Author Topic: Whaddya do if some store/vendor/contractor demands more $ than was agreed upon?  (Read 4246 times)

ObviouslyNotAGolfer

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Many years ago, when I was under 25, I rented a car from an agency whose name shall remain *cough* DOLLAR *cough*. They were one of a handful of agencies renting to under-25 drivers. When we arrived at HELL A X to drop the car off, they demanded more than double what I agreed to (pre-internet days--only a phone conversation/confo number). After arguing about this for about ten minutes, they would not budge, and we needed to get in the shuttle bus to get to the airport so as not to miss our flight. So, I signed the cc thing and we went on our way. I had to spend a week afterward fighting them on the phone to FINALLY get my money back. Of course, they didn't believe me, but did admit that the person who took the reservation was a dumbass (likely not nearly as dumb as their executives) who had since been fired for incompetence.

(In my experience, the rental car agencies are among the LOWEST of the low, and will mercilessly prey on any inexperienced driver/renter, and will do anything to sow FUD to screw you for extended coverage, etc. They don't bother me anymore, because I am older, much more assertive, and much richer than previously.)

I have not had such a problem since, and am scrupulous about getting things in writing, saving online receipts, using my (cash back rewards) Citibank and Amex cards for most large transactions. The experience left me paranoid for life about this type of thing happening again. Suffice it to say, it is not just the money, but I hate being the victim of corporate theft (i.e., any more than I already am as a citizen of the U.S.)

Recently I heard another alarming story: A woman picked up her car after having new tires installed, and the tire dealership demanded much more than was agreed upon. She protested and threatened to leave without paying (not clear on the details, if she had keys in hand). Apparently the cops were summoned, appeared in a split second, threw her to the ground, cuffed her and carried her away (Guantanamo?)

So, my questions are:

1.) I didn't know the police would intervene in the case of a dispute between a store/vendor/contractor and a customer? Is this usual? Isn't this a civil matter, provided you are not outright shoplifting?

2.) Does the consumer have ANY rights in this case, or do we live in some sort of brutal corporate dictatorship (already know the answer to that one!)??

3.) WHat do you do in such a case? Can you sign your cc receipt as "signed in protest"? Will that have any effect?

4.) What will happen if you just flat-out refuse to sign the cc receipt?

Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2017, 05:00:50 PM by ObviouslyNotAGolfer »

Much Fishing to Do

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It works both ways.  I run a business now and many people either want to negotiate the price afterward the job is done, not pay and its not worth bothering with, or not pay and they file for bankruptcy and therefore they don't have to pay (they are not only not jailed, which would be stupid to do, they don't even have to pay when they do have the money).

What you're realizing is that basically people suck.  People seem to think Corporations suck, but its only cause they are made up of a lot of people that suck, which can be a lot more powerful and therefore a lot more sucky than the one single lonely customer that sucks.  And no, the police sotry below is not normal.  But guess what, its not The Man that sucks, just like its not Corporations that suck, those police were people that sucked.

I know, I suck

MoMan

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... and the tire dealership demanded much more than was agreed upon.

I think I would have demanded that they either settle for the agreed upon amount or return the car to the condition it was in when I brought it in (i.e. go thru the hassle of removing the new tires, locating and reinstalling the old tires and missing out on a sale). My guess is, it would be in their interest to honor the original deal because the alternative is usually more expensive. And of course now, there is Yelp and other widespread review threats.

money_maniac

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Took the car in to get some new run flats at Toyota dealership(not my usual one). Guy quoted me at $225 a tire and I need 2. Fine. Left my car for the saturday afternoon and returned later to get it. Bill is $280 a tire. Woah what the hell. I balk and tell the guy no fucking way I am paying that. He starts feeding me a line of bullshit where he says when he quoted me, he quoted me for the non-run flat versions. Total lie. The difference between run flats and non run flats is more than $60 for these tires. I tell him there is not a chance in hell I am paying $280 for these tires. I got them replaced at my regular dealership couple years ago for $210 each. He disappears for 15 mins. Comes back and tells me they accidentally put the "better" run flats on the car. Tells me he can switch them out (monday since the dealership is about to close) or match the $225 price. Monday is not gonna work. I have him price match- the whole time him and his manager make it seem like they are giving me the fucking world on a gold platter. Get home and take a look at Town Fair Tire. Run flats they put on were more expensive than the usuals but got much worse reviews.

