Where do you stand on "living with Covid", "getting back to normal"

[Arbitrage]

Local and statewide hospitalizations have dropped 80% in the last couple weeks. We're still a bit above the thresholds I set for myself back in the summer, but with omicron and middling vaccination rates, we maybe not get back to those very low levels. Until we get another local spike, we're going back to normal life (while still taking low-effort/low-cost precautions).

SO is tempted to keep her students masking forever though. Those germ factories have gotten us sick several times a year until covid and it's been nice to not deal with that.

Yes, freedom from colds and other ailments has been a silver lining to all of this.  We just had a cold go through the house after some in-home guests graced us with it (2 of 4 got it; I mostly fought it off), and it definitely helped remind us that even a very mild illness can be quite unpleasant.

I do think that the attitude that 'most people have had it' is still quite inaccurate when it comes to covid.  Sure, I'll buy in to the argument that the official ~80M cases in the USA is an undercount, but while 1 in 4 might be too low, anything between 1/4 and 1/3 jives just fine with the circles I travel in.  Sure, it's anecdotal, but so is everyone's experience that's not relying upon official statistics.  I suppose we could all have had asymptomatic cases that didn't infect anyone else, or only gave other people asymptomatic cases.  Starts to strain credulity, though.

[LaineyAZ]

I'm curious to see how it's going with the employers mandating a return to the office?    or are they still allowing Work From Home, or a hybrid of both?
Early in the pandemic there were lots of people declaring they'd never return to the office but now that it's happening, are they really quitting and changing jobs for that reason?

I'm aware of some big companies here saying employees need to be in the office by May or June, but that they are allowing supervisors some leeway in determining what's best for individuals, if possible.  To me that seems reasonable. 

[GuitarStv]

"We need asses in seats and all the gas wasted to do it.  Whether or not there's a point to people being in the office!  Fuck you environment, fuck you saving money, and fuck you employee happiness.  Asses in seats are the only measure of work we're capable of determining!"

[HPstache]

Local and statewide hospitalizations have dropped 80% in the last couple weeks. We're still a bit above the thresholds I set for myself back in the summer, but with omicron and middling vaccination rates, we maybe not get back to those very low levels. Until we get another local spike, we're going back to normal life (while still taking low-effort/low-cost precautions).

SO is tempted to keep her students masking forever though. Those germ factories have gotten us sick several times a year until covid and it's been nice to not deal with that.

Yes, freedom from colds and other ailments has been a silver lining to all of this.  We just had a cold go through the house after some in-home guests graced us with it (2 of 4 got it; I mostly fought it off), and it definitely helped remind us that even a very mild illness can be quite unpleasant.

I do think that the attitude that 'most people have had it' is still quite inaccurate when it comes to covid.  Sure, I'll buy in to the argument that the official ~80M cases in the USA is an undercount, but while 1 in 4 might be too low, anything between 1/4 and 1/3 jives just fine with the circles I travel in.  Sure, it's anecdotal, but so is everyone's experience that's not relying upon official statistics.  I suppose we could all have had asymptomatic cases that didn't infect anyone else, or only gave other people asymptomatic cases.  Starts to strain credulity, though.

You probably just had Covid

[mizzourah2006]

Local and statewide hospitalizations have dropped 80% in the last couple weeks. We're still a bit above the thresholds I set for myself back in the summer, but with omicron and middling vaccination rates, we maybe not get back to those very low levels. Until we get another local spike, we're going back to normal life (while still taking low-effort/low-cost precautions).

SO is tempted to keep her students masking forever though. Those germ factories have gotten us sick several times a year until covid and it's been nice to not deal with that.

Yes, freedom from colds and other ailments has been a silver lining to all of this.  We just had a cold go through the house after some in-home guests graced us with it (2 of 4 got it; I mostly fought it off), and it definitely helped remind us that even a very mild illness can be quite unpleasant.

I do think that the attitude that 'most people have had it' is still quite inaccurate when it comes to covid.  Sure, I'll buy in to the argument that the official ~80M cases in the USA is an undercount, but while 1 in 4 might be too low, anything between 1/4 and 1/3 jives just fine with the circles I travel in.  Sure, it's anecdotal, but so is everyone's experience that's not relying upon official statistics.  I suppose we could all have had asymptomatic cases that didn't infect anyone else, or only gave other people asymptomatic cases.  Starts to strain credulity, though.

