Poll

What's your income level and savings rate?

$0-$50k - 0%-20%
$0-$50k - 20%-50%
$0-$50k - 50%+
$50-$75k - 0%-20%
$50-$75k - 20%-50%
$50-$75k - 50%+
$75-$100k - 0%-20%
$75-$100k - 20%-50%
$75-$100k - 50%+
>$100k - 0%-20%
>$100k - 20%-50%
>$100k - 50%+

Author Topic: What's your income level and savings rate?  (Read 16349 times)

StarBright

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 747
Re: What's your income level and savings rate?
« Reply #100 on: June 15, 2017, 10:42:29 AM »
Here is a budget calculator for a "modest lifestyle" budget.  You can pick geographic area and family size. I used this as a tool for myself by subtracting the tax (as this will vary with income) and using the remaining amounts as a baseline "high" spending for myself no matter where I move for my employment.

I think the categories are off, but the total spending minus taxes is a good gauge regarding how Mustachian spending should look.  If I'm below by more than 10% I'm happy, if above I suck. Just one guys opinion.

It's an interesting tool but seems to fail in certain areas.  I live in rural NY and it's telling me I need around 77K for 2 adults and 2 kids.  Interested in what my buddy in Denver needs for the same size family - 71K... I don't think so ;)

I think some metro areas are off. Rather than going by my actual zipcode (a rather nice college town)  it assigned me to the nearest large city 30 minutes away, which is a depressed Rustbelt city. Both the childcare and housing numbers were way too low.

jooniFLORisploo

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2294
  • Location: on terra wateria
Re: What's your income level and savings rate?
« Reply #101 on: June 15, 2017, 11:05:25 AM »
While I don't save for my child's post-secondary*, if I did I would still certainly include such numbers in my savings rate.

I don't think it's only "saving" if it will be used for FIRE. Saving is saving, regardless of what we use a stash for ultimately. And if one or more of a family's kids chooses not to go to college, the money is available for whatever else anyway.

*I actually do max out a kid college account, but only for the government top-up of 20%+. If for some bizarre reason he really, really, really needs it for college, we'll use it that way. Otherwise we'll give back the portion of initial grants required, and roll the results into general life uses.

boarder42

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5248
Re: What's your income level and savings rate?
« Reply #102 on: June 15, 2017, 11:17:34 AM »
The only was placed in quotes because that is what you had said.  Hence the reason for quotes.  You obviously don't approve of my savings/income ratio and by assumption my expenses/budget/investments/NW, etc.  Whatever.  I'll still be retired in a year because I know my plan is true.

fixed that for ya.

My mom always said to make sure and wear clean underwear and never argue with crazy people.  Peace.  Out.

so i'm crazy b/c saving 25% of your 200k income on a fire forum is face punch worthy and b/c i said you're basically looking at a traditional retirement due to your pension and being within 4.5 years of the age of normal retirement.

must be a lot of wacko's around this forum then. 
PM me about how to save 6% on your annual grocery Bill!

There is a 35k starwood bonus right now as well. PM me for the info.

index

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 255
Re: What's your income level and savings rate?
« Reply #103 on: June 15, 2017, 12:43:53 PM »
We in the group making over 100k and saving under 50%. Here is the cliff notes version for our chosen path:

We are saving 35% on a pretax income of 150k.

Tax and HDHP Health Insurance - 27.7k
Fixed expenses are 30k -  (mortgage, tax, insurance, rental property, cable, telephone, gym, and utilities)
Variable expenses are 32k (Food, travel, clothing, gas, auto maintenance, pets, etc...)
Home renovation expenses 8k

Savings 52k

We have everything broken up in a detailed spreadsheet that is updated once a month. The crazy thing is, we could substantially cut down on our quality of life by not taking any vacations (7k), no going out to dinner (4k), canceling gym memberships (2k), stop drinking good wine (2k), and finish renovating the house  (8k) and save an additional 23k per year and put us at a 50% SR. This would cut the amount of time to FI from 16 years 10 months, to 13 years 6 months. 

We are 29 and 30. I have no plans to quit working and enjoy my job. My wife will quite her corporate job and pursue her own passions in another 3-4 years. If I work an extra 3 years and 4 months I get:

14 - Trips to Europe
14 - Trips to Central or South America
730 - Meals out
1550 - Bottles of good wine
14  years of Yoga + Climbing gym memberships
and a very nice fully renovated house 2 miles from our workplace.


« Last Edit: June 15, 2017, 01:05:45 PM by index »

wenchsenior

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1054
Re: What's your income level and savings rate?
« Reply #104 on: June 15, 2017, 01:03:53 PM »
The only was placed in quotes because that is what you had said.  Hence the reason for quotes.  You obviously don't approve of my savings/income ratio and by assumption my expenses/budget/investments/NW, etc.  Whatever.  I'll still be retired in a year because I know my plan is true.

fixed that for ya.

My mom always said to make sure and wear clean underwear and never argue with crazy people.  Peace.  Out.

so i'm crazy b/c saving 25% of your 200k income on a fire forum is face punch worthy and b/c i said you're basically looking at a traditional retirement due to your pension and being within 4.5 years of the age of normal retirement.

must be a lot of wacko's around this forum then.

Most of the hardcore mustachians on this forum don't act like such smug, obnoxious board-police as you are in this thread. Please try to chill out.  IMO, we should encourage every level of the Mustachian mindset, and your attitude will just put people off. If people want specific critiques of their plans and lifestyles, presumably they will ask. 

Sweeney

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 4
  • Age: 47
  • Location: Des Moines, IA
Re: What's your income level and savings rate?
« Reply #105 on: June 15, 2017, 01:07:44 PM »
My family is also in the over $100k saving under 50% camp. We are older parents who have older parents ourselves. I've got one kid in day care, one in high school, and one going off to college. In addition to that our older parents health are starting to fail. My family is mostly overseas and my wife's family is more than 1000 miles away. A lot of random expenses seem to come up that make it very hard to get above 50% savings. I think we are doing pretty well, but I can't see getting above 50% savings any time soon.

boarder42

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5248
Re: What's your income level and savings rate?
« Reply #106 on: June 15, 2017, 01:28:29 PM »
The only was placed in quotes because that is what you had said.  Hence the reason for quotes.  You obviously don't approve of my savings/income ratio and by assumption my expenses/budget/investments/NW, etc.  Whatever.  I'll still be retired in a year because I know my plan is true.

fixed that for ya.

