What is with the toilet paper hoarding?

[MrsPennyPincher]

In Soviet Union, people used newspapers in case of TP shortages... Subscribe to WSJ and you will be fine!t

[HBFIRE]

FOMO herd mentality.  People assume because the group is doing it, there must be a reason.  It's human herd psychology that's genetically wired in us.  Oftentimes it's good for survival, but also it can lead to silliness like this case.

[Firehazard]

Know what's nice?  Going to Walmart to buy a pack of TP that you actually need (along with other groceries), and finding that the Walmart Great Value knockoff version of Scotts TP (my friend refers to Scotts as 'prison toilet paper') is the only kind left on the shelves.  There's plenty of it because nobody wants it except for you, the frugal Mustachian.  Because you've been using it all along.

[big_owl]

People hoard TP for the same reason everybody has to rush the aircraft boarding line as soon as the first jackass gets out of his seat and starts the line 20min early.

Whatever, two weeks ago I told my wife she better order a whole bunch of TP on boxed.com before it was too late. She laughed at me for a few days but finally gave in and ordered and guess what, shipment was delayed because of stock issues.  Luckily it came through so we have almost 100 rolls of TP in house. It doesn't go bad and we'll obviously use them over time so I'm fine with it.  Plus when you've had IBS for 39yrs the thought of going without TP and using reusable cloth is PTSD level anxiety. Immodium only gets you so far.

[hops]

You never know why someone's stocking up on toilet paper. We didn't have to buy any -- we keep a ton on hand because I have Crohn's and a j-pouch and we know we'll use it sooner than later -- but my parents recently bought a bunch because they're caregivers for an elderly person with dementia who has essentially forgotten how to use toilet paper and runs through a roll every one to three days as a result. If they were all stuck at home for weeks, it would disappear very quickly.

[lost_in_the_endless_aisle]

I don't think everyone *is* hoarding toilet paper.  You've got your handful of nutcases who probably are, but when the word gets out that people are hoarding toilet paper, everybody else goes, "hmm, I've only got a week's worth, better buy a pack," or "I guess I should grab an extra pack when I'm at the store, if it's going to be sold out."  And when all the "normal" people buy ONE pack of toilet paper that they weren't otherwise planning on buying, you suddenly have a situation that the supply chain was not prepared for.

I think it's not exactly hoarding that people are doing.  I think it's a combination of two other things:

1.  I think we have (had?) a finely tuned supply chain for most things.  TP would be at the top of the list in terms of supply chain tuning because it's got a simple supply chain (some trees, some bleach, some plastic wrap), the demand is easily predictable (usually), and it's probably all made here in the US, so lead time isn't even a problem.

With a Virus going around, people decide to stock up buy buying an extra 4/6/12-pack of TP.  Not a big deal to just buy some extra just in case.  But if everyone does it, the finely balanced supply chain that was expecting a constant demand gets hit with a demand shock.

2.  Once part 1 happens, people notice it happening.  This creates media attention and a FOMO-type / "bank run" type of scenario where people are afraid that there won't be TP there when they need it, so they stock up even more, which just exacerbates the problem.

Pretty much the same story with bottled water.

I'm sure the manufacturers' demand planners and manufacturing folks are hard at work trying to figure out if they need to make more product to alleviate the situation, as well as how much more and when.  That is probably hard to predict, although I'm betting that with TP the manufacturers realize that people, in aggregate, probably won't use any more over time, so there will just be an excess inventory in people's bathrooms, and when people realize it's not the End of the World As We Know It, they'll settle down and use up the excess.  So TP manufacturers likely will stay the course, as will bottled water people.  Hand sanitizer and Clorox wipes and such probably will ramp up production as there will probably be above average use of those for a while.

I'd guess that all of these products can be ramped up fairly quickly (weeks), and I personally think the panic will subside soon, so all in all a short-lived phenomenon IMHO.

I think these are the best answers. Inventory Management 101 is the better your demand forecast and the lower your lead-time variability, the less safety stock you need for a given in-stock rate. Something that works incredibly well until it doesn't... I'm going to point out that retailers should have raised prices sharply but people who don't understand economics will complain about "gouging" and maybe the demand surge was too fast to do anything about.

