Author Topic: What comes after the ACA?  (Read 344841 times)

John122

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Re: What comes after the ACA?
« Reply #3450 on: September 16, 2017, 08:06:56 PM »
Just got a letter from HAP insurance in Michigan (my provider) that they will no longer be offering my insurance next year 2018 for ACA.. they said "We don't believe that raising rates by 52% is fair to any of our members...looks like my rates will be much higher in Michigan next year...
Sucks big time

DavidAnnArbor

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Re: What comes after the ACA?
« Reply #3451 on: September 16, 2017, 08:46:30 PM »
Just got a letter from HAP insurance in Michigan (my provider) that they will no longer be offering my insurance next year 2018 for ACA.. they said "We don't believe that raising rates by 52% is fair to any of our members...looks like my rates will be much higher in Michigan next year...
Sucks big time

Sorry to hear that. I have Blue Care Network of Michigan and haven't received any letter like that. I know also I'm protected by the subsidies formula.

brooklynguy

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Re: What comes after the ACA?
« Reply #3452 on: September 18, 2017, 02:33:30 PM »
It's not dead yet.

Cassidy and Graham are whipping really hard right now, but there are quite a few steps left for this and not very much time. The Parliamentarian decided that the budget authorization that would allow repeal to go through reconciliation dies on September 30th at the end of the Federal fiscal year. In addition, the House is on recess until the 25th. I'm not 100% sure but I think the deadline is for the president's signature, not just passage in both houses, so what passes in the Senate is basically what would pass in the House.

It's really bad for every state that expanded Medicaid, so if you have a Republican rep in an expansion state and you don't want this to pass, it's time to lean on them hard.

This threat seems to be growing more serious by the hour.  Arizona's governor just endorsed the bill, which makes it substantially more likely that McCain will vote in its favor.  The CBO also just announced that it will produce a budgetary score by early next week (in time to allow the bill to proceed for a vote before the end-of-month reconciliation deadline) but not provide a deeper qualitative analysis of the effects of the legislation--including its impact on health insurance coverage levels, which is sure to be detrimental--for "at least several weeks" (when it will be too late to impact voting decisions).

OurTown

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Re: What comes after the ACA?
« Reply #3453 on: September 18, 2017, 02:58:00 PM »
If they pass it, maybe it will be so shitty that a future Congress will have no choice but to fix it and we will get a public option or single payer. 

geekette

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Re: What comes after the ACA?
« Reply #3454 on: September 18, 2017, 03:04:53 PM »
Meanwhile, the sick get sicker and people go bankrupt.

McCain already backed it, from what I can see.

thenextguy

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Re: What comes after the ACA?
« Reply #3455 on: September 18, 2017, 04:54:54 PM »
Meanwhile, the sick get sicker and people go bankrupt.

McCain already backed it, from what I can see.

That article is a bit dated. McCain is now pretending to be undecided, but he'll probably back it in the end.

talltexan

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Re: What comes after the ACA?
« Reply #3456 on: September 19, 2017, 12:21:54 PM »
Here's an interesting, thoughtful, and non-hysterical examination of the Bernie bill:

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/opinion/yes-bernie-sanders%e2%80%99s-plan-moves-america-closer-to-single-payer/ar-AArYj4t

Obviously Sanders' bill stands no chance of passing, and we probably should be glad it doesn't, but he's doing a good job of shifting the debate.  What the author doesn't really point out is that republican bumbling on "repeal and replace" is what really changed the conversation.  Nothing like a good over-reach to force things back in the right direction.

It's not a good job of shifting debate if it discredits moderates to the point that Graham-Cassidy passes.

protostache

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Re: What comes after the ACA?
« Reply #3457 on: September 19, 2017, 01:05:30 PM »
Here's an interesting, thoughtful, and non-hysterical examination of the Bernie bill:

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/opinion/yes-bernie-sanders%e2%80%99s-plan-moves-america-closer-to-single-payer/ar-AArYj4t

Obviously Sanders' bill stands no chance of passing, and we probably should be glad it doesn't, but he's doing a good job of shifting the debate.  What the author doesn't really point out is that republican bumbling on "repeal and replace" is what really changed the conversation.  Nothing like a good over-reach to force things back in the right direction.

It's not a good job of shifting debate if it discredits moderates to the point that Graham-Cassidy passes.

