What I Have Learned After 2 Years

[daschtick]

I stumbled on this forum about 2 years ago while researching Roth versus Traditional investing - I think that I may have have found a link from the Mad Fientist.  Over this time, here are the main things that I have stuck with me:

Spend money on things that REALLY matter - Sell things that don't matter.  This is a biggie for me!  I had enjoyed boating for many years, but began to realize that although I still enjoyed being on the water, between our short summer season, and other family activities, I had a huge sum of cash depreciating in my garage between the boat and the truck that I used to tow it - just so I could go on the water maybe 5 times a year.  This stuff was also costing me in insurance, registration, maintenance, repairs, winterization, and storage space.  After the facepunch I received from this forum, I sold both which netted me $43k in my investment account, stopped the annual leak of $5k, plus left a really nice open garage in which all of our cars now easily fit!  I fully understood why they say that the second best day of boat ownership is the day you sell it!

Keep a positive attitude at all times.  I used to think that the people who said this were just serving Kool-Aid, but I have noticed that I am in such a better mood when always looking on the bright side, and I find that I surround myself with folks with similar attitudes.  I now find myself internally laughing at people who are all bent out of shape at something fed to them on Fox News.  Shut that crap off, and go outside and enjoy a walk with your dog!

Contentment.  Be happy with what you have, and don't measure your success against what the Jones's have on credit.  My wife and I have been fairly good with money most of our lives, to the point where we have absolutely no debt, and a significant amount of FU money.  We have stayed in our first home, and we generally keep our vehicles for many years.  The key is to take care of your things, and keep up with maintenance.  No one who sees our 10 year old TSX thinks it is that old, not to mention that is has over 200k miles on it.  That said, the plan for this car iis for it to become our daughter's first car, then buy a replacement for my wife.

Listen to advice, but think for yourself.  I am not nearly as extreme as MMM, for example, as I will never be without a car.  However, I have taken the other 70% of his advice and applied portions of it to my life where I hadn't been using it already.  For me, this applies with Dave Ramsey also.  I was never in debt, but I find a lot of his stuff very inspiring once I sift out his right wing and religion rants.  Once you cut those out, much of his message is very similar, but with 'Gol Dang' instead of the real swear like on MMM!  A prime example of thinking for yourself relates back to the Roth versus Traditional arguement, which I how I got here in the first place.  Most of the general public (including Dave  Ramsey) automatically defaults to saving into a Roth today, because 'tax rates are only going to go up'.  But my issue was that every dollar I could put into a Roth would be taxed at the 25% tax bracket, and not at the 7-8% effective rate.  However, between this forum, ERE, and Mad Fientist, I was able to determine that a traditional was indeed a better solution for ME, instead of blindly following the Roth herd.

Well, that's all I have for now.  What has stuck with you?

[Mika M]

Hi, there. I too have been an aspiring FIRE-fan of this blog for a couple of years now. After getting into it with my hair on fire to cut spending, my husband and I have both come a long way with cutting mindless/frivolous/luxury spending, both learning a lot about how little we actually care about a lot the "finer" things. At this point I think I've settled into somewhat of an auto-pilot level of living and spending.

I'm in the same boat - there are things we don't get more hardcore on like driving. While we have sensible cars we still practice very mock-worthy "clown-car" driving and continue to keep a second car (my little 2004 Hyundai Accent) because it comes in handy (but could manage without). At the same time our general stomping grounds/typical driving range has shrunken down significantly, and we feel very burdened and inconvenienced if we have to drive farther than 5 minutes away and avoid it as much as possible (which is a huge improvement from a few years ago). I started out using a drying rack for clothes as I also realize it helps preserve them longer, but as my baby grew and got more active and had more toddler insomnia parties I abandoned that and have stuck with the dryer for probably a good year now. DH and I also realized that it will be a LOOOONG time before we have the time, patience, and motivation to get any good at doing our own handiwork, so after 2 years of resisting it, we've started contracting out some long needed repairs.

