Author Topic: Why Don't More People Seek Earlier Retirement?  (Read 152295 times)

Retired To Win

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Why Don't More People Seek Earlier Retirement?
« on: February 12, 2015, 10:20:20 AM »
If you retire at 67 and live to 85, you have 18 years left to live in post-job freedom.  Find a way to cut the job cord at 58 and you boost that by 50% to 27 years of job-free adult life.  So why don't more people at least shoot for that?  Why doesn't the prospect of living free longer matter more?

It just seems to me that 58 can't be that hard.  Kids grown and out of school, and all that.  Fifty-eight doesn't sound extreme at all.

So why does the majority of people settle for so much less free life?  What do you think?  And what lit the fire in your belly to retire earlier?

Cookie78

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Re: Why Don't More People Seek Earlier Retirement?
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2015, 10:33:05 AM »
I think a lot of people just don't know that they can. They aren't aware of how much they need to retire and they are uninformed about how to invest. Up until I stumbled on this forum I knew I wanted to do something unusual with respect to work/career, but it hadn't even crossed my mind that I could retire early.

Also, I think some people identify themselves as 'what they do for work'. They are so career driven that it is the main thing that matters to them and to give it up would be giving up life. "What else would I do all day?"

Eric

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Re: Why Don't More People Seek Earlier Retirement?
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2015, 10:36:21 AM »
Starbucks

Dr. Doom

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Re: Why Don't More People Seek Earlier Retirement?
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2015, 10:41:32 AM »
There's also the most obvious reason:  The majority of people honestly believe that spending money results in greater happiness.  Having to live below your means registers as pain for most people, and is therefore avoided. 

YOLO, baby, time to blow some money.

gt7152b

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Re: Why Don't More People Seek Earlier Retirement?
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2015, 10:41:38 AM »
Most people just go with the conventional line of thinking. I remember hearing people bitch about never being able to retire when I started work. They would say things like "$1M, hell $2M, is just not enough to retire on these days." That was 15 years ago. It's also extremely conventional to inflate your spending to match your income. Got to treat yourself for that promotion/raise. There are also many conventional fears like: rising cost of college, healthcare, taxes, no SS left. Another quote I remember from my early working days: "Why invest more than the company match in a 401k? We'll probably be paying more taxes in retirement."

 

lizzie

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Re: Why Don't More People Seek Earlier Retirement?
« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2015, 10:43:52 AM »
Honestly, for me it had just never occurred to me. I mean, I'd heard about people retiring in their 50s, but they always seemed like special cases, with early pensions or something. Also I only had the most vague notion of how much money it would take to retire. I figured if we maxed out our retirement accounts--which we always did--we'd be fine and would retire like normal people once we were eligible for Medicare and SS.

It was MMM that changed this all around for me. About a year and a half ago I ran across a link to his clown-car article, which I thought was really funny. And so I read a few other things on his site. I was intrigued but still didn't take it all that seriously--I'm already married with two teenage kids, I didn't really think I could get my family to go along. But the idea kept buzzing around in my head, and finally I ran some numbers and created a spreadsheet for my husband to convince him. Now we're on track to a very comfortable retirement in our 50s (10 years from now). We could still save waaaayy more than we do, but I don't think I can push him any further. Also we plan to put our kids through college, so I can't see retiring before that.

tarheeldan

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Re: Why Don't More People Seek Earlier Retirement?
« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2015, 10:44:01 AM »
Nice one, Eric!

I agree with Cookie78 and gt7152b, most of the mainstream advice says you need $1m or $2m to retire, because they are predicated on replacing the majority of your current income - since the assumption is the savings rate is low (not a bad assumption).

But it was a real eye-opener to read MMM and envision retirement at a much more achievable-looking 650k-750k - and how quickly that can be done with a relatively high savings rate.

Psychstache

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Re: Why Don't More People Seek Earlier Retirement?
« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2015, 10:50:08 AM »
The same reason more people aren't in shape: lack of commitment, discipline, and ability to delay gratification.

andy85

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Re: Why Don't More People Seek Earlier Retirement?
« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2015, 10:53:31 AM »
consumerism and ignorance

Bateaux

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Re: Why Don't More People Seek Earlier Retirement?
« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2015, 11:13:14 AM »
My goal is age 50 or 2 million which ever comes first.  There is a certain lifestyle I want to maintain that I can't get on 500k or 750k.  If you can that's wonderful. I hope to enjoy 20 years of healthy vibrant retirement from 50 to 70 years old. Sailing, hiking and traveling the world.  After 70 you decline.  I've watched people I've known my whole life and 70 is a major switch.  I hope to be in a full time RV status at 70 till I can't do it anymore.

