Poll

What's your income level and savings rate?

$0-$50k - 0%-20%
$0-$50k - 20%-50%
$0-$50k - 50%+
$50-$75k - 0%-20%
$50-$75k - 20%-50%
$50-$75k - 50%+
$75-$100k - 0%-20%
$75-$100k - 20%-50%
$75-$100k - 50%+
>$100k - 0%-20%
>$100k - 20%-50%
>$100k - 50%+

Author Topic: What's your income level and savings rate?  (Read 16486 times)

StarBright

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Re: What's your income level and savings rate?
« Reply #50 on: June 14, 2017, 07:21:46 AM »
Well I created this poll and am one of the 100+ 50%+ people so I'm replying at least lol. I think a lot of us don't have much to add. Personally since I don't have kids yet I feel as though it would be hard for me to not save that much. I don't even necessarily feel like a super frugal b.a. because my life is easy and full of luxury. One of the reasons I created this poll because I want to be able to give advice to people in lower salary ranges on my podcast without coming across as super out-of-touch - figured absorbing other peoples stories is one strong way I can try to do that.

If DH and I were living as individuals we'd both be 50k-75k and saving between 20%-50%. Together we are 100+ but still saving between 20% and 50% - the combined power of having someone to split expenses with is effectively wiped out by two kids in full time childcare.

Last year we came in at the high end of the range for savings though (somewhere in the 40% range)  - I'm happy to PM you the budget/spending if you want.

prognastat

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Re: What's your income level and savings rate?
« Reply #51 on: June 14, 2017, 07:27:34 AM »
We are DINKs and both work so those help a lot and though we don't live in a LCOL area, it's also not HCOL nationally speaking. We make >120k per year and manage to save about 60% of it. This savings rate is more recent though as I found MMM about three years ago and at the time we had a much lower income and probably had a savings rate closer to 20%, my wife wasn't on board right away and so I managed to maybe get the savings rate up to 30-40%. This year I managed to get my wife more on board though which has managed to boost it to the 60% we are currently sitting at.

wenchsenior

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Re: What's your income level and savings rate?
« Reply #52 on: June 14, 2017, 07:30:33 AM »
Funny how greater than 30% of the poll is 100K or more with greater than 50% savings yet not one comment from this group. Scarcely anything from anyone cresting 100K at all which is greater than 50% of all participants. Interesting.

I'm one of them...we gross about 130K, and save about 52% of take home.

No need to comment, I thought...because it doesn't take much in the way of skills to save this much once you go over 100K gross.  Also, we are DINK (though partially supporting some other family, so maybe that's the equivalent cost of 1 kid, I dunno).  Now, those of you who are saving large percentages who make less (sometimes a lot less)? THAT is really impressive.

YoungGranny

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Re: What's your income level and savings rate?
« Reply #53 on: June 14, 2017, 07:41:27 AM »
Well I created this poll and am one of the 100+ 50%+ people so I'm replying at least lol. I think a lot of us don't have much to add. Personally since I don't have kids yet I feel as though it would be hard for me to not save that much. I don't even necessarily feel like a super frugal b.a. because my life is easy and full of luxury. One of the reasons I created this poll because I want to be able to give advice to people in lower salary ranges on my podcast without coming across as super out-of-touch - figured absorbing other peoples stories is one strong way I can try to do that.

If DH and I were living as individuals we'd both be 50k-75k and saving between 20%-50%. Together we are 100+ but still saving between 20% and 50% - the combined power of having someone to split expenses with is effectively wiped out by two kids in full time childcare.

Last year we came in at the high end of the range for savings though (somewhere in the 40% range)  - I'm happy to PM you the budget/spending if you want.

Please do! I'd love comparing my expenses against someone with a kid. Thanks!

caracarn

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Re: What's your income level and savings rate?
« Reply #54 on: June 14, 2017, 07:41:36 AM »
Funny how greater than 30% of the poll is 100K or more with greater than 50% savings yet not one comment from this group. Scarcely anything from anyone cresting 100K at all which is greater than 50% of all participants. Interesting.
I'd love to be in the 50% savings rate, but kids make that really, really hard.  That's the one "message" of MMM that never resonated with me, is that he makes it seem like it is so simple to save over half your income with children because he did it with one child who seems to not have gotten pulled into organized activities etc.  If we had really embraced the frugal lifestyle earlier before we had all the kids, maybe our savings rate would be higher, but I did not post a comment because frankly I feel like a big failure in this realm.  We make close to $200K but are lucky if we achieve anything over a 23% savings rate.  Saving for college, vacations and other things just make it untenable to reach the higher savings rates.  The blog posts do not address this and therefore when I speak to friends (who are also mainly married with multiple kids) the lifestyle seems a dream because no one is going to uproot their family to move within walking distance to work every time they change a job because the kids need continuity in school for example and leaving a terrific school district to move to an inner city one to be able to bike to work seems like a pretty crappy tradeoff to make to risk your kids entire future earning potential on a selfish desire to want to save an extra 10%.

caracarn

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Re: What's your income level and savings rate?
« Reply #55 on: June 14, 2017, 07:44:23 AM »
the most baffling thing to me is the number of people pulling over 100k who arent saving 50% or more of their income. I'd expect that to be a much lower number there.

I had that reaction also, but then I thought very probably those people are latecomers to MMM who are paying down debt.
Nope.  See my post above.  No debt other than the mortgage.  Having six kids makes it hard to save 50% of your income.

Bird In Hand

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Re: What's your income level and savings rate?
« Reply #56 on: June 14, 2017, 10:12:02 AM »
I find computing "savings rate" to be ambiguous and tedious.  I know that we currently save about $72,000/year, but that includes employer match for retirement accounts and mortgage principal payments.  I know many would bristle at including those as part of "savings."  #dontcare -- it all adds up to a greater nest-egg and lower expenses in retirement, and I'm just trying to make those two meet at a SWR we're comfortable with.

YoungGranny

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Re: What's your income level and savings rate?
« Reply #57 on: June 14, 2017, 10:39:40 AM »
I find computing "savings rate" to be ambiguous and tedious.  I know that we currently save about $72,000/year, but that includes employer match for retirement accounts and mortgage principal payments.  I know many would bristle at including those as part of "savings."  #dontcare -- it all adds up to a greater nest-egg and lower expenses in retirement, and I'm just trying to make those two meet at a SWR we're comfortable with.

