Author Topic: would we be better if government was run by corporations?  (Read 6068 times)

mohawkbrah

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would we be better if government was run by corporations?
« on: August 08, 2016, 06:15:26 AM »
Completely random and probably has not much to do with MMM but i've been toying witht he idea of what our world would be like if the coutnrys were run by corporations.

Lets use USA as an example. I would imagine the system would run like a current democracy where as the corporation that wins the most votes is top dog. But  instead it would work like a share holder.

Apple has 27% of the peoples vote so they have a 27% controlling power in how the country is run
Goldstein 53% etc etc
Mom and pop's shoe shop 0.04%- anything under 1% gets lumped into an independent power where the independents elect their own representative.

But the main point of my question is, would corporations run things better than politicians. as we all know businesses like to keep things efficient and cheaper to run when they can. Or would they become immortal overlords enslaving us all in debt and harvest our organs to fuel their immortality. :D



yes im bored and have too much time on my hands

makincaid

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Re: would we be better if government was run by corporations?
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2016, 06:18:45 AM »
Are you sure corporations don't run the government now?

Fishindude

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Re: would we be better if government was run by corporations?
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2016, 06:20:24 AM »
I think about 80% of government activity could be privatized and performed cheaper and more efficiently.

mohawkbrah

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Re: would we be better if government was run by corporations?
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2016, 06:20:42 AM »
Are you sure corporations don't run the government now?

da illoominaughty!

maybe we should just cut out the middlemen (politicians) and let our dolla overlords take control

Jouer

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Re: would we be better if government was run by corporations?
« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2016, 06:23:14 AM »
No. A corporation's mandate is to make money. There is more to running a country than making/saving money - whether you prefer small or big government, they are there to make life better for the citizens. A very different mandate than that of a corporation.

Also, nice one -->
Are you sure corporations don't run the government now?

mohawkbrah

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Re: would we be better if government was run by corporations?
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2016, 06:25:06 AM »
No. A corporation's mandate is to make money. There is more to running a country than making/saving money - whether you prefer small or big government, they are there to make life better for the citizens. A very different mandate than that of a corporation.

Also, nice one -->
Are you sure corporations don't run the government now?

but the corps would be doing the same thing politicians are doing now to incentivise people to vote for them (promise free stuff) because lets be honest everyone is selfish no government official truly cares for it's citizens best interests

GuitarStv

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Re: would we be better if government was run by corporations?
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2016, 06:45:21 AM »
No. A corporation's mandate is to make money. There is more to running a country than making/saving money - whether you prefer small or big government, they are there to make life better for the citizens. A very different mandate than that of a corporation.

+1

Corporations have one goal . . . profit.  They are accountable to private share holders, not to the people who live in a country.  There are many instances where providing for public good is expensive to implement (pollution controls for example) but has tremendous benefits that are not monetary.

Dancin'Dog

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Re: would we be better if government was run by corporations?
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2016, 07:10:18 AM »
Who do you think actually "calls the shots" now? 


HenryDavid

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Re: would we be better if government was run by corporations?
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2016, 07:14:39 AM »
Not all human needs are best met by way of money-for-service transactions.
Consider your need for love and intimacy.
Would you rather purchase these on the market, or enjoy them as a gift based on love and trust?
Door #1 is called prostitution, door #2 is a widely-established human preference

Now think about other basic needs like caring for the ill and elderly; public health; safe streets; safeguarding a healthy natural environment . . .  etc.
Are these better provided by a community based on trust and mutual loyalty, or on a cash basis?

You can say that your nation and its government is too big to be anything like a community based on trust any longer . . . but that's a diagnosis of the relative state of your community, not a reason to opt out of it and go shopping to meet basic human needs.

(The idea that corporations are by nature always better organizations can be disproven by working in one for a while.)

Fishindude

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Re: would we be better if government was run by corporations?
« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2016, 07:38:56 AM »
Indiana used to own a toll road across the northern end of the state.   The state lost money on that road every year  since the day it was built, decades of loss.
Sold it to a private firm and netted a huge windfall of cash for the state.   Private firm now manages the road at a profit.

There are countless things like this being handled by government that could be much better run by private firms.

Sid888

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Re: would we be better if government was run by corporations?
« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2016, 07:44:06 AM »
=what our world would be like if the coutnrys were run by corporations.
would corporations run things better than politicians.

Government is already a corporation.

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Municipal+Corporation

2buttons

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Re: would we be better if government was run by corporations?
« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2016, 07:49:54 AM »
Would need more information on how this might actually work to judge, if its a reasonable thought. 

There would still be one person at the top calling the shots, so not sure how it changes things?  Replace President with a CEO?

