Author Topic: What's the sorriest situation you've known of someone who couldn't retire?  (Read 38640 times)

Hula Hoop

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Now I feel a bit better about yelling at my kids for leaving lights on or having really long showers.

I can't imagine leaving toothpaste in the tube, running the hot water and air conditioning could account for all of her lack of savings though.  She must have wasted money in larger ways to blow through that much.

fuzzy math

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Now I feel a bit better about yelling at my kids for leaving lights on or having really long showers.

I can't imagine leaving toothpaste in the tube, running the hot water and air conditioning could account for all of her lack of savings though.  She must have wasted money in larger ways to blow through that much.

If that kind of thoughtlessness permeates a person's every single action, it can happen easily. My mom runs through a roll of paper towels daily. Thinks nothing of a $5 coffee. Nails are only $25. "Can't ever find anything on the clearance rack" so doesn't try. Doesn't combine trips out, and wastes gas. trades a car every 2 years, "the payment is only $20 higher a month, I can afford it" (even though she's now on an 8 yr loan).

If you go look at the really memorable case studies here, the people aren't blowing thousands on hookers and cocaine. It's $600 a month gas, it's too expensive car loans. It's the rent that's $100 a month higher than the other place, but oh you have to pay for the covered parking spot too. It's $150 too much a month on food, or $200 too much a month at a restaurant. It's the culmination of all of these little unaware choices that occur 40 times a day, the single one individually that won't harm you, but the sum of them are drowning you. The only difference is the people who come to get help on this forum actually look through their spending. The people like the roommate have literally never added up their spending. I know because it's my mom. She earned $100k a year for 15 years, and has nothing to show for it.

pachnik

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Wow.  $100,000 a year for 15 years and nothing to show for it.  Sorry to hear it Fuzzy Math. 

Being on this website makes us outliers.  I get that.  But I'd be sad for someone who made $50,000 a year and had nothing to show for it. 

Hula Hoop

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It's probably true.  My parents both grew up poor (dad on a farm in the middle of nowhere and mom in a big city) so it's second nature for me not to waste money on things or go into debt.  I still find it surprising when people buy brand new things that they could easily get second hand - like baby equipment or kids' bikes.  I guess they just grew up differently from me.

marty998

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Wow.  $100,000 a year for 15 years and nothing to show for it.  Sorry to hear it Fuzzy Math. 

Being on this website makes us outliers.  I get that.  But I'd be sad for someone who made $50,000 a year and had nothing to show for it.

I look at this like "she earned $1.5 million over the decade and has nothing to show for it".

If I project out how much I will earn over the next decade, I'm fairly certain my net worth will grow by at least that amount...

Zamboni

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If that kind of thoughtlessness permeates a person's every single action, it can happen easily. My mom runs through a roll of paper towels daily. Thinks nothing of a $5 coffee. Nails are only $25. "Can't ever find anything on the clearance rack" so doesn't try. Doesn't combine trips out, and wastes gas. trades a car every 2 years, "the payment is only $20 higher a month, I can afford it" (even though she's now on an 8 yr loan).

If you go look at the really memorable case studies here, the people aren't blowing thousands on hookers and cocaine. It's $600 a month gas, it's too expensive car loans. It's the rent that's $100 a month higher than the other place, but oh you have to pay for the covered parking spot too. It's $150 too much a month on food, or $200 too much a month at a restaurant. It's the culmination of all of these little unaware choices that occur 40 times a day, the single one individually that won't harm you, but the sum of them are drowning you. The only difference is the people who come to get help on this forum actually look through their spending. The people like the roommate have literally never added up their spending. I know because it's my mom. She earned $100k a year for 15 years, and has nothing to show for it.

Very insightful post. Mindless spending and justification of increased spending are definitely the two actions that bury most people.

fuzzy math

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Wow.  $100,000 a year for 15 years and nothing to show for it.  Sorry to hear it Fuzzy Math. 

Being on this website makes us outliers.  I get that.  But I'd be sad for someone who made $50,000 a year and had nothing to show for it.

I look at this like "she earned $1.5 million over the decade and has nothing to show for it".

If I project out how much I will earn over the next decade, I'm fairly certain my net worth will grow by at least that amount...