The stuff above happens to me all the time whether  its the car dealership, gym, grocery store,restaurants, rental car places, etc.. Its honestly exhausting to be eagle eyed enough to prevent getting fleeced at least once a month.

mrl

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A few years ago, I went to get 2 new tires, the salesman walked out, examined my existing tires and agreed that I needed 2. We went inside, he quoted me what seemed like a fair price, and I went back to work. After work, I returned, and they told me that they made a mistake and that the size tire I needed were almost $100 more each. They just needed my card to run for the extra. I said NO, you quoted me a price, I expect that price, or you can put my old tires back on and I'll be on my way to find someone to sell me reasonably priced tires. It turns out that since they were deep in the shipping container where they put used tires, nobody wanted option B. I stuck to my guns, and eventually got the tires for the previously agreed upon price.

Mezzie

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Recently we rented a car, got a contract with the exact time we would be returning it and the exact price, including taxes and fees, we would be paying. When we went to return it, they tried to charge us double saying it had gone X hours into the next day. I pointed out we were actually there an hour earlier than we were told to be for the quoted price. They told me the person who quoted it was wrong and, basically, too bad for you. I wouldn't have it. Managers were called, prices were reduced, but not to the original quote. We were stalemated for a bit, but I kept pointing out they had to honor our written, signed contract. Eventually I won, but it was a pain and a half to do so.

paddedhat

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It seems that I'm encountering more of this on the front end of transactions lately. I spent a few minutes on the phone with a local tire chain the other day. The service writer and I agreed that I need to show up the next day to take advantage of a decent discount via store coupons that were expiring. She also a agreed to a price match, per printed company policy. I get there to find the store manager won't accept a price match AND honor his coupons. The match was only $5 a tire, an the coupons added up to $60.  In another recent case I stop at HH Gregg, what I now know to be a pretty slippery national  retailer that is similar to Best Buy. I ask where the kitchen appliance package for $1999 is? The salesman performs a dance, and spews a bunch of bullshit about how it's not available, even though it was heavily promoted in their national advertising. He offers to sell me the same package which is not only higher priced, but come with a factory rebate that reduce the final number to about $75 more than the ad.

I guess I'm older and grumpier than the average sucker, but I'm no longer wasting another minute with this crap. As soon as it's apparent that I'm dealing with a dishonest provider I just say, "thanks, but no."  and head for the door.

golfreak12

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It seems that I'm encountering more of this on the front end of transactions lately. I spent a few minutes on the phone with a local tire chain the other day. The service writer and I agreed that I need to show up the next day to take advantage of a decent discount via store coupons that were expiring. She also a agreed to a price match, per printed company policy. I get there to find the store manager won't accept a price match AND honor his coupons. The match was only $5 a tire, an the coupons added up to $60.  In another recent case I stop at HH Gregg, what I now know to be a pretty slippery national  retailer that is similar to Best Buy. I ask where the kitchen appliance package for $1999 is? The salesman performs a dance, and spews a bunch of bullshit about how it's not available, even though it was heavily promoted in their national advertising. He offers to sell me the same package which is not only higher priced, but come with a factory rebate that reduce the final number to about $75 more than the ad.

I guess I'm older and grumpier than the average sucker, but I'm no longer wasting another minute with this crap. As soon as it's apparent that I'm dealing with a dishonest provider I just say, "thanks, but no."  and head for the door.

I find my experience with HHgreg is a opposite.
I remembered way back before I ever bought anything at HHgreg, they advertised washer/dryer for a great price. Me and the wife drove by one and she nudged me to stop in. I told her they advertised that a few days ago and no chance they would have it. We came in and to my surprised they had it in stock. Bought them on the spot. Been buying our appliances there ever since.