M from Loveland

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Re: Why Don't More People Seek Earlier Retirement?
« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2015, 11:15:32 AM »
I think a lot of people just don't know that they can. They aren't aware of how much they need to retire and they are uninformed about how to invest. Up until I stumbled on this forum I knew I wanted to do something unusual with respect to work/career, but it hadn't even crossed my mind that I could retire early.

Also, I think some people identify themselves as 'what they do for work'. They are so career driven that it is the main thing that matters to them and to give it up would be giving up life. "What else would I do all day?"
+1

rubybeth

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Re: Why Don't More People Seek Earlier Retirement?
« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2015, 11:24:17 AM »
I can give you lots of reasons...

Most people (average person in the US, at least) really has no idea how much money they need to retire, and many people don't even know how much money they actually need to live each month.

Most people also spend whatever they earn, have no 'budget,' or try to save a bit, like 5%-15% based on common 'wisdom' from financial 'experts' and think they are doing well.

They hear reports in the news about the stock market and it's scary. They have no pensions at work.

Even those who live a mostly frugal consumer lifestyle don't really know what it takes to actually retire.

Many people think they need to wait for social security or medicare benefits to leave their employers.

Knowing about financial matters isn't emphasized in our culture, or by our schools. A person can graduate from college without knowing how the interest rates on their student loans will affect the rest of their lives.

They don't know anyone else who has done it (or if they do, they may not realize it... people who retire early sometimes keep quiet about their wealth for lots of reasons), so they have no role models and can't see a path.

I know many otherwise intelligent people who have leased cars, huge mortgages they can't afford, ridiculous student loans, horrendous commutes, etc. and they genuinely don't realize how this will affect their wealth.

trailrated

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Re: Why Don't More People Seek Earlier Retirement?
« Reply #12 on: February 12, 2015, 11:25:21 AM »
Most people just go with the conventional line of thinking. I remember hearing people bitch about never being able to retire when I started work. They would say things like "$1M, hell $2M, is just not enough to retire on these days."

Isn't it strange people complain about how they think they need soooooo much more than they actually do... then rather than working harder to hit a more hefty goal... they actually do even less to achieve it.

Gone Fishing

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Re: Why Don't More People Seek Earlier Retirement?
« Reply #13 on: February 12, 2015, 11:28:50 AM »
A lot of folks spend a lot of money keeping up with the Joneses. 

Nevermind the Joneses:

Make a lot more money

Inherited a lot of money

Are up to their eyeballs in debt

Or the best one of all:

Saved aggressively when they were young so they could afford the things they wanted when they got older!

Numbers Man

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Re: Why Don't More People Seek Earlier Retirement?
« Reply #14 on: February 12, 2015, 11:30:06 AM »
To answer the Op's question - It's due to poor retirement education.

MandyM

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Re: Why Don't More People Seek Earlier Retirement?
« Reply #15 on: February 12, 2015, 11:31:06 AM »
The same reason more people aren't in shape: lack of commitment, discipline, and ability to delay gratification.

I think its this more than anything. People are more worried about today than tomorrow (or worse, they are too worried about yesterday). If they plan for next year they are ahead of the game.

I've always been a saver, but it dawned on me about 10 years ago that I could figure out a way to dump the rat race. I read an article about people that retired super early and I think every single one of them said they read Your Money or Your Life. Once I found MMM in 2012 I learned some new tricks and shaved 4-5 years off of my FIRE date. I should be FI by the end of 2016 and will ER or go part time shortly thereafter.