At this point it seems like Sanders' choice to release M4A last week instead of on October 1st was a strategic blunder. Time will tell, though. The math on the Republican votes is basically the same as it was for skinny repeal, except there won't be conference with the House, nor will the House have the opportunity to amend it. If Cassidy-Graham passes the Senate the House is going to put it up for a vote as is.

The math is actually pretty interesting in the House. There are an awful lot of Republican representatives in states that would lose billions of funding. The margin on AHCA was only four votes and there's scuttlebutt that GOP reps have already decided to flip if it comes up.

nereo

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Re: What comes after the ACA?
« Reply #3458 on: September 19, 2017, 01:28:33 PM »


At this point it seems like Sanders' choice to release M4A last week instead of on October 1st was a strategic blunder. Time will tell, though. The math on the Republican votes is basically the same as it was for skinny repeal, except there won't be conference with the House, nor will the House have the opportunity to amend it. If Cassidy-Graham passes the Senate the House is going to put it up for a vote as is.

The math is actually pretty interesting in the House. There are an awful lot of Republican representatives in states that would lose billions of funding. The margin on AHCA was only four votes and there's scuttlebutt that GOP reps have already decided to flip if it comes up.

Flip in which direction?  GOPers who voted for AHCA flipping against it, or vice versa?

Seems pretty high-stakes to me, particularly for the House. Members from California and NY stand to lose tens of billions in Medicaid funding over the next decade.  15 other states would also see a net loss in funding.  It would be pretty damning to vote for a bill that cuts your state's funding ~6 months before your re-election campaign gets into full swing.

If I were in the House, I'd be pissed at the Senate GOP for throwing this cherry bomb through my window.  Come to think of it, that's not unlike what the House did to teh Senate with the AHCA.  Karma?

Either way the political costs could be enormous.  Members who vote for the bill but are in states who will see their benefits cut risk pissing off their election campaign and possibly blowing a hole in their state's budget. And GOPers who vote "no" will have to explain how 8 years of "repeal and repalce" couldn't be accomplished despite controlling all arms of the government.  Again. 
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protostache

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Re: What comes after the ACA?
« Reply #3459 on: September 19, 2017, 01:51:30 PM »


At this point it seems like Sanders' choice to release M4A last week instead of on October 1st was a strategic blunder. Time will tell, though. The math on the Republican votes is basically the same as it was for skinny repeal, except there won't be conference with the House, nor will the House have the opportunity to amend it. If Cassidy-Graham passes the Senate the House is going to put it up for a vote as is.

The math is actually pretty interesting in the House. There are an awful lot of Republican representatives in states that would lose billions of funding. The margin on AHCA was only four votes and there's scuttlebutt that GOP reps have already decided to flip if it comes up.

Flip in which direction?  GOPers who voted for AHCA flipping against it, or vice versa?

Sorry I should have been more specific. Flip against.

OurTown

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Re: What comes after the ACA?
« Reply #3460 on: September 19, 2017, 01:59:05 PM »
If that's true I hope they don't fuck it up at the last minute and pass it.

"I thought you were voting no."

"Wait, I though you were voting no."

"O fuck . . ."

nereo

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Re: What comes after the ACA?
« Reply #3461 on: September 19, 2017, 02:05:22 PM »
If that's true I hope they don't fuck it up at the last minute and pass it.

"I thought you were voting no."

"Wait, I though you were voting no."

"O fuck . . ."
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Threshkin

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Re: What comes after the ACA?
« Reply #3462 on: September 19, 2017, 04:15:39 PM »
Following

teen persuasion

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Re: What comes after the ACA?
« Reply #3463 on: September 19, 2017, 08:16:59 PM »


At this point it seems like Sanders' choice to release M4A last week instead of on October 1st was a strategic blunder. Time will tell, though. The math on the Republican votes is basically the same as it was for skinny repeal, except there won't be conference with the House, nor will the House have the opportunity to amend it. If Cassidy-Graham passes the Senate the House is going to put it up for a vote as is.

The math is actually pretty interesting in the House. There are an awful lot of Republican representatives in states that would lose billions of funding. The margin on AHCA was only four votes and there's scuttlebutt that GOP reps have already decided to flip if it comes up.

Flip in which direction?  GOPers who voted for AHCA flipping against it, or vice versa?

Seems pretty high-stakes to me, particularly for the House. Members from California and NY stand to lose tens of billions in Medicaid funding over the next decade.  15 other states would also see a net loss in funding.  It would be pretty damning to vote for a bill that cuts your state's funding ~6 months before your re-election campaign gets into full swing.

