Author Topic: Where y'all parking cash these days?  (Read 2558 times)

the_gastropod

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Where y'all parking cash these days?
« on: November 30, 2022, 11:20:41 AM »
I'm keeping my eyes open for buying a house, so I've been saving up my cash allotment for the impending down payment, should I find a place. I've got a bit north of $40k in cash now, so I'm not exactly missing out on life-altering interest payments, but would certainly be nice to do a little better. My current checking account pays a measly 0.1% interest rate. Any bright ideas on what options make the most sense for this kind of scenario? Higher-interest savings accounts? CD's? Short-term bonds? Savings bonds?

Raenia

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Re: Where y'all parking cash these days?
« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2022, 11:23:03 AM »
We're saving up a downpayment as well, and we've been parking it in a Discover account at 3%.  I believe Ally bank also has 3% right now.

Sibley

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Re: Where y'all parking cash these days?
« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2022, 11:50:08 AM »
Ally just went to 3%. That's where my e-fund is.

Fomerly known as something

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Re: Where y'all parking cash these days?
« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2022, 12:11:43 PM »
Amex Savings is also 3%.

dividendman

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Re: Where y'all parking cash these days?
« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2022, 12:55:09 PM »
I use T-Bills, you can get them for 4 weeks or longer durations. The 4-week is yielding about 4% right now: https://www.treasurydirect.gov/auctions/announcements-data-results/

englishteacheralex

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Re: Where y'all parking cash these days?
« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2022, 12:59:04 PM »
We also have been doing T-Bills for the past six months, since the rates became so good. We ladder them.

Holocene

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Re: Where y'all parking cash these days?
« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2022, 05:23:43 PM »
Another vote for T-bills.  I recently switched my savings at Ally over to Fidelity to put in a T-bill ladder.  I got rates of 4-4.7% for 2-6 months duration when I bought last Friday.  I was sick of Ally lagging so far behind in their rate increases.  It's easy to buy T-bills at Fidelity either at auction or on the secondary market.  They offer AutoRoll as well if you buy at auction.  If you're not sure when you need the money, you could AutoRoll 4 week T-bills and turn it off when you think you're getting close to needing it.  But if you think it'll be >4weeks, going longer duration will get you more yield.  Worst case, you need to sell early and lose a bit of interest.  There is a chance of losing principal, but seems unlikely on these short durations.

Fidelity has an offer until Friday where you get $150 if you open an account and deposit $50.  I had Fidelity accounts already but opened up a new account for this bonus.
https://www.fidelity.com/go/special-offer/holiday

You could also consider money market funds if you don't want to deal with T-bills.  They have a lower yield but basically no risk of losing money and are still better than most savings accounts.  The ones at Fidelity generally aren't as good as Vanguard unless you have >$100k to invest.  Vanguard has VMFXX and VUSXX which are both yielding around 3.6-3.7%.  I just moved all my stocks out of Vanguard but I think I'll leave some cash in the money market accounts.

Another good thing about treasuries and treasury money market accounts is that they're state tax-free.  So that will bump up your effective yield compared to a regular savings account if you live in a state with income taxes.

dividendman

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Re: Where y'all parking cash these days?
« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2022, 05:42:35 PM »
You can also do all of what was described by Holocene from treasurydirect.gov which gives it to you... you guessed it, direct from the treasury. :) Although I'd guess fidelity's interface is far superior.

chasingsnow

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Re: Where y'all parking cash these days?
« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2022, 06:24:14 PM »
Doing the same thing re saving up for a down payment. Ive parked the $40k needed in a high-interest savings account. My credit union currently has a promo for 4.5% interest for the next 3 months!!

Holocene

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Re: Where y'all parking cash these days?
« Reply #9 on: November 30, 2022, 07:03:38 PM »
@dividendman - True.  The problem is you can't trade the T-bills if you buy directly from Treasury Direct.  You are stuck waiting until they mature, or you need to transfer it to a brokerage first to sell it.  I've heard it's a pain in the ass to do and takes a long time.  For short-term bills, maybe you're ok with potentially being locked up until maturity.  But buying at a brokerage gives you the ability to sell at any time and have the money to withdraw within days.  To me, that's worth it.  And as you said, I do think the interface is better.  I like Fidelity, but you could do Vanguard or Schwab or probably any other broker.