My mom always said to make sure and wear clean underwear and never argue with crazy people.  Peace.  Out.

so i'm crazy b/c saving 25% of your 200k income on a fire forum is face punch worthy and b/c i said you're basically looking at a traditional retirement due to your pension and being within 4.5 years of the age of normal retirement.

must be a lot of wacko's around this forum then.

Most of the hardcore mustachians on this forum don't act like such smug, obnoxious board-police as you are in this thread. Please try to chill out.  IMO, we should encourage every level of the Mustachian mindset, and your attitude will just put people off. If people want specific critiques of their plans and lifestyles, presumably they will ask.

i said i was surprised to see all the 100k plus people not primarily in the 50% plus range

then there started to become a group of people banding together to talk about how hard it is to save 50% on 200k ... something that has no place in this forum IMO.
PM me about how to save 6% on your annual grocery Bill!

There is a 35k starwood bonus right now as well. PM me for the info.

honeybbq

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 654
Re: What's your income level and savings rate?
« Reply #107 on: June 15, 2017, 01:30:19 PM »
Funny how greater than 30% of the poll is 100K or more with greater than 50% savings yet not one comment from this group. Scarcely anything from anyone cresting 100K at all which is greater than 50% of all participants. Interesting.
They just have no time to reply because fire is approaching so fast ;)

With 100k gross income i would save about 70% net easily. I would fire in 3 years or so.
Sadly i am way more down (60k gross) but currently feed a family of four, so still doing great in my opinion.

I always have to pipe up when I see comments that are "If I made XYZ, I could save ABC"... the truth is many people who make a lot of money live in HCOLA. I moved to a HCOLA and increased my salary by over 50k, but I don't get an extra 50k worth of savings because of the extra expenses associated along with living in that area to make that salary.  My savings 'rate' is about the same, I just make more. So it ends up being a win overall, but it's not like a smoking gun.

boarder42

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5248
Re: What's your income level and savings rate?
« Reply #108 on: June 15, 2017, 01:34:52 PM »
Funny how greater than 30% of the poll is 100K or more with greater than 50% savings yet not one comment from this group. Scarcely anything from anyone cresting 100K at all which is greater than 50% of all participants. Interesting.
They just have no time to reply because fire is approaching so fast ;)

With 100k gross income i would save about 70% net easily. I would fire in 3 years or so.
Sadly i am way more down (60k gross) but currently feed a family of four, so still doing great in my opinion.

I always have to pipe up when I see comments that are "If I made XYZ, I could save ABC"... the truth is many people who make a lot of money live in HCOLA. I moved to a HCOLA and increased my salary by over 50k, but I don't get an extra 50k worth of savings because of the extra expenses associated along with living in that area to make that salary.  My savings 'rate' is about the same, I just make more. So it ends up being a win overall, but it's not like a smoking gun.

we're around 160k-170k gross income and invest around 110k+ annually -  always trying to squeeze more out. variance is due to my bonus structure at work.  more bonus more money into savings. if you were to count house equity gain that savings goes up more but its not something i count.
PM me about how to save 6% on your annual grocery Bill!

There is a 35k starwood bonus right now as well. PM me for the info.

honeybbq

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 654
Re: What's your income level and savings rate?
« Reply #109 on: June 15, 2017, 01:34:55 PM »
Funny how greater than 30% of the poll is 100K or more with greater than 50% savings yet not one comment from this group. Scarcely anything from anyone cresting 100K at all which is greater than 50% of all participants. Interesting.

Interesting. I put in Seattle and 2 adults one child and it told us we only needed 1100/month for housing. A 2 bedroom bare bones apartment is 1800/month and a fixer-upper house is 750k. Not sure how accurate this data is.

Just to answer the OP, we are way above 100k, right around 50-55% so I answered 50%.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2017, 01:41:46 PM by honeybbq »

honeybbq

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 654
Re: What's your income level and savings rate?
« Reply #110 on: June 15, 2017, 01:40:37 PM »




then there started to become a group of people banding together to talk about how hard it is to save 50% on 200k ... something that has no place in this forum IMO.

Meh. Places where you earn 200k, day care for an infant costs $2500/month. Yes, 200k is a shit ton of money. I've lived in LCOLA and VHCOLA and money is money, but expenses rise with the average salary. I think people in rural Oklahoma and the like really can't fathom the expenses in HCOLA unless they've personally done it. I had a VERY nice house in the midwest for $400k, but you literally can NOT buy a house in Seattle for $400 k. Condemed lots costs more than 400k. Easy come easy go.


boarder42

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5248
Re: What's your income level and savings rate?
« Reply #111 on: June 15, 2017, 01:50:30 PM »




then there started to become a group of people banding together to talk about how hard it is to save 50% on 200k ... something that has no place in this forum IMO.

Meh. Places where you earn 200k, day care for an infant costs $2500/month. Yes, 200k is a shit ton of money. I've lived in LCOLA and VHCOLA and money is money, but expenses rise with the average salary. I think people in rural Oklahoma and the like really can't fathom the expenses in HCOLA unless they've personally done it. I had a VERY nice house in the midwest for $400k, but you literally can NOT buy a house in Seattle for $400 k. Condemed lots costs more than 400k. Easy come easy go.

it was family income and you can earn 200k household in Missouri.  i practically do that ... and we're talking 55 year olds stating what they make.  if i worked til 55 i'd be pulling over 300k in missouri in today dollars.

shit if i worked til 55 my SWR would be over 550k a year that would just be nuts.  should we buy another lake house this year hunny ... i dunno... we already have 7
« Last Edit: June 15, 2017, 01:52:13 PM by boarder42 »
PM me about how to save 6% on your annual grocery Bill!

There is a 35k starwood bonus right now as well. PM me for the info.

SnidelyWhiplashStache

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 12
Re: What's your income level and savings rate?
« Reply #112 on: June 15, 2017, 01:51:32 PM »




then there started to become a group of people banding together to talk about how hard it is to save 50% on 200k ... something that has no place in this forum IMO.

Meh. Places where you earn 200k, day care for an infant costs $2500/month. Yes, 200k is a shit ton of money. I've lived in LCOLA and VHCOLA and money is money, but expenses rise with the average salary. I think people in rural Oklahoma and the like really can't fathom the expenses in HCOLA unless they've personally done it. I had a VERY nice house in the midwest for $400k, but you literally can NOT buy a house in Seattle for $400 k. Condemed lots costs more than 400k. Easy come easy go.

