What does mustachianism mean to you?

[forummm]

A number of posts lately have indicated to me that people are thinking about mustachianism differently than each other. Some people look at it as being frugal, others see it as a way to get out of their terrible job, and others see it more as a way of life. It's made me wonder if maybe I'm missing something important that others are seeing.

For me, it means security and freedom. Family money problems and personal health problems led me to see that being good with money was really important. I was worried that my health problems would return and that I would be disabled and destitute. Every year that my savings have grown, these worries have been lifted. And as I've grown more and more disillusioned with the career options I am aware of, I can see that traditional employment is less and less likely to provide the kind of fulfillment in life that I desire. By achieving FI I can relax and know that I will be financially OK. And RE will let me spend my time and efforts doing what I want to do, even if it won't pay me.

What does mustachianism/ERE/FIRE mean to you?

[Retired To Win]

...
What does mustachianism/ERE/FIRE mean to you?

In one word: freedom.  In a few more words: freedom to spend my time as I choose without having to answer to a boss, a job or pretty much anything else.

[TheBuddha]

Security and freedom here too.

I don't particularly care about saving the earth with my anti-consumerist lifestyle, or hugging a tree or riding a bike, I just want a big-ass pile of money. And LBYM is the fastest, most reliable way to do that.

[cerebus]

To me, security and freedom are not terribly important. I do not crave either of those things very much, as I define it. MMM for me is about simplicity and happiness, and the ability to one day spend all of my time doing what I want to do, which is to live for the things that I love such as my family, my books and true friends; instead of living to enrich someone else and to impress people who aren't worth impressing and amassing a pointless storehouse of wealth. It's about self-reliance rather than material dependence.

I love the idea that just by living in the simplest way possible, I can build up sufficient means to quit working for someone else altogether while I'm still relatively young, and I can be secure from the constant stress to earn enough to survive and to one day scrape through to a meagre retirement in decrepitude, which was all I knew before discovering mustachianism.

I know people who have retired quite early in my family, after amassing a sizeable fortune, and it resulted in destroying their health and nearly their marriage, and now they have a high consumption retirement that seems so stressful to me that I want to get a heart attack from thinking about it. My own father is around 60, and earns around a $300/hour salary (I'd guess), and still feels like he has to work 2 jobs so that he can have enough to retire on. It's completely insane. He could have retired years ago if he would have allowed himself to live below his ludicrous means.

[Fastfwd]

To me it simply means being aware of the time/money trade between now and later. After that if you still want to work 50 hours/week until you are 70 it's fine but you know what you giving up in that trade.
The post about the simple math behind early retirement is the essence of what I connect to in MMM.

[2Birds1Stone]

Freedom and security!

Said freedom and security actually lets me enjoy my job, knowing I can walk out and work just about anywhere and still FIRE in 10-12 years.

[forummm]

Any other viewpoints out there? No one thinks it's about getting really rich? Or about some kind of personal growth through disciplined living? Or about some other improvement in life?

[forummm]

To me, security and freedom are not terribly important. I do not crave either of those things very much, as I define it. MMM for me is about simplicity and happiness, and the ability to one day spend all of my time doing what I want to do, which is to live for the things that I love such as my family, my books and true friends; instead of living to enrich someone else and to impress people who aren't worth impressing and amassing a pointless storehouse of wealth. It's about self-reliance rather than material dependence.

I love the idea that just by living in the simplest way possible, I can build up sufficient means to quit working for someone else altogether while I'm still relatively young, and I can be secure from the constant stress to earn enough to survive and to one day scrape through to a meagre retirement in decrepitude, which was all I knew before discovering mustachianism.

I know people who have retired quite early in my family, after amassing a sizeable fortune, and it resulted in destroying their health and nearly their marriage, and now they have a high consumption retirement that seems so stressful to me that I want to get a heart attack from thinking about it. My own father is around 60, and earns around a $300/hour salary (I'd guess), and still feels like he has to work 2 jobs so that he can have enough to retire on. It's completely insane. He could have retired years ago if he would have allowed himself to live below his ludicrous means.

