Author Topic: Where do you stand on "living with Covid", "getting back to normal"  (Read 213413 times)

mm1970

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Re: Where do you stand on "living with Covid", "getting back to normal"
« Reply #1350 on: September 27, 2022, 12:40:56 PM »
during the worst moments I never once thought, "I'm so pissed that I wasted my time getting those useless vaccine shots."  Instead, over and over again I thought, "Thank God I got those vaccine shots."  Because my understanding is the most credible data we have is that vaccination reduces risk of death if you contract Covid.

I find that interesting, could you share some data you read that would corroborate that?

This is not a remotely fringe argument.  That's exactly what the data has shown in study after study:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35302230/
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2795654
https://www.bmj.com/content/378/bmj-2022-071502
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2795326
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(22)00141-4/fulltext
https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2022/03/covid-19-vaccines-prior-infection.html
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2786039
https://pubs.rsna.org/doi/10.1148/radiol.220309
etc.
Thanks, good to read those. I guess some people define science in different ways

What the everliving fuck are you babbling about? What is even happening on this thread right now? Are we letting flat earthers in, too?
I mean, I know how to define science... I wonder what sailinlight does for a living tho...

jinga nation

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Re: Where do you stand on "living with Covid", "getting back to normal"
« Reply #1351 on: September 27, 2022, 07:50:20 PM »
during the worst moments I never once thought, "I'm so pissed that I wasted my time getting those useless vaccine shots."  Instead, over and over again I thought, "Thank God I got those vaccine shots."  Because my understanding is the most credible data we have is that vaccination reduces risk of death if you contract Covid.

I find that interesting, could you share some data you read that would corroborate that?

This is not a remotely fringe argument.  That's exactly what the data has shown in study after study:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35302230/
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2795654
https://www.bmj.com/content/378/bmj-2022-071502
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2795326
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(22)00141-4/fulltext
https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2022/03/covid-19-vaccines-prior-infection.html
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2786039
https://pubs.rsna.org/doi/10.1148/radiol.220309
etc.
Thanks, good to read those. I guess some people define science in different ways

What the everliving fuck are you babbling about? What is even happening on this thread right now? Are we letting flat earthers in, too?
I mean, I know how to define science... I wonder what sailinlight does for a living tho...

Disc Earthers know the world is supported by 4 elephants, who stand on Great A'Tuin.

This thread gone to brown foam with the "define science" and "unvaxxed" posts.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2022, 06:10:03 AM by jinga nation »

RetiredAt63

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Re: Where do you stand on "living with Covid", "getting back to normal"
« Reply #1352 on: September 29, 2022, 06:46:21 PM »
Speaking of the ongoing pandemic . .

I went to a garden club meeting the other night, where they required masks, took attendance for members and got names and emails of visitors, for notification purposes.  They asked anyone with Covid symptoms in the next 5 days to please notify the executive.  A few meetings of other garden clubs ended up being spreader events. The executive of this club decided to be proactive. And yes everyone wore masks.

Freedomin5

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Re: Where do you stand on "living with Covid", "getting back to normal"
« Reply #1353 on: September 30, 2022, 03:33:24 AM »
Meanwhile in China…we are getting daily NAT tests. Mandatory masking in indoor public places. Travel restrictions. You could be randomly locked up for being a close contact of someone who tested positive. Or locked down simply for living in the same building as a close contact of someone who tested positive.

Re: the comment “some people define science in different ways”, my initial thought was, “I understand every word individually but somehow the comprehension is escaping me.” But then I thought more about it, and now I understand exactly what sailinlight means, because I’m living it in China!  You just define the science in the way that suits your purposes.

Like the article I just read recently that forcing perfectly healthy people in cities with no COVID cases to take daily NAT tests SAVES LIVES! According to science and data. Because death rates have not spiked since implementing the daily NAT testing policy. Yeah. So that’s proof that the policy works. Obviously, the scientific data supports the policy. 

And if you don’t get tested regularly, your code will turn red, and then you are endangering public safety, and you will be punished.

See, makes perfect sense.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2022, 03:35:20 AM by Freedomin5 »

Cranky

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Re: Where do you stand on "living with Covid", "getting back to normal"
« Reply #1354 on: September 30, 2022, 08:25:29 AM »
Speaking of the ongoing pandemic . .

I went to a garden club meeting the other night, where they required masks, took attendance for members and got names and emails of visitors, for notification purposes.  They asked anyone with Covid symptoms in the next 5 days to please notify the executive.  A few meetings of other garden clubs ended up being spreader events. The executive of this club decided to be proactive. And yes everyone wore masks.

The Knitting Guild here (and it's a huge group) has just resumed in person meetings and they are requiring vax cards and masking to attend. Lots of older members. I'm sticking with Zoom for that.

The schools made masks optional this year, which means that nobody has worn them, but I'm seeing a sharp uptick in both kids and teachers who are masking. If nothing else, all those colds that didn't go around last year are hitting hard this year.

GuitarStv

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Re: Where do you stand on "living with Covid", "getting back to normal"
« Reply #1355 on: September 30, 2022, 08:48:35 AM »
Speaking of the ongoing pandemic . .

I went to a garden club meeting the other night, where they required masks, took attendance for members and got names and emails of visitors, for notification purposes.  They asked anyone with Covid symptoms in the next 5 days to please notify the executive.  A few meetings of other garden clubs ended up being spreader events. The executive of this club decided to be proactive. And yes everyone wore masks.

