Author Topic: A high paying job  (Read 687 times)

Skyhigh

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A high paying job
« on: November 12, 2019, 03:50:30 PM »
I see a lot of discussion about frugality and articles about people who pay off 120K in student debt over 14 months and it seems to me that they are leaving out some important information. In order to be able to save a lot one must earn a lot. Americanís commonly barely eek out an existence. There is no surplus income to conserve. No room in the budget to cut to a meaningful degree. In the common experience of this group it seems that the first step to achieving FIRE is a high paying career.

The second seems to be no children.

Skyhigh
« Last Edit: November 12, 2019, 03:53:43 PM by Skyhigh »

mathlete

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Re: A high paying job
« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2019, 04:20:22 PM »
Yes.

The crux of most FIRE stories is that someone lived a comfortable, middle-class lifestyle while earning far greater that the middle income necessary to support it. Bonus points for marketing this as extreme financial discipline and make a few bucks while you're at it.

It's attractive to say that the math technically scales at any income. But there are hard limits to what most reasonable, first world people are willing to accept.

If I made tens of thousands less than I do, I certainly would not be pursuing FIRE. The lifestyle and experiences I'd have to lose wouldn't be worth it to get the high savings rate needed.

spartana

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Re: A high paying job
« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2019, 04:22:55 PM »
Not everyone goes in debt going to school. Schlorships, trade schools, military service (earned 2 degrees for free using the GI Bill from military service plus good technical training while), the banks of mommy and daddy.

Many start working and saving early even with low incomes. They live like college kids of old crammed into a small shared space drinking instant coffee instead of Starbucks and invest the extra.

They buy modest homes, if at all, do some shared living even once older or evenarried, some don't have kids, or cars, or fancy vacations. Not a glamorous life but it can be nice and get you to FI.

jim555

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Re: A high paying job
« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2019, 04:26:57 PM »
In the other thread OP was saying he gave up on retirement.  I still think you are a troll looking for a rise out of us.

Telecaster

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Re: A high paying job
« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2019, 07:16:50 PM »
I see a lot of discussion about frugality and articles about people who pay off 120K in student debt over 14 months and it seems to me that they are leaving out some important information. In order to be able to save a lot one must earn a lot. Americanís commonly barely eek out an existence. There is no surplus income to conserve. No room in the budget to cut to a meaningful degree. In the common experience of this group it seems that the first step to achieving FIRE is a high paying career.

The second seems to be no children.

Skyhigh

In that case, I recommend you get a high paying job and don't have kids. 

spartana

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Re: A high paying job
« Reply #5 on: November 12, 2019, 08:22:59 PM »
In the other thread OP was saying he gave up on retirement.  I still think you are a troll looking for a rise out of us.
Oops just saw the name. Didn't realize it was the same person who started all those threads. He started several new similar posts today besides the older similar ones. Good luck OP. Hope you find what you are looking for.   https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/post-fire/i-don't-want-to-retire/
« Last Edit: November 12, 2019, 08:29:11 PM by spartana »

rantk81

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Re: A high paying job
« Reply #6 on: Today at 06:15:25 AM »
What is the point of this thread?  The OP mentions that he/she sees some posts about people who pay off debt, and mention that they must have high income and no kids?

So what?

@OP - Go do whatever you want.  Try to get a higher paying job, or not.  Try to pursue FIRE or not.  Do whatever.  The path to FIRE (or not FIRE) is different for everyone.  Instead of trying to compare your situation to others, why not focus on improving your situation if you aren't happy with it?

Malkynn

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Re: A high paying job
« Reply #7 on: Today at 06:34:05 AM »
OP-

Didn't *YOU* reach FIRE really young without a high income while raising kids??

DadJokes

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Re: A high paying job
« Reply #8 on: Today at 06:38:53 AM »
I guess it's not possible then. Let's pack it up- the FIRE thing was fun while it lasted.



Can everyone FIRE? No, and I don't think anyone worth taking serious claims that. MMM's blog is aimed at middle class spendypants, not low income individuals who struggle to get by. They're different groups with entirely different problems.

Malkynn

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Re: A high paying job
« Reply #9 on: Today at 07:13:58 AM »
I guess it's not possible then. Let's pack it up- the FIRE thing was fun while it lasted.



Can everyone FIRE? No, and I don't think anyone worth taking serious claims that. MMM's blog is aimed at middle class spendypants, not low income individuals who struggle to get by. They're different groups with entirely different problems.

Many in the ERE community disagree with you, and MMM himself has written several times about how Mustachianism is actually even more relevant for those with lower incomes.

The opposite of FIRE is not retiring at normal retirement age, the opposite of FIRE is mindless spending and letting that mindless spending dictate when/if you can retire.

So if someone can afford to retire at all, they can probably afford to retire earlier through more mindful spending and frugality.

Can everyone retire very young, while sustaining a "normal" middle class lifestyle, in any area of the world, at any level of income? Obviously not, but no one ever claimed that. Nor should FIRE be looked at through the automatic lense of sustaining a certain lifestyle. That may be the most common goal, but it's not a given for everyone.

Claiming that lower income people can't FIRE is nonsense. It is however, fair to say that for a lot of people on lower incomes that the lifestyle trade offs they would have to make to retire very early are often not considered worth it.

When people talk about how easy it is for high income people to achieve FIRE, what they're really saying is that it's far more comfortable for a high income person to voluntarily live at a socioeconomic lifestyle level far beneath the level they could afford to live at if they chose to spend the majority of their income and work much longer.

Whereas, it's far more uncomfortable for a lower income person to live at a significantly lower socioeconomic lifestyle level than working into their senior years would provide.

None of that means that lower income people should be less mindful of their spending than higher income people. It just means that each trade off to retire earlier may feel less worth it.

FIRE for high income people requires a return to a more "average" lifestyle, whereas FIRE for lower income people requires a departure from it.