Where do you stand on "living with Covid", "getting back to normal"

[nereo]

Daycare had multiple breakthrough cases and is now closed.
24 sets of parents must now find alternative childcare.
Merry Christmas everyone.

[K_in_the_kitchen]

We're feeling intense family pressure to "get back to normal" regarding indoor Christmas gatherings.  The accusation -- which has been leveled at us repeatedly -- is that we don't want to see them.  But my brilliant young adult son just pointed out that if these people in the family prioritized the ability to see us over everything else (conspiracy theories and woo, mostly), they would be willing to get vaccinated.  And really, why should their "right" to not have "poison" injected into their bodies outweigh my "right" not to contract Covid in my own home and possibly get long Covid?

I mean seriously, what do you do when you have a close relative who believes the lunar landings were faked and the world is flat?  Or that cannabis cures cancer but the government won't approve it because the health care industry will lose money?  That condensation trails are really government produced chemtrails designed to poison us and make money once again for the health care industry?  Oh, and that vitamin C IVs cure Covid (which they didn't believe was real until they got it) and essential oils can disinfect everything and we'll be safe from Covid?  Plus so many more -- all in one person?

I mean, this person isn't the only one -- both sides of the family are full of Covid deniers, election deniers, birthers, etc.  We're actually lucky that my dad moved across the country, or the holiday pressure would be high despite his refusal to get vaccinated.  But then I'm good at boundaries and at calling him on his bullshit, at least when he tries to make me believe it.  I've gotten very good at saying "I disagree", or "the science doesn't support that".

[PDXTabs]

We're feeling intense family pressure to "get back to normal" regarding indoor Christmas gatherings.  The accusation -- which has been leveled at us repeatedly -- is that we don't want to see them.  But my brilliant young adult son just pointed out that if these people in the family prioritized the ability to see us over everything else (conspiracy theories and woo, mostly), they would be willing to get vaccinated.  And really, why should their "right" to not have "poison" injected into their bodies outweigh my "right" not to contract Covid in my own home and possibly get long Covid?

Well, at this point something like 75% of the US adult population is fully vaccinated. I'd tell them that being fully vaccinated is normal.

I mean seriously, what do you do when you have a close relative who believes the lunar landings were faked and the world is flat?  Or that cannabis cures cancer but the government won't approve it because the health care industry will lose money?  That condensation trails are really government produced chemtrails designed to poison us and make money once again for the health care industry?  Oh, and that vitamin C IVs cure Covid (which they didn't believe was real until they got it) and essential oils can disinfect everything and we'll be safe from Covid?  Plus so many more -- all in one person?

I mean, this person isn't the only one -- both sides of the family are full of Covid deniers, election deniers, birthers, etc.  We're actually lucky that my dad moved across the country, or the holiday pressure would be high despite his refusal to get vaccinated.  But then I'm good at boundaries and at calling him on his bullshit, at least when he tries to make me believe it.  I've gotten very good at saying "I disagree", or "the science doesn't support that".

That's hard, because if uncle Dick is a flat earther it's not really a big deal, but if he's a COVID conspiracy theorist that's a bigger problem.

I just listened to this recent intervew with Dr Fauci about how we will get back to a truly normal state of existence (just like 1918) but that it is going to take a lot of death and suffering along the way by the people who refuse to get vaccinated.

[HPstache]

We're feeling intense family pressure to "get back to normal" regarding indoor Christmas gatherings.  The accusation -- which has been leveled at us repeatedly -- is that we don't want to see them.  But my brilliant young adult son just pointed out that if these people in the family prioritized the ability to see us over everything else (conspiracy theories and woo, mostly), they would be willing to get vaccinated.  And really, why should their "right" to not have "poison" injected into their bodies outweigh my "right" not to contract Covid in my own home and possibly get long Covid?

I mean seriously, what do you do when you have a close relative who believes the lunar landings were faked and the world is flat?  Or that cannabis cures cancer but the government won't approve it because the health care industry will lose money?  That condensation trails are really government produced chemtrails designed to poison us and make money once again for the health care industry?  Oh, and that vitamin C IVs cure Covid (which they didn't believe was real until they got it) and essential oils can disinfect everything and we'll be safe from Covid?  Plus so many more -- all in one person?

I mean, this person isn't the only one -- both sides of the family are full of Covid deniers, election deniers, birthers, etc.  We're actually lucky that my dad moved across the country, or the holiday pressure would be high despite his refusal to get vaccinated.  But then I'm good at boundaries and at calling him on his bullshit, at least when he tries to make me believe it.  I've gotten very good at saying "I disagree", or "the science doesn't support that".

Is one of their theories that the vaccine doesn't work or isn't effective?  Because in my opinion, your behavior is kind of confirming that.  I mean, if you're vaccinated, why aren't you going?  If everyone at the party were vaccinated, would that really make a difference?  What other conclusion could your family possibly come to when the vaccinated people are too afraid to come to the party due to covid other than the vaccine is ineffective or you don't want to see them?

[PDXTabs]

I mean, if you're vaccinated, why aren't you going?  If everyone at the party were vaccinated, would that really make a difference?  What other conclusion could your family possibly come to when the vaccinated people are too afraid to come to the party due to covid other than the vaccine is ineffective or you don't want to see them?

1. I think that K wrote that this was in reference to a private gathering in their home. They aren't going anywhere.
2. There's this little thing called conditional probability. Without going into a math lesson, the fact that three doses of Pfizer provides me with ~76% protection against Omicron SARS-COV-2 infection makes me a more inviting guest if your goal is not to get infected than a participant with zero doses.

[Kris]

Maybe this has been asked and answered, but how far do you push asking people if they've been vaccinated? Case in point, I use a couple of different veterinarians. One of them has been faithfully following the protocol of clients staying in their cars, the (fully masked) staff runs the pets back and forth. The other is a different situation - I didn't visit during the early onset of the pandemic, but not long afterward they were allowing clients into the waiting room. Masking was hit and miss. Lo and behold, that practice had to shut down in August when Delta was raging. I haven't been back to them and I'm not sure I want to unless I know why they had their shutdown and if they have now changed their practices. Is it even legal to ask a small business about vax status?

Ask. Of course that is legal. If they refuse to answer, you have your answer.

[PDXTabs]

Maybe this has been asked and answered, but how far do you push asking people if they've been vaccinated? Case in point, I use a couple of different veterinarians. One of them has been faithfully following the protocol of clients staying in their cars, the (fully masked) staff runs the pets back and forth. The other is a different situation - I didn't visit during the early onset of the pandemic, but not long afterward they were allowing clients into the waiting room. Masking was hit and miss. Lo and behold, that practice had to shut down in August when Delta was raging. I haven't been back to them and I'm not sure I want to unless I know why they had their shutdown and if they have now changed their practices. Is it even legal to ask a small business about vax status?

