (many are not all that bad) and what my work environment was like. But for the right job, yes.

HoustonSker

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Re: Would you follow your job into a ghetto?
« Reply #31 on: May 19, 2017, 08:40:35 PM »
I would not follow my job into the ghetto if I was primarily traveling on foot, bike, or public transport.  Driving and parking in a garage...maybe.

What is the probability that you, or your coworkers, will run into trouble?  I assume it is likely and that is not something I would prefer to live with.  Knowing that two of your five workdays, there is a higher probability of encountering trouble simply by going to work.  Fuck that.

However, you might try it for a month as it's only two days a week.  Ride a shit bike and pedal like a demon, also wear athletic shoes in case you need to run like Usain Bolt.  All kidding aside, I suggest you begin organizing your coworkers to begin voicing your concerns to management about the arrangement, especially if any of your coworkers are female.  I cannot imagine being a blonde Danish woman walking through a ghetto full of third worlders.

Also, I suggest you start voting Dansk Folkeparti.  Good luck...

mwulff

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Re: Would you follow your job into a ghetto?
« Reply #32 on: May 20, 2017, 01:58:17 AM »
Thanks for all the suggestions.

So I've been thinking about it for a day now, and I've read all you replies. Most of them several times.

Here's what I've concluded so far:

1. For me to feel safe going to work in winter would probably require a car. This is a huge expense (150% tax on cars here) and it is one I would rather not incur, since it would eat up a whole year's worth of income if bought new. Bought used it would probably be closer to 2-3 months of income, even if the car is very old. Add to that running costs, insurance and maintenance and it becomes a very bad deal indeed.

2. It is now summer, so we have long days with a lot of sunlight. This makes biking more acceptable since I can see what is coming and my e-bike is super fast. This gives me some room to escape if a situation should occur.

3. I'm unlikely to get shot since guns are very very hard to acquire in this country. The major risks are harassment, being pushed off my bike, physical assault or maybe knives. Now it's not people get attacked every day, but it does happen. In 2014 a person ended up in a wheelchair for life after being assaulted about 200 meters from our office.

4. I'll be contacting my insurance company and checking with them if there is any penalty working in this area, and then deal with the hassles. The good part about this step is that insurances companies knows everything about every area, so they may be able to provide me with more data.

5. If any single incident occurs to any of my coworkers my immediate response will be an email to my boss stating that I will no longer be coming into this office. I will go to work at our remote office and do my job every day, but as long as my employer can't guarantee our safety that is my policy and it is non-negotiable.

6. Start applying for new jobs immediately and being a software developer I hope to get some offers this summer. If I get an offer that is good enough I will give my notice and leave. BTW scuttlebutt says the up to 30% of all it-personnel has started looking for new jobs.

7. I have set an ultimate deadline on the 7th of august. Regardless of my job situation I will give my notice on that day. This means that my last day is the 1st of october, so I can avoid the winter darkness in my commute. This also means that I will give the project owners a lot of time to replace me and to train my replacement. I will try to leave without burning any bridges.  I have not yet decided whether to stay if they offer to relocate me permanently to our remote office. It's an option as I really like my work.

8. Voting for any right-wing party is out of the question. The desperate people (not everyone obviously) in Vollsmose don't need further ostracizing. What they need is something to look forward to. To think that their children will have a better life through education and jobs. If you believe you have a future in society then you will be more ready to work for that future.

So any more steps I should be taking? and thanks for all your answers.

And one last thought, I really admire people who take jobs in ghettos and work to make them better places. For me personally I took my job to write software. I never signed up for being part of a social experiment in a ghetto.

And again thanks for listening everybody.

jooniFLORisploo

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Re: Would you follow your job into a ghetto?
« Reply #33 on: May 20, 2017, 02:55:42 AM »
WOW!! Fantastic plan and post, mwulff! A highlight in my several years on the forum!