On the other hand, most good-weather Saturdays you can find the three of us (DH, DD, and me) on the neighborhood nature trail or at one of the neighborhood playgrounds. We've also have ramped up clearing out clutter (unused crap) in our home's storage spaces, at last finding it easy to prioritize what we want to keep and donating or freecycling a whole lot of fun stuff that we learned holds little value for us anymore (and probably never did).

I've lost nearly all interest in keeping up with what's fashionable, and getting into Mustachianism has helped me remember who I was as a teenager - an anti-fashionista who dreamed of travel and outdoor adventures.

Interesting point about the retirement options. My liquid assets are in both (IRA/401k and regular transfers from my net take-home pay to my non-retirement investment account).

[Mikenost12]

...

Contentment.  Be happy with what you have, and don't measure your success against what the Jones's have on credit.  My wife and I have been fairly good with money most of our lives, to the point where we have absolutely no debt, and a significant amount of FU money.  We have stayed in our first home, and we generally keep our vehicles for many years.  The key is to take care of your things, and keep up with maintenance.  No one who sees our 10 year old TSX thinks it is that old, not to mention that is has over 200k miles on it.  That said, the plan for this car iis for it to become our daughter's first car, then buy a replacement for my wife.

Listen to advice, but think for yourself.  I am not nearly as extreme as MMM, for example, as I will never be without a car.  However, I have taken the other 70% of his advice and applied portions of it to my life where I hadn't been using it already.  For me, this applies with Dave Ramsey also.  I was never in debt, but I find a lot of his stuff very inspiring once I sift out his right wing and religion rants.  Once you cut those out, much of his message is very similar, but with 'Gol Dang' instead of the real swear like on MMM!  A prime example of thinking for yourself relates back to the Roth versus Traditional arguement, which I how I got here in the first place.  Most of the general public (including Dave  Ramsey) automatically defaults to saving into a Roth today, because 'tax rates are only going to go up'.  But my issue was that every dollar I could put into a Roth would be taxed at the 25% tax bracket, and not at the 7-8% effective rate.  However, between this forum, ERE, and Mad Fientist, I was able to determine that a traditional was indeed a better solution for ME, instead of blindly following the Roth herd.

Well, that's all I have for now.  What has stuck with you?

This resonated with me enough I had to find my password and log in! This website definitely helped me with Contentment. My car is a 11 year old Honda and now I resisted calls to just buy a new one. The plan now is to keep 2 more years and by something used when it hits around 200k miles. Also I started very basic repairs such as replacing brake light, getting a new door remote and setting it, replacing cabin air filter. MMM inspired me, although I don't think i'll ever be a plumber/welder/electrician, my version is at least doing basic things. This site makes me want to learn how to do things, rather than just get them done, looking at things breaking as an opportunity. There was something else that broke recently that I tried taking apart and trying to fix rather than just throw out.
 
Listening to advice but Thinking for yourself- Additionally like you Daschtick, I started with Dave Ramsey for personal finance info. I ate up his books and show, despite the odious political/religious messages. Despite not starting out in debt, I hadn't done much savings either, or given enough thought to the big picture. I got serious about budgeting and inspired by the personal finance in his books and show. He does help a lot of peoples lives, people in desperate debt, with out of control spending or in bad interpersonal situations. I have mixed feelings as I got a lot from him and still recommend him to people.
    However I was very turned off by Dave charging for his website access, referring people to ELP's who have to pay him to be an ELP, who steer people to high front loaded mutual funds rather than Vanguard or something. Zander, Churchill Mortgage and everything else I'm not sure if are the best or just advertise or otherwise pay him, sounds like a conflict of interest. Buy the classes, the envelopes, the books, endorsed insurance, endorsed stocks, endorsed mortgage, his software to compete with YNAB (again is this a conflict of interest or the best product?). I'm not sure employing 500 people convinces me he's a benevolent financial Christian guru, so much as an empire builder, but I digress.
rant/