Curious how old you are and how old your circle is. Before December I would have said the exact same thing. After January Basically everyone I know had had it. People I know the most tend to be mid 30s and most have young children as well. I'd say of my group that I talk to regularly (probably 40-50) about 75%+ have had it at this point. I don't know anyone that isn't vaccinated that's older than 12. But older people like my parents that are retired tend to be being a bit more careful. My mom hasn't had it yet. My dad and his wife just got it in early January though. So, I could see if the people you hang out with are 50+ and are knowledge workers that the amount of people that have had it in your circle could be low.

[EchoStache]

My opinion is that far more Americans have had Covid than is known or reported, but I do think it also varies by age group.  As mentioned, much of the older population does tend to be more cautious and more isolated.  On the other hand, I suspect the number of younger folks who've had it is FAR greater than reported.  I helped clear college athletes to resume training during the first year or so of the pandemic.  Almost all of these athletes who tested positive, quarantined, then had to be cleared after their ten day isolation, had absolutely no idea they had Covid.  They were simply exposed to one of the few athletes that did have symptoms.  As a result, most of the team would have to be tested and ended up being positive.  So at least in the younger population, I'd venture to guess we are much closer to 90% infection rate than even 50% at some point over the previous two years.

[HPstache]

My opinion is that far more Americans have had Covid than is known or reported, but I do think it also varies by age group.  As mentioned, much of the older population does tend to be more cautious and more isolated.  On the other hand, I suspect the number of younger folks who've had it is FAR greater than reported.  I helped clear college athletes to resume training during the first year or so of the pandemic.  Almost all of these athletes who tested positive, quarantined, then had to be cleared after their ten day isolation, had absolutely no idea they had Covid.  They were simply exposed to one of the few athletes that did have symptoms.  As a result, most of the team would have to be tested and ended up being positive.  So at least in the younger population, I'd venture to guess we are much closer to 90% infection rate than even 50% at some point over the previous two years.

Yes.  There was a time in this most recent Omicron wave wherein half of the 30 people who showed up to the local ER one day for other things found out they had Covid upon arrival and had no idea.

[Captain FIRE]

I'm curious to see how it's going with the employers mandating a return to the office?    or are they still allowing Work From Home, or a hybrid of both?
Early in the pandemic there were lots of people declaring they'd never return to the office but now that it's happening, are they really quitting and changing jobs for that reason?

I'm aware of some big companies here saying employees need to be in the office by May or June, but that they are allowing supervisors some leeway in determining what's best for individuals, if possible.  To me that seems reasonable.

I'm required to be in the office every day even though the parent entity requires my entity to have a WFH policy.  (The head has just ignored this requirement.)  Granted it's not just due to the WFH issue, but I am starting my job hunt in April (can't leave until mid-July) and will target hybrid jobs.  I haven't seen any remote only jobs that I've been interested in yet.

My husband is required to be back in the office at least part-time starting in March.  This is frustrating because 1) there is no point - none of his people are in this office (they are in another office), 2) they are removing the mask mandate at the same time, 3) our daughter isn't eligible for vaccination yet, and 4) our daycare is not permitted by the state to comingle classes so they are only open 9 hours instead of the 11 they were previously (we had them in for 10 hours) so it'll be a logistical challenge that didn't exist pre-pandemic.

[Captain FIRE]

Local and statewide hospitalizations have dropped 80% in the last couple weeks. We're still a bit above the thresholds I set for myself back in the summer, but with omicron and middling vaccination rates, we maybe not get back to those very low levels. Until we get another local spike, we're going back to normal life (while still taking low-effort/low-cost precautions).

SO is tempted to keep her students masking forever though. Those germ factories have gotten us sick several times a year until covid and it's been nice to not deal with that.

Yes, freedom from colds and other ailments has been a silver lining to all of this.  We just had a cold go through the house after some in-home guests graced us with it (2 of 4 got it; I mostly fought it off), and it definitely helped remind us that even a very mild illness can be quite unpleasant.

I do think that the attitude that 'most people have had it' is still quite inaccurate when it comes to covid.  Sure, I'll buy in to the argument that the official ~80M cases in the USA is an undercount, but while 1 in 4 might be too low, anything between 1/4 and 1/3 jives just fine with the circles I travel in.  Sure, it's anecdotal, but so is everyone's experience that's not relying upon official statistics.  I suppose we could all have had asymptomatic cases that didn't infect anyone else, or only gave other people asymptomatic cases.  Starts to strain credulity, though.