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Re: Would you follow your job into a ghetto?
« Reply #34 on: May 20, 2017, 05:01:29 AM »
Sounds like a great plan. I want to add that I work in the ghetto. I am a teacher and I will never leave my school, and the reason is the people (principal, superintendent,  special ed Department director, and other teachers, etc) I work with. For me, working alongside good, supportive coworkers is everything. I've been places where my co-workers were horrible, so it's worth it to put up with working in the ghetto. I do drive though. 

The crime that happens the most around here? During the night thieves steal the batteries out of our school buses. When our transportation director replaces them, the thieves come back and steal the new ones. Our kids get to school very late on those days!

Best of luck with your plan.
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Cranky

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Re: Would you follow your job into a ghetto?
« Reply #35 on: May 20, 2017, 09:54:24 AM »
This article has some photos from "the worst ghettos in Denmark". Just to give some perspective: https://www.mx.dk/nyheder/aarhus/story/28443034?redirect=mobi&nocache=0.3915197984315455

Try it out before you decide. There probably won't be any issues at all. If there are any problems, discuss them with your employer.

The rest of Denmark must be pretty darned nice if that's the worst neighborhoods they've got.

esq

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Re: Would you follow your job into a ghetto?
« Reply #36 on: May 20, 2017, 11:27:05 AM »
I clicked on that link and got an ad for an Oklahoma travel guide.
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dougules

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Re: Would you follow your job into a ghetto?
« Reply #37 on: May 22, 2017, 11:34:58 AM »
Does your local police department have data on the crime rates in the area? Actually knowing what the risk is rather than the theoretical danger could be helpful.

I'm for looking at real statistics, too.  How often do people on bikes run into crimes, and how many of those are between people that don't actually know each other?  Some places may be dangerous, but look at some numbers and separate fact from hype.  I'd be willing to bet it's not as bad as Laserjet's neighborhood.

But crime statistics only tell part of the story. Many people don't report petty crimes to the police. For instance, reporting your bike stolen in a major city is likely a waste of time, and many people don't do it.  Moreover, you need to factor in the psychological toll of getting jeered at, stared down, "tested," asked for money (often with the implication that there will be trouble if you don't pay up), cat-called or worse if you're a woman, etc.  A lot of this stuff is borderline criminal but it won't show up in crime statistics, and it gets old real fast. 

Personally, I would never take a job where I had to ride my bike through the hood. But I assume the Danish ghettos are more benign than their American counterparts, so maybe it's not that big of deal.

True, but violent crimes mostly make police reports, right?  If there's not a big risk of violent crime, then get a beater bike and try it out for a while.  If you run into trouble, you can just stop.  I ride through neighborhoods in my hometown that have a reputation for being rough, but it's mostly blown way out of proportion.  Some cities really do have neighborhoods that are dangerous, but there are more neighborhoods that aren't nearly as bad as their reputation. 

steviesterno

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Re: Would you follow your job into a ghetto?
« Reply #38 on: May 22, 2017, 04:38:29 PM »
I work in a shitty area in DFW. We have fences, armed security, cameras, etc. Even still, I don't feel super safe. I'm not allowed to carry a gun at work (legal but I would be fired if found out) so I don't. This is Texas, and I can carry almost everywhere else or locked in my car legally.

I don't go locally for lunch, I stay here or go outside the wire, so to speak. I live 12 miles away in a really nice part of town. I drive, Dallas is not set up at all to bike and I wouldn't feel safe on 2 wheels.


If we went to a much worse place I would leave. but the real bad stuff seems to happen off our grounds. We get some car break ins (I have a steel safe and tinted windows) but my car is right outside my office window. I don't love it but it's not bad enough to get me to leave.


EDITED TO ADD: wayyyyyyy worse than those pictures show. Murders, drug crime, assaults all nearby. Your dingy buildings would be $2k/month apartments in this area.

GU

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Re: Would you follow your job into a ghetto?
« Reply #39 on: May 22, 2017, 06:07:30 PM »
Does your local police department have data on the crime rates in the area? Actually knowing what the risk is rather than the theoretical danger could be helpful.

