Author Topic: When and how to give notice  (Read 1503 times)

CastingOn

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 2
When and how to give notice
« on: October 17, 2019, 07:49:20 PM »
Hi All,

Delurking for some advice about when and how to quit my job for RE. I'm FI and just waiting to RE.

I've been working at BigCompany for many years and recently was moved into a project management role (because anyone can be a project manager, right?), and I've been struggling to understand what's expected of me and do a good job in that role, but the reality is, I'm ready to retire. One of my projects isn't getting a lot of traction and my manager asked me today if I really wanted to be working on it or even doing this kind of work. Did I want to find another job? I told her I needed to think about it but what I really need to think about is whether to tell her that I would prefer to quit, on January 6, 2020, to be exact, or to wait.

The word in the forums seems to be "don't give more than 2 weeks notice". But I would like to work through the end of the year. Do I tell her my end date? Do I say, "no, I want to do this project" and then quit in a couple of months? Do I hang on until Feb--the project has a deliverable in January--and then give notice?

There are other things going on, like annual reviews and an annual educational offsite that we have to start prepping for in November, which I could avoid if I gave notice sooner. Otherwise, I have to go through the motions.

SwordGuy

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 8968
  • Location: Fayetteville, NC
Re: When and how to give notice
« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2019, 08:07:05 PM »

Question #1:   If they walk you out the door today after you tell them you want to retire on 6-Jan-2020, will that severely hurt your finances or put a major bonus at risk?

If the answer is yes, screw the company and don't give them extra notice.

And re-think your FIRE plans, because if 3 months' wages makes that big a difference (unless there's a whopping big bonus paid out in 2020 before you FIRE), you really aren't financially ready to FIRE.

Pick someone on your team that would do a decent job and start delegating project management work to them.   Split it among 2 or 3 if you're unsure who would do a good job.   That way, they will know what to do to keep the project going after you leave.

Question #2:  Otherwise, has this manager or this company treated you and others fairly in the past?  Do you trust them?

If so, tell your manager you think it would be best to transition someone else into the project management lead position.  Before they take over, assign less critical tasks to yourself starting 1-December.

Otherwise, mum's the word.   Their choices to be less than trustworthy have consequences.



FIRE 20/20

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 759
Re: When and how to give notice
« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2019, 12:29:08 PM »
@SwordGuy already gave you great advice, so I won't rehash that.  My advice is to just give 2 weeks notice, but as you said you know that's the advice you expected to get.   

I will offer what happened to me when I got outed gave notice a few months early.  To make a long story short I was at a point financially where if they had walked me out the door I would have been happy to go.  I didn't have any bonuses or stock options or anything else that could have been pulled.  I also trusted my management, and I believe that both my boss and his boss consistently upheld the highest level of ethical behavior.  They didn't just stay out of trouble, they saw themselves as good, moral people and consistently behaved in a manner that supported it.  Finally, my company was desperate to hire people; there were tons of open job requisitions but nowhere near enough qualified people to do the work.  In that situation, I felt comfortable giving notice in advance because even if they wanted to fire me they really couldn't, wouldn't, and it would have been fine if they did.  Nevertheless, I did find that I was progressively left out of meetings and off of e-mail traffic on things that I really should have been included in.  While I took plenty of time off, when I was in the office I tried to work hard until my last hour on the job.  It was irritating to not have all of the information I needed to make decisions and to be left out of future planning because I think I could have helped.  I was able to spend months trying to find someone to take my job, and I had plenty of time to bring them up to speed. 

