What's the "Dave Ramsey" equivalent for personal fitness?

[MrThatsDifferent]

1. Walk every day. 5000 steps in the morning. 7000 steps throughout the day.
2. Eat palm sized meals every 1-1.5 hrs
3. Avoid the white versions: bread, rice, pasta, sugar, potatoes, flour and salt
4. Find a physical activity you love, do it as much as you can
5. Eat more green vegetables
6. Push-ups, sit-ups, pull ups and squats—those are the only exercises you need to do
7. Have more sex
8. Drink more water and less alcohol
9. No carbs on Mondays
10. Have a 12 hour no eating window, like 8pm-8am

There you go. Simple. Cheap. Effective. Can’t get more mustachian than that.

[MDfive21]

subscribe to the bodybuilding.com youtube channel.  lot of various workouts done by experts, plus some diet related posts.  watching those giant dudes lifting dumbells that are over half my weight is pretty motivating.  and i'm not a big guy.. 155 at 5'11". 

[mm1970]

For me it is P90X and Tony Horton

Don't eat bread
Don't eat fried food
Don't eat sugar
Eat lots of veggies and clean foods
Exercise 4x a week. Every other day. Serious sweat inducing exercise. Not what most overweight folks at the gym do. On off days do yard work, vacuum, clean etc. As you lose weight and get to your target weight you can pull this down some, example maybe just 3x a week.

These two things right here, and I'd add a third: Mark's Daily Apple.

I think what a lot of people need is simple. 

For some people, that's a program or a specific plan that is laid out for you.
For other's, it's baby steps and simple rules.

That's where those 3 things come in.

I like P90X but I ain't got time for that.  I have Beachbody On Demand, and when I want to work out at home (which is rare because: 1. I like people and 2. I have children and a very small house), I always return to 21 day fix as my workout of choice, because they are 30 minutes.  And the program came with an eating plan that was very healthy and flexible.  Here are colored containers.  Each color corresponds to a certain kind of food.  You get a certain amount each day.  It was great for learning portion control, and within a bit of time I didn't need it anymore.

The second is a list of simple rules that for many people, will get them to be better off than they are right now.  So, steps in the right direction.

The third with Mark's Daily Apple - from an exercise standpoint, seems like a simple list of rules.  Move frequently at a low pace (aka, walking, hiking).  Lift heavy things (includes body weight exercises).  Sprint once in awhile.  I don't follow the anti-grain and anti-bean suggestions.

Thing is, what do you like?  I like people.  I've been running a lot the last couple of years, because it's challenging and I can join running groups.  Yep I pay for them.  I love the *idea* of working out at home, and I do it occasionally when spouse travels.  But, I don't love it.  Some people really like biking.  Some people walk.  Some people love crossfit or group fitness classes.

Food wise, if you keep half of your plate or more vegetables, you'll be on a good track to start.

[GuitarStv]

I eat bread, fried food, and sugar . . . and am in great shape.  The key is to not be stupid about eating any of them.  It's like owning/using a credit card.  If you aren't responsible about using the credit card, then yeah . . . cut it out of your life.  If you have a modicum of self control, you're certainly not going to be hurt by using it, and in some cases use can be beneficial.

YMMV.

[SilveradoBojangles]

Honestly, if you do any exercise at all consistently it will "work", though I suppose it depends on your individual goals. The key is creating a routine where you have some exercise built into your day, every day, so that you are consistent. You have to get to the mindset where it become non-negotiable, or you will talk yourself out of it. For some people this is walking or biking to work, for some people this is a run first thing in the morning before any other competing time needs come along. For some people this is exercise classes or gym time on your calendar, or a hike with a friend. If you keep doing it, you will see results. And then when you get used to it, you miss it when you don't have it.

Generally speaking, I'd agree with this . . . but I'd also add one important detail that's missing:  Growth and measurement.

Your chosen sport/activity needs to have a way for you to progressively improve and challenge yourself, and you need a simple way to chart that progress.

Take jogging as an example. 

Without growth, initially everything is good.  You get out there a few times a week, feel better and are getting healthier.  But then you hit a point where it gets stale and boring.  After a couple years, you're not really improving any more . . . it's not exciting any more . . . so you quit.

With growth, initially everything is good.  You get out there a few times a week, feel better and are getting healthier.  You progress from doing a mile, to five miles, to the occasional twenty mile run.  You track your speed in a notebook and regularly see improvements.  The improvements slow as you become a better athlete, but they are always there . . . steadily creeping up.
Changing your diet for the better doesn't have much visible impact, but a few months on a new diet and you can look at your records to tell if it's working for you.  Preparing for a 5k race and you notice that your average speed goes way up even though the mileage drops.  You have a record of what level you were at before an injury, so have a goal to shoot for when you're finished healing and ready to get going again.

See, this is where I think it depends on your goals/mindset. I'm not trying to do anything other than maintain - I want to feel as healthy as I do now, I want to continue to be able to eat the occasional cookies or pizza and stay the same weight, I want to maintain my flexibility, and I want to be able to go for a spur of the moment hike, or walk around all day or go for a bike ride or whatever and not feel wrecked the next day. So for me, I do not need to see progress (example - I always do the same run, and I've never timed myself. I just listen to a podcast and look at the pretty flowers and keep running. The point is that I do it consistently, so calories are burned and muscles are utilized). I just need to keep moving consistently so I don't see decline.

[GuitarStv]

You always have to have some sort of goal though, and you need to be able to see if you're meeting that goal.

Your stated goal is to not see decline.  If you start out running 5k in twenty minutes, and several years later you're running 5k in 40 minutes there has been a significant decline in your health.  You will be burning fewer net calories (because your metabolism will not be as elevated post-workout) so won't be able to eat the occasional cookie and pizza without feeling the effects more.  Your muscles are not being utilized as well as they were, so you'll get gradually weaker and less healthy.  You'll get to a point where you start to feel wrecked when going for a bike ride or after walking around all day.

This is why so many people talk about their metabolism slowing down when they hit a particular age.  They feel like they're still working hard, but have gradually been letting the foot off the gas . . . and just never measured what was going on so it catches them by surprise.

[PJC74]

P90X, running and the likes = crypto

Our genes haven't changed much in the last 10k years. You think our ancestors ran for no reason? Nope, they sprinted to chase/run away/catch prey and took long walks to forage a new area.

Overload principle (your muscles ,heart included) is tried and true. Sprinting, squats, deads, pull ups etc.

Ever seen a runner whos older than 50 and been doing it for a while?  They look beat. Can you say free radicle damage? How many times have you heard of a runner dying of a heart attack?  Many times.  It's because the heart, like any muscle, needs to be stimulated but not annihilated.