There was also a $250k cash out of a 401k from a divorce settlement that did not get rolled over (penalized and spent), and I think that the height of everything she ended up with $60k in her 401k. I'm guessing it's at about $20k now.

Roadrunner53

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Wow.  $100,000 a year for 15 years and nothing to show for it.  Sorry to hear it Fuzzy Math. 

Being on this website makes us outliers.  I get that.  But I'd be sad for someone who made $50,000 a year and had nothing to show for it.

I look at this like "she earned $1.5 million over the decade and has nothing to show for it".

If I project out how much I will earn over the next decade, I'm fairly certain my net worth will grow by at least that amount...

There was also a $250k cash out of a 401k from a divorce settlement that did not get rolled over (penalized and spent), and I think that the height of everything she ended up with $60k in her 401k. I'm guessing it's at about $20k now.

OMG, this makes me nauseous! 

pecunia

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Should you feel sorry for people who just blow their money?

These are not stupid people.  It's a different set of values.  Do you live in the present or the future?  If you are living now and letting the future take care of itself, you spend the money.  A lot of people spend too much time worrying, myself included.  Worry is usually a concern for the future.  If you can eliminate that worry with an attitude change, you may be happier.

For a lot of people who blow their cash when the future comes, they just accept it.  It's just the way it is.  It's like a lot of people who smoke. "When your time comes, it comes.  Nothing you can do about it."  In some ways its a very relaxed way of accepting the here and now.  It becomes very easy to just hang out.  It's probably easier to laugh with such people and be offered a brief interlude of relaxation.  Let's face it nervous worriers bring on nervous worry.  They've got stuff on their minds and do not wish to deviate from their thinking path to take the time to joke and smile.

Eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow for tomorrow we die - Phrase paraphrased from biblical verses.

They do what they do and it's their choice.

cloudsail

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I don't think it's true that they don't worry though. I've never known anyone with financial woes who didn't worry, and it often caused marital strife for couples. It's more like they spend a day being carefree when they spend the money, then the next 29 days worried about their finances.

Roadrunner53

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No, I absolutely would not feel sorry for people who blow money on stupid stuff. I do feel sorry for people who get in debt due to medical expenses.

I know this woman who is a hoarder. She constantly buys stupid stuff on QVC. Years ago I heard there was no room in her apartment and there are little paths from one room to the other. Her credit card was maxed out years ago and she could barely make the minimum payment. I have no idea what she does now. At that point when her card was maxed out she and her live in boyfriend went to Las Vegas! Are these people NUTS? She and the BF retired from a local factory and they may have a decent pension and she was eligible for SS at the time. He was too young then. What makes people buy stupid stuff, pile it up and never use it and can't afford it. UGH!

When the day comes and this woman gets sick or dies, all that junk will end up in the garbage or donated. Nobody will want any of it. Nobody has room for it. She doesn't have children and neither does he.

Cassie

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Hoarding is a mental illness.

ixtap

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Hoarding is a mental illness.
'
Yeah, it was really bizarre to see medical being excused, but then being confounded by a medical reason for senior poverty.

Cassie

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I have known hoarders that didnít spend all their money also. Just never threw anything away.

John Galt incarnate!

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Hoarding is a mental illness.

I understand that hoarders hoard because it gives them a sense of control.

iluvzbeach

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I've got a story that I've thought of posting since this thread first started; it's downright depressing and I'll share it below.

One of my parents has been an over spender and person who lives the "grand" life since they first became an adult.  They have forever chased the "next big windfall" and, surprisingly, they have always magically found one.  My other parent has stories of this going back to my childhood - we're talking leaving the responsible parent with me for the weekend with no money, no transportation and barely any food while the over spending parent took off for some adventure that required lots of money.  Needless to say, this marriage ended when I was young and I grew up with the responsible parent.  The other parent moved cross-country multiple times and could never be depended upon to pay for child support ("because it was helping the responsible parent.")