In Soviet Union, people used newspapers in case of TP shortages... Subscribe to WSJ and you will be fine!t

When in the USSR visiting family in my youth, we used newspaper exclusively; I don't know that it was widely available outside of the biggest two or three cities, barring the black market.

[Free Spirit]

Know what's nice?  Going to Walmart to buy a pack of TP that you actually need (along with other groceries), and finding that the Walmart Great Value knockoff version of Scotts TP (my friend refers to Scotts as 'prison toilet paper') is the only kind left on the shelves.  There's plenty of it because nobody wants it except for you, the frugal Mustachian.  Because you've been using it all along.

This! I prefer the Walmart brand to any other but maybe it’s because I was raised on John Wayne tp.

[frugalnacho]

Know what's nice?  Going to Walmart to buy a pack of TP that you actually need (along with other groceries), and finding that the Walmart Great Value knockoff version of Scotts TP (my friend refers to Scotts as 'prison toilet paper') is the only kind left on the shelves.  There's plenty of it because nobody wants it except for you, the frugal Mustachian.  Because you've been using it all along.

Why not just buy sand paper? Same effect.

[Leisured]

My BF regularly has to make emergency runs to the store for TP.  It's, like, the main reason I won't be living with him - I cannot deal with (what seems to me like) his complete unwillingness to think ahead.

I think it is a variation on living paycheck to paycheck. You must not be seen thinking ahead. I think it is a working class mindset. Only middle class nerds think ahead.

I am old enough to remember newspaper being used as toilet paper in an outdoors toilet, where the containers were taken away. I suspect that newspaper would not go well in a flush toilet.

[GuitarStv]

Know what's nice?  Going to Walmart to buy a pack of TP that you actually need (along with other groceries), and finding that the Walmart Great Value knockoff version of Scotts TP (my friend refers to Scotts as 'prison toilet paper') is the only kind left on the shelves.  There's plenty of it because nobody wants it except for you, the frugal Mustachian.  Because you've been using it all along.

Why not just buy sand paper? Same effect.

I exclusively buy the lowest ply, highest grit, cheapest toilet paper.  That soft stuff doesn't grip as well.  :P

[frugalnacho]

Exactly.  Keep your butthole clean with a constant flow of fresh blood because you've been using scotts tp. 

[frugalnacho]

[MilesTeg]

Went shopping last night, my usual late night run. Usually it's me and the stockers, which is my preferred shopping experience. But last night there were several other shoppers. Most clearly in hording mode with carts full of bulk items. One guy had two carts he was sheparding.

Looks like panic mode has been activated fully here in CO. The store (super center) was cleaned out of rice, beans, pasta, peanut butter, most canned goods, most frozen veggies, flour, bottled water, paper products, liquid hand soaps, most cleaning products except laundry soap, first aid supplies, etc.

Looks like a few things above were being restocked, but not all. I was annoyed only by the total lack of cleaning products and frozen veggies.

For kicks I looked on amazon and pretty much all their TP and other paper products are 'unavailable at this time'.

[John Galt incarnate!]

Here is Peter Noel Murray on why people are hoarding TP.


“In this case the cognitive factor is cognitive bias. We tend to overemphasize things that are recent and very vivid."

“When there’s a plane crash people don’t fly. When there’s a shark attack people think all sharks are killers. That process makes us think that whatever the current thing is, it’s similar to some terrible thing — it catastrophizes our view of whatever this thing is.”


“On the emotional side, the answer is self-affirmation. In our minds we know one day we are going to be dead, and the mind deals with it through seeking control.”

“There’s an over-representation of fear and people’s minds need to respond to those kinds of feelings. The need for self-affirmation is triggered, and that drives us to do unreasonable things like buying a year’s worth of toilet paper. It overwhelms the knowledge that we don’t need to be doing that.”   

Peter Noel Murray is a New York-based member of the American Psychological Association and the Society for Consumer Psychology.

