Where to travel when you can't walk or eat?

[mjdh1957]

How about Cyprus?

Mediterranean island with lots of history. Nicosia is interesting because it's divided between the Turkish and Greek parts of the island. There are amazing Roman and other historical sites and the cultural divide means that though it's a small island there is a lot of diversity.

And I found the food to be indifferent - I think the British influence there hasn't helped so the food offerings are nowhere near as good as the rest of the Mediterranean basin,

[Metalcat]

Have you considered Asia? Bangkok, Tokyo and Kuala Lumpur come to mind.

Bangkok is especially good if you can take the Metro/Skyrail, water taxi's, regular road taxi's can be tough with traffic. The amount of things to do/see with minimal walking is insane.

Depending on your tolerance for heat and sensitivity to air quality, it might be too hot/sticky.

We haven't been to Tokyo (yet, spending 3 weeks in Japan this April) but based on our research it looks to be super easy to get around by public transportation, with cleaner air than SE Asian options.........ditto for many of the Japanese cities for that matter.

It's the duration of flights to get there that really concerns me. If I were to travel that far, I would probably want to be there for more than 2 weeks to justify the toll it would take on my body to even get there.

Also, the food. I love Japanese food in particular.

That makes sense, and even as a healthy able bodies person I need more than two weeks to justify flights and jet lag of those proportions.

May I suggest Rome then? It blew our minds as a capital city and was quite traversable by tram, cab, bus etc. Some of the attractions require a little bit of walking but they might be accommodating to someone with your criteria. It's jard to go anywhere in Rome/Vatican city without stunning beauty between gardens, architecture and fountains/statues. The Roman forum and colosseum can occupy a day or two on their own. From Rome it's an easy train ride to many other cities that are fairly flat and accessible.

Rome and Florence were the original destinations, but with more focus on Florence and the exact reason why I started the thread. The whole reason we chose those cities was because even with my limited walking, it would just be so easy to noodle around, see cool things and eat amazing food.

[Metalcat]

That's so tricky because walking and eating are the main things I usually do on trips.

But I'll say split and Dubrovnik in Croatia were amazing cities architecturally and visually, and both are fairly small so very easy to get around with just short walks or taxi rides if you stay central, although also lots of cobblestones.

The food was good but pretty standard seaside fare, not internationally known kind of good. Hope you find a place that works!

Cobblestone isn't a problem. Dubrovnik is definitely a possibility as it's one of DH's other favourite cities from his European adventures back in the 90s. Although seafood is my very, very favourite and I just suffered a week-long ischemic attack thanks to a few ounces of cod...

[corgiegirl]

Your list of things you can eat looks like parts of a standard hotel breakfast buffet (white bread, sliced ham, scrambled eggs) in any German-influenced part of Europe. How about Belgium (Brussels/Antwerp)? Berlin? Munich outside of Oktoberfest?  Switzerland isn't perhaps renowed for great cities (or its cuisine) but there is a lot of culture there, the scenery is unmatched, and getting around is probably going to be easier for you than anywhere else in Europe.

[2Birds1Stone]

Have you considered Asia? Bangkok, Tokyo and Kuala Lumpur come to mind.

Bangkok is especially good if you can take the Metro/Skyrail, water taxi's, regular road taxi's can be tough with traffic. The amount of things to do/see with minimal walking is insane.

Depending on your tolerance for heat and sensitivity to air quality, it might be too hot/sticky.

We haven't been to Tokyo (yet, spending 3 weeks in Japan this April) but based on our research it looks to be super easy to get around by public transportation, with cleaner air than SE Asian options.........ditto for many of the Japanese cities for that matter.

It's the duration of flights to get there that really concerns me. If I were to travel that far, I would probably want to be there for more than 2 weeks to justify the toll it would take on my body to even get there.

Also, the food. I love Japanese food in particular.

That makes sense, and even as a healthy able bodies person I need more than two weeks to justify flights and jet lag of those proportions.

May I suggest Rome then? It blew our minds as a capital city and was quite traversable by tram, cab, bus etc. Some of the attractions require a little bit of walking but they might be accommodating to someone with your criteria. It's jard to go anywhere in Rome/Vatican city without stunning beauty between gardens, architecture and fountains/statues. The Roman forum and colosseum can occupy a day or two on their own. From Rome it's an easy train ride to many other cities that are fairly flat and accessible.

Rome and Florence were the original destinations, but with more focus on Florence and the exact reason why I started the thread. The whole reason we chose those cities was because even with my limited walking, it would just be so easy to noodle around, see cool things and eat amazing food.

Well, the bad good news is that out of all the places we visted in our 6 weeks in Italy last summer, Rome had by far the worst food.......but the most amount of "amazing sights/culture" pretty much anywhere we've been (Italy or not).........so it should fit your criteria quite well.

Florence is great for a couple of days, but you can easily spend 10-14 days in Rome and not get bored or see the same thing twice.

[Metalcat]

Sorry if this is not appropriate.
Why travel in these circumstances. If I was in your shoes and I know I will be uncomfortable in foreign place and have many limitations I would think hard before going around the world.

That said, I think cruise trip might be a good option to consider.

[Note that the following is said with zero defensiveness or hostility, I get these kinds of questions all the time, and I'm a healthcare professional who primarily works with people with severe chronic health issues, so I'm very used to addressing this.]

Lol, NO it is not an appropriate question to ask a severely disabled person why they are bothering trying to live a full and interesting life.

But I do completely understand why you are asking, I would just take this as a teachable moment to learn how to engage with a disabled person when you are curious about their lifestyle choices.

The ableist problem with your statement is that you say "if I was in your shoes," but you cannot fathom what it's like to be in my shoes.

You're absolutely right, it's incredibly difficult to take trips with my extremely limiting combination of problems, and I've only mentioned 2, there are several more, they're just not relevant to destination choice, so I haven't mentioned them. Like, the 24/7 migraine will be here no matter where I am and no matter what the roads and food are like.

So, no, I don't take many trips to foreign countries, which is why I haven't seen much of the world because by the time I worked enough to be able to afford travel, my body fell apart, then the pandemic happened, then my body fell apart more, then I had multiple surgeries on unpredictable schedules, and I went back to school, and life just has never made international travel possible for me, despite the fact that I've ALWAYS wanted to travel.

So now, after growing up poor, after working myself to death in university for 11 years, then working my ass off to pay off massive student debt and being self-employed so I really couldn't afford much time off, then losing my career to disability, then retraining for a whole new career, I'm FINALLY, in my fucking 40s able to just choose to take time and take a trip if I want to.

And it happens to be our 10 year anniversary, and we've spent 10 years delaying the big European honeymoon that we never got to take. We did a road trip and rented a cottage instead because I was too exhausted working long hours at the time to handle long haul travel.

AND we now have thousands of dollars in points that are really wasted if we try and cash them out on anything other than travel.

AND the world is a massive place filled with countless amazing destinations, which is why I'm asking a huge group of well traveled people what destination might best suit me to accommodate my particular limitations and preferences, because I refuse to believe that there isn't somewhere that is worth traveling to.

Because I don't define myself by what I can't do, I just accommodate what I can. And that is what I mean when I say that you have no idea what it's like to live in my shoes. Everyone has limitations and we all have to accomodate them, my limitations just happen to be physical.

But it's my job to be creative about the best way to maximize my life experience with the capacities I do have. Which is a lot like living a frugal life. To be frugal, we all have to do a lot more research about options and think more creatively beyond what everyone else does. Living disabled is exactly the same thing.

I actually adventure travel much more than the average person, contrary to what my earlier paragraphs in this post imply. I just don't take a lot of international vacations. But I've worked with my capacities and resources to build quite a life of travel adventure.

I've mentioned multiple times that I don't really feel like prioritizing ocean and nature because that's where I live. Well, I live here because I wanted travel adventure and this was the most accommodating way to do so.