  The MMM site made me seriously consider electrical efficiency, hypermilling a bit to save gas, thinking about biking to work or living closer to work. Got even more serious about tracking every expense, thinking if I really need things, and thinking of hard work or getting used to minor discomfort in the name of saving, at times as 'badass'. Some of the articles like one talking about Hedonic Adaptation and making the power of habits work for me all have been eye opening. I even recently got a library card, stopped buying books on amazon (as much at least) which I had thought was good. Overall this site opened my eyes to how much you could really save if you get radically frugal, change your mindset and examine expenses. I even find myself asking friends if we want to go the fancy pants expensive 'regular' movie theater or just catch one of the flicks at the local dollar theater.

[Blatant]

Excellent post. Like you, I view this as an idea space. Am I going to incorporate all aspects of mustachianism? No. But there are plenty of smart people with great ideas that I can work into my lifestyle.

[Michread]

This forum made me not feel guilty about NOT working for money.

I learned about FireCalc here.

I don't need to work for money (still working a few times/mo); we have enough to both fully retire by age 55 (2 yrs). 

After reading Root of Good website (found here at MMM), we stopped adding funds to our taxable Vanguard acct. and put that same amount (plus a HUGE tax savings) in 403b acct. 

It made me appreciate all the wise decisions we've made these 25 yrs of marriage to get to this financial/happiness position as a family. 

It will help our young adult sons to think more about spending, savings, investing and retiring beyond my past knowledge (mainly from books - Your Money or Your Life, Millionaire Next Door, Tightwad Gazette, etc.)  with the help of all these online mentors (MMM, Root of Good, RetirebyForty, etc.)

[AnEDO]

I would add to your list the concept of constant optimization.  Its fun to find better more efficient ways of doing things to save time/energy/money.  Life is fluid and things change.  Constant optimization allows us to adapt to whatever life throws at us and thrive.  Not just the bad things either.  Got a big bonus?  Typical person might think about what to buy.  Most of us would instead think about how to optimize the bonus for the best long term positive effect on our lives. 

[thd7t]

I would add to your list the concept of constant optimization.  Its fun to find better more efficient ways of doing things to save time/energy/money.  Life is fluid and things change.  Constant optimization allows us to adapt to whatever life throws at us and thrive.  Not just the bad things either.  Got a big bonus?  Typical person might think about what to buy.  Most of us would instead think about how to optimize the bonus for the best long term positive effect on our lives.

I agree with you.  Constant optimization is one that I see a lot of people on this board having trouble with, and I understand why.  When you start out, you're just glad to be making progress (in my case, way faster than previously).  Then, you get a system that works and just want to stick with it.  When people recommend changing things, you get defensive.  It's hard not to.  I look back at some of my earliest moves toward FI and want to kick myself, because I know more now, but the truth is that those early mistakes taught me more than I knew before and still helped me get further along.

[Lady Fordragon]

I would add to your list the concept of constant optimization.  Its fun to find better more efficient ways of doing things to save time/energy/money.  Life is fluid and things change.  Constant optimization allows us to adapt to whatever life throws at us and thrive.  Not just the bad things either.  Got a big bonus?  Typical person might think about what to buy.  Most of us would instead think about how to optimize the bonus for the best long term positive effect on our lives.

I agree with you.  Constant optimization is one that I see a lot of people on this board having trouble with, and I understand why.  When you start out, you're just glad to be making progress (in my case, way faster than previously).  Then, you get a system that works and just want to stick with it.  When people recommend changing things, you get defensive.  It's hard not to.  I look back at some of my earliest moves toward FI and want to kick myself, because I know more now, but the truth is that those early mistakes taught me more than I knew before and still helped me get further along.

