Author Topic: UK and Ireland MMM check in and discussion  (Read 20103 times)

Stubblestache

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Re: UK and Ireland MMM check in and discussion
« Reply #50 on: July 26, 2017, 09:31:17 AM »
QUESTION FOR ANY SELF EMPLOYED ON HERE

Don't meant to derail the thread but thought best to post on the UK and Ireland thread. I'll move if people take umbrage -

 Anyone here self employed? if so, what do you do with the money you put aside for tax? I've started whacking it in premium bonds. I know the likelyhood of returns are low, but:
  • it's guaranteed by UKT so 100% safe
  • It's fast to withdraw money if needed/when the tax bill comes

Just wondered if anyone has any better ideas than this? It seems such a waste having so much dough just sitting doing FA all year.

Playing with Fire UK

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Re: UK and Ireland MMM check in and discussion
« Reply #51 on: July 26, 2017, 10:10:14 AM »
I think of my tax return money and my e-fund as one and the same (not calling tax an emergency), so I don't need to double up. If I get a cash/employment related emergency at the same time as a bigger tax bill than I was anticipating then I'll take the hit on either selling funds at a sub-optimal time or pay for credit.

[only part of my income is self employed, I might think differently if the amount was bigger]

shelivesthedream

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Re: UK and Ireland MMM check in and discussion
« Reply #52 on: July 26, 2017, 10:56:02 AM »
Never heard of that might look into that.  We are close to 3 universities and 2 premiership football grounds too.

Try these people: I see their students around a lot and it seems very well organised: http://www.ef.co.uk/host-family/hosting-foreign-students/

Any idea what they pay?

Haven't the faintest, I'm afraid, but someone I used to work with did it (maybe not with them) and got approx £100-£200/week per student. She had a twin room and tried to get two friends at a time. She took as many as she could as she needed the money, but you're under no obligation to take someone at any particular time.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2017, 05:50:00 AM by shelivesthedream »

hred17

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Re: UK and Ireland MMM check in and discussion
« Reply #53 on: July 26, 2017, 12:56:02 PM »
Following as my husband and I plan to return to / retire in the UK - most likely Northwest England or Scotland.

And +1 for a new forum thread for the UK peeps!

autogunner

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Re: UK and Ireland MMM check in and discussion
« Reply #54 on: July 26, 2017, 06:42:37 PM »
Yo!

Technically I'm UK MMM, Currently working in Canada until Q2 2018 then I'm back in the UK. 28 with one rental property and not much else, I got into working late due to a Ph.D., I've been a postdoc for 2 years. No clear plan yet, I really like rentals, I have a great gig set up where I rent to a university-run accommodation service that sublets to students, and they guarantee rent and any significant damage for the whole tenancy period. Ideally, I'd like to keep living like a miser and pick up 1 more rental. I'd also like to renovate houses at some point, and eventually self-build one day.


dreams_and_discoveries

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Re: UK and Ireland MMM check in and discussion
« Reply #55 on: July 27, 2017, 01:41:11 AM »
QUESTION FOR ANY SELF EMPLOYED ON HERE

Don't meant to derail the thread but thought best to post on the UK and Ireland thread. I'll move if people take umbrage -

 Anyone here self employed? if so, what do you do with the money you put aside for tax? I've started whacking it in premium bonds. I know the likelyhood of returns are low, but:
  • it's guaranteed by UKT so 100% safe
  • It's fast to withdraw money if needed/when the tax bill comes

Just wondered if anyone has any better ideas than this? It seems such a waste having so much dough just sitting doing FA all year.

My old approach was Santander123, when it was 3% interest....nowadays I don't even bother keeping it separate just make sure I have enough cash flow to pay it half yearly as required.  The first year I went self employed it got to be a massive number, but when you are on payments on account it seems a much smaller amount.

So I'm in effect investing mine, and paying my tax bill from income, a bit risky but have the funds to back it up, and I always pay myself quarterly in arrears anyway. I always account for tax bills as a liability anyway.

shelivesthedream

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Re: UK and Ireland MMM check in and discussion
« Reply #56 on: July 27, 2017, 01:51:46 AM »
QUESTION FOR ANY SELF EMPLOYED ON HERE

Don't meant to derail the thread but thought best to post on the UK and Ireland thread. I'll move if people take umbrage -

 Anyone here self employed? if so, what do you do with the money you put aside for tax? I've started whacking it in premium bonds. I know the likelyhood of returns are low, but:
  • it's guaranteed by UKT so 100% safe
  • It's fast to withdraw money if needed/when the tax bill comes

Just wondered if anyone has any better ideas than this? It seems such a waste having so much dough just sitting doing FA all year.

My old approach was Santander123, when it was 3% interest....nowadays I don't even bother keeping it separate just make sure I have enough cash flow to pay it half yearly as required.  The first year I went self employed it got to be a massive number, but when you are on payments on account it seems a much smaller amount.

So I'm in effect investing mine, and paying my tax bill from income, a bit risky but have the funds to back it up, and I always pay myself quarterly in arrears anyway. I always account for tax bills as a liability anyway.

I don't earn that much so I've only ever had a three figure tax bill. I keep £1000 as a float for expenses in my business account, so I just pay it out of that. I do my tax return super early, though (May-June, whenever I have all the paperwork come through) and if I didn't have enough cash (waiting to be reimbursed for some big expenses or waiting for an invoice to be paid) I'd just wait a month or two to pay it.

That said, we live on my husband's income, so I don't need mine for anything other than savings and taxes and the occasional holiday.

Stubblestache

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Re: UK and Ireland MMM check in and discussion
« Reply #57 on: July 27, 2017, 02:17:09 AM »
thanks for thoughts all - maybe I'll start investing a fraction of it in trackers but will need to do some mental aerobics for a while to get my head around the risk.

