Uber for picking up kids at school

[FiguringItOut]

 

I'm assuming the kids don't have to pay to travel by public transport? I know when we visited DC, I quickly figured out that it was cheaper/the same for the 4 of us to move around using uber instead of paying for 4 of us to use public transport - even for the long journey from DC to Baltimore airport. When I traveled there by myself for work, I primarily used the train/metro since that was cheaper than uber. It's rare that uber/taxi would be cheaper for one person vs bus/subway/train.

No, kids have to pay.  The $40 I listed includes tickets for me and kids.  My younger one's ticket is only $2 right now, but she will age out of the kids' ticket price in June. 
Right now it's $11.50 for me and my older kid and $2 for younger one for train tickets plus two bus fares for both kids to get to the train, I use my monthly subway/buss pass so no extra cost for me.
And on the way back my train ticket is $9 because it's a non-peak train, so lower.  If I take train back to an earlier stop and switch to subway it's $4.50 for the train instead of $9.  Staring in June my younger one will have to pay a full fare of $11.50 instead of $2.  I already have trouble with her on the train because she look a lot older and every time I have a conversation with conductor proving that she's eligible, so I won't be able to sneak her in on the kids' fare after her birthday.

I'm sorry you are going through this! Have you looked into renting a car for those days? My roommate in college did not have a car, but we often needed one for trips to the store or appointments. She would just rent a car one or two days a month and it was much, much cheaper than owning one. At least in our area.

Around here a car rental is $100+ per day plus I'll have to buy insurance.  And take a bus/subway to the closest rental place.  Not an option.

Do you have good relations with the Ex? You could ask if he would be willing to pick them up in exchange for a portion of what it would costs you.

Plus he gets to see them a bit longer. Win-win.

Yes and no.  He made it very clear and insisted on including into the divorce agreement that we share drop off and pick up equally.  Also, to be honest, for him to drive to my place on Friday evening will be a 2+ hour drive just to get to me because of Friday rush hour. 
He is doing me a favor and agreed to do pickups on Friday when I absolutely cann't during the winter when my work is especially busy and I simply won't be home till 9-10pm.  But then I will have to go and pick them up form him on Sundays.  He won't do both unless there are extenuating circumstances.

[FiguringItOut]

What about zipcar?

Don't have one in my area, I already checked

[4alpacas]

What about zipcar?

Don't have one in my area, I already checked

Have you looked into other similar carsharing situations?  https://www.enterprisecarshare.com/us/en/home.html/brandName=Carpingo.html

[teacherwithamustache]

Thanks for all of the replies...

To the person who said she can not pick up her kids because she works and thought it was a joke of me asking...

No it was not a joke.  I guess my wife and I planned our kids and their schedules and life changes to a more precise degree then most.  If you can not take and pick up your kids to their activity then don't sign them up for the activity.  School times really do not change that much.  Plan your careers and commute around the need to supervise your kids.  Honestly, we put off kids for a couple of years because we were not in a position for one of us (me) to have a flexible job.  Your children deserve all the time they can get from their parents.  Plan accordingly if at all possible.

[teacherwithamustache]

Plan your careers and commute around the need to supervise your kids.  Honestly, we put off kids for a couple of years because we were not in a position for one of us (me) to have a flexible job.  Your children deserve all the time they can get from their parents.  Plan accordingly if at all possible.

So nice that your life has worked out exactly according to plan.  It doesn't for everybody.  Lives change (and sometimes end).  Careers change (and sometimes end).  Marriages change (and sometimes end). 

I hope everything keeps going well for you but you might want to hold back a bit on the self-righteousness.  Karma is a bitch.....

Yeah I can see where you are coming from with what I typed.  I mean it more as a "planning kid time and schedules" needs to be part of the discussion before you decide to have a family and get married.  I am very fortunate and very lucky and love all of my daddy time.  It is like crack to me, I am very addicted and want everyone to join in the awesomeness with me with their on kids.

[mm1970]

Thanks for all of the replies...

To the person who said she can not pick up her kids because she works and thought it was a joke of me asking...

No it was not a joke.  I guess my wife and I planned our kids and their schedules and life changes to a more precise degree then most.  If you can not take and pick up your kids to their activity then don't sign them up for the activity.  School times really do not change that much.  Plan your careers and commute around the need to supervise your kids.  Honestly, we put off kids for a couple of years because we were not in a position for one of us (me) to have a flexible job.  Your children deserve all the time they can get from their parents.  Plan accordingly if at all possible.

This is a little bit out of touch - but hey,  your username says "teacher" in it, so it's not too surprising. 

You have a job that is certainly "special" as it's almost exactly on the school schedule. Most people do not have those jobs.  (I, for one, never wanted to be a teacher.)

The vast majority of jobs are not on the school schedule.  They simply aren't.  If you feel like anyone can have that schedule then you are sincerely out of touch.

While many "professionals" do get to the point where they can have flexibility - there are different kinds.  It's one thing to leave early once a week.  I leave early on PTA meeting days (once a month).  I go in late once a week so I can volunteer at the school.  And I work late in return.

But leave at 2:50 every day to pick up my child at 3:10?  Oh wait, except for early release day, when they get out at 1:30 pm.  That is not my reality.  My company will not allow for that.  I did, at one point, work part time.  They will no longer let me do that. 

The school day is from 8:30 until 1:30 or 3:10.  That's not even 7 hours.  Add in two children and two different locations.  Then, at most, you are working what, 5 or 6 hours?  That's a pretty sweet deal.

Even with after school care, I have to take PTO when my spouse is traveling.  School -> childcare -> work.  Work -> childcare -> school.  School drop off by 8:30, pick up after school at 5:30.  That means: at work by 9, and must leave by 4:15 or 4:30 pm.  At very most, that's a 7.5 hour work day.

Our children do get time with their parents.  2.5 to 3 hours in the morning, 3.5 to 5 hours every evening, plus weekends, holidays, vacation days, sick days. 