Sid888

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Re: would we be better if government was run by corporations?
« Reply #12 on: August 08, 2016, 07:53:15 AM »
Indiana used to own a toll road across the northern end of the state.   The state lost money on that road every year  since the day it was built, decades of loss.
Sold it to a private firm and netted a huge windfall of cash for the state.   Private firm now manages the road at a profit.

There are countless things like this being handled by government that could be much better run by private firms.

It would certainly make the coups and transfers of assets to the victors more efficient and orderly if only one person needs be eliminated and replaced and shares reissued...

acroy

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Re: would we be better if government was run by corporations?
« Reply #13 on: August 08, 2016, 07:58:59 AM »
Are you sure corporations don't run the government now?
^^ haha!
Yeah! we have the 'Best government money can buy'!
When government (or generally any person, or any group of people) is not held accountable, they are going to do what is in their best interest, not in the best interest of the society.
So - start by holding your local government accountable!! Authority with no accountability = abuse. It is human nature.
We're all wigging out about the Presidential election. Anyone here involved on the local, precinct level? You can have an effect there, and help set the tone!

Back to OP's question: I think more of it should be competitively outsourced. Start be ending USPS, Fanny, Freddie, DHS, Dept of Education.... a few others. I think the value they bring does not justify their enormous costs.

TrulyStashin

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Re: would we be better if government was run by corporations?
« Reply #14 on: August 08, 2016, 08:23:57 AM »
No. A corporation's mandate is to make money. There is more to running a country than making/saving money - whether you prefer small or big government, they are there to make life better for the citizens. A very different mandate than that of a corporation.

+1

Corporations have one goal . . . profit.  They are accountable to private share holders, not to the people who live in a country.  There are many instances where providing for public good is expensive to implement (pollution controls for example) but has tremendous benefits that are not monetary.

+1 

We seem to have completely forgotten or abandoned the concept of a "public good" -- "A public good is a product that one individual can consume without reducing its availability to another individual, and from which no one is excluded."  http://www.investopedia.com/terms/p/public-good.asp#ixzz4GkaHayb4

Examples:  education, the criminal justice system, parks, fire fighting/ EMS, roads/ airports/ ports/ rail/ transit, sidewalks, libraries, sewer & water systems, national defense etc. etc.  Sometimes, some functions are a blend of public & private good, for example:  the airwaves, the electrical grid.  Private interests are allowed to operate and profit from these functions but only under strict oversight from government.

Government is NOT a business.  It does not function like a business and it cannot because it is in charge of providing public goods which are not amenable to a for-profit structure.  Business people generally make lousy government officials because the rules of the game they know do not apply to government.  We'd be much better off if we killed this canard, once and for all.




dougules

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Re: would we be better if government was run by corporations?
« Reply #15 on: August 08, 2016, 09:49:22 AM »
This has already happened in history.  Read up on the British East India Company. 
« Last Edit: August 08, 2016, 09:55:00 AM by dougules »

Drifterrider

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Re: would we be better if government was run by corporations?
« Reply #16 on: August 08, 2016, 09:55:35 AM »
Are you sure corporations don't run the government now?

+10

Jrr85

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Re: would we be better if government was run by corporations?
« Reply #17 on: August 08, 2016, 10:22:08 AM »
No. A corporation's mandate is to make money. There is more to running a country than making/saving money - whether you prefer small or big government, they are there to make life better for the citizens. A very different mandate than that of a corporation.

+1

Corporations have one goal . . . profit.  They are accountable to private share holders, not to the people who live in a country.  There are many instances where providing for public good is expensive to implement (pollution controls for example) but has tremendous benefits that are not monetary.

+1 

We seem to have completely forgotten or abandoned the concept of a "public good" -- "A public good is a product that one individual can consume without reducing its availability to another individual, and from which no one is excluded."  http://www.investopedia.com/terms/p/public-good.asp#ixzz4GkaHayb4

Examples:  education, the criminal justice system, parks, fire fighting/ EMS, roads/ airports/ ports/ rail/ transit, sidewalks, libraries, sewer & water systems, national defense etc. etc.  Sometimes, some functions are a blend of public & private good, for example:  the airwaves, the electrical grid.  Private interests are allowed to operate and profit from these functions but only under strict oversight from government.

Government is NOT a business.  It does not function like a business and it cannot because it is in charge of providing public goods which are not amenable to a for-profit structure.  Business people generally make lousy government officials because the rules of the game they know do not apply to government.  We'd be much better off if we killed this canard, once and for all.