I agree - I just figured out how to best calculate a savings rate that works for me and stick to the same measure to track progress year-over-year. For the sake of the poll I figured it didn't matter if people were calculating it absolutely perfectly since in many cases it won't affect the result too drastically.

boarder42

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Re: What's your income level and savings rate?
« Reply #58 on: June 14, 2017, 10:40:27 AM »
Funny how greater than 30% of the poll is 100K or more with greater than 50% savings yet not one comment from this group. Scarcely anything from anyone cresting 100K at all which is greater than 50% of all participants. Interesting.
I'd love to be in the 50% savings rate, but kids make that really, really hard.  That's the one "message" of MMM that never resonated with me, is that he makes it seem like it is so simple to save over half your income with children because he did it with one child who seems to not have gotten pulled into organized activities etc.  If we had really embraced the frugal lifestyle earlier before we had all the kids, maybe our savings rate would be higher, but I did not post a comment because frankly I feel like a big failure in this realm.  We make close to $200K but are lucky if we achieve anything over a 23% savings rate.  Saving for college, vacations and other things just make it untenable to reach the higher savings rates.  The blog posts do not address this and therefore when I speak to friends (who are also mainly married with multiple kids) the lifestyle seems a dream because no one is going to uproot their family to move within walking distance to work every time they change a job because the kids need continuity in school for example and leaving a terrific school district to move to an inner city one to be able to bike to work seems like a pretty crappy tradeoff to make to risk your kids entire future earning potential on a selfish desire to want to save an extra 10%.

if you're pulling 200k and only saving 46k you have alot more holes that could be plugged than moving closer to work.  obvisously you're making active choices not to b/c you've deamed that important to you.  but i'd be willing to wager you're not close to optimizing the choices you're making if youre saving that little on such a large salary.
PM me about how to save 6% on your annual grocery Bill!

There is a 35k starwood bonus right now as well. PM me for the info.

YoungGranny

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Re: What's your income level and savings rate?
« Reply #59 on: June 14, 2017, 10:45:45 AM »
Funny how greater than 30% of the poll is 100K or more with greater than 50% savings yet not one comment from this group. Scarcely anything from anyone cresting 100K at all which is greater than 50% of all participants. Interesting.
I'd love to be in the 50% savings rate, but kids make that really, really hard.  That's the one "message" of MMM that never resonated with me, is that he makes it seem like it is so simple to save over half your income with children because he did it with one child who seems to not have gotten pulled into organized activities etc.  If we had really embraced the frugal lifestyle earlier before we had all the kids, maybe our savings rate would be higher, but I did not post a comment because frankly I feel like a big failure in this realm.  We make close to $200K but are lucky if we achieve anything over a 23% savings rate.  Saving for college, vacations and other things just make it untenable to reach the higher savings rates.  The blog posts do not address this and therefore when I speak to friends (who are also mainly married with multiple kids) the lifestyle seems a dream because no one is going to uproot their family to move within walking distance to work every time they change a job because the kids need continuity in school for example and leaving a terrific school district to move to an inner city one to be able to bike to work seems like a pretty crappy tradeoff to make to risk your kids entire future earning potential on a selfish desire to want to save an extra 10%.

I understand this. I think it's hard to write about experiences that are not your own so MMM can only reflect on his life. I teach financial literacy to inner city high schoolers who are nearing graduation and for them I recommend a savings rate of 10% so you're still beating the 'average advice' rate. Most Americans do not have even $500 saved up in case of an emergency so really you're not doing bad at all. I think it's hard on this forum because we fall into the comparison trap and there's always someone doing things better. Keep in mind you're doing the best you can and still much better than average. I've talked to many people who have this 'all-or-nothing' mindset when it comes to savings and I like to remind them that any is better than nothing! So when I start working with people who save 0% getting them to 10% is a huge accomplishment even if it may not lead to super early FIRE that we all like to talk about on here.

I guess my point is: Have your own goals and enjoy the life you've created. Personally I will never be as frugal as MMM because i really do love to travel but at the same time I don't complain about working longer because I know it's a choice I'm making. So enjoy giving your kids the life you want them to have, you're doing great anyway.

TornWonder

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Re: What's your income level and savings rate?
« Reply #60 on: June 14, 2017, 10:54:18 AM »
Funny how greater than 30% of the poll is 100K or more with greater than 50% savings yet not one comment from this group. Scarcely anything from anyone cresting 100K at all which is greater than 50% of all participants. Interesting.

I'm one of them...we gross about 130K, and save about 52% of take home.

No need to comment, I thought...because it doesn't take much in the way of skills to save this much once you go over 100K gross.  Also, we are DINK (though partially supporting some other family, so maybe that's the equivalent cost of 1 kid, I dunno).  Now, those of you who are saving large percentages who make less (sometimes a lot less)? THAT is really impressive.

Yeah, I'm a single guy that makes a good salary, my savings rate is >60%, but it's not really something to brag about and I don't really think talking about my situation would be that helpful to anybody on here.  People that earn the amount I spend and still save half are the true heroes on here.

caracarn

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Re: What's your income level and savings rate?
« Reply #61 on: June 14, 2017, 11:48:38 AM »
Funny how greater than 30% of the poll is 100K or more with greater than 50% savings yet not one comment from this group. Scarcely anything from anyone cresting 100K at all which is greater than 50% of all participants. Interesting.
I'd love to be in the 50% savings rate, but kids make that really, really hard.  That's the one "message" of MMM that never resonated with me, is that he makes it seem like it is so simple to save over half your income with children because he did it with one child who seems to not have gotten pulled into organized activities etc.  If we had really embraced the frugal lifestyle earlier before we had all the kids, maybe our savings rate would be higher, but I did not post a comment because frankly I feel like a big failure in this realm.  We make close to $200K but are lucky if we achieve anything over a 23% savings rate.  Saving for college, vacations and other things just make it untenable to reach the higher savings rates.  The blog posts do not address this and therefore when I speak to friends (who are also mainly married with multiple kids) the lifestyle seems a dream because no one is going to uproot their family to move within walking distance to work every time they change a job because the kids need continuity in school for example and leaving a terrific school district to move to an inner city one to be able to bike to work seems like a pretty crappy tradeoff to make to risk your kids entire future earning potential on a selfish desire to want to save an extra 10%.

if you're pulling 200k and only saving 46k you have alot more holes that could be plugged than moving closer to work.  obvisously you're making active choices not to b/c you've deamed that important to you.  but i'd be willing to wager you're not close to optimizing the choices you're making if youre saving that little on such a large salary.
Point being I don't consider them "holes" but MMM process would.  We are saving about $50K/year for the college funds for our six kids.  In this process not part of the saving rate, because it does not get me to FIRE, but now something I'd consider not optimized.  Your response though is my point.  I've got a mortgage for a house to fit 8 people in and not have us sharing 2 bedrooms to "optimize".  We needed a car to move 8 people around as I did not think a Honda Fit with a few skateboards attached would be looked at too kindly by my local law enforcement or child services as I asked 4-5 of the kids to sit on the skateboards and hold on as we drive the family around so that I can optimize the savings rate.  Car is paid off, but it has operating costs that are not "optimized" because it burns more gas than a compact car.  I also drive kids to activities they are part of rather than ask them to bike everywhere.  For the older kids we have a car for them to use to get to work as biking back from McDonald's for an hour at 2 AM when they close the store versus getting home in 10 minutes is probably again not going to earn me any points from child services.  My wife and I both work, so no one there to get the kids to work using one of our cars.  I have to insure said cars.  I've gotten feedback on our grocery bill for the 8 people being between $600-$800/month as being pretty good in another thread here.  Is there some waste, but the reaction of "not close to optimizing" is exactly my point of why for anything other than a small family or people with no kids, the MMM bar is so high as to make it seem improbable at all to most people.  In my circle at least, when I present the topic and they go check out the website it's never covered in depth at this level.