Curious how old you are and how old your circle is. Before December I would have said the exact same thing. After January Basically everyone I know had had it. People I know the most tend to be mid 30s and most have young children as well. I'd say of my group that I talk to regularly (probably 40-50) about 75%+ have had it at this point. I don't know anyone that isn't vaccinated that's older than 12. But older people like my parents that are retired tend to be being a bit more careful. My mom hasn't had it yet. My dad and his wife just got it in early January though. So, I could see if the people you hang out with are 50+ and are knowledge workers that the amount of people that have had it in your circle could be low.

And some colds really are just colds...  My work has required me to PCR test every 3 days since December, so I know I had an actual cold and not COVID.

[Arbitrage]

You probably just had Covid

Probably not.  3 negative tests say otherwise.

[Arbitrage]

Curious how old you are and how old your circle is. Before December I would have said the exact same thing. After January Basically everyone I know had had it. People I know the most tend to be mid 30s and most have young children as well. I'd say of my group that I talk to regularly (probably 40-50) about 75%+ have had it at this point. I don't know anyone that isn't vaccinated that's older than 12. But older people like my parents that are retired tend to be being a bit more careful. My mom hasn't had it yet. My dad and his wife just got it in early January though. So, I could see if the people you hang out with are 50+ and are knowledge workers that the amount of people that have had it in your circle could be low.

It runs the gamut.  40s with elementary/middle school kids is where we and most of our closer friends are, but have plenty of friends in 30s, cousins and siblings in 20s-50s, kids of all ages, grandparents, aunts/uncles, whatever.  Coworkers from 30s-60s.  The number in my circle (of people whom I'm confident would provide information) is about a quarter, but I think it's a more careful cohort in general than the regular populace, a few outliers notwithstanding. 

[mizzourah2006]

Local and statewide hospitalizations have dropped 80% in the last couple weeks. We're still a bit above the thresholds I set for myself back in the summer, but with omicron and middling vaccination rates, we maybe not get back to those very low levels. Until we get another local spike, we're going back to normal life (while still taking low-effort/low-cost precautions).

SO is tempted to keep her students masking forever though. Those germ factories have gotten us sick several times a year until covid and it's been nice to not deal with that.

Yes, freedom from colds and other ailments has been a silver lining to all of this.  We just had a cold go through the house after some in-home guests graced us with it (2 of 4 got it; I mostly fought it off), and it definitely helped remind us that even a very mild illness can be quite unpleasant.

I do think that the attitude that 'most people have had it' is still quite inaccurate when it comes to covid.  Sure, I'll buy in to the argument that the official ~80M cases in the USA is an undercount, but while 1 in 4 might be too low, anything between 1/4 and 1/3 jives just fine with the circles I travel in.  Sure, it's anecdotal, but so is everyone's experience that's not relying upon official statistics.  I suppose we could all have had asymptomatic cases that didn't infect anyone else, or only gave other people asymptomatic cases.  Starts to strain credulity, though.

Curious how old you are and how old your circle is. Before December I would have said the exact same thing. After January Basically everyone I know had had it. People I know the most tend to be mid 30s and most have young children as well. I'd say of my group that I talk to regularly (probably 40-50) about 75%+ have had it at this point. I don't know anyone that isn't vaccinated that's older than 12. But older people like my parents that are retired tend to be being a bit more careful. My mom hasn't had it yet. My dad and his wife just got it in early January though. So, I could see if the people you hang out with are 50+ and are knowledge workers that the amount of people that have had it in your circle could be low.

And some colds really are just colds...  My work has required me to PCR test every 3 days since December, so I know I had an actual cold and not COVID.

I'm not denying that. Are you implying all the people that I know that "had" Covid just had colds? All I was asking was the age and behaviors of the people in the person's circle. I have a couple families in my circle that basically haven't left the house for 2 years outside of sending their kids to school and they even pulled their kids out of school from mid December to mid February. They haven't had Covid yet, so if that was the common behaviors of all my friends I would definitely believe it was uncommon to get it. But the majority of my friends work outside the home, have kids engaged in extra-curriculurs and visited family around Christmas. Almost all of them got Covid over the past 3 months. Even the people in my family that were the safest because of being immunocompromised (recovering from Leukemia, and a kidney transplant) got it.

I guess I also just ignored my workplace. But when I described having to have my son home for 15 days for quarantine the people I work with said almost everyone we work with that they had talked to had had it too and we all even work remotely, but most of my company is between the ages of ~25-50.

I'm flying to NYC this weekend to hang out with my friends and catch some hockey games so wish me luck :)

[Watchmaker]

I'm curious to see how it's going with the employers mandating a return to the office?    or are they still allowing Work From Home, or a hybrid of both?
Early in the pandemic there were lots of people declaring they'd never return to the office but now that it's happening, are they really quitting and changing jobs for that reason?

