Author Topic: Who is here because they just don't like working?  (Read 6538 times)

tooqk4u22

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Re: Who is here because they just don't like working?
« Reply #50 on: January 13, 2021, 06:14:19 AM »
Didn't hate work per se, but hate all the things that others have mentioned - time commitment, bs politics, arbitrary rules, work to work, facetime, etc.   

When I FIREd they asked me what they could do to get me to stay.   I said give me half my pay for half time hours requirement and ability to come and go as I please (WFH, Office) but with same incentive goals and payouts, figured it would cost them less to get same results and I could stay doing the aspects of the job I like while still making good coin even if not needed.

Answer, we checked with HR and we are a big company, there is no precedent, may not send the right message to others and blah blah blah blah.   Response from me - thank you for confirming the lack flexibility and creative thinking that is lacking in "big company" and is one of the reasons why am leaving.


goat_music_generator

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Re: Who is here because they just don't like working?
« Reply #51 on: January 13, 2021, 07:32:09 AM »
Just spent 2.5 work days dealing with faulty software license issues just to get an ancillary program to translate a file from a different unsupported buggy layout tool into a crappy thermal simulation tool.

I am deeply tired of this sort of life killing hoop jumping just to get to my actual job.  If I actually got to spend a decent chunk of my day on items in my job description I would not he looking so hard for a way out.

Seems like practically everybody I know in software feels this way. Writing code is fun, all the other crap, not so much.

I'm excited for when I can quit my software job so I can spend *more* of my time actually writing code :-)

dignam

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Re: Who is here because they just don't like working?
« Reply #52 on: January 13, 2021, 08:16:03 AM »
I generally like my job, but as others have said I'd rather do something else.  My bosses and co workers are all great. 

The things that get me are being hamstrung by corporate and basically always being on call (but that goes with my job).  I'm a database administrator and every. single. year. we run into space issues on our database servers.  The systems guys are in total agreement with me, but the higher ups keep telling us "we're moving to a cloud solution this year so space won't be an issue then." OK, that would be fantastic, let's do it!  But I've heard that for three years straight now.  I mean come on!  HD space is probably the cheapest thing for up keeping a physical server.  So we're forced to put bandaids on the servers until corporate can pull the trigger on letting us migrate.

So yes, glad I can see the light at the end of the tunnel, maybe 10 or so years out.  I'm only 34 so I count myself lucky.

ontheheel

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Re: Who is here because they just don't like working?
« Reply #53 on: January 13, 2021, 09:50:37 AM »
I love my job, and while I've been seriously burned out at times, better times eventually came back around. I'm now in a position where I'm about halfway to a pension (ten more years), and think I'll stay until then. I'll be 48 at that point, and still have two kids at home.

In the meantime, I'm trying to save and invest a lot and still have a backup plan if things take a turn for the worse. I'm also trying to steer my career into paths that interest me, and taking assignments based upon what is best for my family, and things that can involve some adventure.

One advantage of the military is that even if you get stuck with a terrible boss, either you or they will be gone fairly quickly. With officers moving every 2-3 years, and everyone's tours offset by some amount, you've typically only got 18 months max with any particular boss. Combined with the fact that we get all the federal holidays off and 30 days of leave every year, it's not that difficult to wait out a bad boss.

Porkins

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Re: Who is here because they just don't like working?
« Reply #54 on: January 13, 2021, 12:35:35 PM »
Didn't hate work per se, but hate all the things that others have mentioned - time commitment, bs politics, arbitrary rules, work to work, facetime, etc.   

When I FIREd they asked me what they could do to get me to stay.   I said give me half my pay for half time hours requirement and ability to come and go as I please (WFH, Office) but with same incentive goals and payouts, figured it would cost them less to get same results and I could stay doing the aspects of the job I like while still making good coin even if not needed.

Answer, we checked with HR and we are a big company, there is no precedent, may not send the right message to others and blah blah blah blah.   Response from me - thank you for confirming the lack flexibility and creative thinking that is lacking in "big company" and is one of the reasons why am leaving.
Yep Yep and Yep.

I'm not FIRE'd, but empathize wholly with this. My job promotions over the years have steadily increased my supervisory and administrative responsibilities (ie, deal more with office politics and less with what I was originally hired to do and actually enjoy). I find I don't particularly care for people and their needy-ness and that's a bad mental place to be for someone that's supposed to be delivering good customer service.  I'm thinking of the future date when I go to HR to propose exactly what you did: half pay for half-time and WFH/Office flexibility, but with same benefits package. I'm also thinking my HR department will have a similar response as yours.

Cheers.

FarFetchd

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Re: Who is here because they just don't like working?
« Reply #55 on: January 13, 2021, 01:23:34 PM »
Just spent 2.5 work days dealing with faulty software license issues just to get an ancillary program to translate a file from a different unsupported buggy layout tool into a crappy thermal simulation tool.

I am deeply tired of this sort of life killing hoop jumping just to get to my actual job.  If I actually got to spend a decent chunk of my day on items in my job description I would not he looking so hard for a way out.