Not to mention the additional and continued costs associated with kids.  I have three and have lived in an HCOL area for most of my life.  My wife and I made the choice to put our three kids through college so they were able to obtain degrees with no debt.  Now two have gone on to graduate school and we have helped out with those, including living expenses, however they have each taken loans to cover some of that cost. 

Choices we all make and things we do for our kids.

Congrats on the 50% savings rate.  We are not there and probably never will be which causes some on this forum to chastize for lack of true MMM adherence.

dropspindl

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 31
  • Age: 34
  • Location: nyc
Re: What's your income level and savings rate?
« Reply #113 on: June 15, 2017, 01:52:22 PM »

Meh. Places where you earn 200k, day care for an infant costs $2500/month.



Don't think so. Quick Google search shows that average cost of infant daycare in NYC (where I live)  is $1354/mo.

This isn't the forum to talk about how hard it is to save with six figure incomes. That's what the rest of the internet is for. I would be sad if this forum filled up with people discussing their six figure lifestyle, because this is where I go to get AWAY from that mindset.

 I've been a member of other communities where people saying "there's no wrong way to do <x>" eventually led to <x> being a meaningless category.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2017, 01:55:07 PM by dropspindl »

boarder42

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5248
Re: What's your income level and savings rate?
« Reply #114 on: June 15, 2017, 01:57:05 PM »

Meh. Places where you earn 200k, day care for an infant costs $2500/month.



Don't think so. Quick Google search shows that average cost of infant daycare in NYC (where I live)  is $1354/mo.

This isn't the forum to talk about how hard it is to save with six figure incomes. That's what the rest of the internet is for. I would be sad if this forum filled up with people discussing their six figure lifestyle, because this is where I go to get AWAY from that mindset.

 I've been a member of other communities where people saying "there's no wrong way to do <x>" eventually led to <x> being a meaningless category.

i prefer to live a 6 figure lifestyle on much less ... so it annoys me to almost no end when people say i just cant do it.  yes you can optimize.

now if you've already completely inflated your lifestyle worked til 55 and have a pension that covers it ... who really cares.  but then whats this forum doing for you?
PM me about how to save 6% on your annual grocery Bill!

There is a 35k starwood bonus right now as well. PM me for the info.

talltexan

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 687
Re: What's your income level and savings rate?
« Reply #115 on: June 15, 2017, 02:11:35 PM »
In a LCOL, it wouldn't surprise me if a lot of people have housing costs BELOW their child care costs. So then optimize the higher expense.

In a HCOL, your housing cost is probably still greater. So optimize that.

But people in each world would probably think that the other was unfamiliar.

caracarn

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 564
Re: What's your income level and savings rate?
« Reply #116 on: June 15, 2017, 02:41:04 PM »
For the older kids we have a car for them to use to get to work as biking back from McDonald's for an hour at 2 AM when they close the store versus getting home in 10 minutes is probably again not going to earn me any points from child services. 

Where do you live that kids (ages 13-17?) can work until 2 AM?
Ohio.  They need a form filled out from employer each week that shows they are driving back from work if it is after midnight (until 1 year after license obtained) or 1 AM (until 18).
Wow, it must've changed a lot. When I worked in OH as a minor (2000-2005) and supervised minors (2005-06), minors were not allowed to 1) use scissors or box cutters on the job or 2) work later than 10PM.

It was extremely strict, we got fined $10K for every violation of a minor working after 10PM (or 9PM when under 16) - large grocery store so our fines were high. Also very strict break rules and alcohol handling rules, thanks to a history of minor labor abuse in Ohio's agricultural and factory history. I always thought it was a bit too restrictive.
This is the ENTIRE section of Ohio Minor Labor Laws chapter 4109:
RESTRICTIONS ON WORKING HOURS FOR MINORS 16 and 17 YEARS OF AGE
No person 16 or 17 who is required to attend school shall be employed:
1. Before 7 a.m. on any day that school is in session or 6 a.m. if the person was not employed after 8 p.m. the previous night
2. After 11 p.m. on any night preceding a day that school is in session.


As you can see, when school is not in session, virtually no restrictions at all.  They can work them 60 hours a week, 12 hours a day any time of day or whatever does not break regular labor laws.
And even with school in session Friday and Saturday night is again, wide open.

StarBright

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 747
Re: What's your income level and savings rate?
« Reply #117 on: June 15, 2017, 02:47:37 PM »

Meh. Places where you earn 200k, day care for an infant costs $2500/month.



Don't think so. Quick Google search shows that average cost of infant daycare in NYC (where I live)  is $1354/mo.


Whoa! That is about what I paid in NC 5 years ago and only a couple hundred more than our current center in Ohio charges. If that is quality childcare then that is a STEAL!

caracarn

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 564
Re: What's your income level and savings rate?
« Reply #118 on: June 15, 2017, 03:01:19 PM »

as stated above saving 10k a year for each of 6 kids schooling .... in a case study that would be picked apart instantly.  i mean holy cow if you're investing that correctly you're saying your kids are gonna get 363k for college each! in today dollars.  assuming you did this from birth to 18.  thats 100% unnecessary.  maybe you're just doing it for 5 years and then your 50-60k gets dumped into your savings rate.  all that would come out in a case study.

Since this is directed at my response, I'll add some color.  Yes, this is for a 5 year period as we are a remarried couple where my three kids had a bit of a 529 that then had stopped contributions  because after divorce and no liquid cash for a while it was tough, and her three who have 0 saved.  All the kids are above in middle school through college already, so I do not have 20 years to save while they grow up.  Also not sure if you are aware, but all they can borrow is $$31K in Stafford Loans, which for even a state school is not even half of what they need (our oldest is at Kent State now and they will be $80K over the 4 years).  How would you like a child to cover that $55K gap?  I'm not dumb enough to co-sign loans for them, which is the ONLY way to get more than the $31K if you get nothing from school for aid.  At our income you get a happy donut from them.  Sorry if I sound offended, because yes, the judgmental tone without details is a little too direct of a face punch.  I think we're doing pretty darn well to be able to save $50K for the kids, and my point of sharing that was to show that it could obviously be added to the $46K we already are saving bringing the total to almost $100K saved IF I was putting it to FIRE out of $200K NET not GROSS.  So actual take home last year was around $172K and we could have saved $100K if I decided to basically tell my kids "we're not helping you at all".  That turns into a 58% savings rate but because I made, I guess what you are deeming a terrible choice to help my kids, it would be picked apart instantly in a case study.  I didn't make college stupidly expensive and make it impossible for a kid to go if you make any amount of money without a parent putting their financial well being on the line.  Are you telling me that I'd really get a better case study if I said, "I'm saving 60% of my income but I'm going to cosign on over $300K of loans to get my six kids through basic state schools and go into FIRE with the possibility of having to pay that debt myself if my kids can't/don't want to swing it?"  Makes zero sense to me.