[BeanCounter]

Thanks for all of the replies...

To the person who said she can not pick up her kids because she works and thought it was a joke of me asking...

No it was not a joke.  I guess my wife and I planned our kids and their schedules and life changes to a more precise degree then most.  If you can not take and pick up your kids to their activity then don't sign them up for the activity.  School times really do not change that much.  Plan your careers and commute around the need to supervise your kids.  Honestly, we put off kids for a couple of years because we were not in a position for one of us (me) to have a flexible job.  Your children deserve all the time they can get from their parents.  Plan accordingly if at all possible.

So basically we should all either be a stay at home parent, a teacher, work part time, or not have kids at all??? Because those are the only careers that allow one to work during the average school day. But even those can have issues. Lets say you do work part time, what do you do on the random sick or snow day, call in???
The fact that you have no clue what the majority of the work force goes through makes me really scared that you are an educator.

[justajane]

mm1970 - You paint a disingenuous picture of a teacher's life.  Most teachers I know have to utilize after school care. In fact, I know one who has to use both before and after school care in order to get everything done she has to do at school. I know nothing about the OP's schedule, but most teachers arrive by 7:00 or 7:30 and don't leave until after 4.

[BeanCounter]

mm1970 - You paint a disingenuous picture of a teacher's life.  Most teachers I know have to utilize after school care. In fact, I know one who has to use both before and after school care in order to get everything done she has to do at school. I know nothing about the OP's schedule, but most teachers arrive by 7:00 or 7:30 and don't leave until after 4.

You make a really good point. Actually one of my good friends is a high school teacher with infants she has an issue because she has to be at school by 6:45 and can't find a close daycare that opens that early or anyone to put her elementary aged son on the bus at 7:45 at home. Where is he supposed to go to before school???
I guess she should just stay home and let her husband work. smh

[justajane]

mm1970 - You paint a disingenuous picture of a teacher's life.  Most teachers I know have to utilize after school care. In fact, I know one who has to use both before and after school care in order to get everything done she has to do at school. I know nothing about the OP's schedule, but most teachers arrive by 7:00 or 7:30 and don't leave until after 4.

You make a really good point. Actually one of my good friends is a high school teacher with infants she has an issue because she has to be at school by 6:45 and can't find a close daycare that opens that early or anyone to put her elementary aged son on the bus at 7:45 at home. Where is he supposed to go to before school???
I guess she should just stay home and let her husband work. smh

Yeah, the school district in which your friend works should have early morning care. I know another school in our district that has early morning care starting at 6:30, but maybe that's rare? IMO they should have pre-7 a.m. care if there are teachers that have to be at school that early. But not all teachers send their kids to the school district in which they work. I leave the house to walk my elementary aged kid to school at 7 a.m. When we arrive at 7:15, I can't imagine that the vast majority of the teachers aren't already in the building. And I know for a fact that teachers aren't out the door at 2:45 when school ends, since I often pick my child up for programs at 4ish and tons of them are still walking around.

Don't even get me started on principals and how people usually whine about how much money they make. But what they don't really think about is that if the doors to the school are open, they are almost always there. They are expected to attend every event, every meeting almost, every picnic, every game, etc. I would guess that principals work at least 50 hours a week. Maybe more.

[iwasjustwondering]

Thanks for all of the replies...

To the person who said she can not pick up her kids because she works and thought it was a joke of me asking...

If you can not take and pick up your kids to their activity then don't sign them up for the activity. 

Again, you've got to be kidding me.  My 16yo shouldn't run cross country because he has to take the activity bus home, rather than being driven by his mommy?  That is completely insane.  When he takes the activity bus home, he and I arrive back at the house at  the same time, so my working doesn't actually cause him to miss any mommy time at all.  I might as well do something while the kids are busy -- oh I know -- I'll earn $230,000 a year!  Why not?

I'm raising these people to be strong, independent men, not precious hothouse flowers.  I was home with them for seven years, but at this age, if they wanted to spend the hour or two directly after school with their mother rather than their peers, and wanted it so desperately that I might be induced to quit the job that feeds, shelters and educates them, it would be a bit worrying.

[mm1970]

mm1970 - You paint a disingenuous picture of a teacher's life.  Most teachers I know have to utilize after school care. In fact, I know one who has to use both before and after school care in order to get everything done she has to do at school. I know nothing about the OP's schedule, but most teachers arrive by 7:00 or 7:30 and don't leave until after 4.

Oh sure, I didn't mean to suggest that.  Most teachers I know work longer hours - but they do have more "flexibility" when it comes to be out of work around the time their kids are out of school.  (It's not really terribly flexible.  The teachers can't volunteer for the jogathon that's during the day, because they are teaching, for example.  So it's a limited flexibility.)

The ones with young children tend to do it at home.  I see them in the morning, but they leave very soon after school is out, and work after the kids are in bed.
Those with grown children - many are still there at 5:20 when I pick up my son at school.  Well, I can think of two in particular (my two favorites in fact).

I bristled at the suggestion that "all you need to do is choose the right job or career and POOF! It works out."  Because it doesn't.
My older son's daycare was a home daycare.  Most of the kids there were teacher's kids.  Well, there was a period of time where there just weren't many teacher's kids anymore.  She had a bit of a rough time finding new charges.  She wanted kids to be picked up by 4:30 at the latest.  The teachers kids were picked up by 3:30 or 3:45.

[RootofGood]

Wow, I'm a little surprised but not sure why. 

As a parent, it's kind of genius.  Depending on where our kid ends up for middle school next year, I'll have to strongly think about letting her use my Uber account.  It's like $9 off peak from the downtown area to our house, and it would save me a 25-30 minute round trip plus a buck or two in gas and wear and tear.  Of course she could hop on the city bus and pay $1.50 and do the same trip, but somehow I feel like the Uber is safer overall (there's walking across a 10 lane road with the bus trip). 

[bogart]

I am very fortunate and very lucky and love all of my daddy time.  It is like crack to me, I am very addicted and want everyone to join in the awesomeness with me with their on kids.