Since I returned to investing after cashing out for a house deposit the stock markets have only really gone up, and I'm trying to remind myself what a falling market feels like and how much I don't want the double whammy of that and a big tax bill! :)

Friar

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Re: UK and Ireland MMM check in and discussion
« Reply #58 on: July 27, 2017, 03:58:18 AM »
Hey all.

I don't see anyone else who is currently Midlands based so I guess I'm the only one on that front! I'm in a relatively HCOL area for the salary. At least compared to some northern cities.

I'm 28 and been on the FI game for ~4 years.

skip207

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Re: UK and Ireland MMM check in and discussion
« Reply #59 on: July 27, 2017, 05:42:53 AM »
Must admit I spent some time in the midlands and was shocked at some of the house prices in some areas.  Very expensive compared to oop norf.
Easily twice the price.  Could be a silver lining in that though in terms of house price rises will bring more returns, if the current trend continues.

MKWotsit

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Re: UK and Ireland MMM check in and discussion
« Reply #60 on: July 27, 2017, 06:18:11 AM »
North Bucks area here. Longtime lurker - just joined when I saw this thread.
I'm 47, hubby is 50. Planning to retire in 2024 when I'm 55. Have always been a tightwad so am slowly building a stash to bridge the gap between working and pensions.
Living in my first house with my first husband, sharing one crap old banger. Camping, hiking, canooeing & cycling for holidays and growing loads of food in the back garden. Have a PAYG dumbphone and ditched the TV last year. My friends think I'm a little odd so I come on boards like these to find likeminded folk!

MostlyBearded

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Re: UK and Ireland MMM check in and discussion
« Reply #61 on: July 27, 2017, 06:37:13 AM »
QUESTION.

Ever since reading about geographical arbitrage on here I got interested in the idea of finding places I could earn more, preferably in a LCOL area. I see there's lots of people from the North East and after quick search both my wife and I could find at least the same salaries (possibly even higher) somewhere like Newcastle and slice the cost of the house almost in half!

Our 3 bed new build town house was bought last year for £290k and ideally in future we could do with a 4th bedroom as the children get older and it becomes harder to share.

Does anyone have any recommendations on areas? Doesn't have to be NE, I think we would consider just about anywhere. As long as it's safe as we have 3 young kids and we could get good paying jobs?

She works in Digital Marketing and I work in Financial Services if that helps?

Extra bonus points for proximity to rural delights, sea, mountains etc!


shelivesthedream

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Re: UK and Ireland MMM check in and discussion
« Reply #62 on: July 27, 2017, 06:54:19 AM »
MostlyBearded, where do you live at the moment? (Not that I can offer any advice, just interested to know what the eventual comparison is. We're looking to move away from London in a few years.)

UKstache

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Re: UK and Ireland MMM check in and discussion
« Reply #63 on: July 27, 2017, 07:03:13 AM »
QUESTION.

Ever since reading about geographical arbitrage on here I got interested in the idea of finding places I could earn more, preferably in a LCOL area. I see there's lots of people from the North East and after quick search both my wife and I could find at least the same salaries (possibly even higher) somewhere like Newcastle and slice the cost of the house almost in half!

Our 3 bed new build town house was bought last year for £290k and ideally in future we could do with a 4th bedroom as the children get older and it becomes harder to share.

Does anyone have any recommendations on areas? Doesn't have to be NE, I think we would consider just about anywhere. As long as it's safe as we have 3 young kids and we could get good paying jobs?

She works in Digital Marketing and I work in Financial Services if that helps?

Extra bonus points for proximity to rural delights, sea, mountains etc!
I live in Newcastle, and I'm not sure the grass is greener here. Happy to answer any specific questions if i can. Depends where you're coming from and if you can get the jobs that you want...

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MostlyBearded

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Re: UK and Ireland MMM check in and discussion
« Reply #64 on: July 27, 2017, 07:14:23 AM »
@Shelivesthedream we live in Bedford. I think the property prices here get boosted up a little more than they would otherwise be because it's 40 mins on the train to St Pancras. Quite a few of my friends and neighbours work in London.

@UKstache I suppose I'm initially just basing my suggestion on our equivalent job's being advertised at slightly higher rates than we currently earn and the property prices which seem quite a bit lower. We don't want to live anywhere that would be considered rough, but not looking for super posh either. Do you know what the villages to the North of Newcastle are like? I can live with a 30 minute commute by car or train if it means we can get out of the city. I guess we would look at spending up to £175k to make the move worthwhile. That alone could considerably accelerate our journey to FI.

I found a 4 bed semi in Morpeth for 145k on Rightmove for instance and the closest schools all have outstanding Ofsted's (which is a big deal for my wife especially).

UKMustache

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Re: UK and Ireland MMM check in and discussion
« Reply #65 on: July 27, 2017, 08:00:18 AM »
QUESTION.
Does anyone have any recommendations on areas?

She works in Digital Marketing and I work in Financial Services if that helps?


I'd take a look at Manchester.  The city is expanding at an incredible rate, I've never seen anything like it.

There's a lot of digital / media jobs in Media City which while technically Salford is only 5 minutes from Manchester.
There's also a lot of financial services, they're considered second city to London in that regard.  RBS, Barclays, Co-operative finance, BNY Melon, all have got a big offices in the centre of town (easily commutable from a lot of green places in sub 30 minutes).

2lazy2retire

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Re: UK and Ireland MMM check in and discussion
« Reply #66 on: July 27, 2017, 08:13:23 AM »
Does everyone here agree that it would be worthwhile to request a separate sub-forum for us UK MMM fans?  Our pensions, taxes, ISAs etc.etc. are completely different from those in the USA/Canada and we could maybe learn from each other's experiences.