ETA: Also, that $200K is our combined salaries.  Taxes come out of that number and dwindle it down just a tad.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2017, 11:51:03 AM by caracarn »

Jaguar Paw

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Re: What's your income level and savings rate?
« Reply #62 on: June 14, 2017, 12:18:21 PM »
Household we make around 170k and save around 80k, including automatic 10% to pension. We both have 18 years until we plan on re (at 50) and can start drawing our pensions. Will be fi way before that but we are currently not in a rush.

Optimiser

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Re: What's your income level and savings rate?
« Reply #63 on: June 14, 2017, 12:22:39 PM »
I usually calculate my savings rate based on take home pay and I'm looking for gross income.

73,000 Gross and I saved 27% of my take home pay.

2 adults and 2 kids

Full disclosure: I count debt principal payments in my savings rate, I know some consider this to be incorrect.

TPGW

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Re: What's your income level and savings rate?
« Reply #64 on: June 14, 2017, 12:36:02 PM »
Quote
We are saving about $50K/year for the college funds for our six kids. 

I get saving heavily for college education--I do it too.  But this isn't about the MMM philosophy not working for you, it's about you not fully embracing that philosophy.  MMM would never endorse saving almost 10k per kid, and few around here would do that.   

There's nothing wrong with not agreeing with every tenet on this website.  I save a lot for college, spend more than would be advised (around here) on food, and put a lot of money into our house.  As a result, I'm around 35-40% savings rate on around 150k earnings.  But again, this isn't about whether the principles work or are unfair; it's about me picking and choosing what works for my own happiness.     

MMM has also written an article about why he only had one kid, and how having more children is likely to delay FIRE. 
« Last Edit: June 14, 2017, 12:47:36 PM by TPGW »

Strick

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Re: What's your income level and savings rate?
« Reply #65 on: June 14, 2017, 12:52:25 PM »
Due to owning a business with extreme fluctuations and spouse being SAHM, In the last 10 years I've seen income anywhere from $50k to $500k. 

We've always spent pretty much whatever we "wanted", which was of course seemed bad when income was low and good when high.  Over the last 15 years as family grew and lifestyle inflated spending went from about $45k to about $80k.  Given the extreme changing income I never really tracked savings rate...just kept up with expenses as ratio of invested assets.

rockstache

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Re: What's your income level and savings rate?
« Reply #66 on: June 14, 2017, 01:41:38 PM »
For the older kids we have a car for them to use to get to work as biking back from McDonald's for an hour at 2 AM when they close the store versus getting home in 10 minutes is probably again not going to earn me any points from child services. 

Where do you live that kids (ages 13-17?) can work until 2 AM?

caracarn

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Re: What's your income level and savings rate?
« Reply #67 on: June 14, 2017, 01:45:33 PM »
For the older kids we have a car for them to use to get to work as biking back from McDonald's for an hour at 2 AM when they close the store versus getting home in 10 minutes is probably again not going to earn me any points from child services. 

Where do you live that kids (ages 13-17?) can work until 2 AM?
Ohio.  They need a form filled out from employer each week that shows they are driving back from work if it is after midnight (until 1 year after license obtained) or 1 AM (until 18).

rockstache

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Re: What's your income level and savings rate?
« Reply #68 on: June 14, 2017, 01:49:05 PM »
Wow that's awful. In my area kids under 16 have to be out of work by 9pm and kids under 18 have to be out by 11pm. It's so strict that the managers used to literally lock the doors behind us so they didn't get caught with us on the premises.

boarder42

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Re: What's your income level and savings rate?
« Reply #69 on: June 14, 2017, 01:51:49 PM »
Quote
We are saving about $50K/year for the college funds for our six kids. 

I get saving heavily for college education--I do it too.  But this isn't about the MMM philosophy not working for you, it's about you not fully embracing that philosophy.  MMM would never endorse saving almost 10k per kid, and few around here would do that.   

There's nothing wrong with not agreeing with every tenet on this website.  I save a lot for college, spend more than would be advised (around here) on food, and put a lot of money into our house.  As a result, I'm around 35-40% savings rate on around 150k earnings.  But again, this isn't about whether the principles work or are unfair; it's about me picking and choosing what works for my own happiness.     

MMM has also written an article about why he only had one kid, and how having more children is likely to delay FIRE.

posts like these make me want to start blogs about optimizing.  if i were to just list out my lifestyle everyone here would say No F'n way you're saving 67% of around 170k gross on that but yes ... yes we are. 
PM me about how to save 6% on your annual grocery Bill!

There is a 35k starwood bonus right now as well. PM me for the info.

Lan Mandragoran

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Re: What's your income level and savings rate?
« Reply #70 on: June 14, 2017, 01:55:40 PM »
Wait ... caracarn another wheel of timer! Anyway...

Lot's in the high brackets but not as high of a % as I would have guessed given the relatively low polling #'s.

Wife and Kid.

Take home = ~ 6100
Double 15 year mortgages = 1950(Id love to be in 30 years but cant) (so equity gained on this averages out to 1500 a month)
Invest = 1800-2000(including some work, 1400 straight of our budget)
Other expenses budget = 2400~ (id do lower but wife isnt quite as mustachian :) )


1800 to 2000+ 1500 = 3300 to 3500 a month put towards networth.

Not sure exactly what people would say my savings rate is, id put it at 40-55%. We were struggling to get above 25%(while actively trying mind you) when I started reading MMM ~6 months ago. So im thankful for that :).

