What does job mean for FI people

[vagavince]

I'm FI at under 3% SWR. However, current economic situation has me worried. I'm renting now, didnt expect rental market to change so dramatically and buying is out of reach with interest rate hike. I'm also worry about stock market continue to tumble.

I think there is a difference between being FI on paper and actually feeling FI psychologically. All the inflation news is making me not feeling FI and want to play it safe and take a more stable job and make more money until it quiet down.

My current job is pretty relaxing, but its project based and its remote. It doesn't feel super stable (part of it might be the psychology of being remote). But the freedom is amazing. I know the project pretty well so is able to just coordinate and answer questions.

I'm thinking about switching to a local job that will be a bit more stress but also higher pay. Higher pay is not the only reason but it seems attractive. Working with a local team feel more secure/stable. Project is cool but in January I might have forego the excitement

To help me make the decision I been thinking a lot about what I want out of a job. Here is what I think my priorities are. Wonder if there are any comments. Would love to find out what job mean for other FI people.

• Freedom/flexibility - easy, low stress job that give me a lot of time and freedom
• Social - meeting people, chatting
• Accomplishment/meaning - should I really try to get this at work or get them through hobby?
• Security - should I really try to get this at work since I'm FI or work on psychology.
• Money - how important is it given FI

[Greystache]

I have been FIRED for 7 years now. While I will agree that there are some positive aspects of a job (security, social interaction, intellectual engagement, etc.) you have to weigh that against the lack of freedom and control over your own time. I don't think I could ever be happy working full time again after experiencing that freedom.
I don't know if I could feel reeling secure in retirement if I didn't own my home and cars. I understand all of the arguments in favor of renting vs. owning, but on an emotional level, I need the security of owning. I have the skills and experience to maintain my home and cars, so I feel much more in control of my situation than if I was renting and subject to the whims of the market.

[Dicey]

I have been FIRED for 7 years now. While I will agree that there are some positive aspects of a job (security, social interaction, intellectual engagement, etc.) you have to weigh that against the lack of freedom and control over your own time. I don't think I could ever be happy working full time again after experiencing that freedom.
I don't know if I could feel reeling secure in retirement if I didn't own my home and cars. I understand all of the arguments in favor of renting vs. owning, but on an emotional level, I need the security of owning. I have the skills and experience to maintain my home and cars, so I feel much more in control of my situation than if I was renting and subject to the whims of the market.

Same, except it's been ten years for me. We own rentals and the recent comps are insane and projected to go higher in the near future. One property just jumped from $1900 to $2750 and rented with ease. I would not like to be on the receiving end of that kind of pressure. I found it very easy to replace the positive aspects of a job via meaningful, flexible volunteer work.

[Sibley]

Are you FI? Really? If you're worried about housing costs, maybe that means you're not quite there.

[ixtap]

Not sure what your definition of FI is if you are considering a more stressful job.

[mistymoney]

you are either being too cautious, or you haven't sufficiently calculated your lifetime housing plans. If you were planning an upgrade, such as eventual home ownership, then that need to be included.

Renting for the long haul would require a different computation, but I don't think it is viable to never assume large rental increases in that. Are there any never-buying on the board that have navigated that?

But if you can currently cover your desired lifestyle at under 3%, I think continuing working is enough of safeguard, and no need to seek out more money/stress.

I guess the question is: are you at your desired lifestyle?

[RyanAtTanagra]

If money is last on your list why are you considering taking a more stressful and less flexible job for more money?  If you're really at 3% withdrawal rate, any income that can cover your expenses is enough to weather an economic storm.

[wageslave23]

1. Keep doing your current job until one comes along that you might like more.
2. Figure out what your realistic FIRE expenses will be including housing (sounds like much more than your current expenses).
3. Quit your job once you hit 3% of your true FIRE expenses or whatever percentage you are comfortable with.
4. Stop worrying, even if you lost your job would be fine.

[Villanelle]

I agree with the notion that it doesn't seem like you are Financially Independent.  Sure, you have money.  More money than you objectively need by most standards.  But you aren't *independent* of your job because you still rely on it.  Not only would you not feel okay without a job, you are actually considering taking a *more* stressful job.  So I don't see how you are independent. It sounds like at best you have F* You money.  You have enough to walk away from a bad situation, but not enough to be okay not having an income tomorrow. 

Spouse and are are probably FIRE, in the sense that if jobs dried up tomorrow, we'd be okay.  But he is still working full time and I'm semi-actively scaling up my very tiny freelance situation.  His is because he still find his work rewarding and fulfilling.  He feels like he does good things, and it is also an interesting challenge.  For me, it's been a while since I worked and it is satisfying to have My Thing.  I enjoy writing and while the subject matter and voice aren't always what I love, it still scratches a creative itch.  Writing is my hobby and now I'm getting paid for it. 

To be fair, the extra money we both get is certainly nice.  And I like that my freelance gig is semi-scalable, while still being amazingly flexible (set my own hours, work from anywhere, can work ahead a couple months, etc.).  It is nice to have that so that if something unexpected comes up, we can have a small amount of income coming in. 

So I don't think you have to 100% not be interested in money in order to be FI.  But while it is low on your list, it seems like money is your primary motivator.  You are entirely uncomfortable not having additional income, and you are willing to take on more work stress, rather than scaling back.  So I'm not sure you are being honest with yourself about how important the money is, or how "independent" you are. 

[vagavince]

Numerically my living expenses is at 3%. Psychologically thats a different matter, high inflation is also added to the uncertainty. I didn’t expect rent to increase so much etc

Money is one motivator for job, maybe primary, but I think the underlying need might be more about stability and security. Part of it is money, part of it is being with a group

Sense of accomplishment is another. But not sure if I should look for work to provide that

[reeshau]

No job will give you the freedom that having no job will...