If I were in the House, I'd be pissed at the Senate GOP for throwing this cherry bomb through my window.  Come to think of it, that's not unlike what the House did to teh Senate with the AHCA.  Karma?

Either way the political costs could be enormous.  Members who vote for the bill but are in states who will see their benefits cut risk pissing off their election campaign and possibly blowing a hole in their state's budget. And GOPers who vote "no" will have to explain how 8 years of "repeal and repalce" couldn't be accomplished despite controlling all arms of the government.  Again.

You'd be amazed at how our reps put ideology over self-interest.  My rep sponsored a bill that would make the state ineligible for million in Medicaid funding, all because of a feud over county funding of it (the bitter unfunded mandates).

Quote
"I have never seen representatives in Washington fighting to take funding away from their home state, but that’s exactly what Faso, Collins and their colleagues have done. This shocking action from officials elected to help their constituents comes at a high price for New Yorkers: every resident of this state will be forced to pay the 'Faso-Collins federal tax' to make up the difference," Cuomo said in a statement.   

  http://www.lockportjournal.com/news/collins-amendment-included-in-senate-health-care-bill/article_a36173bf-ec16-5a3e-89f6-e6409cc89db0.html   

Inaya

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Re: What comes after the ACA?
« Reply #3464 on: September 20, 2017, 09:55:11 AM »
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2017/09/20/this-new-study-deals-a-blow-to-trumps-latest-obamacare-repeal-push/?utm_term=.acb348cbf1bb

If I'm understanding this correctly, this bill essentially redistributes even more of the blue states' money to red states.

Hopefully this will help sway them in lieu of a CBO study. But not holding my breath.
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nereo

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Re: What comes after the ACA?
« Reply #3465 on: September 20, 2017, 11:06:15 AM »
If I'm understanding this correctly, this bill essentially redistributes even more of the blue states' money to red states.

You understand correctly.  According to the best projections 34 states will have a net-loss of funding, and yes this includes almost all of the states that voted for HRC in 2016. States that did not expand medicaid under the ACA gain dollars. Texas stands to gain the most, both in absolute terms and per-capita.  CA, NJ, WA, OR, CT, MD and AZ are the biggest losers. 

One could argue that the ACA set this up to begin with, but each state decided whether or not to participate.

Not a coincidence, the rollbacks (if passed) would start in 2020, so their effects can go largely ignored until after the next presidential election - though they'll certainly be a talking point.
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protostache

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Re: What comes after the ACA?
« Reply #3466 on: September 20, 2017, 11:28:00 AM »
If I'm understanding this correctly, this bill essentially redistributes even more of the blue states' money to red states.

You understand correctly.  According to the best projections 34 states will have a net-loss of funding, and yes this includes almost all of the states that voted for HRC in 2016. States that did not expand medicaid under the ACA gain dollars. Texas stands to gain the most, both in absolute terms and per-capita.  CA, NJ, WA, OR, CT, MD and AZ are the biggest losers. 

One could argue that the ACA set this up to begin with, but each state decided whether or not to participate.

Not a coincidence, the rollbacks (if passed) would start in 2020, so their effects can go largely ignored until after the next presidential election - though they'll certainly be a talking point.

I don't think one can, actually. ACA as passed by Congress did not envision states being able to opt-out of Medicaid expansion. Twenty five states sued HHS in National Federation of Independent Business (NFIB) v. Sebelius (Kaiser Family Foundation PDF explainer) saying that forcing them to expand Medicaid so was unconstitutional. It's a complex decision, but basically the law stayed as-is (states are compelled to expand Medicaid) but the Secretary of HHS can't enforce it, which basically makes it an opt-in program.

nereo

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Re: What comes after the ACA?
« Reply #3467 on: September 20, 2017, 11:51:40 AM »
If I'm understanding this correctly, this bill essentially redistributes even more of the blue states' money to red states.

You understand correctly.  According to the best projections 34 states will have a net-loss of funding, and yes this includes almost all of the states that voted for HRC in 2016. States that did not expand medicaid under the ACA gain dollars. Texas stands to gain the most, both in absolute terms and per-capita.  CA, NJ, WA, OR, CT, MD and AZ are the biggest losers. 

One could argue that the ACA set this up to begin with, but each state decided whether or not to participate.

Not a coincidence, the rollbacks (if passed) would start in 2020, so their effects can go largely ignored until after the next presidential election - though they'll certainly be a talking point.

