Author Topic: When your spouse doesn't buy in ???  (Read 23038 times)

albireo13

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Re: When your spouse doesn't buy in ???
« Reply #50 on: April 29, 2017, 06:20:25 PM »
I know we are already FI but my wife doesn't believe it.  She's taking on extra shifts to make more money.  I think a big part is there is some resentment because I am planning retirement and she plans to work another 7 years.

Le Barbu

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Re: When your spouse doesn't buy in ???
« Reply #51 on: April 29, 2017, 06:30:54 PM »
I know we are already FI but my wife doesn't believe it.  She's taking on extra shifts to make more money.  I think a big part is there is some resentment because I am planning retirement and she plans to work another 7 years.

Some people enjoy working and/or just dont know what to do else. I have been out of work for 1 year now and honestly, I enjoyed it but not enough people around me to share with. DW still work, real retirees are spendy/boring and unemployed are poor/boring. I will get back to work part Time this fall to have a more normal life. Do not rush DW!

nick663

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Re: When your spouse doesn't buy in ???
« Reply #52 on: April 29, 2017, 06:37:28 PM »
Organize the debts and pay off the highest interest rates first.  It sounds like the car loan is at 2.2% so I wouldn't even classify that as a debt that needs to be paid off early (unless you can get rid of the car).

What is the issue with the shed idea that you're getting yelled at about it?  I would justify it as "this is where we will store the lawn mower/snow blower/etc long term to keep the garage free of clutter."  Maybe separate the shed purchase from the storage unit issue so you can get that done.  After it's complete, then propose moving some of the storage unit stuff to the garage to "have it close by" or something.

I also like the box by box idea of going through the storage stuff.  Maybe stash items in the garage boxes or in the basement that need to be saved or you can't get rid of without input from your spouse.  Do a "spring cleaning" at some point to clean out the garage boxes and run those items by her.

Another approach:  Turn getting rid of the storage unit to a reward that she appreciates.  $135/month pays for a decent vacation or a nice purse or something.  After that first time using that cash you don't have to spend it again and the storage unit will be gone. :)

Goldielocks

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Re: When your spouse doesn't buy in ???
« Reply #53 on: April 29, 2017, 08:21:40 PM »
Aw, Crap..  you all are reminding me that I have at least 7 large boxes of "stuff" under the stairs that I haven't looked in, in about 6 years.... we would have a TON of space if I just got rid 6 of those boxes.  A cascade impact, if you will.

It's almost all kid momento stuff (pictures, report cards) too.  While I am at it, I should downsize our bookcase by half, too.

Then more camping fits in the basement, and more garden stuff fits in the garage, and then, we don't need to build a shed after all (sorry DH!).

:-P

ETA -- okay, done!   Even had DH review the box of misc packages of photos, although he had fun looking, but not tossing any.   He still needs to go through two circa 1995 boxes with his old university notebooks in them... Those are still sitting on the coffee table right now.  (probably will stay there all week).   And I need to replace things in storage neatly, but we are down to 1 large box only, of kid memories, baby blankets, and all the family photos, in one place.   Almost no artwork remains from pre-age 7.  Horray!

Everyone got to look, remember, and toss.   One large recycling bag, one smaller with donations, and one large garbage bag..
« Last Edit: April 30, 2017, 11:39:55 PM by Goldielocks »

Villanelle

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Re: When your spouse doesn't buy in ???
« Reply #54 on: April 30, 2017, 12:10:33 AM »
It so hard to judge tone and context on the internet, but I'm wondering if maybe there are other issues at play here.  Someone getting "furious" or "chewing out" in a conversation about a storage unit or a 4 month shift in pay off date seems pretty unhealthy.  And separating finances, especially in the face of that dynamic, seems to perhaps be moving in a somewhat unfortunate direction.  Just throwing this out there to see if it sticks for you, but if you think there's something to it, consider spending money on some counseling together, perhaps. 

