Author Topic: What do you all think of think of this (sad story about money problems)?  (Read 4145 times)

OzzieandHarriet

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By Ray Suarez, who used to be a regular voice on public radio:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/04/30/i-clung-middle-class-i-aged-pandemic-pulled-me-under/?arc404=true

Some of this doesn’t add up, like he has left out some crucial info.

bacchi

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You mean like his subsidies for his $2800/month insurance premium?

If he's not getting subsidies, then he's making over $67k, after premiums, which seems to be plenty for someone with no mortgage and no kids.


OzzieandHarriet

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I meant stuff like why does he not have an emergency fund? This shutdown has gone on for only about two months now; why has someone who has had several long-term high-paying jobs not saved any ready cash to last longer than that? Especially being self-employed. And the business with the dental insurance: we had that for a long time, and all ours covered was regular cleanings and exams. Anything beyond that was covered by general health insurance (admittedly ours is good).

Virgil Starkwell

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By Ray Suarez, who used to be a regular voice on public radio:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/04/30/i-clung-middle-class-i-aged-pandemic-pulled-me-under/?arc404=true

Some of this doesn’t add up, like he has left out some crucial info.

Like the fact that he worked for Al Jazeera, an anti-American and anti-Jew media network that (somehow) failed in America? You reap what you sow.

dresden

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It was an emotional article not a factual one.  I think some of his points are valid about older workers facing more grim job prospects, etc. 

Without having all the facts it's really hard to comment.

Like him I am over 50, paying for our own healthcare, have no dental insurance but have a low-cost dental savings card which gives us discounted rates at dentists.   Unlike him my only income is a small pension which is obviously alot less than he makes because my insurance plan is about $100/month through healthcare.gov and includes dental/vision although I would never get dental  through the plan again.  If we didn't get dental/vision the same plan would be about $44/month which is what we will do next year.

Unlike him I left work voluntarily - never looked for other opportunities so I have no idea what obstacles I would face.  When I am ready to go back to work part-time I do expect to make less - and I will be very picky about the work too and will only work if the situation is right for me.

What I would be doing in his shoes is taking a long hard look at expenses and what I could do to reduce expenses to line up better with my current and expected retirement income.  I would suspect given his successful career if he saved for retirement he is probably fine right now if he lowers his monthly costs.  I hope he doesn't do what many do - burn through retirement income as a short-term fix without adjusting expenses and expectations.


Knapptyme

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I would guess if he's still near D.C. (within a 2 hour commute) that his place, if indeed he owns it mortgage free, would provide him and his wife with a nice life in a LCOL area.

And yes, this is not a financial piece by any means. And yes, it may be hard for older people to reenter the workforce anywhere close to what they think they're worth.

MarciaB

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Any way to get around the paywall?

Slow2FIRE

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I would guess if he's still near D.C. (within a 2 hour commute) that his place, if indeed he owns it mortgage free, would provide him and his wife with a nice life in a LCOL area.

And yes, this is not a financial piece by any means. And yes, it may be hard for older people to reenter the workforce anywhere close to what they think they're worth.

I haven't lived in DC in about 5 years, but last time I was there you could pick up a townhome in Springfield (30-45 minute commute to most of Alexandria, Arlington, DC, etc) for about $300K...can't imagine the prices went up THAT much.  (A quick Zillow search shows that $400k-500k is the going rate for the type of home I was thinking of).

Certainly not chump change, but with the major cost eliminated (mortgage) are you really saving that much other than having the equity available as cash on hand?

mm1970

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You mean like his subsidies for his $2800/month insurance premium?

If he's not getting subsidies, then he's making over $67k, after premiums, which seems to be plenty for someone with no mortgage and no kids.
He has kids.  The article starts with a conversation with his teenaged daughter.

OzzieandHarriet

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You mean like his subsidies for his $2800/month insurance premium?

If he's not getting subsidies, then he's making over $67k, after premiums, which seems to be plenty for someone with no mortgage and no kids.
He has kids.  The article starts with a conversation with his teenaged daughter.

That conversation had taken place some years before his current troubles, apparently (as later in the piece he said he had put his three kids through college).

OzzieandHarriet

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Al Jazeera America folded FOUR years ago, early 2016. (As I recall it was a pretty legit news source but according to Wikipedia they made some business mistakes setting it up.) If he was getting decent money as a freelancer over the past four years and he had such a dread of being poor it seems like he could have set up a better safety net. I certainly would have.

bacchi

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You mean like his subsidies for his $2800/month insurance premium?

