Author Topic: What would you do?  (Read 3437 times)

freeazabird

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What would you do?
« on: September 09, 2017, 08:22:28 PM »
Married with toddler, one car household. Our car gave out on us and needs $3k in repairs. We don't know what to do regarding car. In general, the car sucks and is way too small (we got it before ever expecting to have kids). Our current dream car is a Toyota RAV4 2015, 30k miles, $19k. Monthly Expenses and income as follows:

Income: $10,000
Expenses: $6,500
Total debt: $57k (mortgage)
House worth $240k
Savings:   $7k

I know our savings are low. We just made a big payment on our mortgage. We own a small business and one of our large clients has not paid us, and we expected to replenish savings to reasonable level with payment. I'm pretty sure payment will come, but it's late. Should we buy the RAV4 so we have a vehicle that suites us as a family and will last many years? Fix our shitty car? Buy a 2005 Camry with $150k mikes for $7k (I offer this option because we used to have a Camry and it's crazy reliable)

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marty998

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #1 on: September 09, 2017, 10:16:08 PM »
Hi - plain and simple, your dream car is not a Mustachian vehicle.

$19,000 on any car is not Mustachian either.

A 2005 Camry should be a lot less than $7k... surely you should be able to get a a later model than that for around that price???

okits

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #2 on: September 09, 2017, 10:37:24 PM »
The RAV4 is TEN PERCENT of your family net worth.  I would not buy it.

sequoia

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2017, 10:41:55 PM »
$19K does not sound mustachian, but I am reluctant to offer opinion without understanding the reasoning behind it. Can't you get an older RAV4 for cheaper? Why focus on the 2015? I know nothing about RAV4 except they are Toyota so they should be pretty reliable.

Looking at your income, you sounds like you can afford it. Yes it will be tight short-term, but you know more about your financial than everyone.

imo, $19K car can be mustachian if you planning to keep it for a long time, but if it were me, I can get a cheaper car with the same amount of room since I consider myself handy at fixing stuffs (and I enjoy it), but I am sure my situation and yours are not the same.


freeazabird

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2017, 11:01:14 PM »
I'm not handy at fixing cars. I wanted the 2015 because RAV4s are reliable and I'd like to keep it for 10 years at least. There are also some newer features I'd enjoy having.
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Frankies Girl

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2017, 11:04:54 PM »
Good grief, how large is your child that any regular car isn't large enough and you need an SUV to haul Junior around in?

Last I checked, children are kind of small, even if you factor in a ridiculous amount of equipment for said child, a regular sedan should be quite ample to carry them and the junk.

You hate your car, so you're calling it shitty and awful and not even telling us what it is: age/model/repairs needed... which means you've already decided what you want to do, and are biasing the information to try to get backup for the choice you WANT to make - to buy DREAM CAR.

But the best solution is to suck up the repair cost if the repairs mean you get another couple of years out of the existing vehicle since $3K is cheaper than most any newer car purchases.

The second best solution is to purchase a ~$5-6k range vehicle that is a bit bigger in size than your current "shitty" car, and drive that into the ground. There are plenty of vehicles that are going to fit those parameters.

But buying a RAV4, especially at that price - is not the right decision at all. Not even half that price really. As someone pointed out, it's too much money for your budget, and you don't have it (I assume) so you'd have to finance it and that also means full insurance coverage.
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soccerluvof4

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2017, 04:52:16 AM »
I agree with the others above...You can find a heck of alot better used car for alot less. Not to mention right now is a good time to buy a used car as the costs have come way down.
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Monkey Uncle

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #7 on: September 10, 2017, 05:02:31 AM »
I'll second Frankies Girl's post - tell us about your current car (make, model, age, miles, needed repairs) and your driving needs.  Then we might be able to offer some decent advice.

Have you gotten a second opinion on the repairs?
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ricgnzlzcr

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #8 on: September 10, 2017, 05:52:36 AM »
Good grief, how large is your child that any regular car isn't large enough and you need an SUV to haul Junior around in?

Last I checked, children are kind of small, even if you factor in a ridiculous amount of equipment for said child, a regular sedan should be quite ample to carry them and the junk.


Just an FYI I have a 2016 RAV4 and recently transitioned from an infant car seat to a toddler car seat that is still rear facing. There is barely any room in the passenger seat for my wife to sit in comfortably. Luckily she is short so it works out. I definitely can't fit there.