That said, go to the storage unit, and get rid of anything in that there is yours.  If it means enough to keep, find a place for it in the house (even if that means getting rid of something of yours in the house).  If not, toss it.  In the end, maybe you can get a smaller storage unit.  If not, you've still lightened your load.  But perhaps she will be inspired.  It still seems like you are pushing some of this change in her direction, when you probably need to be doing as much of it as possible yourself.  Don't nag (encourage, whatever) her about her stuff.  Purge yours.  Then, if it all fits in a smaller unit, ask her if she' okay with downsizing.  Or, if it would all fit in the shed you've already built, ask if she's okay with you moving what's left there.  But first you purge your things and spend your time building a shed and don't pressure her at all. 

This is a change *YOU* want to make.  It may make all the sense in the world to you, but you are the one wanting to change the status quo.  So from her perspective, you are basically changing the rules of daily life, and expecting her to follow the new rule book when she preferred the old one.  Would she get "furious" if you just built a damn shed in your spare time?  If you moved the things you use in the garage into the shed?   If you went through your stuff in the storage unit?  If you brought your remaining stuff from the storage unit into the shed or the newly gained space in the garage?  Stop trying to get her to do these actions with her things, and do them with yours and on your own to the extent possible.  Stop even talking to her about it.  When you come across a filthy, stained piece of art from the when the kids were little or something that looks like trash but essentially belongs to her, don't ask her if you can throw it out.  That will hopefully come later.  For now, do what you can with the things that are yours to control. 

And I love the suggestion, if and when it is time to again broach the subject of getting rid of or downsizing the storage shed, of suggesting  you use half of the money saved in one year for a weekend away or a shopping spree for her, or whatever she values.  Sure, it would be better to save all of it (or put it all toward debt), but that's not how you get a very reluctant, spendypants spouse on board. You have to show her the benefit, and it seems like a spreadsheet showing her that you can retire 7 months earlier (still years away) without a storage shed doesn't resonate with her, but a day at the spa or a weekend at a beach house might. 

albireo13

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Re: When your spouse doesn't buy in ???
« Reply #55 on: April 30, 2017, 05:12:40 AM »
I like the idea of thinning out my stuff and also talking less about it. 

ChpBstrd

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Re: When your spouse doesn't buy in ???
« Reply #56 on: May 01, 2017, 10:12:27 AM »
It almost sounds like money/stuff is the surface issue, and control/fear is the underlying issue. Neither of you want the other one dictating the terms of your shared lifestyle. +1 for counseling.

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Re: When your spouse doesn't buy in ???
« Reply #57 on: May 01, 2017, 12:59:03 PM »
Just try to lead by example.  Build the shed now.  Clean the house by yourself, even if the cleaners are coming.  Walk the walk and be the change you want to see in her.  Change takes time, don't make her give everything up overnight, just keep backing up your words with your actions and let change come naturally.

This.

You just have to start doing stuff and stop asking permission. You aren't doing anything bad, so she'll be okay as long as you do a good job.

eddie

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Re: When your spouse doesn't buy in ???
« Reply #58 on: May 03, 2017, 04:56:03 PM »
My 2 cents. 

I'm a huge believer in combined finances.  My wife and I can accomplish a lot more together than each trying to do our own thing.  I'm naturally a much cheaper person than my wife, but she has slowly come my direction.  Having a kid last year was a big coming together moment for us.  For our first few year of our marriage we had a lot of spending leakage.  Nice trips (don't regret that), eating out a lot, no budget, making minimum payments on student loans, car & house.  Last year we put together a general vision of where we want to be and I then did the math to figure out what it would take to get there.  We went from making $60k+ net worth increases for 3 years to our net worth going up $140k in the last year.  We got on a written budget every 2 weeks, cut the fluff, no travel, etc.  My wife is very smart but couldn't care less about doing research into investment options and retirement accounts.  So I try to keep her as involved as I can in any decisions but I'm the driving force.

It sounds like you need to sit down together and talk about what your goals are for the next 5-10 years.  What is her vision of life? It might even be beneficial to talk with a counselor.  If she's getting pissed off about you talking about retirement so much there is either something else going on or you are really talking too much about retirement.

$1.4mil is a lot of $, but if you still have a bunch of kids to put through college and need to pay off the house, I see a few more years of work ahead of you depending on how much $ you need each year to live on.  It definitely sounds like you have different opinions on what is enough and what amount of $ makes you feel comfortable is she is working overtime.