Oh and 8-9k per year per kid for college seems kinda high to me personally.... Was only about 5-6k*4 years for me about 5 years ago.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2017, 02:06:09 PM by Lan Mandragoran »
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SnidelyWhiplashStache

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Re: What's your income level and savings rate?
« Reply #71 on: June 14, 2017, 02:07:59 PM »
Funny how greater than 30% of the poll is 100K or more with greater than 50% savings yet not one comment from this group. Scarcely anything from anyone cresting 100K at all which is greater than 50% of all participants. Interesting.
I'd love to be in the 50% savings rate, but kids make that really, really hard.  That's the one "message" of MMM that never resonated with me, is that he makes it seem like it is so simple to save over half your income with children because he did it with one child who seems to not have gotten pulled into organized activities etc.  If we had really embraced the frugal lifestyle earlier before we had all the kids, maybe our savings rate would be higher, but I did not post a comment because frankly I feel like a big failure in this realm.  We make close to $200K but are lucky if we achieve anything over a 23% savings rate.  Saving for college, vacations and other things just make it untenable to reach the higher savings rates.  The blog posts do not address this and therefore when I speak to friends (who are also mainly married with multiple kids) the lifestyle seems a dream because no one is going to uproot their family to move within walking distance to work every time they change a job because the kids need continuity in school for example and leaving a terrific school district to move to an inner city one to be able to bike to work seems like a pretty crappy tradeoff to make to risk your kids entire future earning potential on a selfish desire to want to save an extra 10%.

if you're pulling 200k and only saving 46k you have alot more holes that could be plugged than moving closer to work.  obvisously you're making active choices not to b/c you've deamed that important to you.  but i'd be willing to wager you're not close to optimizing the choices you're making if youre saving that little on such a large salary.
Point being I don't consider them "holes" but MMM process would.  We are saving about $50K/year for the college funds for our six kids.  In this process not part of the saving rate, because it does not get me to FIRE, but now something I'd consider not optimized.  Your response though is my point.  I've got a mortgage for a house to fit 8 people in and not have us sharing 2 bedrooms to "optimize".  We needed a car to move 8 people around as I did not think a Honda Fit with a few skateboards attached would be looked at too kindly by my local law enforcement or child services as I asked 4-5 of the kids to sit on the skateboards and hold on as we drive the family around so that I can optimize the savings rate.  Car is paid off, but it has operating costs that are not "optimized" because it burns more gas than a compact car.  I also drive kids to activities they are part of rather than ask them to bike everywhere.  For the older kids we have a car for them to use to get to work as biking back from McDonald's for an hour at 2 AM when they close the store versus getting home in 10 minutes is probably again not going to earn me any points from child services.  My wife and I both work, so no one there to get the kids to work using one of our cars.  I have to insure said cars.  I've gotten feedback on our grocery bill for the 8 people being between $600-$800/month as being pretty good in another thread here.  Is there some waste, but the reaction of "not close to optimizing" is exactly my point of why for anything other than a small family or people with no kids, the MMM bar is so high as to make it seem improbable at all to most people.  In my circle at least, when I present the topic and they go check out the website it's never covered in depth at this level.

ETA: Also, that $200K is our combined salaries.  Taxes come out of that number and dwindle it down just a tad.

Exactly.  Optimizing choices is just that.  CHOICES.  We all make different choices based on where we are in life.  Income, location, kids, etc.  I empathize with you caracarn.  My wife and I make combined $200+ and save about $50k/year.  We have lived a lifestyle that has suited us.  It hasn't been exactly Mustachian but we have done well for ourselves and yet provided quite well for our three kids (help get three through college with no debt).  At 55 I have only recently decided that I am ready to retire.  I didn't FIRE earlier due to several reasons, the most overriding being I loved my job.  Now, not so much so I am preparing to FIRE within the year. 

Keep on keeping on and you will get there.  Cheers.

boarder42

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Re: What's your income level and savings rate?
« Reply #72 on: June 14, 2017, 03:39:50 PM »
Funny how greater than 30% of the poll is 100K or more with greater than 50% savings yet not one comment from this group. Scarcely anything from anyone cresting 100K at all which is greater than 50% of all participants. Interesting.
I'd love to be in the 50% savings rate, but kids make that really, really hard.  That's the one "message" of MMM that never resonated with me, is that he makes it seem like it is so simple to save over half your income with children because he did it with one child who seems to not have gotten pulled into organized activities etc.  If we had really embraced the frugal lifestyle earlier before we had all the kids, maybe our savings rate would be higher, but I did not post a comment because frankly I feel like a big failure in this realm.  We make close to $200K but are lucky if we achieve anything over a 23% savings rate.  Saving for college, vacations and other things just make it untenable to reach the higher savings rates.  The blog posts do not address this and therefore when I speak to friends (who are also mainly married with multiple kids) the lifestyle seems a dream because no one is going to uproot their family to move within walking distance to work every time they change a job because the kids need continuity in school for example and leaving a terrific school district to move to an inner city one to be able to bike to work seems like a pretty crappy tradeoff to make to risk your kids entire future earning potential on a selfish desire to want to save an extra 10%.

if you're pulling 200k and only saving 46k you have alot more holes that could be plugged than moving closer to work.  obvisously you're making active choices not to b/c you've deamed that important to you.  but i'd be willing to wager you're not close to optimizing the choices you're making if youre saving that little on such a large salary.
Point being I don't consider them "holes" but MMM process would.  We are saving about $50K/year for the college funds for our six kids.  In this process not part of the saving rate, because it does not get me to FIRE, but now something I'd consider not optimized.  Your response though is my point.  I've got a mortgage for a house to fit 8 people in and not have us sharing 2 bedrooms to "optimize".  We needed a car to move 8 people around as I did not think a Honda Fit with a few skateboards attached would be looked at too kindly by my local law enforcement or child services as I asked 4-5 of the kids to sit on the skateboards and hold on as we drive the family around so that I can optimize the savings rate.  Car is paid off, but it has operating costs that are not "optimized" because it burns more gas than a compact car.  I also drive kids to activities they are part of rather than ask them to bike everywhere.  For the older kids we have a car for them to use to get to work as biking back from McDonald's for an hour at 2 AM when they close the store versus getting home in 10 minutes is probably again not going to earn me any points from child services.  My wife and I both work, so no one there to get the kids to work using one of our cars.  I have to insure said cars.  I've gotten feedback on our grocery bill for the 8 people being between $600-$800/month as being pretty good in another thread here.  Is there some waste, but the reaction of "not close to optimizing" is exactly my point of why for anything other than a small family or people with no kids, the MMM bar is so high as to make it seem improbable at all to most people.  In my circle at least, when I present the topic and they go check out the website it's never covered in depth at this level.

ETA: Also, that $200K is our combined salaries.  Taxes come out of that number and dwindle it down just a tad.

Exactly.  Optimizing choices is just that.  CHOICES.  We all make different choices based on where we are in life.  Income, location, kids, etc.  I empathize with you caracarn.  My wife and I make combined $200+ and save about $50k/year.  We have lived a lifestyle that has suited us.  It hasn't been exactly Mustachian but we have done well for ourselves and yet provided quite well for our three kids (help get three through college with no debt).  At 55 I have only recently decided that I am ready to retire.  I didn't FIRE earlier due to several reasons, the most overriding being I loved my job.  Now, not so much so I am preparing to FIRE within the year. 

Keep on keeping on and you will get there.  Cheers.

this isnt a forum where we actively promote saving 25% of your income on a 200k salary.  i'm sure there is somewhere for that... but i dont consider this to be valuable advice or commeraderie around this place.
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monstermonster

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Re: What's your income level and savings rate?
« Reply #73 on: June 14, 2017, 04:07:09 PM »
For the older kids we have a car for them to use to get to work as biking back from McDonald's for an hour at 2 AM when they close the store versus getting home in 10 minutes is probably again not going to earn me any points from child services. 