[Bird In Hand]

The hoarders' actions have a ripple effect on those of us not following the herd.  When doing my regular weekly grocery shopping -- which includes buying a pack of TP -- it is perfectly rational to see the low stock and pick up two packs instead of the usual one pack, fearing that the hoarders are going to...wipe out the supply before I visit the store next week.  While I feel a little self-conscious with two packs at the checkout line, I put on my most charmin' smile and mention that I have a large family, all of whom have IBS.  I thereby hope to dispel any notion that I'm going to leave the store just to ply my extra rolls on the TP black market.

[OtherJen]

Okay, people have lost their damn minds.

Our little neighborhood Aldi is a free-for-all, with people in masks shoveling cases of orange juice and cool whip in their carts and ignoring the “limit 3 gallons” sign on the milk case. The store is completely out of flour and meat (except corned beef) and most fresh fruit. Fortunately, bacon, kale, cabbage, mushrooms, plain yogurt, and limes don’t seem popular so I bought one pack of each (all on my list before the shit hit the fan) and a corned beef brisket.

[mm1970]

There was literally no TP at any store I've stopped at in 4 days.  Costco, Home Depot, Trader Joe's, target, staples.

I decided to order some in bulk from Staples. We'll see if they actually have it and can deliver it.

If not, there are alternatives.  We probably have enough for #2, just not for the one female (me) if I'm stuck at home.
I was remembering the post-birth peri bottle option...and air dry.  I can make that happen.
Also "family cloth", if it comes to that.  (Or kula cloth).

Good idea. I just ordered some from Staples too. They say it will be delivered tomorrow.

Mine actually shipped!  From TX.  Supposed to come Tuesday.  I'm in California.

But more to the original post.

They have not closed our schools ... yet.  Parents are either scared they will or pissed that they won't.  Next week is a minimum day week (conferences) for elementary.  Conferences will be by phone.  All travel and large group things have been canceled.  As it is, school is still happening.

The week after that is spring break.  I expect that the district will add a week or two to the end of spring break.  We currently have no diagnosed cases in the county.

However, if they DO close school for up to a month - I have done the math, I would need approx 40-48 rolls of TP.  In a typical 2 week period, when we spend 50 hours a week at work and at school, we go through half that.  If we are quarantined a month?  Those 18 rolls I have won't last.  Thank goodness I'm the only female in the house.

Some people may be hoarding, but others might just be doing the math on how much they need for a month of quarantine.

[bacchi]

I was at the store when the frenzy started but didn't want to wade into the crowds. I had about 1-2 weeks left of TP so no problem.

I went back yesterday and the aisle was picked clean of every paper product. No tp, no paper towels, no nose tissue.

I am now down to 2 rolls. I should've thrown some elbows and dove into the panicked crowds when I had the chance. Our only hope is for spring to arrive with its soft, new growth, leaves.

[GuitarStv]

Okay, people have lost their damn minds.

Our little neighborhood Aldi is a free-for-all, with people in masks shoveling cases of orange juice and cool whip in their carts and ignoring the “limit 3 gallons” sign on the milk case. The store is completely out of flour and meat (except corned beef) and most fresh fruit. Fortunately, bacon, kale, cabbage, mushrooms, plain yogurt, and limes don’t seem popular so I bought one pack of each (all on my list before the shit hit the fan) and a corned beef brisket.

Wouldn't corned beef be a great thing to buy as a long lasting quarantine staple?

[OtherJen]

Okay, people have lost their damn minds.

Our little neighborhood Aldi is a free-for-all, with people in masks shoveling cases of orange juice and cool whip in their carts and ignoring the “limit 3 gallons” sign on the milk case. The store is completely out of flour and meat (except corned beef) and most fresh fruit. Fortunately, bacon, kale, cabbage, mushrooms, plain yogurt, and limes don’t seem popular so I bought one pack of each (all on my list before the shit hit the fan) and a corned beef brisket.

Wouldn't corned beef be a great thing to buy as a long lasting quarantine staple?

One would think. I only grabbed one because I didn’t have a cart, but I might go back on Monday morning to grab a few more.