Funny experience on that purchase. It was late before they closed when we stopped in. There were just us and another couple with a baby looking around. A salesman came by and went directly to the other couple. After a few, we looked for someone to help us but couldn't so another salesman from another department came over and helped us.
After telling the salesman we wanted the W/D, he told us we should apply for the CC since we can get 5% off and 0% for 12 months. By this time that other couple already were there trying to get financing but I see that they were having troubles. After 5 mins with us, we got our CC approved and on our way. The other salesman looked at us like "damn, I helped out the wrong couple". Never knew if the other couple got credit or not.

obstinate

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1.) I didn't know the police would intervene in the case of a dispute between a store/vendor/contractor and a customer? Is this usual? Isn't this a civil matter, provided you are not outright shoplifting?
They won't, generally. There is more to this story, either something she's not telling you or a serious rights violation.

baffi piu grandi

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start naming city and state/province  where this is occurring. 

I purchase at least 1 set of tires/yr. 5 drivers in the family, the girls ask for my help/drive along.

I go to Costco or Sam's Club to shop what i require(brand/model/size), I then know my baseline OTD price/warranties/ free repair and free balance and free rotation.

remember the little things in life add up, oil change place wants (its)only $9.95 for rotation; well if tires last 50,000 miles and you rotate every 5000 miles that only $9.95 adds up to a wasted $100 and don't forget several balances a tire repair in there,ding,ding ding.

I had a small local place tried like h*ll to sell me rims with "20's" for my SUV i use for work. I stopped for a service engine light, he said i needed tires, would make me a smoking deal. I still had another rotation out of the tires, I travel a lot of rural areas at times. If i need a repair in (several small towns they may not have a tire changer that will accommodate a "20" rim, don't need the added expense) keep it simple and save.

Remember to shop in places where you live and travel so that your WRITTEN WARRANTY can be in full force for the life of the tires

Larger companies also have a reputation and you are also able escalate if needed.

retired?

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I haven't had these experiences at all.  Certainly not with larger chains.  Seems most place, thankfully, want the same as I do - to have it in writing.  Most places seem to care about their reputation enough to not 'pull a fast one'.

We did once have a stone patio installed.  All work laid out, paid half up front, half when done.  While I was at work, he presented my wife with a bill for a few hundred more claiming it was for relocating some drainage grates.  Naively, she wrote him a check.

I called the bank and had it cancelled.

Linea_Norway

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I find it best to rent a car via a more reputable agency, for example, via the recommendations from the airline company I am using, or via a travel organization. Then this company will be responsible in the end. E.g. when I book a plane via Norwegian, they as if I also want to book a rental car and I usually do this in the same transaction, as they have good prices. As I pay the airline company, they are responsible.

Once we decided to break off a vacation early and delivered the rental car 2 days early. We did not claim money back, but just delivered it. Later we received a bill that they wanted us to pay for additional days and some other BS fee. As we had booked this via a recommendation of the travel agency, we complained to them. We thought the car rental has a lot to loose in losing a big customer. It ended up in that we didn't have to pay.

ooeei

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1.) I didn't know the police would intervene in the case of a dispute between a store/vendor/contractor and a customer? Is this usual? Isn't this a civil matter, provided you are not outright shoplifting?
They won't, generally. There is more to this story, either something she's not telling you or a serious rights violation.

Yeah, I've got a good friend who is a manager at a grocery store who tells me stories of horrible customers who go and write reviews online.  Generally the review they write makes it sound like the store came out of nowhere and kicked them out.  I recall one lady who he said was riding in one of those scooters they give out to handicapped people and ran into multiple displays, and then over someone's foot when they went to tell her to take it easy.  She then started yelling at everybody, and when they finally kicked her out she wrote a scathing review about how she came in and nicely asked to use a scooter because she's handicapped and they screamed at her to get out of the store because they hate handicapped people.