So I understand where OP is coming from, but I still agree with everyone else...the RAV4 is out of their price range. There has to be something more affordable for them.

Raenia

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #9 on: September 10, 2017, 06:24:20 AM »
I concur with Frankies Girl, you need to think about how much more life you can get out of your current car for the 3k repair.  If it really is going to be a bad deal (not just you're tired of this car and don't like it), then go with a used Camry or similar.  You should be able to find a good used car for under 7k, shop around private sales until you find something for the right price.  If you're looking for an excuse to buy your dream car, you won't find it here.  You don't have that much in savings, which means you'd have to take a loan.  Now, taking a loan is acceptable when the interest rate is low, but only when you have the money to buy it outright and choose to invest the difference instead.  Not to buy something you can't afford and pay for it later.

ChrisLansing

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #10 on: September 10, 2017, 08:30:12 AM »
At the risk of being rude, and not really answering your question, how in the world can you have $6500/mo in expenses?   What could you possibly be spending $6500 on each month?      Your monthly income is handsome (IMO) and about 1/3 my annual income.    Needless to say, on 30,000/year I don't spend 6500 per month.   Allowing that you have a bigger house, growing kids, etc., so our lifestyles are  differerent, it still bogles my mind that you couldn't do something about expenses.   

At 10k/mo and 6.5K in expenses you have a respectable savings rate or 35%.    But I have a savings rate of 16% on my far far more modest income.     If you could reduce expenses you could kick your savings rate up to at least 50%. Think what that might mean in terms of wealth accumulation, FI, and ER.   

As I said, we are at different points in life and you likely can't reduce your expenses to my level (nor would you necessarily want  to) but 6500 a month?   Whole families live on incomes far smaller than your expenses.     You have your own business and I know the money doesn't come in like clockwork, but the expenses come due like clock work. 

Sorry for not answering the question, and sorry for any offense I may have caused.    I don't know, I kinda feel like you need a face punch.     

Edited to reflect my savings rate of 16% vs 33% I had mistakenly typed.   
« Last Edit: September 10, 2017, 08:34:20 AM by ChrisLansing »

freeazabird

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #11 on: September 10, 2017, 11:00:26 AM »
To answer questions about my car.....it's a 2004 Mini Cooper with 170k miles.  It has engine problems, car misfires, new brakes and rotor, a flat tire, and the alignment is off. I live in a city with  terrible roads and the cars tires cannot handle them well and we are constantly having to buy new tires. The car also requires mid level gas, is 2 doors, and requires my knees to touch the dash when my daughter is in car seat. I also had spinal surgery and need a car that is no so close to the ground that I feel every bump on the road violently.

I should also point out that I am not Mustachian. I also don't want to be the standard dumbass when it comes to money. My health however comes first. My knees are bruising from not properly fitting in the car, and my back is taking a beating. I cannot replace my body. So need a new vehicle that works for my circumstances and will be reliable and last at least 10 years.
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lbmustache

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #12 on: September 10, 2017, 11:08:30 AM »
To answer questions about my car.....it's a 2004 Mini Cooper with 170k miles.  It has engine problems, car misfires, new brakes and rotor, a flat tire, and the alignment is off. I live in a city with  terrible roads and the cars tires cannot handle them well and we are constantly having to buy new tires. The car also requires mid level gas, is 2 doors, and requires my knees to touch the dash when my daughter is in car seat. I also had spinal surgery and need a car that is no so close to the ground that I feel every bump on the road violently.

I should also point out that I am not Mustachian. I also don't want to be the standard dumbass when it comes to money. My health however comes first. My knees are bruising from not properly fitting in the car, and my back is taking a beating. I cannot replace my body. So need a new vehicle that works for my circumstances and will be reliable and last at least 10 years.

I definitely agree the Mini Cooper needs to go.

You can get a newer Camry (2014-2015) for <$15k at this point. If you really need the Rav4, by all means get the Rav4... kinda odd to ask a Mustachian forum for a non-Mustachian answer ;) There are cheaper, more fuel efficient cars - even a Prius might work and would be a little cheaper but definitely very reliable long-term.

Monkey Uncle

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #13 on: September 10, 2017, 06:35:46 PM »
Oh, god yes - get rid of the Mini Cooper.  Those things are well known for being pieces of shit.