Where I am is an international bucket-list destination that people wait their entire lives to explore because it's best to spend at least a month here. I have a friend who comes every year for 2-3 weeks, and her list of places to explore is still massive. It will be years before she's at a point where she runs out of "must see" places on this island.

It had always been my dream to travel here, but when I lost my ability to walk and found out that I needed multiple surgeries with years long recovery timelines, investing in a months-long trip didn't feel like a great value with how incredibly limited I was.

But buying a house here so that I would have an absolutely mild-melting place to recover sure sounded like a nice plan. And because we have a home base here, even if I'm in rough shape, it's not some huge investment to take a long weekend trip to places that before I would have to fly to get to.

We still have our mainland home, which is about 1500 mi away, so we also explore tons of Canada between the two locations each time we do the drive back and forth. So we actually travel a TON and see so much of the country that most people will never see.

We're very avid explorers.

And that's enough for us 90% of the time. But it's been a decade that we've been wanting to take a trip off the continent. And now we have all these points, and I FINALLY have the time and ability to do so.

So no, I'm not going to let the fact that it's very inconvenient stop me. I won't generally choose to take trips, and I probably wouldn't if I didn't have the points to do so, but I simply refuse to believe that there's nowhere worth going for a few weeks.

That said, I can't see us taking many 2-3 week, expensive, long haul flight vacations, because they really aren't a great value for me with my limitations. So as I mentioned in a previous post, the goal is to repeat what we did here. Once DH retires, we plan to move to Europe and have a home base from which travel around Europe will be much, much easier.

Since we absolutely love travel and exploring, and by that point, we'll pretty much have exhausted this chunk of north America for new and exciting places to go, we'll be looking for another home base to explore around.

In summary, I completely understand your question, but no, it is not at all appropriate to suggest that it's not worth it for a disabled person to put in the effort it takes to live a full life despite their limitations.

I fully encourage you to be curious about why a disabled person makes the choices they do, especially if they don't seem to make sense from your personal perspective. But have the humility to understand that your perspective isn't relevant to mine. We live completely different realities.

You absolutely do not know what it's like to live in my shoes, to put in astronomical effort to not let my life feel like it's getting smaller with every physical ability I lose. I absolutely refuse to live a less adventurous life than I've always wanted, and the world is such a rich and diverse place that I will always assume that there's a place for me in it.

In fact, because I've lost so much function and ability to enjoy a lot of what other people can enjoy in the world, that makes it so much more important to expand my experiences in terms of things can bring me joy. So the more disabled I become, the more adventure travel becomes critical for me to feel like my life is full and rich, because I can't enjoy what's on offer locally as much as I used to be able to.

I literally spend my days helping chronically ill people think more expansively about life and not just curl into themselves focusing on what they can no longer do because they're drowning in the ableism that they had when they were able-bodied. They need to completely alter their sense of self and place in the world.

Again, it's just like frugality. The default of the spendy consumerist is to believe that you need to spend more to enjoy life more, and that spending less means a life of self-deprivation, but that's not true. It's the same with disability. The able-bodied person believes that losing physical ability fundamentally makes life worse, but it doesn't, it just means you have to be more creative about how to make life better with the resources you have.

My life has actually been filled with much more travel adventure since I became severely disabled because I prioritize it more and I've engineered my entire life around being able to. Hell, my dog has seen more UNESCO sites in the past few years than many people will in their lifetime.

Thank you for attending my Ted Talk on being curious about people with physical limitations

[Metalcat]

Have you considered Asia? Bangkok, Tokyo and Kuala Lumpur come to mind.

Bangkok is especially good if you can take the Metro/Skyrail, water taxi's, regular road taxi's can be tough with traffic. The amount of things to do/see with minimal walking is insane.

Depending on your tolerance for heat and sensitivity to air quality, it might be too hot/sticky.

We haven't been to Tokyo (yet, spending 3 weeks in Japan this April) but based on our research it looks to be super easy to get around by public transportation, with cleaner air than SE Asian options.........ditto for many of the Japanese cities for that matter.

It's the duration of flights to get there that really concerns me. If I were to travel that far, I would probably want to be there for more than 2 weeks to justify the toll it would take on my body to even get there.

Also, the food. I love Japanese food in particular.

That makes sense, and even as a healthy able bodies person I need more than two weeks to justify flights and jet lag of those proportions.

May I suggest Rome then? It blew our minds as a capital city and was quite traversable by tram, cab, bus etc. Some of the attractions require a little bit of walking but they might be accommodating to someone with your criteria. It's jard to go anywhere in Rome/Vatican city without stunning beauty between gardens, architecture and fountains/statues. The Roman forum and colosseum can occupy a day or two on their own. From Rome it's an easy train ride to many other cities that are fairly flat and accessible.

Rome and Florence were the original destinations, but with more focus on Florence and the exact reason why I started the thread. The whole reason we chose those cities was because even with my limited walking, it would just be so easy to noodle around, see cool things and eat amazing food.

Well, the bad good news is that out of all the places we visted in our 6 weeks in Italy last summer, Rome had by far the worst food.......but the most amount of "amazing sights/culture" pretty much anywhere we've been (Italy or not).........so it should fit your criteria quite well.

Florence is great for a couple of days, but you can easily spend 10-14 days in Rome and not get bored or see the same thing twice.

That's VERY good to know. Thank you!

Rome might be back on the table then...

That said, anywhere that a typical person would probably enjoy for "a few days" is probably what I can handle for a week or two. Plus I actually enjoy repeating things a few times in one location, so I don't need a TON of things to do, just enough that at least a few are really cool.

[Metalcat]

Your list of things you can eat looks like parts of a standard hotel breakfast buffet (white bread, sliced ham, scrambled eggs) in any German-influenced part of Europe. How about Belgium (Brussels/Antwerp)? Berlin? Munich outside of Oktoberfest?  Switzerland isn't perhaps renowed for great cities (or its cuisine) but there is a lot of culture there, the scenery is unmatched, and getting around is probably going to be easier for you than anywhere else in Europe.

It's funny, we almost moved to Brussels a few decades ago, it's definitely a possibility. I hadn't really considered Switzerland though...

[2Birds1Stone]

Have you considered Asia? Bangkok, Tokyo and Kuala Lumpur come to mind.

Bangkok is especially good if you can take the Metro/Skyrail, water taxi's, regular road taxi's can be tough with traffic. The amount of things to do/see with minimal walking is insane.

Depending on your tolerance for heat and sensitivity to air quality, it might be too hot/sticky.

We haven't been to Tokyo (yet, spending 3 weeks in Japan this April) but based on our research it looks to be super easy to get around by public transportation, with cleaner air than SE Asian options.........ditto for many of the Japanese cities for that matter.

It's the duration of flights to get there that really concerns me. If I were to travel that far, I would probably want to be there for more than 2 weeks to justify the toll it would take on my body to even get there.

Also, the food. I love Japanese food in particular.

That makes sense, and even as a healthy able bodies person I need more than two weeks to justify flights and jet lag of those proportions.

May I suggest Rome then? It blew our minds as a capital city and was quite traversable by tram, cab, bus etc. Some of the attractions require a little bit of walking but they might be accommodating to someone with your criteria. It's jard to go anywhere in Rome/Vatican city without stunning beauty between gardens, architecture and fountains/statues. The Roman forum and colosseum can occupy a day or two on their own. From Rome it's an easy train ride to many other cities that are fairly flat and accessible.

Rome and Florence were the original destinations, but with more focus on Florence and the exact reason why I started the thread. The whole reason we chose those cities was because even with my limited walking, it would just be so easy to noodle around, see cool things and eat amazing food.