I believe at Treasury Direct you can buy in smaller increments which could be one advantage.  At brokerages, you need to buy at $1k intervals.  But probably not a real consideration for OP with $40k.

the_gastropod

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Re: Where y'all parking cash these days?
« Reply #10 on: December 01, 2022, 07:48:11 AM »
Some really great options here, everybody! Thank you.

I think I'm going to do the money market fund @ Vanguard for now, since my timeline is so unknown—I could need to access the money next week. I had no idea the money market funds had such decent yields these days. Been missing out!

Also had no clue about T-Bills. They seem like a rather useful tool to get some low-risk post-retirement liquidity.

DrinkCoffeeStackMoney

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Re: Where y'all parking cash these days?
« Reply #11 on: December 01, 2022, 07:57:24 AM »
I Just opened a CD at my local credit union. 24 month term paying 4.5%. Minimum $5 to open and I can add to it any time. The 4.5% rate is also locked in, so if rates go down in the future and I let the CD roll over in 24 months the 4.5% is still locked in until it's cashed out.

Arbitrage

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Re: Where y'all parking cash these days?
« Reply #12 on: December 01, 2022, 09:04:03 AM »
Just been keeping the excess in my Vanguard Money Market settlement fund, ready for next year's IRA contributions.  I could do better, but at 3.69% currently, I could also do worse for highly liquid savings. 

dividendman

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Re: Where y'all parking cash these days?
« Reply #13 on: December 01, 2022, 09:19:22 AM »
@dividendman - True.  The problem is you can't trade the T-bills if you buy directly from Treasury Direct.  You are stuck waiting until they mature, or you need to transfer it to a brokerage first to sell it.  I've heard it's a pain in the ass to do and takes a long time.  For short-term bills, maybe you're ok with potentially being locked up until maturity.  But buying at a brokerage gives you the ability to sell at any time and have the money to withdraw within days.  To me, that's worth it.  And as you said, I do think the interface is better.  I like Fidelity, but you could do Vanguard or Schwab or probably any other broker.

I believe at Treasury Direct you can buy in smaller increments which could be one advantage.  At brokerages, you need to buy at $1k intervals.  But probably not a real consideration for OP with $40k.

What fee does fidelity charge for T-Bill transactions?

index

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Re: Where y'all parking cash these days?
« Reply #14 on: December 01, 2022, 09:24:41 AM »
@dividendman - True.  The problem is you can't trade the T-bills if you buy directly from Treasury Direct.  You are stuck waiting until they mature, or you need to transfer it to a brokerage first to sell it.  I've heard it's a pain in the ass to do and takes a long time.  For short-term bills, maybe you're ok with potentially being locked up until maturity.  But buying at a brokerage gives you the ability to sell at any time and have the money to withdraw within days.  To me, that's worth it.  And as you said, I do think the interface is better.  I like Fidelity, but you could do Vanguard or Schwab or probably any other broker.

I believe at Treasury Direct you can buy in smaller increments which could be one advantage.  At brokerages, you need to buy at $1k intervals.  But probably not a real consideration for OP with $40k.


What fee does fidelity charge for T-Bill transactions?

$0; Their MMA is yielding 3.33% right now as well. Here is a look at the current secondary market options for fixed income on Fidelity:

« Last Edit: December 01, 2022, 09:27:46 AM by index »

dividendman

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Re: Where y'all parking cash these days?
« Reply #15 on: December 01, 2022, 09:42:55 AM »
@dividendman - True.  The problem is you can't trade the T-bills if you buy directly from Treasury Direct.  You are stuck waiting until they mature, or you need to transfer it to a brokerage first to sell it.  I've heard it's a pain in the ass to do and takes a long time.  For short-term bills, maybe you're ok with potentially being locked up until maturity.  But buying at a brokerage gives you the ability to sell at any time and have the money to withdraw within days.  To me, that's worth it.  And as you said, I do think the interface is better.  I like Fidelity, but you could do Vanguard or Schwab or probably any other broker.

I believe at Treasury Direct you can buy in smaller increments which could be one advantage.  At brokerages, you need to buy at $1k intervals.  But probably not a real consideration for OP with $40k.


What fee does fidelity charge for T-Bill transactions?