If he's not getting subsidies, then he's making over $67k, after premiums, which seems to be plenty for someone with no mortgage and no kids.
He has kids.  The article starts with a conversation with his teenaged daughter.

That conversation had taken place some years before his current troubles, apparently (as later in the piece he said he had put his three kids through college).

Right, I meant that's he not currently supporting any kids.

If he is supporting his likely 20-something kids (He's 63 and his wife is 60.), then it does change the math.

Paper Chaser

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I would guess if he's still near D.C. (within a 2 hour commute) that his place, if indeed he owns it mortgage free, would provide him and his wife with a nice life in a LCOL area.

And yes, this is not a financial piece by any means. And yes, it may be hard for older people to reenter the workforce anywhere close to what they think they're worth.

I haven't lived in DC in about 5 years, but last time I was there you could pick up a townhome in Springfield (30-45 minute commute to most of Alexandria, Arlington, DC, etc) for about $300K...can't imagine the prices went up THAT much.  (A quick Zillow search shows that $400k-500k is the going rate for the type of home I was thinking of).

Certainly not chump change, but with the major cost eliminated (mortgage) are you really saving that much other than having the equity available as cash on hand?

$400-500k buys a hell of a lot of house in many places in the US. There are about a dozen states with median home prices below $150k. So if the DC place is only in the $400-500k ballpark, they could move to a place with lower cost of living and bank 6 figures easily while still living in a nice, safe, comfortable home. Adding six figures to 'the stache' can go a long way when you don't have a mortgage payment and goods/services are cheaper.


mm1970

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You mean like his subsidies for his $2800/month insurance premium?

If he's not getting subsidies, then he's making over $67k, after premiums, which seems to be plenty for someone with no mortgage and no kids.
He has kids.  The article starts with a conversation with his teenaged daughter.

That conversation had taken place some years before his current troubles, apparently (as later in the piece he said he had put his three kids through college).
It's not uncommon for children up to the age of 26 (now) to be on your insurance.

(For the record, when I am 60 and husband is 62 our kids will be 18 and 24.  One will definitely be on our insurance, and the other, potentially.)

Dee18

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What stood out to me was that he fully funded 3 kids through college so they wouldn't have debt.  I am close to his age and I have several friends who jeopardized their financial situations in their early 50s by fully funding their kids in college--some at private schools, some at state schools.  The full funding often included providing cars and car insurance, high end apartments, etc.  The parents never considered that their high paying jobs might vanish. One I know fully funded the oldest child through an expensive private school, then thought she had to do the same for her other two children even though by then her financial situation was precarious. 

BTDretire

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I'm 65 wife is 60, we have two kids 25 and 29, both still on our insurance, both still in school.
 So it happens. I just transitioned from our insurance to Medicare, now it's in my wife's name.
  We don't have his problem because we did save for the future.
 It's hard to feel sorry for someone that could have saved but didn't, vs those that had a poor situation and didn't.

YHD

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Reading between the line, he had an attitude that many mmm folks have, which is confidence in one’s ability to continue to find jobs /earn a living that would sustain him given the innate skills and past successes.  Maybe he thought he was on the right side of that bell curve, rather than an average 60 yo man in a dying business.

I don’t know how much he saved.  He did what some of us would like to do, give generously when we can, take care of our kids when we can. 

I have no take away or judgment, other than that I hope whatever nest egg I build will save me from having to write a story like that.

bigblock440

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Reading between the line, he had an attitude that many mmm folks have, which is confidence in one’s ability to continue to find jobs /earn a living that would sustain him given the innate skills and past successes.  Maybe he thought he was on the right side of that bell curve, rather than an average 60 yo man in a dying business.


I think most people feel like the could get a job not necessarily the same job or a job in their field.  Lots of unskilled or low skilled jobs out there.  Amazon is hiring warehouse people, I hear an ad on the radio every day for a local Dollar General distribution center with full medical and pay in the $16-25/hr range, wal-mart and fast food restaurants are nearly always hiring, it shouldn't be difficult to find a source of income for a little bit to take some of the pressure off the stash.  If they're retired already, they'd have years of expenses saved and would have time to look so they wouldn't even have to compete with the newly unemployed if they didn't want to.  No, it may not pay as well as the job you left, but it'd pay much more than zero, which is often all that's really needed.