ChpBstrd

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Re: When your spouse doesn't buy in ???
« Reply #59 on: May 04, 2017, 09:29:03 PM »
Whatever you do, don't buy into the cultural norm that marital counseling is taboo. It has improved our relationship in the year we've tried it, and at a cost of only a few hundred in copays, which is the best money I ever invested. You do MC for a few months, get assistance resolving a particular problem, and both walk away better off than before. It is utterly stupid how many people get divorced, or spend years of life in misery, just to avoid the stigma of seeing a professional who usually could have prevented that. It's simple. When the stakes are high and you can't DIY, you hire a professional, whether it's a technical task, a medical issue, or getting along with a spouse.

shelivesthedream

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Re: When your spouse doesn't buy in ???
« Reply #60 on: May 05, 2017, 05:30:12 AM »
Some rules of thumb:

Be the change you want to see in your spouse... And then shut up about it.

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. However, the horse is never going to drink if it doesn't know how great the water is first.

If you want something done frugally, do it yourself.

Walk the walk before you try to talk the talk.

Jagnole

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Re: When your spouse doesn't buy in ???
« Reply #61 on: August 29, 2017, 05:19:08 PM »
Love this thread. I too am having a tough time convincing the wife of the mustachian lifestyle. I didnt think I came on too hard with budgeting talks but it has obviously upset her. I will try to slow down and lead by example  as suggested by many on here. I have only discovered MMM and the financial blogging community a couple of months ago but I was instantly sold and ready to jump in all the way. The wife however still needs convincing, it has been very frustrating for me but I understand. I need to pump the brakes a little and bring her in slowly. Thanks everyone for the great perspectives on this topic, what a great community!

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Re: When your spouse doesn't buy in ???
« Reply #62 on: August 30, 2017, 11:57:03 AM »
Those are your only examples?    If I made a quarter million dollars a year, I'd have a house cleaner too.     

How much do you save?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

When we were earning above 200k, we had a house cleaner, too.  Cost $100 every two weeks, and for the size of the house, was well worth it. 

Six months after I left my high-earning job, we cancelled the cleaner.  Just couldn't justify it.  Now, we do it ourselves, but 'deal with' a relatively less clean home.  We go on cleaning spurts whenever it simply bugs us or guests are coming over.

One option - lessen the frequency or see if you can get someone who will just do bathrooms and kitchen.

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Re: When your spouse doesn't buy in ???
« Reply #63 on: August 30, 2017, 12:21:29 PM »
Well I got chewed out tonight by my wife.   She wasn't happy that I was paying so much attention to retirement finances, considering I am 61 and she is 57.
LOL

Gotta love it.

 So, I am going to start separating our finances and protecting myself.  She has no clue about her retirement savings and it's not even on her radar.
We are both ok financially.  It should not be an issue but, I am tired of fighting the fight.

OK.  Have a more full picture of your situation now.  I agree with others who say to 'lead by example'.  I was going to say that perhaps your case was like mine where you had such a high income for so long that you didn't really need to budget or watch expenses (I put savings on autopilot and we spent the rest) and she has become very used to a certain level of spending.

It's going to be hard to break, which is why leading by example seems to be the best strategy.  You're walking the walk.

I thought about separating our finances, but decided against it for now since they are very intertwined.  We married at the start of our careers, 2 kids, 20th anniversary this past summer.  Everything was co-mingled from the start (aside from retirement accounts).  Your case may be different.

I simply decided to lighten up (took a while), but it has taken stress off me.  I'm 48 and wife is 47, so I know we can ramp up earnings if needed.  I have to admit that I might feel different at 61 and 57. 

My concern was, and probably yours is, that if a certain level of spending is kept up, then it will eat into savings too fast unless I/we keep working.

Goldielocks

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Re: When your spouse doesn't buy in ???
« Reply #64 on: August 30, 2017, 02:58:33 PM »
One thing that helped me was to set up personal allowance / spending accounts with an overly generous (IMO) identical amount put into each of ours.   I tend to save it.  He tends to buy 3-d Printers, Burger King, and Tech toys.  When he runs out, he has to pack a lunch or wait for a while.   I do tend to get very low cost Birthday and Christmas gifts, because he has run low on funds...but that is OK because I actually don't like spendy gifts.  (See! it all works out).