Fast forward to late 1990s when larger than life parent met another wonderful, responsible person and they fell in love, got married.  That new responsible person had a paid for home, investments, healthy retirement accounts and a great career.  Very quickly my irresponsible parent convinced their new spouse to sell their previously owned home and they blew through the proceeds to professionally decorate the home they were living in together.  Then new spouse's only living parent died and my stepparent inherited not insignificant but not huge amounts (200-300K.)  Within five years they'd spent the inheritance, all the investments and all retirement accounts that were non-401K.  Stepparent then changed jobs and (of course!) my fuckhead of an irresponsible parent convinced them to take out and spend the 401K from the former job.  Along the way, they repeatedly did cash out refinances on their home in a VHCOL area and bam 2008 hit.  Somehow they were able to keep said house but were always robbing Peter to pay Paul and keep up with the payments.  My parent stopped working somewhere in those years and it left the stepparent to earn money to keep up with their financial obligations while my parent "managed the money."

Eventually stepparent got laid off and that's where it went even further downhill.  Fortunately, they were able to short sell the house as they truly had no other money in the world to keep up with the payments.  In a matter of months they blew through a mid five figure severance package and then unemployment ran out.  They moved to a VLCOL place where another family member offered a lifetime lease on a lakefront property (with two houses), in exchange for payment of the property taxes after the first three years.  Six years in I find out that they've never paid the property taxes over the three years in which they were responsible for them, so I offered to pay them to ensure they didn't lose this lifetime lease and get kicked to the curb.

Over the years my worthless parent has continued to spend every penny they have, plus run up all sorts of debt that they never even make a payment on.  They repeatedly overdraw their account at the bank to the tune of $1,000 per month and when SS hits the account, they immediately skim the top $1,000 off the deposit just to bring their account back into the positive.  On the day SS posts, my parent spends all day shopping on Amazon to find things they can buy and very quickly the cycle repeats itself all over again.

My stepparent is a wonderful person but for whatever reason is desperately afraid to confront my bully of a parent.  In the meantime, they go to a job everyday (at nearly 70 years old) just to help with finances.  It's such a sucky situation and I have no idea why they have stayed in the marriage for as long as they have.

My parent has asked repeatedly to borrow money over the years to cover overdrafts, pay for prescriptions, get the water bill current so they don't have the water turned off, blah blah blah.  Between their two SS checks and my stepparent's paycheck, they are living on more money than my SO and I do on a monthly basis.  Mind you, we make a hell of a lot more but in typical MMM fashion we LWBOM and save way more than we spend.

It's a miserable situation and it is devastating that my stepparent has allowed my parent to do this to them.  I'll never understand how they could let it get to this point.  I try to stay out of it and not let it be my concern but it's very hard when you see this kind of thing happen to people you love, at their own hand.  We stopped helping financially long ago because we refuse to be the next victims of my parent's out of control spending, and we also know that it doesn't really help them at all; it just allows the situation to continue.

Once this parent is gone, we certainly plan to make sure the stepparent is well taken care of as they have no children or other family of their own to lean on.  In the meantime, my stepparent continues to work and tells my parent that they will not be able to work forever but it seems to fall on deaf ears and the spending continues.  This is by far the sorriest situation I've known of causing someone not to be able to retire.

Roadrunner53

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iluvzbeach, OMG, that is a horror story!

SunnyDays

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Well, ďthe roommateĒ has said something to the effect that she canít think about how little she has because itís too upsetting.  So she obviously didnít think about her money when she had lots of income and doesnít think about it now either.  When does she intend to think about it?  Never, I guess.  Sometimes I just have to bite my tongue really hard.  Unfortunately, another of her traits is ďknow it allĒ and itís a bit of a showdown every time I challenge her on something, so now I just donít bother.  None of it is my problem as long as she pays her rent.  And she does have a place lined up for September.  Luckily I was not asked for a reference because it would not have been an honest one!

Cassie

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Thatís a horrible story and I am shocked that the marriage survived.

pecunia

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Now here's a question for you folks.

The people whom I know that spend money that way always act like there is no problem when asked about it.  Aren't they happy just not thinking about it?  When they move to these LCOL (Low Cost of Living) quarters don't they just shrug their shoulders and just say little more than, "Oh well."?  Others chip in and support them.  When that support does not come in, isn't the same reaction given and they just move on until they work it out?  To these folks does it represent a real problem or do they see you as the problem to them for asking about it?

fuzzy math

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Now here's a question for you folks.

