What does it take to become Mustachian?

[hybrid]

A few months ago at a Mustachian lunch in Richmond one of our group asked if the rest of us were people that had always thought outside the box. Turns out that yes indeed, all of us could be pretty unconventional at times and were open to unconventional ways of thinking. This from a group of conservatively dressed office workers, not hipsters.

I've been trying to spread the frugal gospel for the past year with mixed results (as expected). Some folks like Mustachian Buddy (you know him as luckbetterskill ) only needed a small nudge, as they were already smart with money and becoming more frugal with discretionary funds wasn't all that radical. Adult daughter is totally on board and recently celebrated paying off the last of her student loans ahead of schedule. One of my friends ditched cable, bought cheaper cell phone plans and is working harder at retiring some debts. With others it has been a bigger change, and results have varied with some small successes here and there.  And with still others I've set the hook and can't get a nibble, and with others I don't even bother trying, they are clearly set in their ways.

So it's recently had me wondering, what personality types are most receptive to this nonconformist way of living. Here are a few things I think stand out.

1. If one is relatively immune to peer pressure, then going against the grain is easier to do. I think the numerous IT folks here, who are often on the social fringes to begin with, have less trouble with this. 
2. If one is already willing to delay fleeting gratification in the short term, Mustachianism is a natural extension of that. Folks who crave instant gratification will struggle with not buying the next new toy.
3. If one is ecologically motivated, Mustachianism, especially biking, is also a natural extension. I think that's why this forum is far more socially liberal than conservative.
4. If one digs optimizing, which is what so many Eurogames focus on, then Mustachianism is a natural extension. I think that's why there are so many  <------- gamers here.
5. If one enjoys minimalism (or perhaps just a lot less "stuff"), Mustachianism is just a few small steps away from that. Be a minimalist and live frugally = Mustachian bank account.

What about you, dear reader? What did you see in yourself that set you apart from the crowd that you also see in other Mustachians? What do you see in others that makes you think, hmmmm, that one could get on board too? 

 

[jfer_rose]

I think you're on to something.

Numbers 1,3, and 5 on your list are particularly relevant to me. As someone who has been vegetarian for 17 years, and used the word "weird" to describe myself well before that-- I have never been one to care what my peers are saying. Oh, and I've never owned a car either. Although I don't think I necessarily appear this way on the surface, I've never really felt mainstream my entire life. I'm one to question everything and to do something just because everyone else is doing it-- well, that's a completely foreign concept to me.

Number 3. Yup, yup, yup! I became super interested in sustainability in college and chose a career based on that interest. Also, I have never owned a car, so biking and walking were part of my life before Mustachianism. But this inclination/interest made Mustachianism just a minor shift for me rather than a major change.

Number 5. Yup, yup again. I've been interested in minimalism/voluntary simplicity since college too. Also such a great fit with the MMM community. And a more recent interest in small-space living fits in really well too.

Nice list you've come up with there, hybrid!

[Mrs. Frugalwoods]

These observations resonate with me (no surprise) and much of my ethos stems from being totally unconcerned with what others think about our lifestyle. I actually recently wrote a post on the very topic of why frugality isn't mainstream. My husband and I feel free from peer pressure and social norms--not to say we don't fall victim at times, but we live our lives the way we want to, which just so happens to be extraordinarily frugally :). We've always structured our lives in such a way that frugality is a by-product. It truly defines our world view. The fact that we'll retire early is, in a sense, another by-product...

Some of our frugal by-products:
-My husband and I have always eschewed the concept of paying people to do things for us--him because he's stubborn and likes to figure things out and me because I'm usually convinced we'll do a better job since we have a vested interest in the outcome.
-We're deeply concerned with health and nutrition and cooking one's own food is healthier. As is eating fresh, non-packaged goods.
-We love being active and exercise is a free method of entertainment. Our ideal day is spent hiking in the woods.
-We're both competitive by nature and we love "winning" at frugality. We regularly high-five over net worth and spreadsheets. I'm sure we're not the only ones...
-We are homebodies. We both get overwhelmed and stressed in excessively social situations. We used to live in Washington, DC where we had to do the cocktail party circuit for work and while we both CAN work a room, it leaves us exhausted and drained. It's a lot cheaper to chill at home with our dog and a few friends (or better yet, in the woods!).
-We've always been unusual and we 100% own it and thrive on it.
...and my husband is a software engineer, which certainly plays into our non-conformist, minimalist, efficiency mindset...

I deeply appreciate this forum because it's helpful, inspiring, and fun to hear from others who are navigating a similar journey. So I say, thank you fellow Mustachians for the advice, thoughts, musings, humor, and wisdom!