Seems like practically everybody I know in software feels this way. Writing code is fun, all the other crap, not so much.

I'm excited for when I can quit my software job so I can spend *more* of my time actually writing code :-)

That's exactly me. In fact, even now while still employed, I've gotten significantly more coding done in my free time than in my SWE job over the past several months. It's crazy; I have a run of near zero productivity at work, get all down on myself, then find myself coming out of a coding trance at the end of a day off amazed at how much I was able to get done. Not that it's a fair comparison - although my side projects are reasonably serious, they are not the sort of unknowable-by-any-individual behemoth I have wound up on in my professional life. Unsurprisingly, the one stretch of time when I absolutely loved my job was when the project was only a few times more complex than what would be possible in a personal project, rather than 1000x.

And of course, we should be honest about how code written at work differs from personal projects. I think the two biggies are exhaustive unit testing, and the process of getting your mind hooked into code written by other people. Unfortunately, you just can't get to a really big, impressive, and production-ready thing without those two. Boring megacorp jobs, while personally unsatisfying, are what it takes to get to the awe-inspiring things that run modern life.

Anyways, apologies for the brief derailment to everyone who also does not like working, but does not care about coding. Strictly on the main topic, I will say: yes, I have found that under almost all circumstances I just do not like working for an employer.

goat_music_generator

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Re: Who is here because they just don't like working?
« Reply #56 on: January 13, 2021, 03:18:18 PM »

That's exactly me. In fact, even now while still employed, I've gotten significantly more coding done in my free time than in my SWE job over the past several months. It's crazy; I have a run of near zero productivity at work, get all down on myself, then find myself coming out of a coding trance at the end of a day off amazed at how much I was able to get done. Not that it's a fair comparison - although my side projects are reasonably serious, they are not the sort of unknowable-by-any-individual behemoth I have wound up on in my professional life.

"unknowable-by-any-individual behemoth" -- that's exactly it! That's exactly what sucks about it!

Unsurprisingly, the one stretch of time when I absolutely loved my job was when the project was only a few times more complex than what would be possible in a personal project, rather than 1000x.

And of course, we should be honest about how code written at work differs from personal projects. I think the two biggies are exhaustive unit testing, and the process of getting your mind hooked into code written by other people. Unfortunately, you just can't get to a really big, impressive, and production-ready thing without those two.

True... I'm actually weird and kind of enjoy writing unit tests for my own code. Getting my mind hooked into code written by other people, though -- annoying. Having MEETINGS about other people's code and how to modify the code -- OOF.

(Continued this derail a bit. @ everyone else, please feel free to change subject back XD)

Rubic

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Re: Who is here because they just don't like working?
« Reply #57 on: January 13, 2021, 03:33:17 PM »
Just spent 2.5 work days dealing with faulty software license issues just to get an ancillary program to translate a file from a different unsupported buggy layout tool into a crappy thermal simulation tool.

I am deeply tired of this sort of life killing hoop jumping just to get to my actual job.  If I actually got to spend a decent chunk of my day on items in my job description I would not he looking so hard for a way out.

This is why we have our entire code stack built with open source software.  Licensing
issues are such a pain in the ass.  All of our staff use either chromebooks or computers
running Linux.  A couple of the Linux machines have Windows running in a VM because
of some silly compatibility requirements, but all of the code I touch is open source.

New users are initially nonplussed with a Linux laptop, but they quickly get used to
the environment and are impressed with how fast it runs on older equipment.  A number
of our users (the non-gamers) have switched to Linux on their older laptops at home.

LennStar

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Re: Who is here because they just don't like working?
« Reply #58 on: January 14, 2021, 03:59:53 AM »

I know that feel moof. I'm a test engineer. I spend way more of my time fighting with test agent problems, Selenium drivers not working the same between different browser types, and an abandoned wrapper for Selenium that is supposed to make working with Selenium easier. The wrapper is mostly broken and just makes it harder to track down bugs. I would rewrite the test application to not use the wrapper and just use the Selenium API directly, but I'm not sure I can convince my manager to let me do that.
Haha. We are using Selenium too for SAP UI5. Every time they make an update to their UI something is broken in the old tests and needs to be rewritten. Means about once per quarter.
They also change the link to their help constantly, so even if you bookmarked something, half a year later it's 50/50 if you can find it.

If you want to work half-time and have a flexible company, try for 4 days (6 hours) with free Wednesday. I read about several people that are amazed how good that feels. And I can imagine why. 2 days are always manageable, right?

mies

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Re: Who is here because they just don't like working?
« Reply #59 on: January 14, 2021, 05:11:43 AM »

I know that feel moof. I'm a test engineer. I spend way more of my time fighting with test agent problems, Selenium drivers not working the same between different browser types, and an abandoned wrapper for Selenium that is supposed to make working with Selenium easier. The wrapper is mostly broken and just makes it harder to track down bugs. I would rewrite the test application to not use the wrapper and just use the Selenium API directly, but I'm not sure I can convince my manager to let me do that.
Haha. We are using Selenium too for SAP UI5. Every time they make an update to their UI something is broken in the old tests and needs to be rewritten. Means about once per quarter.
They also change the link to their help constantly, so even if you bookmarked something, half a year later it's 50/50 if you can find it.

