Winter Fat Biking

[peterpatch]

I want to ride a bike as transportation during the winter. I live in Toronto and the winters here can be fairly brutal for biking due to snow, slush, ice, cold etc.

I have researched my options and the best option I have found is a fat bike with studded tires.

The fat bike tires should provide enough ‘float’ for me to take my usual bike trail route to work, even in most fresh snow conditions. If I stud the tires it makes it safe to ride in super icy conditions.

The bike and studding in the video link below seems to be the best setup I could find from a cost/benefit perspective:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oweW948dKVM


I know I will need to get hand protection and face protection from the cold. I will also need to get a backpack for my work gear.

I am ok shelling out the 1 or two grand for the equipment as long as it is high quality and long lasting enough to amortize well compared to bus fare.

Does anyone here do a winter biking commute? Any suggestions?

[skyrefuge]

I seem to be the only crotchety old man here not seduced by the current fatbike trend, so feel free to keep that in mind while reading on.

Fatbikes were invented only a year or two ago (or at least that's when the copycatting exploded: the Norco fatbike in that video didn't exist before 2014). So that means tons of people have been successfully bike commuting in winter long before fatbikes existed, even in Toronto. A fatbike might make it easier, but easier enough to justify the $1500+ cost? (and depending on the fluffy snow/dry pavement ratio, that's debatable, since the fatbike will make you a lot slower on dry pavement than a normal bike.)

I bought a set of studded tires for my normal commuter bike some years back. They're definitely great on ice, but the drag, sluggishness, and noise on dry pavement tend to put me off, so I've really gotten very little use out of them, much less than I expected at the time. But maybe my route, plus the snow-clearing efforts in Chicagoland, lead to far fewer snow/ice-covered days and miles than you'd encounter, so it's easier for me to just not bike on those days, and use my normal tires for all the other winter days?

I would just say that you actually work out the math on how bad the winters have to be over how many years in order for your bus fares to come close to the price of the bike. Seems like $1500 could pay for a lot of bus rides. And do those studs come out in the summer? Or do you need to spend another $120 to get a second set of stud-free fat-tires? Or would the fatbike be used exclusively as a snowy-weather commuter?

Bike commuting through a snowy winter usually trashes bike components to hell (due to salt + water), so people often use a crappy old bike for their winter commuter rather than a brand-new really-expensive bike. So the idea of spending on a "high quality" bike and expecting it to last for many winters may be the wrong approach. It seems like you could put those studs just as easily into tires on an old mountain bike you pick up on Craiglist, and that would be a more versatile and useful bike anyway.

Hmm, but your mention of needing to get a backpack really throws me off. Are you not already commuting to work by bike? If not, I'd say don't get any bike for winter commuting until you're a lot more familiar with summer commuting. Spend the summer doing that, and as many days this winter as you can, and then for next winter you'll have a lot more knowledge to help you decide what might be beneficial (if anything) to help you ride those days you couldn't this winter.

[Russ]

I seem to be the only crotchety old man here not seduced by the current fatbike trend, so feel free to keep that in mind while reading on.

No you aren't, you're just the only person who thinks the bike industry is out to get you.

OP: Fatbikes are fun but are not meant for your use case, especially considering that Toronto bike paths are plowed. You can punch through 3-4" of fresh powder pretty easily on ~40mm knobbies (or smaller!), and I sincerely doubt that there would be a day worse than that where you would be expected to show up to work. The fatbike will be unimaginably slow every other day of the year, which you will regret.

Studded tires are great if you expect ice, but just buy studded tires. They will be designed to put the studs in the right places, and you will lose those screw in studs in a hurry anyway.

Don't think you can buy your way into making winter commuting fun & comfortable. It's all in the head.

[peterpatch]

I seem to be the only crotchety old man here not seduced by the current fatbike trend, so feel free to keep that in mind while reading on.

Fatbikes were invented only a year or two ago (or at least that's when the copycatting exploded: the Norco fatbike in that video didn't exist before 2014). So that means tons of people have been successfully bike commuting in winter long before fatbikes existed, even in Toronto. A fatbike might make it easier, but easier enough to justify the $1500+ cost? (and depending on the fluffy snow/dry pavement ratio, that's debatable, since the fatbike will make you a lot slower on dry pavement than a normal bike.)

I bought a set of studded tires for my normal commuter bike some years back. They're definitely great on ice, but the drag, sluggishness, and noise on dry pavement tend to put me off, so I've really gotten very little use out of them, much less than I expected at the time. But maybe my route, plus the snow-clearing efforts in Chicagoland, lead to far fewer snow/ice-covered days and miles than you'd encounter, so it's easier for me to just not bike on those days, and use my normal tires for all the other winter days?