The people whom I know that spend money that way always act like there is no problem when asked about it.  Aren't they happy just not thinking about it?  When they move to these LCOL (Low Cost of Living) quarters don't they just shrug their shoulders and just say little more than, "Oh well."?  Others chip in and support them.  When that support does not come in, isn't the same reaction given and they just move on until they work it out?  To these folks does it represent a real problem or do they see you as the problem to them for asking about it?

My mother does not like having it brought up and refuses to accept reality. She knows there's a problem, but I'm to blame for "throwing it in her face". I believe that may be a direct quote from a few years back.

I would say there is significant worry on her part. She doesn't just accept the future, other than to say that when she's old and poor I should let medicaid pay for her nursing home so I don't go broke too. She grew up very poor and always felt like a piece of trash (has mentioned feeling that way and others judging her). I think the spending is compulsive, to prove she has what she couldn't have when she was young or to try to fill some deep personal void.

An in law of mine (hoarder, neglectful parent) had some traumatic abandonment issues as a child after finding out her adoption story. She has never gotten over it either. I would argue that there are mindless spenders, but for many / most there's something much deeper going on.


2WheelPilot

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For a lot of people who blow their cash when the future comes, they just accept it.  It's just the way it is.
I don't have a problem with that, IF that's what these people accept and do. However, many of these people blow their cash, then expect someone else to bail them out. THAT I have problem with.

And don't get me started on businesses that attempt to capitalize on this. Like these "debt relief" companies who claim that "you don't have to pay all of your debt". Yeah, sure, someone else will cover it for you. Creditors are just evil for expecting you to pay your debts.

OzzieandHarriet

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I donít know if this is the SORRIEST situation, but itís not good. My younger sister is very bright and intelligent, fun personality so has made friends easily most of her life. But she cannot seem to manage practical and financial business with common sense. And she is a CPA! Sheís had many good jobs over the years but quit most of them in some sort of funk or was fired because of her erratic behavior. Owned a nice little condo for a while but moved to another city and rented it out, had a bad tenant,  stopped paying the mortgage and eventually sold it at a loss. Spent every penny over the years with basically nothing to show for it now. Had one emotional breakdown after another, culminating in a suicide attempt about eight years ago while she was living at the other end of the country in a situation that went wrong totally predictably.

Sheís now almost 60, and the only thing keeping her afloat is that another sister has helped her out very generously, including housing, feeding, and clothing her as well as much other help ever since the suicide episode. Her emotional state is definitely much improved (after essentially being forced to take care of basic health things like sleeping and eating properly and after getting on our state Medicare), but sheís had a slew of illnesses. Currently sheís dealing with a serious leukemia diagnosis and is getting treated for it ó luckily all covered by her state health insurance.

I remember years ago my mother and I both trying to talk sense into her about how she was spending her money and her complaining about our ďfinancial rectitude.Ē

If it came down to it, Iíd help her (financially or otherwise), but thereís been so much tension between us all our lives it wouldnít be comfortable. Other sister has things well in hand at the moment and has plenty of means to do so. Having her live with us would be kind of a nightmare (and DH, who is generally a kind and compassionate person, vetoed that idea vehemently ó even though he likes her a lot), but it could be done if necessary.

Iím sure my sisters think of me as some sort of stingy villain, and maybe I am, but so be it. Iíve had my own emotional issues and donít want to risk getting sucked down the drain.

pachnik

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My mother does not like having it brought up and refuses to accept reality. She knows there's a problem, but I'm to blame for "throwing it in her face". I believe that may be a direct quote from a few years back.

I would say there is significant worry on her part. She doesn't just accept the future, other than to say that when she's old and poor I should let medicaid pay for her nursing home so I don't go broke too. She grew up very poor and always felt like a piece of trash (has mentioned feeling that way and others judging her). I think the spending is compulsive, to prove she has what she couldn't have when she was young or to try to fill some deep personal void.

An in law of mine (hoarder, neglectful parent) had some traumatic abandonment issues as a child after finding out her adoption story. She has never gotten over it either. I would argue that there are mindless spenders, but for many / most there's something much deeper going on.

Very thoughtful reply, fuzzy math.    Your mother and the in-law sound like they are 'acting out' by spending money.   Acting out because of a pretty serious issue.