I first FIRE'd in Jan 2020.  We also relocated back to the US that year.  As we winnowed down our stuff, I kept a lot of work-related materials, "just in case."  I felt that I would see how our situation developed, whether our budget was reasonable, and of course how the pandemic would affect things.

One year later, I came across all those materials, and gleefully and without hesitation chucked it all.  I had no motivation to return to the grindstone.  As @Dicey said, I get a lot of social "doing something" pleasure from volunteering.

OP, you do need to really take a gut check about your housing situation.  Maybe once you have thought on that, you should take a year as a trial run, and take stock after that.

[Metalcat]

Numerically my living expenses is at 3%. Psychologically thats a different matter, high inflation is also added to the uncertainty. I didn’t expect rent to increase so much etc

Money is one motivator for job, maybe primary, but I think the underlying need might be more about stability and security. Part of it is money, part of it is being with a group

Sense of accomplishment is another. But not sure if I should look for work to provide that

But you don't need to take on a more stressful job to have this.

What does your ideal life look like? Does working this new job look *more* like your ideal life or *less*??

Literally no one but you can make the choices needed to live your best life, so take the responsibility seriously.

[BlueMR2]

IMy current job is pretty relaxing, but its project based and its remote. It doesn't feel super stable (part of it might be the psychology of being remote). But the freedom is amazing. I know the project pretty well so is able to just coordinate and answer questions.

I'm thinking about switching to a local job that will be a bit more stress but also higher pay. Higher pay is not the only reason but it seems attractive. Working with a local team feel more secure/stable. Project is cool but in January I might have forego the excitement

If you're truly FI, you shouldn't be worried about stability of the job.  Sounds like maybe there's something else going on with the current job.  Perhaps you'd just prefer to be part of a local team in general?  Also, if FI, you wouldn't have a need for higher pay, so why is that a concern?  You could theoretically switch to a local low stress part time job if you found one and be OK.  To me it seems like you're not comfortably FI even though the numbers look good.  I understand that, especially with how bad the economy is currently.  Sounds like you've got a lot of thinking to do!

[lutorm]

You say you're at 3% WR, but is that lean or fat? 3% has historically been safe under (almost?) all circumstances. If you are also in a situation where you can trim expenses further if you feel like it's needed, then you have even more margin.

Nothing says you have to stop working because you're FI. But if it's a feeling of economic insecurity that's pushing to you do this, then it seems likely to be based in your personal psychology and likely you'd never feel secure. I suspect it would bring you more happiness if you could overcome this feeling and adopt a mindset of plenty as opposed to scarcity.

[force majeure]

"a mindset of plenty"

You sound like my Buddhist girlfriend.
I dont follow that idea, and its dangerous to ignore your numbers, SWR, safety net, flexibility to earn more, spend less.

[EscapeVelocity2020]

Income should be at the bottom of the list if you are FI, but it seems to keep popping up.  I am still working because I have kids at home and figured out that I'd prefer not to be a SAHP.  The income, family healthcare coverage, having paid off our home and cars, tax advantaged savings accounts, and other benefits have been 'nice to have' but the stash snowball is taking care of itself, even with adverse inflation and market conditions.  The final thing my FI gave us was the ability to dial down equity exposure (hence having no debt and large cash / stable value reserves).  So why do I keep working now that the kids are starting to head off to college and I have the 529 plan fully funded?  I guess I like the routine, the challenges, I like international travel on the company dime, I enjoy the workplace environment and the people I work with (when they do come in to the office, which is still sporadic), and I like the fact that I'm free to quit (or at least very forcefully negotiate terms, with 'failure' meaning that they fire me and I get severance and unemployment, if I wanted some return of what I paid in to...).

There are plenty of reasonable reasons to 'work' after FI (MMM still publishes posts and maintains an ad-supported website, does home renovation, has a MMM HQ small business venture with partners, who knows what else, and files complicated taxes...).  But 'work' should be at your discretion and you now have the FI freedom to say NO to things you don't want to do!!!  Best part of the I that the F can buy.

[lutorm]

"a mindset of plenty"

You sound like my Buddhist girlfriend.
I dont follow that idea, and its dangerous to ignore your numbers, SWR, safety net, flexibility to earn more, spend less.

With all due respect, if you're at <3% WR, you're not ignoring your numbers. My point is that you can always come up with scenarios where you'd run out of money, so should you then never retire? I believe it's a mistake to exclusively focus on a 0.1% risk of something bad happening that you can't plan for in advance anyway and ignore the 99.9% probability that it will work out (no to mention the 100% probability that you will die) and the confidence that if something unthinkable happens you're a capable person and will be able to deal with it at that time.

There's a difference between prudently planning and thinking you can predict the future, and in the end you have to learn to live with uncertainty.

[vagavince]

After some soul searching. I came to the conclusion job is whatever i want after FI

Since I no longer need the income. I could take it easy and not worry about output, or I could find something I’m passionate about, or I can go aggressive for more money, or I can just get a job to let me travel or experience more.

The revelation I got is it doesn’t have to be only one of this thing. Because of the freedom FI give me I could cycle through them depend on my mood.

I’m  currently in the slow down and experience more mode. I may switch to passionate/aggressive mode next year. Career is long. I don’t see myself to fully stop working yet. But I think making conscious decisions to pick which part of cycle I want is a good alternative to retire early

[vagavince]

Why do I want my to get more money at work when I’m FI?

My daily life is fine. The extra money won’t be big enough to make difference on big items (buying a house). If I get pay more I probably just save it anyway.

I realized it’s less about absolute money but more about fear. Fear of being left behind by coworkers, fear of insecurity (want a bigger nest egg).