Education is not a public good, at least not by the common economic definition of non-excludability and non-rivalrous consumption.  National defense is the obvious one.  Roads I think qualify because it's not feasible to have tolls everywhere.  Then you have natural monopolies.  And of course a lot of stuff is a public good until you create a property rights system (grazing rights; fishing rights, etc.)

Northwestie

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Re: would we be better if government was run by corporations?
« Reply #18 on: August 08, 2016, 11:07:28 AM »
This is a silly question.  Yea - given the track record of the vast majority of corporations these days run themselves ragged to make the quarterly stock expectations and demands of stock holders for short term gains - no, I see no advantage of privatizing, even more, our government workings.

Even the USPS, which definitely has issues - what private firm would take on guarantee delivery of mail to any house in the U.S. - , or put up long term investments for research that had on payout guarantee.   Yea - privatize SS - given how the numerous Wall Street and banking meltdowns have only ended in public bailouts - Id' say the government is already propping them up enough as it is.

There is an inherent need to be concerned about the public good and how we treat those on the lower rungs of society.  While capitalism appears the best of the systems for distributing goods and services - it is an unyielding system and can crush the less fortunate if not checked.  Even Allen Greenspan now has given pause to the free market syndrome and said he was mistaken that the market can take care of itself. 

Government run as a business may be a wet dream of Grover Norquest, but it is not practical or desirable. 

Fishindude

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Re: would we be better if government was run by corporations?
« Reply #19 on: August 08, 2016, 11:49:51 AM »
Even the USPS, which definitely has issues - what private firm would take on guarantee delivery of mail to any house in the U.S.

FedX & UPS come to mind.

Northwestie

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Re: would we be better if government was run by corporations?
« Reply #20 on: August 08, 2016, 11:57:26 AM »
Even the USPS, which definitely has issues - what private firm would take on guarantee delivery of mail to any house in the U.S.

FedX & UPS come to mind.

At the same cost as the USPS??  Hardly.  They can manage the premium they get on Amazon deliveries but regular mail for every farmhouse in Nebraska?   No one would want to take on that burden unless there was a huge cost-shift in place to subsidize rural delivery.

iwasjustwondering

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Re: would we be better if government was run by corporations?
« Reply #21 on: August 08, 2016, 11:59:03 AM »
Ever been on hold with Cablevision customer service?  I will take the DMV any day.

GuitarStv

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Re: would we be better if government was run by corporations?
« Reply #22 on: August 08, 2016, 12:25:58 PM »
Even the USPS, which definitely has issues - what private firm would take on guarantee delivery of mail to any house in the U.S.

FedX & UPS come to mind.

At the same cost as the USPS??  Hardly.  They can manage the premium they get on Amazon deliveries but regular mail for every farmhouse in Nebraska?   No one would want to take on that burden unless there was a huge cost-shift in place to subsidize rural delivery.

I'll always get stuff shipped to me in Canada from the US by USPS if possible.  FedEx and UPS will charge a border crossing fee.  This fee is not customs, is not the fee that they collect from the shipper of the item, and is not a tax.  It's just an extra fuck you for using their service to ship across the border.

2buttons

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Re: would we be better if government was run by corporations?
« Reply #23 on: August 08, 2016, 01:17:47 PM »
I wonder with technology advancements when USPS will be viewed as what it is starting to become, the US taxpayer subsidizing business mailings.  To me its becoming another form of corporate welfare. 

With email alone, all my bills are now electronic. I even pay the IRS online and get a receipt via email.

That said, we would need more competition against big mailing. 

Fishindude

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Re: would we be better if government was run by corporations?
« Reply #24 on: August 08, 2016, 01:36:52 PM »
Hell no, FedX and UPS won't send a letter to grandma in Nebraska for $0.49 like the USPS does, they need to charge $7-10 which is exactly what the USPS should be charging in order to operate in the black.   Like many government entities, the USPS continues to operate in the red because we allow it to.   $0.49 Postage is pretty nice, but it's also pretty stupid considering the fincial condition of the federal government.   They could close tomorrow and somebody would step in and take care of business.

If you think about it, getting a letter to grandma three states away for $7.00 is still a heck of a bargain.

TrulyStashin

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Re: would we be better if government was run by corporations?
« Reply #25 on: August 08, 2016, 02:17:45 PM »
The average lifespan of a company listed in the S & P 500 is a mere 18 years.  Our government is 240 years old.  Imagine how many companies have been born and died in that span of time. 

Interestingly, the companies that endure are the ones that cultivated room to waste resources:

https://hbr.org/2014/04/the-art-of-corporate-endurance

scottish

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Re: would we be better if government was run by corporations?
« Reply #26 on: August 08, 2016, 03:51:58 PM »
Nope.