A good friend of mine runs a gym. He's in great shape, looks way younger than his age, and he will be the first one to tell you the spin classes, TRX classes, etc, etc are all for $$$. He laughs when I ask him if he does them.

His workouts are no longer than 40 min, consisting of squats, deads, barbell bench, etc. Only time he is running /pedaling/swimming is doing a sport ie; bball, mountain biking, surfing, etc.

[mm1970]

You always have to have some sort of goal though, and you need to be able to see if you're meeting that goal.

Your stated goal is to not see decline.  If you start out running 5k in twenty minutes, and several years later you're running 5k in 40 minutes there has been a significant decline in your health.  You will be burning fewer net calories (because your metabolism will not be as elevated post-workout) so won't be able to eat the occasional cookie and pizza without feeling the effects more.  Your muscles are not being utilized as well as they were, so you'll get gradually weaker and less healthy.  You'll get to a point where you start to feel wrecked when going for a bike ride or after walking around all day.

This is why so many people talk about their metabolism slowing down when they hit a particular age.  They feel like they're still working hard, but have gradually been letting the foot off the gas . . . and just never measured what was going on so it catches them by surprise.

Uh, the metabolism does slow down as you age.  Mostly due to activity and muscle, but also due to hormone and general body function.

And usually people also slow down too, due to aging issues with joints and such.  For me, the aches and pains started at 39.5.  Meaning: more injuries, more time to recover from injuries, less total time and/or intensity due to the possibility of injuries.  (Using running as an example - keeping on top of your joints is not terribly hard in your 20's.  As you age though - stretching, foam rolling, hip and core work, all become much more necessary in order to prevent injury.   Going from age 30 to 40 doesn't mean you suddenly have an extra 1-2 hours a week to put towards that.   So if you are getting 3 hours of exercise total a week, then you just subtracted 1-2 hours of running for "injury prevention".)

But on the goal thing...no, you don't really "need" a goal.  YOU need a goal.  I'd be willing to bet that personality-wise, MANY mustachians like goals (ahem, looking in the mirror here).  But I have many friends who are healthy and happy without any kind of "goal".  They do lots of things - walk, run, hike, bike to work, lift weights, meet with a trainer, race, do triathlons, do yoga.  And...they have no particular goal to strive for.  They like being fit, they've made exercise a part of their day.  Some of them are really into group fitness because it's a thing they do with their friends.   A lot of them work fitness into their vacations.

I am an engineer who works with engineers, so yes - a large number of my cohort are goal-setters.  However, living where I do I have met a lot of lovely people who are far more laid back.  Perhaps for some, goal setting was never a thing.  For others, it's *too much* of a thing.  Imagine if you are goal setter and you are someone who loves running.  But then you age, and get injured.  You have to stop chasing PRs, or at least adjust them to "my over 50 PR".  You may have to adjust your expected distances downward.  I know many who have had to quit running, but still cycle.  Then they had to change their cycling habits from "as fast as I can" to "well, as far as I can" or "until my body conks out on me."  (Which seems to be the thing, particularly in my friends who are in their late 50s, 60s, and 70s.)

[GuitarStv]

You always have to have some sort of goal though, and you need to be able to see if you're meeting that goal.

Your stated goal is to not see decline.  If you start out running 5k in twenty minutes, and several years later you're running 5k in 40 minutes there has been a significant decline in your health.  You will be burning fewer net calories (because your metabolism will not be as elevated post-workout) so won't be able to eat the occasional cookie and pizza without feeling the effects more.  Your muscles are not being utilized as well as they were, so you'll get gradually weaker and less healthy.  You'll get to a point where you start to feel wrecked when going for a bike ride or after walking around all day.

This is why so many people talk about their metabolism slowing down when they hit a particular age.  They feel like they're still working hard, but have gradually been letting the foot off the gas . . . and just never measured what was going on so it catches them by surprise.

Uh, the metabolism does slow down as you age.  Mostly due to activity and muscle, but also due to hormone and general body function.

And usually people also slow down too, due to aging issues with joints and such.  For me, the aches and pains started at 39.5.  Meaning: more injuries, more time to recover from injuries, less total time and/or intensity due to the possibility of injuries.  (Using running as an example - keeping on top of your joints is not terribly hard in your 20's.  As you age though - stretching, foam rolling, hip and core work, all become much more necessary in order to prevent injury.   Going from age 30 to 40 doesn't mean you suddenly have an extra 1-2 hours a week to put towards that.   So if you are getting 3 hours of exercise total a week, then you just subtracted 1-2 hours of running for "injury prevention".)

But on the goal thing...no, you don't really "need" a goal.  YOU need a goal.  I'd be willing to bet that personality-wise, MANY mustachians like goals (ahem, looking in the mirror here).  But I have many friends who are healthy and happy without any kind of "goal".  They do lots of things - walk, run, hike, bike to work, lift weights, meet with a trainer, race, do triathlons, do yoga.  And...they have no particular goal to strive for.  They like being fit, they've made exercise a part of their day.  Some of them are really into group fitness because it's a thing they do with their friends.   A lot of them work fitness into their vacations.

I am an engineer who works with engineers, so yes - a large number of my cohort are goal-setters.  However, living where I do I have met a lot of lovely people who are far more laid back.  Perhaps for some, goal setting was never a thing.  For others, it's *too much* of a thing.  Imagine if you are goal setter and you are someone who loves running.  But then you age, and get injured.  You have to stop chasing PRs, or at least adjust them to "my over 50 PR".  You may have to adjust your expected distances downward.  I know many who have had to quit running, but still cycle.  Then they had to change their cycling habits from "as fast as I can" to "well, as far as I can" or "until my body conks out on me."  (Which seems to be the thing, particularly in my friends who are in their late 50s, 60s, and 70s.)

I think you're interpreting the term 'goal' a bit too narrowly.  Everyone has some sort of goal for every action they do.  If you have no goal whatsoever regarding exercise, then why are you wasting time exercising?

Absolutely, goals need to change over time though.

[SilveradoBojangles]

But I have many friends who are healthy and happy without any kind of "goal".  They do lots of things - walk, run, hike, bike to work, lift weights, meet with a trainer, race, do triathlons, do yoga.  And...they have no particular goal to strive for.  They like being fit, they've made exercise a part of their day.  Some of them are really into group fitness because it's a thing they do with their friends.   A lot of them work fitness into their vacations.

Yes, this is me! We just did a week long cycling trip on our vacation! I just like moving around, so I go for walks and runs and bike and attend fitness classes. No goals (other than to do some kind of exercise every day, even if it's just going for a walk because thats all I can manage).