I don't think one can, actually. ACA as passed by Congress did not envision states being able to opt-out of Medicaid expansion. Twenty five states sued HHS in National Federation of Independent Business (NFIB) v. Sebelius (Kaiser Family Foundation PDF explainer) saying that forcing them to expand Medicaid so was unconstitutional. It's a complex decision, but basically the law stayed as-is (states are compelled to expand Medicaid) but the Secretary of HHS can't enforce it, which basically makes it an opt-in program.
interesting.  I remember that the opt-out was added later, but have become fuzzy on the details.
So can we argue about whether or not one can argue about it?
:-P
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jim555

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Re: What comes after the ACA?
« Reply #3468 on: September 20, 2017, 11:53:19 AM »
Every iteration get worse than the last one.  This bill would devastate the entire health care sector, demolish the marketplaces, ruin both the ACA Medicaid and traditional Medicaid.  Literally thousands will die as a direct result of lack of care.

OurTown

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Re: What comes after the ACA?
« Reply #3469 on: September 20, 2017, 12:34:26 PM »
http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/health-care-the-gop-literally-doesnt-know-what-its-doing

They don't know what's in this shit sandwich, and apparently don't care.

Threshkin

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Re: What comes after the ACA?
« Reply #3470 on: September 20, 2017, 01:10:50 PM »
http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/health-care-the-gop-literally-doesnt-know-what-its-doing

They don't know what's in this shit sandwich, and apparently don't care.

Definitely an unbiased source!

nereo

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Re: What comes after the ACA?
« Reply #3471 on: September 20, 2017, 01:15:50 PM »
Quote
A senior GOP aide added, “If there was an oral exam on the contents of the proposal, graded on a generous curve, only two Republicans could pass it. And one of them isn’t Lindsey Graham.”
yikes.
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Luck12

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Re: What comes after the ACA?
« Reply #3472 on: September 20, 2017, 02:07:34 PM »
http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/health-care-the-gop-literally-doesnt-know-what-its-doing

They don't know what's in this shit sandwich, and apparently don't care.

Definitely an unbiased source!

Just about every group is against this bill:  AMA, patient advocates, America's Health Insurance Plans, even many Republican governors.   That bad enough for you? 

sol

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Re: What comes after the ACA?
« Reply #3473 on: September 20, 2017, 03:49:53 PM »
I'm so tired of this BS that I almost hope they pass it, just so the GOP can own the mess they create. 

The problem with having such an ineffectual congress is that when elections finally roll around they will campaign on the same stupid ideas they campaigned on last time, but will never deliver because they are such bad ideas.  There is no intellectual accountability.  Repeal and replace!  Build the wall!  Bomb Iran!  Now they have all the power and should have no excuse for this dishonesty.  Either do what you promised and live with the consequences, or STFU about your shitty ideas that no one likes.

But please stop lying to hard working red state Americans about how their problems can get fixed.  Don't refuse to do anything just because the fixes look too much like the last administration's fixes.  Either do those, or try something new, but don't wring your hands with indecision, do nothing, and then campaign on the same ideas you JUST decided were stupid when you finally had the chance to actually manifest national policy changes.

Who am I kidding?  Reading my own paragraph makes it clear that is exactly what they want to do.  Refuse to recognize the legitimate concerns of red state voters, make those problems worse, then run for re-election by tapping into resentment over those same issues.  They have prioritized power over leadership.

This is how Rome fell, you know.

Exflyboy

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Re: What comes after the ACA?
« Reply #3474 on: September 20, 2017, 03:56:57 PM »
@ Sol...

"But at least is NOT Socialism"....:)

wenchsenior

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Re: What comes after the ACA?
« Reply #3475 on: September 20, 2017, 04:15:09 PM »
I'm so tired of this BS that I almost hope they pass it, just so the GOP can own the mess they create. 

The problem with having such an ineffectual congress is that when elections finally roll around they will campaign on the same stupid ideas they campaigned on last time, but will never deliver because they are such bad ideas.  There is no intellectual accountability.  Repeal and replace!  Build the wall!  Bomb Iran! Now they have all the power and should have no excuse for this dishonesty.  Either do what you promised and live with the consequences, or STFU about your shitty ideas that no one likes.

But please stop lying to hard working red state Americans about how their problems can get fixed.  Don't refuse to do anything just because the fixes look too much like the last administration's fixes.  Either do those, or try something new, but don't wring your hands with indecision, do nothing, and then campaign on the same ideas you JUST decided were stupid when you finally had the chance to actually manifest national policy changes.