MooseOutFront

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Re: Why Don't More People Seek Earlier Retirement?
« Reply #16 on: February 12, 2015, 11:33:48 AM »
Yeah I was already unique amongst my peers when I was saving at a clip to be able to retire at 55 with $2.5MM.  Now that sounds like a horribly long work career and I'm saving more than double what I was and spending far less.  So basically the type of early retirement I'm after now is a unicorn that can't even be discussed out loud.  Even people that make a lot are generally unwilling to cut their spending or avoid lifestyle inflation.

boarder42

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Re: Why Don't More People Seek Earlier Retirement?
« Reply #17 on: February 12, 2015, 11:34:58 AM »
its a societal norm to work until you're 60.  Most people don't think about working hard and saving early so they can enjoy life later its where the "i want to enjoy my money now with a good body, what am i going to do with all that money when i'm 65 and cant walk". 

before i found this site i thought i was kicking ass planning to retire at 55 easily with over 5MM in the bank.  I even went out and bought a boat 2 years out of school vs maxing out my 401k b/c i did the math and i'd have way way more money than i needed at 55 to retire.  so i "enjoyed it now" (now i have both boat and a 60% savings rate). 

its just not a normal track of thinking in the western world.  The 'what would you do' comments etc. 

personally i just cant imagine how you can find all of your joy from working.  there is satisfaction in it.  but alot of kids my age (millenial) say i work to live i dont live to work.  I know very few in my generation who fit the latter.  (living to work, much more common in older generations i think)

but anyways. people just dont think about it. 

simple reason breakdown.

1. Finances/stock market are a black box to most
2. Societal norms
3. never really thought of it
4. want to but dont know how
5. ignorant.
6. really like what they do and want to do it forever

Zikoris

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Re: Why Don't More People Seek Earlier Retirement?
« Reply #18 on: February 12, 2015, 11:37:41 AM »
Fear, of lots of things - fear of planning for the future because that means you have to confront the reality of getting old. Fear of losing all your money. Fear of being a bag lady.

I think a lot of Mustachians, myself included, forget how much of a role fear plays in most people's decision-making process. People point it out to me once in awhile - "You know, most people would be scared to do that because X might happen", when X is rather minor.

GuitarStv

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Re: Why Don't More People Seek Earlier Retirement?
« Reply #19 on: February 12, 2015, 11:41:56 AM »
Financial literacy is pretty low.  I know many folks who are terrified of investing in anything that's not guaranteed . . . which leads to very low returns on their money.  In this case they have a well founded fear of early retirement.  They are losing money to inflation every year.

Gone Fishing

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Re: Why Don't More People Seek Earlier Retirement?
« Reply #20 on: February 12, 2015, 11:47:44 AM »
Speaking of retiring at 58,

I work at a Fortune 500 company that still offers a pension (50% payout at 55), a 6% 401(k) match and has a TON of people making over $100k a year.  I do not know a single individual that has retired at 55 (which would also vest all options and grants) despite the fact that many could do so easily if they only wanted to.

I think they are holding out for SS and/or Medicare.  I think many don't know you can withdraw from retirement accounts prior to 59.5. I think they are "institutionalized" after 20+ years in the workplace.  I think permanent OMY syndrome affects many at this point. These are their "prime" earning years, they would be idiots to give them up.

Neither of my parents nor any of my grandparents worked all the way to 65.

Jags4186

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Re: Why Don't More People Seek Earlier Retirement?
« Reply #21 on: February 12, 2015, 11:56:09 AM »
Dave Ramsey.

Well not literally Dave Ramsey, but for all intents and purposes, Dave Ramsey and the industry surrounding him and people like him.

You cannot retire early if you save 15% of your income and invest with his ELPs.  15% savings rate and ELPs shilling loaded mutual funds with high expense ratios will not an early retirement make.

http://www.retireearlyhomepage.com/daveramsey.html



Retired To Win

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Re: Why Don't More People Seek Earlier Retirement?
« Reply #22 on: February 12, 2015, 12:23:37 PM »
There's also the most obvious reason:  The majority of people honestly believe that spending money results in greater happiness.  Having to live below your means registers as pain for most people, and is therefore avoided. 

YOLO, baby, time to blow some money.


And so... "having to live below your means" translates into "having to live on less than every single dollar you make"?  Or, in a slightly better scenario, "having to live on less than every single dollar remaining after you've contributed that measly matched 3% to your 401k"?