Ask. Of course that is legal. If they refuse to answer, you have your answer.

You are free to ask, but I would bet that most businesses answer either "that's none of your business" or "we are in compliance will all OSHA requirements." My company HR department knows everyone's vaccination status. We don't hand it out to people who walk in the door asking for it.

[Kris]

Maybe this has been asked and answered, but how far do you push asking people if they've been vaccinated? Case in point, I use a couple of different veterinarians. One of them has been faithfully following the protocol of clients staying in their cars, the (fully masked) staff runs the pets back and forth. The other is a different situation - I didn't visit during the early onset of the pandemic, but not long afterward they were allowing clients into the waiting room. Masking was hit and miss. Lo and behold, that practice had to shut down in August when Delta was raging. I haven't been back to them and I'm not sure I want to unless I know why they had their shutdown and if they have now changed their practices. Is it even legal to ask a small business about vax status?

Ask. Of course that is legal. If they refuse to answer, you have your answer.

You are free to ask, but I would bet that most businesses answer either "that's none of your business" or "we are in compliance will all OSHA requirements." My company HR department knows everyone's vaccination status. We don't hand it out to people who walk in the door asking for it.

Businesses here that I would want to frequent readily tell their customers that they require employees to be vaccinated. Case in point, the hair salon I went to just three hours ago.

[Villanelle]

We're feeling intense family pressure to "get back to normal" regarding indoor Christmas gatherings.  The accusation -- which has been leveled at us repeatedly -- is that we don't want to see them.  But my brilliant young adult son just pointed out that if these people in the family prioritized the ability to see us over everything else (conspiracy theories and woo, mostly), they would be willing to get vaccinated.  And really, why should their "right" to not have "poison" injected into their bodies outweigh my "right" not to contract Covid in my own home and possibly get long Covid?

I mean seriously, what do you do when you have a close relative who believes the lunar landings were faked and the world is flat?  Or that cannabis cures cancer but the government won't approve it because the health care industry will lose money?  That condensation trails are really government produced chemtrails designed to poison us and make money once again for the health care industry?  Oh, and that vitamin C IVs cure Covid (which they didn't believe was real until they got it) and essential oils can disinfect everything and we'll be safe from Covid?  Plus so many more -- all in one person?

I mean, this person isn't the only one -- both sides of the family are full of Covid deniers, election deniers, birthers, etc.  We're actually lucky that my dad moved across the country, or the holiday pressure would be high despite his refusal to get vaccinated.  But then I'm good at boundaries and at calling him on his bullshit, at least when he tries to make me believe it.  I've gotten very good at saying "I disagree", or "the science doesn't support that".

Is one of their theories that the vaccine doesn't work or isn't effective?  Because in my opinion, your behavior is kind of confirming that.  I mean, if you're vaccinated, why aren't you going? If everyone at the party were vaccinated, would that really make a difference?  What other conclusion could your family possibly come to when the vaccinated people are too afraid to come to the party due to covid other than the vaccine is ineffective or you don't want to see them?

I can never tell if people who ask questions like this are genuinely curious, or if they are asking what they feel is a rhetorical question.

But the answer is basic math.  Probabilities.  If elves have an 18% chance of starting the Christmas tree on fire, and that fire only has a 10% chance of being serious, and only a 12% chance of spreading to the neighbors' homes, and Grinches have a 48% chance of starting a tree fire, and that fire has a 38% chance of being serious, and a 62% chance of spreading to the neighbors, do you see how it would matter to me?  Even if I have a fire extinguisher?

I don't want Covid.  But I'm vaxxed and boosted so I'm not really worried about my individual outcome.  But I do worry because spouse would have to quarantine and that would be a nightmare for his work.  And I worry that I could spread it to someone at the grocery store or the guy coming to inspect the HVAC in my rental home (I have no choice or say in that matter).  And I worry that they could spread it, perhaps far and wide if they aren't vaccinated.  And that can inundate the healthcare system.  If I slip on ice and have a compound fracture in my leg, I might not get timely care.  But it's not really just about me.  It's also about the old man who lives down the street who has a heart attack shoveling snow.  And the nephew of my friend's cousin's dog groomer who isn't vaccinated and ends up dying from Covid.

No one is saying that vaccination makes one bullet proof.  I can still get and spread Covid.  It is less likely, but entirely possible.  That doesn't mean it isn't worth while.  And if I do get it, I'm less likely to need medical care, and less likely to die.  So the notion that vaccinated people still wearing masks or distancing or anything else somehow constitutes proof that the vaccine isn't worth while is silly.

And it's not something that anyone except a tiny fringe has said about other vaccines, even though they too aren't 100% effective.  We didn't have people running around refusing to get vaccinated against measles because there was still a chance they could catch it.  And they didn't site someone who was vaccinated but still not interested in sharing close quarters with someone who has measles as proof the vaccine is pointless.  Because they understood it was all about decreasing the *likelihood* of bad things happening. 

The vaccine is not INeffective.  It is just not 100% effective, and no one has claimed it is.

[Zikoris]

Maybe this has been asked and answered, but how far do you push asking people if they've been vaccinated? Case in point, I use a couple of different veterinarians. One of them has been faithfully following the protocol of clients staying in their cars, the (fully masked) staff runs the pets back and forth. The other is a different situation - I didn't visit during the early onset of the pandemic, but not long afterward they were allowing clients into the waiting room. Masking was hit and miss. Lo and behold, that practice had to shut down in August when Delta was raging. I haven't been back to them and I'm not sure I want to unless I know why they had their shutdown and if they have now changed their practices. Is it even legal to ask a small business about vax status?

Ask. Of course that is legal. If they refuse to answer, you have your answer.

You are free to ask, but I would bet that most businesses answer either "that's none of your business" or "we are in compliance will all OSHA requirements." My company HR department knows everyone's vaccination status. We don't hand it out to people who walk in the door asking for it.

Is this becoming a thing, I wonder? I'm a receptionist booking appointments in a lot of different offices, and I can say that nobody has ever asked me if the person they'll be meeting with is vaccinated - which is a good thing for me, because other than a few coworkers who have specifically mentioned being vaccinated, I have no clue who is and isn't.

[K_in_the_kitchen]

We're feeling intense family pressure to "get back to normal" regarding indoor Christmas gatherings.  The accusation -- which has been leveled at us repeatedly -- is that we don't want to see them.  But my brilliant young adult son just pointed out that if these people in the family prioritized the ability to see us over everything else (conspiracy theories and woo, mostly), they would be willing to get vaccinated.  And really, why should their "right" to not have "poison" injected into their bodies outweigh my "right" not to contract Covid in my own home and possibly get long Covid?