If so, how do we go about requesting this?

Thanks

PD

Great Idea for UK based MMM'rs - just like to point out that the OP mentioned UK and Ireland and as any Irish lurkers will know the options in Ireland for investing are pretty brutal even when compared to whats available in the UK
Originally from Ireland lived in the UK for years and now US based I occasionally look to the UK and Ireland to see if either would be a favourable place to retire, the UK tax system while not as attractive as the US does offer low tax rates on div's and LTG's as well as tax sheltered ISA's  etc.
 Ireland in comparison seems determined to punish anyone who might think it was a good idea to invest in shares with a brutal tax regime and limited scope to access Vangaurd type funds. Anyone from Ireland on here found a way to invest or draw money in ER without getting scr3w3d?.

MostlyBearded

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Re: UK and Ireland MMM check in and discussion
« Reply #67 on: July 27, 2017, 08:17:48 AM »
QUESTION.
Does anyone have any recommendations on areas?

She works in Digital Marketing and I work in Financial Services if that helps?


I'd take a look at Manchester.  The city is expanding at an incredible rate, I've never seen anything like it.

There's a lot of digital / media jobs in Media City which while technically Salford is only 5 minutes from Manchester.
There's also a lot of financial services, they're considered second city to London in that regard.  RBS, Barclays, Co-operative finance, BNY Melon, all have got a big offices in the centre of town (easily commutable from a lot of green places in sub 30 minutes).
Thanks. I have a friend who moved from down here with his fiance to Prestwich and they both have higher paying jobs now. Will definitely investigate!

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former player

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Re: UK and Ireland MMM check in and discussion
« Reply #68 on: July 27, 2017, 08:19:53 AM »
A UK sub-forum gets my vote too.

Quote
Does anyone have any recommendations on areas?

She works in Digital Marketing and I work in Financial Services if that helps?

Birmingham would be my bet - the regeneration of the centre is superb, housing is still relatively cheap, and the potential for economic growth is there - it's the Manchester of the next 10 years in my opinion.

For myself: in my 50s, living in the far south-west, FIREd from London in 2010 in the first round of the coalition government austerity cuts.

Stubblestache

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Re: UK and Ireland MMM check in and discussion
« Reply #69 on: July 27, 2017, 10:41:05 AM »
QUESTION.

Ever since reading about geographical arbitrage on here I got interested in the idea of finding places I could earn more, preferably in a LCOL area. I see there's lots of people from the North East and after quick search both my wife and I could find at least the same salaries (possibly even higher) somewhere like Newcastle and slice the cost of the house almost in half!

Our 3 bed new build town house was bought last year for £290k and ideally in future we could do with a 4th bedroom as the children get older and it becomes harder to share.

Does anyone have any recommendations on areas? Doesn't have to be NE, I think we would consider just about anywhere. As long as it's safe as we have 3 young kids and we could get good paying jobs?

She works in Digital Marketing and I work in Financial Services if that helps?

Extra bonus points for proximity to rural delights, sea, mountains etc!
I live in Newcastle, and I'm not sure the grass is greener here. Happy to answer any specific questions if i can. Depends where you're coming from and if you can get the jobs that you want...

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Compared to London, the grass in Newcastle is greener than the most brilliant emerald ever discovered.

But there could be a jobs problem, especially for financial services. Digital marketing is a lot easier to find jobs in almost any city.

Stubblestache

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Re: UK and Ireland MMM check in and discussion
« Reply #70 on: July 27, 2017, 10:43:35 AM »
North Bucks area here. Longtime lurker - just joined when I saw this thread.
I'm 47, hubby is 50. Planning to retire in 2024 when I'm 55. Have always been a tightwad so am slowly building a stash to bridge the gap between working and pensions.
Living in my first house with my first husband, sharing one crap old banger. Camping, hiking, canooeing & cycling for holidays and growing loads of food in the back garden. Have a PAYG dumbphone and ditched the TV last year. My friends think I'm a little odd so I come on boards like these to find likeminded folk!

I'd say you're in some pretty good company round here :)
OH and I love us some outdoor stuff and I couldn't give a single damn about what car I drive - I cycle anywhere under about 40 mins away.

UKstache

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Re: UK and Ireland MMM check in and discussion
« Reply #71 on: July 27, 2017, 11:02:17 AM »
QUESTION.

Ever since reading about geographical arbitrage on here I got interested in the idea of finding places I could earn more, preferably in a LCOL area. I see there's lots of people from the North East and after quick search both my wife and I could find at least the same salaries (possibly even higher) somewhere like Newcastle and slice the cost of the house almost in half!

Our 3 bed new build town house was bought last year for £290k and ideally in future we could do with a 4th bedroom as the children get older and it becomes harder to share.

Does anyone have any recommendations on areas? Doesn't have to be NE, I think we would consider just about anywhere. As long as it's safe as we have 3 young kids and we could get good paying jobs?

She works in Digital Marketing and I work in Financial Services if that helps?

Extra bonus points for proximity to rural delights, sea, mountains etc!
I live in Newcastle, and I'm not sure the grass is greener here. Happy to answer any specific questions if i can. Depends where you're coming from and if you can get the jobs that you want...

Sent from my HTC Desire 510 using Tapatalk

Compared to London, the grass in Newcastle is greener than the most brilliant emerald ever discovered.

But there could be a jobs problem, especially for financial services. Digital marketing is a lot easier to find jobs in almost any city.
So the grass is greener, except when it isn't? Judging from the town house price we're not comparing Newcastle to London anyway.