And I'll second the Camry recommendation, provided you really need that much space and can't get by with a Corolla.  You should be able to get a decent Camry for way less than $15k.  Earlier this year, my son bought a 2007 Camry with 60k miles for just under 9 grand.  That's almost new.  If you could do a Corolla, you should be able to find one with 60-80k miles for $7-8k.  The only reason to get a RAV 4 would be if you absolutely must have four wheel drive for some reason.
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freeazabird

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #14 on: September 11, 2017, 12:14:12 PM »
Thanks. Any other cars the size of a Camry folks can recommend?
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Dr.Jeckyl

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #15 on: September 11, 2017, 01:03:18 PM »
One of the best things I can recommend is taking any car you buy to a trusted auto tech. Almost any car you buy these days can be reliable as long as it starts that way and has the recommended maintenance completed in a timely manner. I daily drive a car not known for reliability and it is 14 years old with 261,000 miles. I would not hesitate to drive it across the country.


SC93

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #16 on: September 11, 2017, 01:09:11 PM »
A few things.... I am not Mustachian either.

You act like a 2001 Dodge mini van for $1300 wouldn't get the average person around for 5 years with no problems. I used that example because I have one for a delivery vehicle. I've had the current van for 1 1/2 years and I put new tires a year ago on the front and change the oil every 4,000 miles. That's all I've done to it. Rides perfect.... actually it rides WAY better than most vehicles on the road. I live in the 4th largest metroplex so no excuses of a big city and rough roads. So my point is, you can find a GREAT used 'car' if you prefer a car, at a very low price. What you have is called CAR FEVER!! What you need to do is pay $2500 cash for a vehicle while you save to buy you a new vehicle if you choose to buy new. By the way, did I mention that I can deliver all day on $25 worth of gas!! Why crawl from the fire in to the frying pan? Why not jump clear from the fire all together and get something that is big enough for your family yet great gas mileage?

In response to the poster about spending $6500.... I'm with you. We spend at will and still don't spend that much every month. The OP must have a lot of student loans and or credit card debt they need to pay off before even thinking about buying a new vehicle. <<< I did ASSUME there so if I am wrong, I am sorry.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2017, 03:44:19 PM by SC93 »

ducky19

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #17 on: September 11, 2017, 01:51:12 PM »
https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/inventorylisting/viewDetailsFilterViewInventoryListing.action?sourceContext=&formSourceTag=112&newSearchFromOverviewPage=true&inventorySearchWidgetType=AUTO&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity=d300&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity2=&zip=21201&distance=100&searchChanged=true&modelChanged=false&filtersModified=true#listing=183325192

I love my Pontiac Vibe - basically the same vehicle as the Matrix above which is a low mileage (43k) 2010 for $9k. Great MPG and should easily last 200,000 miles (300,000 if you don't drive it to piss). They're not huge, but you should be able to fit a rear facing car seat in there for a few months until you can turn it around. Definitely more Mustachian of a choice than the Rav4. I am not going to dive into the criticism of your finances or *SUCKAPUNCH!!!* Ok, gotta agree with others that $6500 month is excessive. You knew you were gonna get that before you posted, or at least you should have!  ;)  Good luck!

FireHiker

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #18 on: September 11, 2017, 03:27:05 PM »
Honestly, we love our Honda Civic, and almost drive it exclusively these days, even though we have a clown car SUV (Honda Pilot, we are working our way towards improving our mustachian ways but have plenty of room for improvement). My husband is 6'3", and we have two kids riding in the back seat. They are in booster seats now, but if you only have one child I would put the rear facing seat in the middle of the back, or passenger side if you must, if you need more room. My husband is plenty comfortable in the civic.

I agree completely that it's not practical to have a 2 door car with a baby/small child in a car seat. My parents were in a car fire many years ago, with small children (not me, older cousins) in the back of a 2 door car, and the panic when they were trying to get the kids out has been conveyed vividly enough for me to not drive a 2 door with kids who can't unbuckle themselves.

So, yes, definitely replace the mini. But, you should be able to find something safe, comfortable, and suitable for much less than the 2015 Rav4 you're eyeing. Good luck!



mm1970

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #19 on: September 11, 2017, 04:16:28 PM »
Good grief, how large is your child that any regular car isn't large enough and you need an SUV to haul Junior around in?

Last I checked, children are kind of small, even if you factor in a ridiculous amount of equipment for said child, a regular sedan should be quite ample to carry them and the junk.