[Wildflame]

1. I go one step further - I don't have peers. No peers, no pressure, amirite? =D

2. Yeah... I kindofsortof don't really agree with that for myself. I actually indulge myself all the time - it just turns out I don't really want all that many things. Perhaps that's just my strong strain of minimalism.

3. Eh. Ecological benefits are secondary or even tertiary. I just want to be lazy.

4. Optimise all the things! Surely everyone calculates gold and xp per hour when grinding, or how to get optimal DPS or survivability. Right?

5. Yup. Who gives a damn about stuff? Give me tasty food, a good book / game / the internet and a nice warm place to curl up, and I'm happy.

@Mrs. Frugalwoods: I absolutely empathise with the drain of working a room. Zzz... networking is for sociopaths and alcoholics.

[Spartana]

What about you, dear reader? What did you see in yourself that set you apart from the crowd that you see in other Mustachians? What do you see in others that makes you think, hmmmm, that one could get on board too?

Natural born Rebel - occasionally with a cause but usually just because. I like being the outlier amongst the crowd around here (upscale wanna-be SoCal), and while being a rebel isn't always the best thing for me in some situations, it seems that I will rebel against whatever the established status quo is. Fortunately, in mustachian terms, this has worked greatly to my advantage.

[Zikoris]

Willingness to put a bit of effort into something you're not directly getting paid for. It's puzzling to me how many people put SO MUCH effort into their day jobs, but cooking their meals, cleaning their homes, hunting for a cheaper apartment, researching cheaper phone or internet options? "That's so much work! I could never do that!"

I consider myself a pretty lazy person (my boyfriend often has to grab my foot and drag me out of bed while patiently reminding me why we need to go somewhere), and even I manage to cook all our meals, make bread every two days, do any sorts of repairs/mending/fixing that needs to be done, and maintain an organized, efficient household.

[Schaefer Light]

I care about freedom first and foremost, and I really don't give a damn what anyone else thinks of me.  I can see where those two things would help ;).

[Spartana]

Willingness to put a bit of effort into something you're not directly getting paid for. It's puzzling to me how many people put SO MUCH effort into their day jobs, but cooking their meals, cleaning their homes, hunting for a cheaper apartment, researching cheaper phone or internet options? "That's so much work! I could never do that!"

I consider myself a pretty lazy person (my boyfriend often has to grab my foot and drag me out of bed while patiently reminding me why we need to go somewhere), and even I manage to cook all our meals, make bread every two days, do any sorts of repairs/mending/fixing that needs to be done, and maintain an organized, efficient household.

Funny as I'm the opposite of this. My view is that time has the greatest value to me of all things in this world and I want to spend it doing things I enjoy rather then things I don't. Of course I lead a pretty simple, spartan and basic lifestyle so there isn't many things I have to do, but if they take up too much time or are too much work, I just won't do them.

[Zikoris]

Willingness to put a bit of effort into something you're not directly getting paid for. It's puzzling to me how many people put SO MUCH effort into their day jobs, but cooking their meals, cleaning their homes, hunting for a cheaper apartment, researching cheaper phone or internet options? "That's so much work! I could never do that!"

I consider myself a pretty lazy person (my boyfriend often has to grab my foot and drag me out of bed while patiently reminding me why we need to go somewhere), and even I manage to cook all our meals, make bread every two days, do any sorts of repairs/mending/fixing that needs to be done, and maintain an organized, efficient household.

Funny as I'm the opposite of this. My view is that time has the greatest value to me of all things in this world and I want to spend it doing things I enjoy rather then things I don't. Of course I lead a pretty simple, spartan and basic lifestyle so there isn't many things I have to do, but if they take up too much time or are too much work, I just won't do them.

The funny thing is, after a putting a small amount of effort in to get a good system running, it requires barely any effort to sustain it. 90% of what I would cook is ready in 30 minutes, and often a chunk of that time is oven time with me reading a book. Bread takes about 5 minutes of actual work, followed by a bunch of rising. Hanging clothes to dry takes about 5 minutes. Finding a cheap apartment is a few hours of work every several years or longer. People look at the initial time investment of, say, learning basic cooking and getting regular grocery shopping done, and say "Forget it! Too much work!".

[Noodle]

One idea that gets discussed less often here but is true for many in the general population is that for many people of faith, deliberately living on less is a reflection of their beliefs. One of my favorite frugality blogs (well-written, good advice) is by an author who strongly identifies as a Christian and will reference her beliefs as related to her life choices.