Where do you live that kids (ages 13-17?) can work until 2 AM?
Ohio.  They need a form filled out from employer each week that shows they are driving back from work if it is after midnight (until 1 year after license obtained) or 1 AM (until 18).
Wow, it must've changed a lot. When I worked in OH as a minor (2000-2005) and supervised minors (2005-06), minors were not allowed to 1) use scissors or box cutters on the job or 2) work later than 10PM.

It was extremely strict, we got fined $10K for every violation of a minor working after 10PM (or 9PM when under 16) - large grocery store so our fines were high. Also very strict break rules and alcohol handling rules, thanks to a history of minor labor abuse in Ohio's agricultural and factory history. I always thought it was a bit too restrictive.
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Classical_Liberal

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Re: What's your income level and savings rate?
« Reply #74 on: June 14, 2017, 04:20:45 PM »
This poll doesn't surprise me.  The forum seems heavily weighted in the high earner/average spending as opposed to average earner/low spending.  I think we would do well to understand those demographics.

I think its important to remember median HH income in the US in only about 55K for 2.5 people, even without considering taxes 22K spending per person.  Assume a relatively low tax burden of 10% and you get below 20K per person with a 0 savings rate.  I think those living on less than this in the forum is limited.

this isnt a forum where we actively promote saving 25% of your income on a 200k salary.  i'm sure there is somewhere for that... but i dont consider this to be valuable advice or commeraderie around this place.
It's shifting more and more this way since I've been reading over the past two-three years. 

Personally, I voted 75-100 with greater than 50%, but that's post tax and I'm single w/o dependents.  Even at a 70+% post tax savings rate I'm not too impressed with myself.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2017, 04:59:46 PM by Classical_Liberal »

Classical_Liberal

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Re: What's your income level and savings rate?
« Reply #75 on: June 14, 2017, 04:34:48 PM »
Here is a budget calculator for a "modest lifestyle" budget.  You can pick geographic area and family size. I used this as a tool for myself by subtracting the tax (as this will vary with income) and using the remaining amounts as a baseline "high" spending for myself no matter where I move for my employment.

I think the categories are off, but the total spending minus taxes is a good gauge regarding how Mustachian spending should look.  If I'm below by more than 10% I'm happy, if above I suck. Just one guys opinion.

TwoWorlds

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Re: What's your income level and savings rate?
« Reply #76 on: June 14, 2017, 04:52:10 PM »
We gross 279k savings rate  35%  Family of four with one in college and one in grade school.  Working on getting that up to 40% this year.

monstermonster

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Re: What's your income level and savings rate?
« Reply #77 on: June 14, 2017, 05:04:35 PM »
Here is a budget calculator for a "modest lifestyle" budget.  You can pick geographic area and family size. I used this as a tool for myself by subtracting the tax (as this will vary with income) and using the remaining amounts as a baseline "high" spending for myself no matter where I move for my employment.
Thank you for sharing that survey! It's very interesting. It looks like they're using pretty old data for housing in PDX, since it reports that single person family can obtain a studio apartment in the Portland metro area for $666 a month including utilities.

It's hard to even find a multiple-roommate situation for that amount, let alone a studio apartment (the median here is $1350 a month now for a studio, rent increasing 15% per year on average, no caps.)


But it also says $450 for transportation (which I spend $15 a month on average) and $270 for groceries (I average $155), so it comes out in the wash.

$30K is definitely more than I'm on track to make this year, and that's the number it says for a modest lifestyle, so that seems fair.
My lifestyle is slightly more modest than their "modest" lifestyle, but that's partially necessitated by lower income and the fact that I've only made more than $30K for 2.5 years of my 12-year career, so I'm not generally accustomed to that lifestyle.
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Fire2025

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Re: What's your income level and savings rate?
« Reply #78 on: June 14, 2017, 06:22:59 PM »
Here is a budget calculator for a "modest lifestyle" budget.  You can pick geographic area and family size.

I think the categories are off, but the total spending minus taxes is a good gauge regarding how Mustachian spending should look.  If I'm below by more than 10% I'm happy, if above I suck. Just one guys opinion.

Thanks, this is interesting.  It says $47,000 for the Los Angeles area.  I'm only high on the housing, I agree, the housing is off.  I'm making it work on less than $30,000 w/a mortgage, WooHoo!!!!

StarBright

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Re: What's your income level and savings rate?
« Reply #79 on: June 14, 2017, 06:41:59 PM »

this isnt a forum where we actively promote saving 25% of your income on a 200k salary.  i'm sure there is somewhere for that... but i dont consider this to be valuable advice or commeraderie around this place.

FWIW - I think a lot of us are on this forum specifically because there aren't many other forums for people who are basically interested in a non-consumer lifestyle.

I'm might be interested in early retirement (definitely interested in scaling back my job eventually), my DH is definitely is not interested in RE - but I love reading about people's DIY hacks, frugal meal plans, and strategies for saving just a bit more. As a parent I also appreciate the community of parents here who all seem to be interested in raising kids in a similar way to me.

Maybe we need a SWAMI category?
« Last Edit: June 15, 2017, 08:00:13 AM by StarBright »

Lmoot

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Re: What's your income level and savings rate?
« Reply #80 on: June 14, 2017, 06:44:49 PM »
Income about 50-60k savings rate between 60-70%

Monthly expenses:

$425 house payment minus taxes
$400 cc min on $35k @ 0% interest
$250 groceries
$200 (my portion of utilities/internet)
$200 misc/entertainment (high end)
$75 car insurance
$50 water/ trash for rental property
$40 phone
$30 gas (I work from home)

Yearly expenses:
$500 property tax

Total/month = about $1670
« Last Edit: June 14, 2017, 06:50:25 PM by Lmoot »

YoungGranny

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Re: What's your income level and savings rate?
« Reply #81 on: June 14, 2017, 07:57:17 PM »
I know this forum is known for face punches and promoting high savings rates but I also think if someone is making choices and isn't complaining about working longer because of them then they're still fitting in here. To me the mustachian way is about owning the financial decisions you make and achieving your goals. Which for many of us is early retirement but even that is defined differently​ for  different people. Now if someone was saving 25% but complaining that they couldn't possibly cut back more and whining that they couldn't retire early I think face punches would be in order. But even MMM himself admits he inflates his spending on things like organic food, travel, etc. I think the bigger goal is to stop complaining and take ownership of your finances. Whether that means saving 90% or 10% makes no difference if you're happy and aware of the opportunity costs associated with your decisions.