I mean seriously, what do you do when you have a close relative who believes the lunar landings were faked and the world is flat?  Or that cannabis cures cancer but the government won't approve it because the health care industry will lose money?  That condensation trails are really government produced chemtrails designed to poison us and make money once again for the health care industry?  Oh, and that vitamin C IVs cure Covid (which they didn't believe was real until they got it) and essential oils can disinfect everything and we'll be safe from Covid?  Plus so many more -- all in one person?

I mean, this person isn't the only one -- both sides of the family are full of Covid deniers, election deniers, birthers, etc.  We're actually lucky that my dad moved across the country, or the holiday pressure would be high despite his refusal to get vaccinated.  But then I'm good at boundaries and at calling him on his bullshit, at least when he tries to make me believe it.  I've gotten very good at saying "I disagree", or "the science doesn't support that".

Is one of their theories that the vaccine doesn't work or isn't effective?  Because in my opinion, your behavior is kind of confirming that.  I mean, if you're vaccinated, why aren't you going?  If everyone at the party were vaccinated, would that really make a difference?  What other conclusion could your family possibly come to when the vaccinated people are too afraid to come to the party due to covid other than the vaccine is ineffective or you don't want to see them?

They say the vaccines are poisons the government is injecting into people.  They say Big Pharma can't be trusted.  They say the government can't be trusted, especially regarding health, and they actively believe conspiracy theories that say the government does things to intentionally make people sick.  They say the scientists can't be trusted.  They say diet, supplements, crystals, and essential oils can prevent catching Covid.  They say people with enlightened minds can tell their bodies not to contract Covid.  They say we are brainwashed.

What is happening with Omicron has changed the game.  Sure, it's highly unlikely a vaccinated and boosted person would require hospitalization or die from contracting omicron, but plenty of vaccinated and boosted people are going to catch it and some will experience a nasty illness.  Plus there just isn't enough data yet, and at our gathering both another guest and I are at higher risk.  And we don't want our young adult kids to contract Omicron and be sick during their break or risk not being able to return to university.

It was hard to make this decision.  If we could hold an outdoor gathering, we would.  As soon as the weather permits we're more than willing to see our unvaccinated family members in an outdoor setting.

[K_in_the_kitchen]

I mean, if you're vaccinated, why aren't you going?  If everyone at the party were vaccinated, would that really make a difference?  What other conclusion could your family possibly come to when the vaccinated people are too afraid to come to the party due to covid other than the vaccine is ineffective or you don't want to see them?

1. I think that K wrote that this was in reference to a private gathering in their home. They aren't going anywhere.
2. There's this little thing called conditional probability. Without going into a math lesson, the fact that three doses of Pfizer provides me with ~76% protection against Omicron SARS-COV-2 infection makes me a more inviting guest if your goal is not to get infected than a participant with zero doses.

Exactly, this is in our home.  If it were at another family member's house and we knew unvaccinated guests would be present we would choose to stay home and find other ways to see people.

And yes, vaccinated and boosted doesn't mean 100% protection.  But if the other guests are also vaccinated and boosted, it lowers the risk for everyone.

[PDXTabs]

Maybe this has been asked and answered, but how far do you push asking people if they've been vaccinated? Case in point, I use a couple of different veterinarians. One of them has been faithfully following the protocol of clients staying in their cars, the (fully masked) staff runs the pets back and forth. The other is a different situation - I didn't visit during the early onset of the pandemic, but not long afterward they were allowing clients into the waiting room. Masking was hit and miss. Lo and behold, that practice had to shut down in August when Delta was raging. I haven't been back to them and I'm not sure I want to unless I know why they had their shutdown and if they have now changed their practices. Is it even legal to ask a small business about vax status?

Ask. Of course that is legal. If they refuse to answer, you have your answer.

You are free to ask, but I would bet that most businesses answer either "that's none of your business" or "we are in compliance will all OSHA requirements." My company HR department knows everyone's vaccination status. We don't hand it out to people who walk in the door asking for it.

Businesses here that I would want to frequent readily tell their customers that they require employees to be vaccinated. Case in point, the hair salon I went to just three hours ago.

I wonder if they are just saying that or if they just don't have any employees that have requested an exemption for a sincerely held religious belief. EDIT: or maybe they are actually willing to fight it in court as an undue hardship.

[Kris]

Maybe this has been asked and answered, but how far do you push asking people if they've been vaccinated? Case in point, I use a couple of different veterinarians. One of them has been faithfully following the protocol of clients staying in their cars, the (fully masked) staff runs the pets back and forth. The other is a different situation - I didn't visit during the early onset of the pandemic, but not long afterward they were allowing clients into the waiting room. Masking was hit and miss. Lo and behold, that practice had to shut down in August when Delta was raging. I haven't been back to them and I'm not sure I want to unless I know why they had their shutdown and if they have now changed their practices. Is it even legal to ask a small business about vax status?

Ask. Of course that is legal. If they refuse to answer, you have your answer.

You are free to ask, but I would bet that most businesses answer either "that's none of your business" or "we are in compliance will all OSHA requirements." My company HR department knows everyone's vaccination status. We don't hand it out to people who walk in the door asking for it.

Businesses here that I would want to frequent readily tell their customers that they require employees to be vaccinated. Case in point, the hair salon I went to just three hours ago.

I wonder if they are just saying that or if they just don't have any employees that have requested an exemption for a sincerely held religious belief. EDIT: or maybe they are actually willing to fight it in court as an undue hardship.

The only places I am going are places with vax policies.

[PDXTabs]

The only places I am going are places with vax policies.

I get that, and you writings have added meaningful on-topic content to the thread. I'm wondering "aloud" how many businesses in the country that claim to have a "vax policy" are quietly accepting religious exceptions. Or just lying to their customers. I was at one such business the lied to my face yesterday, but not about vaccines.

[Kris]

The only places I am going are places with vax policies.

I get that, and you writings have added meaningful on-topic content to the thread. I'm wondering "aloud" how many businesses in the country that claim to have a "vax policy" are quietly accepting religious exceptions. Or just lying to their customers. I was at one such business the lied to my face yesterday, but not about vaccines.

Who knows? But my sense is that this country is so polarized that most businesses who are anti-vax are proud of it. Like, it’s a marketing chip for them. So I figure most businesses are gonna fall into one of three categories:

1) vocally pro-vax: meaning they require evidence of their employees and employ protocols that vehemently anti-vax people would reject on principle

2) vax status avoidant: refusing to take a stand or ask people, in which case one should assume employees and customers are largely not safe

3) vocally anti-vax/anti-mask: in which case, one should assume no safety at all.

[RetiredAt63]

Just heard that 2 people I know slightly in my city, who are in their 30s, have the omicron variant (not surprising, 100% omicron in our wastewater).  Bad cold basically, with fever, fatigue, and headache.  One is double vaccinated, one is boostered.  So much for "back to normal", we are in "it spreads like measles" territory.