I'm for looking at real statistics, too.  How often do people on bikes run into crimes, and how many of those are between people that don't actually know each other?  Some places may be dangerous, but look at some numbers and separate fact from hype.  I'd be willing to bet it's not as bad as Laserjet's neighborhood.

But crime statistics only tell part of the story. Many people don't report petty crimes to the police. For instance, reporting your bike stolen in a major city is likely a waste of time, and many people don't do it.  Moreover, you need to factor in the psychological toll of getting jeered at, stared down, "tested," asked for money (often with the implication that there will be trouble if you don't pay up), cat-called or worse if you're a woman, etc.  A lot of this stuff is borderline criminal but it won't show up in crime statistics, and it gets old real fast. 

Personally, I would never take a job where I had to ride my bike through the hood. But I assume the Danish ghettos are more benign than their American counterparts, so maybe it's not that big of deal.

True, but violent crimes mostly make police reports, right?  If there's not a big risk of violent crime, then get a beater bike and try it out for a while.  If you run into trouble, you can just stop.  I ride through neighborhoods in my hometown that have a reputation for being rough, but it's mostly blown way out of proportion.  Some cities really do have neighborhoods that are dangerous, but there are more neighborhoods that aren't nearly as bad as their reputation.

But my point was that you don't need to be physically assaulted for ghetto life to take a psychological toll.  Getting threatened or taunted is very annoying.  It tends to make men feel angry (because it is emasculating to not respond to physical threats) and women to be frightened (men may also be frightened).  Perhaps you are able to just shrug off such things. Most people are not so aloof.

sequoia

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Re: Would you follow your job into a ghetto?
« Reply #40 on: May 22, 2017, 11:03:37 PM »
No. Life is too short. You can always look for another job, but safety should be priority no 1. All it takes is one incident, and you maybe injured for life, and you will regret that for the rest of your life.

It is one thing if you do not have alternatives, but it sounds like you have alternative so it is not worth a risk imo.

SC93

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Re: Would you follow your job into a ghetto?
« Reply #41 on: May 23, 2017, 12:13:52 AM »
Being the entrepreneur that I am, I wouldn't follow a 'job' anywhere. Couldn't do it. Back when I owned a large cleaning company we had accounts in the ghetto.... but it wasn't a 'bad' ghetto. There was one year when there was 1 murder every 24 hours. That probably happens more now up there but I'm not there and at the time it was unusual for that to happen. Nowadays I own a small company. I have 3 people that work for me but I do the deliveries to keep me out of trouble. I've delivered to the ghetto. I was in Oak Cliff about a month ago, one of the worst around here. It was 8pm and I had a few thousand dollars on me from the sales of the day. I made a mental note, the next time I go to the ghetto I will swing by and dump my money first.

gaja

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Re: Would you follow your job into a ghetto?
« Reply #42 on: May 23, 2017, 05:08:45 AM »
Being the entrepreneur that I am, I wouldn't follow a 'job' anywhere. Couldn't do it. Back when I owned a large cleaning company we had accounts in the ghetto.... but it wasn't a 'bad' ghetto. There was one year when there was 1 murder every 24 hours. That probably happens more now up there but I'm not there and at the time it was unusual for that to happen. Nowadays I own a small company. I have 3 people that work for me but I do the deliveries to keep me out of trouble. I've delivered to the ghetto. I was in Oak Cliff about a month ago, one of the worst around here. It was 8pm and I had a few thousand dollars on me from the sales of the day. I made a mental note, the next time I go to the ghetto I will swing by and dump my money first.

Again, to give perspective; in total in Denmark about 40-60 people are killed a year. 75% know their killer, so you can probably count murders of random bicyclists on one hand.
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dougules

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Re: Would you follow your job into a ghetto?
« Reply #43 on: May 23, 2017, 11:01:14 AM »
Does your local police department have data on the crime rates in the area? Actually knowing what the risk is rather than the theoretical danger could be helpful.