Well, the bad good news is that out of all the places we visted in our 6 weeks in Italy last summer, Rome had by far the worst food.......but the most amount of "amazing sights/culture" pretty much anywhere we've been (Italy or not).........so it should fit your criteria quite well.

Florence is great for a couple of days, but you can easily spend 10-14 days in Rome and not get bored or see the same thing twice.

That's VERY good to know. Thank you!

Rome might be back on the table then...

That said, anywhere that a typical person would probably enjoy for "a few days" is probably what I can handle for a week or two. Plus I actually enjoy repeating things a few times in one location, so I don't need a TON of things to do, just enough that at least a few are really cool.

If you do end up making it there, I recommend spending a day exploring the Vatican museums. We saw folks with walkers/wheelchairs in some of the tours and they seemed to really enjoy it. I'm not a religious person (and typically not much of a museum person) but the art blew DW and I away (it's how we spent her Bday last year).

We were in the Roman Forum with friends who had their toddler with a stroller and it wasn't too difficult to get around either, and wow, what a special place.

Anyway, good luck picking a destination! I don't think you'll have too much trouble once you cross some options off your list. I'm sure others will chime in with many other great options.

[Metalcat]

That's VERY good to know. Thank you!

Rome might be back on the table then...

That said, anywhere that a typical person would probably enjoy for "a few days" is probably what I can handle for a week or two. Plus I actually enjoy repeating things a few times in one location, so I don't need a TON of things to do, just enough that at least a few are really cool.

If you do end up making it there, I recommend spending a day exploring the Vatican museums. We saw folks with walkers/wheelchairs in some of the tours and they seemed to really enjoy it. I'm not a religious person (and typically not much of a museum person) but the art blew DW and I away (it's how we spent her Bday last year).

We were in the Roman Forum with friends who had their toddler with a stroller and it wasn't too difficult to get around either, and wow, what a special place.

Anyway, good luck picking a destination! I don't think you'll have too much trouble once you cross some options off your list. I'm sure others will chime in with many other great options.

DH would really like to go back to Italy, but I ruled it out because of how everyone raves about the food in Italy, but if it's overrated in Rome, then that's a GREAT option.

Rome really hits the nail on the head of the kind of place that would be good for me.

Any suggestions where to stay in an area that would be nice to walk around? When I look at hotels there, there are just SO MANY. Also, when would be the best time to go when it wouldn't be too crowded? I've heard it can be insanely busy.

[2Birds1Stone]

That's VERY good to know. Thank you!

Rome might be back on the table then...

That said, anywhere that a typical person would probably enjoy for "a few days" is probably what I can handle for a week or two. Plus I actually enjoy repeating things a few times in one location, so I don't need a TON of things to do, just enough that at least a few are really cool.

If you do end up making it there, I recommend spending a day exploring the Vatican museums. We saw folks with walkers/wheelchairs in some of the tours and they seemed to really enjoy it. I'm not a religious person (and typically not much of a museum person) but the art blew DW and I away (it's how we spent her Bday last year).

We were in the Roman Forum with friends who had their toddler with a stroller and it wasn't too difficult to get around either, and wow, what a special place.

Anyway, good luck picking a destination! I don't think you'll have too much trouble once you cross some options off your list. I'm sure others will chime in with many other great options.

DH would really like to go back to Italy, but I ruled it out because of how everyone raves about the food in Italy, but if it's overrated in Rome, then that's a GREAT option.

Rome really hits the nail on the head of the kind of place that would be good for me.

Any suggestions where to stay in an area that would be nice to walk around? When I look at hotels there, there are just SO MANY. Also, when would be the best time to go when it wouldn't be too crowded? I've heard it can be insanely busy.

I'll get back to you on areas to stay! But as far as time of year, it's hard to beat early/mid April or early May (before the bustling tourist season). We ended up there during a crazy busy time (Labor Day AND Independence Day week) at the end of April......but the weather is typically REALLY good that time of year but the crazy summer tourism season hasn't started yet. Just try to avoid that crazy holiday time.

We spent 5 whole days there, and it wasn't enough time.......and I thought we booked too long for a capital city.

[Metalcat]

I'll get back to you on areas to stay! But as far as time of year, it's hard to beat early/mid April or early May (before the bustling tourist season). We ended up there during a crazy busy time (Labor Day AND Independence Day week) at the end of April......but the weather is typically REALLY good that time of year but the crazy summer tourism season hasn't started yet. Just try to avoid that crazy holiday time.

We spent 5 whole days there, and it wasn't enough time.......and I thought we booked too long for a capital city.

We would be looking at early May probably, so that sounds promising.

[GilesMM]

European river cruise? Lots of stops, presumably adaptive on-board dietary options for your needs, get off and walk the city or not as you feel up to it.

Netherlands: when I watch "Not Just Bikes" I see tiny cars on the bike paths. Also Vespa style scooters. I don't know the rules or if that would be helpful to you.

A cruise seems like the best option if OP can manage food restrictions by rolling a cooler on board or working with the mess staff.

[Spiffy]

We love Rome and go as often as we can. My husband is a classicist and used to lead our university study abroad program in Italy. Rome is ALWAYS crowded, I don't think there is an off season anymore, but Christmastime is my favorite time to be there. And this year is a jubilee year, so many pilgrims will be there. But don't let that stop you. My advice is to stay away from the top tourist sites. Do not go to the Vatican Museum unless there is something specific that you have always wanted to see. Instead, go to Galleria Doria Pamphilj. You will see amazing (and recognizably famous) art in this beautiful palazzo and have it mostly to yourself. Do not go to the most famous churches with metal detectors to pass through and lines to wait in. Instead go into any open church door. You will be amazed at what is waiting behind them. Do not rush through a list of sites to see. Rest during the day (especially when it is hot) and stroll as you are able during the evening, stopping for aperitivo at any likely looking place. If you can have ham, bread and fizzy water, you can find that everywhere. Then sit and watch the world go by. Rome is a perfect place to just wander. We like to stay in the Borgo or Prati. Most people will say stay in Trastevere, which is charming, but not served well by the metro. But if you are OK paying for taxis (the official white ones only!) then stay anywhere you like.

[Villanelle]

I agree that the food in Rome--even when we worked to avoid the tourist-trap restaurants, was not a highlight at all.  We went at American Thanksgiving (late Nov) and while it was far from deserted, it wasn't crowded.  We didn't have reservations at the Coliseum and managed to walk right in. I would think that early ay might be similar since both are probably shoulder season.   I think if you book a guided tour at the Coliseum, you get an timed entry, but I found the inside to be "meh" and in my memory it doesn't strike me as a very disability-friendly site so I would think you could skip going in, save your body, and not miss much.

A highlight for me was the Borghese Gallery, which does require a timed reservation. You get a 2 hour window in the museum and I could have spent most of that time just staring at their 2 Berninis.  We walked there and it was a haul, but IIRC, we took a cab leaving. I think it was 2 stories. 

I also think a European River cruise (or even a non-River cruise), as mentioned by others, might be worth considering.  I haven't done a River cruise, but we did several cruises when we lived in Europe.  They were a great way to see a little bit of a lot of places.  If you need a break, you could stay on board.  I think River cruises have shorter days, but ocean cruises usually have 1-2 sea days where you could rest and recover a bit.  I don't consider myself a cruise person, but as a floating hotel that allows you to wake up in a different city every day, I thought they were great.  We just skipped the ship Bingo trivia and all that kind of stuff.  And you could at at the buffet which should be able to provide some of the foods on your list. 

[Metalcat]

European river cruise? Lots of stops, presumably adaptive on-board dietary options for your needs, get off and walk the city or not as you feel up to it.

Netherlands: when I watch "Not Just Bikes" I see tiny cars on the bike paths. Also Vespa style scooters. I don't know the rules or if that would be helpful to you.

A cruise seems like the best option if OP can manage food restrictions by rolling a cooler on board or working with the mess staff.