Who am I kidding?  Reading my own paragraph makes it clear that is exactly what they want to do.  Refuse to recognize the legitimate concerns of red state voters, make those problems worse, then run for re-election by tapping into resentment over those same issues.  They have prioritized power over leadership.

This is how Rome fell, you know.

Don't forget trickle down economics...there seems to be no end of times people will fall for that, despite decades of evidence proving it doesn't work.

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Re: What comes after the ACA?
« Reply #3476 on: September 20, 2017, 04:37:50 PM »
I'm so tired of this BS that I almost hope they pass it, just so the GOP can own the mess they create. 

The problem with having such an ineffectual congress is that when elections finally roll around they will campaign on the same stupid ideas they campaigned on last time, but will never deliver because they are such bad ideas.  There is no intellectual accountability.  Repeal and replace!  Build the wall!  Bomb Iran!  Now they have all the power and should have no excuse for this dishonesty.  Either do what you promised and live with the consequences, or STFU about your shitty ideas that no one likes.

But please stop lying to hard working red state Americans about how their problems can get fixed.  Don't refuse to do anything just because the fixes look too much like the last administration's fixes.  Either do those, or try something new, but don't wring your hands with indecision, do nothing, and then campaign on the same ideas you JUST decided were stupid when you finally had the chance to actually manifest national policy changes.

Who am I kidding?  Reading my own paragraph makes it clear that is exactly what they want to do.  Refuse to recognize the legitimate concerns of red state voters, make those problems worse, then run for re-election by tapping into resentment over those same issues.  They have prioritized power over leadership.

This is how Rome fell, you know.
I'm torn about which would be worse for the GOP - passing this tax cut masquerading as a health-care plan or NOT passing it (or anything) and looking completely incompetent. The base is already fed up with their inability to get anything done - failure here would further solidify that image. 
Passing will probably give them a short-term boost, give DHJ something to crow about and let them say they've fulfilled a 7+ year promise.*. They might even be able to skate this through 2020 before things get real and states finally face the reality that they've got to insure more people with far less, and they don't have the money to make up the difference.  God help us if 2020 coincides with a recession (or causes one).


*promise being repeal and replace. They seem to have completely forgotten all their promises about better coverage, lower premiums etc.
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Fireball

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Re: What comes after the ACA?
« Reply #3477 on: September 20, 2017, 08:49:09 PM »
Dear friends, I'm afraid you don't understand how this works. Whether it passes or whether it doesn't will have no effect on how the GOP's base votes. These people's insurance was already terrible or non-existent pre-Obamacare, they're just too ignorant to realize it or can't understand that the people they already voted for are the reason why. The GOP already owns a lot of sh!tty policy that severely hurts their base, but that hasn't stopped them from controlling practically every public office from President to school crossing guard.

Until you live in a county that went 92% Trump it's tough to fathom how engrained some of these GOP talking points are.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2017, 08:50:47 PM by Fireball »

Paul der Krake

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Re: What comes after the ACA?
« Reply #3478 on: September 20, 2017, 09:05:30 PM »
Dear friends, I'm afraid you don't understand how this works. Whether it passes or whether it doesn't will have no effect on how the GOP's base votes. These people's insurance was already terrible or non-existent pre-Obamacare, they're just too ignorant to realize it or can't understand that the people they already voted for are the reason why. The GOP already owns a lot of sh!tty policy that severely hurts their base, but that hasn't stopped them from controlling practically every public office from President to school crossing guard.

Until you live in a county that went 92% Trump it's tough to fathom how engrained some of these GOP talking points are.
You don't need to convince the GOP base. You just need to convince the 0-3% of the electorate that decides elections.

Fireball

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Re: What comes after the ACA?
« Reply #3479 on: September 20, 2017, 09:50:37 PM »
Dear friends, I'm afraid you don't understand how this works. Whether it passes or whether it doesn't will have no effect on how the GOP's base votes. These people's insurance was already terrible or non-existent pre-Obamacare, they're just too ignorant to realize it or can't understand that the people they already voted for are the reason why. The GOP already owns a lot of sh!tty policy that severely hurts their base, but that hasn't stopped them from controlling practically every public office from President to school crossing guard.

Until you live in a county that went 92% Trump it's tough to fathom how engrained some of these GOP talking points are.
You don't need to convince the GOP base. You just need to convince the 0-3% of the electorate that decides elections.