It's interesting that you still do mention security and freedom as desirable outcomes even though they aren't that important to you.

Some of my relatives have super-high incomes, and could have retired long ago, but they can't stop blowing crazy amounts of money of stuff they don't need. It's sad.

[2ndTimer]

Mustachianism is about minimizing the amount of money I spend on things that don't bring us joy so I will have more to spend on the things that do bring us joy.  Incidentally, there is no joy like going into the dentist's office with an abscessed tooth and being able to say "Go ahead and do a root canal right now if that's what will fix it." without having to wonder how I will pay for it.

[Norrie]

Any other viewpoints out there? No one thinks it's about getting really rich? Or about some kind of personal growth through disciplined living? Or about some other improvement in life?

Well, I may fantasize from time to time of being really rich, but the realities of our household careers make that unlikely.  :)

MMM has been great for challenging the way that I think about the types of things I spend money on, why I prioritize them, and which things that I can easily cut without even noticing the difference. There are a lot of parts that I find fascinating (bike riding, for example), but just don't fit into my life right now, maybe because I don't care to prioritize them. But I love reading about folks who are doing things differently than me, because it has really opened up my eyes to see life/money in a whole different way.

It's also given me a bit of a foothold in the storm to come back to when I can feel myself sliding back into unwise habits. I've taken several breaks (mostly out of guilt that I'm not doing better), but I've found that I'm a lot happier and feel more connected to our finances if I'm keeping an eye on the site on a regular basis.

[surfhb]

To me, security and freedom are not terribly important. I do not crave either of those things very much, as I define it. MMM for me is about simplicity and happiness, and the ability to one day spend all of my time doing what I want to do, which is to live for the things that I love such as my family, my books and true friends; instead of living to enrich someone else and to impress people who aren't worth impressing and amassing a pointless storehouse of wealth. It's about self-reliance rather than material dependence.

I love the idea that just by living in the simplest way possible, I can build up sufficient means to quit working for someone else altogether while I'm still relatively young, and I can be secure from the constant stress to earn enough to survive and to one day scrape through to a meagre retirement in decrepitude, which was all I knew before discovering mustachianism.

I know people who have retired quite early in my family, after amassing a sizeable fortune, and it resulted in destroying their health and nearly their marriage, and now they have a high consumption retirement that seems so stressful to me that I want to get a heart attack from thinking about it. My own father is around 60, and earns around a $300/hour salary (I'd guess), and still feels like he has to work 2 jobs so that he can have enough to retire on. It's completely insane. He could have retired years ago if he would have allowed himself to live below his ludicrous means.

It's interesting that you still do mention security and freedom as desirable outcomes even though they aren't that important to you.

Some of my relatives have super-high incomes, and could have retired long ago, but they can't stop blowing crazy amounts of money of stuff they don't need. It's sad.

Why?   If they can afford it, I say do whatever they want.     Its not your life :)

For me its about someday having the freedom not to work for someone else for survival while still living the life that makes me happy during the course of the adventure.     

[sisto]

It means living a great life without spending a ton of money to do it. To be able to have FU money and not feel stuck working for the man until I have no life left in me. It means learning new ways to find happiness that don't necessarily involve money. It means learning to love the shit out of my job because I'm paid well and making my way to FIRE. It means putting my focus on amassing money instead of things. Lastly it means I have a place to trade ideas and stories with like minded people. I wish I would have found this place years ago because if I had I'd be FIREd by now. I'm glad to have found it now and gotten my spending under control and dropped my need for stuff. I've always been frugal and done tons of DIY and saved money, but I also spent way more than I needed to and did not save as much as I could. Now that I'm here I'm on my way. I've also shaved 2 - 3 years off of my FIRE date in about 2 months!

[Rural]

For me, frugality (in the more general sense as I didn't change any habits there when this site started up) is about security. As I've achieved some of that (though I'll never really trust it because of my background), I've gotten the room to start thinking about freedom, and that's where the investing component comes in.