[runbikerun]

Ever seen a runner whos older than 50 and been doing it for a while?  They look beat. Can you say free radicle damage? How many times have you heard of a runner dying of a heart attack?  Many times.  It's because the heart, like any muscle, needs to be stimulated but not annihilated.

I don't want to be dismissive, but...this is nonsense. I'm in a running club and there's a swathe of older runners who've been there for decades. They're in excellent shape. And the random assertion regarding heart attacks is completely unsupported, and flatly contradicted by the research, which strongly correlated running with a heavily reduced risk of heart disease.

[ReadySetMillionaire]

I'm not an expert at any of this, but I have gone down from 199.6 pounds (very specifically remember ALMOST being 200 pounds) to 180.  I'm actually at 186 currently after a lot of traveling this summer, but working my way back down and actually trying to get to 175.  But here's my two cents, and echoing what others have posted:

(1) Do two active things per day for 30 minutes. Create a menu of things YOU like doing. Not other people. YOU.  I hate running, going to the gym, and online fitness coaches.  So I don't do them.  My menu is basically this:

-Walking around the neighborhood
-Walking during lunch
-Hiking at local park
-Lifting at home
-Elliptical
-Yardwork
-House chores/home improvement projects
-Golfing (walk with clubs burns a TON of calories)

There's enough variety here that I don't get bored, and for a lot of it (walking with your SO, golfing, home improvement), a lot of it doesn't even feel like fitness.

(2) Don't eat like an idiot.  If you're a competent adult you know what's good for you and what's not.  Sure, this type of carb may be better than that type of carb (e.g., lentils vs. pasta), but just don't binge, and avoid the stuff that is glaringly obviously bad for you (fast food, pizza, etc.).  Try to eat well six out of seven days a week. Not perfect, but well. 

(3) Contrary to popular advice, I find the weekends to be the absolute best time to have great days.  There's all the time in the world for exercise and you can cook some pretty good meals.  You'd probably be shocked how much house chores and projects burn calories. I walked 18 holes last Sunday and that burned something like 1,600 calories.

Basically, like PERSONAL finance, fitness and wellness are personal.  The marketing around all of it is designed to make you feel inadequate.  But just do things you enjoy and eat in moderation and you'll be alright.

[MDfive21]

joe rogan podcasts are pretty informative re fitness.  he hosts a lot of fighters, fitness and diet experts etc so there's always some new info to be gained.  he asks most of his guests what they're eating just to get a feel for what they do to be the way they are.

ben greenfield does all sorts of wacky shit and writes, podcasts about it.
tim ferris.

[Greyweld]

To me, the baby steps are just the order in which you allocate your money to build wealth. I imagine that in terms of debts and savings/investments, debt is extra weight and investments is fitness ability such as cardio endurance and muscle mass.

First you evaluate where you are and make a budget. So figuring out how much weight you have to lose and your baseline stats such as heart rate, cholesterol, blood pressure, bmi, bf%, etc, then figure out your "budget" of calories and what kinds of things will let you come in under your budget. Give every dollar a job == give every calorie a job, so maybe this means counting macros as well.

Next is the emergency fund. With the analogy of savings = fitness ability, I think this is just establishing a low baseline of activity that you can do and maintain. Maybe making sure you can walk a mile or five miles or something.

Then, you eliminate debt/lose weight. Ramsey encourages not having any fun and eating rice and beans, no vacations, no luxuries. For weight loss, this would be only nutritious foods, no desserts, no sugar, no alcohol, no cheat days, and not even too much of anything you technically need. Focus on just this until you are within your target weight for your height. If your "income" (TDEE) is very low and you can't cut your "expenses" (calorie consumption) enough to make a dent, then the recommendation is to increase your income, which I think would just be any exercise that increases your caloric needs.

Every step beyond that is then equivalent to building fitness. I don't think the method by which you work for the income to build wealth/fitness really matters. Dave Ramsey doesn't say "and now you should become a CEO so you can really build your wealth!" You could be building wealth as an accountant as a secretary or a car salesman or an engineer. You can build your fitness by running, lifting weights, doing karate or climbing rocks.

A big key at this stage is to make sure you never go back into debt, or never gain back weight over your healthy range. You can actually spend/eat more than before, because you aren't in debt/overweight and therefore don't need a calorie deficit, but don't overall spend beyond your calorie needs.

It's hard to equate anything fitness-wise in particular with investments, because while building muscle can help increase your calorie budget at rest, once you build a little muscle it doesn't continue to grow if you stop putting effort into it the way an investment account would over time.

[LiveLean]

Dave Ramsey: Avoid debt. Don't by crap and don't buy anything you can't pay for with cash.

Fitness Equivalent: Don't eat crap. Move your body.

[SweetTPi]

Which leads me to my question, is there a good "Dave Ramsey" like equivalent in the personal health/fitness area? Something that might not be optimal but consistently gets people some results if they just do it - and is designed in a way which focuses on the behavioral change way like how FPU does?

For a program to follow, you could check out Nerd Fitness if the theme interests you.  Part of the Academy program really focuses on the mental aspects needed to make the changes and stick with them.  There's a nutrition section, and a workout section as well with demonstration videos.  Also, a 'quest' section, so you can get inspiration to try something new.  (FWIW, my recommendation is neutral- it all depends on how well you stick with the program, no matter what program it is.)

[mm1970]

Ever seen a runner whos older than 50 and been doing it for a while?  They look beat. Can you say free radicle damage? How many times have you heard of a runner dying of a heart attack?  Many times.  It's because the heart, like any muscle, needs to be stimulated but not annihilated.

I don't want to be dismissive, but...this is nonsense. I'm in a running club and there's a swathe of older runners who've been there for decades. They're in excellent shape. And the random assertion regarding heart attacks is completely unsupported, and flatly contradicted by the research, which strongly correlated running with a heavily reduced risk of heart disease.

It would be interesting to see some statistics on the percentage of runners that stick with it, vs "drop out" as they age.

If you are out there running, you see the folks who stick with it, not the ones who quit.

[PJC74]

my fitness pals would call running a terrible "invention"

I wouldn't go that far, but if you are doing it for overall fitness, it's very suboptimal to other forms of exercise.

Puts way too much stress on your heart and joints. Very catabolic to muscles, too.

Take a look at a sprinter's body and a runner's body, 9 out 10 folks will choose the sprinter's body comp.

If you enjoy running, by all means, go for it. It's better than sitting on the couch.

[mm1970]

my fitness pals would call running a terrible "invention"

I wouldn't go that far, but if you are doing it for overall fitness, it's very suboptimal to other forms of exercise.

Puts way too much stress on your heart and joints. Very catabolic to muscles, too.