[SunnyDays]

We're feeling intense family pressure to "get back to normal" regarding indoor Christmas gatherings.  The accusation -- which has been leveled at us repeatedly -- is that we don't want to see them.  But my brilliant young adult son just pointed out that if these people in the family prioritized the ability to see us over everything else (conspiracy theories and woo, mostly), they would be willing to get vaccinated.  And really, why should their "right" to not have "poison" injected into their bodies outweigh my "right" not to contract Covid in my own home and possibly get long Covid?

I mean seriously, what do you do when you have a close relative who believes the lunar landings were faked and the world is flat?  Or that cannabis cures cancer but the government won't approve it because the health care industry will lose money?  That condensation trails are really government produced chemtrails designed to poison us and make money once again for the health care industry?  Oh, and that vitamin C IVs cure Covid (which they didn't believe was real until they got it) and essential oils can disinfect everything and we'll be safe from Covid?  Plus so many more -- all in one person?

I mean, this person isn't the only one -- both sides of the family are full of Covid deniers, election deniers, birthers, etc.  We're actually lucky that my dad moved across the country, or the holiday pressure would be high despite his refusal to get vaccinated.  But then I'm good at boundaries and at calling him on his bullshit, at least when he tries to make me believe it.  I've gotten very good at saying "I disagree", or "the science doesn't support that".

Is one of their theories that the vaccine doesn't work or isn't effective?  Because in my opinion, your behavior is kind of confirming that.  I mean, if you're vaccinated, why aren't you going?  If everyone at the party were vaccinated, would that really make a difference?  What other conclusion could your family possibly come to when the vaccinated people are too afraid to come to the party due to covid other than the vaccine is ineffective or you don't want to see them?

Frankly, if I were K in the Kitchen, I wouldn’t want to see these people at any time.  I mean, what do you even talk about with someone who holds all these bizarre beliefs?  If Covid gives me an excuse not to see them, all the better.  Let them think what they want.

[Cranky]

We're feeling intense family pressure to "get back to normal" regarding indoor Christmas gatherings.  The accusation -- which has been leveled at us repeatedly -- is that we don't want to see them.  But my brilliant young adult son just pointed out that if these people in the family prioritized the ability to see us over everything else (conspiracy theories and woo, mostly), they would be willing to get vaccinated.  And really, why should their "right" to not have "poison" injected into their bodies outweigh my "right" not to contract Covid in my own home and possibly get long Covid?

I mean seriously, what do you do when you have a close relative who believes the lunar landings were faked and the world is flat?  Or that cannabis cures cancer but the government won't approve it because the health care industry will lose money?  That condensation trails are really government produced chemtrails designed to poison us and make money once again for the health care industry?  Oh, and that vitamin C IVs cure Covid (which they didn't believe was real until they got it) and essential oils can disinfect everything and we'll be safe from Covid?  Plus so many more -- all in one person?

I mean, this person isn't the only one -- both sides of the family are full of Covid deniers, election deniers, birthers, etc.  We're actually lucky that my dad moved across the country, or the holiday pressure would be high despite his refusal to get vaccinated.  But then I'm good at boundaries and at calling him on his bullshit, at least when he tries to make me believe it.  I've gotten very good at saying "I disagree", or "the science doesn't support that".

Is one of their theories that the vaccine doesn't work or isn't effective?  Because in my opinion, your behavior is kind of confirming that.  I mean, if you're vaccinated, why aren't you going?  If everyone at the party were vaccinated, would that really make a difference?  What other conclusion could your family possibly come to when the vaccinated people are too afraid to come to the party due to covid other than the vaccine is ineffective or you don't want to see them?

Because vaccination is a group project and it always has been. It is not a magical shield that keeps germs from landing on you.

You need enough people to be vaccinated to cut the transmission of the disease. A highly infectious disease like Covid requires a very high vaccination rate to do that.

[GuitarStv]

We're feeling intense family pressure to "get back to normal" regarding indoor Christmas gatherings.  The accusation -- which has been leveled at us repeatedly -- is that we don't want to see them.  But my brilliant young adult son just pointed out that if these people in the family prioritized the ability to see us over everything else (conspiracy theories and woo, mostly), they would be willing to get vaccinated.  And really, why should their "right" to not have "poison" injected into their bodies outweigh my "right" not to contract Covid in my own home and possibly get long Covid?

I mean seriously, what do you do when you have a close relative who believes the lunar landings were faked and the world is flat?  Or that cannabis cures cancer but the government won't approve it because the health care industry will lose money?  That condensation trails are really government produced chemtrails designed to poison us and make money once again for the health care industry?  Oh, and that vitamin C IVs cure Covid (which they didn't believe was real until they got it) and essential oils can disinfect everything and we'll be safe from Covid?  Plus so many more -- all in one person?

I mean, this person isn't the only one -- both sides of the family are full of Covid deniers, election deniers, birthers, etc.  We're actually lucky that my dad moved across the country, or the holiday pressure would be high despite his refusal to get vaccinated.  But then I'm good at boundaries and at calling him on his bullshit, at least when he tries to make me believe it.  I've gotten very good at saying "I disagree", or "the science doesn't support that".

Is one of their theories that the vaccine doesn't work or isn't effective?  Because in my opinion, your behavior is kind of confirming that.  I mean, if you're vaccinated, why aren't you going?  If everyone at the party were vaccinated, would that really make a difference?  What other conclusion could your family possibly come to when the vaccinated people are too afraid to come to the party due to covid other than the vaccine is ineffective or you don't want to see them?

Because vaccination is a group project and it always has been. It is not a magical shield that keeps germs from landing on you.

You need enough people to be vaccinated to cut the transmission of the disease. A highly infectious disease like Covid requires a very high vaccination rate to do that.

The transmissibility of Omicron is likely to render the whole discussion moot.  Vaccines don't work well at all to prevent people from getting it (they help with reducing deaths from it though), so it seems very likely that we're all going to be infected.

[HPstache]

We're feeling intense family pressure to "get back to normal" regarding indoor Christmas gatherings.  The accusation -- which has been leveled at us repeatedly -- is that we don't want to see them.  But my brilliant young adult son just pointed out that if these people in the family prioritized the ability to see us over everything else (conspiracy theories and woo, mostly), they would be willing to get vaccinated.  And really, why should their "right" to not have "poison" injected into their bodies outweigh my "right" not to contract Covid in my own home and possibly get long Covid?