In your situation, I would ignore what's best for the project and what's best for the company and figure out your ideal departure date and situation.  I'm not saying you should act on that, but you need to start by knowing exactly what you want.  It sounds like you have already done this - you would prefer to get out of annual reviews, the educational offsite, and you'd prefer to quit next January 6.  Anything else?  I'd then figure out which, if any, of those things are negotiable for you or are minor issues and which are non-negotiable.  Are the reviews just 5 hours of extra paperwork and not a big deal?  Then maybe just suck it up and deal with it.  Or will they be a major time sink that will be really draining for you?  Can you make the offsite bearable or will it really be awful?  Would 1 extra month give you personal or professional closure, or would the last month just be one month of suffering?  Based on that, I'd have a conversation with my boss and ask what it would look like if you transitioned off the project in January.  She opened the door to that discussion, so asking what the next steps would be seems reasonable.   If she wants you to stay in the role for a while but would like you to start to transition things like reviews and attendance at the offsite to someone else - great!  You win!  They get to train someone up and you get out of what you don't want to do!  There is some risk to this though.  They may decide that if you don't want to do this long term there isn't a place for you in the company any more.  You have a better idea of how likely that is than we do. 

Whatever you do, if you're a few months from FIRE then remember that you hold all the cards.  You don't need to do anything for them unless you're waiting on a bonus or something similar.  You can choose to make the transition smooth, and you can choose to leave in a way that helps your soon to be former co-workers, but that's your call.  Finally, it seems that you really only have about 8 or 9 weeks left.  If you're in the U.S., we have Thanksgiving coming up and wherever you I think most places around the world have some kind of shut-down or slowdown around Christmas and January 1.  If you can stall for a couple of weeks or have vague conversations about a potential transition, then pretty soon you'll be down to 6, 5, 4 real weeks of work.  If you don't do anything this may be a problem that solves itself. 

CastingOn

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 2
Re: When and how to give notice
« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2019, 09:20:11 AM »
@SwordGuy and @fire 2020

Thanks for the replies. I am FI; the 3 months won't make a difference, except for a little stock vesting and 401K matching.

Hearing your experiences plus talking about this some more with close friends has helped me devise a plan with milestone check-ins with my mental state.

The two ends of the spectrum are walking away now and leaving them to scramble, or bringing my project to a point where it's in good shape to hand off to someone else (it's a multi-quarter project). The latter option seems to provide more positive closure for me in that I will feel better about my decision (at least in the short term--I expect over time, I won't really give a damn). But it will probably take me into Feb or even March. So, for me, I have to evaluate if I'm getting the sleep and exercise and basic down-time off work I need or not, and if not, give notice. Because I'm not a 30-something FIRE. I'm 59 (didn't discover MMM until 2013). What I've discovered about aging is that I recover much more slowly from phyiscal setbacks and stress, and it's that reality that is really pushing me to leave work. Plus, I have some other things I'd like to put my energy into.

I don't trust management to provide me with an extended time to wrap things up; they would love the option to hire in someone at a lower salary level, I'm sure. I would prefer to give 2 weeks notice than negotiate for something longer.

As you may guess, I'm a little hesitant to let go of something that has been such a big part of my life and identity for so long and a little scared of what life will be like once I walk away from it. I believe it will really be much better on the other side, but I've never been that great about taking things on faith.

CastingOn

FIRE 20/20

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 759
Re: When and how to give notice
« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2019, 03:09:32 PM »
-snip-
But it will probably take me into Feb or even March. So, for me, I have to evaluate if I'm getting the sleep and exercise and basic down-time off work I need or not, and if not, give notice. Because I'm not a 30-something FIRE. I'm 59 (didn't discover MMM until 2013). What I've discovered about aging is that I recover much more slowly from phyiscal setbacks and stress, and it's that reality that is really pushing me to leave work. Plus, I have some other things I'd like to put my energy into.
-snip-

If that's the case I would tell your boss that you are dealing with some things outside of work and will need to take a little extra PTO for a few months.  Or, consider just quitting even though you'd like to finish this project out.  There's no reason to sacrifice your well-being if you are totally FI and are about to leave.  I've posted more details elsewhere, but for the last year I burned down my ~400 hours of PTO by getting myself into a low-stress job and working just 32 hours a week.  I didn't formally transition to part-time, but I did take most Fridays off and I left the office if I had my work finished at 2:00.  I realize that not every job allows that, but I think most managers would want to offer their people flexibility if they needed it.