Sent from my HTC Desire 510 using Tapatalk


dreams_and_discoveries

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Re: UK and Ireland MMM check in and discussion
« Reply #72 on: July 27, 2017, 11:27:52 AM »
Cultural and natural amenities also deserve to be taken into account when comparing locations, in particular those you use and value.

Expensive cities tend to have much more varied and vibrant cultural scenes, with loads of free/reasonable events. More remote locations offer the stunning landscape and recreational opportunities.  Which you value is deeply personal and dependent on lifestyle.

JimboJones31

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Re: UK and Ireland MMM check in and discussion
« Reply #73 on: July 27, 2017, 12:20:23 PM »
Another one checking in!  From Suffolk but I've lived in the North West for over a decade.  Wife and two daughters, and a mortgage that's too big (fairly late to the Mustache game).  I'm 39 and the wife is 37, and the aim is to be FIRE by 52, but in reality we're considering some other options, namely going earlier and doing some sort of part time work.  Our net worth is £400k, but £180k of that is in the house, so only £220k of liquid funds/pension.  The aim would be to get that liquid/pension total to at least £600k before we do anything, probably £900k for a full-on FIRE with no additional work.  And get the house paid off.  I'm not sure on savings rate, I've always found it quite complex to calculate  but I think it's around 30%.  We could certainly be more frugal but we're going for a more balanced approach rather than all out saving.

Great idea for a thread BTW - and definitely would support the call for a UK area of the forum!

Stubblestache

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Re: UK and Ireland MMM check in and discussion
« Reply #74 on: July 27, 2017, 01:57:45 PM »
QUESTION.

Ever since reading about geographical arbitrage on here I got interested in the idea of finding places I could earn more, preferably in a LCOL area. I see there's lots of people from the North East and after quick search both my wife and I could find at least the same salaries (possibly even higher) somewhere like Newcastle and slice the cost of the house almost in half!

Our 3 bed new build town house was bought last year for £290k and ideally in future we could do with a 4th bedroom as the children get older and it becomes harder to share.

Does anyone have any recommendations on areas? Doesn't have to be NE, I think we would consider just about anywhere. As long as it's safe as we have 3 young kids and we could get good paying jobs?

She works in Digital Marketing and I work in Financial Services if that helps?

Extra bonus points for proximity to rural delights, sea, mountains etc!
I live in Newcastle, and I'm not sure the grass is greener here. Happy to answer any specific questions if i can. Depends where you're coming from and if you can get the jobs that you want...

Sent from my HTC Desire 510 using Tapatalk

Compared to London, the grass in Newcastle is greener than the most brilliant emerald ever discovered.

But there could be a jobs problem, especially for financial services. Digital marketing is a lot easier to find jobs in almost any city.
So the grass is greener, except when it isn't? Judging from the town house price we're not comparing Newcastle to London anyway.

Sent from my HTC Desire 510 using Tapatalk

Grass isn't necessarily emerald coloured either, don't forget to point that out.

FI-42

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Re: UK and Ireland MMM check in and discussion
« Reply #75 on: July 27, 2017, 02:14:00 PM »
@Shelivesthedream we live in Bedford. I think the property prices here get boosted up a little more than they would otherwise be because it's 40 mins on the train to St Pancras. Quite a few of my friends and neighbours work in London.

@UKstache I suppose I'm initially just basing my suggestion on our equivalent job's being advertised at slightly higher rates than we currently earn and the property prices which seem quite a bit lower. We don't want to live anywhere that would be considered rough, but not looking for super posh either. Do you know what the villages to the North of Newcastle are like? I can live with a 30 minute commute by car or train if it means we can get out of the city. I guess we would look at spending up to £175k to make the move worthwhile. That alone could considerably accelerate our journey to FI.

I found a 4 bed semi in Morpeth for 145k on Rightmove for instance and the closest schools all have outstanding Ofsted's (which is a big deal for my wife especially).

Manchester is very up and coming.  The city is very nice.  I was considering Stafford as it sits between both Brum and Manchester.

StiffUpperLip

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Re: UK and Ireland MMM check in and discussion
« Reply #76 on: July 27, 2017, 02:33:58 PM »
Hi all.

I'm currently living in West Cumbria with Mr and kids (5 and 2). We've got a 10yr+ timeline to FI, around 45 for me and 50 for Mr, which is great but the comparison monster hounds me in feeling like we're not up to full mustachian standards. Current savings rate is about 30% as we wait out the full-time childcare cost on our littlest.

One of my main drivers for seeking FI is my Generalised Anxiety Disorder which leads me to be a bit of a control freak and also means I crave the sort of stability FI can offer. The rat-race is not good for a brain such as mine and I'm very concerned about burning it out if I were to stay on that course into my sixties!

Contrarily, my form of GAD is precisely what makes me good at my job... go figure!

I also want to pitch in my support for a UK focused topic area!

UKstache

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Re: UK and Ireland MMM check in and discussion
« Reply #77 on: July 27, 2017, 03:23:01 PM »
QUESTION.

Ever since reading about geographical arbitrage on here I got interested in the idea of finding places I could earn more, preferably in a LCOL area. I see there's lots of people from the North East and after quick search both my wife and I could find at least the same salaries (possibly even higher) somewhere like Newcastle and slice the cost of the house almost in half!

Our 3 bed new build town house was bought last year for £290k and ideally in future we could do with a 4th bedroom as the children get older and it becomes harder to share.

Does anyone have any recommendations on areas? Doesn't have to be NE, I think we would consider just about anywhere. As long as it's safe as we have 3 young kids and we could get good paying jobs?

She works in Digital Marketing and I work in Financial Services if that helps?

Extra bonus points for proximity to rural delights, sea, mountains etc!
I live in Newcastle, and I'm not sure the grass is greener here. Happy to answer any specific questions if i can. Depends where you're coming from and if you can get the jobs that you want...