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Re: What's your income level and savings rate?
« Reply #82 on: June 14, 2017, 08:16:15 PM »
I make about 60k gross a year.  Net comes out to around 1690 per 2 weeks.  After deducting insurance, etc. I end up with about 1640.  My bi-weekly savings are approximately as follows:
Savings (usually to student loan): 400
Student loan: 167
401k: 115
Roth: 150

Puts me at around 51% savings.  Including mortgage payment principal of around 135/2wks it goes up to around 59%.
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Classical_Liberal

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Re: What's your income level and savings rate?
« Reply #83 on: June 15, 2017, 12:54:21 AM »
Thank you for sharing that survey! It's very interesting. It looks like they're using pretty old data for housing in PDX, since it reports that single person family can obtain a studio apartment in the Portland metro area for $666 a month including utilities.

It's hard to even find a multiple-roommate situation for that amount, let alone a studio apartment (the median here is $1350 a month now for a studio, rent increasing 15% per year on average, no caps.)

Thanks, this is interesting.  It says $47,000 for the Los Angeles area.  I'm only high on the housing, I agree, the housing is off.  I'm making it work on less than $30,000 w/a mortgage, WooHoo!!!!

The housing category has  been low in every area I've used it for, so you are both right on!  In other categories it seems to be high, so the total seems to be about right for a "no frills" type of standard inefficient spending.  I would think the average Mustachian should be able to live pretty well on the estimated amounts. I know I do & its why I used it as a high end range.

dreams_and_discoveries

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Re: What's your income level and savings rate?
« Reply #84 on: June 15, 2017, 01:10:18 AM »
It's a good poll, and as others have said, it's skewing in the way we'd expect; toward the high earning and high savings rates.

ToughMother

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Re: What's your income level and savings rate?
« Reply #85 on: June 15, 2017, 04:22:03 AM »
$110K/65.7% savings rate this year

caveat 1: interior remodeling work and wedding this year, so lower than usual rate

caveat 2: just got major promotion and raise on May 1.  In past, $$ significantly lower and savings rate a bit lower too
« Last Edit: June 15, 2017, 04:26:51 AM by ToughMother »
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Lmoot

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Re: What's your income level and savings rate?
« Reply #86 on: June 15, 2017, 05:25:32 AM »
$110K/65.7% savings rate this year

caveat 1: interior remodeling work and wedding this year, so lower than usual rate

caveat 2: just got major promotion and raise on May 1.  In past, $$ significantly lower and savings rate a bit lower too

Did you save for the wedding/remodel? If so, then I would personally consider that as part of the savings rate. I don't know if, or how, the intention of the poll is to account for what you spend those savings on.

eyePod

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Re: What's your income level and savings rate?
« Reply #87 on: June 15, 2017, 05:36:11 AM »
Our savings rate has definitely gone down. 2 kids in daycare. Will have a 3rd. On top of that, we were saving for a down payment, pulled back on the move, and now we're saving for potential unpaid leave with #3.

In the end though, we've upped our retirement contributions and are almost maxing out, which is a big increase as well. I want to be 'saving' more, but we also tend to have a lot of emergency funds (real emergency fund with 3 months of minimum payments, then there's the hot water heater fund, the hvac fund, the furnace fund, the car repair fund).

And anyone arguing about pre-post tax is getting too far into the weeds. This isn't scientific here, it's the spirit. 10% vs. 11% isn't the point. It's 10% vs. 20% vs. 50%.
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Mmm_Donuts

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Re: What's your income level and savings rate?
« Reply #88 on: June 15, 2017, 05:51:31 AM »

this isnt a forum where we actively promote saving 25% of your income on a 200k salary.  i'm sure there is somewhere for that... but i dont consider this to be valuable advice or commeraderie around this place.

FWIW - I think a lot of us are on this forum specifically because there aren't many other forums for people who are basically interested in a non-consumer lifestyle.

I'm might be interested in early retirement (definitely interested in scaling back my job eventually), my DH definitely is not interested in RE - but I love reading about people's DIY hacks, frugal meal plans, and strategies for saving just a bit more. As a parent I also appreciate the community of parents here who all seem to be interested in raising kids in a similar way to me.

Maybe we need a SWAMI category?

+ 1

Also I find it pretty rude for one member to tell another member who's doing their best that their comments / presence aren't valued here. I've seen comments like border 42's above before and it makes the forum seem like a cult. If the mods wanted a cult they should publish quantifiable membership requirements like "thou shalt save 70% of net income or over to join these sacred halls or be forever banished to live be in your own forumless squalor, mediocrity, and wastefulness, you shameless sinners!"

I've found great benefit from the forum and hopefully have offered the occasional useful comment but there's no way in hell im living off 30k a year like MMM. I live by the simple tenets of "don't buy stupid shit" and "spend less than you earn" and in my books I'm mustachian enough to enjoy and contribute to this forum.

SnidelyWhiplashStache

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Re: What's your income level and savings rate?
« Reply #89 on: June 15, 2017, 06:00:19 AM »
I know this forum is known for face punches and promoting high savings rates but I also think if someone is making choices and isn't complaining about working longer because of them then they're still fitting in here. To me the mustachian way is about owning the financial decisions you make and achieving your goals. Which for many of us is early retirement but even that is defined differently​ for  different people. Now if someone was saving 25% but complaining that they couldn't possibly cut back more and whining that they couldn't retire early I think face punches would be in order. But even MMM himself admits he inflates his spending on things like organic food, travel, etc. I think the bigger goal is to stop complaining and take ownership of your finances. Whether that means saving 90% or 10% makes no difference if you're happy and aware of the opportunity costs associated with your decisions.

Bingo.  This is what I was trying to say but you expressed it much more succinctly.

boarder42

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Re: What's your income level and savings rate?
« Reply #90 on: June 15, 2017, 07:18:42 AM »
I know this forum is known for face punches and promoting high savings rates but I also think if someone is making choices and isn't complaining about working longer because of them then they're still fitting in here. To me the mustachian way is about owning the financial decisions you make and achieving your goals. Which for many of us is early retirement but even that is defined differently​ for  different people. Now if someone was saving 25% but complaining that they couldn't possibly cut back more and whining that they couldn't retire early I think face punches would be in order. But even MMM himself admits he inflates his spending on things like organic food, travel, etc. I think the bigger goal is to stop complaining and take ownership of your finances. Whether that means saving 90% or 10% makes no difference if you're happy and aware of the opportunity costs associated with your decisions.

Bingo.  This is what I was trying to say but you expressed it much more succinctly.

does not mean we still shouldnt be face punching people for their choices or lack of willingness to optimize and try to push them in the right direction.  the posters posting about these low savings rates have low posting rates ... which can be inferred to mean new.(it may not be but likely is)  with 8 posts its highly unlikely you've done a case study.  Its human nature to seek out support for your decisions.  But the real hard truth is its HIGHLY ... very HIGHLY unlikely those making over 100k(and closer to 200k from those combatting this) truly are optimizing things when only saving 25% of income.  most in that realm that are big spenders still are finding this forum much later in life and have hard fast ideas about how this all works and are less open minded to change their life style.  "i'm 55 and i loved my job"  maybe b/c you didnt realize there were other options b/c FIRE forums didnt exist when you were 25.  it also takes a certain level of ego to climb to these higher salaries typically.  and no one likes to look back and say shit i could have been doing this a different way. 