If you want to work half-time and have a flexible company, try for 4 days (6 hours) with free Wednesday. I read about several people that are amazed how good that feels. And I can imagine why. 2 days are always manageable, right?

Fortunately, the software I write UI tests against has remained pretty stable over the last couple of years. It's the new browser versions and selenium drivers that go with them that usually break our stuff. Chrome is fine. Firefox and Legacy Edge are going to kill me.

Less time would definitely be more manageable, but it would also come with a big pay cut. I'm too far away from my number to take a pay cut. If I were 80% to my goal, I would consider going part time, but that is still 6-7 years in the future. Even then, I think I would just continue to work full time. I'd rather feel the pain now rather than drag it out for an extra 3 years.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2021, 05:13:29 AM by mies »

Arbitrage

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Re: Who is here because they just don't like working?
« Reply #60 on: January 14, 2021, 03:44:38 PM »
I don't hate working (ok, sometimes I do), but there are definitely things about it that I dislike.  There are times where I get involved in an interesting project and feel a sense of pride and accomplishment.  My main problem is that I really like doing other things more. 

One thing I definitely disdain is full-time work.  Spending the majority of my waking hours working (or on work-related tasks like commuting, getting ready, being stuck at work for an unpaid but mandatory lunch hour, etc.) for 5 days per week feels like way too much, and always has. 

Linea_Norway

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Re: Who is here because they just don't like working?
« Reply #61 on: January 15, 2021, 01:31:31 AM »
Just spent 2.5 work days dealing with faulty software license issues just to get an ancillary program to translate a file from a different unsupported buggy layout tool into a crappy thermal simulation tool.

I am deeply tired of this sort of life killing hoop jumping just to get to my actual job.  If I actually got to spend a decent chunk of my day on items in my job description I would not he looking so hard for a way out.

I know that feel moof. I'm a test engineer. I spend way more of my time fighting with test agent problems, Selenium drivers not working the same between different browser types, and an abandoned wrapper for Selenium that is supposed to make working with Selenium easier. The wrapper is mostly broken and just makes it harder to track down bugs. I would rewrite the test application to not use the wrapper and just use the Selenium API directly, but I'm not sure I can convince my manager to let me do that.

I like playing with computers and coding, but I hate doing it for other people for pay. I look forward to the day I can step away from paid work. At this point, I'd rather spend my days walking around picking up litter than hunched over a computer trying to figure out how I'm going to un-fuck some broken system.

I get this totally. Large part of my job is trying to make excuses for software that has known faults and crashes all the time and has been like it for the last 10 years yet management will not put in the resources required to correct it. Whenever it goes down clients complain and then we have to make up some BS excuse why it happened when everyone really knows that the reason it persists is because management don't care enough to put in the required resources to properly fix it.

I also used to work in that industry, first as a programmer, later as a test manager. In software, you are always working for totally unrealistic release dates. And often with way too little design documentation and often testing involved too late. And what about technical issues with test labs, a constant trouble. I have worked in companies where some of these things have been better, although always those due dates. Unrealistic dates often mean you can't do your work as well as you want to. Or the product is realeased full of known errors. During the last years, I have also needed to work in noisy office landscapes, which means I can't concentrate at all.

I have switched jobs, but the grass is really not always greener on the other side. A new job may not always be what you expect from it. The other thing is that managers usually steer which project you are working on, which may not at all be aligned with your own wishes. And these decisions are made behind closed doors, instead of me involved, at least in my last job.

No, I don't mind working on something, but I would like to decide on what and at the speed. I also want to be able to go outside in nice weather and not sitting in an office, longingly looking out of the window. If you have windows at all that is. In my last job, I often worked in a test lab inside a mountain. Sometimes for long days and weeks at the time.

Last year, I didn't work at all and so far I love it. My mornings are my own. I can do whatever the f. I want.




damnedbee

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Re: Who is here because they just don't like working?
« Reply #62 on: January 16, 2021, 07:18:45 AM »
I don't mind actual work -- using my brain to solve problems, write, or create something. I do hate all the BS that comes with a 9-5 job, regardless of how good the company, mission, boss, or colleagues are.

I hate strategic planning, SMART goals, budgeting, meetings, conference calls, performance appraisals, reminding people of deadlines, feigning patience with idiots who didn't read the effing email, submitting timecards, filling out HR forms, commuting, office birthday parties, chipping in for baby shower gifts, wearing uncomfortable clothes, stressing at night, having other people control my time...

I'd love to know who these mythical unicorns are who "love their job." How can you love your job when it inevitably comes with all that BS?

mozar

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Re: Who is here because they just don't like working?
« Reply #63 on: January 16, 2021, 09:27:27 AM »
Quote
I hate strategic planning, SMART goals, budgeting, meetings, conference calls, performance appraisals, reminding people of deadlines, feigning patience with idiots who didn't read the effing email, submitting timecards, filling out HR forms, commuting, office birthday parties, chipping in for baby shower gifts, wearing uncomfortable clothes, stressing at night, having other people control my time...