Take a look at a sprinter's body and a runner's body, 9 out 10 folks will choose the sprinter's body comp.

If you enjoy running, by all means, go for it. It's better than sitting on the couch.

I think there are likely just body types that are better for running than others.  Maybe I'm being naive, but you know ... I'm a runner.

I look around at the running folks around here.  The ones that run ultras, or marathons, or half marathons or 5ks.  I know who the top ones are - I see their names, and I see their faces.

Lean and narrow-hipped.  Ropy. Some of that is related to running, and some of that is related to genetics I suppose.  Some are tall, but many are not.  There's a "look", so to speak.

I do not have that look.  I am short, and stocky.  Wide hips, big thighs and calves.  I was searching for running shorts (as opposed to tights, because it's hot), and the favorite brand around town?  I literally could not buy shorts from them because their largest size has a hip size of 40.  My hips are 41 inches.  I am at a healthy weight, these hips have pushed out two babies, they are NOT getting any smaller.

So, probably not unexpectedly, with this body composition - I am not fast.  I am not built for running - certainly not for distance.  I wonder why I do distance - I don't much like it, but I think it's because I like the group comraderie, and goal-setting aspect.

So I guess what I'm getting at is - I'd agree that running probably isn't the best exercise for everyone.  It probably is good for a lot of people (what distance is good can be argued).  It's not great for my joints (though regular hip/core work and going mostly uphill helps).  I am starting to wonder if it is good for my heart - I recently bought a watch with a built in HR monitor - turns out that when I run, my heart rate gets to be above 190, and pretty quickly.

[runbikerun]

my fitness pals would call running a terrible "invention"

I wouldn't go that far, but if you are doing it for overall fitness, it's very suboptimal to other forms of exercise.

Puts way too much stress on your heart and joints. Very catabolic to muscles, too.

Again, this is completely unsupported by the evidence. Large-cohort studies tend to show that runners are less likely than others to suffer heart disease. And to trigger a catabolic state through running, you'd need to be running a huge amount of miles at an extremely tough pace, and also eating a diet almost completely devoid of protein. This is half-assed bro-science devoid of actual supporting evidence.

[Kyle Schuant]

Most people don't want to "start small" with fitness, they want big results fast, even though just like with personal finance, health and fitness is a lifetime game, not a one time fix.  I actually can't think of anyone who is focused on lifetime health and fitness through a series of baby steps, but I think that's a fabulous idea.  Another big problem is that no one really agrees on the basics at this point.

People do indeed often want big results fast, and those who the ones who fail. I work as a trainer, and I was discussing this with a woman who's done karate for years. She said the ones who really wanted a black belt did one grading, said, "and how many more before black?!" and were never seen again. The ones who got to black belt were those who enjoyed the process of learning the movements and the thing's history and all that. And it's the same in the kitchen (where much of what people want from "fitness" will happen) and the gym.

There is indeed a lot of argument about what's ideal in exercise and diet. However, while the gurus argue about many things, they also agree on many things. It's the 80/20 rule once again: 80% of the results you can get will come from 20% of the things you could do. And there is broad agreement on that 20%. If you care just about health (as opposed to sports performance), then it is, in order:

1. Have friends. In one study of people after heart attacks looking at who survived the next 12 months, the biggest predictors were if the stopped smoking and if they had friends. Family, church and the like count, too. If you don't have friends, find some who already live the rest of this list.
2. If smoking, stop. That shit kills you. You know this, we've known since 1610 when James I of England wrote a little pamphlet saying, "the tobbac doth suck."
3. Eat more fresh fruit and vegies. "But the sugar in fruit -" "You see that 500lb guy? You think he got that way from eating too many mangoes?"
4. Eat less junk food. "What's junk food?" "You know this: any food where the packet is more colourful than the contents."
5. Eat more meat, fish, dairy and beans. "But cholesterol -" "Okay, more fish." "But fishstock depletion -" "Okay, more beans." "They upset my belly." "Please go."
6. Drink less booze. "But I only have a few." "Uh yep. Write it down for a week and see."
7. Walk 10,000 steps a day, most of them outside. From studies, the health benefits seem to level out at about 8,000, but if you aim high and just get 80% of it you'll still be good, plus most people's steps won't be very vigorous - there are steps and then there are steps. Obviously, you might choose the equivalent in running or some social sport. Running is fine, it's just that most people start too hard; a 240lb guy doesn't need to start with trying to run 5 miles on day one. We say "outside" because of for example Seasonal Affective Disorder and many other issues - there's something about fresh air, sunshine and being among grass and trees that helps people in a way the equivalent amount of walking on a treadmill inside wouldn't do.

As a barbell coach I should mention lifting, and I do think it makes a difference - but I look for a list of things everyone agrees on. If you shop this list around to the many and various gurus, and more importantly to doctors, you will find there's little or nothing they'll disagree with, though everyone might have quibbles so they can justify their guru status.

I suppose nobody can follow this because I didn't write it in a book and appear on a bunch of tv and radio shows. But that's all bullshit. It's not that complicated.

There you go. Now go do it.

[Raenia]

I know the OP did mention weight loss, but I really wish society would stop conflating weight loss with fitness.  A person can be thin without being fit, and a different person can be heavier than recommended but in good health (not talking about fat/obese, some people are just 'big-boned,' stocky, muscular, etc).

For example, I've been thin all my life, and hover on the far low end of 'healthy weight.'  The healthiest I've ever felt was in college, when I joined a sport for the first time and gained 15 lbs, most of it muscle.  What did people say when they saw me?  "Hey, have you gained weight?  You should exercise more and lose it.  Freshman 15, amirite?"  After graduating, I lost all that muscle very quickly, am now acceptably thin again, and am plagued with lightheadedness and prone to fainting.  I'd love to find an exercise regime that would help me gain that weight back, but all the programs are geared toward weight loss, aka the last thing I need.  "Fitness is easy, just move more and eat less!"  Sure, if I want to start passing out all the time.

In contrast, my sister has always been on the heavier side, overweight by most calculations.  However, that doesn't stop her from being stronger, faster, and having better endurance than me.  She's significantly more fit, not just in spite of her weight, but in part because of it.