$0; Their MMA is yielding 3.33% right now as well. Here is a look at the current secondary market options for fixed income on Fidelity:

Thanks... dang, might have to open yet another brokerage account. This way I don't have to deal with the TreasuryDirect interface. My other brokerages (wells fargo, chase, citi) require me to call in for any fixed income trades that aren't ETFs. It's ridiculous. At least my HSA is already with Fidelity so I don't need to do everything brand new.

index

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Re: Where y'all parking cash these days?
« Reply #16 on: December 01, 2022, 10:53:52 AM »
@dividendman - True.  The problem is you can't trade the T-bills if you buy directly from Treasury Direct.  You are stuck waiting until they mature, or you need to transfer it to a brokerage first to sell it.  I've heard it's a pain in the ass to do and takes a long time.  For short-term bills, maybe you're ok with potentially being locked up until maturity.  But buying at a brokerage gives you the ability to sell at any time and have the money to withdraw within days.  To me, that's worth it.  And as you said, I do think the interface is better.  I like Fidelity, but you could do Vanguard or Schwab or probably any other broker.

I believe at Treasury Direct you can buy in smaller increments which could be one advantage.  At brokerages, you need to buy at $1k intervals.  But probably not a real consideration for OP with $40k.


What fee does fidelity charge for T-Bill transactions?

$0; Their MMA is yielding 3.33% right now as well. Here is a look at the current secondary market options for fixed income on Fidelity:

Thanks... dang, might have to open yet another brokerage account. This way I don't have to deal with the TreasuryDirect interface. My other brokerages (wells fargo, chase, citi) require me to call in for any fixed income trades that aren't ETFs. It's ridiculous. At least my HSA is already with Fidelity so I don't need to do everything brand new.

I switched everything to Fidelity several years ago. Their Cash Management Account (similar to checking) has free worldwide ATM fee reimbursement and free wire transfers (helpful if you are buying a house or car). Money transfers instantly from Fidelity to Fidelity accounts and you can use a Margin enabled brokerage as an overdraft reserve to your CMA so you can write a huge check and not worry if you have enough liquidity.

The brokerage has fractional share trading on any exchange listed security, free t-bill transactions, $1 fixed income trades, and 65c option trades. You can also open up most account types including a HSA as you have found. I really like their new solo Fid-Folios which is self directed direct indexing similar to M1. Fidelity doesn't allow ETFs yet in Fid-Folios, but it is on their radar. The direct indexing makes tax loss harvesting easy.     

EchoStache

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Re: Where y'all parking cash these days?
« Reply #17 on: December 01, 2022, 12:26:25 PM »
SPRXX is yielding 3.7/3.76 without any lockup period i.e. CD's, Treasuries, and should be over 4% this month with the next FFR increase i.e. even closer to the current yield you can get by tying up your money.  It seems as though SPRXX does carry non-zero risk though, but maybe safe enough?

Holocene

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Re: Where y'all parking cash these days?
« Reply #18 on: December 01, 2022, 01:42:06 PM »
Thanks... dang, might have to open yet another brokerage account. This way I don't have to deal with the TreasuryDirect interface. My other brokerages (wells fargo, chase, citi) require me to call in for any fixed income trades that aren't ETFs. It's ridiculous. At least my HSA is already with Fidelity so I don't need to do everything brand new.

I've dealt with TreasuryDirect for I bonds and do not want to deal with it any more than I have to!  I really like Fidelity personally.  There's a nice (long) Bogleheads thread on trading treasuries with good screenshots of how to do things.  It's pretty easy once you know where to go, what to do, and what to look for.  At Fidelity, you can do it all online with no fees.

I'm slowly consolidating most of my accounts to Fidelity.  I have a bit at Vanguard left, some at Merrill Edge for the Preferred Rewards, and my 401k.  I like Fidelity the best of all of them.  And like I said, right now there's a nice sign up bonus until tomorrow, so why not?  If you already have an HSA with them, I bet you can sign up in a few minutes.

dividendman

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Re: Where y'all parking cash these days?
« Reply #19 on: December 01, 2022, 02:44:23 PM »
Thanks... dang, might have to open yet another brokerage account. This way I don't have to deal with the TreasuryDirect interface. My other brokerages (wells fargo, chase, citi) require me to call in for any fixed income trades that aren't ETFs. It's ridiculous. At least my HSA is already with Fidelity so I don't need to do everything brand new.