Great, and thanks.  But I've found that the awesomeness of my own kid and my own awesomeness as a mom increases dramatically when we do not spend too much time together.  What's too much no doubt varies significantly by parent (and child), but taking the time to pick my kid up after school every day and then spending the rest of the day with him would diminish, not improve, the quality of our time together.  It's great that you've achieved something that's ideal for you, but it doesn't mean that those of us who haven't achieved it are necessarily having less ideal experiences.  We're all different.

I don't know how old your (the OP's) kids are and again all kids (and all schools, towns, etc.) are different, but I certainly hope that by somewhere between 12-16 my kid is finding his own way around town, using the public buses, etc., and that I don't always know where he is or what he's up to.  (Certainly by junior high I was walking myself to/from my orthodontist appointments, about 2 mi. r/t, during school hours while my parents worked.  I loved the freedom, and the walk.).  Indeed one of my key goals (right after goal #1:  always fasten your seatbelt) as a parent even now (DS is a 3rd grader) is teaching him that stuff is worth doing whether I am present/watching him do it or not -- thus, for example, I sometimes go for a run while he's at basketball practice.  The "whether someone's watching or not" is a claim that can have a deep moral meaning -- do the right thing even if you won't get caught doing the wrong thing -- but in this era when many seem to want to post pics of every meal they ate, and to have parents at every soccer practice they attend, I also mean it in a more superficial sense -- I hope my son will grow up to enjoy doing stuff just because he enjoys it, and not because anyone is rooting him on or "liking" images of it on FB.

Final thought on this topic, when I was in college the one thing I wish I'd known to/how to do, but didn't, was call a cab.  No college (high school?) kid should go out with friends without feeling readily confident that they have a safe way to get home if their original plans fall through (or if, ahem, the behavior of the people they are with makes them feel uncomfortable or unsafe).  Maybe through high school, "call me if you need a ride" from a parent is enough.  But unless one stays in one's parents' hometown for college, that's not going to work forever.  The Uber option hadn't even occurred to me, but it's certainly the kind of thing I want my kid to know how to do -- and to feel comfortable doing -- before he fledges.

[Venturing]

Here we have companies that are a mix between a taxi and a helper.

A lot of elderly folks use them. Eg if they need to go to medical appointment the driver can come to the house, help them into the car, take them to the appointment, go into the appointment with them if they choose, and then return them home again afterwards. Or they can take a person shopping etc.

You can have the same drive reach time so that you get to know them.

I know that people use this sort of service for their kids. A bit pricey but more appropriate than a taxi for people who are too young or otherwise unable to manage on their own.

Driving miss daisy nz is one example of this type of Service

[MoonShadow]

So I am a teacher at a not so affluent HS but not dirt poor.  I was on duty outside at pick up the other day when I noticed a car come in, driver get out and yell one of my kids names.  She then gets into the back seat and takes off.  A couple of days later the same driver yells a different kids name and he gets in and takes off.  I talk to the girl in class and she tells me that she has an UBER account and anytime she stays late or has a game after school and her parents can not pick her up she orders an Uber car.  She is 15 or 16 now and says she has done it since she was 12, and does it about 5 times a week including weekends.  I then ask my students in class how prevalent this is and about 2/3 have said they have done it and 1/3 do it 3+ times a week.


This raises several questions that I would like you opinions on:


Would you let your 12-16 year old have an Uber account?

Yes, but 5 days a week is excessive. Ride the bus.

Are parents really this busy so that they can not pick up their kids?

Some are, certainly.  I have 5 kids, and I can honestly say that I've considered getting my teenagers, who already have cell phones anyway, Lyft accounts.  When there are only 2 licensed drivers & 7 total family members, it's not hard to run into a scheduling conflict.  Two of my boys (6&7) are both in YMCA basketball this year, but in different leagues (5&6 versus 7&8), on January 30th, both of them will have basketball games at 10am, at different elementary schools, while at the same time my two teenagers are supposed to be at a bowling league game (together).  That's a tricky problem that can be solved with a Lyft or Uber account.

And my wife & I aren't particularly overscheduled ourselves.  My wife is a SAHM.  Sometimes life just works that way.  For the occasional scheduling conflict such as above, Uber or Lyft is much cheaper than buying a 16 year old a car and paying for the insurance.

What happened to riding your bike home?

In some locales, that's actually illegal now.

Is there a market for a kid centered ride sharing program?

I'd say so.  You have the evidence yourself, but how would being more niche than Uber work?

Should anyone ever buy their kid a car now when it is more economical to fund their Uber account?

Unless they have a part time job to pay for the gas & insurance, probably not.  There is already a rise in the number of teenagers who delay getting a driver's permit.  If all they do is drive to school and then the mall on Saturday; make them ride the school bus and they can have a round-trip each weekend, if necessary.

[MoonShadow]

Here we have companies that are a mix between a taxi and a helper.

A lot of elderly folks use them.

There are several people in my wife's family who are legally blind.  Every one of them has a Lyft account now, and use it regularly.  Not daily, mind you, but often enough to know many of the regular drivers in their area.

[WerKater]

What happened to riding your bike home?

In some locales, that's actually illegal now.

Huh? What silliness is this? Do you have a reference for this? I think I am in the mood to marvel at some insanity today.

[MoonShadow]

What happened to riding your bike home?

In some locales, that's actually illegal now.

Huh? What silliness is this? Do you have a reference for this? I think I am in the mood to marvel at some insanity today.

Here you go....

http://bikeportland.org/2009/08/19/national-organization-finds-that-bike-to-school-bans-are-on-the-rise-22560



Here you go.

http://bikeportland.org/2009/08/19/national-organization-finds-that-bike-to-school-bans-are-on-the-rise-22560

[markbrynn]

No it was not a joke.  I guess my wife and I planned our kids and their schedules and life changes to a more precise degree then most.  If you can not take and pick up your kids to their activity then don't sign them up for the activity.  School times really do not change that much.  Plan your careers and commute around the need to supervise your kids.  Honestly, we put off kids for a couple of years because we were not in a position for one of us (me) to have a flexible job.  Your children deserve all the time they can get from their parents.  Plan accordingly if at all possible.