Sent from my HTC Desire 510 using Tapatalk

Compared to London, the grass in Newcastle is greener than the most brilliant emerald ever discovered.

But there could be a jobs problem, especially for financial services. Digital marketing is a lot easier to find jobs in almost any city.
So the grass is greener, except when it isn't? Judging from the town house price we're not comparing Newcastle to London anyway.

Sent from my HTC Desire 510 using Tapatalk

Grass isn't necessarily emerald coloured either, don't forget to point that out.
I was just trying to help. I'll leave it there.

Sent from my HTC Desire 510 using Tapatalk


May2030

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Re: UK and Ireland MMM check in and discussion
« Reply #78 on: July 27, 2017, 03:34:53 PM »
Hello I am 42 yr old living in Central belt of Scotland practising  Mustachian lite.

I only discovered MMM in May so still working out figures and my true cost of living to see how much I can save. Have a FI date and go part time of  2030 aged 55. At 3% interest and a current saving rate will have £400k in pension alone but want £500k.

Net worth about £250k inc house which is mortgage free. Pay 41% gross as of this month into pension, target 50%. Not sure how but last months savings rate was 70% as I lived on £500. I have 20% of lower target saved.

Discovering MMM has been a revelation and a emotional roller coaster. Stages so far 1. This is amazing I can do this. Happy! 2. I have wasted so much cash in the past. Sad! 3. I am a victim of consumerism. Angry! 4. I have two cars. Punch in the face!

Good to see fellow Brits willing to talk about F.I.R.E. I have found it impossible to have any meaningful conversation with my colleagues or friends about it as its assumed you work until your state pension unless your rich.


skip207

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Re: UK and Ireland MMM check in and discussion
« Reply #79 on: July 28, 2017, 02:10:40 AM »
Its defo not the done thing in the UK so hard to talk about it esp with people born before 1980.   The majority work till their mid 60s so its just not understood.

I think as time goes on it will be more acceptable though, 18 year olds now have a totally different way of thinking about life and work.  That said I am not sure they fully understand the idea of saving!  I know, I know, someone will be along shortly to moan about £50k student loans, house prices etc etc...

Playing with Fire UK

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Re: UK and Ireland MMM check in and discussion
« Reply #80 on: July 28, 2017, 02:38:59 AM »
Longtime lurker - just joined when I saw this thread.

Welcome! I think we have a few people who have delurked for this thread.

I also find that people I know in real life have very different goals and financial objectives to me. The boards here are helpful to confirm that it isn't just us being strange!

RobFIRE

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Re: UK and Ireland MMM check in and discussion
« Reply #81 on: July 28, 2017, 03:01:24 AM »
Hi

From SE England, though living in another part of UK at the moment.

I suppose I've always been of the MMM mindset since as a child I normally wanted to save up my pocket money/earnings from little household jobs to pay into Post Office savings account rather than going out and spending it. Now 33 and have been working for ~10 years, always renting in that time (first in a couple of houseshares and now with girlfriend) and just had the mindset that I had my basic costs of rent, utilities, food, car and after that the default was to save the rest. I've never been very materialistic and with an analytical mindset tend to think of spending as an efficiency/utility calculation. Recently I have started putting a lot of my salary into my pension (salary sacrifice scheme so is even more tax efficient than normal DC), and still saving half of my take home pay in normal months, so my savings rate including pension is > 100% of take home. That is made possible by having reasonable earnings (but nowhere near 6 figures), sharing rent in reasonably priced areas, having no family to take care of.

So I am already in the position of having FU money and am FI in terms of being able to take 1 year off work/slowly change jobs etc. with no issues. In terms of FIRE targets, I think that a paid off house and £2k a month in income, so about £500k in investments assuming 25x/4% rule, would be basic FIRE for a UK family to live a reasonable zero-work life. What I would probably do in terms of side gigs (and when I think of a side gig I think of something that is not just continuing previous employment on a part time or freelance basis, so likely to be lower paid per hour than main employment), is then consider that I could be FIRE at house+500k without any big luxury spending (like really expensive holidays etc.), so would work side gigs to cover any luxury/discretionary spending wanted (I think the earnings buying an enjoyable luxury would seem more "worth it" to me than the earnings just being additional investments). I know I'm on the FIRE path but as I don't know where I'll be living in future and/or timing of starting family, I have no particular FIRE dates/targets in mind other than the broad house+500k as a next line in the sand.

I currently work full time in a permanent job in financial services IT. My likely plan in the next few years would be to switch to contracting jobs. Typically the earnings would be 2x as much (or a bit more when maximising pension tax relief, and 3x as much if I got the right contacts, and that's without any of the tax dodges) while working, though clearly without the guarantee of working all the time. I think that would suit me as I would ideally have a working model of a ~3 month summer break then working the rest of the time. I think I could be happy contracting for a good time, even beyond the point of needing the money. I think once I know the work is optional, and it is not full time/I can take a fair amount of holiday time, I could continue with that model for a lot longer. Another strand is that I would like to be able to give money to charity, so perhaps my combined ideal FIRE strategy would be to have house+500k to guarantee basic FIRE position, then work intermittently/with long holidays as a contractor, so being able to save up a bit more contingency money, have earned money for some luxuries (we're talking 2 week holidays and quality used bikes here, not Ferraris) and being able to give say a third or a half of income to charity (as most of the top slice of earnings would have been tax anyway). I don't know how realistic that all is in combination, but I should be able to get to something like that.