That's not gone so well lately, eh? Besides, that 0-3% decides Presidential elections. They don't decide mayors, governors, city council, congressmen, etc. where the GOP seems to be doing quite well. A long recession is the only thing that's going to break that grip.

EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: What comes after the ACA?
« Reply #3480 on: September 20, 2017, 10:40:33 PM »
Dear friends, I'm afraid you don't understand how this works. Whether it passes or whether it doesn't will have no effect on how the GOP's base votes. These people's insurance was already terrible or non-existent pre-Obamacare, they're just too ignorant to realize it or can't understand that the people they already voted for are the reason why. The GOP already owns a lot of sh!tty policy that severely hurts their base, but that hasn't stopped them from controlling practically every public office from President to school crossing guard.

Until you live in a county that went 92% Trump it's tough to fathom how engrained some of these GOP talking points are.

Basically, repeal and replace was baked in as the #1 Trump promise (that and the Wall, but building a wall will take longer, cost more, and ultimately backfire repeatedly and bigly enough to make re-election of supporters difficult). 

'O-Care is failing, terrible, a disaster' has legs.  It affects everyone sooner or later, and being a country with un-affordable healthcare strikes fear into our hearts.  Kinda ironic, if people were smart enough to think about it. 

The country somehow made it through the first 100 days without the promised repeal and replace, but Trump doubled down by throwing the Republican bloc under the bus with Tweets about this being 7 years in the making.  If R&R doesn't happen before the Sept 30 deadline, things are going to be near impossible to resolve before 2018 midterm elections and 2020.  GOP is shaking in their conservative boots, trying to figure out if being spineless and stupid can somehow be spun that they were duped as opposed to having a spine and standing up for the hard work of crafting better legislation that is vetted by the CBO and actually deserves public support.
Transitioning to FIRE'd albeit somewhat cautiously...

Bateaux

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Re: What comes after the ACA?
« Reply #3481 on: September 21, 2017, 04:30:06 AM »
I'm with Sol.  I'm fed up with the ignorance of the average red state voter.   They never research anything, they never study cost increase trends that started decades before O-Care.  They refuse to accept that single payer would be more cost-effective vs for profit insurance.  Screw them!  Pass the shit and let them suffer.  I'm allocating between 500k and 1M to my FIRE kitty just for future health care costs.  These knuckle dragging idiots haven't got two nickels to rub together and they support tax cuts for the 1%. 
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nereo

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Re: What comes after the ACA?
« Reply #3482 on: September 21, 2017, 05:32:56 AM »
I'm with Sol.  I'm fed up with the ignorance of the average red state voter.   They never research anything, they never study cost increase trends that started decades before O-Care.  They refuse to accept that single payer would be more cost-effective vs for profit insurance.  Screw them!  Pass the shit and let them suffer.  I'm allocating between 500k and 1M to my FIRE kitty just for future health care costs.  These knuckle dragging idiots haven't got two nickels to rub together and they support tax cuts for the 1%.

What bothers me isn't the 'knuckle dragging idiots [who] haven't got two nickels to rub together' but rather the affluent a-holes that have been pushing this farce, insisting that this is a 'health care plan' when its all about reducing federal expenditures ON healthcare. It's literally the opposite of healthcare. It's an effort to reduce governmental expenses by cutting healthcare, period.

If you want to reduce entitlement spending - fine.  Buck the hell up and make that case, and try to argue that the US simply cannot provide its citizens with health care and everyone's on their own.  Good luck with that.  Of course they *can't* say that because it would expose the underlying lie that the most affluent country on earth is too poor to provide the services that all other governments in developed countries provide. ...but just don't cut military funding or try campaign finance reform, that's un'merican and anti-democratic. Supersonic stealth fighters are cool and colonoscopies are dull, so more of the former and less of the latter please.
The same people (Graham is top of the list) who want to cut health care by $210B over ten years are the ones arguing we need to increase military spending over $1T over the same time period. The argument seems to be that we need to do more to support our troops and protect our shores, but we can't support our sick and poor.  Wtf?!

I could go on, but this rant is just taking me into a dark space.
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Inaya

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Re: What comes after the ACA?
« Reply #3483 on: September 21, 2017, 07:23:26 AM »
The argument seems to be that we need to do more to support our troops and protect our shores, but we can't support our sick and poor.  Wtf?!