To all the people who bashed on the above comment, I hope you kept your mind open enough to get the good part of what was said. Here on MMM, it often said that people must take control of their lives and stop blaming circumstances (or other people) for their problems. While it is true that there are many families where both parents reasonably need to work (or single parent families), it is also true that many people make decisions about their life independently from other decisions (e.g. highest paid job but with no time for family).

For example, why is it unreasonable to expect somebody to consider transport to/from the children's school when they are choosing a house? There are loads of places where children can walk or cycle to school from a young age due to the distance and safety. Other communities have good bus systems and before/after school programs. The same goes for any number of other decisions like applying for jobs.

[BeanCounter]

To everyone saying ride the bus, walk or ride your bike to school. I actually live in a fairly large district so riding your bike or walking are not an option. And when the recession happened and the school couldn't pass levies guess what they cut- BUSING.
I certainly voted for the levy, but it's a suburban area that has a lot of older people with grown children.
I'm sure lots of people would say you should move, but many other school districts with similar ratings are similar. My other option would be to move to an urban area- cheaper housing (a plus), slightly higher crime rate, and lower rated schools but- FREE BUSING!!

[teacherwithamustache]

Thanks for all of the replies...

To the person who said she can not pick up her kids because she works and thought it was a joke of me asking...

If you can not take and pick up your kids to their activity then don't sign them up for the activity. 

Again, you've got to be kidding me.  My 16yo shouldn't run cross country because he has to take the activity bus home, rather than being driven by his mommy?  That is completely insane.  When he takes the activity bus home, he and I arrive back at the house at  the same time, so my working doesn't actually cause him to miss any mommy time at all.  I might as well do something while the kids are busy -- oh I know -- I'll earn $230,000 a year!  Why not?

I'm raising these people to be strong, independent men, not precious hothouse flowers.  I was home with them for seven years, but at this age, if they wanted to spend the hour or two directly after school with their mother rather than their peers, and wanted it so desperately that I might be induced to quit the job that feeds, shelters and educates them, it would be a bit worrying.

No not at all... The bus home or activity bus home is a great way to get home.  Having your 12 year old kid jump on UBER 3 days a week is bad planning.  I think I am good with a 16 year old on Uber, 12 year old not so much.

[MoonShadow]

   Having your 12 year old kid jump on UBER 3 days a week is bad planning.  I think I am good with a 16 year old on Uber, 12 year old not so much.

That would depend greatly upon the child, and his/her parents.  Just choosing an arbitrary age for your own children to be able to use a ridesharing service is fine, but keep in mind that it is arbitrary, and not specific to any particular child.  I've known kids that have been riding the public transit system since they were 6 with older siblings, and alone since 9.  And a public transit system is much more complex, easier to get hurt, lost or robbed; and with much less accountability than Uber.  At least Uber knows who is driving your kids around.  While it certainly has risks that should be taken into consideration, I think that is between the kids and their parents to consider.  As for myself, if I considered any of my kids mature enough to ride their bikes to school (a mile from my house), I'd consider them mature enough to get a ride to an event & back from a semi-professional driver.  It's not like it's just some random adult claiming to know your kid from a sports league the prior summer; if you wish, you can look up who the drivers are.

[La Bibliotecaria Feroz]

At least Uber knows who is driving your kids around.

I'm not sure this is always true. Haven't there been cases of people sharing, trading, or even selling Uber accounts? Maybe they've solved this problem, but you better believe I would look into it.

Also, remember they are not SUPPOSED to carry minors. So by letting your minor use Uber, you are letting them ride with drivers who are willing to break their own rules. I just wouldn't do it. Not for a middle schooler, at least.

[MoonShadow]

At least Uber knows who is driving your kids around.

I'm not sure this is always true. Haven't there been cases of people sharing, trading, or even selling Uber accounts? Maybe they've solved this problem, but you better believe I would look into it.

I believe those were rider accounts, not driver accounts.  But it's a fair point.

[iwasjustwondering]

Thanks for all of the replies...

To the person who said she can not pick up her kids because she works and thought it was a joke of me asking...

If you can not take and pick up your kids to their activity then don't sign them up for the activity. 

Again, you've got to be kidding me.  My 16yo shouldn't run cross country because he has to take the activity bus home, rather than being driven by his mommy?  That is completely insane.  When he takes the activity bus home, he and I arrive back at the house at  the same time, so my working doesn't actually cause him to miss any mommy time at all.  I might as well do something while the kids are busy -- oh I know -- I'll earn $230,000 a year!  Why not?

I'm raising these people to be strong, independent men, not precious hothouse flowers.  I was home with them for seven years, but at this age, if they wanted to spend the hour or two directly after school with their mother rather than their peers, and wanted it so desperately that I might be induced to quit the job that feeds, shelters and educates them, it would be a bit worrying.

No not at all... The bus home or activity bus home is a great way to get home.  Having your 12 year old kid jump on UBER 3 days a week is bad planning.  I think I am good with a 16 year old on Uber, 12 year old not so much.

I wouldn't even let my 16yo take Uber home, actually.  I just object to the idea that parents should always be available to drive their children in the middle of the workday. 

[mm1970]

No it was not a joke.  I guess my wife and I planned our kids and their schedules and life changes to a more precise degree then most.  If you can not take and pick up your kids to their activity then don't sign them up for the activity.  School times really do not change that much.  Plan your careers and commute around the need to supervise your kids.  Honestly, we put off kids for a couple of years because we were not in a position for one of us (me) to have a flexible job.  Your children deserve all the time they can get from their parents.  Plan accordingly if at all possible.