I have little to no interest in a cruise, I'm also not quite understanding why people keep saying it would be best. Can you please explain??

I've also said multiple times that I don't do well standing on moving vehicles.

[Metalcat]

We love Rome and go as often as we can. My husband is a classicist and used to lead our university study abroad program in Italy. Rome is ALWAYS crowded, I don't think there is an off season anymore, but Christmastime is my favorite time to be there. And this year is a jubilee year, so many pilgrims will be there. But don't let that stop you. My advice is to stay away from the top tourist sites. Do not go to the Vatican Museum unless there is something specific that you have always wanted to see. Instead, go to Galleria Doria Pamphilj. You will see amazing (and recognizably famous) art in this beautiful palazzo and have it mostly to yourself. Do not go to the most famous churches with metal detectors to pass through and lines to wait in. Instead go into any open church door. You will be amazed at what is waiting behind them. Do not rush through a list of sites to see. Rest during the day (especially when it is hot) and stroll as you are able during the evening, stopping for aperitivo at any likely looking place. If you can have ham, bread and fizzy water, you can find that everywhere. Then sit and watch the world go by. Rome is a perfect place to just wander. We like to stay in the Borgo or Prati. Most people will say stay in Trastevere, which is charming, but not served well by the metro. But if you are OK paying for taxis (the official white ones only!) then stay anywhere you like.

While I appreciate the sentiment, I really cannot overstate how little I can safely eat. I can't eat bread and ham, I can eat white wonderbread-type ultra processed sandwich bread and some deli meats if they are soft enough.

I've never been to a restaurant on earth that serves the kind of bread I can eat, and I would not be able to assume that just because they serve ham that it will be the right consistency.

This is why Rome is interesting if the food isn't amazing, because we can build the entire trip around things other than eating at restaurants. There's just too much risk of me ordering anything and then not being able to eat it.

I ordered tomato soup at a coffee shop recently and paid dearly for the fact that it had a bit of very well cooked onion and celery in it. That was before I knew what was safe and what wasn't, but if I was served that at a restaurant now, I would have to refuse to eat it. And I'm not used to that experience enough yet to want to take that risk. It's very upsetting when it happens.

I'm also only *just* starting to be able to tolerate being in grocery stores, so I really don't want to torture myself. I don't want to pick a place where some restaurants may have the kind of absolute shit food that I don't want to be eating, which just *might* be tolerable for me and not send me into a crisis while on vacation.

I just don't want to think much about food at all. I'll bring a fuck ton of ensure with me, hopefully try to find a hotel room with a kitchenette if possible, and stick to my safe foods from grocery stores for the duration. DH can go out for meals whenever I'm having rest times at the hotel.

I want this trip to be about focusing on what I CAN enjoy, not rubbing in my own face what I can't.

[reeshau]

Your list of things you can eat looks like parts of a standard hotel breakfast buffet (white bread, sliced ham, scrambled eggs) in any German-influenced part of Europe. How about Belgium (Brussels/Antwerp)? Berlin? Munich outside of Oktoberfest?  Switzerland isn't perhaps renowed for great cities (or its cuisine) but there is a lot of culture there, the scenery is unmatched, and getting around is probably going to be easier for you than anywhere else in Europe.

It's funny, we almost moved to Brussels a few decades ago, it's definitely a possibility. I hadn't really considered Switzerland though...

My favorite place in the world is the Lauterbrunnen valley, near Interlaken.  The inspiration for Rivendell.  We stay up in the mountains to avoid the worst of the crowds: when they are in an hour-long line for the gondola up for the day, we have the car nearly to ourselves on the way down, having finished breakfast.

There is a lot of up and down.  We love Murren as small enough to scare touristy tourists away.  Wengen is more "civilized," but both have a small grocery and a number of restaurants.  We absolutely adore going there in September, in shoulder season.  It's nice walking weather to me--cool enough not to sweat.  But we have also been there on Swiss National Day (August 1) and enjoyed a modest celebration and fireworks with the residents at the community center.

[Metalcat]

Your list of things you can eat looks like parts of a standard hotel breakfast buffet (white bread, sliced ham, scrambled eggs) in any German-influenced part of Europe. How about Belgium (Brussels/Antwerp)? Berlin? Munich outside of Oktoberfest?  Switzerland isn't perhaps renowed for great cities (or its cuisine) but there is a lot of culture there, the scenery is unmatched, and getting around is probably going to be easier for you than anywhere else in Europe.

It's funny, we almost moved to Brussels a few decades ago, it's definitely a possibility. I hadn't really considered Switzerland though...

My favorite place in the world is the Lauterbrunnen valley, near Interlaken.  The inspiration for Rivendell.  We stay up in the mountains to avoid the worst of the crowds: when they are in an hour-long line for the gondola up for the day, we have the car nearly to ourselves on the way down, having finished breakfast.

There is a lot of up and down.  We love Murren as small enough to scare touristy tourists away.  Wengen is more "civilized," but both have a small grocery and a number of restaurants.  We absolutely adore going there in September, in shoulder season.  It's nice walking weather to me--cool enough not to sweat.  But we have also been there on Swiss National Day (August 1) and enjoyed a modest celebration and fireworks with the residents at the community center.

Oh, this does sound nice...and our anniversary is October, so September would be great...

Except, I think we're planning to be in Newfoundland in September and flying out of there is stupid. It's so much easier to fly out of our city location.

Hmm...logistics...

[Poeirenta]

I hesitate to suggest Portugal because accessibility is not really thought about much here, and many cities are quite steep, but if you do ok in a passenger car then you could explore several different cities in Portugal in a shorter total distance than driving from Toronto to Newfoundland. Assuming DH doesn't mind driving, of course. Quite a few flights from YYZ to LIS.

As for food, I like it but it's pretty basic. The famous Porto sandwich, the francesinha, is made with the fluffy white wonder bread type stuff, so you could at least find that here.

 

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

[Metalcat]

I hesitate to suggest Portugal because accessibility is not really thought about much here, and many cities are quite steep, but if you do ok in a passenger car then you could explore several different cities in Portugal in a shorter total distance than driving from Toronto to Newfoundland. Assuming DH doesn't mind driving, of course. Quite a few flights from YYZ to LIS.

As for food, I like it but it's pretty basic. The famous Porto sandwich, the francesinha, is made with the fluffy white wonder bread type stuff, so you could at least find that here.

 

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

I googled it and I would definitely not be able to eat that. I can eat un-toasted wonderbread and some extremely soft deli meats. I absolutely cannot eat a slab of meat on toasted bread.

My diet restrictions are understandably difficult to understand.
, and it isn't my purpose in this thread to have them understood. It's taken me over a month to even begin to wrap my mind around it and I easily get it wrong and the consequences are pretty fucking horrible and will take me out for an entire week if I even take a few bites of something that seems okay but isn't.

So I will not be taking risks while traveling. I'll live on packaged, ultra processed foods that I know are safe, and possibly scrambled eggs or mashed potatoes if I can get them.

I'm really not looking for recommendations of places where I can probably eat the food. I'm really just looking for places where there are awesome things to do and where missing out on the local food wouldn't be heartbreaking.

[Cassie]

I’ve been to Rome twice and it’s amazing with so much to see and do. I’m surprised that the food is no longer good. When I was there it was amazing but it’s been a very long time ago.

[corgiegirl]

I’ve been to Rome twice and it’s amazing with so much to see and do. I’m surprised that the food is no longer good. When I was there it was amazing but it’s been a very long time ago.

Anywhere there are a lot of tourists passing through the easily obtainable food will be "tourist quality" and anything else needs to be specifically sought out.

[deborah]

There are only two places I’ve been that meet your bad food requirements. I haven’t responded before because none of the places I’ve been are large cities. However, since everyone else isn’t following your guidelines, maybe there isn’t anything available that meets them.