[forummm]

Some of my relatives have super-high incomes, and could have retired long ago, but they can't stop blowing crazy amounts of money of stuff they don't need. It's sad.

Why?   If they can afford it, I say do whatever they want.     Its not your life :)

They can, and do, do whatever they want. In this case it's sad because they are both old and in very poor health. One can hardly walk from a variety of ailments, the other has cancer. And yet they are so disconnected between their unnecessary spending habits, their inability to save money, and their really strong desire to retire now (due to it being so hard to do anything).

[Retired To Win]

To me,security and freedom are not terribly important. I do not crave either of those things very much, as I define it. MMM for me is about simplicity and happiness, and the ability to one day spend all of my time doing what I want to do, which is to live for the things that I love such as my family, my books and true friends; instead of living to enrich someone else and to impress people who aren't worth impressing and amassing a pointless storehouse of wealth. It's about self-reliance rather than material dependence.

I love the idea that just by living in the simplest way possible, I can build up sufficient means to quit working for someone else altogether while I'm still relatively young, and I can be secure from the constant stress to earn enough to survive and to one day scrape through to a meagre retirement in decrepitude, which was all I knew before discovering mustachianism...

Security => "self-reliance"... "secure from the constant stress to earn enough to survive"

Freedom => "spend all of my time doing what I want to do"

Sounds to me like security and freedom ARE important to you (as well they should be).

[cerebus]

To me,security and freedom are not terribly important. I do not crave either of those things very much, as I define it. MMM for me is about simplicity and happiness, and the ability to one day spend all of my time doing what I want to do, which is to live for the things that I love such as my family, my books and true friends; instead of living to enrich someone else and to impress people who aren't worth impressing and amassing a pointless storehouse of wealth. It's about self-reliance rather than material dependence.

I love the idea that just by living in the simplest way possible, I can build up sufficient means to quit working for someone else altogether while I'm still relatively young, and I can be secure from the constant stress to earn enough to survive and to one day scrape through to a meagre retirement in decrepitude, which was all I knew before discovering mustachianism...

Security => "self-reliance"... "secure from the constant stress to earn enough to survive"

Freedom => "spend all of my time doing what I want to do"

Sounds to me like security and freedom ARE important to you (as well they should be).

Yeah, like, sure they do fit into the equation. They're just not the central things that I gravitate to. Well more so freedom, but security doesn't mean a lot to me. Even if I had to start my life over again with nothing, as I've done in the past, I would be okay. I'm just that kind of person. I don't crave greater security.

I just want to live as though everything cost nothing and I needed nothing more than what I already had to be happy. I hate the worry that stupid money brings into my life as I have to provide for myself and others who are truly helpless without me. And I want to pursue the activities that make me happiest, whatever they are, instead of crashing exhausted at the end of a day to grab an hour or so of tv then rinse repeat. So, mmm to me means simplicity and happiness- there are other things, but that's the most high level definition for me.


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[iamlittlehedgehog]

For me it isn't so much about early retirement, but financial independence and security and not being a slave to the credit card or car payments.
I make very little money and probably will always being the low income bracket but mustachianism has shown me that my life never has to be limited by this.
There will never be extravagant trips or a life of delicacies but I no longer need to feel ashamed of my mustachian tendencies and I will not apologize for line drying my clothes, timing showers or my affection for beans and rice.

[Cookie78]

Freedom.
Also to a lesser extent security.
And also simplicity and self-sustainability.

[Chris22]

I'm not particularly "mustachian" (to the point where I think the word is corny and stupid).  I am interested in FI, not so much RE, but try to do that more on the income side than the spending side.  I agree that I don't want to waste money on things that are unimportant to me, but part of that is that I try and buy quality things once, rather than squeeze all the money out of something altogether.  I also very rarely desire to buy used things, unless that's the only way I can get it (I bought my sports car used solely because it had some traits I desired that were not available in the then-current version when I was ready to buy.  The next sports car I have my sights set on is no longer available, so it would also have to be used).  I like to simplify "stuff" because I find relaxation and beauty in simplicity, but on the flip side I hate to make things complicated (the hoops people describe jumping through on here sometimes to save what is, to me, a token amount of money would literally drive me insane.)