I'm aware of some big companies here saying employees need to be in the office by May or June, but that they are allowing supervisors some leeway in determining what's best for individuals, if possible.  To me that seems reasonable.

I'm required to be in the office every day even though the parent entity requires my entity to have a WFH policy.  (The head has just ignored this requirement.)  Granted it's not just due to the WFH issue, but I am starting my job hunt in April (can't leave until mid-July) and will target hybrid jobs.  I haven't seen any remote only jobs that I've been interested in yet.

My husband is required to be back in the office at least part-time starting in March.  This is frustrating because 1) there is no point - none of his people are in this office (they are in another office), 2) they are removing the mask mandate at the same time, 3) our daughter isn't eligible for vaccination yet, and 4) our daycare is not permitted by the state to comingle classes so they are only open 9 hours instead of the 11 they were previously (we had them in for 10 hours) so it'll be a logistical challenge that didn't exist pre-pandemic.

Other people in my office are WFH a day here and there due to weather or other things, which is a lot more WFH than they were doing before covid, but I'm the only one still primarily WFH. If they required me to go back to the office full time, it would probably accelerate my retirement, but no signs of that happening.

[Captain FIRE]

@mizzourah2006 Not everything is a dig.  All I was saying is that sometimes colds are undiagnosed COVID - but sometimes, they are not.

[Paper Chaser]

I'm curious to see how it's going with the employers mandating a return to the office?    or are they still allowing Work From Home, or a hybrid of both?
Early in the pandemic there were lots of people declaring they'd never return to the office but now that it's happening, are they really quitting and changing jobs for that reason?

I'm aware of some big companies here saying employees need to be in the office by May or June, but that they are allowing supervisors some leeway in determining what's best for individuals, if possible.  To me that seems reasonable.

My employer will be 'safely and flexibly' reopening offices to non-essential workers in early April. The email they sent used a lot of verbiage about flexibility, but it also said they couldn't wait 'to feel that energy in the office once again'.

[mm1970]

I'm back in the office today (we are hybrid forever I think), and no masks required!  Though about 1/2 are still wearing them. 
I took my DS2 to the pool this weekend (indoors).

I'd say 80% back to normal.  I still wear masks in grocery stores and crowded places.

[SunnyDays]

I really hope that Covid rates are way higher than we think.  That will make it safer for those of us who haven’t had it yet, as long as we’re careful.  Restrictions are set to expire here on March 15, although from what I’ve heard, lots of people aren’t comfortable with letting their guard down yet.

Made a Costco run yesterday in an area that tends to be more affluent white people and it was surprising how many were wearing N95s.  Way more than I’ve seen anywhere else.  So I guess that bodes well for that store at least.

[Cranky]

Mandate expired here yesterday. I’ve been to Costco, exercise class, Aldi, bigger grocery  store, and church, and about 95% of people were still wearing masks.

[By the River]

"We need asses in seats and all the gas wasted to do it.  Whether or not there's a point to people being in the office!  Fuck you environment, fuck you saving money, and fuck you employee happiness.  Asses in seats are the only measure of work we're capable of determining!"

Wow, didn't realize we worked for the same company.    We go back full-time to the office on Monday.  We have been hybrid for most of the last year. 

[nereo]

The CDC estimates that currently 43% of Americans have had Covid based on the infection-induced antibodies present in blood tests of 73,000 people conducted at the end of January*.  A slight majority of children have had Covid, while most over the age of 50 have not.

https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#national-lab

The data is publicly available.

*seems the data has been extrapolated forward to arrive at the present 43.3%

[Arbitrage]

The CDC estimates that currently 43% of Americans have had Covid based on the infection-induced antibodies present in blood tests of 73,000 people conducted at the end of January*.  A slight majority of children have had Covid, while most over the age of 50 have not.

https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#national-lab

The data is publicly available.

*seems the data has been extrapolated forward to arrive at the present 43.3%

I'd buy that, especially given the predilections of the demographics I have less contact with.  Unfortunately, earlier strains provided very little protection against infection with current strains, but probably give some protection against severe infection.  Still not herd immunity even when combined with vaccinations, but perhaps 'herd protection' sufficient to avoid more catastrophic death numbers and overwhelming our medical system yet again.

[HPstache]

You probably just had Covid

Probably not.  3 negative tests say otherwise.

So did we.  But 1 of the 5 in the family tested positive, safe to assume everyone else with the exact same symptoms had it... but never tested +

[mm1970]

You probably just had Covid

Probably not.  3 negative tests say otherwise.

