Author Topic: Use Savings to Pay debt?  (Read 6050 times)

NewJourney

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Use Savings to Pay debt?
« on: October 26, 2015, 10:18:29 PM »
Hello everyone!

My full story I posted already, but in a quick summary I'll explain my situation...

Currently I pay $350 in bills per month. For car payment, insurance and student loan payment.
I have $3,000 in savings
And $6,235 in student debt. $2000 of that is 6.5% interest, and the rest is 3% interest.

Should I use the savings to pay off the debt? Or save that for my emergency fund?

Really torn...debt is and emergency I want to be rid off, but is it a bad idea to have nothing in savings?

JZinCO

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Re: Use Savings to Pay debt?
« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2015, 10:27:04 PM »
Emergency savings first, unless you have outrageous credit card debt.  There's a good image used on reddit here: http://i.imgur.com/fb7Dtmh.png
How many months of expenses does your savings get you? I would really aim for 6 mo minimum.
And for a good discussion hear: http://moneytreepodcast.com/mti058-is-paying-down-student-loans-a-good-investment/

That said, I was in your position last year, and I went aggressive with the student loan (at 6.55%). It made me feel great, and I wouldn't have done it any other way because any amount of debt just drives me crazy. If I had loans at 3%, I may have just paid the minimum, added to my emergency savings, and moved those savings to a credit union yielding 3+% until I had a good emergency buffer. It is much better to owe 3% interest on a loan than to have an emergency and be stuck with 18% credit card interest because you socked your cash into paying down the student loan.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2015, 10:30:40 PM by JZinCO »

MDM

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Re: Use Savings to Pay debt?
« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2015, 10:28:46 PM »
Depends on your cash flow and the likelihood that you will need cash in a given month.

If you are good at projecting expenses ahead by a few months, things look ok, and you have access to credit "just in case", then taking $2,000 to pay the high interest loans seems reasonable.  Then rebuild your savings to whatever level you choose, after which you start/resume investing while continuing to pay the minimum on the 3% loans.

NewJourney

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Re: Use Savings to Pay debt?
« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2015, 10:35:32 PM »
Emergency savings first, unless you have outrageous credit card debt.  There's a good image used on reddit here: http://i.imgur.com/fb7Dtmh.png
How many months of expenses does your savings get you? I would really aim for 6 mo minimum.
And for a good discussion hear: http://moneytreepodcast.com/mti058-is-paying-down-student-loans-a-good-investment/

That said, I was in your position last year, and I went aggressive with the student loan (at 6.55%). It made me feel great, and I wouldn't have done it any other way because any amount of debt just drives me crazy. If I had loans at 3%, I may have just paid the minimum, added to my emergency savings, and moved those savings to a credit union yielding 3+% until I had a good emergency buffer. It is much better to owe 3% interest on a loan than to have an emergency and be stuck with 18% credit card interest because you socked your cash into paying down the student loan.

Yeah, I hate debt so bad...just want out. It's always bothered me, but after really spending time reading MMM I can't stand it.

I also have about $2,000 coming for tax refund that I can also use in January. Knocking that one out of the way as wel

NewJourney

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Re: Use Savings to Pay debt?
« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2015, 10:40:49 PM »
Depends on your cash flow and the likelihood that you will need cash in a given month.

If you are good at projecting expenses ahead by a few months, things look ok, and you have access to credit "just in case", then taking $2,000 to pay the high interest loans seems reasonable.  Then rebuild your savings to whatever level you choose, after which you start/resume investing while continuing to pay the minimum on the 3% loans.


I also have a car loan for $14,000 that is 3% interest. After I get rid of the 6.5% loan and I'm left with the 3% car and 3% student loan. Should I try to pay these off next? Or go to savings and investing next?

whydavid

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Re: Use Savings to Pay debt?
« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2015, 10:47:08 PM »
Depends on your cash flow and the likelihood that you will need cash in a given month.

If you are good at projecting expenses ahead by a few months, things look ok, and you have access to credit "just in case", then taking $2,000 to pay the high interest loans seems reasonable.  Then rebuild your savings to whatever level you choose, after which you start/resume investing while continuing to pay the minimum on the 3% loans.


I also have a car loan for $14,000 that is 3% interest. After I get rid of the 6.5% loan and I'm left with the 3% car and 3% student loan. Should I try to pay these off next? Or go to savings and investing next?

I would definitely go the saving/investing route.  Very few investments will fail to beat 3% on average.