Because I know it is capped, (and not thousands of dollars!!), I have managed to FIRE without a lot of arguments along the way.     When I want to do something together, like visit his ailing grandmother, I can gladly pay for the two of us out of my allowance...

Obviously your spouse would spend on different things than mine, so I recommend setting up a personal spend allowance that is 2x as much as you are comfortable with,autodeposit it to accounts each month for each of you, and  just get on their case when they spend outside of it.

OurTown

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Re: When your spouse doesn't buy in ???
« Reply #65 on: August 30, 2017, 03:04:33 PM »
We also did the personal allowance which we would take out in cash each week.  Works like a charm, and each person retains his/her independence.

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Re: When your spouse doesn't buy in ???
« Reply #66 on: August 30, 2017, 03:29:20 PM »
Over the past 14 months, I've spent probably $1,000 in $35 copays for a marriage counselor.

Best bargain I've ever bought! DW and I have gone from nearly doomed to probably OK.

life_travel

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Re: When your spouse doesn't buy in ???
« Reply #67 on: August 30, 2017, 04:35:17 PM »
Over the past 14 months, I've spent probably $1,000 in $35 copays for a marriage counselor.

Best bargain I've ever bought! DW and I have gone from nearly doomed to probably OK.
That's so great to hear !

life_travel

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Re: When your spouse doesn't buy in ???
« Reply #68 on: August 30, 2017, 04:36:21 PM »
One thing that helped me was to set up personal allowance / spending accounts with an overly generous (IMO) identical amount put into each of ours.   I tend to save it.  He tends to buy 3-d Printers, Burger King, and Tech toys.  When he runs out, he has to pack a lunch or wait for a while.   I do tend to get very low cost Birthday and Christmas gifts, because he has run low on funds...but that is OK because I actually don't like spendy gifts.  (See! it all works out).

Because I know it is capped, (and not thousands of dollars!!), I have managed to FIRE without a lot of arguments along the way.     When I want to do something together, like visit his ailing grandmother, I can gladly pay for the two of us out of my allowance...

Obviously your spouse would spend on different things than mine, so I recommend setting up a personal spend allowance that is 2x as much as you are comfortable with,autodeposit it to accounts each month for each of you, and  just get on their case when they spend outside of it.
Can I ask what your actual amount is per person ?

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Re: When your spouse doesn't buy in ???
« Reply #69 on: August 31, 2017, 10:29:17 AM »
One thing that helped me was to set up personal allowance / spending accounts with an overly generous (IMO) identical amount put into each of ours.   I tend to save it.  He tends to buy 3-d Printers, Burger King, and Tech toys.  When he runs out, he has to pack a lunch or wait for a while.   I do tend to get very low cost Birthday and Christmas gifts, because he has run low on funds...but that is OK because I actually don't like spendy gifts.  (See! it all works out).

Because I know it is capped, (and not thousands of dollars!!), I have managed to FIRE without a lot of arguments along the way.     When I want to do something together, like visit his ailing grandmother, I can gladly pay for the two of us out of my allowance...

Obviously your spouse would spend on different things than mine, so I recommend setting up a personal spend allowance that is 2x as much as you are comfortable with,autodeposit it to accounts each month for each of you, and  just get on their case when they spend outside of it.

I am curious what counts as a "personal spend".  I was thinking about allowances and/or separate accounts.  But, what I consider a personal spend may not be considered so by my spouse (i.e. she would classify it as a necessity whereas I would not).  Also, for what is agreed to not be a personal spend, the amount to be spent can be considered very different by each.

Do you consider personal to be literally anything that is just for you, i.e. clothes, or just for you and beyond a necessity?

A simple example was I thought about us using a specific credit card for grocery stores (with the underlying assumption that all food is a necessity......not true, but an easier rule to manage), but even grocery stores include a lot of non-grocery items. 

Is heading to DQ for a blizzard a personal spend?

Just trying to come up with a reasonable set-up without being overly picky.

Thanks.

OurTown

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Re: When your spouse doesn't buy in ???
« Reply #70 on: August 31, 2017, 03:17:26 PM »
Okay, you each take out $100 in cash on Sunday.  (Or whatever, the amount isn't really important).  I can spend my $100 on whatever I want, and so can she.  That is our personal spend.  I could do lunch out every day, or expensive coffee, or buy something at the bookstore.  She can spend it on one fancy dinner, or cat toys, or whatever.  You can even hoard your personal spend if you want to.