I think the best example for me is this: we've been staying with my inlaws for a short period of time while renovating our house.  Part of this arrangement is that we buy the groceries for the family.  Every week, my wife makes a list, and every week I go to the store and buy what's on that list.  And then as I unload it, my mother in law stands there and asks what every item coming out of the bag costs.  I reply honestly that I have no idea.  She asks then how I knew whether or not I should buy it?!?  And I reply "it was on the list, I assume we needed it."  She and her husband have several vacation homes, millions of dollars, etc.  Her thought is that in order to comfortably spend money the way she does, she has to watch pennies.  I personally would rather have one modest home, and enough money in the bank that I can spend freely on my hobbies and not have to decide whether or not to buy a steak based on whether or not it's on sale. 

[AJ]

Mustachianism gives me the ability to live a 100% self-directed life.

+1, that's a good way to phrase it.

[Cheddar Stacker]

I've gone through a long progression during this journey. At first it was mostly financial fitness. It turned into physical fitness/health. After a year or so, it evolved into mental health. Then it evolved into a deeper yearning for intense knowledge of financial, psychological, and environmental things. In no particular order, this is what mustachianism means to me: 

Happiness/Joy
Consciousness
Uncertainty
Simplicity
Self-Reliance
Discipline
Inquisition
Lacking expectation
Immune to judgment
Master of my Fate

I might not be using the words in their perfect definition, and they might not mean the same to all of you as they do to me, but that sums it up for me. And while some likely hate the term, I think badassity sums most of my definition quite nicely. Learn to be a bad ass as Pete defines it, and as your definition of the term evolves. Live with a purpose, and take control.

[CommonCents]

Mindful living.  In other words:

Mustachianism is about minimizing the amount of money I spend on things that don't bring us joy so I will have more to spend on the things that do bring us joy. 

This results in security and freedom, as noted by others, but to me, that's an end result (not the path, and the path is the key part of MMM to me).

[forummm]

There are a lot of beautiful thoughts on here. Thanks for sharing, everyone!

[EngineerMum]

To me it means efficiency - that may be the engineer in me talking. Basically, maximising the lifetime happiness that can be extracted from every dollar. That covers all the different ways that happiness is achieved at the expense of something else - for some, riding a bike is enjoyable, the excercise is a benefit and avoiding car costs is a bonus, for another, their car commute is a relaxing time to listen to audio books and riding to work would be unacceptably tough physically, but each is aware of the options and has made an informed decision. For some, cooking from scratch has health and well being benefits, saves money and they don't mind the time and effort, for another who hates cooking they find other ways to spend less or simply get so much enjoyment from eating out that it is worth it as a considered decision. It means everyone doing their own cost - benefit analysis, to ultimately apply to their whole life with the common end result that for most on these boards the benefit of retiring early outweighs the benefit of extra spending now.
For why I want to achieve moustachianism, like many, security and freedom, in that order. My job is well paid but insecure and cyclical, and I know I don't want to do it for 30 more years until normal retirement age. I can't think of any other job I could do that I would enjoy more that would pay the same (and the jobs that pay this much that I could do with my personality and abilities would require another 4 year degree), so my only option is to spend less than this income to either retire on savings or semi retire to a lower paying job.