[frugalnacho]

[ChickenStash]

I bought a bidet add-on for the toilet. I figured it's a more long-term solution. lol

I've been wanting to buy one for some time and finally decided to go for it. Cost about the same as 3 Costco TP mega-packages. I guess I'm lucky I ran out a few weeks before the panic and was able to resupply normally.

[GuitarStv]

I bought a bidet add-on for the toilet.

There's already a shower head in my bathroom.  No need for a second one.  :P

[Glenstache]

Why buy a lot of toilet paper? Probably because people heard the shit was going to hit the fan. And what else do people clean shit up with?

[John Galt incarnate!]

The hoarders' actions have a ripple effect on those of us not following the herd.  When doing my regular weekly grocery shopping -- which includes buying a pack of TP -- it is perfectly rational to see the low stock and pick up two packs instead of the usual one pack, fearing that the hoarders are going to...wipe out the supply before I visit the store next week.  While I feel a little self-conscious with two packs at the checkout line, I put on my most charmin' smile and mention that I have a large family, all of whom have IBS.  I thereby hope to dispel any notion that I'm going to leave the store just to ply my extra rolls on the TP black market.

I hereby, nominate  one Bird In Hand, for the esteemed position of Master Punster of Mu$tacian$.

And I like his/her signature line too!

[Bird In Hand]

The hoarders' actions have a ripple effect on those of us not following the herd.  When doing my regular weekly grocery shopping -- which includes buying a pack of TP -- it is perfectly rational to see the low stock and pick up two packs instead of the usual one pack, fearing that the hoarders are going to...wipe out the supply before I visit the store next week.  While I feel a little self-conscious with two packs at the checkout line, I put on my most charmin' smile and mention that I have a large family, all of whom have IBS.  I thereby hope to dispel any notion that I'm going to leave the store just to ply my extra rolls on the TP black market.

I hereby, nominate  one Bird In Hand, for the esteemed position of Master Punster of Mu$tacian$.

And I like his/her signature line too!

Thank you!  I expect to roll with this nomination right to the winners' podium.  I advise all others in the running for Master Punster to fold immediately, or risk being utterly crumpled.  And in the latter case, I will not be the one to clean up the mess; that will be left to your hands alone.

[teen persuasion]

Okay, people have lost their damn minds.

Our little neighborhood Aldi is a free-for-all, with people in masks shoveling cases of orange juice and cool whip in their carts and ignoring the “limit 3 gallons” sign on the milk case. The store is completely out of flour and meat (except corned beef) and most fresh fruit. Fortunately, bacon, kale, cabbage, mushrooms, plain yogurt, and limes don’t seem popular so I bought one pack of each (all on my list before the shit hit the fan) and a corned beef brisket.

Wild!

Just got back from our nearest Aldi, TP was the only thing they were out of, everything else was pretty normally available.  TP was the only paper product missing.  As this is a respiratory illness, I'd expect tissues to be in higher demand, or paper towels for cleaning/disinfecting/disposable hand washing, but they weren't touched.

Limit 3 on milk, though, that's different - years back when all my kids were still at home, I regularly got 7-8 gal of milk per week.  I think they might have a limit 6 sign up now, but 2-3 gal per week is good for the 3 of us now.

[J.R. Ewing]

Does anyone know how to make a home made bidet from common items found around the house?  Asking for a friend. 

[GuitarStv]

Does anyone know how to make a home made bidet from common items found around the house?  Asking for a friend.

Step 1 - Lift shower head from cradle
Step 2 - Complete!

[Alternatepriorities]

I think it's a combination of people anticipating a quarantine for at least 2 weeks (probably more), people anticipating being ill for a few weeks with coronavirus and unable to leave their homes, and plain old panic.

I think it's time to question your life choices if you typically keep less than 14 days of toilet paper on hand.

Amen!

[frugalnacho]

Does anyone know how to make a home made bidet from common items found around the house?  Asking for a friend.

Step 1 - Lift shower head from cradle
Step 2 - Complete!

Instructions unclear.  Gave myself massive enema. 

[Alternatepriorities]

just came here to say it's...

for when the shit hits the fan.

But seriously, I'm with OP. I usually have 'what I'm using plus one'. When my ketchup is empty, I pull out the 'plus one', and put ketchup on the grocery list. I've also accidentally thought I was almost out of TP twice in the past so I have an overstock.