[Spartana]

Willingness to put a bit of effort into something you're not directly getting paid for. It's puzzling to me how many people put SO MUCH effort into their day jobs, but cooking their meals, cleaning their homes, hunting for a cheaper apartment, researching cheaper phone or internet options? "That's so much work! I could never do that!"

I consider myself a pretty lazy person (my boyfriend often has to grab my foot and drag me out of bed while patiently reminding me why we need to go somewhere), and even I manage to cook all our meals, make bread every two days, do any sorts of repairs/mending/fixing that needs to be done, and maintain an organized, efficient household.

Funny as I'm the opposite of this. My view is that time has the greatest value to me of all things in this world and I want to spend it doing things I enjoy rather then things I don't. Of course I lead a pretty simple, spartan and basic lifestyle so there isn't many things I have to do, but if they take up too much time or are too much work, I just won't do them.

The funny thing is, after a putting a small amount of effort in to get a good system running, it requires barely any effort to sustain it. 90% of what I would cook is ready in 30 minutes, and often a chunk of that time is oven time with me reading a book. Bread takes about 5 minutes of actual work, followed by a bunch of rising. Hanging clothes to dry takes about 5 minutes. Finding a cheap apartment is a few hours of work every several years or longer. People look at the initial time investment of, say, learning basic cooking and getting regular grocery shopping done, and say "Forget it! Too much work!".

You're probably right - the majority of the "work" comes upfront in the organizing, and once it's done, it's easy afterwards. I think for me, I value time more so then money so there are many things (like a gardener to mow the lawn twice a month) that I opt to do even if I could do them myself. Not very mustachian but I'm massively frugal in other ways that don't matter to me. And I keep things pretty basic - for example I have a simple diet (mostly raw foods vegan) so "cooking" involves grabbing an apple and some veggies :-)! Takes a second. Same with laundry and household chores - as a single female who's retired I live in shorts and tanktops so rarely have to do much laundry and using a dryer is both faster and easier for me. I'm also a minimalist so only takes a few minutes for me to clean, etc... So by keeping my life pretty basic, I can free up more time from chores that I don't like. I do own a house and it is one of the biggest time (and money) sucks of my life. There is constantly something that needs done besides the basic cleaning and maintenance.  Drives me insane! So I do hire out lots of that when I can (even if I can fix it myself) because the time is more valuable then the money to me. My greatest joy in life will be when I no longer have a "to do" list :-)!

[marty998]

1. I go one step further - I don't have peers. No peers, no pressure, amirite? =D
Yes agree

3. Eh. Ecological benefits are secondary or even tertiary. I just want to be lazy.
Yes, agree with that too

4. Optimise all the things! Surely everyone calculates gold and xp per hour when grinding, or how to get optimal DPS or survivability. Right?

I once played a MMORPG game. All that time spent on it could probably have been put to better use. But once I cracked the maths formulas and worked out how to optimise levelling up, I had quintillions of power to burn.

5. Yup. Who gives a damn about stuff? Give me tasty food, a good book / game / the internet and a nice warm place to curl up, and I'm happy.

Yes agree with that too

@Mrs. Frugalwoods: I absolutely empathise with the drain of working a room. Zzz... networking is for sociopaths and alcoholics.

No contest. Hit the nail on the head with that one

[Daisy]

#4 all the way! I love optimizing. I think I get it from my mother.

I over-analyze a lot of things and try to find ways to minimize effort and be more efficient in order to avoid doing extra work. Some may call it lazy, but I see it more as efficiency. Procrastination is under-rated. Many times the work goes away once others realize the work wasn't really necessary at all.

One example is how I load the dishwasher. I always group the spoons, forks, knives together as I load it because it makes unloading the dishwasher a lot easier. I also finely stack the dishes next to each other without any wasted space to totally fill up the dishwasher before turning it on. One of my pet peeves is when visitors come over and help with the dishes after dinner. Invariably, the next time I open up the dishwasher I find gaps between dishes, the utensils not properly organized and it drives me nuts and I correct it. I can't say I came up with this myself as my mother and brother are the same. We are proud of our dishwasher loading/unloading techniques.

I also like to cook in bulk and freeze stuff since it minimizes future work. It's the same amount of work to make a large batch of something since you are dirtying the same amount of pots.

ER - less work - what's not to love?

[odput]

#6 the strong desire to be right.  Something like 95% (no source so feel free to correct the number) of businesses fail, and I don't need to tell you guys the odds in Vegas or the lotteries.  Running your finances efficiently is the way to statistically "beat the system"

[Tempe]

#4 all the way! I love optimizing. I think I get it from my mother.