One is Greenland, but it’s probably too much like where you live. However, you may be interested in seeing where all your icebergs come from, just how big they are when they go out to sea, and how much smaller they are when they reach your area. I certainly found it an amazing place, different enough from where you live to be worth visiting. The towns are tiny, so all the walks you can do are fairly short (the longest road is 19kms), but they’re mostly unpaved. People walk around the towns mostly, so the walking infrastructure is pretty good. I caught the ferry up the coast, and stayed in places for a few days. At Ilulissat, I hired a serviced accommodation, and spent hours, like you, watching the absolutely enormous icebergs. This accommodation allowed me to make my own food and avoid the terrible stuff I’d been getting otherwise.

The other was Labrador. I caught the ferry up the coast from Happy Valley-Goose Bay and back, and visited a lot of Inuit towns along the coast. It was similar to Greenland, but Greenland had much more, including the ice sheet and glaciers and Viking ruins.

I was going to mention small expedition cruises, since a couple of the ones I’ve been on have been absolutely fanatical about cooking people precisely what their diet says they need. These usually cater for the elderly who can be on very restricted diets, and who really want to visit places despite their diet and occasionally limited mobility. I was very impressed when I toured the Kimberley with one of these (coral expeditions), and we visited a rock cave of aboriginal paintings. There was a young woman onboard who walked with callipers and had a very twisted body, so she had a lot of difficulty getting around. One of the staff was determined that she could get up to the paintings, and encouraged her the whole way because she wanted to see the artwork. Going on a river cruise or around the remote islands of the Philippines, Papua New Guinea or Indonesia with one of these types of cruises would give you a diverse experience that may not have been on your radar. However, a big problem with cruises or ferries for you is probably that they limit their time anywhere, and you might need longer.

[reeshau]

Lauterbrunnen is both the region and the village on the valley floor.  Murren and Wengen are at elevation: Murren to the right in this picture, and Wengen to the left.

I should point out that both Murren and Wengen are car free.  Having said that, they do have small natural gas-powered vehicles for deliveries, and there may be a limited taxi service.  The public bus does run up to the villages, but it is a long route.  You also can (or used to) be able to hitch a ride with the postal service.

[Metalcat]

There are only two places I’ve been that meet your bad food requirements. I haven’t responded before because none of the places I’ve been are large cities. However, since everyone else isn’t following your guidelines, maybe there isn’t anything available that meets them.

One is Greenland, but it’s probably too much like where you live. However, you may be interested in seeing where all your icebergs come from, just how big they are when they go out to sea, and how much smaller they are when they reach your area. I certainly found it an amazing place, different enough from where you live to be worth visiting. The towns are tiny, so all the walks you can do are fairly short (the longest road is 19kms), but they’re mostly unpaved. People walk around the towns mostly, so the walking infrastructure is pretty good. I caught the ferry up the coast, and stayed in places for a few days. At Ilulissat, I hired a serviced accommodation, and spent hours, like you, watching the absolutely enormous icebergs. This accommodation allowed me to make my own food and avoid the terrible stuff I’d been getting otherwise.

The other was Labrador. I caught the ferry up the coast from Happy Valley-Goose Bay and back, and visited a lot of Inuit towns along the coast. It was similar to Greenland, but Greenland had much more, including the ice sheet and glaciers and Viking ruins.

I was going to mention small expedition cruises, since a couple of the ones I’ve been on have been absolutely fanatical about cooking people precisely what their diet says they need. These usually cater for the elderly who can be on very restricted diets, and who really want to visit places despite their diet and occasionally limited mobility. I was very impressed when I toured the Kimberley with one of these (coral expeditions), and we visited a rock cave of aboriginal paintings. There was a young woman onboard who walked with callipers and had a very twisted body, so she had a lot of difficulty getting around. One of the staff was determined that she could get up to the paintings, and encouraged her the whole way because she wanted to see the artwork. Going on a river cruise or around the remote islands of the Philippines, Papua New Guinea or Indonesia with one of these types of cruises would give you a diverse experience that may not have been on your radar. However, a big problem with cruises or ferries for you is probably that they limit their time anywhere, and you might need longer.

Yeah, not a huge draw to Greenland, and we definitely don't want to go to Labrador for this trip because that would mean literally staying in the exact same province we already live in.

We can drive to Labrador, and while it would be a long drive and a ferry, still not exactly the big, exciting, new experiences adventure we're looking for.

But I very much appreciate you thinking outside the box.

As for a cruise, I'm just really not interested in being on a boat. We have to take a small cruise sized boat to and from Newfoundland and my leg does not do well on it. I'm counting down the hours until I can get back onto firm land when I'm on the boat, and it's a good size.

Also, I think you hit on a major issue with cruises for me, I cannot be on a schedule. My body is totally unpredictable and I have no option to "push through" when it acts up. So I have less than zero interest in a trip with a strict itinerary where I'm almost guaranteed to experience FOMO when I invariably have to miss out on some ports and activities.

I need to be able to go do things when I feel like doing them.

I also have exactly zero interest in large boat cruises. Not my thing at all.

[GuitarStv]

Sorry if this is not appropriate.
Why travel in these circumstances. If I was in your shoes and I know I will be uncomfortable in foreign place and have many limitations I would think hard before going around the world.

That said, I think cruise trip might be a good option to consider.

[Note that the following is said with zero defensiveness or hostility, I get these kinds of questions all the time, and I'm a healthcare professional who primarily works with people with severe chronic health issues, so I'm very used to addressing this.]

Lol, NO it is not an appropriate question to ask a severely disabled person why they are bothering trying to live a full and interesting life.

But I do completely understand why you are asking, I would just take this as a teachable moment to learn how to engage with a disabled person when you are curious about their lifestyle choices.

The ableist problem with your statement is that you say "if I was in your shoes," but you cannot fathom what it's like to be in my shoes.

You're absolutely right, it's incredibly difficult to take trips with my extremely limiting combination of problems, and I've only mentioned 2, there are several more, they're just not relevant to destination choice, so I haven't mentioned them. Like, the 24/7 migraine will be here no matter where I am and no matter what the roads and food are like.

So, no, I don't take many trips to foreign countries, which is why I haven't seen much of the world because by the time I worked enough to be able to afford travel, my body fell apart, then the pandemic happened, then my body fell apart more, then I had multiple surgeries on unpredictable schedules, and I went back to school, and life just has never made international travel possible for me, despite the fact that I've ALWAYS wanted to travel.

So now, after growing up poor, after working myself to death in university for 11 years, then working my ass off to pay off massive student debt and being self-employed so I really couldn't afford much time off, then losing my career to disability, then retraining for a whole new career, I'm FINALLY, in my fucking 40s able to just choose to take time and take a trip if I want to.

And it happens to be our 10 year anniversary, and we've spent 10 years delaying the big European honeymoon that we never got to take. We did a road trip and rented a cottage instead because I was too exhausted working long hours at the time to handle long haul travel.

AND we now have thousands of dollars in points that are really wasted if we try and cash them out on anything other than travel.

AND the world is a massive place filled with countless amazing destinations, which is why I'm asking a huge group of well traveled people what destination might best suit me to accommodate my particular limitations and preferences, because I refuse to believe that there isn't somewhere that is worth traveling to.

Because I don't define myself by what I can't do, I just accommodate what I can. And that is what I mean when I say that you have no idea what it's like to live in my shoes. Everyone has limitations and we all have to accomodate them, my limitations just happen to be physical.

But it's my job to be creative about the best way to maximize my life experience with the capacities I do have. Which is a lot like living a frugal life. To be frugal, we all have to do a lot more research about options and think more creatively beyond what everyone else does. Living disabled is exactly the same thing.

I actually adventure travel much more than the average person, contrary to what my earlier paragraphs in this post imply. I just don't take a lot of international vacations. But I've worked with my capacities and resources to build quite a life of travel adventure.