It's literally amazing to me how such people ignore or do not grasp the awesome power that living cost reduction has on how much one needs to save to retire.  :(

Copperwood

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Re: Why Don't More People Seek Earlier Retirement?
« Reply #23 on: February 12, 2015, 12:40:45 PM »
Starbucks

make sure you bring your receipt from this morning to come in this afternoon for $2 your next drink!

kaizen soze

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Re: Why Don't More People Seek Earlier Retirement?
« Reply #24 on: February 12, 2015, 12:44:02 PM »
Some people like their jobs.  I know a guy, he has a friend who wants to retire at 50 (he doesn't know about my own ER plans).  He's convinced that his friend will get bored within six months and be back to work.  He can't fathom not working.  He knows it's possible, it just doesn't make sense to him.  It also seems to offend his sense of morality.  People should work, or else they will become slovenly and soft watching daytime TV and eating potato chips in their pajamas.  He says he will work until he dies. 

Then there are those who think it's not possible, or who when it's explained to them think it's a life of deprivation.  I learned that a friend of mine was into this website, and wanted to retire early.  I was excited at first, but then she said something like "of course, I could never give up expensive purses."  Maybe it's just not for everyone.

Eric

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Re: Why Don't More People Seek Earlier Retirement?
« Reply #25 on: February 12, 2015, 01:00:00 PM »
Then there are those who think it's not possible, or who when it's explained to them think it's a life of deprivation.  I learned that a friend of mine was into this website, and wanted to retire early.  I was excited at first, but then she said something like "of course, I could never give up expensive purses."  Maybe it's just not for everyone.

Ha!  Yeah, where else is she going to carry her lack of money?

partgypsy

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Re: Why Don't More People Seek Earlier Retirement?
« Reply #26 on: February 12, 2015, 01:09:11 PM »
I think at least for me it was a combination of reasons. Most of my life I was pretty oblivious to money, I didn't care about it, it wasn't important to me. What was important was doing something interesting in life, or getting through graduate school, or raising my children. Also since I didn't go into a field that made a lot of money, I never even occured to me the possibility.
For a long time I didn't know anyone who retired, in my family it is more scenario of people working until they die basically, whether they need to or not (not working is seen as morally suspect?). And then when I did know people retiring early, more those cases of profiting off an invention, or selling a company or something that is akin to me winning the lottery (I knew wasn't ever going to apply to me). After getting more clued into finances, I save for retirement, so at least I can retire at some point even if not super early.

Actually now that I remember, my Dad did retire, in his 50's. But he got so antsy 6 months later he took all the money out and started investing in this venture, which he lost pretty much everything (the other investors ran off with money and declared bankruptcy). Besides being too trusting he didn't prepare himself for retirement and didn't know what to do with himself when retired. He's kind of like the guy who will die with his boots on. When he did finally "retire" (he still works part time) I remember helping him pick out some polo shirts and shorts, because basically he only had either his business clothes, or his pajamas to wear. 
« Last Edit: February 12, 2015, 01:15:28 PM by partgypsy »

Pooplips

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Re: Why Don't More People Seek Earlier Retirement?
« Reply #27 on: February 12, 2015, 01:11:10 PM »
Dave Ramsey.

Well not literally Dave Ramsey, but for all intents and purposes, Dave Ramsey and the industry surrounding him and people like him.

You cannot retire early if you save 15% of your income and invest with his ELPs.  15% savings rate and ELPs shilling loaded mutual funds with high expense ratios will not an early retirement make.

http://www.retireearlyhomepage.com/daveramsey.html

This. Dave Ramsey does some good things but 15% will not have you retired by 50. His advice is a steping stone for most ppl.

AllieVaulter

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Re: Why Don't More People Seek Earlier Retirement?
« Reply #28 on: February 12, 2015, 01:20:25 PM »
He says he will work until he dies. 

I work with someone like this.  He's in his 60's with no plans of retiring.  He works at least two jobs, sometimes 3 (teaching at a university, doing research at a well known university, and occasionally consulting - usually for the military/government).  He can't imagine wanting to retire.  Sometimes I'll wish him a good weekend on Fridays and he says something like "it's just two more days in the week, there's nothing special about them."  It's weird.  Working is important.  But, it seems so sad for your entire life to be defined by your work. 