Goldielocks

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Re: When your spouse doesn't buy in ???
« Reply #71 on: August 31, 2017, 03:20:43 PM »
One thing that helped me was to set up personal allowance / spending accounts with an overly generous (IMO) identical amount put into each of ours.   I tend to save it.  He tends to buy 3-d Printers, Burger King, and Tech toys.  When he runs out, he has to pack a lunch or wait for a while.   I do tend to get very low cost Birthday and Christmas gifts, because he has run low on funds...but that is OK because I actually don't like spendy gifts.  (See! it all works out).

Because I know it is capped, (and not thousands of dollars!!), I have managed to FIRE without a lot of arguments along the way.     When I want to do something together, like visit his ailing grandmother, I can gladly pay for the two of us out of my allowance...

Obviously your spouse would spend on different things than mine, so I recommend setting up a personal spend allowance that is 2x as much as you are comfortable with,autodeposit it to accounts each month for each of you, and  just get on their case when they spend outside of it.
Can I ask what your actual amount is per person ?

I will PM you.  It is more than I am comfortable with, but keeps the marriage happy.

Goldielocks

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Re: When your spouse doesn't buy in ???
« Reply #72 on: August 31, 2017, 03:32:58 PM »
One thing that helped me was to set up personal allowance / spending accounts with an overly generous (IMO) identical amount put into each of ours.   I tend to save it.  He tends to buy 3-d Printers, Burger King, and Tech toys.  When he runs out, he has to pack a lunch or wait for a while.   I do tend to get very low cost Birthday and Christmas gifts, because he has run low on funds...but that is OK because I actually don't like spendy gifts.  (See! it all works out).

Because I know it is capped, (and not thousands of dollars!!), I have managed to FIRE without a lot of arguments along the way.     When I want to do something together, like visit his ailing grandmother, I can gladly pay for the two of us out of my allowance...

Obviously your spouse would spend on different things than mine, so I recommend setting up a personal spend allowance that is 2x as much as you are comfortable with,autodeposit it to accounts each month for each of you, and  just get on their case when they spend outside of it.

I am curious what counts as a "personal spend".  I was thinking about allowances and/or separate accounts.  But, what I consider a personal spend may not be considered so by my spouse (i.e. she would classify it as a necessity whereas I would not).  Also, for what is agreed to not be a personal spend, the amount to be spent can be considered very different by each.

Do you consider personal to be literally anything that is just for you, i.e. clothes, or just for you and beyond a necessity?

A simple example was I thought about us using a specific credit card for grocery stores (with the underlying assumption that all food is a necessity......not true, but an easier rule to manage), but even grocery stores include a lot of non-grocery items. 

Is heading to DQ for a blizzard a personal spend?

Just trying to come up with a reasonable set-up without being overly picky.

Thanks.

To me, personal spend is any spend that is not covered by another pre-budgeted, category, especially if it is something you can put off or live without.  e.g., All Discretionary spending that is not covered by another budget line comes from "Personal Spend".

So a high utility bill, unexpected car repair is not personal spend (maybe emergency fund), but DQ blizzard, Christmas presents for kids and nieces, beef jerky bought at the grocery store, cell phones, clothing, haircuts, shoe repair, parking tickets, laptops, bicycles, coffee**, subscriptions, soil for the garden, etc are all personal spend.

ETA:  ** Folgers coffee for me, and basic soda / ice tea cans for him are in our monthly grocery budget..  "Coffee" here means upgreaded gourmet coffee beans or buying premade coffee.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2017, 03:36:52 PM by Goldielocks »

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Re: When your spouse doesn't buy in ???
« Reply #73 on: August 31, 2017, 03:44:20 PM »

I am curious what counts as a "personal spend".  I was thinking about allowances and/or separate accounts.  But, what I consider a personal spend may not be considered so by my spouse (i.e. she would classify it as a necessity whereas I would not).  Also, for what is agreed to not be a personal spend, the amount to be spent can be considered very different by each.