Going to one other comment here.  I'm not whining that I could not make different choices and save more.  I posted by rate, and then only elaborated because someone commented that those of us over $100K were not offering any comments and people wondered why.  Then it turned into this.

caracarn

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 564
Re: What's your income level and savings rate?
« Reply #119 on: June 15, 2017, 03:21:33 PM »

Meh. Places where you earn 200k, day care for an infant costs $2500/month.



Don't think so. Quick Google search shows that average cost of infant daycare in NYC (where I live)  is $1354/mo.

This isn't the forum to talk about how hard it is to save with six figure incomes. That's what the rest of the internet is for. I would be sad if this forum filled up with people discussing their six figure lifestyle, because this is where I go to get AWAY from that mindset.

 I've been a member of other communities where people saying "there's no wrong way to do <x>" eventually led to <x> being a meaningless category.

i prefer to live a 6 figure lifestyle on much less ... so it annoys me to almost no end when people say i just cant do it.  yes you can optimize.

now if you've already completely inflated your lifestyle worked til 55 and have a pension that covers it ... who really cares.  but then whats this forum doing for you?
The point I would suggest you mix from your soapbox is your expectation of life experience is not what everyone's life is like. 

I was 35 with $300K saved.  Then shit happened and I got divorced and do to concessions and Snidely says, to get my kids away from their mom who literally yelled in their face of my three year old son for the year before we got divorced, "I wish I never had you!" I ended up with zero equity, and only $75K left of that $300K because I parted with the rest to get my kids out of that toxic environment.  Could I have "optimized" that decision?  Probably.  Are you really going to sit here and argue that point?

Now 7 years later (3 of which I still had to pay her $1,200/month in alimony and have the kids 80% of the time) and she has not paid one dime towards any of their expenses, I have gotten that $75K up to $289K in retirement funds and $85K in taxable investments and added three wonderful kids who have a deadbeat for a dad on the other side to my family along with my wonderful wife.  I've decided to help those kids and mine to be able to attend college, and I simply share some basic details on an internet forum that I have felt  for the last year I have been here was very open and accommodating and get attacked by the MMM gestapo as being a deadbeat optimizer.  We do not have 7 vacation homes.  We have what we need to get by and are doing a damn good job optimizing given those shitty circumstances thank you very much.  Pontificating about how awesome your income would be had you stayed working is really smug considering you have no idea if that is the case.  Are you immune to layoffs and downsizings?  Some of us have not had the problem free life you seem to have had where wealth was not lost and savings were next to nothing and made decisions to prioritize out kids over some lifestyle that we agree with and are trying hard to work within, but then get judged for. 

FrogStash

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 69
  • Location: TX
  • Get there...FASTER!
Re: What's your income level and savings rate?
« Reply #120 on: June 15, 2017, 03:21:46 PM »
$110K/65.7% savings rate this year

caveat 1: interior remodeling work and wedding this year, so lower than usual rate

caveat 2: just got major promotion and raise on May 1.  In past, $$ significantly lower and savings rate a bit lower too

Did you save for the wedding/remodel? If so, then I would personally consider that as part of the savings rate. I don't know if, or how, the intention of the poll is to account for what you spend those savings on.

If you spend your savings, then it isn't saving any more.  It is spending.  I think the question clearly meant saving for retirement.

Mmm_Donuts

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 310
Re: What's your income level and savings rate?
« Reply #121 on: June 15, 2017, 03:32:04 PM »
...but then whats this forum doing for you?

This is fortunately not for you to decide. It may be hard for you to fathom, but people can come and go on this forum as they please. If they find it useful and interesting, then they stay! If not, then they go.

We all are here for different reasons. Please, stop trying to force your own reasons onto other people.

Classical_Liberal

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 697
  • Age: 41
Re: What's your income level and savings rate?
« Reply #122 on: June 15, 2017, 03:47:12 PM »
i said i was surprised to see all the 100k plus people not primarily in the 50% plus range

then there started to become a group of people banding together to talk about how hard it is to save 50% on 200k ... something that has no place in this forum IMO.

I'm with boarder in this discussion.  The blow-back from the original comment is further evidence this forum is deteriorating from the original MMM message.  We've gone from limited, intelligent, efficient consumption (less than average) to "I'm a one-percenter, but I live like a two-percenter" and that's really the best I can do, [insert further whine and/or hurt feeling comment here].

Much like the blog, the earlier threads in this forum are more helpful than the later, particularly when it comes to the core reduced consumption discussions. That's not to say this still isn't a good place to come and learn if one is interested in the core message to change lifestyle.  We are all a work in progress, but to claim a 25% SR with a 1%er income is Mustachian?  Sorry... nope!

Scortius

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 268
Re: What's your income level and savings rate?
« Reply #123 on: June 15, 2017, 04:19:55 PM »
Well, this got contentious in a hurry, but considering the original purpose of the thread perhaps it's not so surprising.

I think there is a fairly large disconnect here between what people aspire to and how we act.  We have to remember that this is MMM, not bogleheads or another financial site.  I mean, even boarder's spending is ridiculously extravagant by MMM standards.  We're at a site where the main message is that you can lead a fulfilling life free of want for around $25k/year (with no mortgage or rent).  Thus, the idea that you could pull in $200k/yr and spend more than half of it is somewhat crazy and does go against the message here, for whatever that is worth.

My family brings in about $180k/yr combined, and I don't think we're that close to saving half (probably around 35% at this point).  I think it's entirely face-punch worthy and I am certainly open to criticism.  Yes, it's different if you're living in a HCOL city with kids, but even then you don't have to take offense to the main message, you just have to ignore boarder and realize that this metric just doesn't apply to you very well.   Now, if you're pulling 200k in a LCOL city and you're not managing to put away half of your post-tax income... I think it's fair to bring up the quote, "so... what do you say you do here?"


boarder42

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5248
Re: What's your income level and savings rate?
« Reply #124 on: June 15, 2017, 04:21:22 PM »

Meh. Places where you earn 200k, day care for an infant costs $2500/month.



Don't think so. Quick Google search shows that average cost of infant daycare in NYC (where I live)  is $1354/mo.

This isn't the forum to talk about how hard it is to save with six figure incomes. That's what the rest of the internet is for. I would be sad if this forum filled up with people discussing their six figure lifestyle, because this is where I go to get AWAY from that mindset.