I've mentioned multiple times that I don't really feel like prioritizing ocean and nature because that's where I live. Well, I live here because I wanted travel adventure and this was the most accommodating way to do so.

Where I am is an international bucket-list destination that people wait their entire lives to explore because it's best to spend at least a month here. I have a friend who comes every year for 2-3 weeks, and her list of places to explore is still massive. It will be years before she's at a point where she runs out of "must see" places on this island.

It had always been my dream to travel here, but when I lost my ability to walk and found out that I needed multiple surgeries with years long recovery timelines, investing in a months-long trip didn't feel like a great value with how incredibly limited I was.

But buying a house here so that I would have an absolutely mild-melting place to recover sure sounded like a nice plan. And because we have a home base here, even if I'm in rough shape, it's not some huge investment to take a long weekend trip to places that before I would have to fly to get to.

We still have our mainland home, which is about 1500 mi away, so we also explore tons of Canada between the two locations each time we do the drive back and forth. So we actually travel a TON and see so much of the country that most people will never see.

We're very avid explorers.

And that's enough for us 90% of the time. But it's been a decade that we've been wanting to take a trip off the continent. And now we have all these points, and I FINALLY have the time and ability to do so.

So no, I'm not going to let the fact that it's very inconvenient stop me. I won't generally choose to take trips, and I probably wouldn't if I didn't have the points to do so, but I simply refuse to believe that there's nowhere worth going for a few weeks.

That said, I can't see us taking many 2-3 week, expensive, long haul flight vacations, because they really aren't a great value for me with my limitations. So as I mentioned in a previous post, the goal is to repeat what we did here. Once DH retires, we plan to move to Europe and have a home base from which travel around Europe will be much, much easier.

Since we absolutely love travel and exploring, and by that point, we'll pretty much have exhausted this chunk of north America for new and exciting places to go, we'll be looking for another home base to explore around.

In summary, I completely understand your question, but no, it is not at all appropriate to suggest that it's not worth it for a disabled person to put in the effort it takes to live a full life despite their limitations.

I fully encourage you to be curious about why a disabled person makes the choices they do, especially if they don't seem to make sense from your personal perspective. But have the humility to understand that your perspective isn't relevant to mine. We live completely different realities.

You absolutely do not know what it's like to live in my shoes, to put in astronomical effort to not let my life feel like it's getting smaller with every physical ability I lose. I absolutely refuse to live a less adventurous life than I've always wanted, and the world is such a rich and diverse place that I will always assume that there's a place for me in it.

In fact, because I've lost so much function and ability to enjoy a lot of what other people can enjoy in the world, that makes it so much more important to expand my experiences in terms of things can bring me joy. So the more disabled I become, the more adventure travel becomes critical for me to feel like my life is full and rich, because I can't enjoy what's on offer locally as much as I used to be able to.

I literally spend my days helping chronically ill people think more expansively about life and not just curl into themselves focusing on what they can no longer do because they're drowning in the ableism that they had when they were able-bodied. They need to completely alter their sense of self and place in the world.

Again, it's just like frugality. The default of the spendy consumerist is to believe that you need to spend more to enjoy life more, and that spending less means a life of self-deprivation, but that's not true. It's the same with disability. The able-bodied person believes that losing physical ability fundamentally makes life worse, but it doesn't, it just means you have to be more creative about how to make life better with the resources you have.

My life has actually been filled with much more travel adventure since I became severely disabled because I prioritize it more and I've engineered my entire life around being able to. Hell, my dog has seen more UNESCO sites in the past few years than many people will in their lifetime.

Thank you for attending my Ted Talk on being curious about people with physical limitations

Does travel make a life full and interesting?  This has never been the case for me.

[HenryDavid]

In Rome I suggest the Prati area which is not chic but has everything and is not far from famous things. It’s a bit NW of the Vatican and it’s flat, for what that’s worth. Close to everything and has normal restaurants that normal Romans go to. Anyway worth a look for accommodations. 

[HenryDavid]

Also if you’re back to considering Italy, Lucca is a beautiful walled and mostly car free city near Pisa.
Perilously close to Florence though…..

[Metalcat]

Does travel make a life full and interesting?  This has never been the case for me.

Yeah, and back when I was able bodied and could eat food it was a hell of a lot easier to feel really stimulated and satisfied with just staying in the city I lived in, but as I've lost function, it's become more and more valuable for me to explore and try new things to not feel like my life and world are getting smaller.

Did you not read the part about not projecting your able-bodied understanding onto disabled people??

[iris lily]

Have you considered Asia? Bangkok, Tokyo and Kuala Lumpur come to mind.

Bangkok is especially good if you can take the Metro/Skyrail, water taxi's, regular road taxi's can be tough with traffic. The amount of things to do/see with minimal walking is insane.

Depending on your tolerance for heat and sensitivity to air quality, it might be too hot/sticky.

We haven't been to Tokyo (yet, spending 3 weeks in Japan this April) but based on our research it looks to be super easy to get around by public transportation, with cleaner air than SE Asian options.........ditto for many of the Japanese cities for that matter.

OMG do NOT send me to Thailand or any place in SE Asia without the ability to eat!!!!!

But Japan, now there’s a thought. I personally find Japanese food to be bland and so yeah, I could go there and I would bet with their advanced western tech technologies they  could accommodate people with mobility challenges easily. They would have beautiful gardens. Strolling through those gardens would be magical.

Japan is a good choice.

[iris lily]

I facetiously suggest Disney World because there are lots of things to see(and they are for the most part, stupid) and more importantly, the food is absolutely atrocious. The place is made for people with mobility challenges..

But you said no to North America so…your loss! Haha kidding.

[Metalcat]

I facetiously suggest Disney World because there are lots of things to see(and they are for the most part, stupid) and more importantly, the food is absolutely atrocious. The place is made for people with mobility challenges..

But you said no to North America so…your loss! Haha kidding.

I would also very much rather perform a splenectomy on myself than go to Disney, but I do always appreciate creative thinking.

[Villanelle]

European river cruise? Lots of stops, presumably adaptive on-board dietary options for your needs, get off and walk the city or not as you feel up to it.

Netherlands: when I watch "Not Just Bikes" I see tiny cars on the bike paths. Also Vespa style scooters. I don't know the rules or if that would be helpful to you.

A cruise seems like the best option if OP can manage food restrictions by rolling a cooler on board or working with the mess staff.

I have little to no interest in a cruise, I'm also not quite understanding why people keep saying it would be best. Can you please explain??

I've also said multiple times that I don't do well standing on moving vehicles.

The European cruises we did were basically floating hotels.  We got back from a day in port, ate dinner, and then hung out in our room reading or playing cards until bed time.  Totally understand if it isn't for you, but our waking hours on the ship, and especially while it was moving, were very limited, which is why I thought it might work. 


I considered mentioning Japan, but when I think back to my time living there, it doesn't seem especially disability-friendly. You mentioned not standing on public transport and getting around in Japan--or Tokyo and Yokohama, at least--without that is rough and expensive.  If you avoided trains during rush hour (which I'd recommend doing no matter the condition of one's body), you will almost certainly get a seat though.  I think every train has seats for the disabled and the Japanese people are polite and thoughtful enough that they will actually give up those seats, unlike other places. 

There would likely be lots of escalators, and a few times with luggage in train stations I struggled to find those and had to use stairs, but perhaps if I'd stop to ask (and I found Japanese people to be so thoughtful and helpful whenever I did this), someone would have directed me to an escalator or elevator. 

I can't recall if you drink coffee or tea, and are still able to.  But sitting in the chaos of Tokyo and people-watching was always a kick, and nice way for me to get off my feet for a while, as a break, so you could break up more active, walk-y days with that. 