I've dealt with TreasuryDirect for I bonds and do not want to deal with it any more than I have to!  I really like Fidelity personally.  There's a nice (long) Bogleheads thread on trading treasuries with good screenshots of how to do things.  It's pretty easy once you know where to go, what to do, and what to look for.  At Fidelity, you can do it all online with no fees.

I'm slowly consolidating most of my accounts to Fidelity.  I have a bit at Vanguard left, some at Merrill Edge for the Preferred Rewards, and my 401k.  I like Fidelity the best of all of them.  And like I said, right now there's a nice sign up bonus until tomorrow, so why not?  If you already have an HSA with them, I bet you can sign up in a few minutes.

Ok, I opened the cash account for now just for the bonus, but I'll open the brokerage account soon (once my T-Bills are near maturing), hopefully they'll be another bonus offer for that, haha.

Sigh, I do have too many accounts though. TreasuryDirect, Citi, Chase, BofA/Merril, Fidelity, Wells Fargo and a few credit cards that aren't in any of those... oh well, they all give me some good perks.

Holocene

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Re: Where y'all parking cash these days?
« Reply #20 on: December 01, 2022, 04:33:41 PM »
Thanks... dang, might have to open yet another brokerage account. This way I don't have to deal with the TreasuryDirect interface. My other brokerages (wells fargo, chase, citi) require me to call in for any fixed income trades that aren't ETFs. It's ridiculous. At least my HSA is already with Fidelity so I don't need to do everything brand new.

I've dealt with TreasuryDirect for I bonds and do not want to deal with it any more than I have to!  I really like Fidelity personally.  There's a nice (long) Bogleheads thread on trading treasuries with good screenshots of how to do things.  It's pretty easy once you know where to go, what to do, and what to look for.  At Fidelity, you can do it all online with no fees.

I'm slowly consolidating most of my accounts to Fidelity.  I have a bit at Vanguard left, some at Merrill Edge for the Preferred Rewards, and my 401k.  I like Fidelity the best of all of them.  And like I said, right now there's a nice sign up bonus until tomorrow, so why not?  If you already have an HSA with them, I bet you can sign up in a few minutes.

Ok, I opened the cash account for now just for the bonus, but I'll open the brokerage account soon (once my T-Bills are near maturing), hopefully they'll be another bonus offer for that, haha.

Sigh, I do have too many accounts though. TreasuryDirect, Citi, Chase, BofA/Merril, Fidelity, Wells Fargo and a few credit cards that aren't in any of those... oh well, they all give me some good perks.

I get it.  I have a lot of accounts as well and way too many credit cards.  The Bank of America ecosystem lured me in this year.  But I've made over $2k just this year from them between transfer bonuses, credit card signup bonuses, and regular credit card rewards.  That seems worth it.

A note on the Fidelity account - I think the bonus would've worked for a regular brokerage too or an IRA, but I guess too late for you now.  But you can buy T-bills in the CMA account if you want.  I think you can buy stocks as well.  I just opened the CMA so it's still new to me.  It seems almost the same as the regular brokerage account.  So far, it seems like the main difference is that your "Core" position cannot be in a money market fund (FDRXX or SPAXX) like it can be in the brokerage account.  But you can just buy those and I think it'll automatically cash out for withdrawals or trades.  In any case, I successfully bought some T-bills in my CMA so I at least know that's possible in case you don't want another account!

iluvzbeach

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Re: Where y'all parking cash these days?
« Reply #21 on: December 01, 2022, 05:09:12 PM »
Hey, I just want to thank everyone for the outstanding information posted on this thread. Great info that I plan to come back and revisit.

Captain Cactus

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Re: Where y'all parking cash these days?
« Reply #22 on: December 02, 2022, 05:59:31 AM »
@dividendman - True.  The problem is you can't trade the T-bills if you buy directly from Treasury Direct.  You are stuck waiting until they mature, or you need to transfer it to a brokerage first to sell it.  I've heard it's a pain in the ass to do and takes a long time.  For short-term bills, maybe you're ok with potentially being locked up until maturity.  But buying at a brokerage gives you the ability to sell at any time and have the money to withdraw within days.  To me, that's worth it.  And as you said, I do think the interface is better.  I like Fidelity, but you could do Vanguard or Schwab or probably any other broker.

I believe at Treasury Direct you can buy in smaller increments which could be one advantage.  At brokerages, you need to buy at $1k intervals.  But probably not a real consideration for OP with $40k.