SwordGuy

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I'm sad that he screwed up his retirement finances, but it's all on him.   He had the brains and education to know better and chose not do make the obvious choices to avoid this problem.    Queue the very tiny violin.

I'll reserve my compassion for the working poor who generally get shafted in all things or the folks who get sick or injured.

scantee

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My read on this is pretty different from everyone else’s. He doesn’t say that he is destitute just that losing a job late in middle-age can propel even highly paid, well-educated  workers into a situation where they need watch expenses in new ways. Mostly this just reads as him using empathy to situate the current crises for people. “It can happen to anyone” that sort of thing.

But certainly no one would accuse this forum of having an excess of empathy. Any chance to shit on someone I guess.

Bloop Bloop

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If you're highly paid and well-educated you should not be rocked by a redundancy in your 50s to the point that you're having to cut expenses. It means you weren't saving or budgeting properly for the first 30 years of your career. That's not a "bad thing" in the sense of being a moral failure, but it's going to limit any sympathy you get from this crowd.

You can excuse someone who's low paid or poorly educated for not having the discipline (or excess income) to pull that off but someone in a much more privileged situation can have very few excuses. I don't think pointing that out shows a lack of empathy. If anything, it displays an understanding of the very different life paths of the privileged vs the non-privileged. If the guy had worked as a process worker or cleaner his whole life, I'd be much more empathetic.

mm1970

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My read on this is pretty different from everyone else’s. He doesn’t say that he is destitute just that losing a job late in middle-age can propel even highly paid, well-educated  workers into a situation where they need watch expenses in new ways. Mostly this just reads as him using empathy to situate the current crises for people. “It can happen to anyone” that sort of thing.

But certainly no one would accuse this forum of having an excess of empathy. Any chance to shit on someone I guess.
Yep.  And this falls into the category of "you don't know what you don't know".

It's easy to be on the outside looking in, and pick apart what other people do.  This forum is great at that.

Thing is...many people just aren't prepared because they don't SEE what is going to happen.  And they don't see it in real life.

I grew up poor.  I have been pretty frugal my whole life because I remember that, and I don't want to be there again.  Fat fire folks, unite!  Sure, we could retire now but I need security, so ... not gonna.  I have seen what it means to be poor.  My father got laid off at 56 during the trucking deregulation in the 1980s (he was a diesel truck mechanic) and got another job...got laid off again.  Ended up working for $12k a year, no insurance.  He took social security a little early I think (my parents divorced about 3-4 years after the layoff), so he probably was taking SS at 60.  Now.  My dad was always frugal too, he grew up during the depression, so he was able to live on SS (less than $12k a year) until he died at almost 82. 

So...people who grew up like me or have SEEN things like this happen.  I have a BIL who worked in a repetitive motion job and by his early 50s his body was wrecked.  He's had surgery after surgery for his shoulder, back, and he's only 60 and will never work again.  He certainly never expected to be unable to work at 53 or whatever, just like my dad never expected to be unhireable.  How was he to know that law changes would eliminate the need for his job?

Similarly, a LOT of middle aged people that I see these days grew up VERY middle class so they literally don't know how to be poor.  They literally don't expect it.  It's a surprise.  And THESE dads are the ones who, if they could, paid for their kids education because they saw poorer kids saddled with college loans.

People really like to shit on kids who take out too many loans, but look: these are often 17 years old kids who don't know shit.  Their parents, in many cases, didn't go to college and figure "any degree is worth it".  Same with counselors.  They drink the kool-aid and BAM, too many college loans.  Add to that a significant % of full time jobs these days literally don't pay enough to affording housing, food, and healthcare.  That means there are winners and losers because there aren't enough good paying jobs to go around.  Hindsight is 20/20 when you are 30 and realize that the jobs aren't there...but who was going to expect the downturn in 2008 or COVID-19?

There are different levels of education...if you've never seen poverty or the decimation of your chosen profession.  If you've never seen someone over 50 become "redundant", then how do you know to expect it?

Bloop Bloop

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That's really an argument that says if you've lived a privileged life how are you expected to have done any self-reflection. I'm not sure I buy the argument.

My point is that if you've gotten to your 50s without requiring that sort of self-examination, without going through some financial or other trauma, you've lived a charmed life and have very little to complain about.