I had heard stories of people retiring at 30, but always dismissed them as "hitting it rich" and I knew that I would never do that.  It wasn't until I read MMM that I even thought to do the math (and I LIKE math!).  I was just following the pattern that everyone does.  I've tried to talk to my parents about ER, but they are so busy coming up with excuses for why it won't work (what about health insurance?  You can't access your 401k until your 59!) that they can't listen to why it CAN work.  It's quite frustrating.  We talk about everything, but this is just so far outside the norm that they can't even listen to what I have to say. 

slugline

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Re: Why Don't More People Seek Earlier Retirement?
« Reply #29 on: February 12, 2015, 01:21:56 PM »
I believe the "delayed gratification" issue is the bulk of the answer. The ones who do not think about what/where they will be one year, two years, a decade or more from now do not save. In my 20s I had just enough financial enlightenment to save 10% in my 401(k) but even then, I didn't have as deep of an appreciation for what FI could mean as I do now in my 40s.

Interestingly enough, I've wondered if this is also the reason why young people are drawn into gang culture -- the wants of the "now, now, now" and the worst kinds of peer presssure overpowers the need to clearly think about future consequences.

jmusic

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Re: Why Don't More People Seek Earlier Retirement?
« Reply #30 on: February 12, 2015, 01:26:18 PM »
Most people just go with the conventional line of thinking. I remember hearing people bitch about never being able to retire when I started work. They would say things like "$1M, hell $2M, is just not enough to retire on these days."

Isn't it strange people complain about how they think they need soooooo much more than they actually do... then rather than working harder to hit a more hefty goal... they actually do even less to achieve it.

I can't save $2.5M, so I'll save... zero.  I thought of that too reading that GT's post. 

I'm in the military and it amazes me how many people plan to work past the 20ish years in service, either through continued military service or a second civilian career.  Even with zero savings, I'd make ~$3500/mo in pension assuming I can make the next rank and continue to 20.  If you can pay off your house while active, then it's a trivial matter to live on that...

deborah

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Re: Why Don't More People Seek Earlier Retirement?
« Reply #31 on: February 12, 2015, 01:26:46 PM »
There's more to it than has been said.

Firstly, retirement was something you did when you were too old and decrepit to work. You went out onto the garbage heap by retiring, and you died soon after. You didn't "do" anything - you were not a productive member of society - you were retired. And not very long ago this was absolutely correct. When I was in primary school we were told that the average lifespan was 68 years. Just think how much that has changed. Everyone who is in their 50's would have been told that when they were little. Their grandparents (if they were alive) were very old people, living hand to mouth, with multiple things wrong. So, our society knows what retired people look like, had it drummed into us when we were at the "age of impression" and it isn't what we want to be.

Secondly, we belong to societies with a strong moral approach to working. The "protestant work ethic" as it were. Not working is anti-capitalist.

Thirdly, with an "aging population" there is a very real fear within governments that their economies are going to collapse because there will be a lot fewer workers supplying taxes and available to run things. The world received a tremendous boom from the 1960's when the baby boomers started to work, as the percentage of the population engaged in working has been the largest EVER. Government and industry have had it good. There are more cashed up consumers as a percentage of society than there has ever been in the entire history of the world - especially in the industrialized world (fewer children being born means the percentage in the unproductive childhood years has gone down, women work more, and there haven't been many retirees). That is now about to change because the baby boomers are retiring, so the percentage of people who are in the workforce is about to decline for the first time since the second world war. So governments and industry is very much into people working longer - and definitely not retiring early.

Fourthly, the people who want instant gratification are spendthrift have too little to retire has been covered, but what of the opposite? The people who are frugal delay gratification, and are so used to delayed gratification that they need something explosive to happen to realise that they "have enough" and can retire early. And then they need to start not delaying gratification - enjoying retirement. These are the people who go back to work after they have retired because they can't think of anything to do - they have delayed gratification for so long that they have forgotten what you may want out of life that doesn't involve work!

Ah well, eight replies have come in while I have been typing - I think they address my fourth point, but don't address anything else.

Iron Mike Sharpe

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Re: Why Don't More People Seek Earlier Retirement?
« Reply #32 on: February 12, 2015, 01:39:23 PM »
I think it's a combination of two things:

1)  Defined Contribution Plans have only been around for a relatively short time.  The idea that you can decrease your time to retirement by increasing your contribution rate is a foreign idea to many. It doesn't get stressed enough by people.  And few people do it, so there are less examples for people to follow.  Before, with Defined Benefit Plans, your retirement was heavily tied to dates of when you were allowed to retire.