And most of this stuff isn't even necessary. It's bureaucracy for the sake of bureaucracy.

John Galt incarnate!

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Re: Who is here because they just don't like working?
« Reply #64 on: January 16, 2021, 09:46:33 AM »
Quote
I hate strategic planning, SMART goals, budgeting, meetings, conference calls, performance appraisals, reminding people of deadlines, feigning patience with idiots who didn't read the effing email, submitting timecards, filling out HR forms, commuting, office birthday parties, chipping in for baby shower gifts, wearing uncomfortable clothes, stressing at night, having other people control my time...

And most of this stuff isn't even necessary. It's bureaucracy for the sake of bureaucracy.

The #1 reason my sister refused a HUGE promotion was that  her new position would require  her to do  more bureaucratic work that as a highly experienced executive she knew  wasn't necessary.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2021, 09:54:21 AM by John Galt incarnate! »

srrb

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Re: Who is here because they just don't like working?
« Reply #65 on: January 16, 2021, 03:41:45 PM »
Quote
I hate strategic planning, SMART goals, budgeting, meetings, conference calls, performance appraisals, reminding people of deadlines, feigning patience with idiots who didn't read the effing email, submitting timecards, filling out HR forms, commuting, office birthday parties, chipping in for baby shower gifts, wearing uncomfortable clothes, stressing at night, having other people control my time...

And most of this stuff isn't even necessary. It's bureaucracy for the sake of bureaucracy.

So this!! I don't have anything to add, but wanted to call it out. The real work is fine, but the bullsh$t tasks and groundhog-day of it all is the problem.

sui generis

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Re: Who is here because they just don't like working?
« Reply #66 on: January 18, 2021, 03:57:51 PM »
I don't mind actual work -- using my brain to solve problems, write, or create something. I do hate all the BS that comes with a 9-5 job, regardless of how good the company, mission, boss, or colleagues are.

I hate strategic planning, SMART goals, budgeting, meetings, conference calls, performance appraisals, reminding people of deadlines, feigning patience with idiots who didn't read the effing email, submitting timecards, filling out HR forms, commuting, office birthday parties, chipping in for baby shower gifts, wearing uncomfortable clothes, stressing at night, having other people control my time...

I'd love to know who these mythical unicorns are who "love their job." How can you love your job when it inevitably comes with all that BS?

My husband loves his job, but also managed to get out of a lot of the BS.  He was a tenure-track professor at Harvard and left to take a half-time adjunct position, with his other half-time just being a research appointment so he literally gets to just do research, which he likes, and has many fewer committee and admin duties than he would as a tenured professor.  He loves it, even though it's obviously less presitigious and he gets paid less.  But he still gets paid enough to give over 50% of his income to charity (last year) and prestige is pretty unimportant to him.  So I think I'm going to be FIREd on my own for quite some time.  I'm actually really jealous.  I wish I had ever found something that resonated for me like this has for him.

Warlord1986

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Re: Who is here because they just don't like working?
« Reply #67 on: January 18, 2021, 04:34:57 PM »
I love work. I love researching topics, I love coordinating with different people to get stuff done. I love learning new things. I love managing projects with lots of different moving parts.

I hate having a job. I hate dealing with petty people. I hate bullshit bureaucracy. I hate being expected to sit in an office for eight hours when the actual work takes three or four. I hate hearing two bosses in a row complain about how little they were paid (one gets $80,000+ in a laughably low cost of living area, the other gets $90,000 in a regular low cost of living area. The first dude probably has a household income over over $100,000, and the second lady definitely has a household income of over $200,000).

My current job is pretty awesome, although it's not the highest paying. My organization is run by people who are genuinely kind. I enjoy most of my work, and having a smaller paycheck motivated me to start my own editing business. I LOVE that. I can keep my skills fresh in case I ever change jobs, and if I retire then I've got another source of income for traveling/fun stuff. I have the best of both worlds now, and it's given me a lot of freedom.

StarBright

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Re: Who is here because they just don't like working?
« Reply #68 on: January 19, 2021, 08:12:57 AM »
I don't mind actual work -- using my brain to solve problems, write, or create something. I do hate all the BS that comes with a 9-5 job, regardless of how good the company, mission, boss, or colleagues are.

I hate strategic planning, SMART goals, budgeting, meetings, conference calls, performance appraisals, reminding people of deadlines, feigning patience with idiots who didn't read the effing email, submitting timecards, filling out HR forms, commuting, office birthday parties, chipping in for baby shower gifts, wearing uncomfortable clothes, stressing at night, having other people control my time...

I'd love to know who these mythical unicorns are who "love their job." How can you love your job when it inevitably comes with all that BS?