There is indeed a lot of argument about what's ideal in exercise and diet. However, while the gurus argue about many things, they also agree on many things. It's the 80/20 rule once again: 80% of the results you can get will come from 20% of the things you could do. And there is broad agreement on that 20%. If you care just about health (as opposed to sports performance), then it is, in order:

1. Have friends. In one study of people after heart attacks looking at who survived the next 12 months, the biggest predictors were if the stopped smoking and if they had friends. Family, church and the like count, too. If you don't have friends, find some who already live the rest of this list.
2. If smoking, stop. That shit kills you. You know this, we've known since 1610 when James I of England wrote a little pamphlet saying, "the tobbac doth suck."
3. Eat more fresh fruit and vegies. "But the sugar in fruit -" "You see that 500lb guy? You think he got that way from eating too many mangoes?"
4. Eat less junk food. "What's junk food?" "You know this: any food where the packet is more colourful than the contents."
5. Eat more meat, fish, dairy and beans. "But cholesterol -" "Okay, more fish." "But fishstock depletion -" "Okay, more beans." "They upset my belly." "Please go."
6. Drink less booze. "But I only have a few." "Uh yep. Write it down for a week and see."
7. Walk 10,000 steps a day, most of them outside. From studies, the health benefits seem to level out at about 8,000, but if you aim high and just get 80% of it you'll still be good, plus most people's steps won't be very vigorous - there are steps and then there are steps. Obviously, you might choose the equivalent in running or some social sport. Running is fine, it's just that most people start too hard; a 240lb guy doesn't need to start with trying to run 5 miles on day one. We say "outside" because of for example Seasonal Affective Disorder and many other issues - there's something about fresh air, sunshine and being among grass and trees that helps people in a way the equivalent amount of walking on a treadmill inside wouldn't do.

I suppose nobody can follow this because I didn't write it in a book and appear on a bunch of tv and radio shows. But that's all bullshit. It's not that complicated.

(snipped to focus on the bits I wanted)

I do all those things, and while they do contribute to health, they definitely aren't enough to make me healthy, much less fit.  Any additional suggestions, based on the above?  I'm trying to ride my bike more, but I'm prone to get lightheaded and tend to be dehydrated as well, so I'm having a hard time with it.  I've tried bodyweight exercises, but they don't seem to help with the weight gain, and I have trouble sticking with it for longer than a few months without outside pressure.

[wenchsenior]

I know the OP did mention weight loss, but I really wish society would stop conflating weight loss with fitness.  A person can be thin without being fit, and a different person can be heavier than recommended but in good health (not talking about fat/obese, some people are just 'big-boned,' stocky, muscular, etc).

For example, I've been thin all my life, and hover on the far low end of 'healthy weight.'  The healthiest I've ever felt was in college, when I joined a sport for the first time and gained 15 lbs, most of it muscle.  What did people say when they saw me?  "Hey, have you gained weight?  You should exercise more and lose it.  Freshman 15, amirite?"  After graduating, I lost all that muscle very quickly, am now acceptably thin again, and am plagued with lightheadedness and prone to fainting.  I'd love to find an exercise regime that would help me gain that weight back, but all the programs are geared toward weight loss, aka the last thing I need.  "Fitness is easy, just move more and eat less!"  Sure, if I want to start passing out all the time.

In contrast, my sister has always been on the heavier side, overweight by most calculations.  However, that doesn't stop her from being stronger, faster, and having better endurance than me.  She's significantly more fit, not just in spite of her weight, but in part because of it.

There is indeed a lot of argument about what's ideal in exercise and diet. However, while the gurus argue about many things, they also agree on many things. It's the 80/20 rule once again: 80% of the results you can get will come from 20% of the things you could do. And there is broad agreement on that 20%. If you care just about health (as opposed to sports performance), then it is, in order:

1. Have friends. In one study of people after heart attacks looking at who survived the next 12 months, the biggest predictors were if the stopped smoking and if they had friends. Family, church and the like count, too. If you don't have friends, find some who already live the rest of this list.
2. If smoking, stop. That shit kills you. You know this, we've known since 1610 when James I of England wrote a little pamphlet saying, "the tobbac doth suck."
3. Eat more fresh fruit and vegies. "But the sugar in fruit -" "You see that 500lb guy? You think he got that way from eating too many mangoes?"
4. Eat less junk food. "What's junk food?" "You know this: any food where the packet is more colourful than the contents."
5. Eat more meat, fish, dairy and beans. "But cholesterol -" "Okay, more fish." "But fishstock depletion -" "Okay, more beans." "They upset my belly." "Please go."
6. Drink less booze. "But I only have a few." "Uh yep. Write it down for a week and see."
7. Walk 10,000 steps a day, most of them outside. From studies, the health benefits seem to level out at about 8,000, but if you aim high and just get 80% of it you'll still be good, plus most people's steps won't be very vigorous - there are steps and then there are steps. Obviously, you might choose the equivalent in running or some social sport. Running is fine, it's just that most people start too hard; a 240lb guy doesn't need to start with trying to run 5 miles on day one. We say "outside" because of for example Seasonal Affective Disorder and many other issues - there's something about fresh air, sunshine and being among grass and trees that helps people in a way the equivalent amount of walking on a treadmill inside wouldn't do.

I suppose nobody can follow this because I didn't write it in a book and appear on a bunch of tv and radio shows. But that's all bullshit. It's not that complicated.

(snipped to focus on the bits I wanted)

I do all those things, and while they do contribute to health, they definitely aren't enough to make me healthy, much less fit.  Any additional suggestions, based on the above?  I'm trying to ride my bike more, but I'm prone to get lightheaded and tend to be dehydrated as well, so I'm having a hard time with it.  I've tried bodyweight exercises, but they don't seem to help with the weight gain, and I have trouble sticking with it for longer than a few months without outside pressure.

I have similar issues, at least since I hit 40.  Because of an endrocrine/insulin disorder, I already eat very healthy, and have for about 15 years (tons of veggies, low sugar and carbs).   But I've always been prone to being quite slender, which looked good on me in my 20s, but sure doesn't so much now in middle age when it easily translates to gaunt.  I struggle to keep weight on and have to check every day to make sure I don't drop too low.

Unfortunately, I've found only two things that make me reliably gain weight: lifting weights and eating sugar/carbs.  I can't do the second one, and I dislike the first, but I try to do it anyway.

[ender]

I ordered P90X, some bands, and a pull-up bar on Amazon.

Thanks folks for all the input here!

[Kyle Schuant]

I'd love to find an exercise regime that would help me gain that weight back, but all the programs are geared toward weight loss, aka the last thing I need.  [...]

I do all those things, and while they do contribute to health, they definitely aren't enough to make me healthy, much less fit.  Any additional suggestions, based on the above?

This is a common issue, I have trained many women and a few women to gain healthy useful bodyweight. You need progressive resistance training and a protein-dominated caloric surplus. Message me on FB and I will help you.

[MrMathMustache]

I ordered P90X, some bands, and a pull-up bar on Amazon.

Thanks folks for all the input here!

