Author Topic: When is an unnecessary expense "worth it"?  (Read 4478 times)

somebody8198

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When is an unnecessary expense "worth it"?
« on: December 05, 2015, 07:22:23 AM »
For some context, I am a 30 year old man. I have a pretty large amount of savings, definitely in the 99th percentile for people my age, but possibly not much compared to folks on this forum. I've been doing a personal version of MMM style saving for years before I discovered this site. I have no problem saving 50% every month and I have no debt. I have an emergency fund of cash that is about a year's worth of living expenses.

Now my question is about extra expenses -- things you do for fun, out of interest, or just because it makes you feel good. For me, this is exercise. I started taking martial arts training over a year ago and I love it. I'm not going to be competitive obviously, but it makes me feel great, keeps me in good shape, and helps with my mental attitude. It is not cheap, however. On top of that, the martial arts gym doesn't have weights, and I like to do some weight training, so I have been considering joining yet another gym that specializes in strength conditioning and weight lifting. That would bump up my monthly allowance for fitness pretty high, much higher than I thought I would go several years ago.

Is this "lifestyle creep" in your view? As I find myself trying to justify the expense, I find that I'm making similar arguments that I hear people make for buying fancy clothes and going out to expensive dinners -- e.g., "you're worth it," "you're only young once", "why else do you work?"

This is obviously nonsense in many cases. But clearly there are some cases where the pleasure you get from an activity is worth the expense. What is a good, sane, rational way to do this calculus?

(IMO, the martial arts gym I belong to is *definitely* worth the cost, though I'm not sure the strength conditioning gym would be. It's almost twice the cost of the martial arts gym, and I can only reasonably hope to work out at one each day. Hence my conundrum.)

Bracken_Joy

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Re: When is an unnecessary expense "worth it"?
« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2015, 07:30:51 AM »
I'm with you on the fitness. DH are health and fitness nuts. But we try to do it cheaper *when it won't make a difference*. So when he had the time for BJJ? He joined a BJJ gym- no way to do that on your own really. You'd have to find friend, buy mats, etc etc. You can't roll alone. But weight lifting? We bought a rogue bar and some bumper plates (pro tip- free shipping on all the aforementioned items around the crossfit games each year). Weight lifting we can still get great results on our own, martial arts not so much.

To me, if it's a major aspect of health: food, fitness, community, etc, and you're meeting goals (ie, hair is not on fire), then the expense is worth it. But if you can get the same benefits to your health and wellbeing cheaper, then I consider that.

StetsTerhune

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Re: When is an unnecessary expense "worth it"?
« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2015, 07:40:51 AM »
For me, the most important thing is to always be thinking about what you're getting for your money and whether you could be getting more value for that money. For you, you seem to be clear that the martial arts is important to you. Now I'd ask myself if there is a cheaper way of getting the same thing. Not saying you should "cheap out" on it, but if you can get better value somewhere else it might be worth while.

Same thing with the gym. Sure, getting in better shape is "worth" the money for a gym, but you may be able to get the same effect paying less, or nothing at all. I do bodyweight training at home, have probably spent $30 on it in my life. Maybe you lift heavy weights and need a gym? Maybe you like the camaraderie of a gym?  Just be clear on what you're paying for.

Liz

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Re: When is an unnecessary expense "worth it"?
« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2015, 08:04:16 AM »
For me, the most important thing is to always be thinking about what you're getting for your money and whether you could be getting more value for that money. For you, you seem to be clear that the martial arts is important to you. Now I'd ask myself if there is a cheaper way of getting the same thing. Not saying you should "cheap out" on it, but if you can get better value somewhere else it might be worth while.

Same thing with the gym. Sure, getting in better shape is "worth" the money for a gym, but you may be able to get the same effect paying less, or nothing at all. I do bodyweight training at home, have probably spent $30 on it in my life. Maybe you lift heavy weights and need a gym? Maybe you like the camaraderie of a gym?  Just be clear on what you're paying for.

This is a great point. Also since martial arts is your main focus and weight-lifting is secondary, could you find a cheaper gym for the weights or even lift weights at home?

My hobby is whitewater kayaking, and the initial investment can be expensive (boat, paddle, helmet, PFD, car racks, etc). However, it gets me outside, puts a smile on my face, gives me an adrenaline rush, and takes me to some beautiful places! I try to keep things in perspective -- I've "only" been kayaking for a couple of years, so I don't need multiple boats or the fanciest gear.

hybrid

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Re: When is an unnecessary expense "worth it"?
« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2015, 08:19:24 AM »
An unnecessary expense is often worth it if you value the time saved versus the expense incurred. And as you get older you will value time more and more versus simple cash. Because, quite simply, you will have a whole lot less of it available to you.