My husband loves his job, but also managed to get out of a lot of the BS.  He was a tenure-track professor at Harvard and left to take a half-time adjunct position, with his other half-time just being a research appointment so he literally gets to just do research, which he likes, and has many fewer committee and admin duties than he would as a tenured professor.  He loves it, even though it's obviously less presitigious and he gets paid less.  But he still gets paid enough to give over 50% of his income to charity (last year) and prestige is pretty unimportant to him.  So I think I'm going to be FIREd on my own for quite some time.  I'm actually really jealous.  I wish I had ever found something that resonated for me like this has for him.

My husband is also an academic, so while I totally understand your post, it also made my mind explode! I cannot fathom walking away from a TT spot, especially at an ivy. But that is wonderful that your husband is so much happier now!

HawkeyeNFO

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Re: Who is here because they just don't like working?
« Reply #69 on: January 19, 2021, 02:35:12 PM »
Would you do your job if you weren't paid?  If yes, then you love your job. 

Malcat

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Re: Who is here because they just don't like working?
« Reply #70 on: January 19, 2021, 02:45:50 PM »
Would you do your job if you weren't paid?  If yes, then you love your job.

Sort of...it's a little more nuanced than that though, depending on what your options are.

I love my work, but I have so many ways to pivot that if one stops paying, I can focus my energies in another direction. That said, I've always done a ton of unpaid work, so there is that.

Plina

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Re: Who is here because they just don't like working?
« Reply #71 on: January 19, 2021, 02:47:19 PM »
I have spent quite some time during these last years thinking about what kind of work I want to do. I guess the answer is what pleases me. I work as a lawyer and have a lot of flexibility. I can work from home most of the week if I want and I have a boss I like. But I am still working for someone else. Some projects get delayed due to client wishes, which can seriously screw up all my planning. I have had a couple such projects that have forced me to work longer days then I wish and on sundays these past weeks. My coworker also have resigned, which means that we will soon be short of people.

I have thought about changing to some other profession but I would need to get back to school so I decided to go for fire instead. I like my field but I would probably play a different game IF I didn’t need to earn money to pay my bills. Based on my previous calculations I have about ten years left but quarantine have really boosted my savings rate so it might go faster. A move to a smaller city might also boost it all.

Just Joe

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Re: Who is here because they just don't like working?
« Reply #72 on: January 19, 2021, 02:55:58 PM »
I've got a ways to go.

Typical day today.

One coworker asks me to be part of a research project involving lasers. Oooh! Interesting.

Meanwhile my new supervisor who doesn't know the ropes and wants me to take lead on reorganizing another lab b/c they aren't replacing the last guy who left who used to have "ownership" over that space - cleaning, updating safety documentation, signage, etc.

What can I do but both? Generally speaking I like the place. I don't like the dinky tasks. Guess I'll bring my headphones and listen to podcasts while I clean.

2sk22

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Re: Who is here because they just don't like working?
« Reply #73 on: January 19, 2021, 03:40:44 PM »
I don't mind actual work -- using my brain to solve problems, write, or create something. I do hate all the BS that comes with a 9-5 job, regardless of how good the company, mission, boss, or colleagues are.

I hate strategic planning, SMART goals, budgeting, meetings, conference calls, performance appraisals, reminding people of deadlines, feigning patience with idiots who didn't read the effing email, submitting timecards, filling out HR forms, commuting, office birthday parties, chipping in for baby shower gifts, wearing uncomfortable clothes, stressing at night, having other people control my time...

I'd love to know who these mythical unicorns are who "love their job." How can you love your job when it inevitably comes with all that BS?

What I hated most about work was performance appraisals! I would have to spend hours each December going through my diary to pick out "achievements". It was especially bad when I worked for a megacorp - the annual appraisal process was often very political. Rewards were completely uncorrelated with actual achievements.

« Last Edit: January 19, 2021, 03:51:10 PM by 2sk22 »

MudPuppy

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Re: Who is here because they just don't like working?
« Reply #74 on: January 19, 2021, 05:31:50 PM »
I don't mind actual work -- using my brain to solve problems, write, or create something. I do hate all the BS that comes with a 9-5 job, regardless of how good the company, mission, boss, or colleagues are.

I hate strategic planning, SMART goals, budgeting, meetings, conference calls, performance appraisals, reminding people of deadlines, feigning patience with idiots who didn't read the effing email, submitting timecards, filling out HR forms, commuting, office birthday parties, chipping in for baby shower gifts, wearing uncomfortable clothes, stressing at night, having other people control my time...

I'd love to know who these mythical unicorns are who "love their job." How can you love your job when it inevitably comes with all that BS?

It’s work worth doing. I love my peers. I love my direct reports. I love my regular clients. I love the diverse roles and associated tasks I can assume on any given day. I love what I do so much that I have my full time role at one place AND part time work at another place.

lazycow

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Re: Who is here because they just don't like working?
« Reply #75 on: January 19, 2021, 07:09:13 PM »
I had always thought there was something seriously wrong with me as I never grasped the nuances of office politics, in both the public and private sectors.  I just wanted to do my damn job and go home without participating in bitchiness or gossip (the library world I know was full if it). Now, as we don't *need* the money, I am an office temp and if I don't like a particular workplace I tell my job agency and refuse to work there again.  I have received offers to work full-time or part-time at a few places  but there is no way in hell. I love the variety and flexibility too much.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2021, 07:11:42 PM by lazycow »

GuitarStv

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Re: Who is here because they just don't like working?
« Reply #76 on: January 20, 2021, 07:06:21 AM »
Would you do your job if you weren't paid?  If yes, then you love your job.