It's very rare to see people wearing masks around here in Toronto.  Went to my son's school yesterday for curriculum night.  Including my wife, son, and I there were about 6 people wearing masks in the group of about 200.  Seems like about the numbers I run into in grocery stores.

sonofsven

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Re: Where do you stand on "living with Covid", "getting back to normal"
« Reply #1356 on: September 30, 2022, 09:13:15 AM »
At my mom's church in rural Washington (the church is a log cabin!) they recently had a potluck/super spreader event and eight folks came down with it, out of probably 30-40 parishioners (average age 75 or so). So it's still circulating.

sui generis

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Re: Where do you stand on "living with Covid", "getting back to normal"
« Reply #1357 on: September 30, 2022, 11:17:59 AM »
Having had my Omicron booster last week, I took the opportunity to not wear a mask in the grocery store and pet store for the first time in about a year (since my post-vaxx, pre-Delta ill-fated optimism of Summer 2021).  Ironically, back then I was one of the few that dispensed with the mask quickly (TBF, they are just the cloth ones back then!), and now I'm one of the last to still be wearing one. 

In any case it....didn't feel much different to not be wearing it.  So I guess I might as well keep putting one on?  But then, it feels weird that I'm willing to go out to eat indoors where I will spend a lot of the time without a mask.  Wearing a mask in the grocery store is not inconvenient, but not eating indoors at a restaurant would be inconvenient as the cooler months approach.  Other examples are social gatherings indoors where the ambient noise + mask muffling noise + lack of being able to watch lips definitely can hamper the experience.  I've always operated under the principle that preventing COVID from accumulating in my airway for any number of minutes is a potential benefit, so I shouldn't feel conflicted about these seemingly conflicting actions, but I know it would appear hypocritical.  It definitely keeps me aware that I don't feel "back to normal" but it very much feels like a new normal.

Captain FIRE

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Re: Where do you stand on "living with Covid", "getting back to normal"
« Reply #1358 on: September 30, 2022, 01:24:53 PM »
Wearing a mask in the grocery store is not inconvenient, but not eating indoors at a restaurant would be inconvenient as the cooler months approach. 

Problem solved: Flex your mustachian muscles and cut out dining out!

Michael in ABQ

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Re: Where do you stand on "living with Covid", "getting back to normal"
« Reply #1359 on: October 01, 2022, 11:06:19 AM »
CVOID is now the flu. It's not going away and it's going to constantly mutate making vaccines only a partial solution. Even if most people get an annual COVID shot along with a flu shot, it's not going to stop spreading.

Are those of you masking planning to do so indefinitely? What is the end point when basically everyone has either been vaccinated or infected (or both in many cases)?

GuitarStv

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Re: Where do you stand on "living with Covid", "getting back to normal"
« Reply #1360 on: October 01, 2022, 11:18:56 AM »
Are those of you masking planning to do so indefinitely? What is the end point when basically everyone has either been vaccinated or infected (or both in many cases)?

I think that I'm about to give up on mask wearing actually.

StarBright

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Re: Where do you stand on "living with Covid", "getting back to normal"
« Reply #1361 on: October 01, 2022, 11:33:16 AM »
CVOID is now the flu. It's not going away and it's going to constantly mutate making vaccines only a partial solution. Even if most people get an annual COVID shot along with a flu shot, it's not going to stop spreading.

Are those of you masking planning to do so indefinitely? What is the end point when basically everyone has either been vaccinated or infected (or both in many cases)?

It will probably depend on the mutation and the vaccines? I read this summer that COVID still accounts for 1 in 7 deaths in the US. That would make it like the second or third leading cause of death this year - definitely worse than the flu. I think Omicron is worse than people thought and I have hopes for the novavax booster once it is approved.

I was honestly starting to drop my guard (for me- I'm still way more careful than everyone else I know) and then several friends started relating long covid stories and one friend's spouse had a stroke at 39. One of the people I manage has had to take her 4 year old to the ER for oxygen three times this summer. He had a mild case back in March, but now has lung damage and his immune system is shot - he is catching absolutely everything.

I will still mask and avoid public places for the foreseeable future, because I am privileged enough to do so. My kids have to go to school and they were being made fun of for masking so we let them skip masks and I am just extra careful around them when they have sniffles.

(And I post all of this knowing that I am an extreme outlier, especially for where I live, but I'm not looking to add chronic fatigue or POTS to my autoimmune issues.)
« Last Edit: October 01, 2022, 11:34:56 AM by StarBright »

Shane

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Re: Where do you stand on "living with Covid", "getting back to normal"
« Reply #1362 on: October 01, 2022, 11:38:25 AM »
It's interesting reading reports that some people are still wearing masks. Where we live, 99% of people don't wear masks, even in the most crowded indoor public places. We just literally threw our old cloth masks into the garbage, a few days ago, but we quit regularly carrying them around with us probably 6 months ago. Have been talking about getting a 5th covid shot sometime soon, just to be safe, but not interested, at all, in wearing masks again. The whole 'social distancing' thing has only exacerbated what was already an epidemic of loneliness in the US.

Log

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Re: Where do you stand on "living with Covid", "getting back to normal"
« Reply #1363 on: October 01, 2022, 11:59:42 AM »
CVOID is now the flu. It's not going away and it's going to constantly mutate making vaccines only a partial solution. Even if most people get an annual COVID shot along with a flu shot, it's not going to stop spreading.

Are those of you masking planning to do so indefinitely? What is the end point when basically everyone has either been vaccinated or infected (or both in many cases)?

Pretty much agree with this. I will continue wearing my mask depending on:
1) Requirements. A COVID breakout in an orchestra can lead to fully cancelling a show, which is not great, so some orchestras are still requiring masks backstage.
2) How recently I've had a booster (whether literal vaccine booster or natural immunity from an infection)
3) If there's a wave from a new variant.