Just an FYI I have a 2016 RAV4 and recently transitioned from an infant car seat to a toddler car seat that is still rear facing. There is barely any room in the passenger seat for my wife to sit in comfortably. Luckily she is short so it works out. I definitely can't fit there.

So I understand where OP is coming from, but I still agree with everyone else...the RAV4 is out of their price range. There has to be something more affordable for them.
That might be more of a function of the RAV + carseat combo.

RAVs, in the experience of my friend, aren't terribly carseat friendly.

Nowadays, you have to be rear facing until two for carseats.  My friends have a tendency to buy the biggest seat they can, so they only have to buy one. 
Seats that go to rear facing up to 60 lbs are huge, and generally unnecessary.  Pick a smaller/ shorter carseat that is RF until, say, 40 lbs, and it will fit better.

Our second kid was RF until two.  My husband is 6' tall.  We drive a Matrix and a Civic.  Totally do-able, but not with a Radian (too tall) or a Britax Marathon (26" tall).  You can shave a few inches by choosing a smaller seat.

Also, there are plenty of non-SUVs that actually have more backseat space than SUVs.  More leg room.  Better for carseats.

mm1970

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #20 on: September 11, 2017, 04:19:13 PM »
Thanks. Any other cars the size of a Camry folks can recommend?
Honda Accord

Monkey Uncle

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #21 on: September 11, 2017, 06:49:38 PM »
Thanks. Any other cars the size of a Camry folks can recommend?
Honda Accord

Great car, but the Camry costs less and is just as reliable.
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SuperSecretName

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #22 on: September 11, 2017, 06:56:51 PM »
You dont need a 19k car, you want a 19k car.

You can get a perfectly fine car that fits your needs for 10k

SC93

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #23 on: September 11, 2017, 07:56:10 PM »
What's wrong with these? Yep, they are in my area but I'm 100% sure you have some in your area too. I ask because I'm lost on the high dollar cars if you aren't paying cash. I only buy used for my businesses and I've never had a problem to speak of since the mid 90's. They usually last 3-6 years being driven A LOT every day.


https://dallas.craigslist.org/ndf/cto/d/2002-mazda-tribute/6302371327.html

https://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/cto/d/1995-honda-civic-need-gone/6302226415.html

freeazabird

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #24 on: September 11, 2017, 10:32:30 PM »
What's wrong with these? Yep, they are in my area but I'm 100% sure you have some in your area too. I ask because I'm lost on the high dollar cars if you aren't paying cash. I only buy used for my businesses and I've never had a problem to speak of since the mid 90's. They usually last 3-6 years being driven A LOT every day.


https://dallas.craigslist.org/ndf/cto/d/2002-mazda-tribute/6302371327.html

https://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/cto/d/1995-honda-civic-need-gone/6302226415.html

We've been looking on Craigslist for a few weeks for an old Camry. It's very challenging to get posters to reply. I don't know if it's because they are a hot commodity or what. At this point our car has broken down so we need something asap, because we have to use a rental for now. I guess I wil open my search up to more vehicles and see what happens. Thanks.
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SC93

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #25 on: September 11, 2017, 11:51:28 PM »
Do you know what happens if you ask 5 different people what kind of car to buy? #1 says to buy a Honda because no one makes them like Honda. #2 says to buy a Chevy because he has driven a Chevy his whole life and they never have problems. #3 says to buy a Toyota because Toyota builds a solid vehicle and you can't buy anything better. #4 says to buy a Dodge because he has driven his Dodge for 21 years and it is still going strong. #5 says to buy a Ford because Ford's have always been the best and his whole family drives Fords. Do you know what this proves? Just buy a car, if you are trying to fool yourself about which make and model is better then you are just wasting your time and your money on a rental. Set a small budget... listen to the car.... does it sound near perfect? Does it drive near perfect? Then just buy it. Do you know what happens if you buy a $2500 car and it breaks down? You can buy 3 more before you get to the point of where it would have been better to buy a $10,000 car! Do you know what happens if you buy a $10,000 car and it breaks down? You are in a much worse position than you are now!

AnnaGrowsAMustache

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #26 on: September 12, 2017, 02:06:31 AM »
This is purely a need vs want issue. You need a bigger car (or you say you need it). You want the model you mentioned. Buy for needs, not wants.