 I've been a member of other communities where people saying "there's no wrong way to do <x>" eventually led to <x> being a meaningless category.

i prefer to live a 6 figure lifestyle on much less ... so it annoys me to almost no end when people say i just cant do it.  yes you can optimize.

now if you've already completely inflated your lifestyle worked til 55 and have a pension that covers it ... who really cares.  but then whats this forum doing for you?
The point I would suggest you mix from your soapbox is your expectation of life experience is not what everyone's life is like. 

I was 35 with $300K saved.  Then shit happened and I got divorced and do to concessions and Snidely says, to get my kids away from their mom who literally yelled in their face of my three year old son for the year before we got divorced, "I wish I never had you!" I ended up with zero equity, and only $75K left of that $300K because I parted with the rest to get my kids out of that toxic environment.  Could I have "optimized" that decision?  Probably.  Are you really going to sit here and argue that point?

Now 7 years later (3 of which I still had to pay her $1,200/month in alimony and have the kids 80% of the time) and she has not paid one dime towards any of their expenses, I have gotten that $75K up to $289K in retirement funds and $85K in taxable investments and added three wonderful kids who have a deadbeat for a dad on the other side to my family along with my wonderful wife.  I've decided to help those kids and mine to be able to attend college, and I simply share some basic details on an internet forum that I have felt  for the last year I have been here was very open and accommodating and get attacked by the MMM gestapo as being a deadbeat optimizer.  We do not have 7 vacation homes.  We have what we need to get by and are doing a damn good job optimizing given those shitty circumstances thank you very much.  Pontificating about how awesome your income would be had you stayed working is really smug considering you have no idea if that is the case.  Are you immune to layoffs and downsizings?  Some of us have not had the problem free life you seem to have had where wealth was not lost and savings were next to nothing and made decisions to prioritize out kids over some lifestyle that we agree with and are trying hard to work within, but then get judged for.

Again you're making a laundry list of reasons why you can't, how about throw down a case study and learn how you can. I just have a fundamental problem with the can't do attitude.

Maybe we'll all come to the same conclusion you have... That it can't be done but I'd wager that's highly unlikely

If you'd responded with I'm new I'm learning I'd like some help. That's where this forum can benefit you.  Your response was I can't do it to which I lose what are you trying to gain from this site then.

Can't can't can't.
PM me about how to save 6% on your annual grocery Bill!

There is a 35k starwood bonus right now as well. PM me for the info.

EconDiva

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 771
Re: What's your income level and savings rate?
« Reply #125 on: June 15, 2017, 04:24:29 PM »
What is the minimum SR needed to be a true Mustachian?

boarder42

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5248
Re: What's your income level and savings rate?
« Reply #126 on: June 15, 2017, 04:31:09 PM »
What is the minimum SR needed to be a true Mustachian?

I'd say it has much more to do with spending that saving. And I'd put it around 40k with housing for a family of 4. Even if doubled for high col area it's only 80k

« Last Edit: June 15, 2017, 04:41:45 PM by boarder42 »
PM me about how to save 6% on your annual grocery Bill!

There is a 35k starwood bonus right now as well. PM me for the info.

tarheeldan

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 663
Re: What's your income level and savings rate?
« Reply #127 on: June 15, 2017, 04:32:36 PM »
I'm with boarder in this discussion.  The blow-back from the original comment is further evidence this forum is deteriorating from the original MMM message. 

There's no question. A victim of its own popularity. I've been thinking it'd be nice to have a "hardcore" section, but if things follow the "diluted by mainstream thinking" pattern, it'll only be a stopgap. Oh well, it was cool while it lasted.

Classical_Liberal

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 697
  • Age: 41
Re: What's your income level and savings rate?
« Reply #128 on: June 15, 2017, 04:41:08 PM »
What is the minimum SR needed to be a true Mustachian?

I'd say it has much more to do with spending that saving. And I'd put it around 40k with housing for a family of 4.

+1, in that it's about total consumption (spending).  Which is why I placed that calculator up-thread earlier, an attempt to compare apple to orange situations.  I realize it inst a perfect tool, if anyone has better one feel free to link it.  Here is a different "living wage" calculator. 

The general point is that if an average household can "make it" on these comparatively low numbers, someone from this forum should be able to live very well on the same amount.  That's the whole point, to learn how.

honeybbq

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 654
Re: What's your income level and savings rate?
« Reply #129 on: June 15, 2017, 04:43:14 PM »

Meh. Places where you earn 200k, day care for an infant costs $2500/month.



Don't think so. Quick Google search shows that average cost of infant daycare in NYC (where I live)  is $1354/mo.

This isn't the forum to talk about how hard it is to save with six figure incomes. That's what the rest of the internet is for. I would be sad if this forum filled up with people discussing their six figure lifestyle, because this is where I go to get AWAY from that mindset.

 I've been a member of other communities where people saying "there's no wrong way to do <x>" eventually led to <x> being a meaningless category.

A six figure lifestyle can still be a mustachian one.

I have a child in day care in a HCOLA, I think that makes my post on how much daycare ACTUALLY costs a lot more valid than your random internet browser search.

But just to show you I can 'google' too:

The average cost for full time care in NYC ranges from $1,300-$2,500/month. Centers typically charge more for younger children because they require more care and attention (diaper changes, feeding help, etc.). Costs for infant and toddler care averages $1,800/month in NYC.
Child Care Centers - NYU
https://www.nyu.edu/employees/life...care/child-care/...children/child-care-centers.html

At Bright Horizons in Redmond, for instance, infant care costs about $2,200 per month, Kidspace in Ballard charges $2,150 per month, and the Seattle Infant Development Center and Preschool in central Seattle charges $2,000 per month.Sep 25, 2014
King County's daycare dilemma - Crosscut
crosscut.com/2014/09/parents-seek-alternatives-tough-seattle-childcare/


In home care costs less. I send my daughter to a daycare center. It's almost $2500 for an infant. The data for Seattle is 3 years old.

You can say whatever you want about my spending or earning. It's just not as simple as envisioning an enormous paycheck and making it so. It costs a lot to make a lot in SOME areas of the US. THAT is my point. Everyone who thinks they'd spend less on housing because they'd find the non existent 500k 2 bedroom house is laughable because there ARE NONE.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2017, 04:48:50 PM by honeybbq »

boarder42

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5248
Re: What's your income level and savings rate?
« Reply #130 on: June 15, 2017, 04:47:13 PM »
Infant development center.