IMO if you've got a low savings rate and havent opened up that budget to the community to pick a part and help you out you're missing the largest benefit here.

as stated above saving 10k a year for each of 6 kids schooling .... in a case study that would be picked apart instantly.  i mean holy cow if you're investing that correctly you're saying your kids are gonna get 363k for college each! in today dollars.  assuming you did this from birth to 18.  thats 100% unnecessary.  maybe you're just doing it for 5 years and then your 50-60k gets dumped into your savings rate.  all that would come out in a case study. 
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Teachstache

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Re: What's your income level and savings rate?
« Reply #91 on: June 15, 2017, 07:19:57 AM »
Haven't posted in about a year, so thought I would. Spouse and I have 1 child, live in a relatively LCOL metro area in Nebraska. We earn $112k together in base salaries, I am a public school teacher & he is a community college employee. We save $63,800 of our base $112k gross income (56.9%) in a combination of maxed 457 (1), 403b (2), my state retirement pension (10% of my salary mandatory) & $3600 annually in a 529 plan for our 2 year old.

We are 35 (me) & 36 (him). Some features that allow this savings rate: part time free daycare from my mom, a low 30 year mortgage​ @ 3.6% on a 3 bedroom/3 bathroom home in biking distance of work & kid daycare (both for paid daycare & free Grandma daycare). We have 2 cars but no car payments & no student loans.

We have some additional side hustles of teaching evening college courses (me, netting around $5k per year) & crypto currency mining (spouse, depends on the market but anywhere from $7200-$12,000 per year). Extra income is put towards mortgage (my side hustle) or reinvested in crypto currency mining equipment (spouse's side hustle).

We are both naturally frugal, but we completely realize how fortunate we are to have family taking care of our 2 year old part time for free. If we had 2 kids in center based daycare totaling $1,600 per month, we'd never have achieved this savings rate.

NESailor

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Re: What's your income level and savings rate?
« Reply #92 on: June 15, 2017, 07:30:41 AM »
Here is a budget calculator for a "modest lifestyle" budget.  You can pick geographic area and family size. I used this as a tool for myself by subtracting the tax (as this will vary with income) and using the remaining amounts as a baseline "high" spending for myself no matter where I move for my employment.

I think the categories are off, but the total spending minus taxes is a good gauge regarding how Mustachian spending should look.  If I'm below by more than 10% I'm happy, if above I suck. Just one guys opinion.

It's an interesting tool but seems to fail in certain areas.  I live in rural NY and it's telling me I need around 77K for 2 adults and 2 kids.  Interested in what my buddy in Denver needs for the same size family - 71K... I don't think so ;)

SnidelyWhiplashStache

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Re: What's your income level and savings rate?
« Reply #93 on: June 15, 2017, 09:52:19 AM »
I know this forum is known for face punches and promoting high savings rates but I also think if someone is making choices and isn't complaining about working longer because of them then they're still fitting in here. To me the mustachian way is about owning the financial decisions you make and achieving your goals. Which for many of us is early retirement but even that is defined differently​ for  different people. Now if someone was saving 25% but complaining that they couldn't possibly cut back more and whining that they couldn't retire early I think face punches would be in order. But even MMM himself admits he inflates his spending on things like organic food, travel, etc. I think the bigger goal is to stop complaining and take ownership of your finances. Whether that means saving 90% or 10% makes no difference if you're happy and aware of the opportunity costs associated with your decisions.


Bingo.  This is what I was trying to say but you expressed it much more succinctly.

does not mean we still shouldnt be face punching people for their choices or lack of willingness to optimize and try to push them in the right direction.  the posters posting about these low savings rates have low posting rates ... which can be inferred to mean new.(it may not be but likely is)  with 8 posts its highly unlikely you've done a case study.  Its human nature to seek out support for your decisions.  But the real hard truth is its HIGHLY ... very HIGHLY unlikely those making over 100k(and closer to 200k from those combatting this) truly are optimizing things when only saving 25% of income.  most in that realm that are big spenders still are finding this forum much later in life and have hard fast ideas about how this all works and are less open minded to change their life style.  "i'm 55 and i loved my job"  maybe b/c you didnt realize there were other options b/c FIRE forums didnt exist when you were 25.  it also takes a certain level of ego to climb to these higher salaries typically.  and no one likes to look back and say shit i could have been doing this a different way. 

IMO if you've got a low savings rate and havent opened up that budget to the community to pick a part and help you out you're missing the largest benefit here.

as stated above saving 10k a year for each of 6 kids schooling .... in a case study that would be picked apart instantly.  i mean holy cow if you're investing that correctly you're saying your kids are gonna get 363k for college each! in today dollars.  assuming you did this from birth to 18.  thats 100% unnecessary.  maybe you're just doing it for 5 years and then your 50-60k gets dumped into your savings rate.  all that would come out in a case study.

Ah, the FNG syndrome.  New to this Forum and Site. True.  New to investing, budgeting, finances.  False.  You are correct, I haven't done a case study.  Who knows maybe I will at some point.  I certainly recognize there are points in my own budget that need adjusting for expense optimization, however as expressed earlier, I have made those choices based on current situation and desires. 

You want to face punch me for my savings rate of "only" 25% on $200k+ feel free.  But I am not trying to out-save anyone by increasing that to a percentage that doesn't fit in to my particular plan simply because some may view it as too little.  Just working toward financial security in my own little piece of the world. 

And stated again, at 55 with a new career change after leaving the job I loved for 21+ years, I am looking to FIRE next year.  I would not have changed those 21+ years even if MMM was around.  Isn't part of the advocacy of MMM to be able to have time to do what you really want to do.  Well, I spent 21+ years doing just that in a job I dreamed of doing as a little kid.  And was paid a decent salary for it with a pension to boot.

boarder42

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Re: What's your income level and savings rate?
« Reply #94 on: June 15, 2017, 09:59:13 AM »
I know this forum is known for face punches and promoting high savings rates but I also think if someone is making choices and isn't complaining about working longer because of them then they're still fitting in here. To me the mustachian way is about owning the financial decisions you make and achieving your goals. Which for many of us is early retirement but even that is defined differently​ for  different people. Now if someone was saving 25% but complaining that they couldn't possibly cut back more and whining that they couldn't retire early I think face punches would be in order. But even MMM himself admits he inflates his spending on things like organic food, travel, etc. I think the bigger goal is to stop complaining and take ownership of your finances. Whether that means saving 90% or 10% makes no difference if you're happy and aware of the opportunity costs associated with your decisions.