Excellent choice - I got into P90X several years ago and it was a great way to incorporate lifting into my workout routine.  As an alternative to bands (which are fine of course), you may want to investigate the bowflex adjustable dumbell set.  Good luck with the program, and stick with it even if plyometrics knocks you on your butt as you will see great progress!

[ender]

Excellent choice - I got into P90X several years ago and it was a great way to incorporate lifting into my workout routine.  As an alternative to bands (which are fine of course), you may want to investigate the bowflex adjustable dumbell set.  Good luck with the program, and stick with it even if plyometrics knocks you on your butt as you will see great progress!

What do you mean "if it knocks me on my butt" - I'm 99.999% sure this program will chew me up and wreck me. :)

[Raenia]

I'd love to find an exercise regime that would help me gain that weight back, but all the programs are geared toward weight loss, aka the last thing I need.  [...]

I do all those things, and while they do contribute to health, they definitely aren't enough to make me healthy, much less fit.  Any additional suggestions, based on the above?

This is a common issue, I have trained many women and a few women to gain healthy useful bodyweight. You need progressive resistance training and a protein-dominated caloric surplus. Message me on FB and I will help you.

I don't use FB, but thanks for the suggestions.  I can certainly try to eat more protein.  We've been trying to do at least 2-3 vegetarian days per week for the budget and sustainability, but I need to be better about substituting enough eggs or dairy on those days. Maybe protein powder too.  I'll look into the resistance training as well.  Thanks!

[partgypsy]

I'd love to find an exercise regime that would help me gain that weight back, but all the programs are geared toward weight loss, aka the last thing I need.  [...]

I do all those things, and while they do contribute to health, they definitely aren't enough to make me healthy, much less fit.  Any additional suggestions, based on the above?

This is a common issue, I have trained many women and a few women to gain healthy useful bodyweight. You need progressive resistance training and a protein-dominated caloric surplus. Message me on FB and I will help you.

I think this is interesting. I tend towards skinny/flabby. The most consistent exercise I get is walking and also dancing to music. A few years ago I did a 8 week cross-fit "light" class. I def liked the direction I was going (a few pounds heavier but more muscle and endurance). What I found interestng, is my typical carb craving turned off and instead I craved protein and therefore ate more of it (eggs instead of cereal for breakfast, tuna instead of pasta for lunch). Now that I'm not doing that high level of exercise, back to my usual cravings. I totally intended on continuing at that higher level, because the actual exercises are simple and the program is straightforward. But unless I am showing up for those classes and having that coach yell, just not going to do it.
During the same time, a group of coworkers a few years ago exercised a couple times a week. But our building has been under renovation so the place we used to exercise is not there. However recently we are weekly meeting at a conference room to at least to a limited meet up. It's only once a week but for me the structure is really helpful (having time, place and others to work out with). 

[mm1970]

I ordered P90X, some bands, and a pull-up bar on Amazon.

Thanks folks for all the input here!

Excellent choice - I got into P90X several years ago and it was a great way to incorporate lifting into my workout routine.  As an alternative to bands (which are fine of course), you may want to investigate the bowflex adjustable dumbell set.  Good luck with the program, and stick with it even if plyometrics knocks you on your butt as you will see great progress!

I just dusted off shoulders and arms this morning.  I do love me some Tony.

[mm1970]

I'd love to find an exercise regime that would help me gain that weight back, but all the programs are geared toward weight loss, aka the last thing I need.  [...]

I do all those things, and while they do contribute to health, they definitely aren't enough to make me healthy, much less fit.  Any additional suggestions, based on the above?

This is a common issue, I have trained many women and a few women to gain healthy useful bodyweight. You need progressive resistance training and a protein-dominated caloric surplus. Message me on FB and I will help you.

I think this is interesting. I tend towards skinny/flabby. The most consistent exercise I get is walking and also dancing to music. A few years ago I did a 8 week cross-fit "light" class. I def liked the direction I was going (a few pounds heavier but more muscle and endurance). What I found interestng, is my typical carb craving turned off and instead I craved protein and therefore ate more of it (eggs instead of cereal for breakfast, tuna instead of pasta for lunch). Now that I'm not doing that high level of exercise, back to my usual cravings. I totally intended on continuing at that higher level, because the actual exercises are simple and the program is straightforward. But unless I am showing up for those classes and having that coach yell, just not going to do it.
During the same time, a group of coworkers a few years ago exercised a couple times a week. But our building has been under renovation so the place we used to exercise is not there. However recently we are weekly meeting at a conference room to at least to a limited meet up. It's only once a week but for me the structure is really helpful (having time, place and others to work out with).

Having a coach, trainer, etc. can really make a difference.

[Kyle Schuant]

I get a lot of people who've "done Starting Strength" for 2-3 years on their own. The women are usually up to squatting 50kg or so, the men 100kg or so. By comparison, the newbies (assuming healthy and under 50yo) who come to us do this in 3 months. Coaching is a multiplier, you get more out of the same time.


Also of interest: 6 and 12 months after people have stopped lifting with us, I follow up to see who's still lifting. Almost nobody is lifting more on their own than they did with us, I'm happy if they're still squatting, pressing and pulling. Anyway, the figures are, by the time they spent with us,


3 months = 10%
6 months = 25%
9 months = 50%
12 months = 90%


So... most people need a certain time with a coach to lift at all regularly, progress at newbie stage will be 1/4 to 1/3 the speed while coached, and almost nobody progresses beyond newbie stage without coaching.


I was surprised when I tallied it up, I'd figured that getting people through the newbie stage of the first 3-6 months would be enough. Ideally I'd just have people for 3 months and then they'd wander off to do it on their own with just the occasional check-in.

Of course, a good gym offers community, too. Recently I asked for reviews, and I'd hoped to hear "OMG Kyle is such an awesome coach" but mostly it was "a friendly and welcoming environment, lots of fun." WTF am I not awesome?! But there it is. So as well as being good for the body, lifting can be good for the soul. It's that first point in the seven I listed for health: have friends.

[ReadySetMillionaire]

Anybody do any of the Beach Body Fitness programs?  My wife subscribed for about $11/month and there are a ton of workout options on there.  Wondering if anybody has had any successes.

[mm1970]

Anybody do any of the Beach Body Fitness programs?  My wife subscribed for about $11/month and there are a ton of workout options on there.  Wondering if anybody has had any successes.

I love Beachbody on Demand.  The programs I've done:

1.  P90X (these are long workouts, so you  need to set aside some serious time)
2.  21 Day Fix (30 minutes a day) - I really liked this one.  It helped me lose the "I had a baby at 42" weight, and it didn't take a ton of time.  Also, it's kind of my "go to" when my husband is traveling and I can't get to my normal track workouts because:kids.  It travels well too.
3.  PiYo.  I did this one once right after 21 day fix, when I was dealing with a knee issue.  Because: no jumping.  Let's just say my coworker told me at the end of this one - that my butt looked awesome.