Lady Stash

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Quote
For a lot of people who blow their cash when the future comes, they just accept it.  It's just the way it is.  It's like a lot of people who smoke. "When your time comes, it comes.  Nothing you can do about it."  In some ways its a very relaxed way of accepting the here and now.  It becomes very easy to just hang out.  It's probably easier to laugh with such people and be offered a brief interlude of relaxation.


I agree.  I had a boyfriend years ago and a neighbor who were both like this.  Lots of friends, laid back, wonderful to spend time with.  I have many happy memories with both of them.  Ultimately the lack of money responsibility tanked the relationship/friendship.  It was impossible to stay close emotionally and not help them financially.  They expected me to be generous because they were.  They shared and gave freely with their time and possessions.  They both spent everything they had + more on fun stuff (motorcycles, pretty things) or took long breaks from work to pursue hobbies.  Eventually they seemed to be constantly broke and needing a bail out but giving them money never helped for long.  I broke up with the boyfriend and drifted apart from the neighbor when their home was foreclosed and they had to move.  I still miss them both sometimes though.

Bloop Bloop

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Should you feel sorry for people who just blow their money?

These are not stupid people.  It's a different set of values.  Do you live in the present or the future?  If you are living now and letting the future take care of itself, you spend the money.  A lot of people spend too much time worrying, myself included.  Worry is usually a concern for the future.  If you can eliminate that worry with an attitude change, you may be happier.

For a lot of people who blow their cash when the future comes, they just accept it.  It's just the way it is.  It's like a lot of people who smoke. "When your time comes, it comes.  Nothing you can do about it."  In some ways its a very relaxed way of accepting the here and now.  It becomes very easy to just hang out.  It's probably easier to laugh with such people and be offered a brief interlude of relaxation.  Let's face it nervous worriers bring on nervous worry.  They've got stuff on their minds and do not wish to deviate from their thinking path to take the time to joke and smile.

Eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow for tomorrow we die - Phrase paraphrased from biblical verses.

They do what they do and it's their choice.

It's fine for someone to make a choice to blow all his or her money in the present - in fact maybe it is, in fact, the right thing to do in some cases - as long as that person does not ever complain about not being able to afford X, Y or Z. The two paths ought to be mutually exclusive.


Roadrunner53

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Should you feel sorry for people who just blow their money?

These are not stupid people.  It's a different set of values.  Do you live in the present or the future?  If you are living now and letting the future take care of itself, you spend the money.  A lot of people spend too much time worrying, myself included.  Worry is usually a concern for the future.  If you can eliminate that worry with an attitude change, you may be happier.

For a lot of people who blow their cash when the future comes, they just accept it.  It's just the way it is.  It's like a lot of people who smoke. "When your time comes, it comes.  Nothing you can do about it."  In some ways its a very relaxed way of accepting the here and now.  It becomes very easy to just hang out.  It's probably easier to laugh with such people and be offered a brief interlude of relaxation.  Let's face it nervous worriers bring on nervous worry.  They've got stuff on their minds and do not wish to deviate from their thinking path to take the time to joke and smile.

Eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow for tomorrow we die - Phrase paraphrased from biblical verses.

They do what they do and it's their choice.

It's fine for someone to make a choice to blow all his or her money in the present - in fact maybe it is, in fact, the right thing to do in some cases - as long as that person does not ever complain about not being able to afford X, Y or Z. The two paths ought to be mutually exclusive.


Yes, these people are stupid and selfish. Down the road when they are broke and crying their eyes out that they can't afford medicine, can't afford food, can't afford their house. Then what? Are they going to guilt their children and relatives for money? Will they go on Medicaid, food stamps, low income housing. All that stuff is going to cost others to pay for them. They need to get a grip and grow up.

frugalecon

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Should you feel sorry for people who just blow their money?

These are not stupid people.  It's a different set of values.  Do you live in the present or the future?  If you are living now and letting the future take care of itself, you spend the money.  A lot of people spend too much time worrying, myself included.  Worry is usually a concern for the future.  If you can eliminate that worry with an attitude change, you may be happier.