I would just say that you actually work out the math on how bad the winters have to be over how many years in order for your bus fares to come close to the price of the bike. Seems like $1500 could pay for a lot of bus rides. And do those studs come out in the summer? Or do you need to spend another $120 to get a second set of stud-free fat-tires? Or would the fatbike be used exclusively as a snowy-weather commuter?

Bike commuting through a snowy winter usually trashes bike components to hell (due to salt + water), so people often use a crappy old bike for their winter commuter rather than a brand-new really-expensive bike. So the idea of spending on a "high quality" bike and expecting it to last for many winters may be the wrong approach. It seems like you could put those studs just as easily into tires on an old mountain bike you pick up on Craiglist, and that would be a more versatile and useful bike anyway.

Hmm, but your mention of needing to get a backpack really throws me off. Are you not already commuting to work by bike? If not, I'd say don't get any bike for winter commuting until you're a lot more familiar with summer commuting. Spend the summer doing that, and as many days this winter as you can, and then for next winter you'll have a lot more knowledge to help you decide what might be beneficial (if anything) to help you ride those days you couldn't this winter.

Thanks for the thoughtful and detailed response.

This forum is probably too heavily biased towards us young pups and needs some of that old dog wisdom to keep us balanced :-)

I do commute to work on a bike when there is no snow on the ground. I don't think my bike is fit for a winter commute on the bike trail I use in Toronto. Here is a picture of the bike for reference:



I don't think I could get wide winter tires on it that would work with the splash guards and frame structure.

I use my full grain leather brief case as a pannier bag which works great but I wouldn't want to get it covered in road salt over the winter. I would get a backpack for the winter because it would also be useful in other situations

I will definitely check out the old used mountain bike option, that might just work for me and save me a lot of money. I know I would probably spend about $400 on Toronto Transit passes over a winter, so it would probably take 4 to 5 for my original fat bike idea to break even. Also I don't know how fast my investments would depreciate which makes it difficult to determine the actual return on investment. There are other non financial considerations like the exercise that are hard to quantify.

I will look at mountain bike mods and see if there is a good option there for me to use that will work well in snowy bike trail situations.

[Conjou]

I commute year round in North Dakota via bicycle, but I also am an avid recreational biker too. This has led to 3 bikes in my stable: a hybrid for commuting when there is no snow or ice; a mountain bike for trail riding in no snow conditions and with studded tires for commuting in snow; and a Surly ECR that I use for winter trail riding and bikepacking trips. 3 bikes isn't mustachian, I know, but I don't have a vehicle and I like to ride off road in all conditions. What I have learned--from friends and my own experience--is that a fat bike sines on snowy trails but is terrible on icy roads and studded tires are going to make it monstrous to pedal in a commuting situation. It takes some adjustment to the drag, but I prefer my mountain bike with studded tires for winter commuting. They also make studded tires for hybrids too. Might be worth checking out. Finally, studded tires are super expensive but I lucked out to think of checking for a diy version on you tube and was able to make my set for half the price of say Nokian Extremes. I should add that my commute is a 14 miler, round trip, but mostly on bike paths so I don't have the salt worries the other poster mentioned.

[GuitarStv]

I have been commuting year round in Toronto for two years now (biked in the ice storm last year).  I use an inexpensive aluminum hybrid with great success for the task.  Thin tires will punch through the slush, and it's rare for us to have more than a few inches of snow down that really require special tires.  You don't want to use an expensive bike because the amount of salt that we lay down around here will eat your components out in two or three years (and that's if you baby them).  Including the ice storm last year, there were only about three days in the past two years where I wanted studded tires.  The salters work non-stop in the winter.

[Russ]

bro that bike is perfect. strip the fenders 'cause they clog up with slush/ice anyway and you can totally fit some awesome winter studs in there. get a shitty bag and you're golden. also get some iron oxide brake pads so you can stop.

[peterpatch]

bro that bike is perfect. strip the fenders 'cause they clog up with slush/ice anyway and you can totally fit some awesome winter studs in there. get a shitty bag and you're golden. also get some iron oxide brake pads so you can stop.

I am worried that the tires are too thin. I would be riding on a bike trail that is usually groomed in the winter but not salted or totally plowed out. Wouldn't having the thin bike tires cut through all of that snow all the time create major resistance?

I am thinking that I should winterize a cheapish used mountain bike for this purpose and use the thin wheeled bike during the times when there is no snow on the ground.