I've also tested out other workouts here and there for fun.  I enjoy the 3-week yoga retreat workouts and some of the lifting workouts to work in and out of my running.  I've heard great things about 80-day obsession (but again, some of the workouts are long - and I don't know anyone personally who did this while working full time and having 2 kids).

My biggest advice?  Look through the different options, pick one, print out the calendar, and just do it.  I do much better if I write it on the calendar - example, my running days are Tue/Thu/Sat.  If I write down on the calendar that Monday I'll do Upper body, Weds Core, Sunday yoga - then I will actually do it.

[GU]

I get a lot of people who've "done Starting Strength" for 2-3 years on their own. The women are usually up to squatting 50kg or so, the men 100kg or so.

That is pathetically weak for 2-3 years of training. Sheesh!

[h82goslw]

I'm personally very fond of this free site:

www.darebee.com.

Free, all the time, forever.  I do toss them a few bones here and there.    The community is supportive and the workouts are a lot of fun.

So I checked out this site....and it’s great. Did my first workout this morning and loved it.  Great stuff for beginners and the very experienced.  Thanks for sharing. 

[GuitarStv]

I get a lot of people who've "done Starting Strength" for 2-3 years on their own. The women are usually up to squatting 50kg or so, the men 100kg or so.

That is pathetically weak for 2-3 years of training. Sheesh!

It's not possible to do Starting Strength for 2 - 3 years and remain at that level.  The weight increases go up so quickly that most people have to stop the program from 3 - 6 months.

[h82goslw]

my fitness pals would call running a terrible "invention"

I wouldn't go that far, but if you are doing it for overall fitness, it's very suboptimal to other forms of exercise.

Puts way too much stress on your heart and joints. Very catabolic to muscles, too.

Again, this is completely unsupported by the evidence. Large-cohort studies tend to show that runners are less likely than others to suffer heart disease. And to trigger a catabolic state through running, you'd need to be running a huge amount of miles at an extremely tough pace, and also eating a diet almost completely devoid of protein. This is half-assed bro-science devoid of actual supporting evidence.

I totally agree with runbikerun.....running is excellent exercise, when taking a balanced approach. I weigh about 230 pounds and run 6 miles every Sunday morning and 5 miles one other day during the week.    I spend 2 other days a week weight lifting...heavy bench press, squats etc. if I have time for a 5th day of exercise,  I’ll do a cross-fit type workout.  Muscle development is not lacking in anyway.   I constantly get comments about how I look and I feel fantastic.  I’ve run for years and will continue to do so as long as it feels right and isn’t negatively affecting my joints.

[SimplyG]

I think MMM's blog actually does a pretty good job covering the basics.

Barbell training is by far the most efficient form of strength training and also relatively cheap to do in your own home if you have the space.  The foundation of any barbell training program should be squats, deadlifts, and a bench/overhead press.  There are an unlimited number of routines to choose from.  Stronglifts 5x5, Starting Strength, and MuscleForLife are all very popular and good.

Cardio/conditioning should come from cycling, walking, or other forms of actual transportation.

[chaskavitch]

I get a lot of people who've "done Starting Strength" for 2-3 years on their own. The women are usually up to squatting 50kg or so, the men 100kg or so.

That is pathetically weak for 2-3 years of training. Sheesh!

It's not possible to do Starting Strength for 2 - 3 years and remain at that level.  The weight increases go up so quickly that most people have to stop the program from 3 - 6 months.

Yes - I'm not sure if you're talking about 1RM or working weight, but I got to 225 lbs for my working weight (3 sets of 5) after spending maybe 1 month really focused on form, and then ramping up the weight for the next couple of months. My 1RM max after about a year of self-teaching was 285 lbs. Would it have been higher with a coach? Probably, if for no other reason than I really would've done 3x week instead of sometimes missing and, of course, being very cautious with how hard I push myself when working alone in a basement!

Agreed.  I've been doing Starting Strength for about a month and a half, and I've leveled out this last week at 110 lbs for working weight with front squats, not even back squats.  I've slowed down mostly because my knees crack a lot even with sleeves and it freaks me out.  I'm still bumping up my weights incrementally and making progress, so 50kg after 2 years for ladies seems a little crazy.

[GuitarStv]

I get a lot of people who've "done Starting Strength" for 2-3 years on their own. The women are usually up to squatting 50kg or so, the men 100kg or so.

That is pathetically weak for 2-3 years of training. Sheesh!

It's not possible to do Starting Strength for 2 - 3 years and remain at that level.  The weight increases go up so quickly that most people have to stop the program from 3 - 6 months.

Yes - I'm not sure if you're talking about 1RM or working weight, but I got to 225 lbs for my working weight (3 sets of 5) after spending maybe 1 month really focused on form, and then ramping up the weight for the next couple of months. My 1RM max after about a year of self-teaching was 285 lbs. Would it have been higher with a coach? Probably, if for no other reason than I really would've done 3x week instead of sometimes missing and, of course, being very cautious with how hard I push myself when working alone in a basement!

Agreed.  I've been doing Starting Strength for about a month and a half, and I've leveled out this last week at 110 lbs for working weight with front squats, not even back squats.  I've slowed down mostly because my knees crack a lot even with sleeves and it freaks me out.  I'm still bumping up my weights incrementally and making progress, so 50kg after 2 years for ladies seems a little crazy.

As a general rule you shouldn't really use sleeves on your knees when front squatting.

[chaskavitch]

I get a lot of people who've "done Starting Strength" for 2-3 years on their own. The women are usually up to squatting 50kg or so, the men 100kg or so.

That is pathetically weak for 2-3 years of training. Sheesh!

It's not possible to do Starting Strength for 2 - 3 years and remain at that level.  The weight increases go up so quickly that most people have to stop the program from 3 - 6 months.

Yes - I'm not sure if you're talking about 1RM or working weight, but I got to 225 lbs for my working weight (3 sets of 5) after spending maybe 1 month really focused on form, and then ramping up the weight for the next couple of months. My 1RM max after about a year of self-teaching was 285 lbs. Would it have been higher with a coach? Probably, if for no other reason than I really would've done 3x week instead of sometimes missing and, of course, being very cautious with how hard I push myself when working alone in a basement!

Agreed.  I've been doing Starting Strength for about a month and a half, and I've leveled out this last week at 110 lbs for working weight with front squats, not even back squats.  I've slowed down mostly because my knees crack a lot even with sleeves and it freaks me out.  I'm still bumping up my weights incrementally and making progress, so 50kg after 2 years for ladies seems a little crazy.