In my (rather limited) experience, stores don't usually overreact on customers.  We all know a few perpetual victims who always seem to have terrible things happen to them that totally aren't their fault, these people are shoppers too.  There's a whole South Park episode all about the effect Yelp has on businesses because of these types of people.

I find it VERY hard to believe a police officer came in and threw an old lady on the ground and handcuffed her because she didn't want to pay more than she was quoted on some tires.  I'd love to hear the officer or store owner's point of view on that story.

Ebrat

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We had a car rental place try to charge us extra for bringing the car back EARLY. Upon closer inspection, it was in the contract. But still. The manager waived the fee without any argument. My guess is that they put it in there because some people will just pay it (although there was a guy on our shuttle back to the airport who complained and couldn't get them to waive it--maybe I asked more nicely?).

paddedhat

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I imagine the other side is largely based on how the customer reacts and behaves. If your on the company side of the counter and you have somebody screaming and acting like a loon,declaring that they are leaving without paying anything, a call to the police is perfectly appropriate. If the same stupid behavior continues, a trip to the station, maybe even in cuffs, could also be appropriate. OTOH, quietly requesting all necessary documents, paying with a CC, and making it quite clear that you are going to immediately  dispute the transaction get you a lot further.

ketchup

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I got a bit screwed by a tire shop last year.  We had borrowed my sister in law's car for a while, and as a thank-you we were putting new tires on it (needed them badly).  Seemed simple enough.

I made an appointment in advance at Discount Tire for 5:45pm on a Friday.  The confirmation email said all over it that if the tires I ordered were not there in time, someone would contact me to reschedule.  Tires plus installation/tax/etc was to total $352 and change.

Nobody contacted me, so I arrived at the Discount Tire at 5:45pm on Friday.  It went something like this.

"Hello.  I made an appointment for 5:45."
"OK..... yes, Mr. ketchup? with the 2013 Toyota?"
"Yes."
"Ah, let's see...  well, those Ohtsu tires you ordered aren't here yet, you know with the storms and all, FedEx must have been delayed.  You know how that happens.  But I do have some Falken tires I could put on it today sir for about $460.  Have you researched tires?  These are way better tires.  And they're rated at 65,000 miles instead of the 40,000 of the Ohtsu."
"Your website and order confirmation email told me that I would be contacted if the tires wouldn't be here in time."
"Here, come look at the difference between these tires on the display; these are way better."
"If I want to wait, when would the other tires arrive?"
"Next week sometime probably.  I could put these Falken tires on for $425 sir.  They're really much better tires."
"No, I think I'll wait.  Thank you."  [I turn around and walk towards the door.]
"Wait.  I could do it for $399.50."
"All in, installed, today?"
"Yes sir." [smarmy-sales-guy grin]
"Fine.  Do it."

So instead of getting $54 tires for $54, I got $83 tires for $65.  While waiting, I looked up the different tires on my phone, and they are indeed better tires, and rated longer.  So I probably got a decent deal, and nicer tires for SIL that will last her longer.

But I still felt like I got screwed.  I have no problem paying an extra $47 to get Ashley nicer tires.  I just can't stand all the BS.  And stop calling me "sir."

I was really expecting it to be $399.50 before tax or something stupid, but that was indeed "all-in."  I was ready to throw a fit about that and walk away.

Oh, and the TPMS sensor light lit up on the dashboard that Saturday after driving ~150 miles into rural Wisconsin.  Thanks, jerks.

intellectsucks

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Many years ago, when I was under 25, I rented a car from an agency whose name shall remain *cough* DOLLAR *cough*. They were one of a handful of agencies renting to under-25 drivers. When we arrived at HELL A X to drop the car off, they demanded more than double what I agreed to (pre-internet days--only a phone conversation/confo number). After arguing about this for about ten minutes, they would not budge, and we needed to get in the shuttle bus to get to the airport so as not to miss our flight. So, I signed the cc thing and we went on our way. I had to spend a week afterward fighting them on the phone to FINALLY get my money back. Of course, they didn't believe me, but did admit that the person who took the reservation was a dumbass (likely not nearly as dumb as their executives) who had since been fired for incompetence.