Question about principal loss.  If you buy t bill at auction on Fidelity, Vanguard, etc… there is no loss in principal if you hold to maturity, is that accurate?  Meaning if you put your 2 month t bill on the auction again before maturity you’ll get what you anticipate for yield through maturity?

index

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Re: Where y'all parking cash these days?
« Reply #23 on: December 02, 2022, 07:29:40 AM »
@dividendman - True.  The problem is you can't trade the T-bills if you buy directly from Treasury Direct.  You are stuck waiting until they mature, or you need to transfer it to a brokerage first to sell it.  I've heard it's a pain in the ass to do and takes a long time.  For short-term bills, maybe you're ok with potentially being locked up until maturity.  But buying at a brokerage gives you the ability to sell at any time and have the money to withdraw within days.  To me, that's worth it.  And as you said, I do think the interface is better.  I like Fidelity, but you could do Vanguard or Schwab or probably any other broker.

I believe at Treasury Direct you can buy in smaller increments which could be one advantage.  At brokerages, you need to buy at $1k intervals.  But probably not a real consideration for OP with $40k.

Question about principal loss.  If you buy t bill at auction on Fidelity, Vanguard, etc… there is no loss in principal if you hold to maturity, is that accurate?  Meaning if you put your 2 month t bill on the auction again before maturity you’ll get what you anticipate for yield through maturity?

Your 2-month T-Bill will be redeemed for the principal + interest in 2 months. If you sell it at action at the 30 day mark, your bond will be priced based on the the prevailing interest rate at the time plus 30 days of accrued interest. If interest rates increased, you could potentially lose a small amount of principal and a small 10 bps loss on the bid/ask spread. 

Holocene

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Re: Where y'all parking cash these days?
« Reply #24 on: December 02, 2022, 08:13:01 AM »
@dividendman - True.  The problem is you can't trade the T-bills if you buy directly from Treasury Direct.  You are stuck waiting until they mature, or you need to transfer it to a brokerage first to sell it.  I've heard it's a pain in the ass to do and takes a long time.  For short-term bills, maybe you're ok with potentially being locked up until maturity.  But buying at a brokerage gives you the ability to sell at any time and have the money to withdraw within days.  To me, that's worth it.  And as you said, I do think the interface is better.  I like Fidelity, but you could do Vanguard or Schwab or probably any other broker.

I believe at Treasury Direct you can buy in smaller increments which could be one advantage.  At brokerages, you need to buy at $1k intervals.  But probably not a real consideration for OP with $40k.

Question about principal loss.  If you buy t bill at auction on Fidelity, Vanguard, etc… there is no loss in principal if you hold to maturity, is that accurate?  Meaning if you put your 2 month t bill on the auction again before maturity you’ll get what you anticipate for yield through maturity?

If you buy a t-bill at auction anywhere and hold until maturity, you will not lose principal and will earn the interest rate determined at the auction.  You do not know beforehand what the interest rate will be, but you can usually estimate based on what secondary bills are trading for.

T-bills are zero coupon.  So that means you buy at a price <$100 and get $100 back when they mature.  Take the recent 4 week t-bill which auctioned yesterday.  It's issued Dec 6 and matures Jan 3.  The price was 99.692778.  So the annualized rate is: ((100-99.692778)/99.692778) * (365/28) = 4.017%.  On Jan 3, you will get $100 back for every $99.692778 that you put into it.

If you were to sell this before it matures on Jan 3, you are not guaranteed to get a price above 99.692778 so you could lose principal.  Say the next 4 week t-bill auctioned for 20% interest rate.  No one will want your now 3 week t-bill paying 4%.  So you'd need to sell for a discount so a new investor would get something near the equivalent of the new 20% bill.  This would be a price of 98.862 to get an equivalent of 20% on a 3 week bill.

Obviously that's an extreme example.  If rates only rose from 4 to 5%, the price would be 99.713 so you wouldn't lose principal in this case, except maybe on the bid/ask spread.  But even that is highly unlikely to happen in one week.  It took most of this year of aggressive rate hikes to get from 0 to 4%.  So I think 4 week t-bills are pretty darn safe even if you need to sell early.  The longer the term, the more risk you take if you need liquidity, but also the higher rate you get.  I built myself a ladder with bills maturing every month or so.  I may need these for everyday expenses as I'm semi-retired and will be putting the majority of my part-time income into my Roth and HSA.  If I don't need the money as it matures, I'll buy another 6 month t-bill and keep the ladder rolling.