MDM

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Re: Use Savings to Pay debt?
« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2015, 10:57:42 PM »
I also have a car loan for $14,000 that is 3% interest. After I get rid of the 6.5% loan and I'm left with the 3% car and 3% student loan. Should I try to pay these off next? Or go to savings and investing next?
Here is one set of prioritization guidelines.
In the lists below, thinking "first your 457 (if you have one), then your 401k and/or 403b" wherever "401k" appears is likely correct.   
Differences of a few tenths of a percent are not important when applicable for only a few years (in other words, these are guidelines not rules).   
   
WHAT   
0. Establish an emergency fund to your satisfaction   
1. Contribute to 401k up to any company match   
2. Pay off any debts with interest rates ~5% or more above the 10-year Treasury note yield.   
3. Max HSA    
4. Max Traditional IRA or Roth (or backdoor Roth) based on income level   
5. Max 401k (if 401k fees are lower than available in an IRA, or if you need the 401k deduction to be eligible for a tIRA, swap #4 and #5)   
6. Fund mega backdoor Roth if applicable   
7. Pay off any debts with interest rates ~3% or more above the 10-year Treasury note yield.   
8. Invest in a taxable account with any extra.   
   
WHY   
0. Give yourself at least enough buffer to avoid worries about bouncing checks   
1. Company match rates are likely the highest percent return you can get on your money   
2. When the guaranteed return is this high, take it.   
3. HSA funds are totally tax free when used for medical expenses, making the HSA better than either traditional or Roth IRAs.   
4. Rule of thumb: traditional if current marginal rate is 25% or higher; Roth if 10% or lower; flip a coin in between (or see   
   http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/investor-alley/deciding-between-roth-and-traditional-ira-based-on-marginal-tax-rate/
   if you want even more details on that topic.)
5. See #4 for choice of traditional or Roth for 401k   
6. Applicability depends on the rules for the specific 401k   
7. Again, take the risk-free return if high enough   
8. Because earnings, even if taxed, are beneficial   
   
The emergency fund is your "no risk" money.  You might consider one of these online banks: http://www.magnifymoney.com/blog/earning-interest/best-online-savings-accounts275921001   
      
If your 401k options are poor (i.e., high fund fees) you can check http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/investor-alley/to-401k-or-not-to-401k-that-is-the-question-43459/ for some thoughts on "how high is too high?"   

If you still want to pay off the 3% loans (although I agree with whydavid on the likely better answer), and if you are able to deduct student loan interest on your tax return, at least pay the car loan first.

JZinCO

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Re: Use Savings to Pay debt?
« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2015, 11:01:21 PM »
Yeah, I hate debt so bad...just want out. It's always bothered me, but after really spending time reading MMM I can't stand it.

I also have about $2,000 coming for tax refund that I can also use in January. Knocking that one out of the way as wel

The lesson I get from MMM is not the standard Dave Ramsey, tackle debt talk. It's making the most of your hard-earned dough. So, I suggest seriously consider leaving the 3% student loan alone. Is it a federal loan? Because after deducting interest on taxes, it may be a lower effective rate. And if we see inflation rise, the real interest rate is even lower. Find a better vehicle to make your stache grow than accelerating payments on that loan.

---
I think MDM's detail should hit the idea home.

NewJourney

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Re: Use Savings to Pay debt?
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2015, 11:05:53 PM »
Yeah, I hate debt so bad...just want out. It's always bothered me, but after really spending time reading MMM I can't stand it.

I also have about $2,000 coming for tax refund that I can also use in January. Knocking that one out of the way as wel

The lesson I get from MMM is not the standard Dave Ramsey, tackle debt talk. It's making the most of your hard-earned dough. So, I suggest seriously consider leaving the 3% student loan alone. Is it a federal loan? Because after deducting interest on taxes, it may be a lower effective rate. And if we see inflation rise, the real interest rate is even lower. Find a better vehicle to make your stache grow than accelerating payments on that loan.

---
I think MDM's detail should hit the idea home.

I agree, I'm really excited to get started. Only wish I would have known about MMM years ago

NewJourney

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Re: Use Savings to Pay debt?
« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2015, 11:08:07 PM »
I also have a car loan for $14,000 that is 3% interest. After I get rid of the 6.5% loan and I'm left with the 3% car and 3% student loan. Should I try to pay these off next? Or go to savings and investing next?
Here is one set of prioritization guidelines.
In the lists below, thinking "first your 457 (if you have one), then your 401k and/or 403b" wherever "401k" appears is likely correct.   
Differences of a few tenths of a percent are not important when applicable for only a few years (in other words, these are guidelines not rules).   
   
WHAT   
0. Establish an emergency fund to your satisfaction   
1. Contribute to 401k up to any company match   
2. Pay off any debts with interest rates ~5% or more above the 10-year Treasury note yield.   
3. Max HSA    
4. Max Traditional IRA or Roth (or backdoor Roth) based on income level   
5. Max 401k (if 401k fees are lower than available in an IRA, or if you need the 401k deduction to be eligible for a tIRA, swap #4 and #5)   
6. Fund mega backdoor Roth if applicable   
7. Pay off any debts with interest rates ~3% or more above the 10-year Treasury note yield.   
8. Invest in a taxable account with any extra.   
   