I'm for looking at real statistics, too.  How often do people on bikes run into crimes, and how many of those are between people that don't actually know each other?  Some places may be dangerous, but look at some numbers and separate fact from hype.  I'd be willing to bet it's not as bad as Laserjet's neighborhood.

But crime statistics only tell part of the story. Many people don't report petty crimes to the police. For instance, reporting your bike stolen in a major city is likely a waste of time, and many people don't do it.  Moreover, you need to factor in the psychological toll of getting jeered at, stared down, "tested," asked for money (often with the implication that there will be trouble if you don't pay up), cat-called or worse if you're a woman, etc.  A lot of this stuff is borderline criminal but it won't show up in crime statistics, and it gets old real fast. 

Personally, I would never take a job where I had to ride my bike through the hood. But I assume the Danish ghettos are more benign than their American counterparts, so maybe it's not that big of deal.

True, but violent crimes mostly make police reports, right?  If there's not a big risk of violent crime, then get a beater bike and try it out for a while.  If you run into trouble, you can just stop.  I ride through neighborhoods in my hometown that have a reputation for being rough, but it's mostly blown way out of proportion.  Some cities really do have neighborhoods that are dangerous, but there are more neighborhoods that aren't nearly as bad as their reputation.

But my point was that you don't need to be physically assaulted for ghetto life to take a psychological toll.  Getting threatened or taunted is very annoying.  It tends to make men feel angry (because it is emasculating to not respond to physical threats) and women to be frightened (men may also be frightened).  Perhaps you are able to just shrug off such things. Most people are not so aloof.

Yes, but what I was trying to say is that a lot of neighborhoods that people pass off as "ghettos" are pretty benign.  How do you know it really is a place where you're going to get threatened or taunted?  A lot of people are scared my neighborhood is like that, but that's ridiculous.  I walk around my neighborhood at night.  The neighborhood over the hill from me has a much worse reputation, and I bike through it at night.  I'm more afraid of getting run over than violence.   

If the stats don't say you're at risk of getting physically hurt, bike through and see what happens.  If you get threatened, taunted, yelled at, whatever, then don't go back.  There's a good chance you will bike through and nothing will happen. 

ysette9

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Re: Would you follow your job into a ghetto?
« Reply #44 on: May 23, 2017, 03:11:30 PM »
A lot of this boils down to what your personal comfort level is. Speaking as a physically small woman, I've decided that I don't have tolerance for feeling unsafe or even uncomfortable. Yes, I might be fine in the end, but that is not how I want to feel as I move through life. When we moved from a fine but rough-on-the-edges neighborhood to a nicer neighborhood I got a lot of pleasure out of feeling like I could finally go on a walk at night by myself and not feel the need to be on edge. I can leave my front door unlocked and not worry. This kind of stuff is valuable to me, even more so now that I have a kid. When I compared notes with my husband at the time, he didn't notice this kind of thing about our old neighborhood. I bet if you are a big dude in good shape you'll care even less.

That said, if you do think this will be a deal breaker, I'd recommend speaking up to your management now while they are still in a position to make a different choice. Like someone else said, if enough people speak up, that could change things. You may say something like you are going to give it a chance, but if you don't feel safe, you'll start looking for another job. Or maybe you'll make it work in the summer months, but bail once the weather/light mean you have to choose between this job and getting a car or another job and sticking with biking. Then you could stick with the job for now and see for yourself whether the new location really is a problem or if you will be pleasantly surprised.
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sequoia

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Re: Would you follow your job into a ghetto?
« Reply #45 on: May 23, 2017, 05:31:10 PM »
Yes, but what I was trying to say is that a lot of neighborhoods that people pass off as "ghettos" are pretty benign.  How do you know it really is a place where you're going to get threatened or taunted?  A lot of people are scared my neighborhood is like that, but that's ridiculous.  I walk around my neighborhood at night.  The neighborhood over the hill from me has a much worse reputation, and I bike through it at night.  I'm more afraid of getting run over than violence.   