I over-analyze a lot of things and try to find ways to minimize effort and be more efficient in order to avoid doing extra work. Some may call it lazy, but I see it more as efficiency. Procrastination is under-rated. Many times the work goes away once others realize the work wasn't really necessary at all.

One example is how I load the dishwasher. I always group the spoons, forks, knives together as I load it because it makes unloading the dishwasher a lot easier. I also finely stack the dishes next to each other without any wasted space to totally fill up the dishwasher before turning it on. One of my pet peeves is when visitors come over and help with the dishes after dinner. Invariably, the next time I open up the dishwasher I find gaps between dishes, the utensils not properly organized and it drives me nuts and I correct it. I can't say I came up with this myself as my mother and brother are the same. We are proud of our dishwasher loading/unloading techniques.

I also like to cook in bulk and freeze stuff since it minimizes future work. It's the same amount of work to make a large batch of something since you are dirtying the same amount of pots.

ER - less work - what's not to love?

I do that, then all you have to do is grab a handful and dump it in the drawer, no grabbing one at a time and sorting. Saves so much time. same on loading dishes, it drives me nuts when more stuff could have gone into the load.



#1-3 is it for me. I haven't had peers at times to judge me, and then if I did I didn't care. This extended to being honest when I was being asked out and ignored the pressure to be 'nice' to save feelings, and told them not interested very clearly. I'm usually good at delaying gratification, except for avoiding procrastination and playing video games before  a task :P
I can't stand how people can go through so much trash in a week, or day. I have to worry about not taking out the trash after a week because some things are getting smelly from being in so long. (I would like to compost but don't have the space to do so yet.)

[Mikaelus]

Yeah, I think you're onto something here, Hybrid...

1. I've always been a non-conformist. I was one of the weird kids in school, never cared what other people thought about me, probably good training for a frugal lifestyle.

2. My parents taught me about saving and delaying gratification as a kid. I was always the kid saving that dollar from Grandma when everyone else was buying sweets.

3. I'd say I care about the environment. If I'm honest I have to admit it's not my first reason for trying to be FI, but it's a nice bonus.

4. I'm not really a gamer, but I do like optimizing...

5. I didn't think I loved minimalism, but now I'm getting into it more and more. Not having a house full of crap is pretty great.

[theincurableapprentice]

One example is how I load the dishwasher. I always group the spoons, forks, knives together as I load it because it makes unloading the dishwasher a lot easier.

you just changed my life! thank you for the tip.  Your note really resonated with me because we are constantly looking for ways to be more efficient at work.... but I haven't done the analysis at home like I could to make life run smoother there.  So odd that I haven't made the connection yet.  Thanks for calling it out in such a clear way. :)

[apfroggy0408]

I follow buddhism/zen first, minimalism second, frugality comes as an extension.

[RyanAtTanagra]

For me it started as a desire to not be dependent on anyone or anything.  I don't know why, but I hate dependencies (I didn't grow up without being able to rely on my parents or anything).  I periodically stop intaking caffeine, alcohol, etc if I feel I'm starting to build a dependency to them, even if there are no other signs of problems developing.  I just hate the possible dependence.  So mustachianism for me is a way to avoid be dependent on others (my employer).  It started when I was very financially trapped.

Some of he others hold true as well, but they're secondary.

[Daisy]

One example is how I load the dishwasher. I always group the spoons, forks, knives together as I load it because it makes unloading the dishwasher a lot easier.

you just changed my life! thank you for the tip.  Your note really resonated with me because we are constantly looking for ways to be more efficient at work.... but I haven't done the analysis at home like I could to make life run smoother there.  So odd that I haven't made the connection yet.  Thanks for calling it out in such a clear way. :)

You're welcome. ;-)

I wish I could help with more. I always think what will cause less work in the future with minimizing any current work to get there...like the dishwasher example.

One of the reasons I like my CSA is it requires a lot less thought and work to get my groceries this way - in addition to the fresh produce angle of it. I can order the box of produce (they provide several choices) that I want online the week before. Then I pass by someone's house on my way home from work and quickly pick up my box. It would be a lot more work to drive to the grocery store and surviving the parking lot headaches, having to go through the produce aisle and mentally prepare the meals for the coming week or two, stand in line at the checkout counter and unload all of the produce on the conveyer belt, lug the bags to the car, etc.

I probably do other things but that's all I can come up with for now. Just always try to optimize and your future lazy self will thank you. ;-)

Thankfully I have a sister, brother, and mom that all like to do the same so we compare notes a lot. I guess we are a strange family...

[Otsog]

I think everyone self-identifies as an unconventional thinker and being immune to peer pressure. 