You say "put up for auction again" but I assume you mean selling the t-bill on the secondary market.  T-bills trade just like stocks.  You sell yours to a willing buyer.  There is no auction after the initial purchase.

Hope that helps.  Sorry to hijack the thread a bit OP.  Your approach of using a money market account makes sense if you think you might need the money quickly.  The important thing is getting it out of your current account paying basically nothing.

HenryDavid

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Re: Where y'all parking cash these days?
« Reply #25 on: December 02, 2022, 09:54:58 AM »
For Canadians:
Even big banks are paying nice rates on savings. I just activated a “special” rate at Tangerine bank of 4.75%. On savings accounts.
And GIC rates are really great even for 1 year right now.
Take a look if ya got cash to park.

GuitarStv

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Re: Where y'all parking cash these days?
« Reply #26 on: December 02, 2022, 09:57:51 AM »
Our cash is all parked in our investments.

Captain Cactus

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Re: Where y'all parking cash these days?
« Reply #27 on: December 02, 2022, 12:20:25 PM »
@dividendman - True.  The problem is you can't trade the T-bills if you buy directly from Treasury Direct.  You are stuck waiting until they mature, or you need to transfer it to a brokerage first to sell it.  I've heard it's a pain in the ass to do and takes a long time.  For short-term bills, maybe you're ok with potentially being locked up until maturity.  But buying at a brokerage gives you the ability to sell at any time and have the money to withdraw within days.  To me, that's worth it.  And as you said, I do think the interface is better.  I like Fidelity, but you could do Vanguard or Schwab or probably any other broker.

I believe at Treasury Direct you can buy in smaller increments which could be one advantage.  At brokerages, you need to buy at $1k intervals.  But probably not a real consideration for OP with $40k.

Thank you, very helpful!!!

Question about principal loss.  If you buy t bill at auction on Fidelity, Vanguard, etc… there is no loss in principal if you hold to maturity, is that accurate?  Meaning if you put your 2 month t bill on the auction again before maturity you’ll get what you anticipate for yield through maturity?

If you buy a t-bill at auction anywhere and hold until maturity, you will not lose principal and will earn the interest rate determined at the auction.  You do not know beforehand what the interest rate will be, but you can usually estimate based on what secondary bills are trading for.

T-bills are zero coupon.  So that means you buy at a price <$100 and get $100 back when they mature.  Take the recent 4 week t-bill which auctioned yesterday.  It's issued Dec 6 and matures Jan 3.  The price was 99.692778.  So the annualized rate is: ((100-99.692778)/99.692778) * (365/28) = 4.017%.  On Jan 3, you will get $100 back for every $99.692778 that you put into it.

If you were to sell this before it matures on Jan 3, you are not guaranteed to get a price above 99.692778 so you could lose principal.  Say the next 4 week t-bill auctioned for 20% interest rate.  No one will want your now 3 week t-bill paying 4%.  So you'd need to sell for a discount so a new investor would get something near the equivalent of the new 20% bill.  This would be a price of 98.862 to get an equivalent of 20% on a 3 week bill.

Obviously that's an extreme example.  If rates only rose from 4 to 5%, the price would be 99.713 so you wouldn't lose principal in this case, except maybe on the bid/ask spread.  But even that is highly unlikely to happen in one week.  It took most of this year of aggressive rate hikes to get from 0 to 4%.  So I think 4 week t-bills are pretty darn safe even if you need to sell early.  The longer the term, the more risk you take if you need liquidity, but also the higher rate you get.  I built myself a ladder with bills maturing every month or so.  I may need these for everyday expenses as I'm semi-retired and will be putting the majority of my part-time income into my Roth and HSA.  If I don't need the money as it matures, I'll buy another 6 month t-bill and keep the ladder rolling.

You say "put up for auction again" but I assume you mean selling the t-bill on the secondary market.  T-bills trade just like stocks.  You sell yours to a willing buyer.  There is no auction after the initial purchase.

Hope that helps.  Sorry to hijack the thread a bit OP.  Your approach of using a money market account makes sense if you think you might need the money quickly.  The important thing is getting it out of your current account paying basically nothing.