Yeah that's how our house usually functions too. DW and I did that last fall... We still haven't broken into the second Kirkland pack. Yesterday I was at Costco and they had TP... I decided not to be an ass since we still have plenty. It's interesting to think that as Mustachians we have more options to hoard than most people because we have more money but most of us clearly are not. I did buy an extra half gallon of mayo, but only because it was on sale and doesn't go bad.

It was a little weird going through the line with my normal costco groceries while everyone around is in total chaos stocking up. Like others mentioned it's weird to feel like I needed to defend my normal purchases from accusations of hoarding... I also had to buy one lb blocks of butter because they were out of the regular sticks...

[ixtap]

just came here to say it's...

for when the shit hits the fan.

But seriously, I'm with OP. I usually have 'what I'm using plus one'. When my ketchup is empty, I pull out the 'plus one', and put ketchup on the grocery list. I've also accidentally thought I was almost out of TP twice in the past so I have an overstock.

Yeah that's how our house usually functions too. DW and I did that last fall... We still haven't broken into the second Kirkland pack. Yesterday I was at Costco and they had TP... I decided not to be an ass since we still have plenty. It's interesting to think that as Mustachians we have more options to hoard than most people because we have more money but most of us clearly are not. I did buy an extra half gallon of mayo, but only because it was on sale and doesn't go bad.

It was a little weird going through the line with my normal costco groceries while everyone around is in total chaos stocking up. Like others mentioned it's weird to feel like I needed to defend my normal purchases from accusations of hoarding... I also had to buy one lb blocks of butter because they were out of the regular sticks...

I have been buying a bit more. Last week I stocked up on some non perishables because I had just finished a clean out the cupboards goal and decided now wasn't a good time for bare cupboards. This week, I bought enough that I shouldn't have to go back for a whole week, vs our normal 2x a week shopping. The stores are crazy and I don't want to go more often for my mental health, much less my physical health.

[Alternatepriorities]

Does anyone know how to make a home made bidet from common items found around the house?  Asking for a friend.

Step 1 - Lift shower head from cradle
Step 2 - Complete!

Instructions unclear.  Gave myself massive enema.

Probably took care of tomorrow too then.

[Alternatepriorities]

just came here to say it's...

for when the shit hits the fan.

But seriously, I'm with OP. I usually have 'what I'm using plus one'. When my ketchup is empty, I pull out the 'plus one', and put ketchup on the grocery list. I've also accidentally thought I was almost out of TP twice in the past so I have an overstock.

Yeah that's how our house usually functions too. DW and I did that last fall... We still haven't broken into the second Kirkland pack. Yesterday I was at Costco and they had TP... I decided not to be an ass since we still have plenty. It's interesting to think that as Mustachians we have more options to hoard than most people because we have more money but most of us clearly are not. I did buy an extra half gallon of mayo, but only because it was on sale and doesn't go bad.

It was a little weird going through the line with my normal costco groceries while everyone around is in total chaos stocking up. Like others mentioned it's weird to feel like I needed to defend my normal purchases from accusations of hoarding... I also had to buy one lb blocks of butter because they were out of the regular sticks...

I have been buying a bit more. Last week I stocked up on some non perishables because I had just finished a clean out the cupboards goal and decided now wasn't a good time for bare cupboards. This week, I bought enough that I shouldn't have to go back for a whole week, vs our normal 2x a week shopping. The stores are crazy and I don't want to go more often for my mental health, much less my physical health.

terrible timing...

That's the best reason I can think of for hoarding right now...

[YYK]

I was at the store on Wednesday and didn't notice any panic. My state's only got a couple confirmed cases so far, both from travellers to Italy, so I guess panic hasn't totally set in yet. I don't use much tp so the 9-pack I just opened a week ago will last me until next winter probably. Consequently, I didn't even check the tp aisle. They were strangely completely out of dry milk, an item I usually buy once every other month and which was on my list this time. I attributed it to stocking inefficiencies since the store is being remodeled. Actually, while writing this I remembered that they were also totally out of isopropanol, which I also happened to need a bottle of. Maybe the world really is ending.