In terms of UK FIRE awareness, certainly there are plenty of financially clueless/won't help themselves people (e.g. former housemate who smoked a packet a day, had no money left at end of month and couldn't understand why...) but on the other hand amongst my friends and family awareness is much higher (e.g. realizing that eating out is a luxury that can be cut back, overpaying mortgage is a good idea, and having plans for life in 40s and 50s of part time work due to stable finances) even if they are not explicitly aware of MMM/FIRE or taking advantage of every tax allowance/savings option. Main plus point for me is that my girlfriend is broadly on board with the FIRE concept, in terms of having a future where work is optional and/or work is driven by the value it adds to society/enjoyment it brings, and having lots of leisure time. Her parents did retire earlier than normal (mid 50s).

@Stubblestache: another short-term investment option is peer-to-peer lending via e.g. Zopa. Zopa quote typical returns of about 6% (that is after allowing for bad debt). I have had money in there for several years and it's been good, and seems to be well-run (I haven't calculated my actual rate of return due to putting money in regularly, though when I last looked properly the bad debt was only about 20% of my earned interest, less than Zopa's projections). You can invest the money then have the interest payments returned to a holding account to withdraw, or sell loans for a 1% fee, so depending on your income and tax bill needs that might be an option to generate a steady return on relatively short term money.

TartanTallulah

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Re: UK and Ireland MMM check in and discussion
« Reply #82 on: July 28, 2017, 12:31:25 PM »
Its defo not the done thing in the UK so hard to talk about it esp with people born before 1980.   The majority work till their mid 60s so its just not understood.


It's not just FIRE - I think it's not the done thing in the UK to talk about money at all, except in a general and conceptual sort of way, or when we're gossiping about other people's income/spending behind their backs.

dreams_and_discoveries

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Re: UK and Ireland MMM check in and discussion
« Reply #83 on: July 28, 2017, 02:10:06 PM »
I currently work full time in a permanent job in financial services IT. My likely plan in the next few years would be to switch to contracting jobs. Typically the earnings would be 2x as much (or a bit more when maximising pension tax relief, and 3x as much if I got the right contacts, and that's without any of the tax dodges) while working, though clearly without the guarantee of working all the time. I think that would suit me as I would ideally have a working model of a ~3 month summer break then working the rest of the time. I think I could be happy contracting for a good time, even beyond the point of needing the money. I think once I know the work is optional, and it is not full time/I can take a fair amount of holiday time, I could continue with that model for a lot longer. Another strand is that I would like to be able to give money to charity, so perhaps my combined ideal FIRE strategy would be to have house+500k to guarantee basic FIRE position, then work intermittently/with long holidays as a contractor, so being able to save up a bit more contingency money, have earned money for some luxuries (we're talking 2 week holidays and quality used bikes here, not Ferraris) and being able to give say a third or a half of income to charity (as most of the top slice of earnings would have been tax anyway). I don't know how realistic that all is in combination, but I should be able to get to something like that.


In terms of contracting, I'd say definitely go for it; but know what you are getting into. I've not looked back since making the jump 4 years ago. And be aware the tax situation is getting less and less attractive each year, this year they've fiddled with fixed rate VAT and increased dividend taxes, who knows in what way taxes will increase in the future.

Stubblestache

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Re: UK and Ireland MMM check in and discussion
« Reply #84 on: July 28, 2017, 11:43:51 PM »
@Stubblestache: another short-term investment option is peer-to-peer lending via e.g. Zopa. Zopa quote typical returns of about 6% (that is after allowing for bad debt). I have had money in there for several years and it's been good, and seems to be well-run (I haven't calculated my actual rate of return due to putting money in regularly, though when I last looked properly the bad debt was only about 20% of my earned interest, less than Zopa's projections). You can invest the money then have the interest payments returned to a holding account to withdraw, or sell loans for a 1% fee, so depending on your income and tax bill needs that might be an option to generate a steady return on relatively short term money.

Thanks - i do have some money in p2p but the thing recently with ratesetter having to buy out two wholesale lenders that it had financed because they had defaulted on debts has put the heebie jeebies up me a bit, especially for larger sums.

dreams_and_discoveries

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Re: UK and Ireland MMM check in and discussion
« Reply #85 on: July 29, 2017, 12:38:24 AM »
Yeah, the ratesetter thing kinda spooked me for a bit; however I think they have enough to cover it in their provision fund.

But I'm still toying with the idea of cashing out, the main things that's stopping me is lack of alternative plans for the funds and the fact 'm getting over 6% from them.  And the I think, the casher-outers will all also have 6% + loans, may be worth buying more if rates go up....

What's everyone else doing?

Playing with Fire UK

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Re: UK and Ireland MMM check in and discussion
« Reply #86 on: July 29, 2017, 01:36:53 AM »
I have similar thoughts about Ratesetter. I'm thinking of cashing out and buying some bonds instead. I have a bad feeling in my gut about over-indebtedness in general. This doesn't necessarily make a crash any more likely but it would piss me off no end if it did happen and I was in it. I got into the game slightly later though, so a lot of my loans are at lower than 6%.

UKMustache

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Re: UK and Ireland MMM check in and discussion
« Reply #87 on: July 29, 2017, 01:48:01 AM »
I have similar thoughts about Ratesetter. I'm thinking of cashing out and buying some bonds instead. I have a bad feeling in my gut about over-indebtedness in general. This doesn't necessarily make a crash any more likely but it would piss me off no end if it did happen and I was in it. I got into the game slightly later though, so a lot of my loans are at lower than 6%.

Have you considered going into the 'monthly' market?

