Worth it or not worth it? or OMD syndrome?

[mistymoney]

When FIRE may be possible, but you're just not sure and taking it one day at a time!

Hopefully, @lhamo will approve of me spinning this off into a stand alone thread. This conversation started on a case study thread, and one thing lhamo shared really stuck with me, and I finally implemented it.

[mistymoney]

I also started tracking how much I was earning daily for each day I managed to not quit.  The paid days off were highlighted as "Money for Nothing" in my spreadsheet and gave me a little mental/emotional boost every time I was able to take them.  I managed to stick it out an extra 6 months or so

this has really stuck with, and I find myself thinking about it. lhamo, could you share any more details about how you tracked it?

One thing I've identifed, is that based on my current saving per paycheck, each working day (worked or PTO!) adds about $6.50 to my annual life time spend amount (based on 4% WR). At the end of a hard day, I think, thats another $6.50 a year for life!

I sadly lost that spreadsheet, or at least can't find it on current computer.  Don't think I was that sophisticated about it.  My annual salary+bonus + employer retirement contribution at the time was around 75k.  So I divided that by 260 (=52*5) to approximate the number of weekdays in a year that presumably I was being compensated for either by being paid for a work day or getting paid for holidays/PTO.  I was in a fortunate position of not having to pay income taxes at the time due to the Foreign Earned Income Exclusion,

Each weekday was worth roughly $288.50
For every week I was able to hang on, I was bringing in an additional $1442.5

I just made a little calendar in excel and would add in the amounts a few times a week.  This started in early August, after I had a major confrontation with psycho boss and he basically told me to shut up and do what I was told or leave.  I bit my tongue because I really wanted to finish my projects and not quite on the spot.  But from that point on I planned out "free money" days every 2-3 weeks for the rest of the year so I had something to look forward to/hang on for.  I had them highlighted on the calendar and there were quite a few times when knowing that I only had to work few more days before I would get "free money" kept me from quitting.  I also applied for the language fellowship that eventually allowed me to make the break while saving face for everyone (org was allowed to state I was taking an unpaid leave of absence, and I COULD have eventually gone back, but I landed my next job before I had to worry about that).

It was probably not the most psychologically healthy way to handle things but it worked at the time.

Can't beleive this thread is "not posted in for 120 days" already!

I finally put together this calendar page in excel to track this. I was surprised when I reviewed your post Ihamo, that you had mentioned the "bad boss"! I had not remember that aspect of it.

While I have had this in the back of my mind all this time (apparently, over 4 months?), I did not activate it until a recent bad meeting with my boss, and really needed to know how much I was really getting ahead on the day to day basis.

My number is $422/day. I've included some inputted benefits (employer cost of health, life, dental, vision, and legal benefits, STD, LTD, etc), the 401k match of course, minus taxes, and also inputed 'extra' earned benefit onto my monthly social security check. I divided the 2 week paycheck by 14 to include the weekends for a few reasons. We have not infrequent weekend meetings with external stakeholders, and I've come to realize this past year how much residual stress I hold onto over the weekend, and even on longer vacations. This alone has me cueing up an exit as soon as I feel a little more confidence in my numbers and plan.

I record the day, the 422, and then the finale of "Worth it" or "Not worth it"

I started it on the day of the 'incident', which was a big fat Not worth it. However, that day was followed by a very quiet day (in which boss did not answer my followup email regarding next steps as pertain to the incident.

Every day thereafter has been Worth it, just based on zero communications with the boss, I suppose, oh and no meetings :).

I also want to incorporate some measure of what each day is purchasing me in terms of FI, and confidence/assurity of FI in perpetuity as it were. I'm fairly confident I can retire about now, or later this year in particular. My spreadsheet does not include me needing to pay for 2025 expenses out of savings, so that would ruin my perfection/assurity that I can make it a decade without the worry about the sorr. Well - on the stock market valuations at any rate! Runaway inflation or other financial calamities would still apply!

Thinking about making this topic a new thread? I at least find these psychological calculations interesting.

[mistymoney]

https://imgur.com/v3WvG1c

[okits]

Ten years ago I had a spreadsheet like this.  What each additional day of sticking it out meant, monetarily.

We didn't have as much money back then, and so I cared a lot about the dollars mentioned on each line.

We have more, now, so in the same scenario I would be able to focus on the spreadsheet itself.  How having a spreadsheet like that means you need to GTFO.

(I realize you are already planning your exit, so good for you.  Don't leave it too late.  Hope you get to leave that stress behind soon!)

[mspym]

In my last two contracts, I had a little tracker in my notebook where I would X out every week remaining in the contract. It was super valuable to remind myself that despite 6 months feeling *endless*, it's also only 26 weeks and it fits into a very small set of squares. But to Okits point, that I had this tracker was not the healthiest sign?

[cangelosibrown]

Way back in the day when I truly disliked my job, my meeting coping strategy sometimes was to work out, long hand on paper, my salary per minute of being at work. I'd try to add in all the extras I could think of on the $ side, and subtract everything I could think of from the time side to make the number as big as I could. Was a pretty good way of killing time during particularly painful meetings, and always left me feeling better.

When I was FIREing (the first time), I made a spreadsheet that calculated the marginal taxes for the year if I quit on any given day, adding in expected bonus amount,etc. So I ended up with the amount per day I earned for the calendar year, assuming I quit any given day. This was more of a planning exercise, but it also made it easier to get to the decided upon date.

[lhamo]

Since something I did back in the day I was the inspiration for this thread, I feel like I should also pipe in to say:

It was a coping mechanism that got me through one of the worst periods of my professional life, but it was NOT the ideal approach.  If I had been better resourced at the time, the time and energy I put into that spreadsheet would have been much better spent working on some of the long-standing mental health stuff that had led me to be in the position I was in.  Why was I so invested in a job that was doing so much damage to me?  Why was I not able to turn and focus on the parts of my life that were, in reality, MUCH more important than my job?  Why was what I had not ENOUGH when it was clearly so much more than most people in the world have?