This level of caution is only because I'm a freelancer, so catching COVID could mean a significant loss of income. If I had paid sick leave I'd be much less concerned about getting sick. Even if I had paid sick leave, I would probably still be about this cautious indefinitely if I were older or had other risk factors.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2022, 12:27:49 PM by Log »

Vashy

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Re: Where do you stand on "living with Covid", "getting back to normal"
« Reply #1364 on: October 01, 2022, 12:20:36 PM »
Having caught Omicron 4 weeks ago when I attended a mask-less convention, I'll definitely wear masks again in public. Covid isn't fun or "just a cold" and I'd rather not catch it again.

sui generis

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Re: Where do you stand on "living with Covid", "getting back to normal"
« Reply #1365 on: October 01, 2022, 01:00:44 PM »
I've had terrible colds all my life and they were always inconvenient and painful.  Having discovered that masks can help minimize the number of times I suffer that and other diseases like it has been a bit of a revelation.  As I said above, having tried not wearing a mask at the grocery store the other day, and not feeling like the experience was even the teeniest bit different than when I wear one, I'm not sure why I would NOT wear a mask?  Every day I think "maybe I'll catch COVID today" I always end up thinking, "sigh, it would be inconvenient if I did because I've got XYZ happening over the next week that I don't want to miss..."

I won't wear one everywhere and it is actually inconvenient at certain times (as I suggested above, certain parties) and so I probably will eventually catch it as well as more colds.  But wearing it when it makes no difference to my experience and might help me prevent one more cold or COVID?  Why wouldn't I?

wenchsenior

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Re: Where do you stand on "living with Covid", "getting back to normal"
« Reply #1366 on: October 01, 2022, 05:04:42 PM »
CVOID is now the flu. It's not going away and it's going to constantly mutate making vaccines only a partial solution. Even if most people get an annual COVID shot along with a flu shot, it's not going to stop spreading.

Are those of you masking planning to do so indefinitely? What is the end point when basically everyone has either been vaccinated or infected (or both in many cases)?

Pretty much agree with this. I will continue wearing my mask depending on:
1) Requirements. A COVID breakout in an orchestra can lead to fully cancelling a show, which is not great, so some orchestras are still requiring masks backstage.
2) How recently I've had a booster (whether literal vaccine booster or natural immunity from an infection)
3) If there's a wave from a new variant.

This level of caution is only because I'm a freelancer, so catching COVID could mean a significant loss of income. If I had paid sick leave I'd be much less concerned about getting sick. Even if I had paid sick leave, I would probably still be about this cautious indefinitely if I were older or had other risk factors.

Also a freelancer.

I'm planning on masking in most public places indefinitely at this point. Totally worth it. God, I hate getting sick.  Plus, I already have a lot of chronic health problems that I have to deal with; any infection of any sort risks bad consequences for me, and there is no way to predict which infection will cause which bad outcome. Plus, I just despise colds on principle b/c they are so annoying. Regular flu is a horror show that takes weeks to recover from. Stomach bugs are horror shows for a shorter time. Omicron Covid, which I caught last New Year's, was a walk in the park symptom-wise, but who knows what new variants might bring.

And again...even very mild infections sometimes spark incredibly bad autoimmune flares for me (I experienced 'long covid' before there was covid, and it took 9 months to get back to normal...no way am I risking another round of post viral syndrome if I don't have to).

Masking in most public places come with almost no downsides, so why wouldn't I do it? The only place it's truly inconvenient is eating out, which I do only a handful of times every year anyway.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2022, 05:06:45 PM by wenchsenior »

mm1970

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Re: Where do you stand on "living with Covid", "getting back to normal"
« Reply #1367 on: October 01, 2022, 06:09:08 PM »
Are those of you masking planning to do so indefinitely? What is the end point when basically everyone has either been vaccinated or infected (or both in many cases)?

I think that I'm about to give up on mask wearing actually.
I had omicron in July and stopped wearing a mask after that.

However, I still do in crowded indoor places, and will always and forever on airplanes.

SotI

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Re: Where do you stand on "living with Covid", "getting back to normal"
« Reply #1368 on: October 02, 2022, 07:22:40 AM »
Are those of you masking planning to do so indefinitely? What is the end point ...?

For me, it's situational, depending on
  • general incidence level
  • length of period in a given space
  • airing/ventilation
So, no mask when low-to-medium incidence level in airy, well ventilated areas and/or short time-periods. Masking up in higher incidents with longer period of time and less well ventilated space.
 
So, more masking during winter indoorsy exposure to many ppl, no masking in summer, outdoors etc. At least for another year and then re-assess.

BeanCounter

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Re: Where do you stand on "living with Covid", "getting back to normal"
« Reply #1369 on: October 02, 2022, 07:54:47 AM »
Are those of you masking planning to do so indefinitely? What is the end point when basically everyone has either been vaccinated or infected (or both in many cases)?

I think that I'm about to give up on mask wearing actually.

Haven't masked since last January I believe except when asked. Still haven't had COVID as far as I know. It will happen eventually, and I'm not looking forward to it.
I saw a story about who should get the new booster and it said that for healthy individuals under 50, we have reached the point where the additional booster is just as risky as getting covid. This gave me pause since I had such an awful reaction to the last booster. I will likely still get the booster in late November (one year after my last) to hopefully help protect relatives we will gather with for the Holidays.

Kris

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Re: Where do you stand on "living with Covid", "getting back to normal"
« Reply #1370 on: October 02, 2022, 08:41:38 AM »
Are those of you masking planning to do so indefinitely? What is the end point when basically everyone has either been vaccinated or infected (or both in many cases)?

I think that I'm about to give up on mask wearing actually.

Haven't masked since last January I believe except when asked. Still haven't had COVID as far as I know. It will happen eventually, and I'm not looking forward to it.
I saw a story about who should get the new booster and it said that for healthy individuals under 50, we have reached the point where the additional booster is just as risky as getting covid. This gave me pause since I had such an awful reaction to the last booster. I will likely still get the booster in late November (one year after my last) to hopefully help protect relatives we will gather with for the Holidays.

That seems like disinformation to me. Can you please share the link to that story?