I average about 3.2% in that and just review once a month to see if there's any reason I shouldn't re-invest.  Granted mine is only part of the emergency fund so I wouldn't feel it too much if it did go belly up.

weeblesim

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Re: UK and Ireland MMM check in and discussion
« Reply #88 on: July 29, 2017, 02:15:36 AM »
Hi all,

From the North-West, 29 and my partner is 30. I first read MMM a few years ago, but didn't take much notice at the time. Always been on the frugal side anyway, but found MMM again about a year ago and took it much more seriously. The past 3 years I was overpaying the mortgage, but I've switched to investing. I've now got a years expenses saved up or invested which is the most savings I've ever had.

In terms of timeline, if we continue to live in the same house and work in the same industry, we could FIRE in about 10-11 years. Current savings rate is 57%, struggling to get this higher to be honest due to housing and travel expenses. I'm finding that I can either live in a LCOL area and commute to my job, or live in a HCOL and reduce my travel, but the bottom line seems to stay the same when I work it out.

Its good to know there are a few UK mustiachians out there! I don't know about you guys, but I find that some of the advice and techniques on this site don't always translate to the UK that well. Particularly the UK issues around housing.



UKMustache

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Re: UK and Ireland MMM check in and discussion
« Reply #89 on: July 29, 2017, 02:44:26 AM »
Particularly the UK issues around housing.

I agree with you on that.  A lot of people on here talk about really downsizing and buying these tiny apartments... equal to the average 3 bed semi in the UK!


RobFIRE

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Re: UK and Ireland MMM check in and discussion
« Reply #90 on: July 29, 2017, 05:24:28 AM »
I currently work full time in a permanent job in financial services IT. My likely plan in the next few years would be to switch to contracting jobs. Typically the earnings would be 2x as much (or a bit more when maximising pension tax relief, and 3x as much if I got the right contacts, and that's without any of the tax dodges) while working, though clearly without the guarantee of working all the time. I think that would suit me as I would ideally have a working model of a ~3 month summer break then working the rest of the time. I think I could be happy contracting for a good time, even beyond the point of needing the money. I think once I know the work is optional, and it is not full time/I can take a fair amount of holiday time, I could continue with that model for a lot longer. Another strand is that I would like to be able to give money to charity, so perhaps my combined ideal FIRE strategy would be to have house+500k to guarantee basic FIRE position, then work intermittently/with long holidays as a contractor, so being able to save up a bit more contingency money, have earned money for some luxuries (we're talking 2 week holidays and quality used bikes here, not Ferraris) and being able to give say a third or a half of income to charity (as most of the top slice of earnings would have been tax anyway). I don't know how realistic that all is in combination, but I should be able to get to something like that.


In terms of contracting, I'd say definitely go for it; but know what you are getting into. I've not looked back since making the jump 4 years ago. And be aware the tax situation is getting less and less attractive each year, this year they've fiddled with fixed rate VAT and increased dividend taxes, who knows in what way taxes will increase in the future.
Yes, Osborne increased the dividend taxes. Though if I were contracting I would be looking to do it via an umbrella agency with a salary sacrifice pension, rather than own company and pay as dividends. While I'm not sure as a contractor why I should have to pay both full ER and EE NI (umbrella agency; I couldn't claim statutory redundancy etc. so the NI rate should be lower I think), I don't think it's right to only pay tax at dividend rates (own company), if you earn £50k plus and regular employees pay top slice at 42% tax (40% + 2% NI) then you should pay a similar rate as a contractor. That's my opinion anyway. So dividends/VAT wouldn't affect me, though the general point that contractor tax could change is true, and I would generally expect that the tax benefits of contracting will get less and less over time. But with 2x gross earnings or more, even if tax basis is the same, it is still better paid with the risk of not always having work.

Monkeytennis

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Re: UK and Ireland MMM check in and discussion
« Reply #91 on: July 29, 2017, 10:15:29 AM »
So until we get out own board, I have a few questions / areas to discuss, the first one being...

Is there a UK specific investment hierarchy / decision tree? I've seen US ones but not UK specific - I feel really over exposed to the lifetime pension allowance and figure there must be a logic of where to put money next (between pensions, ISA's and other tax free vehicles and based on different levels of tax e.g. for higher rate tax payers, for those going above £150k a year and losing all their personal allowance etc)?

Helium

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Re: UK and Ireland MMM check in and discussion
« Reply #92 on: July 29, 2017, 12:45:23 PM »
Hi

I'm from the suburbs of London, and work as a lawyer in the City. I'm 25 and lucky enough to have a great relationship with my parents who are very happy for me to live with them. That plus the (relatively) high salary means my savings rate is comfortably 90%+. Current net worth is approximately £100k.

The aim is to save up around £500k plus enough for a small place in a LCOL part of the UK, and then FIRE. I haven't properly done the maths to work out how long that will take, as there seem too many uncertain variables to make it a useful exercise, but a ball park estimate is about 10 years from now if I stick to private practice and work through the normal career progression.

I'm pretty minimalist by nature so the expense-minimising side of it isn't too difficult for me. I don't feel like I am missing out by not spending on expensive holidays / cars / clothes etc. I don't want kids either which is good from a FIRE perspective (though people invariably tell me my mind will change). The harder part at the moment is dealing with the job, as it is pretty stressful and the hours can be brutal. The focus is on toughing it out and developing myself professionally, and hopefully with more experience and seniority will come greater autonomy, control and a sense of enjoyment in my work. (Or I'll burn out and go do something else!)

Playing with Fire UK

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Re: UK and Ireland MMM check in and discussion
« Reply #93 on: July 30, 2017, 01:57:55 AM »
So until we get out own board, I have a few questions / areas to discuss, the first one being...

Is there a UK specific investment hierarchy / decision tree? I've seen US ones but not UK specific - I feel really over exposed to the lifetime pension allowance and figure there must be a logic of where to put money next (between pensions, ISA's and other tax free vehicles and based on different levels of tax e.g. for higher rate tax payers, for those going above £150k a year and losing all their personal allowance etc)?