I wish I could offer more about Tokyo/Yokohama (if it interests you), but I realize how little I know or noticed about its disability-friendliness. 

(Oh, and while I had some great meals in Tokyo, I wouldn't say that the food is the major draw for most people.)

[Metalcat]

European river cruise? Lots of stops, presumably adaptive on-board dietary options for your needs, get off and walk the city or not as you feel up to it.

Netherlands: when I watch "Not Just Bikes" I see tiny cars on the bike paths. Also Vespa style scooters. I don't know the rules or if that would be helpful to you.

A cruise seems like the best option if OP can manage food restrictions by rolling a cooler on board or working with the mess staff.

I have little to no interest in a cruise, I'm also not quite understanding why people keep saying it would be best. Can you please explain??

I've also said multiple times that I don't do well standing on moving vehicles.

The European cruises we did were basically floating hotels.  We got back from a day in port, ate dinner, and then hung out in our room reading or playing cards until bed time.  Totally understand if it isn't for you, but our waking hours on the ship, and especially while it was moving, were very limited, which is why I thought it might work. 


I considered mentioning Japan, but when I think back to my time living there, it doesn't seem especially disability-friendly. You mentioned not standing on public transport and getting around in Japan--or Tokyo and Yokohama, at least--without that is rough and expensive.  If you avoided trains during rush hour (which I'd recommend doing no matter the condition of one's body), you will almost certainly get a seat though.  I think every train has seats for the disabled and the Japanese people are polite and thoughtful enough that they will actually give up those seats, unlike other places. 

There would likely be lots of escalators, and a few times with luggage in train stations I struggled to find those and had to use stairs, but perhaps if I'd stop to ask (and I found Japanese people to be so thoughtful and helpful whenever I did this), someone would have directed me to an escalator or elevator. 

I can't recall if you drink coffee or tea, and are still able to.  But sitting in the chaos of Tokyo and people-watching was always a kick, and nice way for me to get off my feet for a while, as a break, so you could break up more active, walk-y days with that. 

I wish I could offer more about Tokyo/Yokohama (if it interests you), but I realize how little I know or noticed about its disability-friendliness. 

(Oh, and while I had some great meals in Tokyo, I wouldn't say that the food is the major draw for most people.)

There are definitely places in Japan that I want to explore, but probably not for a shorter trip.

My mom has MS and has spent a lot of time in Japan, so she can give me guidance. But I don't think it's ideal for this trip. I've never done a really long flight, and I don't want to push it. I would probably take longer and slow travel my way there instead iof going directly there for just 2 weeks.

[314159]

I'm going to second the recommendations for Northern, Eastern, or Central Europe.

Here's my thought process. You don't want to go to Canada or the US. Mexico's food is too good. South of Mexico, Central American food is not very good but there is not much urban exploration to be done, it's more of a nature/beach destination. South America is much further away. I have not been, but only Rio de Janeiro and Buenos Aires* come to mind as urban destinations. If you don't like their respective cuisines you might consider them, but generally their food is popular so I wouldn't recommend them for you. (Also Rio is famously hilly.)

Tokyo (or other Japanese cities) would score great for you on urban interestingness and able-to-get-around (as long as you're willing to shell out for some taxis) but the food is too delicious and it's a very long flight. The rest of Asia is ever further, less easy to get around, and the food is still delicious. Australia is even further, less good food, but less interesting. Africa is going to be difficult to get around. So write off all of Asia, Africa, and Australia. Antartica is not known for its urbanism either. (Wow, judging whole continents is fun!)

By process of elimination, this leaves Europe. Iceland, Norway, and the British Isles we can strike out for being too similar to your NL home. France is too tasty. Similarly, in the Mediterranean region, Barcelona and Florence must be avoided. In Madrid and Rome I have had great meals but also mediocre ones so they could be worth investigating but not my top choices for you.

The city in the Mediterranean that I found to have the worst food but still worthwhile to visit on its other strengths is Venice. (And I was trying, hard, to find good food!) But obviously getting around would be a big challenge (crutches would work but not a wheelchair, except within museums), especially if boats are more difficult for you than cars, so I cannot recommend it for you. Plus it's crowded, though crowds are concentrated in the most popular areas. (Though I suppose the compactness of the city might serve to your advantage? No, still not worthwhile. Even at your slow pace of exploration I am not sure it would hold your interest for long enough to be worth a trip in its own right...though you could pair it with another destination, say Rome or Croatia. But then you might well prefer to just stay there!)

I have never been to Croatia or anywhere in the Balkans and I don't know much about them so I can't speak to them.

Looking further southeast, there's Istanbul. When I went last year the food actually disappointed me greatly, plus my wife and I developed a digestive illness (possibly from the water rather than the food—even though we tried our best to only drink bottled water). I honestly didn't love it as a destination even food aside but some people do quite like it. Part of my issue was cultural; I don't like it when every restaurant and shop have a guy standing out front trying to get you to come in. Due to recent inflation in Turkey, it's not as good a deal as it once was. Not recommending it.

Rome...it could work. You'll definitely see and smell people at sidewalk cafes eating some good stuff. But it's also true that the average place you walk by might not be that good. There is a lot to see. But if I were you I would still avoid it on food grounds. Someone upthread mentioned the best time to visit Rome is Christmas. I have an aunt that says the same thing! I've only ever been in summer.

Instead, I'd turn to Switzerland or points north or east of it. I lived in Berlin for a year and while good restaurants can be found you won't be sad to be missing the standard German menu. Honestly I think Berlin is better to live in than to visit, so I'd prefer Munich. Better than Munich would be Vienna, which pairs nicely with Prague if you want to do two cities. Personally I prefer Vienna for being cleaner and more put together (also I speak German but not Czech), but you could well prefer Prague since I recall you don't mind a bit of grunge and grime in your cities.

I have only been to two cities in Switzerland (Bern and Lucerne) for a total of one long weekend. I found the country to be absolutely beautiful, and the food to be not only bland but also absurdly expensive. As such it scores very poorly (or very well, rather) on your food component! It has both global-tier cities and beautiful natural views. If you choose to take the train between cities or to see some glaciers, rides are short since it's a small country. I would strongly consider it.

The food in Belgium is not particularly good, though if you love the smell of fresh-fried frites you will have a bad time because the frites stands are everywhere. Brussels was great a weekend trip when I lived in Berlin but not worthwhile coming across the pond. Bruges is a popular destination of medieval architecture; I've never been.

I have never been to the Netherlands but I suspect it would be a very good match for you. Strongly recommend you consider it.

I've never to Poland but I think 2B1S's claim that the food is better in Warsaw than Rome is a very strong claim, I would definitely do your research!

I think I recall you've been to Copenhagen but maybe that was just a potential place to retire to. It could work. Rounding out the continent, Sweden and Finland could be options but I've never been.

Thanks for joining me on this quick judgmental tour of the world!

*on the subject of Argentinian food, here is a blog post both amusing and informative. It's 18 years old, so probably out of date. Warning, contains extensive descriptions of food, you may be better off not reading it!

[Poeirenta]

Sorry to be unclear. I meant the white bread is available because they use it for that sandwich, not that you could eat the sandwich.

On the cultural scale, lots of interesting things in Portugal. Lots of Uber/Bolt/taxi availability too in most places.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

[RetiredAt63]

After flying to New Zealand twice,  I agree that any place with that long a flight is out.  Even first class would be killer. To me a minimum stay there is 2 months, longer is better.

So basically Europe.

[NotJen]

I've never been to a restaurant on earth that serves the kind of bread I can eat, and I would not be able to assume that just because they serve ham that it will be the right consistency.

This is NOT a travel suggestion.

But if, at some point in your life, you want to see the bread you can eat served at a restaurant: Legit BBQ places in the southern US will serve a partial loaf of Wonder bread with your meal.