Peer pressure isn't inherently bad either.  It seems people use peer pressure all the time to try to convert people to the way of the Mustache.

[tanhanivar]

I think it helped being raised (as if) in a different era! I'm a child of the '80s but pretty much missed them - my parents (nurse/army officer) moved out west and became graziers, and we had a party line telephone, wood stove, school of the air by flying doctor radio, etc. They spent a lot of time learning how to do everything from scratch, so the house was full of self-sufficiency guides and Bushcraft books. There was nowhere to spend money, everything was homemade, the grocery stores was a long way away, and while we had a lot of visitors but they were usually lost missionaries, lost Dutch or Welsh backpackers, or pig-shooting soldiers. We also never had debt from outside the family, and I never saw my parents going to a 9-5 job (it was a bit all-or-nothing out there). When I did go away to school for 11-12 it was a boarding school, so in spite of the occasional fling with conventional schooling during a few years in the city (when my dad went to theological college, so we still had to be very frugal!), even then it was a case of living at school. Lots of books, no debt, no money, lots of food... We lived very well, and I loved it, and managed to get through 6 1/2 years of university with no substantial side-income (a bit of tutoring and seasonal work).

Then I became a lawyer, and it was just. such. an. effort. to learn to be an office worker. Nothing prepared me! It took me 10 years to get a gym membership. I've still never fully adjusted to Modern Life. Even my eating out/coffee shop addiction was deliberate: I loved sitting in cafes watching the world go by when I was overseas, and made a concerted effort to do the same at home.

So Mustachianism has been a joyful release in a way - trying to get back to the life I loved and wanted. Finding a peer group with whom it is easier to fit in (in with whom it is easier to fit?).

I'm not a fit, sporty, optimise-everything person, either. I've always been round, happy and lazy (although I prefer the term "energy efficient"). I've liked to *know* how to do things from first principles, even if I choose not to *do* them.

 

One idea that gets discussed less often here but is true for many in the general population is that for many people of faith, deliberately living on less is a reflection of their beliefs. One of my favorite frugality blogs (well-written, good advice) is by an author who strongly identifies as a Christian and will reference her beliefs as related to her life choices.

This is definitely part of it too, although very bound up with my upbringing. I'm a Christian, and so principles of good stewardship and modest living are highly compatible. (Modest in the sense of below-one's-means and not-flamboyant, and I've heard some good arguments for that being an interpretation of injunctions to "dress modestly" as well!).

[Threshkin]

One example is how I load the dishwasher. I always group the spoons, forks, knives together as I load it because it makes unloading the dishwasher a lot easier.

you just changed my life! thank you for the tip.  Your note really resonated with me because we are constantly looking for ways to be more efficient at work.... but I haven't done the analysis at home like I could to make life run smoother there.  So odd that I haven't made the connection yet.  Thanks for calling it out in such a clear way. :)

Actually this is suboptimal.  Especially with spoons because they will nest together and may not get clean.

[Rob]

Interesting thread. Total optimizer here. Delayed gratification definitely applies to me as well but when I saw the optimization one it was like a lightbulb. It's probably my biggest reason for success at work. It's funny because a lot of my effort to optimize things stems from my laziness. Interesting parallel that I've always had.

[Primm]

One example is how I load the dishwasher. I always group the spoons, forks, knives together as I load it because it makes unloading the dishwasher a lot easier.

you just changed my life! thank you for the tip.  Your note really resonated with me because we are constantly looking for ways to be more efficient at work.... but I haven't done the analysis at home like I could to make life run smoother there.  So odd that I haven't made the connection yet.  Thanks for calling it out in such a clear way. :)

Actually this is suboptimal.  Especially with spoons because they will nest together and may not get clean.

I put them into the same slots, but with spoons and forks I alternate them. So they sit like this - )()()()()()()( - and they don't nest together.

Not obsessive, I swear...

[wtjbatman]

I think everyone self-identifies as an unconventional thinker and being immune to peer pressure. 

No shit. And the more "intelligent" the group of people, the more often they remind themselves of those facts.

I'm rebelling against this unconventional thinker attitude. I'm the most rebel.

[DollarBill]

#6 the strong desire to be right.  Something like 95% (no source so feel free to correct the number) of businesses fail, and I don't need to tell you guys the odds in Vegas or the lotteries.  Running your finances efficiently is the way to statistically "beat the system"

#7: When reality sets in...Just as if you don't eat right the doctor will tell you bad news. Same as when someone figures out that they are over spending and will never be able to retire. That's when reality kicks in and life tells them to cut back. At some point it becomes clear to all.