Agreed!  My husband first told me about MMM back in 2012, but it wasn't until earlier this year that I finally read through all of his posts and started optimizing our lifestyle.  We were already a one car household since my hubby had sold his car back in 2012, but we have since found other ways to cut back our expenses and continue to do so.

[thd7t]

Another major thing I've learned (and I suspect that everyone learns) is that When you try, you make progress.  This seems obvious, but I arrived at MMM, because I thought that my cell phone bill was absurd.  It was usually higher than my electricity, gas (home) and water bills combined.  That seemed ludicrous and I thought that there had to be a better way.  I didn't realize that if I just looked at more of my life that way, I'd find a better way.  For the most part, even when I've done things sub-optimally (paid off 2.75% car loan on MMM day 1), I was doing better than I had been (money was in <1% savings account).  Even before the real "constant optimization" instinct got going, I was making progress way faster than before.

[boarder42]

I'm about 2 years in too i believe.  I found this place around 4/2013... i was always a saver...  Never could find a place that would tell me how much i saved and when i could retire (i was planning to retire early at 55).  Found this place through Shockingly Simple Math.  I wish i had found it 2 years earlier.  in Jan 2011 i did a calculation and came to the conclusion i was saving TOO much and would have piles by my goal of 55.  So like you i bought a boat rather than max my 401k.  I live on a lake and use it every chance i get.  This year i blew up the engine and many other issues had me dump a butt load into it.  I plan to give it one more summer before i decide what i will do with it.  I'm a wakeboarder approaching 30 and my right knee is about shot.  its probably best i sell it and move on but only time will tell, By this time next year i may be boatless.

Since finding this i have found we were wasting alot of money in areas it wasnt necessary.  And have cut our spending just a little but that little means we can retire in 7-8 years and live on 60k a year ... no bad considering that will be 12-13 years (max 15 years of work) ...

[pachnik]

I'm about 2 1/2 years in and I've stayed fairly close due to participating in the forum.  I couldn't just read the blog articles once and then change my life permanently from that point.  I need support in stuff I am working on and I am so grateful that this forum exists because it reminds me of my financial goals.  I read more than I write though for sure.

The biggest thing I learned was to stop frittering my money away.  At the beginning, I looked at all my expenses and cut them down if possible.  Some things came back into the mix but definitely not all of them. 

[daschtick]

Excellent post. Like you, I view this as an idea space. Am I going to incorporate all aspects of mustachianism? No. But there are plenty of smart people with great ideas that I can work into my lifestyle.

I think this is why I like his site so much - It is filled with many brilliant and like minded people in which you can discuss your financial situation in order to further optimize it, without the associated stigma of talking finances with close friends or relatives, who may end up judging you poorly for your choices (plus,they usually don't know very much, and are often living on credit).  It's really sort of funny if you think about it - many will come on here and spill their entire finances that they wouldn't dare speak to anyone they actually knew, out of fear of repercussion!  The worst thing here is that you might receive a MMM face punch(tm), but this is only meant to wake you up!

Between the MMM blog, Mad Fientist, JLCollinsNH, and this forum, I have learned far more about personal finance in the last 2 years, than I have in all of my years previous.  The steps that I have taken have resulted in a far greater feeling of financial security, which in turn has dropped my stress level dramatically.  This reduction in stress has even showed up during my annual physical exam, in which all of my numbers have improved considerably, without any other lifestyle changes.  I also now have a solid plan for much earlier retirement then I had previously thought possible, and actual goals to track.  The benefits of this knowledge cannot be underestimated!

[snowball]

MMM inspired me to get rid of my car entirely six months ago, despite the limited public transit here :) - after I moved closer to work.  I never really liked having a car;  I never had one as a student, and my life was simpler...cars are both expensive and aggravating, IMO.  So I'm happier.  It's kind of a drastic change though - I might have been tempted to do it without MMM, but I don't think I would have gone through with it.