For a lot of people who blow their cash when the future comes, they just accept it.  It's just the way it is.  It's like a lot of people who smoke. "When your time comes, it comes.  Nothing you can do about it."  In some ways its a very relaxed way of accepting the here and now.  It becomes very easy to just hang out.  It's probably easier to laugh with such people and be offered a brief interlude of relaxation.  Let's face it nervous worriers bring on nervous worry.  They've got stuff on their minds and do not wish to deviate from their thinking path to take the time to joke and smile.

Eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow for tomorrow we die - Phrase paraphrased from biblical verses.

They do what they do and it's their choice.

It's fine for someone to make a choice to blow all his or her money in the present - in fact maybe it is, in fact, the right thing to do in some cases - as long as that person does not ever complain about not being able to afford X, Y or Z. The two paths ought to be mutually exclusive.


Yes, these people are stupid and selfish. Down the road when they are broke and crying their eyes out that they can't afford medicine, can't afford food, can't afford their house. Then what? Are they going to guilt their children and relatives for money? Will they go on Medicaid, food stamps, low income housing. All that stuff is going to cost others to pay for them. They need to get a grip and grow up.

A friend I have posted about on this board lost his job almost six years ago at age 61, and he burned through all assets within a couple of years. He has pieced a meager existence together from modest SS, public assistance, charity, and infusions from family and friends, including some from me, though that has almost completely dried up. The one thing he has never considered during this period was getting a "job job," something not in his field just to put together some money to stabilize his finances. I think that it is difficult for some people to sit back dispassionately and objectively analyze their situation. They know what they want now, and that is the most important thing to them. It mainly gets annoying when they look around and say, "I could have what I want if you would quit unreasonably refusing to fund it." I had cut off contact with this person for a while, but now I occasionally have communication. I have learned a lot about how to set boundaries.

SwordGuy

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Just remembered this one.

My elderly mom hired someone to do a lot of the housework.  Nice lady in her 60s.

She had divorced her husband but neither of them had any money so they had to continue to live together in the same residence.

Not only couldn't retire but had to live with her ex.

Lordy.

JGS1980

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Should you feel sorry for people who just blow their money?

These are not stupid people.  It's a different set of values.  Do you live in the present or the future?  If you are living now and letting the future take care of itself, you spend the money.  A lot of people spend too much time worrying, myself included.  Worry is usually a concern for the future.  If you can eliminate that worry with an attitude change, you may be happier.

For a lot of people who blow their cash when the future comes, they just accept it.  It's just the way it is.  It's like a lot of people who smoke. "When your time comes, it comes.  Nothing you can do about it."  In some ways its a very relaxed way of accepting the here and now.  It becomes very easy to just hang out.  It's probably easier to laugh with such people and be offered a brief interlude of relaxation.  Let's face it nervous worriers bring on nervous worry.  They've got stuff on their minds and do not wish to deviate from their thinking path to take the time to joke and smile.

Eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow for tomorrow we die - Phrase paraphrased from biblical verses.

They do what they do and it's their choice.

It's fine for someone to make a choice to blow all his or her money in the present - in fact maybe it is, in fact, the right thing to do in some cases - as long as that person does not ever complain about not being able to afford X, Y or Z. The two paths ought to be mutually exclusive.


Yes, these people are stupid and selfish. Down the road when they are broke and crying their eyes out that they can't afford medicine, can't afford food, can't afford their house. Then what? Are they going to guilt their children and relatives for money? Will they go on Medicaid, food stamps, low income housing. All that stuff is going to cost others to pay for them. They need to get a grip and grow up.

This is why we have to TAX the hell out of people (while they are actually making income) so that we can pay for EVERYTHING down the road. A high percentage of people are dependent on Social Security despite being told again and again and again all their lives that SS is just part of the equation. Same for Medicaid, Senior Housing, and Food Stamps. On the same note, I'm okay with ALL casino revenues, lottery, and cigarrette taxes going to pay for these things as its often the VERY SAME PEOPLE who do those things (I know, vast generalization).

Right now we undertax, and then simply float the budget. Not a good plan.

mozar

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I was recently talking to a woman who told me how angry she was because she was laid off two years ago, no pension, and only two weeks notice. Her house was being foreclosed on because she had to take social security at 62 because she couldn't find a job and ss wasn't enough to cover the house and everything else.