[Metalcat]

I've never been to a restaurant on earth that serves the kind of bread I can eat, and I would not be able to assume that just because they serve ham that it will be the right consistency.

This is NOT a travel suggestion.

But if, at some point in your life, you want to see the bread you can eat served at a restaurant: Legit BBQ places in the southern US will serve a partial loaf of Wonder bread with your meal.

Lol, fair. I haven't eaten much in the US, but this doesn't sound terribly surprising.

Not that I would ever be able to eat BBQ though, which is profoundly depressing...

[Metalcat]

Sorry to be unclear. I meant the white bread is available because they use it for that sandwich, not that you could eat the sandwich.

On the cultural scale, lots of interesting things in Portugal. Lots of Uber/Bolt/taxi availability too in most places.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

Ah, thanks for clarifying. But I'm not likely to go to a restaurant just to have wonderbread. I'm sure wherever I travel to, I'll be able to buy white, ultra processed bread somewhere if I need it.

[Green_Tea]

- Agree that you don't come to Switzerland for the food.
- Also second the Netherlands and Belgium because of fried food.
- Obviously GB and Ireland.
- Agree that Germany, Austria and all of the Scandinavian countries should work fine food wise.
- Possibly parts of eastern Europe if that's not your cup of tea, though I would be intrigued by some of the more unfamiliar-to-me food.
- I also agree with the sentiment of typical Italian tourist food not being very interesting.

Part of this is, that the more northern European countries are much less "in your face" about food than southern Europe and much less interested in or proud of it. The same can not necessarily been said about Eastern Europe though.

Interesting bigger cities I've liked:
Berlin and Warshaw and Krakow (all first choice for "cool and interesting")
Hamburg
Amsterdam
Copenhague

While I personally absolutely LOVE Switzerland, no Swiss city would classify as "cool" or have world-class museums. Swiss cities are cute, quaint or beautiful, and lots have some elevation though they are pretty accessible. Also the mountains are amazingly accessible.

[reeshau]

Sorry to be unclear. I meant the white bread is available because they use it for that sandwich, not that you could eat the sandwich.

On the cultural scale, lots of interesting things in Portugal. Lots of Uber/Bolt/taxi availability too in most places.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

Ah, thanks for clarifying. But I'm not likely to go to a restaurant just to have wonderbread. I'm sure wherever I travel to, I'll be able to buy white, ultra processed bread somewhere if I need it.

Might be hard, actually, in Europe.  While there certainly was white bread in Ireland, there was no loaf that would last unrefrigerated for more than half a week.  We had to start buying "half pans," because even with two sandwich lovers we couldn't devour the bread before it spoiled.

On the other hand, maybe there is more you could tolerate there, without all the chemicals.  Vacation isn't the time to explore, but if you considered moving it could be important.

https://www.tesco.ie/groceries/en-IE/search?query=bread&icid=tescohp_sws-1_m-ft_in-bread_out-bread&department=Bread&viewAll=department&page=3

You might go foe the basic Brennan's white or Tesco house-brand white.

[Zikoris]

I can see why people are recommending cruises, since in my experience they have had the worst food of any trips, and also are extremely disability-friendly, in both getting around the ships, and having mobility-friendly activities available everywhere. But cruising is a very specific experience and I get it if its not your thing.

Are trains an option? I think taking the train across Canada would be a fun experience.

I found Switzerland to have nominal food and good accessibility.

[314159]

I will also ask—what kind of rewards points are you working with?

In most cases, there are easy ways to redeem points for mediocre value and more complicated ways to redeem points for very high value.

The airlines and credit card companies benefit from this because travel bloggers and influencers can say “I took this incredible trip with the points from this card” and then normal people sign up and redeem the points for a one-way domestic flight.

If you have multiple destinations in mind that you have roughly equal interest in, you can check the points prices, which vary much more than cash prices, and pick the cheapest one. 

[Metalcat]

Sorry to be unclear. I meant the white bread is available because they use it for that sandwich, not that you could eat the sandwich.

On the cultural scale, lots of interesting things in Portugal. Lots of Uber/Bolt/taxi availability too in most places.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

Ah, thanks for clarifying. But I'm not likely to go to a restaurant just to have wonderbread. I'm sure wherever I travel to, I'll be able to buy white, ultra processed bread somewhere if I need it.

Might be hard, actually, in Europe.  While there certainly was white bread in Ireland, there was no loaf that would last unrefrigerated for more than half a week.  We had to start buying "half pans," because even with two sandwich lovers we couldn't devour the bread before it spoiled.

On the other hand, maybe there is more you could tolerate there, without all the chemicals.  Vacation isn't the time to explore, but if you considered moving it could be important.

https://www.tesco.ie/groceries/en-IE/search?query=bread&icid=tescohp_sws-1_m-ft_in-bread_out-bread&department=Bread&viewAll=department&page=3

You might go foe the basic Brennan's white or Tesco house-brand white.

I have zero need to eat white bread, it's just one of the things I can eat.

I don't like anything I can eat, so I DGAF if I can't get any one item. I eat solely not to starve now.

[Metalcat]

I can see why people are recommending cruises, since in my experience they have had the worst food of any trips, and also are extremely disability-friendly, in both getting around the ships, and having mobility-friendly activities available everywhere. But cruising is a very specific experience and I get it if its not your thing.

Are trains an option? I think taking the train across Canada would be a fun experience.

I found Switzerland to have nominal food and good accessibility.

Walking on a train is challenging, plus I don't really want to explore Canada more for this trip.

[Metalcat]

I will also ask—what kind of rewards points are you working with?

In most cases, there are easy ways to redeem points for mediocre value and more complicated ways to redeem points for very high value.

The airlines and credit card companies benefit from this because travel bloggers and influencers can say “I took this incredible trip with the points from this card” and then normal people sign up and redeem the points for a one-way domestic flight.

If you have multiple destinations in mind that you have roughly equal interest in, you can check the points prices, which vary much more than cash prices, and pick the cheapest one.

I would rather prioritize finding a destination that works for my very particular limitations rather than optimize for price.

I'm using Avion points

[fredbear]

If the desiderata are good scenery and bad food, it's hard to do better/worse than Utah.  Get an airbnb in Moab so you can fix what you need to eat, rent a pilot and a small plane (usually, Redtail Aviation) and have her fly you all the hell over Utah or even down to Grand Canyon.  I never knew anybody but long-distance road bikers that ever regretted missing a meal in Southern Utah.

[PoutineLover]

That's so tricky because walking and eating are the main things I usually do on trips.

But I'll say split and Dubrovnik in Croatia were amazing cities architecturally and visually, and both are fairly small so very easy to get around with just short walks or taxi rides if you stay central, although also lots of cobblestones.

The food was good but pretty standard seaside fare, not internationally known kind of good. Hope you find a place that works!

Cobblestone isn't a problem. Dubrovnik is definitely a possibility as it's one of DH's other favourite cities from his European adventures back in the 90s. Although seafood is my very, very favourite and I just suffered a week-long ischemic attack thanks to a few ounces of cod...

Yeah almost any seaside city would have lots of seafood so maybe inland options would have fewer temptations. My other suggestions are some landlocked cities I've enjoyed.

Vilnius, Lithuania. Super mediocre food (very potato centric) and a decent city to walk around. One particularly cool area is Uzupis, which considers itself independent and has their own statement of rights and obligations.

Budapest is also a really great city, not particularly memorable food but lots of neat historical areas and an incredible public bath/spa.

Prague was also a really cool city that I enjoyed visiting. Food was nothing special but I remember it being very cheap. This was over ten years ago so who knows now.

Lots of people are mentioning Rome but having been there and all over Italy, it's not the best part of Italy and even if there's lots of touristy food, Italian food is on average is still so good because everything is so fresh. But if you can tune it out, the historical sights are definitely worth a visit.