Author Topic: Why retirees prefer to keep working... and what it could mean for FI / FIRE  (Read 2968 times)

Bertram

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So I was reading an article (german language regarding german population) which talked about the increase in people that prefer to keep working after reaching their retirement age. The retirement age was increased from 65 to 67. And due to problems similar to Social Security, young people tend to pay in a bit more today, and will receive a bit less. So first thought was: "well, they work because they need to". Not the case though (at least not with the current retiree population)

So interesting enough the data points in another direction. People that had lower wages tend to work less past their retirement age. The rate is highest for people that are well educated and/or self-employed. When the reirees are asked, these are their reasons:

- they want something meaningful to do
- they want to actively participate in society
- they want to stay physically/mentally fit

Work to them is connected to:
- social recognition
- social contacts
- self-realization
- structured days

Retirement to them is connected to:
- isolation
- lacking purpose

I think this is in connection with many of the recent discussions we have had here. It seems that the main driver for a lot of people is not FIRE, it's simply FI. And once you gain that indepedence, it depends on the individual whether they prefer to keep doing what they are already good at (just with a better state of mind and the assurance to say "NO" and know they'll be OK), or whether they are of a generalist mindset that prefers to change up life every once in a while and try their luck at entirely new things.

I've been at the "tired of work" stage, and I thought I needed to become "safe" (FI) before it got worse. But I think the "tired of work" thing is just a phase, something that passes again. It has gotten better. ANd as with a lot of things the really bad times are also what make you appreciate the preciousness of the really good times.

The more I think about it the more I want FI, and the less "RE" seems to really express or be connected in any way to what this whole thing is about, at least for me. I think dropping the RE-part would actually help push certain types of people to FI. It would also - finally - get rid of all the discussions and questioning about people that want to stay engaged with society and community and not live like a hermit/consumer about whether or not they are "really" retired in the narrow sense. If half of retirees are not really retired then why has the term any relevance at all...

jim555

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These are the same people that win the lottery and continue to work at Costco.  No imagination.

Kitsune

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When the reirees are asked, these are their reasons:

- they want something meaningful to do
- they want to actively participate in society
- they want to stay physically/mentally fit

Work to them is connected to:
- social recognition
- social contacts
- self-realization
- structured days

Retirement to them is connected to:
- isolation
- lacking purpose

If retirement = watching TV and sitting on the porch staring at the street (aka: my creepy neighbors across the street from my old apartment, who'd spend all day looking at the street/into my window... god, that looked like a dull life), then yeah, retirement = lacking purpose, and yeah, I'd keep working if those were my only options - dear god, that sounds dismal and dull.

The advantage of being financially independant is that you can look for meaning, social connection, etc, and do it WITHOUT NEEDING A CERTAIN $ AMOUNT OR PUTTING UP WITH BS. So you can volunteer for charity, you can work part-time doing a job you actually enjoy (at 20% of what you were making before, even). Wanna work as a librarian? Tutor people? Build houses? Learn carpentry? Become a seamstress (and, FYI, you can totally make decent amounts of money offering darning/hemming/fixing work)? Garden (I know one semi-retired lady who loves gardening, and she basically turned it into a side-business she enjoys)? Hell, work with farm animals? Run a farmer's market stand? Do cooking demonstrations? What would you do if you weren't tired from 40+ hours/week of doing paid work, if paid work was no longer a concern? What do you wish you could get paid to do? DO THAT.

Continuing to, say, work at Costco because you only see dismal options in retirement shows a profound lack of immagination with regards to how you're living your life. (And Costco is a comparatively GOOD place to work, but, c'mon, people, aim higher!!)

ender

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These are the same people that win the lottery and continue to work at Costco.  No imagination.


... as opposed to the lottery winners who blow all the money in a few years and ruin their lives?


Kitsune

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These are the same people that win the lottery and continue to work at Costco.  No imagination.


... as opposed to the lottery winners who blow all the money in a few years and ruin their lives?

That's just a lack of imagination in the opposite direction.

Bertram

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Well, like I said:
Quote
It seems that the main driver for a lot of people is not FIRE, it's simply FI. And once you gain that indepedence, it depends on the individual whether they prefer to keep doing what they are already good at (just with a better state of mind and the assurance to say "NO" and know they'll be OK), or whether they are of a generalist mindset that prefers to change up life every once in a while and try their luck at entirely new things.

Personally I am a generalist, and I like to learn entirely new things, I don't have a problem with being a beginner and being laughed at. But still, I wouldn't belittle people that fall into the second group: Most people simply like doing what they are good at. And if they are better educated and did something for 30+ years, they probably got good at it. As in the old joke:

Quote
A mainframe computer on which everyone in the office depended suddenly went down. They tried everything but it still wouldn't work. Finally they decided to call in a high-powered computer consultant. He arrived, looked at the computer, took out a small hammer and tapped it on the side. Instantly the computer leapt into life. Two days later the office manager received a bill from the consultant for $1000. Immediately he called the consultant and said, "One thousand dollars for fixing that computer? You were only here five minutes! I want the bill itemized!" The next day the new bill arrived. It read, "Tapping computer with hammer: one dollar. Knowing where to tap: 999 dollars."

Who doesn't like to be the hero that comes in to save the day.

I can see why some people like that better than being a beginner at something new. I don't think it's necessarily down to lack of imagination...