It's fine.  I made it to FIRE eventually and have an amicable relationship with TheX and our kids don't hate us.  But I am still trying hard to unlearn the bad habits I have about obsessing over spreadsheets and money when I don't really need to.  Treating the underlying anxiety you have about finances is probably a better investment of time/energy than yet another spreadsheet you spend multiple hours of your day/week/month/year/life over.

[mistymoney]

How having a spreadsheet like that means you need to GTFO.

But to Okits point, that I had this tracker was not the healthiest sign?

Yes, thanks for emphasizing this. I do agree I am not in an ideal situation and I need to also think bigger picture to myself, my life, what this is doing to me, even in just the very short term.

This was more of a planning exercise, but it also made it easier to get to the decided upon date.

Yes - while focusing on the motivation to keep it going until I decide I have enough money, and have planned everything out and feel somewhat confident of the result - it is also helping me to assess the situation more fully. I feel like I either over-dwell on things, or block them out completely, and not sure if I am over or under reacting to these kinds of situations.

I think if I see how many days are worth it vs not worth, and once I get my metrics down for overall confidence in FI-ness and then the ongoing additive confidence in FI-ness from the day to day - I can get a real feel for my next steps.

I'm also in the middle of correcting some vitamin deficiencies my dr identified last year, so those may be at play in how I've been feeling and reacting to stress as well. Will see if they are corrected at the follow up visit and then reassess.

 

[mistymoney]

It was a coping mechanism that got me through one of the worst periods of my professional life, but it was NOT the ideal approach.  If I had been better resourced at the time, the time and energy I put into that spreadsheet would have been much better spent working on some of the long-standing mental health stuff that had led me to be in the position I was in.  Why was I so invested in a job that was doing so much damage to me?  Why was I not able to turn and focus on the parts of my life that were, in reality, MUCH more important than my job?  Why was what I had not ENOUGH when it was clearly so much more than most people in the world have?

It's fine.  I made it to FIRE eventually and have an amicable relationship with TheX and our kids don't hate us.  But I am still trying hard to unlearn the bad habits I have about obsessing over spreadsheets and money when I don't really need to.  Treating the underlying anxiety you have about finances is probably a better investment of time/energy than yet another spreadsheet you spend multiple hours of your day/week/month/year/life over.

this is also a valuable perspective for me to consider. And I do plan to invest time in this the next few months.

I am hoping the current stress spike and corresponding incident blow over relative easily and I can continue my data gathering. I think now that I have the file set up, will only be a minute or two each day to fill out and then maybe think about trends for a few to 30 minutes on the weekend. i have 6 weeks of vacation this year, and likely have 6 or more banked sick time. Need to focus on scheduling those days off for free money like you talked about to beef up the "Worth it" numbers.

And give myself time to figure out all the other stuff.

[mistymoney]

Today was a quiet day and very worth it, at least so far! There is time for something.

Yesterday was not too bad, but I was woken up repeated and finally getting some sleep when the alarm went off far too early and then had a late off-hours meeting that ran 1/2 hour longer than scheduled. I added a Draw category.

My further obssessive evaluation brought the following metric, that under an otherwise static Rich, Broke or Dead? model, 6 weeks adds 1% of surety to the retirement funding.

I just added a dollar amount in two week intervals ($422*14). It isn't really adding $422, more like not subtracting $422, or some add and some not subtracted? so maybe I should reassess that. maybe tomorrow. Maybe just use the 6 weeks ~ 1% and go with it.

My level-headed, proactive outline of next steps regarding 'the incident' went unanswered.

I have 7 weeks sick time and over 3 weeks vacation in the bank. Will earn another 3 weeks by years end. Scheduled a 5 day weekend mid-february so mini goal is to hold on and reassess after that time off.

Will take a full sick day for any appointments this year and some mental health days.

[lhamo]

Do you qualify for FMLA? Scattering in some unpaid leave to address health issues (remember mental health is also health) might drop your weekly worth it rate a bit but make stretching things out more doable.

[mistymoney]

Do you qualify for FMLA? Scattering in some unpaid leave to address health issues (remember mental health is also health) might drop your weekly worth it rate a bit but make stretching things out more doable.

I've considered it, and I can use my sick days for it too I think. I have sick days piled up due to *responsibilities* where if I'm able to sit at my computer there are always meetings and deadline that I *can't miss*. I remember those from 25 years ago at a company long since disolved and absorbed by the competitor and I know how meaningless these ones will be too in the future.

But if I can take some period sick time regularly under FMLA, that could up the worth it! If I could just take all my sick and vacation time all at once, would be a little sabatical! 10 weeks off with pay would be a delight. Wishful thinking.

I'm in the bottom of the bowl and hard to think things through or plan. I need to start my physical screenings and tests - but need to add in the mental health component too.

I think any day I have to wake to an alarm is going to be a not worth it right now, like today. I have noticed that insomnia happens just knowing I have an early meeting/alarm in play.

Trying to distance myself emotionally from work and all the stresses and just robotically go through everything. At least tomorrow is Friday adn I have a 100% non-working weekend.

But I think lining up some mental health evals and considering FMLA would be a good thing to pursue.

[Much Fishing to Do]

Thats all very interesting.  There was a point in time where I would look at what my business returned in the past month and divided it by 300 to see how much, assuming a 4% SWR, it basically added to my monthly FIRE spend (which was a number that had some tangible meaning to me).
The business income was extremely volatile so there were both a lot of 'Wows' and a lot of 'well, crap'.