To all the people who bashed on the above comment, I hope you kept your mind open enough to get the good part of what was said. Here on MMM, it often said that people must take control of their lives and stop blaming circumstances (or other people) for their problems. While it is true that there are many families where both parents reasonably need to work (or single parent families), it is also true that many people make decisions about their life independently from other decisions (e.g. highest paid job but with no time for family).

For example, why is it unreasonable to expect somebody to consider transport to/from the children's school when they are choosing a house? There are loads of places where children can walk or cycle to school from a young age due to the distance and safety. Other communities have good bus systems and before/after school programs. The same goes for any number of other decisions like applying for jobs.

I chose my career at 18.

I chose my husband at 26.

I bought my house at 34, unsure if we would even have children.

I had children at 36 and 42.

I was well ensconced in my jobs when my children were born.  I was, in fact, allowed to go part time with both of them, for awhile.  For my first, at one point, I got a new boss: go full time or else. 
So I quit - I called up a former boss at a new company, and got a part time job.
But then the company grew and I had to go full time.  No biggie, one kid, preschool close to our house, worked it out no problem.

Then the second kid.  Went part time again.  New boss: go full time
I don't want to quit.
There are no part time jobs in this town anymore.  There aren't many 40 hour a week jobs either, they all want 45 or 50.  IN my experience, it's easier to get flexibility where you ARE.
Got a new boss.  "What can I do for you?"  "Let me go part time".  "No, next?"
Luckily, I have another new boss (my 8th in 7 years at this company) who has two kids, both near my older son's age.  So, he gets it.  I have flexibility.  I can work from home.  I can come in late or leave early.  He does every day (one or the other).  But I am not allowed to work part time. 
(Working from home is great, but good luck "working" with a 3 year old).

As far as "taking control of your own life" - I mean, I get it.  I've pretty much gotten whatever I wanted.  School, work, family. I say "I want this" and I got it, because I'm good at my job.  I wanted part time work, I got it. I  wanted a promotion, I got it.  I'm where I am because I've worked for it.

But at some point, when I hit my 40's, that all ended.  It's a struggle.  I'm learning, now in my mid-40s, that I can't control everything.  What's that quote about changing what I can, accepting what I can't, the wisdom to know the difference?  I've spent quite a few years fighting against the tide, and it kind of makes me tired.  I can't do it anymore.  I'm happier when I accept what I cannot change.  I try to change it, doesn't happen, I try again, doesn't happen, then I move on.

My choices, right now, are: work full time, or not work.  It's not a cop out, it's the honest truth.  So I work.  And making statements about how you can "design your own life" is great and all, but the VAST majority of workers in this country are at the mercy, so to speak, of the employers.  Especially if you have no desire to be an entrepreneur.  At some point you may hit a brick wall.

If it didn't happen to you, great.  If it didn't happen to the person who originally made the comment, great.

It's like saying "well, why don't you bike to work, and why didn't you buy a house where you could??"  Um, maybe because people buy houses when they have one job, and then they change jobs??  Circumstances change all the time.

[merula]

If it didn't happen to you, great.  If it didn't happen to the person who originally made the comment, great.

It's like saying "well, why don't you bike to work, and why didn't you buy a house where you could??"  Um, maybe because people buy houses when they have one job, and then they change jobs??  Circumstances change all the time.

This, and everything else mm1970 said.

[RootofGood]

It's like saying "well, why don't you bike to work, and why didn't you buy a house where you could??"  Um, maybe because people buy houses when they have one job, and then they change jobs??  Circumstances change all the time.

And in a similar vein, what's the likelihood that your kids' elementary, middle, and high schools will all be within walking/biking distance or on a convenient bus route? 

We are fortunate to send our kids to the neighborhood elementary school 0.5 miles away, and we walk every day unless it's pouring down rain or it's 7 degrees. 

The nearest middle school is 3 miles away and would require biking on a 10+ lane road (aka deathtrap).  Bus is sort of convenient.  But the school isn't great so we're sending our kids to a better option that's further away and possibly not on any bus route and outside of a reasonable walk/bike radius.

The nearest 4-5 high schools are all pushing it on biking distance and not convenient by transit at all. 

Since we'll have kids in elementary, middle, and HS all at the same time, it's impossible to find that perfect spot to live where all the schools are walkable/bikeable or accessible by transit.

[MoonShadow]

Since we'll have kids in elementary, middle, and HS all at the same time, it's impossible to find that perfect spot to live where all the schools are walkable/bikeable or accessible by transit.

That really sounds like poor urban planning.

[mm1970]

It's like saying "well, why don't you bike to work, and why didn't you buy a house where you could??"  Um, maybe because people buy houses when they have one job, and then they change jobs??  Circumstances change all the time.

And in a similar vein, what's the likelihood that your kids' elementary, middle, and high schools will all be within walking/biking distance or on a convenient bus route? 

We are fortunate to send our kids to the neighborhood elementary school 0.5 miles away, and we walk every day unless it's pouring down rain or it's 7 degrees. 

The nearest middle school is 3 miles away and would require biking on a 10+ lane road (aka deathtrap).  Bus is sort of convenient.  But the school isn't great so we're sending our kids to a better option that's further away and possibly not on any bus route and outside of a reasonable walk/bike radius.

The nearest 4-5 high schools are all pushing it on biking distance and not convenient by transit at all. 

Since we'll have kids in elementary, middle, and HS all at the same time, it's impossible to find that perfect spot to live where all the schools are walkable/bikeable or accessible by transit.

Yes! My son's school is walkable. But my 2 kids will only be there together for one year (kinder/6).

The junior  high is probably walkable.

The high school is not, and there are no good bus routes.

[mm1970]

Since we'll have kids in elementary, middle, and HS all at the same time, it's impossible to find that perfect spot to live where all the schools are walkable/bikeable or accessible by transit.

That really sounds like poor urban planning.

Or rural, or whatever.

Where I grew up, it was rural, so...a 14 mile radius for a school district.

I live in a small city now - too small to have a really great bus system.  And of course it's cheaper to have fewer schools.  There are only 3 high schools.  Some areas don't have bus service at all.