Apparently the more sophisticated words you put in your name the more you can charge people.

I'm going to start the infant cranium enlargement school for kids who can't read good and want to do other things good too
PM me about how to save 6% on your annual grocery Bill!

There is a 35k starwood bonus right now as well. PM me for the info.

honeybbq

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 654
Re: What's your income level and savings rate?
« Reply #131 on: June 15, 2017, 04:51:01 PM »
Infant development center.

Apparently the more sophisticated words you put in your name the more you can charge people.

I'm going to start the infant cranium enlargement school for kids who can't read good and want to do other things good too

Really? Now you're going to go there? I take my kid to a day care center, and that's what I called it. You are really unbelievable.  At least you can admit you are wrong.

Lmoot

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 272
Re: What's your income level and savings rate?
« Reply #132 on: June 15, 2017, 04:55:08 PM »
$110K/65.7% savings rate this year

caveat 1: interior remodeling work and wedding this year, so lower than usual rate

caveat 2: just got major promotion and raise on May 1.  In past, $$ significantly lower and savings rate a bit lower too

Did you save for the wedding/remodel? If so, then I would personally consider that as part of the savings rate. I don't know if, or how, the intention of the poll is to account for what you spend those savings on.

If you spend your savings, then it isn't saving any more.  It is spending.  I think the question clearly meant saving for retirement.

 I don't think it was very clear that it was for retirement savings. It would've said retirement savings, and apparently a whole bunch of other people missed the message as they included non-retirement savings. It is important to know your savings rate, or capability, whether or not it's going towards retirement or other things. Because you can always change your mind what you're saving for later, all the way up until the second before you spend it.


boarder42

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5248
Re: What's your income level and savings rate?
« Reply #133 on: June 15, 2017, 04:57:01 PM »
Infant development center.

Apparently the more sophisticated words you put in your name the more you can charge people.

I'm going to start the infant cranium enlargement school for kids who can't read good and want to do other things good too

Really? Now you're going to go there? I take my kid to a day care center, and that's what I called it. You are really unbelievable.  At least you can admit you are wrong.

I'm not the one who posted about the cost of childcare. Much too touchy a subject for people. But since you asked. I went thru in home as did my brother I see no value in overpriced childcare centers for infants.

My comment was meant with sarcasm which I thought would have been understood by the Zoolander reference
PM me about how to save 6% on your annual grocery Bill!

There is a 35k starwood bonus right now as well. PM me for the info.

boarder42

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5248
Re: What's your income level and savings rate?
« Reply #134 on: June 15, 2017, 05:01:54 PM »
$110K/65.7% savings rate this year

caveat 1: interior remodeling work and wedding this year, so lower than usual rate

caveat 2: just got major promotion and raise on May 1.  In past, $$ significantly lower and savings rate a bit lower too

Did you save for the wedding/remodel? If so, then I would personally consider that as part of the savings rate. I don't know if, or how, the intention of the poll is to account for what you spend those savings on.

If you spend your savings, then it isn't saving any more.  It is spending.  I think the question clearly meant saving for retirement.

 I don't think it was very clear that it was for retirement savings. It would've said retirement savings, and apparently a whole bunch of other people missed the message as they included non-retirement savings. It is important to know your savings rate, or capability, whether or not it's going towards retirement or other things. Because you can always change your mind what you're saving for later, all the way up until the second before you spend it.

I'd agree just bc you're putting money away now if it's earmarked to be spent later it is most certainly not savings. Unless that earmark is for when in retired.

I put a dollar in my bank today to buy a candy bar tomorrow. Does not increase my savings rate by a dollar.

Same way putting 1k in the bank today for my wedding next summer doesn't mean I increased my savings by 1k
« Last Edit: June 15, 2017, 05:04:43 PM by boarder42 »
PM me about how to save 6% on your annual grocery Bill!

There is a 35k starwood bonus right now as well. PM me for the info.

dropspindl

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 31
  • Age: 34
  • Location: nyc
Re: What's your income level and savings rate?
« Reply #135 on: June 15, 2017, 05:05:36 PM »


I have a child in day care in a HCOLA, I think that makes my post on how much daycare ACTUALLY costs a lot more valid than your random internet browser search.

But just to show you I can 'google' too:

The average cost for full time care in NYC ranges from $1,300-$2,500/month. Centers typically charge more for younger children because they require more care and attention (diaper changes, feeding help, etc.). Costs for infant and toddler care averages $1,800/month in NYC.
Child Care Centers - NYU
https://www.nyu.edu/employees/life...care/child-care/...children/child-care-centers.html


I'm a Manhattan nanny, so I'm fully aware of how much childcare CAN cost, if you let it. (My entire salary!)

Note, the source I found said $1354 average. (and I didn't cherry pick. I just used the first source)
The source you picked said $1800/mo average

Your original claim was $2500. You realize that even if you use your own source that's still too much.

When they (the source YOU quoted) say the NYC childcare cost RANGES from $1300-$2500, no Mustachian would budget for the HIGHEST amount in the range.


tarheeldan

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 663
Re: What's your income level and savings rate?
« Reply #136 on: June 15, 2017, 05:24:28 PM »
Oh goodie, dogma arguments.

Sometimes I wonder if Pete ever imagined a future reality where he became the messiah of a pedantic juggernaught. Suspect not. He probably just though it would be cool to start a blog. Poor bastard.

Yeah. The blog is really an attack on consumerism and waste (spending) and he used the word cult lol:
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/02/29/mr-money-mustache-the-frugal-guru

Dogma? You mean the thing we have in common that defines the blog and forum. That's the whole point.

Lmoot

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 272
Re: What's your income level and savings rate?
« Reply #137 on: June 15, 2017, 05:52:21 PM »
$110K/65.7% savings rate this year

caveat 1: interior remodeling work and wedding this year, so lower than usual rate

caveat 2: just got major promotion and raise on May 1.  In past, $$ significantly lower and savings rate a bit lower too

Did you save for the wedding/remodel? If so, then I would personally consider that as part of the savings rate. I don't know if, or how, the intention of the poll is to account for what you spend those savings on.

If you spend your savings, then it isn't saving any more.  It is spending.  I think the question clearly meant saving for retirement.

 I don't think it was very clear that it was for retirement savings. It would've said retirement savings, and apparently a whole bunch of other people missed the message as they included non-retirement savings. It is important to know your savings rate, or capability, whether or not it's going towards retirement or other things. Because you can always change your mind what you're saving for later, all the way up until the second before you spend it.