Yet we do a piss poor job of supporting our troops when they're back on our shores.
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OurTown

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Re: What comes after the ACA?
« Reply #3484 on: September 21, 2017, 08:09:31 AM »
I'm with Sol.  I'm fed up with the ignorance of the average red state voter.   They never research anything, they never study cost increase trends that started decades before O-Care.  They refuse to accept that single payer would be more cost-effective vs for profit insurance.  Screw them!  Pass the shit and let them suffer.  I'm allocating between 500k and 1M to my FIRE kitty just for future health care costs.  These knuckle dragging idiots haven't got two nickels to rub together and they support tax cuts for the 1%.

I'm about 6 years away from FIRE, assuming some kind of reasonable health care / health insurance option exists.  My fall back Plan B will probably be to exit my real (high-stress) job when I reach FIRE and increase my side gig to 20 hours just to qualify for insurance.

nereo

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Re: What comes after the ACA?
« Reply #3485 on: September 21, 2017, 08:34:57 AM »
The argument seems to be that we need to do more to support our troops and protect our shores, but we can't support our sick and poor.  Wtf?!

Yet we do a piss poor job of supporting our troops when they're back on our shores.
I don't dispute that, but I wonder whether comprehensive health care for all wouldn't go a long way towards supporting our vets once they are back on our shores. It wouldn't solve all problems but it could take care of a big one (the VA).
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goatmom

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Re: What comes after the ACA?
« Reply #3486 on: September 21, 2017, 10:00:03 AM »
Yes, they could also take care of the military kids who are the only ones not eligible to covered up to age 26.

Paul der Krake

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Re: What comes after the ACA?
« Reply #3487 on: September 21, 2017, 10:11:58 AM »
Can we get a couple hundred people die in front of the Senate? That'd make for some great TV. I'm cool with some amount of collateral damage, preferably on the side of the idiots who keep voting for this shit.

VoteCthulu

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Re: What comes after the ACA?
« Reply #3488 on: September 21, 2017, 02:16:21 PM »
Can we get a couple hundred people die in front of the Senate? That'd make for some great TV. I'm cool with some amount of collateral damage, preferably on the side of the idiots who keep voting for this shit.
Yep, nothing like Grade-A terrorism to keep the discussion civil...

Paul der Krake

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Re: What comes after the ACA?
« Reply #3489 on: September 21, 2017, 02:57:27 PM »
Can we get a couple hundred people die in front of the Senate? That'd make for some great TV. I'm cool with some amount of collateral damage, preferably on the side of the idiots who keep voting for this shit.
Yep, nothing like Grade-A terrorism to keep the discussion civil...
What? I'm advocating for shuttling people dying of lack of care to a highly public venue. Not killing people.

Roland of Gilead

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Re: What comes after the ACA?
« Reply #3490 on: September 21, 2017, 04:35:35 PM »
Can we get a couple hundred people die in front of the Senate? That'd make for some great TV. I'm cool with some amount of collateral damage, preferably on the side of the idiots who keep voting for this shit.

I get what you are saying but I was thinking more of something from The Running Man (the book, not the movie).

People with pre-existing heart conditions, we could have a Treadmill for Bucks reality show where they get access to healthcare if they don't die after 6 hours on a treadmill or something.

Cancer conditions...hmm, what would be an interesting way to see them die that would get good ratings from Republicans?  I need to re-read the book, there has to be something that would fit.

Good TV.   The president could really up his tweet game too!

VoteCthulu

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Re: What comes after the ACA?
« Reply #3491 on: September 21, 2017, 05:10:07 PM »
Can we get a couple hundred people die in front of the Senate? That'd make for some great TV. I'm cool with some amount of collateral damage, preferably on the side of the idiots who keep voting for this shit.
Yep, nothing like Grade-A terrorism to keep the discussion civil...
What? I'm advocating for shuttling people dying of lack of care to a highly public venue. Not killing people.
Read your first post again. There's nothing about sick people, and you want your political opponents to be part of the collateral damage when hundreds of people die. If that's really not what you meant to say, then you worded it very poorly.

RedwoodDreams

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Re: What comes after the ACA?
« Reply #3492 on: September 21, 2017, 05:46:26 PM »
I'm with Sol.  I'm fed up with the ignorance of the average red state voter.   They never research anything, they never study cost increase trends that started decades before O-Care.  They refuse to accept that single payer would be more cost-effective vs for profit insurance.  Screw them!  Pass the shit and let them suffer.  I'm allocating between 500k and 1M to my FIRE kitty just for future health care costs.  These knuckle dragging idiots haven't got two nickels to rub together and they support tax cuts for the 1%.