Bateaux

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #27 on: September 12, 2017, 02:34:05 AM »
Is you, must you be crazy?  Slap, facepunch, slap!  Now get rid of that BMW and buy a used Toyota or Honda for a 1/3 of that price.  Shop around, you'll find it.  I drive a 2008 Accord with nearly 200k miles, it runs great.  It's worth 1/10 of 1% of our net worth.  A car is not a status symbol.   
« Last Edit: September 12, 2017, 02:36:50 AM by Bateaux »
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freeazabird

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #28 on: September 12, 2017, 10:06:54 AM »
It appears I've been punched multiple times. Out of curiosity at what point do you feel I can afford the RAV4? Once I pay off my mortgage?
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Ze Stash

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #29 on: September 12, 2017, 10:19:10 AM »
It appears I've been punched multiple times. Out of curiosity at what point do you feel I can afford the RAV4? Once I pay off my mortgage?

Even though you might be able to afford the payments on that car now already, it simply is not a mustachian car and you buying it would not be approved on this forum even if your networth was significantly higher. There are cheaper cars that will accomplish exactly the same thing as the RAV4: transport your family safely from point A to point B.

mm1970

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #30 on: September 12, 2017, 10:25:02 AM »
It appears I've been punched multiple times. Out of curiosity at what point do you feel I can afford the RAV4? Once I pay off my mortgage?

When your net worth is higher, or when you have enough in savings to pay cash.  So, you know, generally people recommend that you have 6 months of expenses saved up...that sort of thing.

The other thing is that people are sensing that you have a "thing" for the RAV4, that maybe is not a healthy "thing".  I'm not one to judge.  Not a car person.  I really want a minivan, for example.  But I'm not going to buy one.  Even though it's a teeny fraction of our net worth.

farfromfire

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #31 on: September 12, 2017, 10:26:24 AM »
It appears I've been punched multiple times. Out of curiosity at what point do you feel I can afford the RAV4? Once I pay off my mortgage?
Why should you buy it just because you can afford it? It's a waste now, it'll be a waste later. How much of your yearly expenses does 19K buy? Is it really worth all that time?

Erica

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #32 on: September 12, 2017, 10:58:01 AM »
The best inexpensive car we ever had was a Saturn. My husband is tall but the seats went back far enough. It got great gas mileage! Our son used it during College. Cost under 5 K and lasted for years. Hardly did anything to it before re-selling it which later, was a regretful decision.

elaine amj

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #33 on: September 12, 2017, 11:43:36 AM »
It appears I've been punched multiple times. Out of curiosity at what point do you feel I can afford the RAV4? Once I pay off my mortgage?
I think the core of Mustachianism is not to crave fancy stuff just because. Yes, there are many things we can afford. But most typical luxuries are simply unnecessary. It's pretty cool to get to the point where u don't need the fancy trimmings and just focus on the practicals.

That said, I can get plenty of facepunches for my extravagant vacations. Most are on a shoestring, but every once in a while, we go over the top. And I'm fine with that and have consciously decided it is worth it to me.

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Dr.Jeckyl

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #34 on: September 12, 2017, 11:57:26 AM »
It appears I've been punched multiple times. Out of curiosity at what point do you feel I can afford the RAV4? Once I pay off my mortgage?

It all depends on your definition of afford. My definition of afford is different than most. First off, I'm a car guy. I crave a new car. But not just a new car, a new-to-me daily driver and a new-to-me fun car. I don't buy those even though I could because I know I would rather use that money towards earning my independence or for vacations and experiences. I shun the typical buy on credit cycle by saving my money until I have enough to pay for the item. The problem is every time I save enough money for the shiny new thing I usually dump that money into earning my independence even sooner.

Money is all about having options. Money should be used to first pay for things you need like a roof over your head, basic food, medical, a nest egg, etc... What you use the rest of your money for should be used in order of what will bring you the most happiness. So if the car brings you enough happiness that you are willing to delay your independence for another year or more then you have made your decision.

Briefly said, only you can decide if you can afford it.