I'd agree just bc you're putting money away now if it's earmarked to be spent later it is most certainly not savings. Unless that earmark is for when in retired.

I put a dollar in my bank today to buy a candy bar tomorrow. Does not increase my savings rate by a dollar.

Same way putting 1k in the bank today for my wedding next summer doesn't mean I increased my savings by 1k

What say you then about buying assets? Or saving to invest in assets (remodel), or invest in a business.

boarder42

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5248
Re: What's your income level and savings rate?
« Reply #138 on: June 15, 2017, 06:06:33 PM »
$110K/65.7% savings rate this year

caveat 1: interior remodeling work and wedding this year, so lower than usual rate

caveat 2: just got major promotion and raise on May 1.  In past, $$ significantly lower and savings rate a bit lower too

Did you save for the wedding/remodel? If so, then I would personally consider that as part of the savings rate. I don't know if, or how, the intention of the poll is to account for what you spend those savings on.

If you spend your savings, then it isn't saving any more.  It is spending.  I think the question clearly meant saving for retirement.

 I don't think it was very clear that it was for retirement savings. It would've said retirement savings, and apparently a whole bunch of other people missed the message as they included non-retirement savings. It is important to know your savings rate, or capability, whether or not it's going towards retirement or other things. Because you can always change your mind what you're saving for later, all the way up until the second before you spend it.

I'd agree just bc you're putting money away now if it's earmarked to be spent later it is most certainly not savings. Unless that earmark is for when in retired.

I put a dollar in my bank today to buy a candy bar tomorrow. Does not increase my savings rate by a dollar.

Same way putting 1k in the bank today for my wedding next summer doesn't mean I increased my savings by 1k

What say you then about buying assets? Or saving to invest in assets (remodel), or invest in a business.

Remodeling isn't at asset unless you're flipping the house for profit. Investing with the goal of making more money to fire would be savings rate.
PM me about how to save 6% on your annual grocery Bill!

There is a 35k starwood bonus right now as well. PM me for the info.

ixtap

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 161
Re: What's your income level and savings rate?
« Reply #139 on: June 15, 2017, 06:28:49 PM »
$110K/65.7% savings rate this year

caveat 1: interior remodeling work and wedding this year, so lower than usual rate

caveat 2: just got major promotion and raise on May 1.  In past, $$ significantly lower and savings rate a bit lower too

Did you save for the wedding/remodel? If so, then I would personally consider that as part of the savings rate. I don't know if, or how, the intention of the poll is to account for what you spend those savings on.

If you spend your savings, then it isn't saving any more.  It is spending.  I think the question clearly meant saving for retirement.

 I don't think it was very clear that it was for retirement savings. It would've said retirement savings, and apparently a whole bunch of other people missed the message as they included non-retirement savings. It is important to know your savings rate, or capability, whether or not it's going towards retirement or other things. Because you can always change your mind what you're saving for later, all the way up until the second before you spend it.

I'd agree just bc you're putting money away now if it's earmarked to be spent later it is most certainly not savings. Unless that earmark is for when in retired.

I put a dollar in my bank today to buy a candy bar tomorrow. Does not increase my savings rate by a dollar.

Same way putting 1k in the bank today for my wedding next summer doesn't mean I increased my savings by 1k

Won't it earn interest? Don't you have it available to use for some other purpose, if you so choose?  Won't it be considered an asset if you need the leverage? Didn't you forgo some other want now?

dca

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 111
Re: What's your income level and savings rate?
« Reply #140 on: June 15, 2017, 07:20:14 PM »
What is the minimum SR needed to be a true Mustachian?

I'd say it has much more to do with spending that saving. And I'd put it around 40k with housing for a family of 4. Even if doubled for high col area it's only 80k

Here's what 220k gross in a HCOLA looks like:
50k taxes
40k housing (2bd/2ba apt)
15k daycare (this is in-home; would be 25k at a daycare center)
15k support for a relative (non-negotiable for us)
70k savings
30k everything else

Our 30k spend after fixed costs isn't too far off from MMM family's 25k. With both of us working, we do pay for some conveniences, but it's worth it to us with a crazy toddler.

Savings rate: 70k/170k(net) = 41%, or 70k/220k(gross) = 32%





BTDretire

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1190
Re: What's your income level and savings rate?
« Reply #141 on: June 15, 2017, 07:26:28 PM »
The only was placed in quotes because that is what you had said.  Hence the reason for quotes.  You obviously don't approve of my savings/income ratio and by assumption my expenses/budget/investments/NW, etc.  Whatever.  I'll still be retired in a year because I know my plan is true.

fixed that for ya.

My mom always said to make sure and wear clean underwear and never argue with crazy people.  Peace.  Out.

so i'm crazy b/c saving 25% of your 200k income on a fire forum is face punch worthy and b/c i said you're basically looking at a traditional retirement due to your pension and being within 4.5 years of the age of normal retirement.

must be a lot of wacko's around this forum then.

 I resemble that remark!

index

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 255
Re: What's your income level and savings rate?
« Reply #142 on: June 15, 2017, 08:36:28 PM »
Remodeling isn't at asset unless you're flipping the house for profit. Investing with the goal of making more money to fire would be savings rate.
I agree with you to an extent and actually had a problem with MMM not counting his 30k renovation into his expenses in his 2016 report. I started thinking though, if you do a renovation then get an appraisal and HELOC isn't the renovation actually an asset?

I will agree renovations typically have a poor return 60-70% but perhaps you should count this as an asset gain? What if you do the work yourself and come in at 50% of a typical renovation like mmm? How should we think about this?
« Last Edit: June 15, 2017, 08:39:06 PM by index »

ToughMother

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 163
  • Location: Western Mass.
Re: What's your income level and savings rate?
« Reply #143 on: June 15, 2017, 08:54:13 PM »
$110K/65.7% savings rate this year

caveat 1: interior remodeling work and wedding this year, so lower than usual rate

caveat 2: just got major promotion and raise on May 1.  In past, $$ significantly lower and savings rate a bit lower too

Did you save for the wedding/remodel? If so, then I would personally consider that as part of the savings rate. I don't know if, or how, the intention of the poll is to account for what you spend those savings on.

If you spend your savings, then it isn't saving any more.  It is spending.  I think the question clearly meant saving for retirement.