As a general rule you shouldn't really use sleeves on your knees when front squatting.

I did not know that.  Why? 

I was consistently having sciatic pain the day after doing any squatting, so I started using the sleeves and I feel like it's helped a lot. If there's a good reason I shouldn't be using them, though, I'd like to know.

[GuitarStv]

If you're having sciatic pain the day after doing squatting, it's likely the movement.  You need to drop the weight, correct the movement, and then gradually increase the weight again.  Throwing knee sleeves on might let you lift with bad form without pain for a while, but what will happen is that you'll eventually increase the weight to a point where it doesn't work . . . and then you'll hurt yourself badly.

[chaskavitch]

I did also drop the weight a lot and switch to front squats from back, because I felt like I was better at keeping my form with front squats, so that may be what fixed the sciatic pain rather than the sleeves. 

Are you just universally not a fan of knee sleeves, or is it for front squat specifically?

[GuitarStv]

Generally, you should avoid external braces when lifting weight except maybe when doing your hardest set.  They will allow you to lift more, but will prevent your body from developing the stabilizing muscles that help prevent injury.

[chaskavitch]

Fair enough.  I definitely went through a phase when I first started lifting where I was like "I need gloves!  I need wrist wraps!  All the things!", but the sleeves are the only thing I use now.  My knee doesn't hurt when I'm actually lifting, but it makes some truly disturbing rice crispy noises, even when I'm going up the stairs.  I've had it looked at, and the doctor said there was nothing actually wrong with it, so theoretically I'm not exacerbating an injury by squatting. 

I realize we're getting super off topic for this thread, but do you have any recommendations for exercises to strengthen smaller muscles that support the knees?  I do squats, deadlift, walking lunges, split squats, occasionally hamstring curls and quad extensions, and I ride my bike a few times a week.  I try to stick to bigger lifts to get more work done in less time, since I often lift over lunch or my toddler's nap, so I don't usually do many accessory lifts.

[GuitarStv]

What you're describing should be plenty of good exercises to strengthen the muscles around your knees.  Knee problems can be tricky though.

Often times knee problems are exacerbated by inflexibility issues and then poor movement patterns that result.  Make sure your hamstrings, hip flexors, adductors, iliotibial bands, quads, and calf muscles are regularly (should be at least every other day) being stretched.  Make sure that you do a good warm up before you move on to lifting any kind of serious weight - This is especially important if you're time crunched and prone to skipping the warm up.  (If you're doing squats, at a minimum start with a couple sets at bodyweight, then a set with just the bar, then start loading stuff in small increments up to your working weight.)

[SnackDog]

Dave Ramsey of Fitness?  That's easy!

[Kyle Schuant]

The OP's question has, I think, been given a few different and good answers, so I don't feel guilty about this thread derail.

I get a lot of people who've "done Starting Strength" for 2-3 years on their own. The women are usually up to squatting 50kg or so, the men 100kg or so.

It's not possible to do Starting Strength for 2 - 3 years and remain at that level.  The weight increases go up so quickly that most people have to stop the program from 3 - 6 months.

Notice the quotation marks. I'm reporting what they told me. When we delve into their journals, if they (rarely) have one, or more commonly their memory, what we usually see is: started the weights too high, got stuck, stopped for a month, started again, got elbow tendonitis, stopped for six weeks, started again, got hip flexor tendonitis, stopped for a bit, built up, got scared of the grind and "backed off to work on form", and so on.

This is indeed not doing the Starting Strength novice progression. But they tell me "I was doing Starting Strength for 2-3 years." Likewise: power cleans are in the programme, but almost nobody does power cleans on their own. More similar insights in this article - like I said, most people start too high and give up early on, etc.

For example, someone in this thread reports squatting 225 after a month and 285 after 12 months. If after a year he'd done 405 then 225 after a month makes sense, he's just a talented guy, maybe a 250lb Samoan or something. But if after a month he gets 80% as far as he got in 12 months, then he started too high. This is no slight on the guy, it's a very common issue - because the book, the site etc don't specify the starting weights. It'd be better to just err on the side of caution and say "start with the empty bar, add 5lbs a time", then you hit 285 in 4 months instead of 12 (because you got no injuries and took no breaks) and will find you can surpass it.

But it's hard to persuade a young male to start with the empty bar. It's also hard to persuade them to stick with training once the weight gets heavy and there's a grind; women stick with it better. In my gym they do 3 month terms. 2/3 of the women but only 1/3 the men go for a second or later term. They hit around a 120kg squat and say something like one of the following:

"Actually I'd like to work on my cardio."
"Work's getting pretty busy."
"I need to spend more time with my family."
"The commute is getting hard."

These are all legitimate concerns. Cardio is important, we have to work, family comes first always, and I hate commuting so much I work from my garage and was actually upset yesterday that I had to walk the 20 steps in the rain. But... when they squatted 60kg they didn't care about cardio, work was fine, they were happy to ignore their family, and the commute wasn't an issue. Now it's 120kg these are all serious issues. Funny that.

Hardly anyone goes further on their own uncoached than they do in 3 months in our gym. And just generally, not many people go further than they got in 6 months - by that stage you need to be pretty dedicated to it all, have no interruptions due to holiday or work or sickness, etc - progress is for the truly dedicated and lucky. I know you don't get this impression from trainer websites, apparently everyone's squatting 400lbs in 3 months. Well, it's like this: for every 6 people I train,

1 will get awesome results, like the woman who squatted 115kg in her first 3 months
1 will get shit results, like the guy who squatted 100kg after 12 months
4 will get mediocre results, like the women squatting in the 60s kgs after 3 months.

Guess which one we trainers will talk about on the website, and which ones we try not to mention? And if you're a weight loss trainer you talk about the 400lb guy who ended up with sixpack abs, you don't talk about the 300lb guy who's now 350lbs. Now, I talk about them all, but I'm terrible at marketing.

Reality. Sorry, but there it is.

Anyway, with coaching any healthy woman under 50 can in 3 months squat 60, bench 40 and deadlift 80kg, and the guys can do 100/75/120. If they have zero physical activity history, eat badly and miss some sessions then they might do them as heavy singles, if they have some training history, eat well and show up all the time no matter what then they do 10-20% more.  And you know, that's actually not bad if you're just lifting for health. You don't need to squat 400lbs for your health, past 225 or so you do it just because you like it.


On their own the 3 months becomes 2-3 years - for the few who keep lifting that long. The world is full of people who used to squat 500lbs until they took an arrow to the knee. 

[Raenia]

The world is full of people who used to squat 500lbs until they took an arrow to the knee.

Thank you for that, you made my morning :)