SC93

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #35 on: September 12, 2017, 09:26:51 PM »
And with that all said and with me not liking payments (too hard to keep up with who to pay what & when)...... you only live 1 time. I have always lived while aging. We spend what we want but still save. You can be in the best health, exercise daily, eat what people call 'right' and have an accident and not be here tomorrow at this time. So you can live now while still saving for the future, just don't go too hog wild. I know that's not the way most here look at it but it's the truth. Just make damn sure that RAV4 is what you want for the future, not just this week/month/year. My life is beyond this now but I'm just saying how we did it before. Kind of like telling people to save and not retire until age 70 but in the same breath saying most males die before age 65. Or telling me to save like a mad man until 65 or 70..... and then what? Drive my Hoveround all over town? Not I, you gotta drive this life like you stole it. Who knows who will be alive at that time? I ain't taking chances :)

Finances_With_Purpose

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #36 on: September 12, 2017, 10:30:02 PM »
Stick with a cheaper car.  I questioned why you wanted to ditch yours...until you said mini-cooper.  Now I get it.  So ditch that and get something cheap/affordable.

FWIW, we bought a used Honda CRV for 12k with under 50k miles on it.  I suspect it'll be going strong well beyond a decade from now.  I mention it not to pitch CRVs - others are right that there are plenty of affordable options - but to show that there's yet another affordable option.  (We also paid cash for it - I would buy whatever you can with cash, or as cheap as possible.)  You don't want car debt OR an overpriced car.  Cars are rapidly wasting liabilities. 

Only caveat: if you absolutely love driving and spend your time there (truly value it) like Laura33, for instance, but otherwise, just go with something affordable that fits your true need: something to get you from A to B (without backaches).

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #37 on: September 13, 2017, 04:44:24 AM »
It appears I've been punched multiple times. Out of curiosity at what point do you feel I can afford the RAV4? Once I pay off my mortgage?

You don't need a RAV4.  And this forum is all about not wasting money on shit you don't need.

Now if you really, really want a RAV4, and you know up front that you'll have to trade a couple of years of financial independence for it, and you're o.k. with that, then by all means, go for it.  But don't expect us to justify that decision for you.
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Laura33

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #38 on: September 13, 2017, 06:34:11 AM »
It appears I've been punched multiple times. Out of curiosity at what point do you feel I can afford the RAV4? Once I pay off my mortgage?

So, as the designated car girl here, I will chime in:  when you have a plan for FIRE and are on track for your goals and can knowingly accept the tradeoffs that come with the "nicer" option.  And can pay cash.

That means after:

- You have an emergency fund sufficient for your situation and risk tolerance
- You have medical, life, and disability insurance if you have any kids/dependents
- You have no other debt except a mortgage and possibly student loans if they are below @4%*
- You are both maxing out your 401(k)s and IRAs/Roths, as applicable/available/appropriate for your FIRE plans
- You are saving sufficient additional money post-tax to meet your FIRE target date
- You are saving the amount you need to do whatever you plan for your kids' college
- You have a pot of extra money left over, and you and your SO would rather spend that on a new car than on moving your FIRE date forward or devoting more money to college or spending it on other lifestyle improvements, like a vacation**

Sorry.  You only get to use each dollar once, so you have to make sure the needs are covered before you can move on to the wants.

*0% CCs don't count if you are doing interest rate arbitrage

** FWIW, I just committed myself to @ 6 mos. additional work for my own stupid car (much more stupid than a Rav4).  Yes, it is not remotely Mustachian.  But I did the math first, considered how I felt about my job, and said ok, it's worth it.
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mm1970

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #39 on: September 13, 2017, 01:19:48 PM »
The best inexpensive car we ever had was a Saturn. My husband is tall but the seats went back far enough. It got great gas mileage! Our son used it during College. Cost under 5 K and lasted for years. Hardly did anything to it before re-selling it which later, was a regretful decision.
My Saturn must have been built on the Friday before a 3 day weekend.  It was a lemon.  We owned it for 9 years (it was 12 years old when we traded it in, got $450 on the trade in, which was generous!)

That damn thing would not run at all when it rained.  The battery would drain.  Nobody could ever figure it out.  Luckily in So Cal, we have a short rainy season.

The shit hit the fan the day I decided to be nice and get it run through the car wash for my hubby.  On the way home, the battery drained and it started to shut down.  First the power steering, then the brakes (had to roll through the stop signs).  By  the time I managed to get home (up hill!) the radio turned off. 

englishteacheralex

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #40 on: September 13, 2017, 01:32:34 PM »
Rav4s/CRVs are dumb. We researched the hell out of this two years ago (it's how I stumbled on MMM) and decided that with two small kids the best option was a Toyota Matrix/Pontiac Vibe (same car). Would have gotten a Ford Focus hatchback if we could have found one at the right price and with a good lookin' engine.