(In my experience, the rental car agencies are among the LOWEST of the low, and will mercilessly prey on any inexperienced driver/renter, and will do anything to sow FUD to screw you for extended coverage, etc. They don't bother me anymore, because I am older, much more assertive, and much richer than previously.)

I have not had such a problem since, and am scrupulous about getting things in writing, saving online receipts, using my (cash back rewards) Citibank and Amex cards for most large transactions. The experience left me paranoid for life about this type of thing happening again. Suffice it to say, it is not just the money, but I hate being the victim of corporate theft (i.e., any more than I already am as a citizen of the U.S.)

Recently I heard another alarming story: A woman picked up her car after having new tires installed, and the tire dealership demanded much more than was agreed upon. She protested and threatened to leave without paying (not clear on the details, if she had keys in hand). Apparently the cops were summoned, appeared in a split second, threw her to the ground, cuffed her and carried her away (Guantanamo?)

So, my questions are:

1.) I didn't know the police would intervene in the case of a dispute between a store/vendor/contractor and a customer? Is this usual? Isn't this a civil matter, provided you are not outright shoplifting?

2.) Does the consumer have ANY rights in this case, or do we live in some sort of brutal corporate dictatorship (already know the answer to that one!)??

3.) WHat do you do in such a case? Can you sign your cc receipt as "signed in protest"? Will that have any effect?

4.) What will happen if you just flat-out refuse to sign the cc receipt?

Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks.

If the dealership installed the tires, and she was ready, willing and able to leave without paying, then she would be stealing and police intervention was appropriate. If you disagree​ about a price, it doesn't mean you get those goods or services for free (even if you're right).

As others have said, there is likely more to the story than was in your post. To answer your questions:

Even if she was arrested, she wasn't sent to Guantanamo.

1. You have to pay for any goods or services that are provided to you. If you leave a business with merchandise that you haven't paid for, it's considered shoplifting. Same thing if you don't pay for a service (contractor work, repairs, etc). If you're willing to pay A price, just not what they're asking, then whether the police get involved is up to how reasonable you and the business are. If you're screaming and hollering and interrupting their business, or if they reasonably believe that  you won't pay, then they can call the cops.

2. Consumers have TONS of rights. In addition to the numerous federal and state laws that deal with consumer protection, you can also complain online, through consumer advocacy groups like the BBB, or get the media involved. If you have the better case, then you will eventually win. As already discussed, consumers do not have the right to refuse payment.

3. If you truly feel you're being ripped off (you were given a quoted price and are now being asked to pay a higher price even though you met the conditions of the original quote), then you calmly and reasonably insist on the original price.  Escalate to the highest level of management that you can. In almost every case, that will work. If that doesn't work, and you're being threatened with police action, then you pay with a credit card, put in a dispute for the difference and provide your credit card company with as much documentation as possible to make your case. If that doesn't work then you can go to small claims court.

4. If you refuse to sign the CC receipt, then it will likely be treated the same as refusing to pay. If that business allows you to refuse to sign, then they're so stupid they deserve a charge back when you dispute it. 

JLee

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I got a bit screwed by a tire shop last year.  We had borrowed my sister in law's car for a while, and as a thank-you we were putting new tires on it (needed them badly).  Seemed simple enough.

I made an appointment in advance at Discount Tire for 5:45pm on a Friday.  The confirmation email said all over it that if the tires I ordered were not there in time, someone would contact me to reschedule.  Tires plus installation/tax/etc was to total $352 and change.

Nobody contacted me, so I arrived at the Discount Tire at 5:45pm on Friday.  It went something like this.