I haven't seen anything, I agree it needs to be a decision tree rather than the seven step process that works for the US.

First would be paying off high interest debt and saving an emergency fund to your liking.

Then contributing to a workplace pension up to the match.

Easy cases first:

For someone under 40, who hasn't bought a home, wants to buy a home => Lifetime ISA

Planning to cease earning after the private pension access age (PPAA), and expecting to be in a lower tax band and either paying 40/45% tax or access to salary sacrifice => pension or SIPP.

Have inadequate savings for post-PPAA in a pension, and paying 40/45% tax, and expecting to spend fewer than 20 years between FIRE and PPAA, and concerned about pension contributions become less generous, and not concerned about tax favourable withdrawals going away => pension or SIPP.

Beyond that ISA.

Beyond that taxable accounts (considering the balance of the Capital Gains tax and dividends allowance).

Then fancier things: VCT, SEIS

Consider Buy to Let if you can identify an edge (able to self manage, low tax band, group of heavies available to get the rent paid...).

Comments and questions please...

Kwill

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Re: UK and Ireland MMM check in and discussion
« Reply #94 on: July 30, 2017, 02:01:26 AM »
So until we get our own board...

We have our own board now! It's under 'Taxes', but still it may be a good place to bring up these questions about investments specific to the UK.

shelivesthedream

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Re: UK and Ireland MMM check in and discussion
« Reply #95 on: July 30, 2017, 02:09:07 AM »
So until we get our own board...

We have our own board now! It's under 'Taxes', but still it may be a good place to bring up these questions about investments specific to the UK.

Yes, please let's all flood over there and make it really active to show how grateful we are and how needed it was! Post ALL THE THINGS!

Monkeytennis

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Re: UK and Ireland MMM check in and discussion
« Reply #96 on: July 30, 2017, 02:15:29 AM »
So until we get out own board, I have a few questions / areas to discuss, the first one being...

Is there a UK specific investment hierarchy / decision tree? I've seen US ones but not UK specific - I feel really over exposed to the lifetime pension allowance and figure there must be a logic of where to put money next (between pensions, ISA's and other tax free vehicles and based on different levels of tax e.g. for higher rate tax payers, for those going above £150k a year and losing all their personal allowance etc)?

I haven't seen anything, I agree it needs to be a decision tree rather than the seven step process that works for the US.

First would be paying off high interest debt and saving an emergency fund to your liking.

Then contributing to a workplace pension up to the match.

Easy cases first:

For someone under 40, who hasn't bought a home, wants to buy a home => Lifetime ISA

Planning to cease earning after the private pension access age (PPAA), and expecting to be in a lower tax band and either paying 40/45% tax or access to salary sacrifice => pension or SIPP.

Have inadequate savings for post-PPAA in a pension, and paying 40/45% tax, and expecting to spend fewer than 20 years between FIRE and PPAA, and concerned about pension contributions become less generous, and not concerned about tax favourable withdrawals going away => pension or SIPP.

Beyond that ISA.

Beyond that taxable accounts (considering the balance of the Capital Gains tax and dividends allowance).

Then fancier things: VCT, SEIS

Consider Buy to Let if you can identify an edge (able to self manage, low tax band, group of heavies available to get the rent paid...).

Comments and questions please...

Yes basically this would be a great starting point for the decision tree

Monkeytennis

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Re: UK and Ireland MMM check in and discussion
« Reply #97 on: July 30, 2017, 02:16:50 AM »

Playing with Fire UK

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Re: UK and Ireland MMM check in and discussion
« Reply #98 on: July 30, 2017, 09:33:47 AM »
So until we get out own board, I have a few questions / areas to discuss, the first one being...

Is there a UK specific investment hierarchy / decision tree? I've seen US ones but not UK specific - I feel really over exposed to the lifetime pension allowance and figure there must be a logic of where to put money next (between pensions, ISA's and other tax free vehicles and based on different levels of tax e.g. for higher rate tax payers, for those going above £150k a year and losing all their personal allowance etc)?

I haven't seen anything, I agree it needs to be a decision tree rather than the seven step process that works for the US.

First would be paying off high interest debt and saving an emergency fund to your liking.

Then contributing to a workplace pension up to the match.

Easy cases first:

For someone under 40, who hasn't bought a home, wants to buy a home => Lifetime ISA

Planning to cease earning after the private pension access age (PPAA), and expecting to be in a lower tax band and either paying 40/45% tax or access to salary sacrifice => pension or SIPP.

Have inadequate savings for post-PPAA in a pension, and paying 40/45% tax, and expecting to spend fewer than 20 years between FIRE and PPAA, and concerned about pension contributions become less generous, and not concerned about tax favourable withdrawals going away => pension or SIPP.

Beyond that ISA.

Beyond that taxable accounts (considering the balance of the Capital Gains tax and dividends allowance).

Then fancier things: VCT, SEIS

Consider Buy to Let if you can identify an edge (able to self manage, low tax band, group of heavies available to get the rent paid...).

Comments and questions please...

Yes basically this would be a great starting point for the decision tree

See here and here!

Runner5

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Re: UK and Ireland MMM check in and discussion
« Reply #99 on: July 30, 2017, 10:55:01 AM »
Coming in fashionably late to the party :)

28f, living in a pretty LCOL area of South Yorkshire.
Work for local government, so downside is pretty poor salary and below-inflation raises each year, but upside is that I have a ridiculously good pension that kicks in at 55, which I'm making my goal retirement age
Also planning for either a 1 year sabbatical or a 2 year reduction in hours in about 4 years' time to do an MA full / part time (depending on how big my 'stache grows)