So did we.  But 1 of the 5 in the family tested positive, safe to assume everyone else with the exact same symptoms had it... but never tested +

This is fascinating.  PCR tests?  Rapid antigen tests?

I ask because I know people IRL who had the same experience...some didn't test positive and others did...a combination of PCR and antigen tests.  Weird.

[jrhampt]

Most everyone I know who has kids in the school system got covid in the omicron wave.  But almost all of us without children managed to avoid it.  My social circle is mostly 40+ and a lot of us telecommute.  I was at a table the other night with 6 people, 3 couples ranging in age from 30s to 60s, and none of us have had covid.  But I also live in a highly vaccinated state, all of my friends got their boosters, and mask wearing was pretty universal during the omicron wave.  And I didn't see anyone other than my husband for 5-6 weeks since I work from home and don't have to have any exposure.  He did have a lot of less careful co-workers, mostly with kids, who got it.

Now that our wave has receded, our hospitals are down to August 2021 levels (which were very low here - we didn't have much of a delta wave), and our positivity rate is around 2%, I am taking advantage of the lull to resume a social life, go to the gym, restaurants, etc.  I'm still wearing a mask in grocery stores because it's easy and risk is cumulative - it's not all or nothing.  And I'm holding off on travel to Europe because they're still pretty omicroned up...which is curious because I thought they had omicron before we did in the US.

[kanga1622]

You probably just had Covid

Probably not.  3 negative tests say otherwise.

So did we.  But 1 of the 5 in the family tested positive, safe to assume everyone else with the exact same symptoms had it... but never tested +

This is fascinating.  PCR tests?  Rapid antigen tests?

I ask because I know people IRL who had the same experience...some didn't test positive and others did...a combination of PCR and antigen tests.  Weird.

I had a very delayed positive test. DH tested positive on a Friday, kids tested positive the following Monday, and I didn't test positive until the Saturday after that. Kids and I had identical symptoms on the same days. All of us were on rapid tests. My positive was finally a rapid test at home but all other tests were rapid at a facility.

[nereo]

You probably just had Covid

Probably not.  3 negative tests say otherwise.

So did we.  But 1 of the 5 in the family tested positive, safe to assume everyone else with the exact same symptoms had it... but never tested +

I’m not following your logic. Why is it “safe to assume” multiple people had false negative tests, rather than the alternative - that they never contacted Covid despite expose?

[habanero]

I’m not following your logic. Why is it “safe to assume” multiple people had false negative tests, rather than the alternative - that they never contacted Covid despite expose?

I started getting mild sympthoms of something on a Friday or Saturday. Did rapid tests Sunday, Monday and Wednesday that were all -ve. On Thursday ny GF and one of my daughters tested +ve so I did another rapid which came out +ve. If they hadn't tested +ve I would never have done the last test that turned out +ve and would have had covid, but never a +ve test to show for it. Did 2 more the next few days that were +ve.

I was quite surprised that it took so long to get the two lines on the test. Its just anecdotal, of course, but at least it lowered my confidence in these tests a bit.

[HPstache]

You probably just had Covid

Probably not.  3 negative tests say otherwise.

So did we.  But 1 of the 5 in the family tested positive, safe to assume everyone else with the exact same symptoms had it... but never tested +

I’m not following your logic. Why is it “safe to assume” multiple people had false negative tests, rather than the alternative - that they never contacted Covid despite expose?

That's what the experts say.  If anyone in a family tests positive and everyone else in the family has symptoms but don't test positive assume its covid.  There are SO many "just a cold" stories out there from Jan-Feb, it's almost guaranteed it was undiagnosed Omi.  Which is fine because Omi for the vaccinated is just like a cold.  People just feel better believing it was just a regular old cold.

[joemcd333]

Yep seems like a shitload of people got the OMI and now we are actually approaching real herd immunity, or at least something close to it. No mandates, no passports! Move on already

[Cranky]

Most everyone I know who has kids in the school system got covid in the omicron wave.  But almost all of us without children managed to avoid it.  My social circle is mostly 40+ and a lot of us telecommute.  I was at a table the other night with 6 people, 3 couples ranging in age from 30s to 60s, and none of us have had covid.  But I also live in a highly vaccinated state, all of my friends got their boosters, and mask wearing was pretty universal during the omicron wave.  And I didn't see anyone other than my husband for 5-6 weeks since I work from home and don't have to have any exposure.  He did have a lot of less careful co-workers, mostly with kids, who got it.