Savings are for expenses that happen at a later date whether the savings are for later retirement, travel, healthcare, house maintenance, emergency spending, etc.  In any event, the wedding/remodel is being primarily paid for with PRIOR savings (interestingly, savings intended for neither of those...) and a bit from current income (cash, no financing of anything).  Since I'm spending a bit of my current income on these new/one time expenses, that does not count as savings as FrogStash notes -- it is definitely spending, so my savings rate is down a bit.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2017, 03:36:11 AM by ToughMother »
In English & Latin,
ToughMother.

Lmoot

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 272
Re: What's your income level and savings rate?
« Reply #144 on: June 15, 2017, 09:36:25 PM »
$110K/65.7% savings rate this year

caveat 1: interior remodeling work and wedding this year, so lower than usual rate

caveat 2: just got major promotion and raise on May 1.  In past, $$ significantly lower and savings rate a bit lower too

Did you save for the wedding/remodel? If so, then I would personally consider that as part of the savings rate. I don't know if, or how, the intention of the poll is to account for what you spend those savings on.

If you spend your savings, then it isn't saving any more.  It is spending.  I think the question clearly meant saving for retirement.

 I don't think it was very clear that it was for retirement savings. It would've said retirement savings, and apparently a whole bunch of other people missed the message as they included non-retirement savings. It is important to know your savings rate, or capability, whether or not it's going towards retirement or other things. Because you can always change your mind what you're saving for later, all the way up until the second before you spend it.

I'd agree just bc you're putting money away now if it's earmarked to be spent later it is most certainly not savings. Unless that earmark is for when in retired.

I put a dollar in my bank today to buy a candy bar tomorrow. Does not increase my savings rate by a dollar.

Same way putting 1k in the bank today for my wedding next summer doesn't mean I increased my savings by 1k

What say you then about buying assets? Or saving to invest in assets (remodel), or invest in a business.

Remodeling isn't at asset unless you're flipping the house for profit. Investing with the goal of making more money to fire would be savings rate.

I didn't call it an asset. I called it an investment in an asset.

Lmoot

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 272
Re: What's your income level and savings rate?
« Reply #145 on: June 16, 2017, 04:06:38 AM »
$110K/65.7% savings rate this year

caveat 1: interior remodeling work and wedding this year, so lower than usual rate

caveat 2: just got major promotion and raise on May 1.  In past, $$ significantly lower and savings rate a bit lower too

Did you save for the wedding/remodel? If so, then I would personally consider that as part of the savings rate. I don't know if, or how, the intention of the poll is to account for what you spend those savings on.

If you spend your savings, then it isn't saving any more.  It is spending.  I think the question clearly meant saving for retirement.

Savings are for expenses that happen at a later date whether the savings are for later retirement, travel, healthcare, house maintenance, emergency spending, etc.  In any event, the wedding/remodel is being primarily paid for with PRIOR savings (interestingly, savings intended for neither of those...) and a bit from current income (cash, no financing of anything).  Since I'm spending a bit of my current income on these new/one time expenses, that does not count as savings as FrogStash notes -- it is definitely spending, so my savings rate is down a bit.

It sounds like we have our own ideas of what constitutes 1) savings 2) savings rate. And I am sure it matters how you measure it too. What if one were to say, savings rate for 2017? But you had some those savings marked for something in 2018? Is it not accurate to include those earmarked savings? It's just a moving measurement, it's not the end-game...at least that's how I interpret and calculate it for my own purposes.

Saving is a decision. Spending IMO, is a separate decision. Spending in the future might reduce your savings rate going forward, but I personally do not count it as retroactively reducing your savings rate if you take cash out of savings (NOT unless you are doing an end quarter, end year, end decade, pre-post retirement calculation); which is fine if that's how you do it. I find it easier and more useful for myself to calculate my savings rate on a monthly basis. It lets me know how much of my income I have available to save, and how much I have the will power to put away for another time.

As for boarder42's example of saving for a candy bar....if you want to xfer funds to designated savings account, and then transfer it back later, then yeah, call it savings....it would take more than 1 business day though.

Sometimes I even calculate the savings rate for a future purpose. How much do I have to save, in order to reach 'x' goal by 'x' time. So you see, it's merely a measurement, and it's up to us to define its parameters based on what we are using it for. But one definition of "savings rate" is not built into the term.

ToughMother

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 163
  • Location: Western Mass.
Re: What's your income level and savings rate?
« Reply #146 on: June 16, 2017, 04:28:51 AM »
First the retirement police, and now the savings police! (and evidently the "who is worthy" police too.  wow).

Like one of the poster's said - we have a general definition of savings that includes individual differences.  So be it.  Like yet another poster, I used this methodology: http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2015/01/26/calculating-net-worth/

That methodology works for me and I have the Personal Capital evidence of net worth (closing in on $800k - yay!) to demonstrate the veracity of my personal savings (and spending) rates (I reconcile quarterly).  I'm happy with the internal consistency of my financial data. 

Hope you all are too!  And good job to everyone who's hitting those 50% plus savings rates (however defined) and those who aspire to.
In English & Latin,
ToughMother.

Feivel2000

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 95
  • Age: 32
  • Location: Germany
Re: What's your income level and savings rate?
« Reply #147 on: June 16, 2017, 05:23:29 AM »
Infant development center.

Apparently the more sophisticated words you put in your name the more you can charge people.

I'm going to start the infant cranium enlargement school for kids who can't read good and want to do other things good too

Really? Now you're going to go there? I take my kid to a day care center, and that's what I called it. You are really unbelievable.  At least you can admit you are wrong.

Don't be too offended, it's a Zoolander joke.
http://gph.is/XKIy3w


Teachstache

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 38
Re: What's your income level and savings rate?
« Reply #148 on: June 16, 2017, 06:14:13 AM »
Infant development center.

Apparently the more sophisticated words you put in your name the more you can charge people.

I'm going to start the infant cranium enlargement school for kids who can't read good and want to do other things good too

I used to think (not say) these kinds of things, too. Basically, I was an expert on parenting before I had a kid. Now, I have an autistic 2 year old & my whole perspective has shifted. Some things just aren't under my control, & if I need to spend a bit more to help my kid develop language & social skills, that's money well spent in my book.

Bird In Hand

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 90
Re: What's your income level and savings rate?
« Reply #149 on: June 16, 2017, 06:46:17 AM »
I used to think (not say) these kinds of things, too. Basically, I was an expert on parenting before I had a kid. Now, I have an autistic 2 year old & my whole perspective has shifted. Some things just aren't under my control, & if I need to spend a bit more to help my kid develop language & social skills, that's money well spent in my book.

+1.  The world looks very black & white when viewed from an ivory tower.