I'd agree with this if so many of those who'll suffer weren't children. No fault of their own.

BuildingFrugalHabits

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Re: What comes after the ACA?
« Reply #3493 on: September 21, 2017, 06:14:35 PM »
Potential new development:

http://ijr.com/2017/09/979983-republicans-attempt-buy-murkowskis-vote-new-draft-health-care-bill/

"This draft includes 3 separate provisions benefitting Alaska.

Alaska (along with Hawaii) will continue to receive Obamacare’s premium tax credits while they are repealed for all other states."

Here's an idea: why not just allow all states to keep the ACA tax credits if they want to.  Power to the states to decide right???

sol

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Re: What comes after the ACA?
« Reply #3494 on: September 22, 2017, 12:23:55 AM »
"This draft includes 3 separate provisions benefitting Alaska.

Alaska (along with Hawaii) will continue to receive Obamacare’s premium tax credits while they are repealed for all other states."

Where is the potential benefit in that shitty plan?  Why would Alaska agree to repeal the ACA for every state except Alaska?  Why not just, you know, not repeal the ACA and then Alaska can keep the ACA like it wants to, and so can everyone else.

farfromfire

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Re: What comes after the ACA?
« Reply #3495 on: September 22, 2017, 01:15:07 AM »
"This draft includes 3 separate provisions benefitting Alaska.

Alaska (along with Hawaii) will continue to receive Obamacare’s premium tax credits while they are repealed for all other states."

Where is the potential benefit in that shitty plan?  Why would Alaska agree to repeal the ACA for every state except Alaska?  Why not just, you know, not repeal the ACA and then Alaska can keep the ACA like it wants to, and so can everyone else.
Murkowski voted to repeal ACA in the past:
http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/262071-senate-approves-bill-repealing-much-of-obamacare

Why not now, as long as it doesn't hurt her voters?

NoStacheOhio

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Re: What comes after the ACA?
« Reply #3496 on: September 22, 2017, 06:10:55 AM »
Potential new development:

http://ijr.com/2017/09/979983-republicans-attempt-buy-murkowskis-vote-new-draft-health-care-bill/

"This draft includes 3 separate provisions benefitting Alaska.

Alaska (along with Hawaii) will continue to receive Obamacare’s premium tax credits while they are repealed for all other states."

Here's an idea: why not just allow all states to keep the ACA tax credits if they want to.  Power to the states to decide right???

They also get the new block grants, so it puts even more money into Alaska and Hawaii than they received under ACA.

Murkowski voted to repeal ACA in the past:
http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/262071-senate-approves-bill-repealing-much-of-obamacare

Why not now, as long as it doesn't hurt her voters?

She had the political cover of the Obama veto in 2015. Better to play nice with your party when you know it's never going to be a law anyway, or so the thinking goes.

She's on record saying that whatever plan they're voting on needs to work for the whole country or she won't support it. Alaska is still in trouble if the system collapses. Whether or not she sticks to it remains to be seen, but I would be surprised if she supported Graham-Cassidy.
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mm1970

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Re: What comes after the ACA?
« Reply #3497 on: September 22, 2017, 09:54:05 AM »
I'm with Sol.  I'm fed up with the ignorance of the average red state voter.   They never research anything, they never study cost increase trends that started decades before O-Care.  They refuse to accept that single payer would be more cost-effective vs for profit insurance.  Screw them!  Pass the shit and let them suffer.  I'm allocating between 500k and 1M to my FIRE kitty just for future health care costs.  These knuckle dragging idiots haven't got two nickels to rub together and they support tax cuts for the 1%.

I'd agree with this if so many of those who'll suffer weren't children. No fault of their own.

Right? I let myself get dragged into an online argument about DACA in our local paper. 

Kick out these criminals!!  They don't belong here!!

You mean the kids who were brought here when they were 1 year old babies.  Grew up here, only speak English, and actually thought they were citizens until they went to apply to college and their parents fessed up?  Those people?

Um, right.  Criminals.  Sure man, you want the stem the tide, fine.  I'm not a fan of punishing children though.

Exflyboy

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Re: What comes after the ACA?
« Reply #3498 on: September 22, 2017, 11:14:55 AM »
Kick these criminals out?.. You mean the GOP right?

jim555

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Re: What comes after the ACA?
« Reply #3499 on: September 22, 2017, 11:17:18 AM »
So we can move to Alaska / Hawaii if this goes through?  Sounds like a plan.