[RootofGood]

Since we'll have kids in elementary, middle, and HS all at the same time, it's impossible to find that perfect spot to live where all the schools are walkable/bikeable or accessible by transit.

That really sounds like poor urban planning.

Is it really common to have elementary, middle, and high schools all within range of walk/bike or easy transit?  Would that make for good urban planning?  Without Manhattan-like density and Manhattan-like public transit options, I don't think it's especially feasible for all (or most) residents of a community to have walk, bike, or transit access to all 3 levels of school (might as well say all 5 levels of school if you include uni/community college and preschool which are a part of our pre-k through 12 education in our county). 

In addition, we have a choice of a wide variety of schools at each level.  They aren't all on top of each other.  So when I want my kid to attend the better school(s), they are sometimes across town.  How does urban planning even play a role in which schools we choose to send our kids to based on the individual talents and needs of each kid (which differ from kid to kid obviously). 

Hey, I like Utopias too and feel fortunate to have found one at least while our kids are in elementary school (we sometimes drive only 1-2x/wk and that's for a grocery run or visiting friends across town).

[cchrissyy]

I just remembered for a year, 3rd or 4th grade, my autistic kid was transported by taxi every day after school, because he was the only kid on that special ed transportation route after school and the district decided it was more cost effective to contract with a taxi company than to use one of their busses. 

[elaine amj]

To all the people who bashed on the above comment, I hope you kept your mind open enough to get the good part of what was said. Here on MMM, it often said that people must take control of their lives and stop blaming circumstances (or other people) for their problems. While it is true that there are many families where both parents reasonably need to work (or single parent families), it is also true that many people make decisions about their life independently from other decisions (e.g. highest paid job but with no time for family).

For example, why is it unreasonable to expect somebody to consider transport to/from the children's school when they are choosing a house? There are loads of places where children can walk or cycle to school from a young age due to the distance and safety. Other communities have good bus systems and before/after school programs. The same goes for any number of other decisions like applying for jobs.

Exactly what I was thinking. Yes I know sometimes life doesn't work the way you planned. There are always exceptions. But a big part of why I am on MMM is to learn to consider all possibilities and not just focus on all the reasons I cannot do something. We all have choices and make them every day.

After all, FIRE is a pretty radical concept and most folks will sooner spend hours and hours pointing out why it is impossible.

But we are all here because we see the impossible as something possible.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Shane]

What happened to riding your bike home?

In some locales, that's actually illegal now.

Huh? What silliness is this? Do you have a reference for this? I think I am in the mood to marvel at some insanity today.

Here you go....

http://bikeportland.org/2009/08/19/national-organization-finds-that-bike-to-school-bans-are-on-the-rise-22560



Here you go.

http://bikeportland.org/2009/08/19/national-organization-finds-that-bike-to-school-bans-are-on-the-rise-22560

When I ~10 years old I got called in to the principal's office because I had ridden my bike to school that day and someone had seen me lock it outside. The principal called my parents and told them it was against the rules for children to ride their bikes to school. He said it was because of liability concerns. Strangely, the school had no problems with students' walking back and forth. It was just riding a bike that they were concerned about...

[RootofGood]

When I ~10 years old I got called in to the principal's office because I had ridden my bike to school that day and someone had seen me lock it outside. The principal called my parents and told them it was against the rules for children to ride their bikes to school. He said it was because of liability concerns. Strangely, the school had no problems with students' walking back and forth. It was just riding a bike that they were concerned about...

That's just crazy.  I'd tell my kids to leave their bikes locked up just off the school premises if biking were banned suddenly.  It's unlikely to happen since I think my kids are literally the only ones that ever bike to school and we don't do it every day.  The bike rack goes mostly unused.  Even the teachers that live within easy walking distance will drive the 0.2-0.3 miles to school (then drive across town to yoga class after school :) ). 

[Pigeon]

Thanks for all of the replies...

To the person who said she can not pick up her kids because she works and thought it was a joke of me asking...

No it was not a joke.  I guess my wife and I planned our kids and their schedules and life changes to a more precise degree then most.  If you can not take and pick up your kids to their activity then don't sign them up for the activity.  School times really do not change that much.  Plan your careers and commute around the need to supervise your kids.  Honestly, we put off kids for a couple of years because we were not in a position for one of us (me) to have a flexible job.  Your children deserve all the time they can get from their parents.  Plan accordingly if at all possible.

Hahahahahaha, are you seriously teaching children?  That may be one of the more sanctimonious, out of touch posts I've ever read.  This is why many people hate teachers and think they are under worked and over paid.  My husband is a public school teacher, and I don't share that opinion, but you give teachers a bad name with that type of thinking.

Yes, this just in, in the real world, most people cannot leave the office until at least 5 pm.

I wouldn't use Uber for my kids if I had another option, but I can see why people do.  Biking is not an option where I live.  The school is many miles from home, on a mix dark, curvy roads with no shoulder at all, and very heavily trafficked roads that I would never let my kids bike on.  Fortunately, our school has activity buses.  There are a few activities that run later than the last activity bus, and we are very, very lucky that as a teacher, dh is able to pick them up, but we understand that is  privilege most hard working people trying to support their families just do not have.

[MerryMcQ]

The school district we are in has 3 different start and end times for schools. High school & Junior High starts first, at 7:00 am, and is out at 2 pm. Elementary is next, with an 8 am start. Then intermediate (5 - 7th grades), which start at 8:45 and get out at 3:15 pm. Oh, and every other Wednesday, the schools all get out between 2 to 3 hours early (end times change). Oh, and if you want some AP classes or performance classes, your high schooler will start at 6:15 am. So if a working parent has a 4th, 6th, & 9th grader, they will have to be walking/biking/driving to schools from 6 am - 9 am. Picking up from 2 pm - 3:15 pm. So, good luck trying to find a flexible job with asking for those hours off!

Those were not the school hours in place when my daughter was born 14 years ago. Strange, the school district changes things up!

