I used to work in Denmark where the minimum wage is close to $20/hr equivalent and
1) there is literally no unemployment whatsoever.
2) Pretty much every hotel and many restaurants are understaffed.
3) There is no homelessness unless it's by choice and
4) there is free healthcare.
5) Taxes are sky high yet
6) their standard of living is better than it is in the USA for the average person.
7) Where I worked, factory workers with no higher education were making about the same or more than I was with an engineering degree and they get 6 weeks paid vacation plus about 20 paid holidays.
8) Americans have sold out in so many ways by taking whatever short term gains they can with absolutely no regard for the long term consequences.
9) We deserve the $hit we're in now for sure.
10) Too bad so many are innocent victims, including our own children...
I thought I might chime in here, as a Dane, that lives and works in Denmark, but is also married to an American, and have seen a good chunk of America (more than my wife actually).
The first comment about our minimum wage is untrue - in a way.
In Denmark almost everything about the labour market is not regulated by law, but by negotiations between the unions of employers and employees. That means that there are no law stating the minimum wage, nor about how much pension you get, how much vacation you get and so forth.
It also means that even if you are not a part of a labour union yourself, if your workplace is covered by one of these agreements, you also benefit from it. This means that the system is open for freeloaders of course, which is a problem, and an increasing one.
That's a pretty important point to understand, because it makes for a vastly different labour market when the politicians are keeping their hands out of it. It also requires strong labour unions and strong employers unions, and that these two parties have to be somewhat equal in strength.
Your estimate of 20$/hour is correct though - that is the minimum wage for employees covered by most union negotiations, but again it varies.
Now to comment on your list of points:
1) There are unemployment, both willing and unwilling unemployment. As of may 2015 it is 4,8%. That may not be much compared to other countries, but it exists, and is terrible for the people who are unwillingly unemployed.
Denmark have a very flexible labour market, so its fairly easy (cost & regulationwise) for employers to fire people, but there is a great safety net, and it can be easier to get hired.
Now to that picture needs to added, that the economists say that we NEED unemployment of around 3% at least, to make sure that the wages are not pressed higher due to businesses competing for skilled labour, so if that is true, then ideally there will always have to be some people that are unemployed, but also that it is not the same people forever.
2) I don't think every hotel or restaurant consider themselves understaffed. I think it depends on what you are used to. For instance my experience is that most supermarket in the US seem vastly overstaffed, even in the middle of the night I see several employees seemingly just hanging around, because there is nothing to do and really no customers.
I guess this example shows the difference between the 2 systems, which makes it interesting considering the relatively low unemployment rate in both systems.
3) In my opinion, then this is BS. There are homeless people, and rarely if ever by choice. Hard lives leads to homelessness, plus we also get a lot of homeless people from eastern Europe in Copenhagen for instance, and they may be in Copenhagen by choice, but I am pretty sure none are homeless by choice.
4) Yes, it's part of the safety net. Nobody benefits from having people get sick and not be able to get back on their feet again (and become a productive member of society)
5) "Sky high" is relative. I think taxes should be judged not by the percentage, but by the efficiency of how that money is spent, and how much you then benefit from it. If you paid a 100% in taxes and all your wishes and needs were met, then who cares what the tax percentage is. If you paid a 100% are your needs are barely met, then that is of course a terribly inefficient and unfair system.
6) This I do believe is true. On average. The US have people that are better educated, richer, healthier and happier than any in Denmark. But it also have a lot of people that are the opposite. In this, the US compared to Denmark, really is a nation of extremes. I think for the average guy, you would be better off in a system similiar to the one in Denmark.
7-8) Can't really comment on that.
9) I disagree with that wholeheartedly. The average American does not deserve the system they live in. Most everyone I've ever talked to in the US about these things wanted a change, wishing things were different, but saw little to no way of making that change.
You can say that you get the politicians you deserve, but that is only true if it truly is 1 man - 1 vote. That is not how things are though, money=power and money is certainly not distributed evenly in the US or most places in the world. In the US the money=power issue may just be more pronounced than in some other western democracies (Citizens United and what you).
Long story short - I think part of this whole discussion tends to show a darker side of the MMM philosophy if we can call it that. As some people succeed in achieving their goals (ie. FI), they are blinded to all the fortunes they had along the way, that made it possible for them to succeed. This leads to an inability to empathize with those that have not succeeded (yet), and only being able to see all the flaws in the ones they point their finger at. I kind of want to say "You didn't build that!", whenever it crops up on our forums :-)
I think most everyday people actually would like to be where many of you are today, but not everyone have a hand that made it possible, at least yet. Instead of looking down upon people and think "sheep!", then it would be nice to see if all the resourcefulness of the MMM community couldn't try and make a positive difference - A financial "Habitat for humanity" or something :-)
Apologies for the lenght and the slight derail, hopefully it had some informative or interesting bits along the way. :-)