Do you consider personal to be literally anything that is just for you, i.e. clothes, or just for you and beyond a necessity?

A simple example was I thought about us using a specific credit card for grocery stores (with the underlying assumption that all food is a necessity......not true, but an easier rule to manage), but even grocery stores include a lot of non-grocery items. 

Is heading to DQ for a blizzard a personal spend?

Just trying to come up with a reasonable set-up without being overly picky.

Thanks.

To me, personal spend is any spend that is not covered by another pre-budgeted, category, especially if it is something you can put off or live without.  e.g., All Discretionary spending that is not covered by another budget line comes from "Personal Spend".

So a high utility bill, unexpected car repair is not personal spend (maybe emergency fund), but DQ blizzard, Christmas presents for kids and nieces, beef jerky bought at the grocery store, cell phones, clothing, haircuts, shoe repair, parking tickets, laptops, bicycles, coffee**, subscriptions, soil for the garden, etc are all personal spend.

ETA:  ** Folgers coffee for me, and basic soda / ice tea cans for him are in our monthly grocery budget..  "Coffee" here means upgreaded gourmet coffee beans or buying premade coffee.

To me, that seems reasonable.  One simple example is haircuts (that would cause some disagreement), something we'd both agree is a necessity, but not agree on amount to spend or frequency.....I've cut my own for 5+ years since it's a pretty simple, but my wife's is $38 plus tip.

What about kids?  If you have any..........we disagree on a bunch of stuff that she spends on the kids.  The kids are both ours, but she'd buy stuff for them that I wouldn't.

Goldielocks

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Re: When your spouse doesn't buy in ???
« Reply #74 on: August 31, 2017, 11:07:14 PM »
ESPECIALLY the kids.

I have a budget that includes groceries and family entertainment, and a set amount each month for kids allowance, extra spending (e.g., school, extra curricular, basic clothing), and education fund.

The extra spending is actually quite small but just about do-able.  Any extra has to come from our personal discretionary spends, or the kids earn it themselves outside of the home.

KIDS was my personal overspend category, too.  I just thought they NEEDED those after school enrichments, in particular, but also extra tutoring when the school recommended it, Christmas gifts that involved bicycles or phones, and that sort of thing...and $500 can get spent very quickly.  Setting up a tight budget for KIDS was a huge benefit to my FIRE progress.

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Re: When your spouse doesn't buy in ???
« Reply #75 on: August 31, 2017, 11:42:57 PM »
Cool.  Thanks.  I appreciate the input.

It all seems reasonable to me.  I'll start the conversation with how much we should spend on a, b, c, x, y, z.

My guess is that we can agree upon that up front ........... since my wife likely has no clue what she actually spends.  e.g. how about $500 per kid per year on clothes.  I am sure she'd say "ok", not realizing that we currently spend much more.

Thank you, thank you.  I think this is all reasonable.

shelivesthedream

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Re: When your spouse doesn't buy in ???
« Reply #76 on: September 01, 2017, 01:26:02 AM »
Our personal spending money typically goes on:

Me: treat food/snacks, garden expenses, craft items, clothing (excluding socks, underwear and re-soling shoes), small outings with friends (such as museum exhibition entrance fee)
Him: haircuts, books, lunches/dinners out, his hobby/collection

Basically, anything that isn't already explicitly budgeted for with a side order of things that might be contentious. If husband wants to pay for someone to cut his hair out of his own money or buy a book new which he then does not even read, that his business. The only discussion you ever have is "you overspent this week/month", not "How are you incapable of using the library?"

When you set "the amount", know what is currently spent on these extraneous items and ask your spouse to be the first to suggest an amount. If it's outrageously high, you have the actual spending number to hand. But odds on they don't realise how much they are spending and will suggest a lower number - then you have them because they suggested it!

If you think it's too much but that's what they want and you can afford it, save some of yours.

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Re: When your spouse doesn't buy in ???
« Reply #77 on: September 01, 2017, 03:29:45 AM »
When you set "the amount", know what is currently spent on these extraneous items and ask your spouse to be the first to suggest an amount. If it's outrageously high, you have the actual spending number to hand. But odds on they don't realise how much they are spending and will suggest a lower number - then you have them because they suggested it!

Agree with this.