Bingo.  This is what I was trying to say but you expressed it much more succinctly.

does not mean we still shouldnt be face punching people for their choices or lack of willingness to optimize and try to push them in the right direction.  the posters posting about these low savings rates have low posting rates ... which can be inferred to mean new.(it may not be but likely is)  with 8 posts its highly unlikely you've done a case study.  Its human nature to seek out support for your decisions.  But the real hard truth is its HIGHLY ... very HIGHLY unlikely those making over 100k(and closer to 200k from those combatting this) truly are optimizing things when only saving 25% of income.  most in that realm that are big spenders still are finding this forum much later in life and have hard fast ideas about how this all works and are less open minded to change their life style.  "i'm 55 and i loved my job"  maybe b/c you didnt realize there were other options b/c FIRE forums didnt exist when you were 25.  it also takes a certain level of ego to climb to these higher salaries typically.  and no one likes to look back and say shit i could have been doing this a different way. 

IMO if you've got a low savings rate and havent opened up that budget to the community to pick a part and help you out you're missing the largest benefit here.

as stated above saving 10k a year for each of 6 kids schooling .... in a case study that would be picked apart instantly.  i mean holy cow if you're investing that correctly you're saying your kids are gonna get 363k for college each! in today dollars.  assuming you did this from birth to 18.  thats 100% unnecessary.  maybe you're just doing it for 5 years and then your 50-60k gets dumped into your savings rate.  all that would come out in a case study.

Ah, the FNG syndrome.  New to this Forum and Site. True.  New to investing, budgeting, finances.  False.  You are correct, I haven't done a case study.  Who knows maybe I will at some point.  I certainly recognize there are points in my own budget that need adjusting for expense optimization, however as expressed earlier, I have made those choices based on current situation and desires. 

You want to face punch me for my savings rate of "only" 25% on $200k+ feel free.  But I am not trying to out-save anyone by increasing that to a percentage that doesn't fit in to my particular plan simply because some may view it as too little.  Just working toward financial security in my own little piece of the world. 

And stated again, at 55 with a new career change after leaving the job I loved for 21+ years, I am looking to FIRE next year.  I would not have changed those 21+ years even if MMM was around.  Isn't part of the advocacy of MMM to be able to have time to do what you really want to do.  Well, I spent 21+ years doing just that in a job I dreamed of doing as a little kid.  And was paid a decent salary for it with a pension to boot.

yes this is atrocious around here.  to pull in that amount of money and say 25% of it its not "only" only doesnt belong in quotes with that level of income and 25% savings.
PM me about how to save 6% on your annual grocery Bill!

There is a 35k starwood bonus right now as well. PM me for the info.

SnidelyWhiplashStache

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Re: What's your income level and savings rate?
« Reply #95 on: June 15, 2017, 10:12:12 AM »
The only was placed in quotes because that is what you had said.  Hence the reason for quotes.  You obviously don't approve of my savings/income ratio and by assumption my expenses/budget/investments/NW, etc.  Whatever.  I'll still be FIRE'd in a year because I know my plan is true.

boarder42

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Re: What's your income level and savings rate?
« Reply #96 on: June 15, 2017, 10:18:22 AM »
The only was placed in quotes because that is what you had said.  Hence the reason for quotes.  You obviously don't approve of my savings/income ratio and by assumption my expenses/budget/investments/NW, etc.  Whatever.  I'll still be retired in a year because I know my plan is true.

fixed that for ya.
PM me about how to save 6% on your annual grocery Bill!

There is a 35k starwood bonus right now as well. PM me for the info.

Lmoot

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Re: What's your income level and savings rate?
« Reply #97 on: June 15, 2017, 10:34:15 AM »
Oh boy. My heart sincerely breaks for those who seek to escape their current circumstances so much that they cannot even conceive of someone being fine with not being FIRE by their 30's.

YoungGranny

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Re: What's your income level and savings rate?
« Reply #98 on: June 15, 2017, 10:35:04 AM »
I know this forum is known for face punches and promoting high savings rates but I also think if someone is making choices and isn't complaining about working longer because of them then they're still fitting in here. To me the mustachian way is about owning the financial decisions you make and achieving your goals. Which for many of us is early retirement but even that is defined differently​ for  different people. Now if someone was saving 25% but complaining that they couldn't possibly cut back more and whining that they couldn't retire early I think face punches would be in order. But even MMM himself admits he inflates his spending on things like organic food, travel, etc. I think the bigger goal is to stop complaining and take ownership of your finances. Whether that means saving 90% or 10% makes no difference if you're happy and aware of the opportunity costs associated with your decisions.

Bingo.  This is what I was trying to say but you expressed it much more succinctly.

does not mean we still shouldnt be face punching people for their choices or lack of willingness to optimize and try to push them in the right direction.  the posters posting about these low savings rates have low posting rates ... which can be inferred to mean new.(it may not be but likely is)  with 8 posts its highly unlikely you've done a case study.  Its human nature to seek out support for your decisions.  But the real hard truth is its HIGHLY ... very HIGHLY unlikely those making over 100k(and closer to 200k from those combatting this) truly are optimizing things when only saving 25% of income.  most in that realm that are big spenders still are finding this forum much later in life and have hard fast ideas about how this all works and are less open minded to change their life style.  "i'm 55 and i loved my job"  maybe b/c you didnt realize there were other options b/c FIRE forums didnt exist when you were 25.  it also takes a certain level of ego to climb to these higher salaries typically.  and no one likes to look back and say shit i could have been doing this a different way. 

IMO if you've got a low savings rate and havent opened up that budget to the community to pick a part and help you out you're missing the largest benefit here.

as stated above saving 10k a year for each of 6 kids schooling .... in a case study that would be picked apart instantly.  i mean holy cow if you're investing that correctly you're saying your kids are gonna get 363k for college each! in today dollars.  assuming you did this from birth to 18.  thats 100% unnecessary.  maybe you're just doing it for 5 years and then your 50-60k gets dumped into your savings rate.  all that would come out in a case study.

Yea that's a fair point. I think perhaps I just empathize a bit more because although I have a savings rate of right around 65% I know if I did a case study with some of the frugal B.A.s on this site I'd be due for a million face punches. I could cut out various luxuries  and likely get closer to probably 70-75% savings but I make a choice to spend more on housing/food/transportation (still a 2 car family) than I absolutely have to because I like the quality of life I have. I do understand where you're coming from because a certain amount of bloat is just being wasteful of resources. However, in the example of savings for college expenses I have nothing to add because I personally don't have kids yet so I'm not an expert in how much should or shouldn't be saved so I can't speak to if that's excessive or not.

Hope I'm not coming across as rude - I'm enjoying the conversation and trying my best to understand both viewpoints!

SnidelyWhiplashStache

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Re: What's your income level and savings rate?
« Reply #99 on: June 15, 2017, 10:42:13 AM »
The only was placed in quotes because that is what you had said.  Hence the reason for quotes.  You obviously don't approve of my savings/income ratio and by assumption my expenses/budget/investments/NW, etc.  Whatever.  I'll still be retired in a year because I know my plan is true.

fixed that for ya.

My mom always said to make sure and wear clean underwear and never argue with crazy people.  Peace.  Out.