Captain Cactus

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Re: Where y'all parking cash these days?
« Reply #28 on: December 03, 2022, 10:15:32 AM »
@dividendman - True.  The problem is you can't trade the T-bills if you buy directly from Treasury Direct.  You are stuck waiting until they mature, or you need to transfer it to a brokerage first to sell it.  I've heard it's a pain in the ass to do and takes a long time.  For short-term bills, maybe you're ok with potentially being locked up until maturity.  But buying at a brokerage gives you the ability to sell at any time and have the money to withdraw within days.  To me, that's worth it.  And as you said, I do think the interface is better.  I like Fidelity, but you could do Vanguard or Schwab or probably any other broker.

I believe at Treasury Direct you can buy in smaller increments which could be one advantage.  At brokerages, you need to buy at $1k intervals.  But probably not a real consideration for OP with $40k.

Thank you, very helpful!!!

Question about principal loss.  If you buy t bill at auction on Fidelity, Vanguard, etc… there is no loss in principal if you hold to maturity, is that accurate?  Meaning if you put your 2 month t bill on the auction again before maturity you’ll get what you anticipate for yield through maturity?

If you buy a t-bill at auction anywhere and hold until maturity, you will not lose principal and will earn the interest rate determined at the auction.  You do not know beforehand what the interest rate will be, but you can usually estimate based on what secondary bills are trading for.

T-bills are zero coupon.  So that means you buy at a price <$100 and get $100 back when they mature.  Take the recent 4 week t-bill which auctioned yesterday.  It's issued Dec 6 and matures Jan 3.  The price was 99.692778.  So the annualized rate is: ((100-99.692778)/99.692778) * (365/28) = 4.017%.  On Jan 3, you will get $100 back for every $99.692778 that you put into it.

If you were to sell this before it matures on Jan 3, you are not guaranteed to get a price above 99.692778 so you could lose principal.  Say the next 4 week t-bill auctioned for 20% interest rate.  No one will want your now 3 week t-bill paying 4%.  So you'd need to sell for a discount so a new investor would get something near the equivalent of the new 20% bill.  This would be a price of 98.862 to get an equivalent of 20% on a 3 week bill.

Obviously that's an extreme example.  If rates only rose from 4 to 5%, the price would be 99.713 so you wouldn't lose principal in this case, except maybe on the bid/ask spread.  But even that is highly unlikely to happen in one week.  It took most of this year of aggressive rate hikes to get from 0 to 4%.  So I think 4 week t-bills are pretty darn safe even if you need to sell early.  The longer the term, the more risk you take if you need liquidity, but also the higher rate you get.  I built myself a ladder with bills maturing every month or so.  I may need these for everyday expenses as I'm semi-retired and will be putting the majority of my part-time income into my Roth and HSA.  If I don't need the money as it matures, I'll buy another 6 month t-bill and keep the ladder rolling.

You say "put up for auction again" but I assume you mean selling the t-bill on the secondary market.  T-bills trade just like stocks.  You sell yours to a willing buyer.  There is no auction after the initial purchase.

Hope that helps.  Sorry to hijack the thread a bit OP.  Your approach of using a money market account makes sense if you think you might need the money quickly.  The important thing is getting it out of your current account paying basically nothing.

Ooops!  I messed up the quote thing...

Thank you very much for the insight.  I started up a t-bill ladder (4 week, 8 week, and 13 week... as they mature I'll roll back into 13 week bills).

Holocene

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Re: Where y'all parking cash these days?
« Reply #29 on: December 03, 2022, 08:52:48 PM »
Ooops!  I messed up the quote thing...

Thank you very much for the insight.  I started up a t-bill ladder (4 week, 8 week, and 13 week... as they mature I'll roll back into 13 week bills).

No problem.  I'm happy to help!  I've learned a lot about t-bills myself this year now that they've become an attractive option.  Glad to hear you got a t-bill ladder started.  I think this is one of the best places to park short-term cash right now.

Simpli-Fi

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Re: Where y'all parking cash these days?
« Reply #30 on: December 04, 2022, 09:08:33 AM »
Just been keeping the excess in my Vanguard Money Market settlement fund, ready for next year's IRA contributions.  I could do better, but at 3.69% currently, I could also do worse for highly liquid savings.
Same here…much quicker transactions to boot.

 

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