2)  Madison Avenue over the last 30+ years has just become so sophisticated at marketing a lifestyle to people.  People actually believe they have to lead this lifestyle.  I can't remember which thread this was in, but this chart of consumption rates in America is astounding:

http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/A794RX0Q048SBEA

I'd really like to see a content analysis of advertising over these same years.  While certain things have become more expensive over the the years (adjusted for inflation), a lot of what we actually need to live is cheaper now than then.

Retire-Canada

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Re: Why Don't More People Seek Earlier Retirement?
« Reply #33 on: February 12, 2015, 01:51:40 PM »
If someone had laid out the ERE plan to me when I was 17 I've been retired at 30.

I'm smart and I'm motivated.

I got programmed with the usual BS by my parents and society.

I've broken free of that programming in about 3 separate steps. The last of which was reading MMM.

Sadly I'm 45 so I can't retire early like someone who is 20, but I am going to accelerate my retirement from 67 to 50 and start working less every year from 45 - 49.

I'm stoked!

-- Vik

arebelspy

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Re: Why Don't More People Seek Earlier Retirement?
« Reply #34 on: February 12, 2015, 01:55:47 PM »
Holy shit, you can retire early?

I'm not sure that's allowed.
I am a former teacher who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, spent some time traveling the world full time and am now settled with three kids.
If you want to know more about me, this Business Insider profile tells the story pretty well.
I (rarely) blog at AdventuringAlong.com. Check out the Now page to see what I'm up to currently.

Retired To Win

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Re: Why Don't More People Seek Earlier Retirement?
« Reply #35 on: February 12, 2015, 02:14:24 PM »

...I work with someone like this:  He's in his 60's with no plans of retiring.  He works at least two jobs, sometimes 3 (teaching at a university, doing research at a well known university, and occasionally consulting - usually for the military/government).  He can't imagine wanting to retire...


That's all just fine -- really -- if the guy's reason for working is that he loves/enjoys what he does at work more than he would enjoy doing other things.  But still, even then, having one's expenses and savings balanced so that one is financially independent is absolutely key.  Because that's what will give you the freedom to love your work but be able to tell the office dictator/politicians to go stick it.  (And, no, you won't give up attending your daughter's recital just so that goddamn report can be done one day sooner!)

AJ

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Re: Why Don't More People Seek Earlier Retirement?
« Reply #36 on: February 12, 2015, 02:30:31 PM »
Dave Ramsey.

Well not literally Dave Ramsey, but for all intents and purposes, Dave Ramsey and the industry surrounding him and people like him.

You cannot retire early if you save 15% of your income and invest with his ELPs.  15% savings rate and ELPs shilling loaded mutual funds with high expense ratios will not an early retirement make.

http://www.retireearlyhomepage.com/daveramsey.html

This. Dave Ramsey does some good things but 15% will not have you retired by 50. His advice is a steping stone for most ppl.

I don't think this is an accurate assessment. DR advocates 15% while someone is *aggressively* paying down their mortgage (which would effectively increase their savings rate). After paying off the house, he advocates using additional funds for investing in mutual funds and real estate.

I think the biggest reason more people don't is that they just don't know/realize it's an option. Retirement seems so far off, people just prefer not to think about it and focus on daily concerns instead.

lexie2000

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Re: Why Don't More People Seek Earlier Retirement?
« Reply #37 on: February 12, 2015, 02:38:51 PM »
If someone had laid out the ERE plan to me when I was 17 I've been retired at 30.

I'm smart and I'm motivated.

I got programmed with the usual BS by my parents and society.

I've broken free of that programming in about 3 separate steps. The last of which was reading MMM.

Sadly I'm 45 so I can't retire early like someone who is 20, but I am going to accelerate my retirement from 67 to 50 and start working less every year from 45 - 49.

I'm stoked!

-- Vik

We were programmed to think that the earliest that DH could retire would be age 55 (the earliest that his company offered pension and retiree medical) so that was our goal.