Honda Fits were hard to find used for <$5k, but they're pretty sweet. Corollas/Camrys/Civics/Accords=no hatchback=not awesome for families with kids because you want more storage room. We drove Corollas exclusively for 15 years before we had kids. The Matrix has the same engine and a hatchback and drives a bit higher and has a bit more headspace/legroom.

Bought our '03 stick shift Matrix with 95000 miles two years ago for $3300. Haven't put one cent into it except for maintenance. Love it. Great car. In July we sold our other Corolla and bought a 2009 Mazda 5 (mini-mini van) for $4600. That car is even better than the Matrix for a two kid family, but doesn't get as much gas mileage.

A $19k Rav4 is a great way to put a huge dent in any plans of financial independence. Totally unnecessary. Reconsider ASAP.
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Valhalla

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #41 on: September 13, 2017, 01:54:15 PM »
Only on MMM do you get a facepunch for wanting a $19k Rav4.   :)

I get it though, your expenses are absurdly high.  I'm curious why it's so high given your financials.

There are far worse cars to get in your situation.  However, a $10k car should be perfectly suitable for most families even they may not be the most sexy, just choose a reliable brand - Honda, Toyota.
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Optimiser

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #42 on: September 13, 2017, 02:13:23 PM »
It appears I've been punched multiple times. Out of curiosity at what point do you feel I can afford the RAV4? Once I pay off my mortgage?

My rules of thumb are:
1. when you can pay cash for it
2. when you have 6 months of expenses in an emergency fund
3. when the purchase price is less than 10% of your annual income

So if you have 58,000 in cash (19,000 for the car and 39,000 in the emergency fund) and make $15,800/month. Having said that, there are probably better choices than a RAV4, many of which have been mentioned here.

If I were in your shoes I would sell your Mini and buy something for less than $5,000.

freeazabird

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #43 on: September 18, 2017, 08:11:57 PM »
I would like to thank you all for punching me in the face, I deserved it. (Never thought I'd ever say those words. I decided to pass on the RAV4. Shockingly it did not fit our car seat well. I decided to be more responsible and buy a Camry instead. Thanks for snaking some sense into me and saving me thousands of dollars.
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okits

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #44 on: September 18, 2017, 10:36:28 PM »
I would like to thank you all for punching me in the face, I deserved it. (Never thought I'd ever say those words. I decided to pass on the RAV4. Shockingly it did not fit our car seat well. I decided to be more responsible and buy a Camry instead. Thanks for snaking some sense into me and saving me thousands of dollars.

High five!  Thanks for the update, I was happy to hear you went for the Camry.  I hope it proves sturdy, reliable, and comfortable. 

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #45 on: Today at 04:46:39 AM »
I would like to thank you all for punching me in the face, I deserved it. (Never thought I'd ever say those words. I decided to pass on the RAV4. Shockingly it did not fit our car seat well. I decided to be more responsible and buy a Camry instead. Thanks for snaking some sense into me and saving me thousands of dollars.

Congrats on making the sensible choice!
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MrMoneySaver

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #46 on: Today at 10:06:18 AM »
Looks like the issue is resolved. But just to chime in. The RAV4 is not the high-dollar luxury vehicle that many here are making it out to be. It's pretty much a small, lower-end SUV. It is not in any way, shape or form a luxury vehicle.

And at $19,000 I don't think it's make-or-break for financial independence, especially if you plan to drive it for a long time.

That doesn't mean you should have gotten it. I just think some of the answers here were a bit dramatic.

But anyway, to each their own.

Optimiser

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #47 on: Today at 11:32:29 AM »
Looks like the issue is resolved. But just to chime in. The RAV4 is not the high-dollar luxury vehicle that many here are making it out to be. It's pretty much a small, lower-end SUV. It is not in any way, shape or form a luxury vehicle.

And at $19,000 I don't think it's make-or-break for financial independence, especially if you plan to drive it for a long time.

That doesn't mean you should have gotten it. I just think some of the answers here were a bit dramatic.

But anyway, to each their own.

What is or isn't luxury, depends entirely on what you compare it to.

Nice job OP. I hope the Camry works great for you. I love hearing when people make better choices.

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #48 on: Today at 12:25:52 PM »
This is a choice your future self will thank you for, good job!
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