Gin1984

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Re: Where do you stand on "living with Covid", "getting back to normal"
« Reply #1371 on: October 02, 2022, 09:36:08 AM »
Are those of you masking planning to do so indefinitely? What is the end point when basically everyone has either been vaccinated or infected (or both in many cases)?

I think that I'm about to give up on mask wearing actually.

Haven't masked since last January I believe except when asked. Still haven't had COVID as far as I know. It will happen eventually, and I'm not looking forward to it.
I saw a story about who should get the new booster and it said that for healthy individuals under 50, we have reached the point where the additional booster is just as risky as getting covid. This gave me pause since I had such an awful reaction to the last booster. I will likely still get the booster in late November (one year after my last) to hopefully help protect relatives we will gather with for the Holidays.
Do you have a link for that?  I have not seen any data saying this.

SunnyDays

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Re: Where do you stand on "living with Covid", "getting back to normal"
« Reply #1372 on: October 02, 2022, 10:35:20 AM »
There are new subvariants developing that are more likely to escape immunity from either prior infection or vaccination, according to recent CBC article.

I recently got my 2nd booster, the bivalent shot, and plan to keep up on them as new ones emerge.

I also wear masks everywhere and plan to continue doing that too.  I'm not afraid of the immediate symptoms of Covid, but of the long term, unpredictable conditions that can develop.  Why risk future illness/disability when a simple mask could possibly prevent them?

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Re: Where do you stand on "living with Covid", "getting back to normal"
« Reply #1373 on: October 02, 2022, 04:27:40 PM »
CVOID is now the flu. It's not going away and it's going to constantly mutate making vaccines only a partial solution. Even if most people get an annual COVID shot along with a flu shot, it's not going to stop spreading.

Are those of you masking planning to do so indefinitely? What is the end point when basically everyone has either been vaccinated or infected (or both in many cases)?

I live with my wife and two kids. We try to follow the CDC guidelines as much as possible which currently includes isolating for five days if you catch COVID. It means if someone in your family is positive everyone else needs to test to see whether they should go around to other planned activities such as school, or find other options. That's mighty inconvenient! My wife caught it a couple weeks ago and I successfully avoided it, but I had to sleep in the basement and do a bit more child care than usual. It's not a fun illness. I've had it once before and would prefer to minimize the number of times I catch it.

The prior idea of wearing masks to protect others has fallen by the wayside. Now it's solely on the individual to take measures to avoid infection if that's something that matters to them. For my part I do mask up when I go to a crowded public space such as a grocery store or airport, where doing so doesn't really affect my ability to do anything I want to do there. For something like sports where I really need full air flow, or a party where it's important to talk to people, I'll go mask-free if healthy. I've recently started carrying a CO2 monitor sometimes to get an idea of how fresh the air is in a place I visit. The higher the CO2 level, the more of other people's exhaled air you're breathing in, and the more viruses that potentially go along with that exhaled air. If it's pretty close to outdoor levels I feel extremely comfortable going without a mask even if the place is pretty crowded.

I expect that I'll always wear a mask if I have respiratory symptoms, because breathing viruses on other people is just rude.

scottish

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Re: Where do you stand on "living with Covid", "getting back to normal"
« Reply #1374 on: October 02, 2022, 05:25:42 PM »
CVOID is now the flu. It's not going away and it's going to constantly mutate making vaccines only a partial solution. Even if most people get an annual COVID shot along with a flu shot, it's not going to stop spreading.

Are those of you masking planning to do so indefinitely? What is the end point when basically everyone has either been vaccinated or infected (or both in many cases)?

I live with my wife and two kids. We try to follow the CDC guidelines as much as possible which currently includes isolating for five days if you catch COVID. It means if someone in your family is positive everyone else needs to test to see whether they should go around to other planned activities such as school, or find other options. That's mighty inconvenient! My wife caught it a couple weeks ago and I successfully avoided it, but I had to sleep in the basement and do a bit more child care than usual. It's not a fun illness. I've had it once before and would prefer to minimize the number of times I catch it.

The prior idea of wearing masks to protect others has fallen by the wayside. Now it's solely on the individual to take measures to avoid infection if that's something that matters to them. For my part I do mask up when I go to a crowded public space such as a grocery store or airport, where doing so doesn't really affect my ability to do anything I want to do there. For something like sports where I really need full air flow, or a party where it's important to talk to people, I'll go mask-free if healthy. I've recently started carrying a CO2 monitor sometimes to get an idea of how fresh the air is in a place I visit. The higher the CO2 level, the more of other people's exhaled air you're breathing in, and the more viruses that potentially go along with that exhaled air. If it's pretty close to outdoor levels I feel extremely comfortable going without a mask even if the place is pretty crowded.

I expect that I'll always wear a mask if I have respiratory symptoms, because breathing viruses on other people is just rude.

Interesting.   Have you found differences in CO2 levels?    And if so, what were the worst places for high CO2 and how big were the differences?

Dee18

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Re: Where do you stand on "living with Covid", "getting back to normal"
« Reply #1375 on: October 02, 2022, 06:03:53 PM »
Seattlecyclone,  Could you provide a link for purchasing your portable CO2 monitor, or is it something related to your work?

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Re: Where do you stand on "living with Covid", "getting back to normal"
« Reply #1376 on: October 02, 2022, 08:11:24 PM »
Interesting.   Have you found differences in CO2 levels?    And if so, what were the worst places for high CO2 and how big were the differences?

Oh yes, it can vary quite a lot. Fresh outside air tends to be a touch over 400 parts per million. Besides virus risk, people start to notice poor air quality and feel more tired above about 1,000 ppm, and other side effects such as headaches can start around 2,000 ppm. Human cognition also suffers measurable deficits at these higher levels.