I mean seriously, what do you do when you have a close relative who believes the lunar landings were faked and the world is flat?  Or that cannabis cures cancer but the government won't approve it because the health care industry will lose money?  That condensation trails are really government produced chemtrails designed to poison us and make money once again for the health care industry?  Oh, and that vitamin C IVs cure Covid (which they didn't believe was real until they got it) and essential oils can disinfect everything and we'll be safe from Covid?  Plus so many more -- all in one person?

I mean, this person isn't the only one -- both sides of the family are full of Covid deniers, election deniers, birthers, etc.  We're actually lucky that my dad moved across the country, or the holiday pressure would be high despite his refusal to get vaccinated.  But then I'm good at boundaries and at calling him on his bullshit, at least when he tries to make me believe it.  I've gotten very good at saying "I disagree", or "the science doesn't support that".

Is one of their theories that the vaccine doesn't work or isn't effective?  Because in my opinion, your behavior is kind of confirming that.  I mean, if you're vaccinated, why aren't you going?  If everyone at the party were vaccinated, would that really make a difference?  What other conclusion could your family possibly come to when the vaccinated people are too afraid to come to the party due to covid other than the vaccine is ineffective or you don't want to see them?

Because vaccination is a group project and it always has been. It is not a magical shield that keeps germs from landing on you.

You need enough people to be vaccinated to cut the transmission of the disease. A highly infectious disease like Covid requires a very high vaccination rate to do that.

Do we not remember talking about how highly effective the vaccines were at preventing the contraction of covid?  Remember?  85-90+% efficacy in preventing covid?  Yes, vaccines are a group project, but they are most certainly supposed to prevent you from getting covid (or maybe you are just trying to be clever by saying "germs land on you" in a literal sense)... at least that's what the scientists were measuring when it was first being tested and approved.  They were supposed to be a shield and advertised as a shield.

[former player]

We're feeling intense family pressure to "get back to normal" regarding indoor Christmas gatherings.  The accusation -- which has been leveled at us repeatedly -- is that we don't want to see them.  But my brilliant young adult son just pointed out that if these people in the family prioritized the ability to see us over everything else (conspiracy theories and woo, mostly), they would be willing to get vaccinated.  And really, why should their "right" to not have "poison" injected into their bodies outweigh my "right" not to contract Covid in my own home and possibly get long Covid?

I mean seriously, what do you do when you have a close relative who believes the lunar landings were faked and the world is flat?  Or that cannabis cures cancer but the government won't approve it because the health care industry will lose money?  That condensation trails are really government produced chemtrails designed to poison us and make money once again for the health care industry?  Oh, and that vitamin C IVs cure Covid (which they didn't believe was real until they got it) and essential oils can disinfect everything and we'll be safe from Covid?  Plus so many more -- all in one person?

I mean, this person isn't the only one -- both sides of the family are full of Covid deniers, election deniers, birthers, etc.  We're actually lucky that my dad moved across the country, or the holiday pressure would be high despite his refusal to get vaccinated.  But then I'm good at boundaries and at calling him on his bullshit, at least when he tries to make me believe it.  I've gotten very good at saying "I disagree", or "the science doesn't support that".

Is one of their theories that the vaccine doesn't work or isn't effective?  Because in my opinion, your behavior is kind of confirming that.  I mean, if you're vaccinated, why aren't you going?  If everyone at the party were vaccinated, would that really make a difference?  What other conclusion could your family possibly come to when the vaccinated people are too afraid to come to the party due to covid other than the vaccine is ineffective or you don't want to see them?

Because vaccination is a group project and it always has been. It is not a magical shield that keeps germs from landing on you.

You need enough people to be vaccinated to cut the transmission of the disease. A highly infectious disease like Covid requires a very high vaccination rate to do that.

Do we not remember talking about how highly effective the vaccines were at preventing the contraction of covid?  Remember?  85-90+% efficacy in preventing covid?  Yes, vaccines are a group project, but they are most certainly supposed to prevent you from getting covid (or maybe you are just trying to be clever by saying "germs land on you" in a literal sense)... at least that's what the scientists were measuring when it was first being tested and approved.  They were supposed to be a shield and advertised as a shield.

That was before we spent a year with lots of social interaction and high levels of people not vaccinated so the virus did what viruses do in those circumstances and found a way around the vaccine.  But you already knew that, right?

[bryan995]

Omicron seems to be spreading like mad. The waste water testing is very telling for what is to come in the next 3 weeks. A close friend we saw on Sunday contracted it. Multiple folks at work are testing positive. All either 2 dose or 2+1. All with mild symptoms.  The vaccine never promised to 100% protect from any infection, it works to lower your risk of a severe infection/reaction.

Maybe this will be the path to a (biologically) forced herd immunity 😬

[nereo]

Do we not remember talking about how highly effective the vaccines were at preventing the contraction of covid?  Remember?  85-90+% efficacy in preventing covid?  Yes, vaccines are a group project, but they are most certainly supposed to prevent you from getting covid (or maybe you are just trying to be clever by saying "germs land on you" in a literal sense)... at least that's what the scientists were measuring when it was first being tested and approved.  They were supposed to be a shield and advertised as a shield.

That was a year ago, when there was no Delta, no Omicron, and when we had zero data on the mid-term efficacy (i.e. ~12 months) of the vaccines. When we knew almost nothing about whether people could get repeat infections (sadly, that seems pretty common). Before it became obvious just how calcitrant the anti-vaxxers and covid-denialist were and how many people would flout personal responsibility and engage in high-risk pandemic behavior.
We learn, we adapt, we shift our plans.

[Cranky]

Think about it - you have to get infected for the vaccine produced antibodies to fight off the infection. The question was always whether you’d be (a) infectious and/or (b) sick enough to notice it.

[stoaX]

Maybe this will be the path to a (biologically) forced herd immunity 😬

That would be a wonderful silver lining to the cloud of omicron. 

[GodlessCommie]

If you haven't reached the limit on free articles (or have a subscription), The Atlantic has an article that perfectly captures the mood in this thread: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/12/omicron-end-of-pandemic/621089/

TL;DR: we lost the will to fight, and are now determined to "go back to normal" no matter the cost. Not all of us, of course - but a majority large enough to render the resistance of the holdouts like me moot.

[jim555]

I know a 78 year old lady, anti-vaxxer.  It is like watching a car head straight for a wall and she is on the gas.  So tragic.  Horrible outcome upcoming.

[JoJo]

To people who watch the news daily:  skip today's news and watch this guy's take.  He does a daily update and really seems the most balanced, realistic with numbers.  Advocates for vaccines, but also covers side effects (he actually thinks the bad side effects from not aspirating the shots, the shots that end up in veins increase chance of clotting).  Highly recommends keeping vitamin D levels high and other general health recommendations like eating healthy, sleep... something that very few governments are advocating.