[YYK]

I do know that there have been panics in Hong Kong and Japan over toilet paper, and sell-outs in Australia. That's probably crystallized in people's minds as "we're all going to run out of toilet paper and it will be anarchy!"

I suspect that this is where it started. I heard from someone in Japan that the panic started since trade with China is totally shut down, and they were worried that toilet paper would dry up. Ironically, according to the same source, Japanese tp is made domestically.

[GuitarStv]

Does anyone know how to make a home made bidet from common items found around the house?  Asking for a friend.

Step 1 - Lift shower head from cradle
Step 2 - Complete!

Instructions unclear.  Gave myself massive enema.

Your water pressure must be significantly better than mine.

[BDWW]

Does anyone know how to make a home made bidet from common items found around the house?  Asking for a friend.

Step 1 - Lift shower head from cradle
Step 2 - Complete!

Instructions unclear.  Gave myself massive enema.

Your water pressure must be significantly better than mine.

More enemas = less pooping, less pooping = less tp. Genius!

[the_fixer]

Cut out the middle man (aka toilet) and take your morning dump in the shower.

No wasted toilet paper and no need for a bidet.

Kidding of course cause that sounds nasty :o






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[Buffaloski Boris]

As I explained to DW a week ago as I bought 2 things of TP at Costco. (As she rolled her eyes).  Yeah, it's stupid.  But it's not what you or I think, it's what crowds are going to do.

[SunnyDays]

A spray bottle and a hairdryer are cheepo substitutes for a bidet attachment!

Last night the news posted a list of virus symptoms, and "diarrhea" was on it.  So maybe people aren't so crazy.

One of the local grocery stores was pretty busy this PM, but maybe it's normal because I generally don't shop on Friday afternoons (or weekends) and there were noticeable bare spots on the shelves, but I attribute that to the sale vultures that prevail around here.  There was still some TP left, but only smaller packages.  Glad I started stocking up a few weeks ago and am basically done.

[big_owl]

Well our household assistant did her grocery run today and sent pictures of empty shelves and stock gone missing. Hoarding is for real. Lucky we have our TP so that's not a problem.  Living on the Chesapeake bay there's no shortage of water and we have a year's worth of food in the house so I'm cool. Bring on the apocalypse.

[Roland of Gilead]

TBH I wasn't totally sure a few weeks ago that some part of our toilet paper was not made in China and the supply would be disrupted.  Maybe the outer plastic wrapper material or maybe something else.  It just seems like all we make in the USA is street tacos and movies.

So I bought some 2 month supply of TP three weeks ago and now I watch as the store has a line running out the building to get the last couple rolls.

[GuitarStv]

Cut out the middle man (aka toilet) and take your morning dump in the shower.

No wasted toilet paper and no need for a bidet.

Kidding of course cause that sounds nasty :o






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I dunno . . . if you have enema level water pressure from your shower head, you can probably just blast the turds down the drain without too much issue.

[frugalnacho]

Cut out the middle man (aka toilet) and take your morning dump in the shower.

No wasted toilet paper and no need for a bidet.

Kidding of course cause that sounds nasty :o






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Fomerly known as something]

I’m glad I make my bulk TP purchases from Amazon, only the person who packs the box can judge me.

[Freedomin5]

The newspaper in Toronto just published an article about how the largest toilet paper supplier has enough raw materials to meet the increased demand for toilet paper, so no one has to worry about not having toilet paper when they need it.

Their tldr: Folks, there’s plenty of toilet paper to go around!

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/article-plenty-of-toilet-paper-to-go-around-canadas-biggest-producer-kruger/

[American GenX]

Just counted up my rolls.   I have about 300 regular sized rolls equivalent.

I bought most of these back in January and bought one pack two weeks ago, so I was set before the panic buying began.

[American GenX]

Why buy a lot of toilet paper? Probably because people heard the shit was going to hit the fan. And what else do people clean shit up with?

Here are some options from an older frugality thread on MMM:

https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/frugality-contest!-top-3-go!/msg1513417/#msg1513417