"Hello.  I made an appointment for 5:45."
"OK..... yes, Mr. ketchup? with the 2013 Toyota?"
"Yes."
"Ah, let's see...  well, those Ohtsu tires you ordered aren't here yet, you know with the storms and all, FedEx must have been delayed.  You know how that happens.  But I do have some Falken tires I could put on it today sir for about $460.  Have you researched tires?  These are way better tires.  And they're rated at 65,000 miles instead of the 40,000 of the Ohtsu."
"Your website and order confirmation email told me that I would be contacted if the tires wouldn't be here in time."
"Here, come look at the difference between these tires on the display; these are way better."
"If I want to wait, when would the other tires arrive?"
"Next week sometime probably.  I could put these Falken tires on for $425 sir.  They're really much better tires."
"No, I think I'll wait.  Thank you."  [I turn around and walk towards the door.]
"Wait.  I could do it for $399.50."
"All in, installed, today?"
"Yes sir." [smarmy-sales-guy grin]
"Fine.  Do it."

So instead of getting $54 tires for $54, I got $83 tires for $65.  While waiting, I looked up the different tires on my phone, and they are indeed better tires, and rated longer.  So I probably got a decent deal, and nicer tires for SIL that will last her longer.

But I still felt like I got screwed.  I have no problem paying an extra $47 to get Ashley nicer tires.  I just can't stand all the BS.  And stop calling me "sir."

I was really expecting it to be $399.50 before tax or something stupid, but that was indeed "all-in."  I was ready to throw a fit about that and walk away.

Oh, and the TPMS sensor light lit up on the dashboard that Saturday after driving ~150 miles into rural Wisconsin.  Thanks, jerks.

Bummer.  I'm surprised you had a bad experience - Discount Tire is one of my favorite companies to deal with in the history of ever. I literally have nothing bad to say about them at all.

Gronnie

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I got a bit screwed by a tire shop last year.  We had borrowed my sister in law's car for a while, and as a thank-you we were putting new tires on it (needed them badly).  Seemed simple enough.

I made an appointment in advance at Discount Tire for 5:45pm on a Friday.  The confirmation email said all over it that if the tires I ordered were not there in time, someone would contact me to reschedule.  Tires plus installation/tax/etc was to total $352 and change.

Nobody contacted me, so I arrived at the Discount Tire at 5:45pm on Friday.  It went something like this.

"Hello.  I made an appointment for 5:45."
"OK..... yes, Mr. ketchup? with the 2013 Toyota?"
"Yes."
"Ah, let's see...  well, those Ohtsu tires you ordered aren't here yet, you know with the storms and all, FedEx must have been delayed.  You know how that happens.  But I do have some Falken tires I could put on it today sir for about $460.  Have you researched tires?  These are way better tires.  And they're rated at 65,000 miles instead of the 40,000 of the Ohtsu."
"Your website and order confirmation email told me that I would be contacted if the tires wouldn't be here in time."
"Here, come look at the difference between these tires on the display; these are way better."
"If I want to wait, when would the other tires arrive?"
"Next week sometime probably.  I could put these Falken tires on for $425 sir.  They're really much better tires."
"No, I think I'll wait.  Thank you."  [I turn around and walk towards the door.]
"Wait.  I could do it for $399.50."
"All in, installed, today?"
"Yes sir." [smarmy-sales-guy grin]
"Fine.  Do it."

So instead of getting $54 tires for $54, I got $83 tires for $65.  While waiting, I looked up the different tires on my phone, and they are indeed better tires, and rated longer.  So I probably got a decent deal, and nicer tires for SIL that will last her longer.

But I still felt like I got screwed.  I have no problem paying an extra $47 to get Ashley nicer tires.  I just can't stand all the BS.  And stop calling me "sir."

I was really expecting it to be $399.50 before tax or something stupid, but that was indeed "all-in."  I was ready to throw a fit about that and walk away.

Oh, and the TPMS sensor light lit up on the dashboard that Saturday after driving ~150 miles into rural Wisconsin.  Thanks, jerks.

Bummer.  I'm surprised you had a bad experience - Discount Tire is one of my favorite companies to deal with in the history of ever. I literally have nothing bad to say about them at all.

+1 to this. Only ever had wonderful experiences. They even rotated and balanced some tires that I didn't even buy there for free because I regularly do business with them.