I would like to point out that when I was thinking about having a baby, I didn't realize how much schools changed schedules. Or how different school districts were. Or that I might move. Or that I might have a non-flexible job, or be able to be a full time parent, or be unable to drive due to a disability. Geez, who really knows exactly what their life will be like in 14 years!?!

[markbrynn]

Is it really common to have elementary, middle, and high schools all within range of walk/bike or easy transit?  Would that make for good urban planning?  Without Manhattan-like density and Manhattan-like public transit options, I don't think it's especially feasible for all (or most) residents of a community to have walk, bike, or transit access to all 3 levels of school (might as well say all 5 levels of school if you include uni/community college and preschool which are a part of our pre-k through 12 education in our county). 

In addition, we have a choice of a wide variety of schools at each level.  They aren't all on top of each other.  So when I want my kid to attend the better school(s), they are sometimes across town.  How does urban planning even play a role in which schools we choose to send our kids to based on the individual talents and needs of each kid (which differ from kid to kid obviously). 

Hey, I like Utopias too and feel fortunate to have found one at least while our kids are in elementary school (we sometimes drive only 1-2x/wk and that's for a grocery run or visiting friends across town).

I think this whole subject might deserve a separate thread as it's not quite on the original topic, but I'll continue to stray here.

I think that the way communities are laid out in various parts of the US and the world are partly driven by government/developers (less within our control) and by choices of individuals (our own choice being within our control). There are many communities (much of the American suburbs) which are spread out and car-dependent, which makes all of these arguments that kids need to end up taking Uber because there aren't other options. However, there are plenty of communities where schools, housing, shops, etc. are close together. People have chosen to have large free-standing houses with yards, as opposed to living in apartment buildings or other higher density housing. It's a choice. I don't think anybody is being critical of someone's choice to live in the suburbs (or rural) and enjoying the wide open space. On the other hand, I think choosing for the space and then complaining about the downsides does open you up to criticism.

Where I live, most children will live within a mile or two of their school (from K-12) and will walk/cycle with parents until they are old enough to walk/cycle with friends and eventually alone. Cycling is safe because there is a strong cycling culture and laws and infrastructure to back it up. People can also live pretty easily without a car if they choose. On the other hand, almost nobody can afford to live in a free standing house and most housing that's affordable is less than 1500 ft2.

Life is full of trade offs.

[mm1970]

The school district we are in has 3 different start and end times for schools. High school & Junior High starts first, at 7:00 am, and is out at 2 pm. Elementary is next, with an 8 am start. Then intermediate (5 - 7th grades), which start at 8:45 and get out at 3:15 pm. Oh, and every other Wednesday, the schools all get out between 2 to 3 hours early (end times change). Oh, and if you want some AP classes or performance classes, your high schooler will start at 6:15 am. So if a working parent has a 4th, 6th, & 9th grader, they will have to be walking/biking/driving to schools from 6 am - 9 am. Picking up from 2 pm - 3:15 pm. So, good luck trying to find a flexible job with asking for those hours off!

Those were not the school hours in place when my daughter was born 14 years ago. Strange, the school district changes things up!

I would like to point out that when I was thinking about having a baby, I didn't realize how much schools changed schedules. Or how different school districts were. Or that I might move. Or that I might have a non-flexible job, or be able to be a full time parent, or be unable to drive due to a disability. Geez, who really knows exactly what their life will be like in 14 years!?!

Don't even get me started.  2 years ago they changed the yearly schedule too...instead of starting on a Tuesday, ending on a Thursday, and having 3 days off at Thanksgiving - they now start and end on Weds and take a full week off for Thanksgiving.

"Fuck you parents!"  There are NO two-day camps for the first and last weeks of school, and now you have to take off a full week at Thanksgiving...that's an extra FOUR DAYS of vacation parents have to take off to cover a stupid-ass schedule.

[cavewoman]

One of my many part time jobs in college was a nanny/transport mix. Two teachers, divorced, no one to get their kids ready and to school and daycare. I showed up at 530 every morning and does them off by 730. I had another family that needed after school care: meet the bus and hang out until 5 or so. The families were friends and sometimes combined for care. My roommate and I split the schedules for after school so we could take classes. It was a pretty sweet gig and something I'd definitely look into after retirement.

The 6 year old would make everyone pancakes or eggs in the morning. The parents always made extra coffee for me. I don't get perks like that anymore!

[Shane]

When I ~10 years old I got called in to the principal's office because I had ridden my bike to school that day and someone had seen me lock it outside. The principal called my parents and told them it was against the rules for children to ride their bikes to school. He said it was because of liability concerns. Strangely, the school had no problems with students' walking back and forth. It was just riding a bike that they were concerned about...

That's just crazy.  I'd tell my kids to leave their bikes locked up just off the school premises if biking were banned suddenly.  It's unlikely to happen since I think my kids are literally the only ones that ever bike to school and we don't do it every day.  The bike rack goes mostly unused.  Even the teachers that live within easy walking distance will drive the 0.2-0.3 miles to school (then drive across town to yoga class after school :) ).

When my wife was working at an elementary school one of her coworkers who lived right across the street used to get into her car every morning, drive across the busy street and then spend several minutes driving around the school parking lot to find a parking space before walking into school to start work. By driving she saved herself walking maybe 100 yards at the most...

[BeanCounter]

One of my many part time jobs in college was a nanny/transport mix. Two teachers, divorced, no one to get their kids ready and to school and daycare. I showed up at 530 every morning and does them off by 730. I had another family that needed after school care: meet the bus and hang out until 5 or so. The families were friends and sometimes combined for care. My roommate and I split the schedules for after school so we could take classes. It was a pretty sweet gig and something I'd definitely look into after retirement.

The 6 year old would make everyone pancakes or eggs in the morning. The parents always made extra coffee for me. I don't get perks like that anymore!