It might help if government bureaucrats where held accountable for achieving results though.

Thinking about the new federal pay system "Phoenix" here.    Also the PPA scandal in Alberta.   

ncornilsen

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Re: would we be better if government was run by corporations?
« Reply #27 on: August 08, 2016, 04:24:28 PM »
I don't know that I want a for-profit private corporation to make the decisions, but I do believe that the administration and operation of a lot of government functions would do better with some profit motive involved.

Someone said that the average corporation only has a life of 18 years, like it was a bad thing. Seems like the turnover could clear the dead wood and nonsense that tends to accumulate in any organization managed by people.

Northwestie

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Re: would we be better if government was run by corporations?
« Reply #28 on: August 08, 2016, 04:59:19 PM »
Hell no, FedX and UPS won't send a letter to grandma in Nebraska for $0.49 like the USPS does, they need to charge $7-10 which is exactly what the USPS should be charging in order to operate in the black.   Like many government entities, the USPS continues to operate in the red because we allow it to.   $0.49 Postage is pretty nice, but it's also pretty stupid considering the fincial condition of the federal government.   They could close tomorrow and somebody would step in and take care of business.

If you think about it, getting a letter to grandma three states away for $7.00 is still a heck of a bargain.

Talk to your Congress-person.  The last few times rate increases have been put forward Congress squashed it.  The costs should go up -- but if it were private add on the profit and then the CEO pay and bonuses.

Northwestie

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Re: would we be better if government was run by corporations?
« Reply #29 on: August 08, 2016, 05:00:02 PM »
Ever been on hold with Cablevision customer service?  I will take the DMV any day.

Comcast =  Devil

renata ricotta

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Re: would we be better if government was run by corporations?
« Reply #30 on: August 08, 2016, 05:32:13 PM »
We do have a lot of public works and utilities run by private companies; in some contexts it works mostly fine, but government oversight and regulation are crucial to avoid predatory monopolies (see railroads 100 years ago, lots of electric companies, cable). Other times the experiment has gone horribly, like for-profit jails (google about the scandals where it was revealed that some judges were getting kickbacks for sentencing juveniles to detention facilities).

w/r/t the OP's original scenario, where companies have a share of government control based on market value (I get that policy follows money now, but not nearly this directly or precisely), I expect it would be unstable turmoil. Think of all the hundreds of thousands of people employed and billions of dollars that scrupulously watch the Dow and every micro-percentage of movement, which can shift wildly within hours. Would it be like that, but with shifts in government power, and all the law enforcement and brute military strength and nuclear codes and foreign policy power that goes with it? Could a billionaire "angel investor" prop up the value of a particular company and run a puppet government? What does 27% of federal power look like? Votes in congress? Who controls the executive and the judiciary?

rocketpj

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Re: would we be better if government was run by corporations?
« Reply #31 on: August 08, 2016, 06:11:58 PM »
Corporations are the opposite of good governance.

If it is more profitable to lock people up then that is what will happen.  If it is profitable to build gas chambers then there is a corporation that will/has done it.  If it is profitable to deny life saving care to someone (even if they've paid insurance for 40 years) there is a corporation doing that right now.

And what makes you think that businesses are more efficient than governments?  Are you not paying attention?  I know its an article of faith for small government conservatives, but there is little evidence to support it outside of fantasy.


Ryo

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Re: would we be better if government was run by corporations?
« Reply #32 on: August 08, 2016, 10:43:28 PM »
as we all know businesses like to keep things efficient and cheaper to run when they can.

Ha!  I recommend you read that thread on Not Working at Work.   Many insiders perspectives there on just how "efficient" many businesses actually are.

Bertram

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Re: would we be better if government was run by corporations?
« Reply #33 on: August 09, 2016, 04:47:03 AM »
Apple has 27% of the peoples vote so they have a 27% controlling power in how the country is run
Goldstein 53% etc etc
Mom and pop's shoe shop 0.04%- anything under 1% gets lumped into an independent power where the independents elect their own representative.

But the main point of my question is, would corporations run things better than politicians.

I am sorry, but that doesn't even make sense as a question. Instead of voting for parties and their candidates, you want to vote for corporations and their candidates. In the end you're always voting for people, and people will do what people do. How is there any mechanism in your proposal which would ensure any more efficiency? If todays party decided to incorporate, do you think they would magically be more efficient?

Bertram

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Re: would we be better if government was run by corporations?
« Reply #34 on: August 09, 2016, 04:54:38 AM »
At least read up on
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulatory_capture

Not even mentioning it, or the mechanisms behind it, really makes me wonder whether this is just another case of trolls trolling trolls...