Our contention was fast food. I dislike it for health/nutrition reasons (but sometimes I am lazy or greedy), SO is a big fan. I'd prefer SO to eat less, but adults get to make their own choices.

Prior to the discussion, SO estimated fast food spend at £12 per month, and didn't see what the big deal was (sometimes I do get worked up about much smaller amounts, so not an unreasonable response). There had been loads of unresolved slightly tense comments (all three meals eaten in McD's today - WTF? vs it's only £3), because we were still paying off debt but I was doing the majority of the money managing and review. When we sat down to get discuss the joint budgeting we agreed to £30 per month as a joint crap-food budget, anything more comes out of SO's account. After a couple of months, SO is wondering where all the fun-money is going. £200 per month on fast food. Spending changed pretty quickly after that.

Like SLTD said, it changes the conversation entirely, to one where I'm no longer acting as the Burger King Police (or the Amazon or Book Police, etc). It accepts that we have different values in some places and this is okay.

We initially spent quite a lot of time figuring out what was in and out of the joint budget (sometimes over complicating it!). Now we very rarely have contentious conversations, and all the initial discussions have paid for themselves.

Remember that you aren't trying to trick your partner here, the idea is to have a real conversation about how much is reasonable to spend on kid's clothes / fast food and what spending you want to be judgement free and be solely responsible for.

slow hand slow plan

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Re: When your spouse doesn't buy in ???
« Reply #78 on: September 01, 2017, 01:16:17 PM »
house cleaners...you are on a forum of a site with a motto of: ........financial freedom through badassity...picking up after yourself is not hard ...come on this is sad people

zinethstache

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Re: When your spouse doesn't buy in ???
« Reply #79 on: September 01, 2017, 05:45:53 PM »
I just have to speak up about house cleaning. When I worked a day job, had two lucrative side gigs plus had a very active hobby, and DH worked his day job plus helped me with all of my extra curricular activities, it was very easy to pay the $20/hour for housekeeping. What it netted us is our house not turning into a pit since we were so busy. It allowed us to enjoy our time together doing what we wanted to do. We also had a 50+% savings rate.

The minute DH FIREd (back in 2011), he took over the house chores. I warned him that we needed to keep the house up to the level it had been kept for so many years and he did a pretty good job of it.

Note: Our house cleaners were his mom, then my mom. We'd had a third party housekeeper way back in the day, for a short time and they stole from us. They did get convicted of that theft, but it did turn us off from having strangers take care of our home.

Both of us were at hourly rates double what we paid for the service and my side gig made us way more than our day jobs.

So, under the right circumstances paying for certain services, like housekeeping does make sense.

Im just sayin...

Goldielocks

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Re: When your spouse doesn't buy in ???
« Reply #80 on: September 01, 2017, 06:00:13 PM »
When you set "the amount", know what is currently spent on these extraneous items and ask your spouse to be the first to suggest an amount. If it's outrageously high, you have the actual spending number to hand. But odds on they don't realise how much they are spending and will suggest a lower number - then you have them because they suggested it!

Agree with this.

Our contention was fast food. I dislike it for health/nutrition reasons (but sometimes I am lazy or greedy), SO is a big fan. I'd prefer SO to eat less, but adults get to make their own choices.

Prior to the discussion, SO estimated fast food spend at £12 per month, and didn't see what the big deal was (sometimes I do get worked up about much smaller amounts, so not an unreasonable response). There had been loads of unresolved slightly tense comments (all three meals eaten in McD's today - WTF? vs it's only £3), because we were still paying off debt but I was doing the majority of the money managing and review. When we sat down to get discuss the joint budgeting we agreed to £30 per month as a joint crap-food budget, anything more comes out of SO's account. After a couple of months, SO is wondering where all the fun-money is going. £200 per month on fast food.

...


Fire UK -- I think I love you for this post.  You put it so well.   Like a much (much) more interesting version of me..  LOL.

Playing with Fire UK

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Re: When your spouse doesn't buy in ???
« Reply #81 on: September 02, 2017, 12:41:19 AM »
Our contention was fast food. I dislike it for health/nutrition reasons (but sometimes I am lazy or greedy), SO is a big fan. I'd prefer SO to eat less, but adults get to make their own choices.