Someone I follow on Twitter whose risk tolerance seems to be quite a lot lower than mine, and who has done quite a bit of research into the topic, uses the following scale:
<600 ppm: will happily go without a mask.
600-800 ppm: will likely go without a mask, but will be less happy about it.
>800 ppm: will likely wear a mask.

I've been keeping that standard in mind. I will sometimes go maskless at these higher levels, but I'll be mindful that the situation is a bit more risky and will consider limiting my exposure when convenient.

My home office is in my basement and tends to be in the 500-700 range. No particular effort is made to ventilate this area, but it's a pretty large space and the doors to the garage and the outside aren't terribly well sealed. The result seems to be that the CO2 dissipates almost as fast as I exhale it during the day, and by the time I come down the next morning it's pretty close to outdoor levels again.

I spent a weekend with some friends at their family's cabin in the mountains a couple weekends ago. That place is very well-sealed to keep heat in during the winter, but the result is that the CO2 levels climbed quite fast if we kept the windows closed: we're talking levels approaching 2,000 ppm with ten people in the place. One friend, the son-in-law of the cabin's owner, said "so that's why I always feel so sleepy when I come here." That was incidentally where my wife caught COVID. She and I were going without a mask there because there were just three families there, all of whom tend to be on the more cautious side where COVID is concerned, so we decided to let our guard down. Unfortunately one of the families there had visited with their relatives the week before, and found out while we were at the cabin that one of them had tested positive. Once they got home they started experiencing symptoms. We made our kids keep wearing masks inside the cabin because they had a cold, but they avoided the COVID! I avoided it probably because I got the new booster a week before. My wife had a vaccine appointment scheduled for the next week and she got sick. Poor timing!

The curling club I belong to unfortunately has pretty high levels of CO2. They have the HVAC system tuned pretty well to optimize the ice conditions, but the CO2 levels can easily climb above 1,000 PPM if the arena has been full of people curling for a few hours.

I'm currently in the Seattle airport. The air quality here is mostly quite good given how crowded it is! I had some time to kill before my flight (and it was delayed for an hour so I have a bit more time to type this). I spent some time in the south satellite terminal where many of the international airlines operate out of. That one tends to be a bit less crowded and has CO2 levels in the 600-700 range. I then went over to the north satellite terminal (noticeably busier) and the CO2 levels were closer to 900. I'm currently sipping a glass of wine in the Priority Pass lounge in the main terminal and the meter reads 705 ppm. Not bad. The train between the terminals, on the other hand, got up to around 1,500 when it was crowded. Pretty high, but it's also for a short period of time. I'm interested to see what the air looks like on the flight.

Seattlecyclone,  Could you provide a link for purchasing your portable CO2 monitor, or is it something related to your work?

I bought this monitor. It's not cheap, but the Twitter person I mentioned above, and several other folks who are vocally in support of continued vigilance around COVID (and have done way more research into the topic than I) seem to use this one. There are apparently a bunch of cheaper monitors that don't perform very well in validation tests, but this one is the real deal.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2022, 08:14:15 PM by seattlecyclone »

Cranky

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Re: Where do you stand on "living with Covid", "getting back to normal"
« Reply #1377 on: October 03, 2022, 06:19:17 AM »
CVOID is now the flu. It's not going away and it's going to constantly mutate making vaccines only a partial solution. Even if most people get an annual COVID shot along with a flu shot, it's not going to stop spreading.

Are those of you masking planning to do so indefinitely? What is the end point when basically everyone has either been vaccinated or infected (or both in many cases)?

I actually do think that I will continue to wear a mask indoors indefinitely. I'm old enough to be higher risk, and frankly - I just don't like getting sick. Why should I waste a week on a cold or the flu or Covid? It's not just about death....

And wearing a mask doesn't bother me at all. There is absolutely no down side for me.

GuitarStv

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Re: Where do you stand on "living with Covid", "getting back to normal"
« Reply #1378 on: October 03, 2022, 06:51:44 AM »
I actually do think that I will continue to wear a mask indoors indefinitely. I'm old enough to be higher risk, and frankly - I just don't like getting sick. Why should I waste a week on a cold or the flu or Covid? It's not just about death....

One potential reason not to - Does the adult immune system require regular exposure to germs to maintain good working function?  I know that there's been a fair bit of research into children's need for exposure to stuff to learn how to handle disease but am unclear about the need for adults.  Seems reasonable to assume that very strict avoidance of regular germs/disease for an extended time could actually negatively impact health in the long term.

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Re: Where do you stand on "living with Covid", "getting back to normal"
« Reply #1379 on: October 03, 2022, 07:19:05 AM »
I actually do think that I will continue to wear a mask indoors indefinitely. I'm old enough to be higher risk, and frankly - I just don't like getting sick. Why should I waste a week on a cold or the flu or Covid? It's not just about death....

One potential reason not to - Does the adult immune system require regular exposure to germs to maintain good working function?  I know that there's been a fair bit of research into children's need for exposure to stuff to learn how to handle disease but am unclear about the need for adults.  Seems reasonable to assume that very strict avoidance of regular germs/disease for an extended time could actually negatively impact health in the long term.

Also, the cost to society of large numbers of people intentionally masking their facial expressions is not zero.

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Re: Where do you stand on "living with Covid", "getting back to normal"
« Reply #1380 on: October 03, 2022, 07:42:51 AM »
I actually do think that I will continue to wear a mask indoors indefinitely. I'm old enough to be higher risk, and frankly - I just don't like getting sick. Why should I waste a week on a cold or the flu or Covid? It's not just about death....

One potential reason not to - Does the adult immune system require regular exposure to germs to maintain good working function?  I know that there's been a fair bit of research into children's need for exposure to stuff to learn how to handle disease but am unclear about the need for adults.  Seems reasonable to assume that very strict avoidance of regular germs/disease for an extended time could actually negatively impact health in the long term.