Then she told me she had the same job for 43 years and was making 70k and she and her late husband had bought the house at least 20 years ago. I was thinking wait a minute.  You had a job for 43 years and you didn't save a dollar? Not even a penny. Then she said you never think when you are working this could happen to you. No shit you didn't think about it.
She was going on about how ss was only 1/3 of her income (apparently she had never looked at her ss estimate ever) and she was horrified that Medicare is more expensive than medicaid.
I can understand not saving enough, but to not think about retirement at all for 43 years? Not even in your 50's. Or say when you turned 60?
This isn't due to mental illness. This is entitlement. She thought she would work up to the last minute she wanted to and ss would allow her to have the same lifestyle as before. U see this all the time. People in their 60's who are shocked!  Shocked! That they were laid of. And they had no savings or not enough.  I'm glad ss exists but you can't expect me to feel sorry for these people.

Roadrunner53

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I was recently talking to a woman who told me how angry she was because she was laid off two years ago, no pension, and only two weeks notice. Her house was being foreclosed on because she had to take social security at 62 because she couldn't find a job and ss wasn't enough to cover the house and everything else.

Then she told me she had the same job for 43 years and was making 70k and she and her late husband had bought the house at least 20 years ago. I was thinking wait a minute.  You had a job for 43 years and you didn't save a dollar? Not even a penny. Then she said you never think when you are working this could happen to you. No shit you didn't think about it.
She was going on about how ss was only 1/3 of her income (apparently she had never looked at her ss estimate ever) and she was horrified that Medicare is more expensive than medicaid.
I can understand not saving enough, but to not think about retirement at all for 43 years? Not even in your 50's. Or say when you turned 60?
This isn't due to mental illness. This is entitlement. She thought she would work up to the last minute she wanted to and ss would allow her to have the same lifestyle as before. U see this all the time. People in their 60's who are shocked!  Shocked! That they were laid of. And they had no savings or not enough.  I'm glad ss exists but you can't expect me to feel sorry for these people.

I didn't have a college education and saving money was something I did my entire life. I spent a lot of money too. Got a job with a fantastic company and worked as a temp for 9 months then they hired me. Then I had to wait a year to get into the 401K. GRRRR, that was the longest year ever. Then about a year later they changed the rules and  you could get into it day one. So I lost a year on that but I still did IRA's. As soon as eligible, that very day, I signed up and contributed till it hurt! Thank God I did because that job lasted 18 years minus my one year wait and I had a good chunk of money in my 401K. Plus, I got a pension too. I rolled that money over into retirement savings. I don't get how people 'don't think' about retirement money! It has been on my mind since I started working! I am retired now and doing pretty well.

SunnyDays

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Quote from: mozar link=topic=90738.msg2374807#msg2374807 date=1558032303 20 years ago. You had a job for 43 years and you didn't save a dollar? Not even a penny.
[/quote

I remember Suze Orman saying once that if you have worked for 10 years and you canít write a cheque for $3650.00, then you havenít even saved a dollar a day.  Sounds even worse when you put it like that.

Exflyboy

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Quote from: mozar link=topic=90738.msg2374807#msg2374807 date=1558032303 20 years ago. You had a job for 43 years and you didn't save a dollar? Not even a penny.
[/quote

I remember Suze Orman saying once that if you have worked for 10 years and you canít write a cheque for $3650.00, then you havenít even saved a dollar a day.  Sounds even worse when you put it like that.

And thats assuming a zero% return!!!

Roadrunner53

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Quote from: mozar link=topic=90738.msg2374807#msg2374807 date=1558032303 20 years ago. You had a job for 43 years and you didn't save a dollar? Not even a penny.
[/quote

I remember Suze Orman saying once that if you have worked for 10 years and you canít write a cheque for $3650.00, then you havenít even saved a dollar a day.  Sounds even worse when you put it like that.

And thats assuming a zero% return!!!

That is definitely food for thought and a great way to put it. Very easy to understand!

cassafrass

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I would argue that there are mindless spenders, but for many / most there's something much deeper going on.