Yesterday's update (Dec 21):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDhIL9o3vHg

[nereo]

I know a 78 year old lady, anti-vaxxer.  It is like watching a car head straight for a wall and she is on the gas.  So tragic.  Horrible outcome upcoming.

This accurately describes my aunt (only she is 72), who’s been barred from seeing her ailing 91 father because she refuses the vaccine, won’t wear a mask and believes all sorts of bizarre conspiracy theories. The fact that she is unemployed with not a lot of IRL contact with non family members has probably saved her this far. I’m not optimistic for the coming weeks and months.

[PDXTabs]

Just heard that 2 people I know slightly in my city, who are in their 30s, have the omicron variant (not surprising, 100% omicron in our wastewater).  Bad cold basically, with fever, fatigue, and headache.  One is double vaccinated, one is boostered.  So much for "back to normal", we are in "it spreads like measles" territory.

Isn't a coronavirus that causes cold symptoms the definition of normal?

[PDXTabs]

Who knows? But my sense is that this country is so polarized that most businesses who are anti-vax are proud of it. Like, it’s a marketing chip for them. So I figure most businesses are gonna fall into one of three categories:

1) vocally pro-vax: meaning they require evidence of their employees and employ protocols that vehemently anti-vax people would reject on principle

2) vax status avoidant: refusing to take a stand or ask people, in which case one should assume employees and customers are largely not safe

3) vocally anti-vax/anti-mask: in which case, one should assume no safety at all.

Perhaps, where I live in little Beirut I've noticed businesses transitioning from #1 to #2 WRT their customers. This actually surprised me. My local coffee shop dropped their vaccine mandate for indoor seating after people complained. But some of these people were regulars, so for a small business I can see how that would be a big deal.

[nereo]

Just heard that 2 people I know slightly in my city, who are in their 30s, have the omicron variant (not surprising, 100% omicron in our wastewater).  Bad cold basically, with fever, fatigue, and headache.  One is double vaccinated, one is boostered.  So much for "back to normal", we are in "it spreads like measles" territory.

Isn't a coronavirus that causes cold symptoms the definition of normal?

Only if we completely ignore the scope (number of infected), transmissibility and severity. Corona viruses are very common. Ones that do this kind of damage are novel.

[GuitarStv]

Just heard that 2 people I know slightly in my city, who are in their 30s, have the omicron variant (not surprising, 100% omicron in our wastewater).  Bad cold basically, with fever, fatigue, and headache.  One is double vaccinated, one is boostered.  So much for "back to normal", we are in "it spreads like measles" territory.

Isn't a coronavirus that causes cold symptoms the definition of normal?

Only if we completely ignore the scope (number of infected), transmissibility and severity. Corona viruses are very common. Ones that do this kind of damage are novel.

The vaccine provides little/no protection from getting it so the number of infected is going to be super high this time, but is Omnicron doing significant damage to people who are vaccinated/boostered?

[PDXTabs]

Just heard that 2 people I know slightly in my city, who are in their 30s, have the omicron variant (not surprising, 100% omicron in our wastewater).  Bad cold basically, with fever, fatigue, and headache.  One is double vaccinated, one is boostered.  So much for "back to normal", we are in "it spreads like measles" territory.

Isn't a coronavirus that causes cold symptoms the definition of normal?

Only if we completely ignore the scope (number of infected), transmissibility and severity. Corona viruses are very common. Ones that do this kind of damage are novel.

Obviously, I guess that I shouldn't dismiss the very high transmission rate. But if the severity of a breakthrough omicron case is "bad cold" then sign me up. That's a joke, I obviously hope to be in the 76% that never gets it. But I guess that the math is different for our Canadian friends that probably got a bunch of AZ doses instead of Pfizer/Moderna.

[PDXTabs]

Do we not remember talking about how highly effective the vaccines were at preventing the contraction of covid?  Remember?  85-90+% efficacy in preventing covid?  Yes, vaccines are a group project, but they are most certainly supposed to prevent you from getting covid (or maybe you are just trying to be clever by saying "germs land on you" in a literal sense)... at least that's what the scientists were measuring when it was first being tested and approved.  They were supposed to be a shield and advertised as a shield.

Yes, I also remember when officials were saying that a 50% effective vaccine would be a game changer. And it would have been, in the sense that is half the transmission and hospitalization. But obviously 95% > 50%. While I am personally willing to live my life close to "normal" with three doses of Pfizer that doesn't mean that I expect the same from everyone. Now is not the time to need to go to the hospital. That doesn't even take into account that this is an international forum and many people don't have access to three doses of Pfizer.

[OtherJen]

Just heard that 2 people I know slightly in my city, who are in their 30s, have the omicron variant (not surprising, 100% omicron in our wastewater).  Bad cold basically, with fever, fatigue, and headache.  One is double vaccinated, one is boostered.  So much for "back to normal", we are in "it spreads like measles" territory.

Isn't a coronavirus that causes cold symptoms the definition of normal?

Only if we completely ignore the scope (number of infected), transmissibility and severity. Corona viruses are very common. Ones that do this kind of damage are novel.

The vaccine provides little/no protection from getting it so the number of infected is going to be super high this time, but is Omnicron doing significant damage to people who are vaccinated/boostered?

It's still early days, but it doesn't seem to be causing severe illness at higher rates than Delta in the vaccinated/boosted population. Anecdotally, Brian May of Queen has recently talked (on Instagram) about his experience this month with probable Omicron COVID infection after vax/booster: he, his wife, and 8 others were infected at a party of 40 vaccinated people in London and became symptomatic within 2 days. He's well into his 70s, had a fever and bad head cold symptoms for a few days, and is now on the mend with mild sinus symptoms. His wife, also in her 70s, seems not to have been hit quite as hard.

Of course given how contagious Omicron seems to be, the sheer number of cases will mean an uptick in severe cases, even if the ratio of severe to total cases remains the same or even drops slightly.

[LongtimeLurker]

Moderna is supposedly developing an omicron specific booster. I was going to wait to see if I could grab that right before summer vacation season, but reading about the ineffectiveness of 2 dose vaccines vs omicron, especially if you are 6+ months out made me reconsider.

FDA did approve, today, the anti-viral pills that supposedly are 88% effective at preventing hospitalization, including omicron. So, I think if we manage to get through the next ~2 months, then everything short of travel will probably trend back toward normal.

Also, in regards to not going to family gatherings because others are not vaccinated... The current vaccines have been proven very effective at preventing severe disease/death. They have been proven not all that effective at preventing mild/asymptomatic infection.

IE: If you take reasonable precautions in your everyday life, then being around a handful of non-vaccinated people for a few hours does not up your risk for getting/spreading covid by anything significant enough to worry about. And if they are going anyway... you staying home is not doing anything to stop the spread. Its basically a matter of principle at that point, which if you choose to fight that fight, then I wish you luck, but pragmatically, you are not making much of a difference.