Also, the cost to society of large numbers of people intentionally masking their facial expressions is not zero.

I dunno about that.  You can see an awful lot of a person's facial expressions even when they're wearing a mask.  Aside from maybe needing to ask for clarification if you can't hear something that's a little muffled . . . what is the societal cost?

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Re: Where do you stand on "living with Covid", "getting back to normal"
« Reply #1381 on: October 03, 2022, 08:07:15 AM »
I actually do think that I will continue to wear a mask indoors indefinitely. I'm old enough to be higher risk, and frankly - I just don't like getting sick. Why should I waste a week on a cold or the flu or Covid? It's not just about death....

One potential reason not to - Does the adult immune system require regular exposure to germs to maintain good working function?  I know that there's been a fair bit of research into children's need for exposure to stuff to learn how to handle disease but am unclear about the need for adults.  Seems reasonable to assume that very strict avoidance of regular germs/disease for an extended time could actually negatively impact health in the long term.

Also, the cost to society of large numbers of people intentionally masking their facial expressions is not zero.

I dunno about that.  You can see an awful lot of a person's facial expressions even when they're wearing a mask.  Aside from maybe needing to ask for clarification if you can't hear something that's a little muffled . . . what is the societal cost?

Maybe you're better at deciphering masked people's facial expressions than I am, but I often struggle with knowing whether a masked person is trying to be funny, or ironic, or is angry, or whatever. The societal cost, though, is, I think, mostly borne by children. The way kids learn to interpret the world is by observing adults' reactions, and facial expressions are a big part of that. Not knowing, for sure, what the proper response to an individual or an event should be, kids look to their parents or other adult caregivers to help them understand whether they should be in fight or flight mode, or if someone/something is completely safe, and it's okay for them to let their guard down and relax. I'm just guessing, but it's hard to imagine that not being able to fully see adults' facial expressions will in any way help to alleviate already sky-high rates of anxiety and depression, especially among young people growing up during Covid Times.

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Re: Where do you stand on "living with Covid", "getting back to normal"
« Reply #1382 on: October 03, 2022, 08:49:41 AM »
I actually do think that I will continue to wear a mask indoors indefinitely. I'm old enough to be higher risk, and frankly - I just don't like getting sick. Why should I waste a week on a cold or the flu or Covid? It's not just about death....

One potential reason not to - Does the adult immune system require regular exposure to germs to maintain good working function?  I know that there's been a fair bit of research into children's need for exposure to stuff to learn how to handle disease but am unclear about the need for adults.  Seems reasonable to assume that very strict avoidance of regular germs/disease for an extended time could actually negatively impact health in the long term.

Also, the cost to society of large numbers of people intentionally masking their facial expressions is not zero.

I dunno about that.  You can see an awful lot of a person's facial expressions even when they're wearing a mask.  Aside from maybe needing to ask for clarification if you can't hear something that's a little muffled . . . what is the societal cost?

Maybe you're better at deciphering masked people's facial expressions than I am, but I often struggle with knowing whether a masked person is trying to be funny, or ironic, or is angry, or whatever. The societal cost, though, is, I think, mostly borne by children. The way kids learn to interpret the world is by observing adults' reactions, and facial expressions are a big part of that. Not knowing, for sure, what the proper response to an individual or an event should be, kids look to their parents or other adult caregivers to help them understand whether they should be in fight or flight mode, or if someone/something is completely safe, and it's okay for them to let their guard down and relax. I'm just guessing, but it's hard to imagine that not being able to fully see adults' facial expressions will in any way help to alleviate already sky-high rates of anxiety and depression, especially among young people growing up during Covid Times.

Given that so few people are masking now, and that the ones that do are only doing it indoors or only in certain indoor environments, this is a small reduction in the number of observations children will be able to make as they go about their day.

Another way to ask whether it's a real risk or not is to see if certain Asian countries have a generation of children that are socially inept now, since they've been doing more masking for almost 15 years and perhaps longer (I remember this as far back as 2005 when I was traveling).  I haven't heard of this and doubt it is the case, but it's possible I haven't heard.

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Re: Where do you stand on "living with Covid", "getting back to normal"
« Reply #1383 on: October 03, 2022, 09:09:26 AM »
I actually do think that I will continue to wear a mask indoors indefinitely. I'm old enough to be higher risk, and frankly - I just don't like getting sick. Why should I waste a week on a cold or the flu or Covid? It's not just about death....

One potential reason not to - Does the adult immune system require regular exposure to germs to maintain good working function?  I know that there's been a fair bit of research into children's need for exposure to stuff to learn how to handle disease but am unclear about the need for adults.  Seems reasonable to assume that very strict avoidance of regular germs/disease for an extended time could actually negatively impact health in the long term.

Also, the cost to society of large numbers of people intentionally masking their facial expressions is not zero.

I dunno about that.  You can see an awful lot of a person's facial expressions even when they're wearing a mask.  Aside from maybe needing to ask for clarification if you can't hear something that's a little muffled . . . what is the societal cost?

Maybe you're better at deciphering masked people's facial expressions than I am, but I often struggle with knowing whether a masked person is trying to be funny, or ironic, or is angry, or whatever. The societal cost, though, is, I think, mostly borne by children. The way kids learn to interpret the world is by observing adults' reactions, and facial expressions are a big part of that. Not knowing, for sure, what the proper response to an individual or an event should be, kids look to their parents or other adult caregivers to help them understand whether they should be in fight or flight mode, or if someone/something is completely safe, and it's okay for them to let their guard down and relax. I'm just guessing, but it's hard to imagine that not being able to fully see adults' facial expressions will in any way help to alleviate already sky-high rates of anxiety and depression, especially among young people growing up during Covid Times.