Now that our wave has receded, our hospitals are down to August 2021 levels (which were very low here - we didn't have much of a delta wave), and our positivity rate is around 2%, I am taking advantage of the lull to resume a social life, go to the gym, restaurants, etc.  I'm still wearing a mask in grocery stores because it's easy and risk is cumulative - it's not all or nothing.  And I'm holding off on travel to Europe because they're still pretty omicroned up...which is curious because I thought they had omicron before we did in the US.

We live in an extended family household, and it includes a 5yo who is in kindergarten. He has had two mild colds this year and has tested negative both times (and frankly, I think it’s kind of amazing that he has had so little illness!) The rest of us haven’t been sick at all. He *is* vaccinated and the school requires masks at all times except when eating, and they are pretty spaced out in the classroom.

So I don’t think any of us have had it…

[elaine amj]

I am really starting to wonder if it is finally time. Or at least that it will be soon. I am in Ontario and we are coming down from our 5th wave. Omicron hit hard and I finally know a lot of people who got Covid, including 3 older unvaxxed folks who were all hospitalized. Ontario has just removed vaccine mandates and is contemplating dropping masks soon.

We are high risk so are triple vaxxed and careful and so far, no Covid here.

We decided to travel to BC in April - our first time leaving the province since the start.

And I am wondering about finally going back to Disney World in the fall. Or maybe Christmas. Feels kinda crazy to even think about it so not sure what we will do…

We haven’t been around groups larger than 10-15 since the beginning. (We are not working so staying home was easy). We do have a wedding in early May to attend with 100+ people. A bit nervous about the hugging but man, we want to dance and laugh and celebrate the couple who we love dearly.

It does look like it is time to loosen up. Still paying close attention though as this feels jarring to us.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[PhrugalPhan]

"We need asses in seats and all the gas wasted to do it.  Whether or not there's a point to people being in the office!  Fuck you environment, fuck you saving money, and fuck you employee happiness.  Asses in seats are the only measure of work we're capable of determining!"

LOL I thought you were talking about my office.  Though to be fair to them, that's not the reason.  Some jobs really did require being the office through the last 2 years, while others don't need to be there at all.  But to keep people quiet that have been complaining that it is unfair to them to have to go to the office, now everyone gets to come in.  <roll eyes>  Its still just as dumb, but I am 10 months until FIRE, so I'll just suck it up for now.

[Focus_on_the_fire]

I'm 100% remote for now. However, I expect to get an email calling us back for at least two or three days any day now.

Leadership can't justify this from either a productivity or employee happiness point of view, so they'll claim we need to do it in order to strengthen collaborative, team building. 

This is what you get when your leadership team loves an audience.

[GuitarStv]

Most people in management have no idea what the people they're managing are doing . . . and have no idea if a good job is happening or not.

Asses in seats is their main metric for determining performance.  It's why the 'looking always busy, never getting shit done' people tend to do pretty well in many corporate environments.

This enforced work from home has made a lot of management folks super terrified and worried.  It was doomed to end at the first possible chance for <insert any reason, no matter how non-sensical>.

[sui generis]

DH's workplace is dropping the mask mandate soon. Most people already take their masks off in their own offices and only put them on when someone drops by....I'm FIREd, so I don't know but I assume this is the norm where people have private offices? I guess this is technically allowed if there's only one person in the office and they keep the door closed, but it sounds like the closed door thing isn't strictly followed.

DH won't be allowed to stop wearing a mask though because he has a medical order not to get the flu vaccine.  And all of the sudden if you are unvaccinated for the flu you have to wear a mask through all of flu season.  I presume they are doing the same for people that aren't vaccinated for COVID, but didn't ask because (luckily) DH was able to get vaxxed for COVID.  But I also think it's sort of weird, and simultaneously that it could make sense, that they are taking new precautions for flu that they never thought were needed before, and it's a totally different disease.  Instead, I wish (as has been discussed a lot on this thread) that they created different norms around people staying home when they are sick and masking when they have symptoms of anything respiratory.

[jinga nation]

masking mandate at my fedgov workplace lifted yesterday per CDC guidelines since our tri-county area met CDC standards.
unvaxxed - still have to wear masks and take weekly tests and submit paperwork.
masking has been optional in school for a while.
almost back to pre-covid 2020 normal.
but with the $4+/gallon gas prices, folks want to return to the work from home/hybrid.
noticed less lifted toy tucks on the roads last couple of days.

[former player]

A charming little article here that even mild covid can shrink your brain -

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-022-04569-5

I'm still wearing a mask when shopping etc.

[HPstache]

A charming little article here that even mild covid can shrink your brain -

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-022-04569-5

I'm still wearing a mask when shopping etc.