The reasons that DH was able to do it:

1. Pension:   He was a "lifer" and survived downsizing, layoffs, RIFs, etc. over the 33 years of his career.

Many of his co-workers were not as "lucky".  Baby boomers entered the workforce at a time when being a lifer was still a possibility.  Within the first decade of his career, downsizing and layoffs were not uncommon.

He does get a pension, but over the years the pension formula was adjusted several times offering less and less of a benefit. 

2.  Retiree Medical:  He retired with over 30 years of service so he receives the maximum retiree medical subsidy.  In spite of that our premiums are over $700/mo. for an HMO plan.  When we started out, retiree medical was paid for 100% by the company.  10-15 years ago, it was heavily subsidized and retirees paid only a fraction of what employees paid.  Today retirees pay more than employees and the benefit can be dropped by the company at any time. 

3.  Profit Sharing / 401k:  We began contributing as early as was allowed by the company, not because we thought we'd need the money for retirement, but because we saw it as a good investment.  Within 2 or 3 years, the profit sharing program (after tax contributions) became a 401k (tax deferred).  We didn't like the fact that we would not be able to access the funds until our late 50s (because at the time we believed his pension would cover our retirement income needs); but we liked the match and needed the tax break, so we continued to max out our contributions.

4.  Lack of Consumerism:  We were always low on the consumerism scale and high on the saving scale.

So as you can see, some of our success was DFL (dumb f.... luck).  We were lucky that DH did not get laid off along the way.  We were smart to invest in the profit sharing program/401k and based our spending on our net income (after contributions) and never looked back; but we also were lucky because as it turns out, we need that "investment" for our retirement due to the decrease in pension benefits/increase in the cost of retiree medical over the years.


Guesl982374

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Re: Why Don't More People Seek Earlier Retirement?
« Reply #38 on: February 12, 2015, 02:48:01 PM »
Advertising & Ignorance.

Advertising for goods and services that claim to provide more happiness (regardless if they do)
Advertising that you are only suppose to save 5-15% for retirement
Advertising via wanting to be "normal" and "fit in" with others around you

Ignorance for not knowing that there are more options and freedoms in life
Ignorance for not knowing how money works
Ignorance that people can't take control of their own life

Secretly Saving

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Re: Why Don't More People Seek Earlier Retirement?
« Reply #39 on: February 12, 2015, 03:15:53 PM »
My goal is age 50 or 2 million which ever comes first.  There is a certain lifestyle I want to maintain that I can't get on 500k or 750k.  If you can that's wonderful. I hope to enjoy 20 years of healthy vibrant retirement from 50 to 70 years old. Sailing, hiking and traveling the world.  After 70 you decline.  I've watched people I've known my whole life and 70 is a major switch.  I hope to be in a full time RV status at 70 till I can't do it anymore.


^^^ I could not agree with this more.   I feel EXACTLY the same way.  I want to make sure that we have 20 years of enjoyment.  Unfortunately, I know too many people who didn't even make it to 60. 

arebelspy

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Re: Why Don't More People Seek Earlier Retirement?
« Reply #40 on: February 12, 2015, 03:27:18 PM »
My goal is age 50 or 2 million which ever comes first.  There is a certain lifestyle I want to maintain that I can't get on 500k or 750k.  If you can that's wonderful. I hope to enjoy 20 years of healthy vibrant retirement from 50 to 70 years old. Sailing, hiking and traveling the world.  After 70 you decline.  I've watched people I've known my whole life and 70 is a major switch.  I hope to be in a full time RV status at 70 till I can't do it anymore.


^^^ I could not agree with this more.   I feel EXACTLY the same way.  I want to make sure that we have 20 years of enjoyment.  Unfortunately, I know too many people who didn't even make it to 60.

I think that basically the same lifestyle can be acquired at 750k portfolio as a 2MM portfolio.

That being said, everyone needs to find their own comfort level, and work to that amount.  I personally had certain cash flow goals before being ready to FIRE.

In any case, figure out those goals, set them, then relentlessly pursue them while enjoying life now.  No need to wait for a certain "age" if you hit those financial goals. 
I am a former teacher who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, spent some time traveling the world full time and am now settled with three kids.
If you want to know more about me, this Business Insider profile tells the story pretty well.
I (rarely) blog at AdventuringAlong.com. Check out the Now page to see what I'm up to currently.

geekette

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Re: Why Don't More People Seek Earlier Retirement?
« Reply #41 on: February 12, 2015, 03:30:46 PM »
Insurance availability.