I was thinking mostly about adults.  But yeah, totally agree - wearing masks around young kids seems detrimental to regular development.  My suspicion is that most of the anxiety/depression in teens and older kids has to do with the combination of a realization that adults really don't have shit under control and isolation . . . both of which are largely ending/ended at this point.

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Re: Where do you stand on "living with Covid", "getting back to normal"
« Reply #1384 on: October 03, 2022, 09:46:48 AM »
I actually do think that I will continue to wear a mask indoors indefinitely. I'm old enough to be higher risk, and frankly - I just don't like getting sick. Why should I waste a week on a cold or the flu or Covid? It's not just about death....

One potential reason not to - Does the adult immune system require regular exposure to germs to maintain good working function?  I know that there's been a fair bit of research into children's need for exposure to stuff to learn how to handle disease but am unclear about the need for adults.  Seems reasonable to assume that very strict avoidance of regular germs/disease for an extended time could actually negatively impact health in the long term.

We live with a first grader - I'm pretty sure that I'm going to be able to maintain exposure to germs. :-) But I think that for older people in general, our immune systems are as tuned up as they'll ever be.

Cranky

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Re: Where do you stand on "living with Covid", "getting back to normal"
« Reply #1385 on: October 03, 2022, 09:48:55 AM »
And I've been surprised at how easy it has been to "read" people when they are masked. I don't think little kids have much problem with it, either, though I'm sure that there's some variation.

How do kids do with that in societies where women traditionally cover their faces?

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Re: Where do you stand on "living with Covid", "getting back to normal"
« Reply #1386 on: October 03, 2022, 10:32:38 AM »
And I've been surprised at how easy it has been to "read" people when they are masked. I don't think little kids have much problem with it, either, though I'm sure that there's some variation.

How do kids do with that in societies where women traditionally cover their faces?

And I have been surprised at how difficult it has been to "read" people when they are masked. But, it likely is a side "benefit" of not worrying too much in general what people think, but I do like to file how people seemed to be projecting, even if it didn't matter much.

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Re: Where do you stand on "living with Covid", "getting back to normal"
« Reply #1387 on: October 03, 2022, 10:54:26 AM »
There are new subvariants developing that are more likely to escape immunity from either prior infection or vaccination, according to recent CBC article.

I recently got my 2nd booster, the bivalent shot, and plan to keep up on them as new ones emerge.

I also wear masks everywhere and plan to continue doing that too.  I'm not afraid of the immediate symptoms of Covid, but of the long term, unpredictable conditions that can develop.  Why risk future illness/disability when a simple mask could possibly prevent them?
One of my friends hasn't had COVID yet.  She kind of rolls her eyes when we talk about it - she takes a lot of herbal things (is also vaccinated), but doesn't think it's a big deal. 
OTOH she complains that her kids don't have real jobs yet (they are in their 20s and 30s), but one of them is still suffering from long COVID fatigue.  It's an interesting bit of disconnect.  Or maybe it's not?  But we talked about it again last week, and her two statements were literally a few minutes apart.

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Re: Where do you stand on "living with Covid", "getting back to normal"
« Reply #1388 on: October 03, 2022, 11:20:28 AM »
DW and I avoided COVID until this week. Our two offspring caught it months ago and quickly recovered. We're all vaccinated. We plan to get the booster and flu shots next week.

DW was working with a community group and someone there had it (untested). Now five people including DW have it. She debated masking up until she caught it.

I'll test tomorrow per CDC guidance, am at work today but staying in my office. I wear a mask should anyone come around and I've asked everyone that stops by to talk from the hallway. (Two people so far)

DW was pretty disappointed to catch it as we've been very careful though we've not been masking except when in large groups. Hardly anyone masks here since spring. (red state)

I feel good (98-99%) but yesterday I could say my immune system was a little off. Probably just dealing with typical seasonal allergies and the suggestion that I could catch COVID from DW.

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Re: Where do you stand on "living with Covid", "getting back to normal"
« Reply #1389 on: October 03, 2022, 01:22:44 PM »
@Just Joe I don't understand - your wife has COVID and you feel off, but you still went in to your office?? Ventilation systems as we've learned aren't great, so if you aren't wearing an N95 all the time (sounds like no mask unless someone stops by) you could still be passing it on to others, particularly as you haven't tested yourself yet.

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Re: Where do you stand on "living with Covid", "getting back to normal"
« Reply #1390 on: October 04, 2022, 08:59:03 AM »
@Just Joe I don't understand - your wife has COVID and you feel off, but you still went in to your office?? Ventilation systems as we've learned aren't great, so if you aren't wearing an N95 all the time (sounds like no mask unless someone stops by) you could still be passing it on to others, particularly as you haven't tested yourself yet.

My employer told me I needed to be there so I self isolated myself in my office and I left home a couple hours early.

Am home today. Symptoms are similar. Pretty mild - sore throat and an occasional cough. Will test late this afternoon.

I have something, not sure if COVID. Likely COVID but I've had these kinds of symptoms most years even before COVID aka a mild cold...

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Re: Where do you stand on "living with Covid", "getting back to normal"
« Reply #1391 on: October 04, 2022, 09:28:32 AM »
@Just Joe I don't understand - your wife has COVID and you feel off, but you still went in to your office?? Ventilation systems as we've learned aren't great, so if you aren't wearing an N95 all the time (sounds like no mask unless someone stops by) you could still be passing it on to others, particularly as you haven't tested yourself yet.

My employer told me I needed to be there so I self isolated myself in my office and I left home a couple hours early.

Am home today. Symptoms are similar. Pretty mild - sore throat and an occasional cough. Will test late this afternoon.

I have something, not sure if COVID. Likely COVID but I've had these kinds of symptoms most years even before COVID aka a mild cold...
I didn't get a positive test until the day I could add "fever" to the list of symptoms - otherwise started a lot like yours. 2-3 days after an exposure a cough that wasn't too bad but didn't go away, then 2 days after that I was sick. Actually tested negative in the morning - wasn't feeling well so figured I'd check before visiting with family (day before we were supposed to fly back home). Then still not feeling well so took temp and had a low fever. Then a clearly positive covid test.