[ephillipsme]

Crazy bike guy here, I have a fat bike, the benefit is the wide tires float over things like unpacked snow, sand, mud, etc...  there is a added rolling resistance for a fat bike as well. most of these are used for winter riding in the woods or off road where the snow is not packed down.  I use a cycle cross bike in the winter with studded tire, the cycle cross frame is similar to a road bike with availability to handle wider tires, and different brakes, either cantilever (like older mtb) or disk, I mount fenders as well.  I run a studded tire and commute most of the winter in Portland Maine, usually during a storm I don't as you need to be aware of others and snow removal equipment which can make things interesting.

Now if you want to ride in the woods for fun all season a Fat bike rocks. 

[YK-Phil]

I bike all year round, in Yellowknife where I work, or Calgary where I reside. In Yellowknife, we are a very small group of 6 people who bike throughout the winter, even in temperatures as low as -45 C. One of us is a young doctor who rides a $2,000+ fat bike. Good for her. My Yellowknife ride is an old hard tail GT Palomar MTB bought for $100. I use it in Yellowknife in winter with a front studded tire, and a regular MTB tire in the summer. That's about it for equipment, and so far, I am pretty happy with this setup. I would love receiving a $2,000 fat bike, or a touring/road bike as a present, but I would never consider spending that kind of money for a bike.

[cbgg]

Fat bikes are super fun to ride - got to try them out extensively at Outerbike last year!

One thing I'd consider is to not buy a carbon fat bike (lots of them are carbon fiber these days to make them light - thus fun to ride).  Carbon fiber is not good for commuting anyway, and is very susceptible to damage from salt.  Carbon frames are much more dangerous when damaged (sudden snap failures) and don't last as long in rugged conditions.

[Thegoblinchief]

I noticed a huge difference in traction going to THINNER tires, not fatter ones. Fat bikes are silly. My hybrid got WAY better traction than my old MTB with ~55mm.

Honestly, what makes MUT shitty in the winter is the very rough snow packed down by pedestrians, and even a fat bike won't help with that. I switch over to all road riding in the winter time.

I made it all the way through last winter with standard 700x35 hybrid tires. I will probably spring for studded tires, but I'm planning to go down in width, probably somewhere around 28-30mm. I just have to double check the bead width on my rims but I'm pretty sure they can take thinner tires.

[Thegoblinchief]

That said, bike shops around my way sell Sun fatbikes around $700 and up (fixed gear).

[Jennifer in Ottawa]

I grew up in the Toronto Burbs and still make the trek back to visit family a few times a year.  The amount of snow Toronto gets and the duration that it lasts has been decreasing steadily year by year, occasional storms notwithstanding.

I honestly think you'd be better off buying some bus tickets and tokens and using public transportation on the few crappy days then in splashing out big bucks for another bike.

[GuitarStv]

I grew up in the Toronto Burbs and still make the trek back to visit family a few times a year.  The amount of snow Toronto gets and the duration that it lasts has been decreasing steadily year by year, occasional storms notwithstanding.

I honestly think you'd be better off buying some bus tickets and tokens and using public transportation on the few crappy days then in splashing out big bucks for another bike.

Agreed, with the caveat that last winter was brutal for snowfall, and around January it seemed like they stopped plowing snow on most side streets/medium sized roads and just waited for it to melt a couple days later.  Previous winters have been laughably mild with regards to snow.

[infogoon]

My winter commuting bike was a fixed-gear roadie with a set of 700c studded tires on it. The fixed gearing makes it really easy to tell when you're starting to slip and recover. It wasn't up to the task of riding on totally unplowed snow, but it handled icy/slushy streets with aplomb.

[peterpatch]

Thanks infogoon,  GuitarStv, Jennifer in Ottawa, Thegoblinchief, cbgg, ykphil, ephillipsme, Russ, Conjou and skyrefuge (I hope I didn't miss anyone)

I think I have enough good feedback now to make a decision.

I see three alternatives

1. Winterize my current bike
2. By a cheap (probably used) mountain bike and winterize it (opinions may vary on things like tire width etc.)
3. Winterized Fat Bike.

It's obvious everyone is recommending a brand new carbon fiber frame fat bike with all the trimmings so that's exactly what I am going to do. Thanks for the advice everyone!




Alright that was a joke. I am going to go with a cheapo used mountain bike and winterize it. I figure if it doesn't work out I can sell it back onto the used market for close to what I bought it for and pay a small fee to learn that it didn't work for me. I don't want to mess with the current bike on salty snowy streets but it's definately a totally mustachian option as well.