[RetiredAt63]

Just heard that 2 people I know slightly in my city, who are in their 30s, have the omicron variant (not surprising, 100% omicron in our wastewater).  Bad cold basically, with fever, fatigue, and headache.  One is double vaccinated, one is boostered.  So much for "back to normal", we are in "it spreads like measles" territory.

Isn't a coronavirus that causes cold symptoms the definition of normal?

There are coronaviruses that cause colds, and omicron seems to have picked up some cold coronavirus RNA.  But it is still a Covid-19 variant and we don't know what the Covid component will do to people.  We know what other Covid variants have done to vulnerable people.  So assuming it will be "just a cold" doesn't seem like a safe assumption.

I mean, if I were sure it would be "just a cold" I would be out in the stores instead of doing curb-side pickup.  But I'm not, so I'm not.

[GodlessCommie]

Just like a cold if you have three dozes of a vaccine, and not have a compromised immune system. Which is not like a cold at all.

[RetiredAt63]

Just heard that 2 people I know slightly in my city, who are in their 30s, have the omicron variant (not surprising, 100% omicron in our wastewater).  Bad cold basically, with fever, fatigue, and headache.  One is double vaccinated, one is boostered.  So much for "back to normal", we are in "it spreads like measles" territory.

Isn't a coronavirus that causes cold symptoms the definition of normal?

Only if we completely ignore the scope (number of infected), transmissibility and severity. Corona viruses are very common. Ones that do this kind of damage are novel.

Obviously, I guess that I shouldn't dismiss the very high transmission rate. But if the severity of a breakthrough omicron case is "bad cold" then sign me up. That's a joke, I obviously hope to be in the 76% that never gets it. But I guess that the math is different for our Canadian friends that probably got a bunch of AZ doses instead of Pfizer/Moderna.

???  Most of us are Pfizer/Moderna, very few AZ.  I am Pfizer x 3.  I would have had to work at it to get Moderna for my 3rd dose.  AZ is basically not being used much.

[LongtimeLurker]

Just heard that 2 people I know slightly in my city, who are in their 30s, have the omicron variant (not surprising, 100% omicron in our wastewater).  Bad cold basically, with fever, fatigue, and headache.  One is double vaccinated, one is boostered.  So much for "back to normal", we are in "it spreads like measles" territory.

Isn't a coronavirus that causes cold symptoms the definition of normal?

There are coronaviruses that cause colds, and omicron seems to have picked up some cold coronavirus RNA.  But it is still a Covid-19 variant and we don't know what the Covid component will do to people.  We know what other Covid variants have done to vulnerable people.  So assuming it will be "just a cold" doesn't seem like a safe assumption.

I mean, if I were sure it would be "just a cold" I would be out in the stores instead of doing curb-side pickup.  But I'm not, so I'm not.

If you are vaxxed and boosted, then the chance of you ending up with a disease that is more than "just a cold" is extremely low. A 63 year old normally has a 10% risk of hospitalization from COVID. Vaccination lowers the risk 94%, to roughly 0.6%. Or 6 out of 1,000 cases. Which is about twice the rate of the common cold, but lower than the flu.

Not my place to tell you that you should be in the stores not doing curbside pickup, but I do think there has been some excessive fear mongering regarding the risk of COVID.

[LongtimeLurker]

Just like a cold if you have three dozes of a vaccine, and not have a compromised immune system. Which is not like a cold at all.

Depending on age and other risk factors. RSV is currently, right now, more deadly for children than COVID. No one pulls their children out of school for risk of RSV, but we shut down the education system for 6 months because of COVID?

COVID is deadly, but we need to understand that its deadly for a small segment of the population, who should absolutely be protected, but something like elementary schools should continue as normal.

[GuitarStv]

Just heard that 2 people I know slightly in my city, who are in their 30s, have the omicron variant (not surprising, 100% omicron in our wastewater).  Bad cold basically, with fever, fatigue, and headache.  One is double vaccinated, one is boostered.  So much for "back to normal", we are in "it spreads like measles" territory.

Isn't a coronavirus that causes cold symptoms the definition of normal?

Only if we completely ignore the scope (number of infected), transmissibility and severity. Corona viruses are very common. Ones that do this kind of damage are novel.

Obviously, I guess that I shouldn't dismiss the very high transmission rate. But if the severity of a breakthrough omicron case is "bad cold" then sign me up. That's a joke, I obviously hope to be in the 76% that never gets it. But I guess that the math is different for our Canadian friends that probably got a bunch of AZ doses instead of Pfizer/Moderna.

???  Most of us are Pfizer/Moderna, very few AZ.  I am Pfizer x 3.  I would have had to work at it to get Moderna for my 3rd dose.  AZ is basically not being used much.

If you're older or immunocompromised than you've received similar care as the Americans.  The roll-out for everyone else has been pretty slow though.

As a non-immunocompromised 40 year old, I'm one of the 2.3 million Canadians who were given AZ/Covishield as our first dose.  Pfizer second shot.  The earliest opportunity I've been able to to book a booster is early January.  (Not that we know how the boosters work for people who were given an off label vaccine schedule.)  My son has been given his first vaccine dose and is scheduled for his second dose mid-January.

[nereo]

Do we not remember talking about how highly effective the vaccines were at preventing the contraction of covid?  Remember?  85-90+% efficacy in preventing covid?  Yes, vaccines are a group project, but they are most certainly supposed to prevent you from getting covid (or maybe you are just trying to be clever by saying "germs land on you" in a literal sense)... at least that's what the scientists were measuring when it was first being tested and approved.  They were supposed to be a shield and advertised as a shield.

Yes, I also remember when officials were saying that a 50% effective vaccine would be a game changer. And it would have been, in the sense that is half the transmission and hospitalization. But obviously 95% > 50%. While I am personally willing to live my life close to "normal" with three doses of Pfizer that doesn't mean that I expect the same from everyone. Now is not the time to need to go to the hospital. That doesn't even take into account that this is an international forum and many people don't have access to three doses of Pfizer.

For me this comment is very timely - yesterday our mother had an accident and wound up in the hospital needing emergency surgery.  She was scheduled to get her booster today, so by most accounts she's at the low-point in her resistance to Covid, while being in an area of very high transmission.  Her condition meant (non-elective) meant she got treatment, but only one visitor (dad) was allowed to be there, and for a very short time. The idea of either of them being surrounded by a bunch of covid+ patients while in their 70s kinda terrifies me, but there's no good options.

Omicron scares me due to its transmissibility, but thankfully early data indicates its slightly less deadly than Delta. But it's rapid spread and global presence will make future variants more likely.  There are dozens of countries where the vaccination rate is <<50%, including massively-large ones like Indonesia and India and Russia.