Sort of...it's a little more nuanced than that though, depending on what your options are.

I love my work, but I have so many ways to pivot that if one stops paying, I can focus my energies in another direction. That said, I've always done a ton of unpaid work, so there is that.

I flat out disagree with the comment.

A few years back I was laid off from my programming job (which I had grown to hate) . . . and I had 9 months off while searching for a new job.  During that time I started programming again for fun (and for free).  Doing it for fun, on my own schedule, and for my own reasons was a completely and totally different experience than doing it for money.

Like, I love to play my guitar too.  It takes up a sizeable chunk of my spare time (and has done so for years).  But I'm willing to bet that if I had to get up at 6 in the morning each weekday to drive an hour to a place to play music I don't like for 8-9 hrs a day with other people who hate playing, interrupted only with long and tedious meetings about what the corporate acceptable note choice would be in certain circumstances . . . that would soon be very miserable.

The circumstances surrounding your job and people you interact with day to day impact whether you love your work at least as much as whether or not you like what you do.

DeniseNJ

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Re: Who is here because they just don't like working?
« Reply #77 on: January 20, 2021, 10:01:42 AM »
I like my job, my staff, colleagues, boss, I like the work, my office space, although I hate the commute, but now I'm working from home so it's all good.

And yet . . . while I like my job, I don't like it enough to do it one day longer than I have to. I have about a dozen other things off the top of my head I would rather be doing, and taking a nap is high on that list. I'd rather be knitting or dying yarn, wood working or welding, gardening or cooking. I mean there's a whole giant world out there, so spending 40 hours per week on the job just doesn't seem like the best use of my time, except that I still have over 7 yrs on the clock.

I'm retiring on Aug. 4, 2028--it's a Friday and the end of a pay period. I could go on Wednesday but I'll give them two more days to finish out the week. But only bc I like my job. :)

goat_music_generator

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Re: Who is here because they just don't like working?
« Reply #78 on: January 20, 2021, 10:26:11 AM »
A few years back I was laid off from my programming job (which I had grown to hate) . . . and I had 9 months off while searching for a new job.  During that time I started programming again for fun (and for free).  Doing it for fun, on my own schedule, and for my own reasons was a completely and totally different experience than doing it for money.

Like, I love to play my guitar too.  It takes up a sizeable chunk of my spare time (and has done so for years).  But I'm willing to bet that if I had to get up at 6 in the morning each weekday to drive an hour to a place to play music I don't like for 8-9 hrs a day with other people who hate playing, interrupted only with long and tedious meetings about what the corporate acceptable note choice would be in certain circumstances . . . that would soon be very miserable.

The circumstances surrounding your job and people you interact with day to day impact whether you love your work at least as much as whether or not you like what you do.

This is such a great point, and I think encapsulates my feelings about working as a programmer as well. I plan to spend a lot of time programming once I've left work -- just, on my own terms.

John Galt incarnate!

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Re: Who is here because they just don't like working?
« Reply #79 on: January 20, 2021, 10:40:15 AM »

I'm retiring on Aug. 4, 2028--it's a Friday and the end of a pay period. I could go on Wednesday but I'll give them two more days to finish out the week. But only bc I like my job. :)

Oh what precise timing of commencement of your FIREtirement!

Malcat

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Re: Who is here because they just don't like working?
« Reply #80 on: January 20, 2021, 10:43:41 AM »
Would you do your job if you weren't paid?  If yes, then you love your job.

Sort of...it's a little more nuanced than that though, depending on what your options are.

I love my work, but I have so many ways to pivot that if one stops paying, I can focus my energies in another direction. That said, I've always done a ton of unpaid work, so there is that.

I flat out disagree with the comment.

A few years back I was laid off from my programming job (which I had grown to hate) . . . and I had 9 months off while searching for a new job.  During that time I started programming again for fun (and for free).  Doing it for fun, on my own schedule, and for my own reasons was a completely and totally different experience than doing it for money.

Like, I love to play my guitar too.  It takes up a sizeable chunk of my spare time (and has done so for years).  But I'm willing to bet that if I had to get up at 6 in the morning each weekday to drive an hour to a place to play music I don't like for 8-9 hrs a day with other people who hate playing, interrupted only with long and tedious meetings about what the corporate acceptable note choice would be in certain circumstances . . . that would soon be very miserable.

The circumstances surrounding your job and people you interact with day to day impact whether you love your work at least as much as whether or not you like what you do.

Nothing I said is incompatible with what you have said. You're describing examples where the paid version of an activity is markedly different from the unpaid version.
That's apples and oranges.