If it is COVID, hopefully you have a better time than I did - it wasn't bad in terms of being sick, but I felt a need to really isolate pretty hard until I had a negative test which took over 2 weeks from the positive test, almost 3 from symptoms (used the rapid at-home tests where a false-negative is far more likely than a false-positive too).

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Re: Where do you stand on "living with Covid", "getting back to normal"
« Reply #1392 on: October 04, 2022, 09:23:18 PM »
Thanks for the background. I tested negative today here at the house. Now my symptoms include chills and a low grade temperature. Guess DW and I will binge watch alot of TV for a few days. We sat in the sun this afternoon and shuffled around the outside of the house a bit. The sun felt good and chased off the chills for a bit. 

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Re: Where do you stand on "living with Covid", "getting back to normal"
« Reply #1393 on: October 06, 2022, 09:54:02 AM »
It took my husband a few days to binax positive after symptoms.  I PCR tested positive day of symptoms and binaxed positive the next day (I might have the PCR day, I just didn't bother.  Got curious to see if it'd pick it up though.)

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Re: Where do you stand on "living with Covid", "getting back to normal"
« Reply #1394 on: October 07, 2022, 05:27:19 AM »
Meanwhile, we are on alert for possibly being locked down (again), because one person who lives two streets down from our apartment complex tested positive. At this point, I’d happily trade places with any one of you. I’d absolutely rather stay home for a week nursing flu-like symptoms than have to deal with the disruption of a hard lockdown from anywhere between 2 to 14+ days even though I don’t have COVID (yes, here we are locking up healthy people who don’t have COVID).

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Re: Where do you stand on "living with Covid", "getting back to normal"
« Reply #1395 on: October 07, 2022, 07:42:15 AM »
I'm back at work. Feeling pretty good except a cough. Think the timing was suspicious considering DW's positive test but I never tested positive.

I'll self-isolating in my office and masking today. If I take a turn for the worse (chills, etc returns) I'm going home. I need to be here b/c my coworker isn't here (their family member is having a non-COVID health problem) and somebody needs to mind our tasks.

DW still tests positive. Feels pretty good so at least she is on the mend. Did you know the CDC says it is okay to return to daily life despite testing positive if the symptoms are subsiding? With a mask of course.

Freedom5 - very glad you are safe but no, I don't want to experience the Chinese lockdowns. I wouldn't mind lockdown at our house where at least I could entertain myself our in my shop. 14 days in an apartment does not sound appealing. How do the people with dogs deal with walking them so they can relieve themselves?

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Michael in ABQ

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Re: Where do you stand on "living with Covid", "getting back to normal"
« Reply #1397 on: October 07, 2022, 09:01:30 AM »
I saw a guy at Costco the other day wearing a full gas mask. Completely covering his face with respirators built-in - just like the kind I'm issued in the Army.

He looked to be in his 30s and in reasonably good health (i.e. not morbidly obese). Maybe he's severely immune compromised and can't get vaccinated but in a place like Costco where the aisles are 10 feet wide and it's a 150,000 square foot warehouse it's not exactly high risk for catching COVID. I wanted to take a picture because it just seems so absurd at this point.

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Re: Where do you stand on "living with Covid", "getting back to normal"
« Reply #1398 on: October 07, 2022, 09:46:13 AM »
How do the people with dogs deal with walking them so they can relieve themselves?

https://www.wionews.com/world/watch-bags-full-of-cats-and-dogs-seen-in-china-as-authorities-kill-pets-of-covid-positive-owners-472239

People get creative. If you’re locked down, you have to get a PCR once a day or once every other day, so you take your dog down then and take the *scenic route*/accidentally on purpose get lost on the way to the testing point within your compound. You can usually also take down your own trash, so you put your trash in small bags and go down multiple times a day around the time when your dog needs a walk. You can typically also pick up grocery deliveries from the front gate, so that’s another time to take your dog out.

If you have a positive case in your building and can’t leave your apartment at all, then some people have put a fake grass patch on their balcony. Or they sneak their dog down at night under the cover of darkness. And if the security guard yells at them, they yell right back. Sometimes whoever yells the loudest, wins.

Yeah, and unfortunately, sometimes the pets get killed or abandoned. Especially if the owner gets taken away to a quarantration camp, or more officially known as centralized quarantine, not necessarily because they have COVID, but because they were deemed a close contact of someone who tested positive and might possibly have been infected, so they need to be locked up for weeks until they can prove they’re not infected.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2022, 09:55:51 AM by Freedomin5 »

farmecologist

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Re: Where do you stand on "living with Covid", "getting back to normal"
« Reply #1399 on: October 07, 2022, 10:05:12 AM »
I saw a guy at Costco the other day wearing a full gas mask. Completely covering his face with respirators built-in - just like the kind I'm issued in the Army.

He looked to be in his 30s and in reasonably good health (i.e. not morbidly obese). Maybe he's severely immune compromised and can't get vaccinated but in a place like Costco where the aisles are 10 feet wide and it's a 150,000 square foot warehouse it's not exactly high risk for catching COVID. I wanted to take a picture because it just seems so absurd at this point.

That's obviously overkill.  However, the world is still a damned scary place for the immunocompromised.  My wife is one of them. We are not shut-ins....but we think very carefully about where to go and the 'chances' we are willing to take.  And we do wear masks in crowded indoor areas ( but not gas masks...haha ).  Any yes, neither of us have had it yet...for now.  And it looks like there has been an extreme uptick in our area...right on schedule for the fall/winter season.

 
« Last Edit: October 07, 2022, 10:07:44 AM by farmecologist »