For example, changing your own motor oil. While I wholly get that some people find this exercise therapeutic, I do not. And the amount of time I would spend changing my oil versus the extra 10 bucks I would save having a shop do it simply does not add up for me. I have precious little spare time, I am not going to use it changing oil.

StetsTerhune

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Re: When is an unnecessary expense "worth it"?
« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2015, 08:21:56 AM »
My hobby is whitewater kayaking, and the initial investment can be expensive (boat, paddle, helmet, PFD, car racks, etc). However, it gets me outside, puts a smile on my face, gives me an adrenaline rush, and takes me to some beautiful places! I try to keep things in perspective -- I've "only" been kayaking for a couple of years, so I don't need multiple boats or the fanciest gear.

One of the other questions I ask myself on a purchase is what possibilities it opens up for me. Buying a kayak allows me to go out and do things you otherwise couldn't. Buying a nicer kayak doesn't, it might change slightly what it looks like, but you're doing the same thing.

I guess applying this to the martial arts/gym, I would think the martial arts can't be done any other way, so that's opened up by the purchase. There's a million close substitutes to a gym, not sure what options that purchase opens up for you (unless you have something specific in mind that it does)

somebody8198

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Re: When is an unnecessary expense "worth it"?
« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2015, 08:22:22 AM »
I should mention I live in a small apartment and cannot install any heavy weight lifting equipment. I have a few free weights but nothing that could replace a squat rack. If I owned a house I would just install one in my garage and be done with it, but I'm a lifetime renter.

SirFrugal

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Re: When is an unnecessary expense "worth it"?
« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2015, 08:54:20 AM »
If you are already saving 50%+ a month, I simply wouldn't worry about it.  If you go to the gym more days than not, and figure out the dollar per hour cost you are paying its going to be pretty cheap "entertainment," plus you might end up getting some fringe benefits like free showers so you don't have to use your own hot water, or free classes so you might get to explore other activities than karate and weight lifting.  What else are you supposed to do, sit home and stare at a wall?  Its not like you want to go buy a mcmansion and a 50,000 dollar car that hardly ever leaves your garage.  You have to enjoy some things in life or you are just going to burn yourself out in the quest for FIRE.

The way I look at it is I'll currently be FI by 33...if I splurge a little between now and then and am not FI until 33.5...big deal, I still hit a major milestone 20-30 years before most people do, if they ever manage to at all.  Yes I want to get there, and yes I want to retire early, but I'm not going to retire soon as I can fund a minimalist life style indefinitely anyhow...I'm going to put an extra few years in that will end up being my fun money so I can enjoy a decent budget for travel and hobbies while retired.  I totally understand a lot of people waste a lot of money on dumb shit and go in to debt for ridiculous reasons, but the other extreme is denying yourself reasonable pleasures or pursuit of interests just to bump an already high savings rate up another fraction of a percent...is it really worth it?

Jellyfish

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Re: When is an unnecessary expense "worth it"?
« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2015, 09:20:10 AM »
For me the point of frugality and MMM isn't to stop spending money at all, it's to prioritize and consciously make decisions to spend money only on the things I value and that bring meaning to my life.  In my spendier days I would eat out, or order takeout, or buy clothes or whatever without regard to the value it brought to my life. Now I align spending with my priorities.  For me that's travel and activities/experiences with my son.  For you, sounds like it's exercise and martial arts.  As long as its conscious, intentional, and doesn't jeopardize your overall financial goals, I say enjoy every bit of it. 

somebody8198

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Re: When is an unnecessary expense "worth it"?
« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2015, 12:13:07 PM »
For me the point of frugality and MMM isn't to stop spending money at all, it's to prioritize and consciously make decisions to spend money only on the things I value and that bring meaning to my life.  In my spendier days I would eat out, or order takeout, or buy clothes or whatever without regard to the value it brought to my life. Now I align spending with my priorities.  For me that's travel and activities/experiences with my son.  For you, sounds like it's exercise and martial arts.  As long as its conscious, intentional, and doesn't jeopardize your overall financial goals, I say enjoy every bit of it.

I absolutely agree with this -- I think I forget sometimes and focus too much on the money. I also like the suggestion above of measuring hours / $$$ as a way of assessing the value of an activity. Good suggestions all around.

big_slacker

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Re: When is an unnecessary expense "worth it"?
« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2015, 12:14:32 PM »
Look at what Ido Portal and Frank Medrano do with bday weight workouts. Look at how folks like Conor McGregor do at martial arts with body weight. Yes keep doing what makes you tick, but be smart and look for alternatives that don't cost.