Thanks, Obama!

arebelspy

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Re: Why Don't More People Seek Earlier Retirement?
« Reply #42 on: February 12, 2015, 03:32:57 PM »
Insurance availability.

Thanks, Obama!

True, the ACA is making it much harder for me to FIRE.  Oh well, it does help others, so I guess it's worth it.
I am a former teacher who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, spent some time traveling the world full time and am now settled with three kids.
If you want to know more about me, this Business Insider profile tells the story pretty well.
I (rarely) blog at AdventuringAlong.com. Check out the Now page to see what I'm up to currently.

Beric01

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Re: Why Don't More People Seek Earlier Retirement?
« Reply #43 on: February 12, 2015, 03:39:15 PM »
Insurance availability.

Thanks, Obama!

True, the ACA is making it much harder for me to FIRE.  Oh well, it does help others, so I guess it's worth it.

Easiest way to get around that is just not retire in the US. Then the ACA doesn't apply, and you can take advantage of the far cheaper medical care elsewhere.

Chuck

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Re: Why Don't More People Seek Earlier Retirement?
« Reply #44 on: February 12, 2015, 03:40:48 PM »
I'm in the "most people haven't thought of that" camp.

Or they are passively introduced to the concept after they've inflated their spending and they aren't willing to make the sacrifice.

Mostly that no one has told them that living off of a moderately sized equity portfolio is possible, and that amassing said portfolio is easy with discipline.

Metta

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Re: Why Don't More People Seek Earlier Retirement?
« Reply #45 on: February 12, 2015, 03:45:35 PM »
People at my office know that I plan to retire in less than two years and a surprising number of people have asked me, "But aren't you afraid that you'll die? I've heard that it is very common for people to die shortly after they retire."

I've had to explain that correlation is not causation and that the reason that many people die shortly after retiring is because they wait to retire until they are very sick and do not have much time left.

2527

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Re: Why Don't More People Seek Earlier Retirement?
« Reply #46 on: February 12, 2015, 03:58:23 PM »
I'm not dissatisfied with my job. 

Patrick A

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Re: Why Don't More People Seek Earlier Retirement?
« Reply #47 on: February 12, 2015, 03:59:27 PM »
Starbucks

Hah!  Great one word answer.

Jags4186

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Re: Why Don't More People Seek Earlier Retirement?
« Reply #48 on: February 12, 2015, 04:02:36 PM »
Dave Ramsey.

Well not literally Dave Ramsey, but for all intents and purposes, Dave Ramsey and the industry surrounding him and people like him.

You cannot retire early if you save 15% of your income and invest with his ELPs.  15% savings rate and ELPs shilling loaded mutual funds with high expense ratios will not an early retirement make.

http://www.retireearlyhomepage.com/daveramsey.html

This. Dave Ramsey does some good things but 15% will not have you retired by 50. His advice is a steping stone for most ppl.

I don't think this is an accurate assessment. DR advocates 15% while someone is *aggressively* paying down their mortgage (which would effectively increase their savings rate). After paying off the house, he advocates using additional funds for investing in mutual funds and real estate.

I think the biggest reason more people don't is that they just don't know/realize it's an option. Retirement seems so far off, people just prefer not to think about it and focus on daily concerns instead.

As the link shows, if you follow D.R.s advice, advice he gives out dozens of times a day on his own radio show, you would be incredibly far behind compared to your peers over at bogleheads. "invest in mutual funds with your local ELP.  they're required to take the little guys and have the heart of a teacher".  If you have the heart of a teacher you'd be telling someone to run away from loaded high expense funds, etc.

So if you are seeking to get out of debt, DR is a super great motivator and I think has a great method.  If you are looking to FIRE find yourself a different guru.

geekette

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Re: Why Don't More People Seek Earlier Retirement?
« Reply #49 on: February 12, 2015, 04:13:21 PM »
Insurance availability.

Thanks, Obama!

True, the ACA is making it much harder for me to FIRE.  Oh well, it does help others, so I guess it's worth it.
Curious as to why it makes it harder for you. 

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!