WHY   
0. Give yourself at least enough buffer to avoid worries about bouncing checks   
1. Company match rates are likely the highest percent return you can get on your money   
2. When the guaranteed return is this high, take it.   
3. HSA funds are totally tax free when used for medical expenses, making the HSA better than either traditional or Roth IRAs.   
4. Rule of thumb: traditional if current marginal rate is 25% or higher; Roth if 10% or lower; flip a coin in between (or see   
   http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/investor-alley/deciding-between-roth-and-traditional-ira-based-on-marginal-tax-rate/
   if you want even more details on that topic.)
5. See #4 for choice of traditional or Roth for 401k   
6. Applicability depends on the rules for the specific 401k   
7. Again, take the risk-free return if high enough   
8. Because earnings, even if taxed, are beneficial   
   
The emergency fund is your "no risk" money.  You might consider one of these online banks: http://www.magnifymoney.com/blog/earning-interest/best-online-savings-accounts275921001   
      
If your 401k options are poor (i.e., high fund fees) you can check http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/investor-alley/to-401k-or-not-to-401k-that-is-the-question-43459/ for some thoughts on "how high is too high?"   

If you still want to pay off the 3% loans (although I agree with whydavid on the likely better answer), and if you are able to deduct student loan interest on your tax return, at least pay the car loan first.

MDM, I guess I'm really confused as to the different between the different accounts..HSA, 401K, IRA, Roth IRA.

What is an HSA used for? How do they work compared to the other accounts

NewJourney

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Re: Use Savings to Pay debt?
« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2015, 11:16:52 PM »
What do you guys think of what Discver has to offer for their IRA's?

https://www.discover.com/online-banking/ira-cd/

Is a Roth IRA better than an IRA?

I saw Fidelity also offers Roth IRA's
« Last Edit: October 26, 2015, 11:30:46 PM by NewJourney »

JZinCO

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Re: Use Savings to Pay debt?
« Reply #11 on: October 26, 2015, 11:30:46 PM »
What do you guys think of what Discver has to offer for their IRA's?

https://www.discover.com/online-banking/ira-cd/

You can find checking accounts with better rates and 100% liquidity.

As an aside... From your response to MDM, it sounds like you may be overwhelmed or just unfamiliar with your options.
If you don't mind opening up a little bit, I suggest you write up a case study in the ask a mustachian section. It sounds like you need to set up a plan before you start putting your money here or there.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2015, 11:34:43 PM by JZinCO »

MDM

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Re: Use Savings to Pay debt?
« Reply #12 on: October 27, 2015, 12:16:05 AM »
MDM, I guess I'm really confused as to the different between the different accounts..HSA, 401K, IRA, Roth IRA.

What is an HSA used for? How do they work compared to the other accounts
http://www.madfientist.com/ultimate-retirement-account/ gives a quick overview of these.

Some short "getting started" reading material (note that these may not give identical advice, but if you follow any of it you will likely do well):
www.etf.com/docs/IfYouCan.pdf
http://jlcollinsnh.com/stock-series/
http://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Category:Getting_started

For longer works, http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/the-mmm-reading-list/ - Haven't read them all, but A Random Walk Down Wall Street by Burton Malkiel and The Four Pillars of Investing by William Bernstein were good.

NewJourney

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Re: Use Savings to Pay debt?
« Reply #13 on: October 27, 2015, 06:19:17 AM »
What do you guys think of what Discver has to offer for their IRA's?

https://www.discover.com/online-banking/ira-cd/

You can find checking accounts with better rates and 100% liquidity.

As an aside... From your response to MDM, it sounds like you may be overwhelmed or just unfamiliar with your options.
If you don't mind opening up a little bit, I suggest you write up a case study in the ask a mustachian section. It sounds like you need to set up a plan before you start putting your money here or there.

I really am. Very overwhelmed and super unfamiliar. I'm so eager to get everything going, I think I should just slow down and do more research.

With so many different accounts, it seems like a lot. Plus my employer only offers a 403 b not a 401K

MDM

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Re: Use Savings to Pay debt?
« Reply #14 on: October 27, 2015, 07:38:35 PM »
With so many different accounts, it seems like a lot. Plus my employer only offers a 403 b not a 401K

The abbreviation "401k" is often used to refer to "whatever employer sponsored plan is available for tax-advantaged investment."  A 401k usually comes with for-profit companies, while a 403b is usually associated with non-profit organizations - but for practical purposes you can consider them equivalent.