Prior to the discussion, SO estimated fast food spend at £12 per month, and didn't see what the big deal was (sometimes I do get worked up about much smaller amounts, so not an unreasonable response). There had been loads of unresolved slightly tense comments (all three meals eaten in McD's today - WTF? vs it's only £3), because we were still paying off debt but I was doing the majority of the money managing and review. When we sat down to get discuss the joint budgeting we agreed to £30 per month as a joint crap-food budget, anything more comes out of SO's account. After a couple of months, SO is wondering where all the fun-money is going. £200 per month on fast food.
...

Fire UK -- I think I love you for this post.  You put it so well.   Like a much (much) more interesting version of me..  LOL.

Thank you Goldielocks! I'm flattered. :-)

MrFrugalChicago

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Re: When your spouse doesn't buy in ???
« Reply #82 on: September 02, 2017, 06:39:35 AM »
I pay my house cleaners $25 an hour

I value my time at $200 an hour

I would be foolish to do it myself. Basic math. I have infinite consulting work i could pick up if i had free time.

Villanelle

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Re: When your spouse doesn't buy in ???
« Reply #83 on: September 03, 2017, 01:47:32 AM »
Would it work for you to do all of the grocery shopping?  That would help you control some things, and might make separating out the personal spend at the grocery story.  If she makes a grocery run for chips and candy, that comes out of her personal money. 



clarkfan1979

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Re: When your spouse doesn't buy in ???
« Reply #84 on: September 03, 2017, 10:42:37 AM »
I think it takes time to convert a spouse. It's been 3.5 years since I told my wife that we need to be more accountable for our spending. She isn't into it as much as me, but she had made a lot of progress. She has cut her luxury spending by about 50%. Of the top of my head, she used to spend about $600/month on clothes and $100 at Starbucks. Now she spends about $300/month on clothes and $50/month at Starbucks. It's still not great, but I'm going to give it more time.

LateToTheParty

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Re: When your spouse doesn't buy in ???
« Reply #85 on: September 04, 2017, 06:12:55 AM »
2 years ago, my husband was completely resistant when I "discovered" MMM and introduced the concepts. Fast forward.... now he is 100% committed. It was a gradual process at first, but seeing the stash grow with the changes I made convinced him that this early retirement plan is not just smoke and mirrors. What worked for us:
Sitting down together to collaborate on the changes, items to cut.  We slashed/eliminated: pest control plan, doggie day camp, expensive cell plans, monthly subscriptions/apps that were automated, cable, wasteful spending.

What worked really well for us was to determine a monthly "allowance".   We each get $100 allowance to spend on whatever we want. My husband withdraws that $100 each month, and he has full autonomy to do whatever he wants with it. We also share a joint $100 entertainment budget.  Having that set amount allows us to not feel deprived, and it encourages mindfulness when making purchases.

Prior to that "allowance" it was easy for $1000 per month to simply be wasted on unnecessary crap/clothing/eating out.

firelight

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Re: When your spouse doesn't buy in ???
« Reply #86 on: September 20, 2017, 12:03:15 AM »
We spend on house cleaners every other month ($80) since we have a toddler and a baby and need a super deep clean. We clean at other times. So house cleaner is worth it for marriage under right circumstances even if you won't be earning much during that time.

DH's vice is food. He regularly eats out with team and spends around $150 per month for this. He also gets takeouts once a week which comes to another $150 a month. Even though we could do personal spends, I would end up saving it and putting it back in the pool while he'd spend his. It would lead to resentment on my end because he was 'wasting' it while I saved it. We now just make it a line item in our budget and I remind him when it crosses those amounts. We find this easier than having personal spending amounts since it's just one category that we differ in.

honeybbq

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Re: When your spouse doesn't buy in ???
« Reply #87 on: September 20, 2017, 09:04:18 AM »
house cleaners...you are on a forum of a site with a motto of: ........financial freedom through badassity...picking up after yourself is not hard ...come on this is sad people

You're right. It's not MM at all. We spend ~$200-250 a month on house cleaning and it's a drop in the bucket and I have more time to spend with my kid. It gets done when I'm not home, and I come home to a clean and nice smelling house. I spend the extra time exercising and with my family. Everyone wins.

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!