[GodlessCommie]

COVID is deadly, but we need to understand that its deadly for a small segment of the population, who should absolutely be protected, but something like elementary schools should continue as normal.

...because no one but children are in schools when they are open. Children are hermetically sealed from the rest of the world, and do not bring germs home, as any parent can attest.

It also helps that the janitorial/cafeteria stuff disproportionally comes from demographics seen as disposable, when seen at all. Remember earlier in this thread, when people posted that they didn't know anyone who died from Covid? Yes, that.

But we've been over it all 30 times already, so I don't even know why bother.

[Paper Chaser]

Just heard that 2 people I know slightly in my city, who are in their 30s, have the omicron variant (not surprising, 100% omicron in our wastewater).  Bad cold basically, with fever, fatigue, and headache.  One is double vaccinated, one is boostered.  So much for "back to normal", we are in "it spreads like measles" territory.

Isn't a coronavirus that causes cold symptoms the definition of normal?

There are coronaviruses that cause colds, and omicron seems to have picked up some cold coronavirus RNA.  But it is still a Covid-19 variant and we don't know what the Covid component will do to people.  We know what other Covid variants have done to vulnerable people.  So assuming it will be "just a cold" doesn't seem like a safe assumption.

I mean, if I were sure it would be "just a cold" I would be out in the stores instead of doing curb-side pickup.  But I'm not, so I'm not.

If you are vaxxed and boosted, then the chance of you ending up with a disease that is more than "just a cold" is extremely low. A 63 year old normally has a 10% risk of hospitalization from COVID. Vaccination lowers the risk 94%, to roughly 0.6%. Or 6 out of 1,000 cases. Which is about twice the rate of the common cold, but lower than the flu.

Not my place to tell you that you should be in the stores not doing curbside pickup, but I do think there has been some excessive fear mongering regarding the risk of COVID.

To add a data point, my state shows 122007 confirmed cases and 3073 deaths in the 60-69 age bracket since the start of the pandemic. That's a 97.5% survival rate (of confirmed cases, not all infections), including the first 10-11 months when things were most dangerous because highly effective vaccines weren't available yet. It's over 93% survival rate in the 70-79 age group. At one point before vaccines I ran the numbers and no demographic had less than 75% survival rate, even without vaccines. And this is a location where vaccination rates are low and most people were pretty much done with the virus several months ago.

Everybody has to make their own choices, but I agree that the risk of anything serious happening to vaccinated individuals is very low in all age groups at this point. Those who are unvaccinated and older generally have worse odds, but even they are more likely to survive than die from a COVID infection.

[Anon-E-Mouze]

If you are vaxxed and boosted, then the chance of you ending up with a disease that is more than "just a cold" is extremely low. A 63 year old normally has a 10% risk of hospitalization from COVID. Vaccination lowers the risk 94%, to roughly 0.6%. Or 6 out of 1,000 cases. Which is about twice the rate of the common cold, but lower than the flu.

Not my place to tell you that you should be in the stores not doing curbside pickup, but I do think there has been some excessive fear mongering regarding the risk of COVID.

We just don't have enough peer-reviewed data yet to make that determination. And we also don't know what the long-term effects of mild cases of Omicron COVID will be.

There IS evidence of some people getting mild cases of other COVID strains who then went on to develop serious psychological and/or neurological complications months later (including some rare cases of people developing life-threatening psychosis).

See https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpsy/article/PIIS2215-0366(21)00084-5/fulltext

That study stated:

"Our study provides evidence for substantial neurological and psychiatric morbidity in the 6 months after COVID-19 infection. Risks were greatest in, but not limited to, patients who had severe COVID-19. This information could help in service planning and identification of research priorities. Complementary study designs, including prospective cohorts, are needed to corroborate and explain these findings."

In light of the evidence showing a high degree of transmissibility and infection, combined with limited information on the medium-term effects of even a mild case of an Omicron strain of COVID, I'm cutting back on non-essential activities that expose me to COVID, and taking extra precautions when engaged in "essential" activities.

[RetiredAt63]

Just heard that 2 people I know slightly in my city, who are in their 30s, have the omicron variant (not surprising, 100% omicron in our wastewater).  Bad cold basically, with fever, fatigue, and headache.  One is double vaccinated, one is boostered.  So much for "back to normal", we are in "it spreads like measles" territory.

Isn't a coronavirus that causes cold symptoms the definition of normal?

There are coronaviruses that cause colds, and omicron seems to have picked up some cold coronavirus RNA.  But it is still a Covid-19 variant and we don't know what the Covid component will do to people.  We know what other Covid variants have done to vulnerable people.  So assuming it will be "just a cold" doesn't seem like a safe assumption.

I mean, if I were sure it would be "just a cold" I would be out in the stores instead of doing curb-side pickup.  But I'm not, so I'm not.

If you are vaxxed and boosted, then the chance of you ending up with a disease that is more than "just a cold" is extremely low. A 63 year old normally has a 10% risk of hospitalization from COVID. Vaccination lowers the risk 94%, to roughly 0.6%. Or 6 out of 1,000 cases. Which is about twice the rate of the common cold, but lower than the flu.

Not my place to tell you that you should be in the stores not doing curbside pickup, but I do think there has been some excessive fear mongering regarding the risk of COVID.

I'm in an at-risk age group (no longer 63), I have so-so lungs as a result of growing up with smokers and working in bad air-quality cities, and have already had bronchitis and pneumonia (many years ago) and mild adult-onset asthma,  so I really don't want to risk lung damage.  Or who knows what kind of long covid omicron will produce?

My last cold (March of 2020) was really nasty.  Even if I caught omicron and it was "just a bad cold", my bad colds are bad.

I basically don't bother to mention all this on the forums, but really when I do my personal risk assessment I have to take everything in my past health history into consideration.  Plus if I visit DD I am also visiting a 6 month old baby.  So what may look low risk to you is being evaluated with more factors than you are seeing.  I'm sure that is true for many of us on here.

[PDXTabs]

???  Most of us are Pfizer/Moderna, very few AZ.  I am Pfizer x 3.  I would have had to work at it to get Moderna for my 3rd dose.  AZ is basically not being used much.

If you're older or immunocompromised than you've received similar care as the Americans.  The roll-out for everyone else has been pretty slow though.

As a non-immunocompromised 40 year old, I'm one of the 2.3 million Canadians who were given AZ/Covishield as our first dose.  Pfizer second shot.  The earliest opportunity I've been able to to book a booster is early January.  (Not that we know how the boosters work for people who were given an off label vaccine schedule.)  My son has been given his first vaccine dose and is scheduled for his second dose mid-January.

Good to know! I honestly keep up more with UK news than Canadian news. I think that they are about 50/50 AZ/Pfizer at this point, with more Pfizer as time goes on.