[forummm]

To me it means efficiency - that may be the engineer in me talking. Basically, maximising the lifetime happiness that can be extracted from every dollar. That covers all the different ways that happiness is achieved at the expense of something else - for some, riding a bike is enjoyable, the excercise is a benefit and avoiding car costs is a bonus, for another, their car commute is a relaxing time to listen to audio books and riding to work would be unacceptably tough physically, but each is aware of the options and has made an informed decision. For some, cooking from scratch has health and well being benefits, saves money and they don't mind the time and effort, for another who hates cooking they find other ways to spend less or simply get so much enjoyment from eating out that it is worth it as a considered decision. It means everyone doing their own cost - benefit analysis, to ultimately apply to their whole life with the common end result that for most on these boards the benefit of retiring early outweighs the benefit of extra spending now.
For why I want to achieve moustachianism, like many, security and freedom, in that order. My job is well paid but insecure and cyclical, and I know I don't want to do it for 30 more years until normal retirement age. I can't think of any other job I could do that I would enjoy more that would pay the same (and the jobs that pay this much that I could do with my personality and abilities would require another 4 year degree), so my only option is to spend less than this income to either retire on savings or semi retire to a lower paying job.

The engineer in me also thinks this way :)

[sisto]

+1^

[Killerbrandt]

...
What does mustachianism/ERE/FIRE mean to you?

In one word: freedom.  In a few more words: freedom to spend my time as I choose without having to answer to a boss, a job or pretty much anything else.

+1 SAME!!!

[Jon_Snow]

+1 to FREEDOM.

Everyday that I wake up, I can literally do WHATEVER I WANT. And I do. :)

[YK-Phil]

For me, mustachianism started as the desire to live my life with a smaller environmental footprint and staying away from rampant consumerism. The financial freedom I gained from frugal living and the possibility of retiring earlier than most are nice and practical side effects.

[Bob W]

For me it is finding and sharing ideas --

Greatest ideas in last year I have found here --

1.  Republic wireless  ($1,200 annual savings)
2. Roku  ($500 annual with cable cut)
3.  Mileage game (richmondsavers.com)  (eventual 10K per year in travel)
4.  Dual Momentum investing (milesdividendmd.com) (reducing my target investment nut by 1/2)
5.  Churning checking accounts (doctorofcreditc.om)  (eventual 4K per year in free money)

Add all that shit up and we are talking about real serious money and huge lifestyle impacts.  I can literally be FI with 14K in income and I can generate that using index funds and DM on 140K.  Prior to finding these avenues I was in a pretty hopeless "I'll never retire and life sucks" mode.   

So hope is a big part of it. 

It also means motivation to me.  Motivated to do things like cut the cable,  eat out less,  DYI,  save more,  plan for a downsized affordable future. 

[forummm]

As an aside, Bob, I think it's kind of risky to assume DM will get you double returns consistently. I don't even think it's done that in the past.

[Retired To Win]

... I just want to live as though everything cost nothing and I needed nothing more than what I already had to be happy... And I want to pursue the activities that make me happiest, whatever they are, instead of crashing exhausted at the end of a day to grab an hour or so of tv then rinse repeat....

Here, here!  You've put into words the sense that I have on a daily basis of how my life plays itself out.  And that first underscored phrase in your quote above also explains to me why my Discretionary Fund keeps growing and why I literally have to make it a project to spend some of my surplus passive income on something.

[MonkeyJenga]

Freedom, flexibility, simplicity, self-reliance, and perpetual learning.

[Cougar]

...
What does mustachianism/ERE/FIRE mean to you?

In one word: freedom. 

I would second this.

For instance, i just sold the second car and paid off the current one; so the only thing that really owns me right now is my mortgage.

Most people think they go to work daily to pay the bills, car and house payments and pay to raise the kids; but really unless you have to live in a place like nyc or california; you can do those very cheaply and live your life as you want. why most people never consider it this way and just keep themselves tied fown to keeping up with everyone else; bewilders me.

[ChrisLansing]

For me it means a set of values as well as specific actions that will let me have a better retirement than i would have had otherwise.   

I came to MMM relatively late in life (late 50s) so I can't really RE, I just can't save and invest enough to do that, having started so late.    (Wish MMM was around when I was in my 20s)   But I can save and invest, and I'll have 100K to 150K more when I retire just because of things I've done since discovering MMM about a year ago.    That may not sound like much to many who post here, but for me it's huge.   

I'm still whittling away at expenses, as I see now we can live on far less than we were spending.   

In short Mustachianism is making sure you have more than you need so you can enjoy the comfort of not having to worry about money.