OF COURSE the circumstances of jobs matter. That's part of why I prefer paid work, because most of my opportunities to do my work unpaid involve circumstances I dislike, like working with a bunch of egotistical saviour-complex, power tripping assholes. In other areas of my work, doing work for free is the only viable option, so it completely depends on the circumstances.

That's why I said there's more nuance to it than just the flat statement that the only people who love their jobs are those who would do it for free.

My point wasn't that circumstances don't matter, and I have no idea how you got that from my post.

My personal example was that I have *so many* fantastic options for doing paid work I love on my own terms, that if a paid option stops paying, I'm likely to move on to a different, equally fun paid option instead of just sticking around unpaid.

But that doesn't mean I didn't love the work. 

GuitarStv

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Re: Who is here because they just don't like working?
« Reply #81 on: January 20, 2021, 10:51:53 AM »
Would you do your job if you weren't paid?  If yes, then you love your job.

Sort of...it's a little more nuanced than that though, depending on what your options are.

I love my work, but I have so many ways to pivot that if one stops paying, I can focus my energies in another direction. That said, I've always done a ton of unpaid work, so there is that.

I flat out disagree with the comment.

A few years back I was laid off from my programming job (which I had grown to hate) . . . and I had 9 months off while searching for a new job.  During that time I started programming again for fun (and for free).  Doing it for fun, on my own schedule, and for my own reasons was a completely and totally different experience than doing it for money.

Like, I love to play my guitar too.  It takes up a sizeable chunk of my spare time (and has done so for years).  But I'm willing to bet that if I had to get up at 6 in the morning each weekday to drive an hour to a place to play music I don't like for 8-9 hrs a day with other people who hate playing, interrupted only with long and tedious meetings about what the corporate acceptable note choice would be in certain circumstances . . . that would soon be very miserable.

The circumstances surrounding your job and people you interact with day to day impact whether you love your work at least as much as whether or not you like what you do.

Nothing I said is incompatible with what you have said. You're describing examples where the paid version of an activity is markedly different from the unpaid version.
That's apples and oranges.

OF COURSE the circumstances of jobs matter. That's part of why I prefer paid work, because most of my opportunities to do my work unpaid involve circumstances I dislike, like working with a bunch of egotistical saviour-complex, power tripping assholes. In other areas of my work, doing work for free is the only viable option, so it completely depends on the circumstances.

That's why I said there's more nuance to it than just the flat statement that the only people who love their jobs are those who would do it for free.

My point wasn't that circumstances don't matter, and I have no idea how you got that from my post.

My personal example was that I have *so many* fantastic options for doing paid work I love on my own terms, that if a paid option stops paying, I'm likely to move on to a different, equally fun paid option instead of just sticking around unpaid.

But that doesn't mean I didn't love the work.

I was responding to Hawkeye, not you Malcat.  Sorry, grabbed the wrong post while replying!

Malcat

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Re: Who is here because they just don't like working?
« Reply #82 on: January 20, 2021, 11:31:25 AM »
Would you do your job if you weren't paid?  If yes, then you love your job.

Sort of...it's a little more nuanced than that though, depending on what your options are.

I love my work, but I have so many ways to pivot that if one stops paying, I can focus my energies in another direction. That said, I've always done a ton of unpaid work, so there is that.

I flat out disagree with the comment.

A few years back I was laid off from my programming job (which I had grown to hate) . . . and I had 9 months off while searching for a new job.  During that time I started programming again for fun (and for free).  Doing it for fun, on my own schedule, and for my own reasons was a completely and totally different experience than doing it for money.

Like, I love to play my guitar too.  It takes up a sizeable chunk of my spare time (and has done so for years).  But I'm willing to bet that if I had to get up at 6 in the morning each weekday to drive an hour to a place to play music I don't like for 8-9 hrs a day with other people who hate playing, interrupted only with long and tedious meetings about what the corporate acceptable note choice would be in certain circumstances . . . that would soon be very miserable.

The circumstances surrounding your job and people you interact with day to day impact whether you love your work at least as much as whether or not you like what you do.

Nothing I said is incompatible with what you have said. You're describing examples where the paid version of an activity is markedly different from the unpaid version.
That's apples and oranges.

OF COURSE the circumstances of jobs matter. That's part of why I prefer paid work, because most of my opportunities to do my work unpaid involve circumstances I dislike, like working with a bunch of egotistical saviour-complex, power tripping assholes. In other areas of my work, doing work for free is the only viable option, so it completely depends on the circumstances.

That's why I said there's more nuance to it than just the flat statement that the only people who love their jobs are those who would do it for free.

My point wasn't that circumstances don't matter, and I have no idea how you got that from my post.

My personal example was that I have *so many* fantastic options for doing paid work I love on my own terms, that if a paid option stops paying, I'm likely to move on to a different, equally fun paid option instead of just sticking around unpaid.

But that doesn't mean I didn't love the work.

I was responding to Hawkeye, not you Malcat.  Sorry, grabbed the wrong post while replying!