I've tried to downplay the whole thing and not talk about it much, because I don't think it should be a big deal, but I got some awfully disbelieving / uncomprehending / polite-but-I-think-this-is-a-bad-idea reactions.  Good thing I'm stubborn.  :)  I guess it's a very not-normal thing to do, here.  (Small town.  Everybody drives.  When I lived in cities, not having a car was more common.)  A couple of people said they'd do it themselves if they could, though - I wasn't expecting that.  Maybe there is a bit less attachment to cars in my circle of acquaintance than I thought.  Those people have no intention of getting rid of theirs, but at least they understand why you would even want to.

[revisednut]

Contentment was probably the largest single item for me, after browsing these forums daily for a couple years.  Long gone are the days where I would go on Amazon, or to Home Depot/Lowes, and walk the isles to "shop", and buy frivolous items.  I now find it difficult to even spend gift cars received for holidays/special occasions. I usually end up selling them for close to full value on the secondary market.  It's so liberating to have shed the "need" to purchase items that just clutter the house.   

[G-dog]

Excellent post. Like you, I view this as an idea space. Am I going to incorporate all aspects of mustachianism? No. But there are plenty of smart people with great ideas that I can work into my lifestyle.

I think this is why I like his site so much - It is filled with many brilliant and like minded people in which you can discuss your financial situation in order to further optimize it, without the associated stigma of talking finances with close friends or relatives, who may end up judging you poorly for your choices (plus,they usually don't know very much, and are often living on credit).  It's really sort of funny if you think about it - many will come on here and spill their entire finances that they wouldn't dare speak to anyone they actually knew, out of fear of repercussion!  The worst thing here is that you might receive a MMM face punch(tm), but this is only meant to wake you up!

Between the MMM blog, Mad Fientist, JLCollinsNH, and this forum, I have learned far more about personal finance in the last 2 years, than I have in all of my years previous.  The steps that I have taken have resulted in a far greater feeling of financial security, which in turn has dropped my stress level dramatically.  This reduction in stress has even showed up during my annual physical exam, in which all of my numbers have improved considerably, without any other lifestyle changes.  I also now have a solid plan for much earlier retirement then I had previously thought possible, and actual goals to track.  The benefits of this knowledge cannot be underestimated!

I appreciate the forum as a learning resource, support community, and a reality face punch community.
I've been here about 1.5 years, what has stuck with me is:
Track your expenses - need this to cut / optimize expenses and to estimate your FIRE target number. I also found Firecalc, etc. here. Before finding this the only retirement target info I would find was that you work until 65+ and need to replace 80% of your income. This never made sense to me, but I never figured out the fallacies on my own, or found the primary studies to figure it out.
Start now and move forward - I was 53 yo when I found this. Do I wish I had found it earlier? Hell yes! But we can't go back in time, so where ever your stating point is you can start making changes NOW to improve your position. I FIREd 7/2/2015 at 55 yo - I may not really be entitled to the 'RE' part, but without MMM and this forum, JL Collins, MadFientist, and Firecalc I would have struggled along to 65 yo or so.
YES you can - you may thinking you can't save more, spend less, do without 1, 2, or 3 cars, DIY your car, bike, garden, or home repairs, eliminate debt, retire early, etc. - BUT you can! We don't all decide to do ALL of these, but we are capable of doing them, which is empowering to know. It is great to know we have so many choices under our control.

This forum has been priceless and it has been fun to learn from others, and to learn to not over react to some of the tangents and other derailing events. The moderators do a great job keeping the place running with minimal disruption.

[Eric222]

What I've learned after 2 months (almost!)

A lot of things here start working pretty quickly.  I'd been making progress on my own and slowly changing my lifestyle (partly by choice, partly because my post-divorce debt), but there are just so many ideas around here. 

Everyone here is incredibly kind, helpful, and doesn't think I'm crazy - either for my past spendthrift ways or for the ways my life is changing now.  And necessary face punches are delivered, but without malice.