If the stats don't say you're at risk of getting physically hurt, bike through and see what happens.  If you get threatened, taunted, yelled at, whatever, then don't go back.  There's a good chance you will bike through and nothing will happen.

I respectfully disagree with you. Because OP said "Now a danish ghetto is not as dangerous as say a dangerous area in the states. People don't get shot here regularly, but we are in a place where the police doesn't show up unless they bring 2 or more squad cars." I am pretty adventurous, and usually all about trying out everything at least once, but not in this case. If the police does not show up alone, why would one want to bike through that area? And like I said above, OP has alternatives, so why should he test this theory?

Also what @ysette9 said ^. It is about personal comfort level. Nothing may happen, but if OP is concerned enough to post on a forum, is that worth trying it out?

dougules

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Re: Would you follow your job into a ghetto?
« Reply #46 on: May 24, 2017, 10:15:54 AM »
Yes, but what I was trying to say is that a lot of neighborhoods that people pass off as "ghettos" are pretty benign.  How do you know it really is a place where you're going to get threatened or taunted?  A lot of people are scared my neighborhood is like that, but that's ridiculous.  I walk around my neighborhood at night.  The neighborhood over the hill from me has a much worse reputation, and I bike through it at night.  I'm more afraid of getting run over than violence.   

If the stats don't say you're at risk of getting physically hurt, bike through and see what happens.  If you get threatened, taunted, yelled at, whatever, then don't go back.  There's a good chance you will bike through and nothing will happen.

I respectfully disagree with you. Because OP said "Now a danish ghetto is not as dangerous as say a dangerous area in the states. People don't get shot here regularly, but we are in a place where the police doesn't show up unless they bring 2 or more squad cars." I am pretty adventurous, and usually all about trying out everything at least once, but not in this case. If the police does not show up alone, why would one want to bike through that area? And like I said above, OP has alternatives, so why should he test this theory?

Also what @ysette9 said ^. It is about personal comfort level. Nothing may happen, but if OP is concerned enough to post on a forum, is that worth trying it out?

If you're thinking about leaving a job over it, yes, I would think that it's pretty important to try to find out the real truth about the neighborhood.  Overhyping how bad a place is has real consequences.

EnjoyIt

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Re: Would you follow your job into a ghetto?
« Reply #47 on: May 24, 2017, 10:29:44 AM »
If there is real concern for safety I would quit.  Life is too short to risk unnecessarily for some money.

I would talk with the rest of your coworkers and see if you can join together in expressing your concerns.  I would also let management know about those fears and you willingness to find employment somewhere else.

Linda_Norway

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Re: Would you follow your job into a ghetto?
« Reply #48 on: May 29, 2017, 07:26:34 AM »
When I mentioned this to my DH, he wondered why your boss would be moving to such a location. What kind of impression do they want to make on their customers? And would you like to work at a company that worries so little about how your company presents itself? He would probably quite, unless there was a very good reason why the company moved exactly there, for example because many of the customers live their.

gaja

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Re: Would you follow your job into a ghetto?
« Reply #49 on: May 29, 2017, 08:23:40 AM »
When I mentioned this to my DH, he wondered why your boss would be moving to such a location. What kind of impression do they want to make on their customers? And would you like to work at a company that worries so little about how your company presents itself? He would probably quite, unless there was a very good reason why the company moved exactly there, for example because many of the customers live their.

OP says she/he works in the public sector. It is quite common in the Nordic countries to use location of government agencies for political reasons. In Norway, most of the public debate is about how far from the capitol you can move the state administration, but we have also seen examples of forced relocations to relatively shady parts of city centres with next to no parking. The good thing is that it works; after a few years with constant attention from sober, well educated people, the areas usually improve. The bad thing is how it affects the employees. But honestly, in my opinion, even the worst parts of our cities are relatively safe, especially during the day time.
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