I am currently seeking an evening care giver such as this. Get my kids off the bus at 3 and/or to any activities, do homework with them and MAYBE put some dinner that I've put together in the oven and help the kids set the table and do chores.
I'm sorry, I love my kids and I do love spending time with them, but I don't want to quit my career just to facilitate the above. I can pay for that. And then when I get home we can eat together and spend time together.
Or at least that's my dream.

[BeanCounter]

The school district we are in has 3 different start and end times for schools. High school & Junior High starts first, at 7:00 am, and is out at 2 pm. Elementary is next, with an 8 am start. Then intermediate (5 - 7th grades), which start at 8:45 and get out at 3:15 pm. Oh, and every other Wednesday, the schools all get out between 2 to 3 hours early (end times change). Oh, and if you want some AP classes or performance classes, your high schooler will start at 6:15 am. So if a working parent has a 4th, 6th, & 9th grader, they will have to be walking/biking/driving to schools from 6 am - 9 am. Picking up from 2 pm - 3:15 pm. So, good luck trying to find a flexible job with asking for those hours off!

Those were not the school hours in place when my daughter was born 14 years ago. Strange, the school district changes things up!

I would like to point out that when I was thinking about having a baby, I didn't realize how much schools changed schedules. Or how different school districts were. Or that I might move. Or that I might have a non-flexible job, or be able to be a full time parent, or be unable to drive due to a disability. Geez, who really knows exactly what their life will be like in 14 years!?!

Don't even get me started.  2 years ago they changed the yearly schedule too...instead of starting on a Tuesday, ending on a Thursday, and having 3 days off at Thanksgiving - they now start and end on Weds and take a full week off for Thanksgiving.

"Fuck you parents!"  There are NO two-day camps for the first and last weeks of school, and now you have to take off a full week at Thanksgiving...that's an extra FOUR DAYS of vacation parents have to take off to cover a stupid-ass schedule.

Exactly. A great example of how the school scheduling doesn't try and help out the families in any way. And it ends up hurting the kids, because the kids that have parents who can't take off or work from home those days have to make other plans. And sometimes those plans aren't always ideal.

[justajane]

I don't know if I would describe where I live as a "utopia", since kids can by and large walk to all of the schools in the district, but it is pretty nice. Mind you, not every family avails themselves of this great set-up. A lot of people still drive. 

I live in a small 1920s "suburb" in a major metro area. Some of the other districts around here are not as walkable, even if the houses are of the same vintage, in large part because of the size of the city. So maybe this is just an anomaly that I was lucky enough to fall into. When we bought this house, we didn't even have kids. We are about 1.2 miles from the Early Childhood Center (Pre-K-1), .4 miles from the elementary (2-6) and a little less than a mile from the combined middle school/high school. We are only eligible for the bus for the ECC.

I can understand using Uber for after-school activities, especially after reading about the experiences and realities of people on here. Thanks for expanding my perspective! What I don't understand is families who don't use the bus, unless the reason they don't use the bus is because they are already in the car on the way to work. I have actually met some families who don't use the bus because they are worried about unpleasant social interaction. That's a bizarre reason for me. Sure, if your kid starts to be bullied on the bus, by all means, pull back. But don't assume the worst.

[Chris22]

I think this whole subject might deserve a separate thread as it's not quite on the original topic, but I'll continue to stray here.

I think that the way communities are laid out in various parts of the US and the world are partly driven by government/developers (less within our control) and by choices of individuals (our own choice being within our control). There are many communities (much of the American suburbs) which are spread out and car-dependent, which makes all of these arguments that kids need to end up taking Uber because there aren't other options. However, there are plenty of communities where schools, housing, shops, etc. are close together. People have chosen to have large free-standing houses with yards, as opposed to living in apartment buildings or other higher density housing. It's a choice. I don't think anybody is being critical of someone's choice to live in the suburbs (or rural) and enjoying the wide open space. On the other hand, I think choosing for the space and then complaining about the downsides does open you up to criticism.

There's also just simple geography.  I grew up in suburban/semi-rural New England.  The roads there are largely based on old Native American footpaths, deer trails, farming boundries, whatever.  They look like spaghetti thrown on a table.  Riding a bike after dark on a windy, unlit 30mph-marked road the locals bomb down at 45+ is insanity.  And that was the only way to get to/from my high school.  If all you ever knew is the big grid that is a midwestern or later coastal planned city, you maybe can't visualize that not everyone lives that way, and it isn't by choice.  It's just how it is. 

Here's the only pic I could find, and it's of a straighter section.  You want to bike that in the dark, knock yourself out.

[Pigeon]

In the general area where I live, there is more and more pressure being placed on school districts to consolidate and move to having gigantic regional high schools and junior highs, with each district eating up smaller districts.  Students come from much further away, and a 40 minute to an hour bus trip is not uncommon in some areas.  The state sees economies of scale and is not so much concerned about the needs of the individual family, transportation or other.

[Exhale]

I'm hoping we are eventually able to find a house close enough to an elementary school that I could maybe provide before/after school care for a few kids. 

I like your idea lhamo. However, my approach would probably be to go to the nearby school and volunteer (that way there's no need to license my home, etc.).

As to the OP's question: I think it'd wonderful if there were safe and affordable ways to transport our kids. And it doesn't have to be parents all of the time. Kids benefit from having a range of safe and caring people in their life.

[RootofGood]

I like your idea lhamo. However, my approach would probably be to go to the nearby school and volunteer (that way there's no need to license my home, etc.).

We end up doing this occasionally for the kids' friends.  Instead of the parents paying for afterschool care or a single day of daycare (something like $50 for 1 day or $125 for 2+ days during the week), we'll offer to have their kids over after school to play on school vacation days or those days that school only runs half a day.  We don't charge anything and usually feed the kids too.  We have been paid once (a six pack of fancy beers and 2 bottles of wine) but otherwise no $ changed hands. 

We don't mind at all, and it's part of the reason for FIRE - to help out friends in small ways.  I'm sure I could turn this into a business but don't want it to become an obligation and encroach on my freedom to do whatever the hell I want to do whenever I want to do it.