Makes me wonder how many other common cold strains do the exact same thing but no one did brain scans in the past to notice?

[Scandium]

My youngest is eligible for the 5+ vaccine (vs the <5 that doesn't work) in a month. After that I'll stop giving a shit about anything covid, like everyone else has been doing since ~december 2020.

Neighbors who don't vax their kids and everyone gets covid, cousins who have huge family parties and everyone got covid, friends going to football games in fall 2020 (got covid).. Soon we can join the fun too!

[Captain FIRE]

My youngest is eligible for the 5+ vaccine (vs the <5 that doesn't work) in a month. After that I'll stop giving a shit about anything covid, like everyone else has been doing since ~december 2020.

Neighbors who don't vax their kids and everyone gets covid, cousins who have huge family parties and everyone got covid, friends going to football games in fall 2020 (got covid).. Soon we can join the fun too!

Yeah, I feel about the same.  Alas we are still waiting on our 22 month old to be eligible to join in the risky behavior!  I have friend pressuring us to join at a restaurant for a birthday party (sorry no), and they used to be the most conservative.  What's also frustrating is the 5-11 yo vaccine apparently only protects against severe COVID, but not our 5 yo bringing it home to his younger unvaccinated sibling.  And yet daycare wants to remove their masks.

[Abe]

A charming little article here that even mild covid can shrink your brain -

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-022-04569-5

I'm still wearing a mask when shopping etc.

Makes me wonder how many other common cold strains do the exact same thing but no one did brain scans in the past to notice?

Other common cold strains aren't associated with long-term neurologic deficits, so there was no incentive to study this. So I'd say very few strains.

[sui generis]

A charming little article here that even mild covid can shrink your brain -

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-022-04569-5

I'm still wearing a mask when shopping etc.

Makes me wonder how many other common cold strains do the exact same thing but no one did brain scans in the past to notice?

Other common cold strains aren't associated with long-term neurologic deficits, so there was no incentive to study this. So I'd say very few strains.

But how do we know this for sure?  I mean, maybe we're all walking around with long-term neurologic deficits that we just call "normal life" and "normal aging" that are instead partially the result and accumulation of colds we've had over our lifetimes.  It would be interesting to find an adult that had never had a cold and see how their brain might differ.  But does such a person exist?

Obviously no one's developing any major deficits over one simple cold, that would probably be noticeable.  But it's interesting to contemplate whether there are small impacts - smaller than from COVID, like the severity of a cold is typically lower than COVID. 

[OtherJen]

A charming little article here that even mild covid can shrink your brain -

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-022-04569-5

I'm still wearing a mask when shopping etc.

Makes me wonder how many other common cold strains do the exact same thing but no one did brain scans in the past to notice?

Other common cold strains aren't associated with long-term neurologic deficits, so there was no incentive to study this. So I'd say very few strains.

But how do we know this for sure?  I mean, maybe we're all walking around with long-term neurologic deficits that we just call "normal life" and "normal aging" that are instead partially the result and accumulation of colds we've had over our lifetimes.  It would be interesting to find an adult that had never had a cold and see how their brain might differ.  But does such a person exist?

Obviously no one's developing any major deficits over one simple cold, that would probably be noticeable.  But it's interesting to contemplate whether there are small impacts - smaller than from COVID, like the severity of a cold is typically lower than COVID.

Regarding the bolded, that wouldn't be a good experiment. Too many potential confounding factors due to other differences between people.

The study published in Nature is well designed in terms of controls. They studied paired brain scans from the same people: one scan taken before COVID, the other taken after COVID. That eliminates potential confounders such as sex, age, previous infection history, comorbid disease, socioeconomic status, education, living environment, etc. The researchers found significant changes in a within-subject comparison from before to after COVID.

[mm1970]

A charming little article here that even mild covid can shrink your brain -

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-022-04569-5

I'm still wearing a mask when shopping etc.

And I read this last week:

https://www.independent.com/2022/02/27/enduring-long-covid/

[Just Joe]

I'm wondering if expensive gasoline will return people to WFH?

[HPstache]

A charming little article here that even mild covid can shrink your brain -

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-022-04569-5

I'm still wearing a mask when shopping etc.

Makes me wonder how many other common cold strains do the exact same thing but no one did brain scans in the past to notice?

Other common cold strains aren't associated with long-term neurologic deficits, so there was no incentive to study this. So I'd say very few strains.

But how do we know this for sure?  I mean, maybe we're all walking around with long-term neurologic deficits that we just call "normal life" and "normal aging" that are instead partially the result and accumulation of colds we've had over our lifetimes.  It would be interesting to find an adult that had never had a cold and see how their brain might differ.  But does such a person exist?