Hahahaha! I was SO CONFUSED

soccerluvof4

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Re: Who is here because they just don't like working?
« Reply #83 on: January 20, 2021, 02:05:18 PM »
I think the original question was are you here because you dont like working. I didnt like working anymore as I was self-employed with up to 50 employees at times. I do still feel the need/desire to feel productive in being Fire'd. Sometimes it feels like work and sometimes it doesnt BUT in either case I like it a hell of alot more than what I was doing.

Morning Glory

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Re: Who is here because they just don't like working?
« Reply #84 on: January 21, 2021, 07:18:20 AM »
I don't mind actual work -- using my brain to solve problems, write, or create something. I do hate all the BS that comes with a 9-5 job, regardless of how good the company, mission, boss, or colleagues are.

I hate strategic planning, SMART goals, budgeting, meetings, conference calls, performance appraisals, reminding people of deadlines, feigning patience with idiots who didn't read the effing email, submitting timecards, filling out HR forms, commuting, office birthday parties, chipping in for baby shower gifts, wearing uncomfortable clothes, stressing at night, having other people control my time...

I'd love to know who these mythical unicorns are who "love their job." How can you love your job when it inevitably comes with all that BS?

What I hated most about work was performance appraisals! I would have to spend hours each December going through my diary to pick out "achievements". It was especially bad when I worked for a megacorp - the annual appraisal process was often very political. Rewards were completely uncorrelated with actual achievements.

Oh, I hate those too. I used to just copy and paste from the previous year.

djadziadax

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Re: Who is here because they just don't like working?
« Reply #85 on: January 21, 2021, 01:06:34 PM »
I like doing things, solving mysteries, but I don't like the structure of work - the structure of 9-5 as others have said and the complete lack of flexibility of my time. I have very autonomous setup, no direct reports, report directly to a very senior person in the org, can do my duties in 2-3 hrs daily, and still, I really have the expectation of the 9-5 and only 2 weeks vacation. If I were a writer (and not need the income that much), or an independent scientist (like it was in the middle ages), or a private detective (like in the show Elementary) or an artists or some profession where i can set my own hours an am not a cog in the greater machinery of an organization, I would be happy to do "work." Being part of an organization is extremely limiting.

That is why I am here, I think, and for the financial security.

effigy98

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Re: Who is here because they just don't like working?
« Reply #86 on: January 21, 2021, 01:43:46 PM »
It's not working that bothers me. It's working on someone else's projects and schedules. But ya, working for the man is miserable for me about half the time, to the point where I read retire early blogs and calculate every single cent I own to get the hours left to work before I can stop working for the man. I plan on "working" on something after FI, but it won't be something that rekts my life like a normal job does.

I think there is also a new dynamic now too. I mean, if I can sit at home and collect stimmie checks and pay my bills, WHY would I keep working a stressful, disruptive, and unrewarding modern day slave job? My goal has always been to get my expenses as LOW as possible (solar, water capture, garden, passive tax free income, etc) so I can qualify for all this free money instead of being a wage slave that pays 6 figure taxes.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2021, 01:49:03 PM by effigy98 »

Dreamer40

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Re: Who is here because they just don't like working?
« Reply #87 on: January 21, 2021, 02:37:36 PM »
It seems I probably don't like working. I've worked in a lot of different fields and environments and always feel a mixture of stress, annoyance, and boredom. There are parts of jobs I've liked a lot. But I still harbor some level of resentment toward whatever constraints are put on my freedom. Like I hate the arbitrariness of "work clothes."

whywork

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Re: Who is here because they just don't like working?
« Reply #88 on: January 21, 2021, 08:37:20 PM »
I never liked working; two main reasons:
  • I find difficult people almost in every workplace and find it hard to deal with them. Slightly difficult situations and people are everywhere but I probably focus too much on them and they become bigger in my mind
  • I enjoy my laziness and my freedom to do whatever I want; whether it be watching netflix or reading books or taking a stroll in the park. Don't like selling that freedom and "lazying around" for money

John Galt incarnate!

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Re: Who is here because they just don't like working?
« Reply #89 on: January 21, 2021, 11:30:30 PM »

I enjoy my laziness and my freedom to do whatever I want

+1

Life is finite.

As an Epicurean  hedonist who luxuriates in ataraxia,  nothing surpasses  my enjoyment of my FIREtirement's  leisure time to think, do whatever else  I want, or nothing at all.

"I love to work at nothing all day."


"Takin' Care Of Business"   Bachman–Turner Overdrive

You get up every morning from your alarm clock's warning
Take the 8:15 into the city
There's a whistle up above and people pushin', people shovin'
And the girls who try to look pretty
And if your train's on time, you can get to work by nine
And start your slaving job to get your pay
If you ever get annoyed, look at me I'm self-employed
I love to work at nothing all day
And I'll be taking care of business (every day)
Taking care of business (every way)
I've been taking care of business (it's all mine)
Taking care of business and working overtime, work out
If it were easy as fishin' you could be a musician
If you could make sounds loud or mellow
Get a second-hand guitar, chances are you'll go far
If you get in with the right bunch of fellows
People see you…
« Last Edit: January 21, 2021, 11:45:43 PM by John Galt incarnate! »