I definitely agree with this and my mom has a similar story. She grew up very, very poor. From the ages of 2-4 she lived in an orphanage after her dad died and my grandmother couldn't afford to take care of her and her siblings. Later, as a single mom she worked two jobs to support my oldest siblings after she left her first husband (who never gave her any child support).

Then she met and married my dad, who was a successful small business owner, and started living a more comfortable life. But she started spending, spending, spending, I think to make up for her deprived early years. And she lavished toys/electronics/etc on me and my brother because she wanted to make sure we never felt the way she did as a child.

She also watched my dad and his siblings argue nastily over my grandparents estate, then had some issues with her own siblings after her mom died (one was accused of stealing my grandmother's jewelry from the house then draining her bank accounts while he was managing her finances in her later years). So my mom has always said she doesn't want to leave any money behind for us to fight over.

Now she lives on her social security and monthly payments my dad's sons give her for buying my dad's business after he died. She blows through all of her money as fast as ever. Once my half brothers' payments end in a few years, I think she's going to be in big trouble.

fuzzy math

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I was recently talking to a woman who told me how angry she was because she was laid off two years ago, no pension, and only two weeks notice. Her house was being foreclosed on because she had to take social security at 62 because she couldn't find a job and ss wasn't enough to cover the house and everything else.

Then she told me she had the same job for 43 years and was making 70k and she and her late husband had bought the house at least 20 years ago. I was thinking wait a minute.  You had a job for 43 years and you didn't save a dollar? Not even a penny. Then she said you never think when you are working this could happen to you. No shit you didn't think about it.
She was going on about how ss was only 1/3 of her income (apparently she had never looked at her ss estimate ever) and she was horrified that Medicare is more expensive than medicaid.
I can understand not saving enough, but to not think about retirement at all for 43 years? Not even in your 50's. Or say when you turned 60?
This isn't due to mental illness. This is entitlement. She thought she would work up to the last minute she wanted to and ss would allow her to have the same lifestyle as before. U see this all the time. People in their 60's who are shocked!  Shocked! That they were laid of. And they had no savings or not enough.  I'm glad ss exists but you can't expect me to feel sorry for these people.

The really weird/ sad thing is these people are paying tons in income taxes by not saving. They could have nearly the same take home pay if they'd tax shelter some of it into a 401k. It confuses the hell out of me.

Exflyboy

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The really weird/ sad thing is these people are paying tons in income taxes by not saving. They could have nearly the same take home pay if they'd tax shelter some of it into a 401k. It confuses the hell out of me.

Funnily enough I can remember thinking the same thing. After I paid off the mortgage in 2003 I went to max out my 401k and IRAs. Even though I knew I had plenty to live on the fear of "losing" spending power was a big psychological deal for me.

I mean I was 42 at the time and I was tying up a huge chunk of money for the next 18 years.

The crazy thing is Oregon has HORRIBLE state income taxes so there is even a bigger incentive to save pretax money.

Needless to say I did max out our savings and I am so glad I did.

pecunia

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 - SNIP-

I mean I was 42 at the time and I was tying up a huge chunk of money for the next 18 years.

The crazy thing is Oregon has HORRIBLE state income taxes so there is even a bigger incentive to save pretax money.

Needless to say I did max out our savings and I am so glad I did.

These stories make me feel very fortunate that my old relatives that grew up in the depression told me some of the tales they did and advised me to put some away.  Hard times are waiting to come for us all.  Not too many of us have jobs for the length of time that woman did.  These are different times.

So,.....Oregon has HORRIBLE state income taxes.  I used to live on the state line in Washington.  No income tax in Washington and I'd buy my stuff in Oregon with no sales tax.

DadJokes

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My wife got a Facebook friend request from someone with a name and picture she did not recognize. She looked into the profile and found pictures of one of her parents' friends. This man is going through dementia in a terrible way. He wasn't exactly a pleasant person to be around before (old racist), but it's become far worse in recent years. It turns out that he is now creating fake Facebook accounts after his primary account was deleted for what Facebook deemed hate speech (probably accurate).

After calling her mom, we learned that he has been equally unbearable to his wife and has been behaving very lecherously toward other women. The two of them want to get divorced, but said that they can't even afford that, since their only asset is their house, and neither could afford to live on their own. They're stuck living together because of their poor decisions throughout life.