Obviously no one's developing any major deficits over one simple cold, that would probably be noticeable.  But it's interesting to contemplate whether there are small impacts - smaller than from COVID, like the severity of a cold is typically lower than COVID.

Regarding the bolded, that wouldn't be a good experiment. Too many potential confounding factors due to other differences between people.

The study published in Nature is well designed in terms of controls. They studied paired brain scans from the same people: one scan taken before COVID, the other taken after COVID. That eliminates potential confounders such as sex, age, previous infection history, comorbid disease, socioeconomic status, education, living environment, etc. The researchers found significant changes in a within-subject comparison from before to after COVID.

That does not rule out that other coronaviruses do not shrink your brain... which is what I am saying we do not know.

[StashingAway]

That does not rule out that other coronaviruses do not shrink your brain... which is what I am saying we do not know.

Or any other number of ailments or alien substances that we are exposed to on a daily basis that have concerning effect on overall public health. Like, what are the effects of the constant wildfires in the west? Or HFCF in our food? Or rising CO2 levels?

COVID-19 may in fact have perpetual and significant long term effects. But the level of scrutiny that it is being exposed to is magnitudes above others in the public and scientific community makes it difficult to actually asses risk. It is certainly a concern in a general sense because of the high transmission rates, but it is much more difficult to tell if it is a concern on an individual level.

That's not to say that it's isn't a concern, it's just saying that the public and internet at large isn't great at managing this in real time. It feeds on fear and outrage, two things which pandemics have in spades.

[OtherJen]

A charming little article here that even mild covid can shrink your brain -

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-022-04569-5

I'm still wearing a mask when shopping etc.

Makes me wonder how many other common cold strains do the exact same thing but no one did brain scans in the past to notice?

Other common cold strains aren't associated with long-term neurologic deficits, so there was no incentive to study this. So I'd say very few strains.

But how do we know this for sure?  I mean, maybe we're all walking around with long-term neurologic deficits that we just call "normal life" and "normal aging" that are instead partially the result and accumulation of colds we've had over our lifetimes.  It would be interesting to find an adult that had never had a cold and see how their brain might differ.  But does such a person exist?

Obviously no one's developing any major deficits over one simple cold, that would probably be noticeable.  But it's interesting to contemplate whether there are small impacts - smaller than from COVID, like the severity of a cold is typically lower than COVID.

Regarding the bolded, that wouldn't be a good experiment. Too many potential confounding factors due to other differences between people.

The study published in Nature is well designed in terms of controls. They studied paired brain scans from the same people: one scan taken before COVID, the other taken after COVID. That eliminates potential confounders such as sex, age, previous infection history, comorbid disease, socioeconomic status, education, living environment, etc. The researchers found significant changes in a within-subject comparison from before to after COVID.

That does not rule out that other coronaviruses do not shrink your brain... which is what I am saying we do not know.

Correct, it does not rule that out. An appropriate experiment would be to look at matched pairs of brain scans of people before and after they were infected with one of those other coronaviruses.

What we have is a natural infectious disease epidemiology experiment involving a novel and highly infectious coronavirus, and a well-controlled dataset that demonstrates that this coronavirus does cause at least short- to medium-term deleterious effects in the brain. It would be interesting to see whether it has similar effects throughout the CNS or in peripheral nerves, and whether these effects cause longer-term or permanent damage. But we do not yet have those data, and the fact that we do not yet have longitudinal data over a longer period does not negate the data that we do have.

[LaineyAZ]

I'm wondering if expensive gasoline will return people to WFH?

Some anecdata from Phoenix metro area:  we're seeing rush hour traffic at 90% of pre-Covid levels, so I think that all of those people who were working from home during the pandemic and insisted they'd never return to the office have, in fact, returned to the office. 
The corporations around here have decided it's time and employees seem to be complying vs. quitting to find that magical WFH job. 

[NorthernIkigai]

I'm wondering if expensive gasoline will return people to WFH?

Some anecdata from Phoenix metro area:  we're seeing rush hour traffic at 90% of pre-Covid levels, so I think that all of those people who were working from home during the pandemic and insisted they'd never return to the office have, in fact, returned to the office. 
The corporations around here have decided it's time and employees seem to be complying vs. quitting to find that magical WFH job.

Did more than 10% of people really insist that at the time? To me, rush hour traffic being at 90% (and assuming employment is higher than before, as it is in many places, or at least not lower) proves exactly the point you think it disproves.